The Case for Mike Fontenot and Ronny Cedeno
I've recently argued that the Cubs should be willing to risk losing a few games to sit veteran hitters and get them fresh and well rested for October. What's astounding to look at is how sitting some of our veterans at the right time, may actually even give us a better chance of winning that very game. What I mean is that in certain circumstances, putting in Mike Fontenot and Ronny Cedeno is actually a better lineup than our regular lineup.

Consider the following stats (season numbers as of last week), our hitters against RHP:
Mike Fontenot .296/.379/.531
Mark DeRosa .278/.370/.478
Derrek Lee .282/.339/.438
Alfonso Soriano .245/.300/.444
Mike Fontenot has actually been our second-best hitter v. RHP. As we head into September, it would be nice to see him playing 3/5 games where RHP start, with DeRosa resting or moving to rest Soriano, Lee, and Ramirez. It's really only in the latter situation that you lose a bat by playing Fontenot. Now, consider this, too:
Ronny Cedeno .282/.356/.385
Ryan Theriot .319/.385/.372
The difference between Theriot and Cedeno v. RHP is slimmer than most expect when you only consider their hitting. Theriot's the starting SS, and I'm not trying to re-open the Cedeno-Theriot debate. Rather my point is that Theriot has a history of back problems and when you consider that he's hitting under .200 this week (against Pittsburgh, whom he usually punishes), rest is a good idea.
What's more, giving regular playing time to Fontenot and Cedeno can give us a better idea of what we have in these guys and consider what their roles may be on the 2009 team.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Co-own a hot dog stand?
Just kidding.
Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...
by N Oakley on
Aug 28, 2008 1:05 PM CDT
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Got to say, I think they are bench players.
Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...
by N Oakley on
Aug 28, 2008 1:06 PM CDT
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I was sure Fontenot was nothing more than a bench player going into the season.
But he is hitting so well and I don’t think, as best I can looking at the stats, that he’s just getting lucky. I’d really like to see what he does with more playing time.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on
Aug 28, 2008 1:09 PM CDT
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One at a time
Cedeno – every time I believe he’s earned time, it seems he makes a bone headed play. Bunting to first this week on the sacrifice. He’s decent defensively, but what else does he bring?
Fontenot – Having not seen him play every day, I can’t tell. He can hit and is quick on the bases, but I still dismiss him mostly as being put by his manager in positions where he can succeed. I could be wrong.
Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...
by N Oakley on
Aug 28, 2008 1:18 PM CDT
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I thought Fonty was getting the positive spot-starts
but then I looked closer at his splits.
He’s getting PAs against every kind of pitcher. Now he’s not hitting fly ball pitchers that well this year, but he’s not being sit against them.
As for Cedeno, his “bone headed plays” are overblown. I used to expect them, but came to realize he had cut down on those. Sure the bunt to 1B wasn’t the best, but we’ve seen other guys blow bunts all season long. Cedeno’s are the only ones people remember. As for what he brings? Most teams would love to have a SS with an OBP over .350, with modest power potential and whose glove isn’t a liability. He’s not A-Rod and won’t ever be, but his triple slash stats against RHP are better than Jeter’s and Michael Young’s this year.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on
Aug 28, 2008 1:33 PM CDT
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Fonty – he streaked for a while last year and slowly came back down to earth. I like the guy, though all we have in common is height and hat. He’s fast as all hell and I was slow when I was fast.
Cedeno – I don’t see it. He’s no leader and is uninspiring at the plate. With new regular time, would he be successful. Dunno. I’ve been wrong before. See Edmonds, Jim.
Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...
by N Oakley on
Aug 28, 2008 2:02 PM CDT
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Right, but again...
…Jeter has 560 PAs and Michael Young has 594. (Plus, Michael Young’s not having all that great a year. His OPS+ is a touch below league average at 99.) Cedeno has 185.
