Rich Hill Update
by Cubskingdom on Aug 5, 2008 10:47 PM CDT
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PrintI just pulled this off of www.chicagosports.com
Left-hander Rich Hill was placed on the disabled list with back spasms for a second time this summer. It is possible Hill won't pitch the final month of the minor-league season.
Not that we were counting on him for the stretch run, but not the way I expected this year to go for him.
His back issues sound chronic now. What gives? I thought his changes delivery was meant to correct his back issues.
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This should effectively end his what would have been "breakout" year
He had such a high ceiling now we have no clue what to do with him. I guess we have to see how he does in Spring Training next season. Same goes for Pie as well
2008 Cubs: Who needs nine innings, when you only need a 7th?
Pie is still hitting well down there, right?
Hopefully he’ll get some confidence and have a better feel next year
by chitownhawkeye on Aug 6, 2008 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah, but...
it depends on what happens during the offseason. if we bring back johnson, edmonds, or get a new free-agent CF, i don’t think we’ll be seeing much of him.
Edmonds is signed through next year
This is Reed’s last year.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 6, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Nevermind my mistake
This both of their last years.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 6, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
He still has a high ceiling...
As long as he’s on the 40-man roster, there’s no reason not to give him a look in spring training. We all know what he’s capable of when he’s right. Clearly, he’s not right at the moment. Hopefully taking the winter off will get him right again.
I put the quote in a quotebox.
Also—if you do this, try to put a direct link to the article you got this from. You can do this with the icons in the posting box.
Thanks. That makes it easier to read the original article and to see what you wrote and what the writer of the article wrote.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Will do
Got it, thanks Al.
Good Guys Wear Blue
Harsher
Hard to quibble with the statement. Rich Hill will be 29 years old next season and is, suffice to say, a mental and physical wreck. The chances are stronger than not that his major league future is in critical jeopardy.
Damn he sould have brought a lot in a trade a year ago!
To quote the great Doc Brown…”Double Damn!”
Calm down.
Overstated to the point of inaccuracy, as usual.
None of us can state definitively whether Rich Hill is a “mental wreck.” Clearly, he’s had some persistent back problems throughout the year that have inhibited his mechanics, probably hurt his confidence and, now, more than likely effectively ended his season.
None of that means he won’t be able to recover from these back problems, perhaps get on some sort of training regimen to avoid them in the future and return to some sort of productive form next year. Will he be the ace we all hoped he’d be? Maybe not. But it looks to me like he’s busted his ass to try to pull himself together and it just hasn’t happened for him. That doesn’t mean it won’t.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
It's simple with Hill...
...he has shown he can dominate teams when he has command of his pitches. The problem is, he hasn’t had that command consistantly since sometime in 07.
The difference between a good major league pitcher and a mediocre one, is the good one can win without his best stuff. They figure out ways to battle with what they have and they don’t have their confidence crater. IMO, Hill has a fragile confidence level, that causes him to have the lug nuts come loose far too quickly. It’s too bad, because the guy has a great curve ball and his fastball is good enouph for him to win 15+ games if he held it together.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Totally agree.
But with experience comes confidence. If he’d been able to stay healthy this year, he may very well have been able to work through his mental issues and take his performance to the next level. Unfortunately, his body ain’t cooperating.
It’s virtually impossible for any of us to definitively say what percentage of Hill’s current problem is mental and what percentage is physical. So I’m choosing to believe that his back problems are really the source of his struggles. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have “mental issues” – don’t we all. But I think a pitcher who has accomplished the kind of major league success that Rich has can do it again. But it all must start with his physical comfort level.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
We'll never know...
...whether it is the chicken or the egg, but I am basing the confidence issue on what I observed from him in 07. Just looking at his body language and how he would lose command quickly, leads me to believe he hasn’t figured out how to respond when things don’t go his way.
I could be completely wrong, but I tend to think his adjustments need to be between the ears, and when and if that happens, the physical stuff will fall in place.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Throwing the curveball is a bitch
Not a lot of guys who have thrown it consistently and successfully as THE pitch in their repetoire. Which makes the achievements of Sandy Koufax, Steve Carlton and Bert Blyleven all the more impressive.
