Cuban at K.W.'s Celebrity Bowl?

by troutfishin on Aug 6, 2008 1:21 PM CDT Comment 83 comments

I overheard on the Score this morning that Cuban will be in attendance at Wood's Benefit tonight and Wood has acknowledged that he may be there. I'm not putting to much into this, however, if you couple this with the great write up of him over the past week, the fact that NBA Commisioner David Stern and Boston Red Sox Owner John Henry have endorsed Cuban and the realization that a number of NBA Owners are lining up to possibly form an ownership group with Cuban you have to wonder whether this closer to happening than some of you think.

Let's put it into perspective, Sam Zell is trying to get the highest dollar amount so he can attempt to keep his fledgling tribco afloat until he can turn it around or until he can piece it out. Mark Cuban has offered over $200,000,000 more than the nearest bidder and it would probably be worth it to Zell to file an anti-trust lawsuit against mlb's owners if they were to collude against the sale to Cuban. Cuban was indeed a dark horse in the beginning of this process but it looks as though he's going to come out on top.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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I'm completely ambivalent about Cuban

He seems more interested in his own glorification than anything else.

That said, if he invests in the Cubs like he did the Mavs, it couldn’t hurt.

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Aug 6, 2008 2:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree to some extent...

but I think he’d be a fine owner. My only gripe is that he has the full force of a very well paid PR operation feeding these stories to anyone who will listen. The other ownership groups aren’t as savvy as him as would be expected.

Still, I don’t think it matters too much among the current crop of finalists. I’m convinced after reading about them that any of them would be in it to make sure the Cubs win for a long time. Cuban is no exception.

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Aug 6, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes. Please. Yes.

Mark Cuban would be good for Cubs fans.

Perception is 9/10ths of the law. - Steve Young, NFL legend and multiple concussion recipient.

by Griff5479 on Aug 6, 2008 2:49 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs

Why?

Be specific.

About tonight’s event, he’s obviously supporting a charity and it IS a celebrity event and he’s a celebrity.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 6, 2008 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Off the top of my head...

He would bring a level of quantitative talent anaylsis that has been sorely lacking in the Cubs’ front office. I’ll do more research if people disagree with my memory, but I’m pretty sure he’s been a data fiend with the Mavs, and I would expect he’d be the same with the Cubs.

"Cone spelled backwards is ENOC."

by SABRCub on Aug 6, 2008 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree.

You think he’s been directing basketball operations? Or telling his people what to do? Exactly what do you mean by this?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 6, 2008 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think what SABRCub is saying is...

Cuban isn’t afraid to bring in people who use deep statistical analysis to help make personnel decisions. He doesn’t just blindly follow what scouts who “have a nose for talent” say.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 6, 2008 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK, I'll buy that.

Anyone have more details about this. I’m trying to be more open minded about Cuban, but I’d like to see more facts.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 6, 2008 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's pretty much it in a nutshell

Again, just going from memory, he hired a goodly number of econ/stat types and basically let them loose on trying to quantify team and individual success in basketball. That’s really appealing to me as a fan. I’d be interested to see what he’d do with the farm system. Given how he’s handled coaching and development with the Mavs, I’m encouraged. Before Geo, who was the last successful position player developed by the Cubs farm system?

A quick Google search revealed the following examples:

http://sonicscentral.com/statsite.html (see the Sagarin entry)

And here’s a snippet from an interview with Bill Simmons:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/051109:

Simmons: Well, how do YOU think you have affected the NBA over these past five years? Other than with that V2 sportscoat?

Cuban: I think the Mavs have had an impact on how games are evaluated using statistical analysis. How players are developed. We were ripped for having more coaches than players, but common sense said that spending $50,000 for a mentor and coach for a player we are invested in is a cheap investment. Last summer, I showed the league how the Pistons got a huge advantage vs. the Lakers because the officials were calling advantage based on player vs. player rather than team. So when Kobe got bumped on the perimeter, he had the advantage on his defender, but it was enough time for help to come and contest shots. That led to the removal of contact on the perimeter and the increase in scoring. We started tracking statistics about officials and how they were managed and that led to the league tracking and bringing in management changes for officials.

We helped spearhead changes in our TV contract, how revenue is shared, the medical evaluation of players, how in-game operations are now geared more towards being an entertainment experience, how teams sell tickets. We certainly weren’t alone. There were other organizations that for various issues shared our passion for the changes, but I think people around the league paid attention to the turn around in the business side of the Mavs and responded to it.