Yes, sir!
by dat cubfan daver on
Aug 28, 2008 2:15 PM CDT
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I'm growing weary of
agreeing with you. Lack of conflict is boring.
Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...
by N Oakley on
Aug 28, 2008 2:31 PM CDT
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Well, judging by your sig line...
…I can’t disagree with you about music either. What are your thoughts on global warming?
Yes, sir!
by dat cubfan daver on
Aug 28, 2008 2:33 PM CDT
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Have lots of thoughts on
Global warming and religion. However, both are too close to politics for a Cub site.
Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...
by N Oakley on
Aug 28, 2008 2:37 PM CDT
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Myth
I have seen zero evidence of Fontenot being particularly fast. Just because a guy is short doesnt make him quick.
Reed Ballgame - best CF in the MLB
by californiachicagoan on
Aug 28, 2008 2:49 PM CDT
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I haven't timed him, but he
looks real fast, both in person and on TV on the basepaths. He motors from 1st to third.
Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...
by N Oakley on
Aug 28, 2008 2:53 PM CDT
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure he went from first to third...
…in one of the previous two games. (It’s all a blur of sweet victory.) And he definitely didn’t appear slow – he was into third base easily.
Yes, sir!
by dat cubfan daver on
Aug 28, 2008 2:57 PM CDT
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I know slow, and Mr. Daver, Mike Fonentot is
no slow.
Disposable dixie cup drinkin... I'm hiding out in the big city blinking...
by N Oakley on
Aug 28, 2008 3:03 PM CDT
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It is these type
of players that championships are won. I am sure they both feel they deserve to play everyday, and they might have a point. However, IMO I prefer the Theriot and DeRosa combo better.
Now if the Cubs were losing, they would have more of an argument to start and we as fans would be able to have this discussion with more vigor.\
Go Cubs.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on
Aug 28, 2008 1:11 PM CDT
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Again, I'm not arguing Fonty and Ronny should become starters in 2008.
I don’t want to start that. I’m arguing that giving rest to the starters and getting these guys in there regularly will help our team in many ways without hurting us at all in the day-to-day game. I hope this is clear before a slobberknocker gets started: I am not arguing Cedeno or Fontenot should be the regular starters over DeRosa, Theriot, or anyone else.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on
Aug 28, 2008 1:16 PM CDT
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Understand
I am sure if the Cubs were around .500, the players themselves would want to start, I guess I should of made that clearer. Lou has done a good job rotating these players.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on
Aug 28, 2008 1:20 PM CDT
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I think Lou has done...
..a decent job of resting guys from the beginning. Again, I would not choose to change anything in regards to Lou’s current schedule of spot resting guys unitl you clinch. Then, you can give them a little more time.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on
Aug 28, 2008 1:16 PM CDT
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I know you want to keep the players' rhythm
and so do I. Do you really think resting one every 5-7 games would hurt the rhythm of Soriano, Lee, Ramirez, DeRosa, and Dome? And in 4/5 of those cases, playing Fontenot actually could help the Cubs clinch sooner.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on
Aug 28, 2008 1:59 PM CDT
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using them to rest the starters
is a no-brainer as far as I’m concerned.
I think, however, given the chance, Ronny will trend up and Fonty would trend down over a long period of time. I think Ronny is a future starter and Fonty isn’t.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on
Aug 28, 2008 1:21 PM CDT
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Aren't there some sample size issues in play here?
Fontenot: 199 ABs
Cedeno: 169 ABs
DeRosa: 429 ABs
Lee: 525 ABs
Soriano: 354 ABs
Ryan Theriot: 488 ABs
I’m no sabermagician, so I’m not sure how significant the differences in number of ABs are, but I feel the need to bring them up anyway. I do agree that Fontenot and Cedeno’s strong play should be recognized – especially Fontenot’s (man, he’s gotta sweet swing). But I guess the main reason I’d hesitate to rest the starters too much is:
a) Even a six game lead in the standings can disappear awfully quickly, particularly if momentum is lost (if you believe in that sorta thing), and
b) Would the Cubs want to risk a DLee or a Soriano or even a Theriot going into the postseason cold or at least out of their “offensive rhythm”? As we know from last season, a best-of-five playoff series can evaporate very quickly when the big guys don’t hit.