My personal opinion is that the back problems are not the primary culprit here. Rich Hill may not be 100% healthy but I’ll bet the ranch that is not main causation for his demise over the past year.
Curveball
A curveball is not really a difficult pitch to throw unless you have bad mechanics. Maybe you can expand on your assertion.
As for his “back problems,” well, I have my doubts as to whether or not he’s really injured, or the extent to which he is injured. It’s pretty easy to say he’s doing poorly as a result of back problems, as opposed to he’s a mental/mechanical wreck and can’t throw the ball over the plate.
by dr stabbingworth on Aug 6, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Most baseball people agree...
...the 12-6 curve ball is a difficult pitch to drop in the strikezone, because of how it moves. It also is a more difficult pitch for an umpire to get a bead on and be able to call correctly.
Up until the 70’s, most pitchers threw a 12-6 curve as their breaking pitch. When the mound was lowered, it made the pitch a little more difficult to master and for that reason, most pitchers started to go with a slider or slurve.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Doesn't matter what some of us think...
Can’t convince those who will now say, “well there you go, Rich Hill has a back problem and that’s why he isn’t performing.” A nice tidy excuse for those who evaluate certain Cub ballplayers (and the manager) via narrow lens (e.g., Felix Pie, now Scott Eyre). They’re geniuses and Lou Piniella is a dumb ass.
I don't mind addressing...
...the back issue, but I can’t recall (maybe I’m wrong) his big falloff last year being related to a bad back.
He very well may be hurt now, but I still see his problem as being one of not being able to command his pitches even when he was healthy. If he was hurt last year, it was kept awfully quite.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
How is saying...
...he’s a “mental wreck” any less “tidy” than saying his back problems are the reason he isn’t performing? You have no insider knowledge of this situation, so don’t pretend that you do. I never said I was a genius and I never said Lou Piniella is a dumb ass. Stop putting words in my mouth and putting up strawmen to defend your anemic, shallow arguments.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
overgeneralizing
again.
You know it is possible to say “Lou is a good manager, but I disagree with these particular moves”. Maybe it’s not possible for you, but it’s possible for people who, you know, have some baseball knowledge.
’’If somebody had told me we were going to lose Soriano for eight weeks, lose [Carlos] Zambrano and Kerry Wood for a couple of weeks apiece, and then at the same time lose [Reed] Johnson, and then when we played the American League not have a DH [then-injured Daryle Ward], and be in first place by two games, I’d tell you we were pretty fortunate.’’ Lou Piniella (7/23/08)
by drewishdrewid on Aug 7, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
It's impossible when you deal in absolutes
When you realize that there are gray areas and everything isn’t black and white, the world is a much different place.
Gotcha
I agree, command of the pitch is difficult. I was trying to differentiate between the grip + throwing with good break vs. command; i.e., it’s not hard to throw, but it’s hard to throw for strikes.
by dr stabbingworth on Aug 6, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Irony
“Rich Hill will be 29 years old next season and is, suffice to say, a mental and physical wreck. “
Hmm, interesting. So how long has your back been hurting MBDNIU? That would explain why you’re a mental wreck .... Grab some Doans and take the rest of the day off dude.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Aug 7, 2008 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Correct...
...that 12-6 hook can be a difficult one to command and is also the toughest breaking ball to hit.
This is why it was important for Hill to develop a change, because he could fall back on that when his hook is not getting over. His fastball is good enouph to create doubt in a hitter’s mind, but he just completely disinegrates when things get tough.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Random question
Who has had more quality starts as a Cub?
Jason Marquis or Rich Hill?
Marquis...
If you count only the past two years (since Marquis didn’t pitch for the Cubs prior to 2007), Marquis has 24 quality starts and Hill has 18. This year, Marquis has 9 to Hill’s 1.
If you are talking about career as a Cub, Hill has 26, with 8 in 2006. Marquis had 13 in 2006 with the Cards.
Bad back = bad control
Having back problems myself and active in sports, I can tell you that even if the pain is tolerable (which it often is), your range of motion is still affected. I suspect Rich’s control problems may be in part due to his inabiility to consistantly finish pitches. Some rest and an off-season of yoga may help him return to form next year. He’ll have to prove himself with a couple of strong months in the minors next season to get consideration for a job with the big club. That is, if he doesn’t wind up getting surgery.
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