"Cone spelled backwards is ENOC."

by SABRCub on Aug 6, 2008 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

One more good link:

http://danrosenbaum.blogspot.com/2005/08/mea-culpa-by-mark-cuban.html

"Cone spelled backwards is ENOC."

by SABRCub on Aug 6, 2008 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look out!

oh, that’s just too bad… BlueMike just popped a vein in his forehead…

’’If somebody had told me we were going to lose Soriano for eight weeks, lose [Carlos] Zambrano and Kerry Wood for a couple of weeks apiece, and then at the same time lose [Reed] Johnson, and then when we played the American League not have a DH [then-injured Daryle Ward], and be in first place by two games, I’d tell you we were pretty fortunate.’’ Lou Piniella (7/23/08)

by drewishdrewid on Aug 6, 2008 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cuban's creating massive short positions on stocks

on the information given to him by an investigative author, who finds companies that are either in the wrong doing or whose practices simple don’t warrant the current value of their stock. I don;t really want to go into detail on this, but let’s just say that I get the impression Cuban is very resourceful when it comes to data and research.

That being said, I can imagine he would be the type of guy who would bring a different thought process to the organization.

I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008

by SackMan on Aug 6, 2008 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What the Cubs need are more resources.

The people they have are, by and large, good baseball people. But they need help. If Cuban would do that, rather than come in and fire everyone, just enhance what has become a very good baseball organization, I’d be much more open to him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 6, 2008 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What would lead you to believe that he would come in and fire everyone?

The franchise, as it stands right now, is the most successful it’s been since…well….forever almost. The farm system isn’t overflowing with talent, but it’s not bare. The fan base is bigger than ever, and financially the team isn’t in any type of trouble (until Soriano’s contract starts hurting in 5 years). I don’t see your reasoning on this.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 7, 2008 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe that's just an impression I have...

... from his flamboyant public persona. I could be wrong, maybe he recognizes good people when he sees them and gives them the support they need to succeed. If he does that, I’d be much more likely to be ni favor of him.

I’m happy to examine evidence or facts if they’re presented to me. Anyone have any specifics? The Mavericks situation isn’t directly comparable because they were the dregs of the NBA when Cuban bought them. The Cubs aren’t in that situation.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 3:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kinda tough to prove that something WON'T happen...

Looking at this objectively – and that may be difficult for both you and me – wouldn’t you say that the burden of proof rests on you to show that he would come in and fire everyone?

I’m not denying you your right to dislike Cuban, not want him as the owner, or be skeptical of his managerial style. But I just don’t see where it’s up to the pro-Cuban faction to prove that he’s NOT going to do something. If I were a judge (where’s Fraggin Judge when you need him?), I think I’d be looking more towards the prosecution having to prove their case, than I would the defense having to prove something’s not gonna happen.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 7, 2008 6:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This isn't a legal case.

I think, however, that I have provided reasonable reasons why I’m skeptical of Cuban.

I haven’t heard much, though, from the pro-Cuban faction other than “WELOVEHIMHE’DBEGREAT”. Some of the responses in this thread have done a bit more than that and I appreciate that—because I’m always open to reasonable debate and to have someone change my mind.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 7:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Al... I think you have to curb you skeptism

The man has been successful for years and years, and is a winner with a very competitive drive.

Not only that, but as discussed above… he is very resourceful and forward thinking. He’ll bring a greater standard of evaluation to whatever organization he owns.

Will he fire the current baseball men in place and bring in his own? we can’t answer that for sure… but I would suspect that since he is currently an outsider to the sport, he would leave most of the braintrust in place and enhance the system with more resources. More scouts… more scouting tools… better video libraries… improved facilities, etc.

Remember: he’s NOT a baseball man. He’s a baseball fan. He doesn’t have a group of “his” own guys to bring in. But he does have a number of ideas to bring with him.

I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008

by SackMan on Aug 7, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you're right...

.. then I would curb my skepticism. For now I think I’ll just wait and see.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately,

I think the Mavs are the best comparison we have for Cuban. His other business ventures (Broadcast.com, HDnet) are even less similar to the Cubs. If you do not accept the Mavs as a point of comparison, what kind of “evidence or facts” are you looking for? I’d be happy to look into it because (1) I think he’d be good for the Cubs; (2) I think having support for him online is a good thing; and (3) you’ve said you’re open-minded on him. If you tell me what info you’re looking for, and I’ll see what I can find out.