I guess my question for you would be: How soon are you suggesting Lou start resting guys in favor of LBR and Onedec?
Yes, sir!
by dat cubfan daver on
Aug 28, 2008 1:59 PM CDT
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Why'd you abbreviate his name LBR?
"Yes it's true. Everyone knows that I've pitched. I make sure of that. I have nine different pitches, all of which are awesome. I have a 0.00 ERA, got one out, throwing all knuckleballs. I don't remember who I faced -- some dude from Ole Miss." - Ryan Theriot
by NittanyCub on
Aug 28, 2008 2:02 PM CDT
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Little Babe Ruth
His nickname courtesy of Ron Santo.
Yes, sir!
by dat cubfan daver on
Aug 28, 2008 2:03 PM CDT
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LBR=Little Babe Ruth
santo
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
by IowaCubs- on
Aug 28, 2008 2:03 PM CDT
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I'd have to regress both the the mean...
…along with figuring in past year’s performance.
The main thing to look at with Fontenot is:
PAs versus RHP – 209
PAs versus LHP – 21
He’s being used as a platoon player and it’s padding his stats. I have a good idea of how I’d translate his performance into a full-time player’s (its more complicated than you’d probably thing) but it’s a pain in the rear to do.
by cwyers on
Aug 28, 2008 2:07 PM CDT
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Thanks!
I just think his PAs should at least enter the conversation. And his vastly higher number of PAs against RHP just goes to show why it’s important to look at the numbers, because (based on my feeble memory alone) I would have guessed that he’d faced LHP at least a little bit more than that.
Yes, sir!
by dat cubfan daver on
Aug 28, 2008 2:11 PM CDT
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He's only "padding his stats"
if you wanted to play him full-time. The question is: “Should Mike Fontenot be considered a strong-side platoon starter in 2009?” That’s where his limited ABs really do come into play. I’d be a lot more comfortable saying, “Yes” to that if he had 300 PA v. RHP than 200.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on
Aug 28, 2008 3:10 PM CDT
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Who would Fontenot platoon with next year?
Yes, sir!
by dat cubfan daver on
Aug 28, 2008 3:16 PM CDT
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Well, we have someone on roster who'd be perfect for the job.
Although, I’m afraid to say his name. Let’s just leave it at saying that finding a right-handed middle IF backup isn’t too hard.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on
Aug 28, 2008 4:34 PM CDT
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Agreed
Finding the Fontenot part of the platoon for MI is the tough part; most platoons in the middle infield are awful and a best of the worst scenario. I guess since the standard of hitting is lower, anyone that solid against RHP would generally just be a starter. However, the unfortunate part of the proposed platoon, which would be awesome and probably be at elite-player production…is that it can only REALLY play 2B. I’d be all for putting the Tigers at SS though as I bet that -20 defensively would be made up for by the offensive #s. I mean the D might be a little bit worse (which is saying something) but there’s not too far it could possibly fall.
But yeah, at 2B….well we have DeRosa for next year. And he’s stepped it up so much, you have to be excited about another good year from him (even though he’s 33 it seems like a young 33). I would consider putting him out there in the offseason just to test the waters though, see how much of his added offense is reflected in the trade market. If teams expect him to perform somewhere between 07 and 08, he could be a fairly valuable piece, no?
by Canseco's Roid Party on
Aug 28, 2008 6:18 PM CDT
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Valuable trade pieces
DeRosa is, of course, too good to sit, although Fontenot has hit better than DeRosa v. RHP. DeRosa would have a lot of trade value, especially, I think, for a team like the Indians who have questions at 3B and 2B, but also potential answers at both positions, too.