I happen to think that the Mavs are a pretty good point of comparison. Yes, they were lousy when he bought them, but it is a sports franchise in the free-agent era, which is as close to the Cubs as we can get. We certainly have more info on Cuban than, say, the Redskins fans had on Dan Snyder, who had never owned a sports team before he came in and cleaned house in the front office. Certainly, depending on how this year ends for the Cubs, our perspective could be different still. Plus, the NBA operates with a salary cap, and baseball doesn’t, which means deep pockets (and willingness to use them) matter more in baseball than basketball. Plus, as I said before, baseball’s farm system is unique among the major sports, and I think his record in player development speaks well of how he’d run it.

As for whether Cuban will clean house in the front office, your guess is as good as mine. I can only say that I haven’t seen rash personnel decisions from him in Dallas and that he seems to make decisions based on evidence, results and accountability. I don’t think we can ask for anything more than that.

As for any perceived tension between the current regime and his affinity for quantitative analysis, I’d just say that the idea behind such analysis is to give smart baseball people more tools to make good decisions, not to replace those people with a computer. A smart baseball person should welcome more and better player analysis, not dismiss it as unhelpful.

"Cone spelled backwards is ENOC."

by SABRCub on Aug 7, 2008 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

I know he runs his non-sport businesses well.

He’d have to, or he wouldn’t be wealthy enough to buy the Cubs.

What I’d like to know is how he treats his employees (other than players—not everyone’s going to get a plasma screen in their work space!), does he have a lot of front office turnover, and is he willing to step aside and let his baseball people run the baseball operations, and his marketing people run the marketing operations.

As noted elsewhere in this thread, George Steinbrenner promised to do that and then didn’t—and the Yankees’ current run of success began ONLY when he stopped meddling.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My friend works at one of his companies

Just an itty bitty part of the empire but I have heard no
complaints. He sees Cuban twice a year and is amazed he remembers his name ( I suppose he could get a crib sheet but my friend does not think so). For what little I know he leaves this company ( Magnalia Films) largely alone. FYI yes
that is the company that handled REDACTED and irregardless of the politics I thought Cuban handled himself well in the controversy and supported his company and the film.

No idea how this relates to his sports interest .

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 7, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah I don't know that he is necessarily a

“come in and fire everyone” kinda guy. knowing how business savvy he has been in his short lifetime, I feel confident that he would be inclined to deeply analyze the pros and cons of having certain individuals on staff. the knowledge and their history will likely play a role in this. I think that if someone goes, it will be because his “people” have evaluated their worth to this club and decided that there is better out there. I believe this man is driven by success. His dotcom success was incredible and as hard as he has tried with the Mavs, he has not enjoyed the same experience.

I think that he sees a club and an organization that may bring him that feeling/experience again and i believe he will do what it takes to get back to succeeding.

Should the Cubs win and keep winning, I wouldn’t be totally surprised to see him give up on the Mavs.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 7, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Would Cuban...

...be attending tonights event if he wasn’t pursuing the Cubs? I think Cuban is helping himself by getting in good with some of the players that may be playing for him next year.

by troutfishin on Aug 6, 2008 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll give one more reason

Players want to play for Cuban because, if his track record with the Mavericks continues, he treats his players first class—well, even more first class than professional athletes are used to. Stuff like luxury chartered jets and a mini-HD TVs in every locker.

Obviously that’s not going to cause a free agent sign with the Cubs for $50 million less than the Yankees are offering. But it does make for good team morale.

On the other hand, I’m aware of all the negatives that you’ve mentioned and agree with some of them. I’m very ambivalent about Cuban—although I do admit he might be a lot of fun to watch.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh77 on Aug 6, 2008 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm going to wait and see.

It does appear that he’s the “frontrunner”, for whatever that’s worth. Your analysis here is accurate.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 6, 2008 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not a big fan...