If you really wanted to start Fontenot, the other option is to trade one of Lee or Ramirez, with DeRosa taking 3B and whomever is left at 1B.
No one would want to trade any of those guys just to trade them, so the question is all about what you’re getting back in the trade.
But here’s where it gets simple – if Mike Fontenot plays regularly in this last month and solidifies his awesome season numbers with more playing time, he could be traded, and potentially for something significantly valuable. That’s the thing about playing both Fonty and Cedeno – even if you don’t want them to be our starters, if you give them the playing time and they prove they could be starters, we’ve suddenly got two more nice trade chips.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on
Aug 28, 2008 6:35 PM CDT
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I wouldn't mind seeing time given to Fontenot and Cedeno
especially considering the fact that Cedeno is a stud at SS; as in, he plays the position much better than Theriot.
"Yes it's true. Everyone knows that I've pitched. I make sure of that. I have nine different pitches, all of which are awesome. I have a 0.00 ERA, got one out, throwing all knuckleballs. I don't remember who I faced -- some dude from Ole Miss." - Ryan Theriot
by NittanyCub on
Aug 28, 2008 2:01 PM CDT
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I'd like to reach a 10 game lead or so...
…before we consider resting our regular guys. Seeing that this is probably not going to happen, let’s stick with the current situation of rotating them in there for every 5th or 6th game, or on days when the day game follows a night game as is currently the case. We are not a playoff team until we clinch the playoffs.
Also, I agree that with daily playing time, the league would catch up to LBR and Cedeno’s numbers.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
by IowaCubs- on
Aug 28, 2008 2:02 PM CDT
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The Cubs have a 10 game lead (give or take) on the Wild Card.
We don’t know what the league would do to our two backup middle IFs with more playing time and figuring it out could increase their value quite a bit. Cedeno, for one, seems to play better this year on consecutive starts.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on
Aug 28, 2008 3:13 PM CDT
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baseball is a funny game
While we all love to get excited about october, we have not clinched anything yet excpet a great 130 plus games.
we have a very difficult schedule ahead and as the mets, phils and rockies showed us last year it can all turn very quickly.
I dont think you can look ahead to resting anyone until you are in, unless its normal rest that they would have received anyway. Baseball is not a game you can just turn it on at any given time and decide today i will hit well and take tomorrow off.
Once you clinch then you can start to line them up. We have a 6 game lead, you have to bury them when you get a chance not see if we can just coast on in.
Let go cubs
by cubsfaninkc on
Aug 28, 2008 2:29 PM CDT
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If the goal is to bury them
then all the more reason to play the players who have better numbers v. RHP.
If the goal is to win in October, then all the more reason to rest your horses a bit.
If the goal is to win over the next three years, then you want to play your young players with promise.
Seems like we’ve entered a situation where all three goals align and tell us: PLAY FONTENOT AND CEDENO.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on
Aug 28, 2008 3:16 PM CDT
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Mike Fontenot has a future because of his quality left-handed bat
Is he starter material? No, not with defensive shortcomings and lack of versatility. But he can be a solid guy coming off the bench grabbing starts and pinch hitting.
Ronny Cedeno? Is he starter material? No. But he can carve out a quality future as a major league utility man. His value will be enhanced if he can learn how to play a little 3rd base.
by MDBNIU on
Aug 28, 2008 11:52 PM CDT
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I thought tat this was a fun way to bring back an old topic from earlier this season...
…nice post. Unfortunately we fans may sometimes view success for a player as defined by being a starter. Something similar happens frequently in women’s sports where the dominant athlete is defined by whether they can compete with men. However, it’s a more logical conclusion to make for bench players. Cedeno and Fotenot are having great seasons, making contributions, but I don’t se either as more than a bench player—but that’s still good because they can be very productive in that role.
by DudeVf11 on
Aug 29, 2008 9:58 AM CDT
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