...of Cuban as a person, but he is a good business man as long as he’s not trying to produce movies(Redacted). This is the kind of owner this organization needs to put it into the realm of Yankee and BoSox dynasties.

by troutfishin on Aug 6, 2008 3:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Not a fan of Cuban as a person? Why? Did he punch your sister or something?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 6, 2008 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no it was...

my mother. No really, I was never a big fan of his antics as an owner of the Mavs, though I think he would be toned down as an owner of the Cubs. Another thing is his getting involved with the DePalma film(flop) “Redacted”. I thought that was an inappropriate thing to do with our troops in harm’s way. I’ll leave it at that.

by troutfishin on Aug 6, 2008 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you for at least explaining yourself.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 6, 2008 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't even know that he will be toned down

were he to become owner of the Cubs, I only hope that his enthusiasm and his desire to be “in the mix” has diminished a bit with, shall I say, maturity.

What I am saying is I hope some of his experiences as an owner of another pro team has prepared him for what behavior is “acceptable” and what is not. I believe it is possible, even if he remains the same “flamboyant” guy that he has been.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 7, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Their own TV station wouldnt hurt either

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Aug 6, 2008 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If they would let anyone who wanted it and paid for it get it...

then yeah….that would be nice.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 6, 2008 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The thing I like about a possible Cuban ownership

is how much it seems to scare other teams. I was trolling the Cards fansite the other night and was interested to see how they were depressed that the Cubs were a “big market team that’s finally starting to spend like a big market team”. They seemed particularly worried that a guy like Cuban would come in and the Cubs would become a league power for a long, long time. This is also probably a big part of the reason why Reinsdorf is supposedly so against Cuban owning the Cubs.
I’ve been a Cub fan for 30+ years and so I’ve learned to keep my enthusiasm in check any time things seem to be going too well for us but reading things like the above does make it hard to not get giggly.

by bluekoolaide on Aug 6, 2008 3:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I have this feeling that he has what it takes to win this bidding process

just a feeling though.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 6, 2008 4:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

I think that Zell and Cuban are willing to do whatever it takes to get it done. Could you imagine the lawsuits and bad PR that baseball would have to deal with if they didn’t vote Cuban into the “boys club”! Does anyone now what kind of vote it takes for approval? Simple majority?

by Grace17 on Aug 6, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you are...

....right about Zell and Cuban doing whatever it takes, particularly Zell. I believe that Zell will have a very small minority stake in the cubs no matter who he sells to but with Cuban he would simply make more money. You are right about the lawsuit angle, no one is going to stand in the way of zell maximizing his profit off the sale of the cubs.

by troutfishin on Aug 6, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Zell

is only keeping a minority stake to cut his tax burden. He might also want to make sure the Cubs stay on WGN.

You’re right in that he wants the most money but beyond that, he wants it in cash, and that’s what Cuban, who’s worth 2.8 billion, is offering. It’s been speculated (and I admit it’s just speculation) that with the credit crisis this nation is in right now, the other bids are going to have trouble raising the kind of cash necessary.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh77 on Aug 6, 2008 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm almost hoping...

...the Cubs present Cuban to MLB with the highest bid and the owners turn him down. I just want to see how Zell reacts to that. It could be as exciting as watching the Cubs in the World Series.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 6, 2008 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

From all of Zell's cuts and moves so far with TribCo

it seems like he has the bottom-line at the forefront of his interests…Cuban represents that bottom-line becoming even fatter in Zell’s pocket…

Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 6, 2008 4:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

there would be no lawsuits

All parties have to sign off agreeing to that in order to participate in the sale.

by cubswin on Aug 6, 2008 5:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i don't think you can waive antitrust

or every business deal would waive it and there would be no antitrust law

the pink hat guy is my father

by joeschmitt on Aug 6, 2008 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Baseball is EXEMPT from Anti-Trust law

Also it would be hard to fight the MLB. You agree when you purchase a club
that it takes 2/3rds of MLB ownership to approve a sale, Zell inherited this when he purchased the
Tribune so I don’t see how he breaks the contract anyway. If Cuban’s bid is signicantly higher
than other bids I really don’t see Selig or Reinsdorf being able to block him but who knows.
Selig did of course manage to make the Red Sox take less for their sale to his approved buyer
but things have changed , however IF Selig and or other Cuban opponants have the votes I think
they could block the sale.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 7, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If nothing else

I like the idea of Cuban owning the Cubs since he’s a sports fan, not just someone who is treating it as an investment. Don’t get me wrong, he would make money off it, but he desperately wants to win anything he’s involved in.

by chitownhawkeye on Aug 6, 2008 5:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

+ 1

He would rather win a World Series than maximize profits. An owner focused solely on the bottom line would probably be wise to slash payroll by $25 – 30 million, since it is unlikely that this would cause a comparable decline in revenues. I would be shocked if this were Cuban’s plan.

"That’s what I love about my skip, man. He’ll tell you that you suck...I know I suck. We know we suck...Yeah, we suck. But we’ll see who sucks at the end."
- Gary Sheffield

by DrGalazkiewicz on Aug 6, 2008 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hendry and Piniella

are the main talent evaluators for the Cubs, and the new owner, whoever he is, will be wise to keep them in those roles.

by Clark Addison on Aug 6, 2008 5:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Given what those two have done this year...

... I’d wholeheartedly agree.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 6, 2008 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

a smart businessman will certainly do so

and by the way, it would’ve been great to see a woman bid on the Cubs—especially given that women hold most of the wealth in this country…Maybe in another decade or two.

by Emelie on Aug 6, 2008 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is Marge Schott still around?

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Aug 7, 2008 4:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unless the Cubs...

...just blow up down the stretch, I would agree both Hendry and Piniella should and probably will be retained (also extended) by new ownership.

What I would also anticipate, is the new owner bringing in some top level exec to either be VP of baseball operations or at least in an advisor role for the new owner.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 6, 2008 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why?

Doesn’t Hendry essentially have that title? Why would you bring someone in for him to report to?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 3:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Two reasons...

...usually, when someone pays this type of freight for a franchise, they like to have someone they put in place to be at the top of the food chain. Also, Hendry has done a good job with the ML franchise in the last year and a half (with help from Piniella), but there are still questions about his ability to be a big picture head of baseball operations guy and I think his complete track record would bear this out.

I like Hendry, but you have to recognize his strengths and weaknesses.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 7, 2008 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that you have to add..

... more people to HELP Hendry. I’m not sure another layer between Hendry and ownership is necessarily the best idea.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can I give an example?

Lets assume the Cubs win the World Series this year, because it’s fun to think about. :-) The last time a team was sold after having won the World Series was the Angels, who were sold to a different self-made billionaire, Arte Moreno. Moreno’s not as flamboyant as Cuban, certainly, but he’s also a very public owner who likes to hang out with the fans in the stands and keep a high profile.

Moreno brought in Dennis Kuhl, an old friend and business associate, to serve as team president. He kept Bill Stoneman and Mike Scioscia in their places.

Most of the changes came in the marketing and business end. Moreno and Kuhl explained their plans for the team and said that anyone who could support those plans were welcome to stay. Some people did leave or were fired—mostly people who objected to the change in strategy from an Orange County-centered team to a team that would be marketed to the whole southland.

But the job of Kuhl is to represent Moreno and to make sure everyone in the organization is on the same plan. In many ways, Kuhl does what Crane Kenney does for the Cubs. I think that Cuban needs someone in that position, should he buy the team. Maybe that person can be Crane Kenney or maybe he needs someone of his own. But there’s no reason to believe he would come in and strip Hendry of his authority on the team side—especially with the best record in the NL on his resumé.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh77 on Aug 7, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This makes a lot of sense.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Cuban kept Crane Kenney around. Kenney knows the territory and has a good relationship with the city and neighborhood, and has in his short time as team president already started committing the team to winning. I’m not sure if Cuban has anyone who’s close to him as Moreno had Kuhl to take such a job, and he might be well-served to keep Kenney.

I also agree that the baseball operations staff has probably all saved their jobs by their showing this year.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the one aspect...

of Cuban that I appreciate the most is his willingness to think outside the box when it comes to the fan’s experience. I recall a while back he postulated that he “only” makes $6 or $7 million in ticket sales from the upper deck at Mavericks home games each season. He was contemplating some kind of naming rights/sponsorship deal where someone would pay him that money to call it the “Corporate Name Upper Deck” and he would sell the tickets for free or $1 to the public. The ticket might have that corporations logo on it, or the seats might have the logo or whatever but cheap tickets are cheap tickets.

With the way Cubs prices are going, something akin to that for the upper deck might slow the progression of pricing there. Only 8 years ago it was $10/$15 for the upper deck, now it’s $40/$50.

by CubFan81 on Aug 6, 2008 9:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The Cubs have already floated naming rights ideas like that...

... they already have the Bud Light Bleachers, and I would expect them to have deals like that rather than any naming rights sold for the park itself.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 3:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah but

did selling the naming rights to the bleachers reduce the cost of the tickets? That’s what the poster above is proposing: sponsorship that reduces the cost to the fan (like how TV ads fund programming)—not just increasing top line revenue to the team.

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Aug 7, 2008 4:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Understood.

Cuban would be a very popular guy if he’d do that. Arte Moreno did something like that with the Angels when he reduced concession prices when he took over.

Obviously, as a season ticket holder, if Cuban would hold down or reduce the cost of my tickets it’d be points in his favor in my eyes.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd guess Cuban is the man

He and Zell seem to be a lot alike—mavericks (no pun intended) with a lot of money who enjoy thumbing their noses at the establishment.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see Zell sell to Cuban.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 6, 2008 11:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Cuban was there bowling

And he told the AP:

“The Cubs have got smart, smart people here. I mean they’re winning, they’re doing great things, I’ll just stay out of the way,” Cuban said. “Believe it or not, I can stay out of the way.”

That might calm some of the fears around here. On the other hand, the skeptics can point out that George Steinbrenner promised to be a hands-off owner when he bought the Yankees.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh77 on Aug 7, 2008 12:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Both of those things are true.

If he really does feel that way about the Cubs—well then, I’d be willing to change my mind about him. Stay out of the way? Doesn’t sound like Mark Cuban to me. But then, maybe he actually does realize that the Cubs are different than the Mavs, where he pretty much had to rip it apart and start over.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 3:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The minute I saw that quote

Especiailly the part about staying out of the way, I thought of Al. Practically sounded like
a personal appeal for Al’s support.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Aug 7, 2008 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cuban reads BCB...

that’s the only logical answer.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 7, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He told me when I met him in Vegas that he reads BCB...

... so maybe he’s read these theads. Who knows?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I replied on this point above...

I guess I should look into it more – even if he turned over the whole roster when he bought the Mavs, did he do the same with the front office? I don’t remember that he did. Off to Google… I’ll be back…

"Cone spelled backwards is ENOC."

by SABRCub on Aug 7, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks.

Now—keep in mind that even if you find that he DID turn the front office over, remember that the Mavs were the dregs of the NBA when he bought them and probably NEEDED that.

The Cubs don’t.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's a pretty good history of Cuban and the Mavs:

http://sportsbiznews.blogspot.com/2007/05/cuban-rules-mark-cuban-learning-hard.html

Certainly some warts there (nobody’s perfect), particularly the Nelson lawsuit stuff, but it does say he kept on front office people when he bought the team.

"Cone spelled backwards is ENOC."

by SABRCub on Aug 7, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK...

... here’s some stuff that worries me from that article:

“It’s like ‘Desperate Housewives’ in the NBA,” says Wayne Winston, an Indiana University math professor who, as a private consultant, does statistical modeling for Mr. Cuban to predict which players, and referees, offer the best chance of success for his Dallas team in the Wall Street Journal report.

A math professor is making judgments for Cuban on player success?

Nowitzki had suffered sprained ligaments in his left knee in the third game of the best-of-seven series, but, with the Mavericks trailing three games to one, was cleared by team doctors to play again. Cuban as has been well reported confronted Nelson in the coach’s office and demanded the star forward return to the court, Mavericks officials say.

Sounds Steinbrenner-like to me.

The relationship between Cuban and Nelson continued to head downhill. According to the Wall Street Journal report Cuban refused to authorize Nelson’s expenses for scouting trips in 2004 (Nelson was responsible for selecting future Mavericks in the NBA draft). Cuban’s crassness may have bothered Nelson but standing in the way of your general managers’ ability to build your franchise is the hallmark of a bad sports owner. Cuban was quickly turning his feelings towards Nelson into becoming the type of owner Cuban never wanted to become, an owner whose actions hurt his teams’ ability to win.

To be fair, most of those things happened several years ago. Here’s a good summary:

The issue with Cuban is he seems more often then not wanting to be the center of attention. Let’s not mistake passion for the "Billy Madison syndrome". At times Mark Cuban behaves like a spoiled child who when he doesn’t get his way stomps and yells until someone notices him. David Stern then becomes the parent who has to discipline his misbehaving child. On every level when Mark Cuban acts like a child he’s doing a disservice to all the great decisions and moves he’s made as an owner and as a business man.

That last sentence is perfect. If Cuban can control himself, it sounds like the BUSINESS decisions and moves he’s made as Mavs owner could be translated to similar moves for the Cubs. That’s what I’ve been saying—if he can stay out of the way and just let the people who know what they’re doing run the team, yes, he’d be fine.

I’m just not convinced, YET, that he’s capable of doing that.

Thank you for the link. Very illuminating.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're welcome

I think the Cuban supporters do a disservice if we pretend that he’s perfect. He’s not. An ongoing, informed, conversation is a good thing. In that spirit, let me add this response:

Yes, a math professor does modeling for Cuban, and that’s a good thing. Smart statistical modeling can reveal information that would otherwise remain hidden. Nowhere does it say that the prof makes judgments for Cuban. That’s something very different. Somehow I don’ think the professor made the final call on the Jason Kidd trade. (If he did, he should be fired, but that’s another story). Gathering information from smart, non-traditional sources is a plus in my book.

The scouting reimbursement thing is not good, but the tenor of the article was on Cuban learning lessons from past mistakes.

Of course I disagree with the editorial last paragraph you cited above. Between Cuban and Stern, who has acted with more prescience with regard to NBA referees? I think you could argue that Cuban was ahead of the curve and that Stern (and the league) would have been better off listening to him rather than fining him.

I would only add that it’s probably to the Cubs’ benefit that they’d be his second franchise. Making mistakes is OK. Everybody does it. It’s not making the same mistake twice that is a hallmark of success.

"Cone spelled backwards is ENOC."

by SABRCub on Aug 7, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can only speak for myself

but I have and never will pretend he is perfect. That would be ridiculous. I do however, have a feeling that being an experienced owner now, that he will have more sense and understand the value of hands on yet hands off management.

The obstacle for him, as I see it, is to not view this team (should he become the owner) as a product that he, and only he, can manipulate and improve. To allow others, with more experience and knowhow, to help him improve this, already powerful franchise. I hope he can because as I said before, I have a feeling, this is our man.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 7, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

About the NBA referee thing...

... sure, Cuban has turned out, apparently, to be right about what was going on. It was the way he approached it - like a petulant child - that angered Stern and the other owners. If Cuban had come to Stern behind closed doors and presented his position, the referee scandal might have broken two years ago, and Cuban would have been hailed as a hero.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A commissiner of a major professional sports league....

would listen to constructive criticism behind closed doors and DO something about it? Really? You think so? Cause I don’t.

Selig…see the PED Era of Baseball

Tagliabue/Goodell…see the drug/arrest Era of the NFL.

Stern…I can’t comment on the NBA because an actual game of basketball (according to the rules) hasn’t been played in that league in almost 12 years.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 7, 2008 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, I see your point.

But I’d say that any executive would probably be more willing to listen to someone talking quietly and logically behind closed doors rather than exhibit the histrionics that Cuban did, which probably led to Stern completely ignoring what he was saying.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stern wasn't going to do JACK about it Al....

and I think everyone knows this. This is the reason why Cuban probably handled it the way he did. The guys who “run” these leagues don’t do anything unless it

a) affects the $ coming in
b) real proof is given to show the problem exists (the whole thing blows up in thier faces)

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 7, 2008 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

True Al

When my wife and I bought our townhome, part of the appeal was that we had to do no work on the place at all. It appeared to be the perfect fit for our family.

Seems like Cuban sees a product he will have to do little upgrading immediately to produce quality. He is a VERY smart man and I believe he wants to win.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 7, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure he does want to win.

It’s the methods that I’m wondering about.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well obviously

the only way to really know his tactics is to observe them as the owner. I figure you will never really come around until he proves you wrong in your assumptions. I’m not saying he would even because anything now would be speculation.

I ahve to go on record as saying he has matured a bit as an owner and will be more tame than many expect.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 7, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

See the above quotes.

I’m not so sure about his maturation. If you’re right, great.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 7, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But again

you are selecting examples of him as an owner in the NBA which, you have said time and again, cannot be compared appropriately to MLB.

I think he has a different, better product in the Cubs which will prove to require less intervention. It is just my opinion though, as it is yours.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 7, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like those comments a lot...

of course one has to deliver but I think he will be a great owner.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 7, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I read somewhere that Cuban said

after a short time he realized that the Mavs belonged to the fans and he is it’s “caretaker”.
I really think he has grown as an owner and he understands the magnitude of owning the Cubs. I also think he got a bad rap when he was outspoken about the refs in the NBA. It turns out he was at least right about one of them fixing games.

by Rick B on Aug 7, 2008 7:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs