Baseball 101: Cubs 3, Cardinals 4
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:23 AM CDT
in Recaps
499 comments
Lou Piniella got outmanaged last night, and I'm not real happy about that.
Answer this question: why would you, in the eighth inning of a tie game, have one of your best RBI men bunt? Maybe this question should be asked first, and don't look it up before you answer: how many sacrifice bunts did Geovany Soto have in his major league career before last night?
The answer is zero, and it's still zero after he bunted too hard and Ryan Franklin turned it into an easy double play, after Jim Edmonds had walked to lead off the inning and Felix Pie was sent in to pinch-run for him. Soto slammed the bat down in the dugout afterward (at least he didn't break any bones!); was that out of frustration at not being able to do the job, or disbelief that he was even asked? They couldn't believe it either in the Yahoo recap:
Top 8th: Chi Cubs
- J. Edmonds walked
- F. Pie ran for J. Edmonds
- G. Soto unknown into double play pitcher to shortstop to first, F. Pie out at second
- M. Fontenot grounded out to first
0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors
Chi Cubs 3, St. Louis 3
"Unknown into double play". Yeah, that about sums up the Cubs' 4-3 loss to the Cardinals. It wasn't just Soto's DP -- Alfonso Soriano also hit into one in the 9th -- but it was also failure to capitalize on other opportunities; the Cubs could have put the game away in the first inning with some timely hitting, and again in the sixth when they had the bases loaded and one out.
Ryan Dempster threw well enough -- it's no shame to give up a HR to Albert Pujols, many have done this -- and it wouldn't have mattered if the Cubs had scored the six or seven runs they should have scored last night.
The other criticism I have of Lou last night is: why didn't he walk Cesar Izturis? In a situation like that, you almost have to load the bases to set up force plays at every base. Yes, I am well aware that Skip Schumaker, who was on deck, is a far better hitter than Izturis. But if you induce Schumaker to hit the same grounder that Izturis hit -- only have the bases loaded instead of runners on second and third -- well then, all Soto has to do is step on the plate instead of try a desperate swipe tag. In that situation I think an IBB is mandatory, no matter who the hitter is.
Here's what Lou said:"We're playing like we're waiting to get beat," the Cubs manager said after Tuesday's 4-3 loss to the St. Louis Cardinals. "You don't have a big enough lead in September to play ball like that. Teams who play baseball like that invariably get caught, no matter how big the lead."
Yeah, that includes you too, Lou. I like Lou -- he's been a godsend to this team -- but last night wasn't his finest hour.
This is a strange month. There are 13 teams within five games of a playoff spot -- quite a large number for this late in the year -- and only five of them have winning September records:
Astros: 7-1 Dodgers: 7-1 Red Sox: 6-2 Mets: 5-2 Cardinals: 4-3 Angels: 4-4 Phillies: 4-4 White Sox: 3-5 Twins: 2-5 Rays: 2-6 D'backs: 2-6 Brewers: 2-7 Cubs: 1-6
Yes, only the bad play in Milwaukee has saved the Cubs from a horrid fate so far this month. Thank you for the second night in a row to the Reds, who came back and beat Milwaukee 5-4 in 11 innings after blowing a 4-1 lead. They'll play a day game today, with CC Sabathia on the mound for the Brewers, so the Cubs will know exactly how they need to do to reduce the magic number further before they take the field tonight in St. Louis.
I received an email from a friend last night, someone who is an occasional poster at this site, which read in its entirety:
Just shoot me now, it'll be less painful.
When I emailed him back to tell him I was going to post this -- and he can identify himself if he wants to, I won't -- he replied:
I still believe, but I'm taking Prilosec and buying a defibrillator off ebay.
I think we all need those. As ever, win tonight and the ship will begin to right itself.
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First
Yes, I couldn’t believe what I was seeing with Soto bunting, I was yelling at Lou through my TV.
by adam316 on Sep 10, 2008 8:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Lou....
found an old copy of the Don Baylor strategy manual.
by perseman on Sep 10, 2008 8:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's the only thing that would explain it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't believe they tried a bunt with Soto up...
I think the Cards were surprised too as they had a 1st pitch pitch out. You basically wasted a pinch runner in Pie… Why not try a straight seal or a hit and run. I thought it was ridiculous… and then the same thing happens in the 9th yet he doesn’t try to bunt with Sori? Why the double standard?
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
you have your fastest base runner on first, you have to let him steal 2nd and THEN maybe bunt him over to third. Plus, Soto looked like he was seeing the ball very well last night, let him take some rips up there. Lou is very frustrating at times when he does this stupid shit.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking hit and run, too.
I’ll give credit to Molina, so I didn’t think a straight steal was the best of ideas. But Soto can handle the bat, and since he was 2-for-3 coming in, why not let him swing? The hit and run puts more pressure on the defense, too, than does the sacrifice.
Oh well, hindsight is 20/20 I suppose. Gotta let this one go before tonight’s game.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the straight steal was taken away...
…by the fact that Ryan Franklin made FIVE pickoff throws plus a pitchout during Soto’s at-bat. He just did too good a job keeping Felix close. The hit and run was more than likely the best option.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When the count got to be 2-2...
a straight steal could have worked. The pitcher was probably going to throw it in a tough location. But like I said above a hit and run, I think would have been the proper move. If you don’t try that, then try the straight steal. The bunt was probably the worst move you could do there because Soto never has and he doesn’t have good speed, so anything less than a perfect bunt by him is probably a dp.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aluminum Bats: Death of the Bunt?
Because of aluminum bats in use in amateur baseball, bunts aren’t as common as they used to be. It’s harder to bunt with an aluminum bat than a wooden bat. It’s hard to expect professional players to be able to bunt when they haven’t done it very much at all in amateur ball.
Because the game is more offensively minded now than it was back in the 1980’s, managers don’t believe in giving up outs to move runners over nearly as often now. Why ask a hitter who can’t bunt to bunt?
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Sep 10, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy this excuse....
…if you have the talent to be a decent hitter, you certainly should be able to be a good bunter, because it is a hell of a lot easier.
The problem is this, no one spends the time on bunting skills and it really doesn’t eat up a lot of time to be a decent bunter. It’s attitude and a little practice, but few if any teams follow through on this.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this post reminds of of Sandberg’s HOF speech!
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go!
Hey Chicago what do you say,
The Cubs are gonna win today!
by revtrh on Sep 10, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am officially heading toward the ledge
I’ve managed to stay off it over the past week and a half, and remain optimistic, but two games in a row like that (even separated by an off-day) has just been too much. The only thing that is saving me from completely going over is the fact that the Brewers seem intent on matching the Cubs ineptitude.
by SuperContext on Sep 10, 2008 8:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This team is failing in every aspect right now.
Now even Marmol is blowing games. Yeah, I know it all comes down to timely hitting, but each loss is more painful than the last, and for different reasons. They are playing two hot teams right now. If they lose 4-5 out of six with the Cardinals and Astros, this team won’t even make the playoffs. The schedule is just too tough the rest of the way.
This is just not the team I’ve been watching all year.
by Mapmaker on Sep 10, 2008 8:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That wasn't Marmol's fault.
Well, partly it was for the balk, but I put that at least partly on Lou.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the balk was meaningless because Mármol walked the next batter.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 10, 2008 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True enough.
But I still don’t think it was “Marmol blowing the game”.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither do I. Actually, he pitched well.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 10, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is a one inning pitcher
He did his job, Lou should have replaced him in the 9th, not sure with who.
by JPetey on Sep 10, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is some evidence
that was brought up a while ago on this site that Marmol struggles in his second inning of work
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marmol couldn't have thrown more than 10 pitches in the 8th inning.
He was the right choice to start the 9th.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He threw exactly 10 in 8th
He just doesn’t seem to have the control he normally has after he rests in between innings
by JPetey on Sep 10, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outside of the walk....
He was okay.
The pitch location to Yadir was bad. You could tell he was trying to go the other way by the first foul…Should have pitched him inside
The swing checked swing bunt by Cesar was just luck.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marmol didnt pitch bad
The Cards executed perfectly to get the lead run on, moved over and across.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont agree
why pitch him til his arm falls off??
from the mouth of Uecker:
"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."
by cubsluver22 on Sep 10, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the loss was more of a team effort
Be he didn’t exactly get his job done
Molina singled to right.
Ryan pinch-running for Molina. On Marmol’s balk, Ryan to second.
Lopez walked on a full count. Barden pinch-hitting for Perez. Barden sacrificed, third baseman Ramirez to second baseman DeRosa, Ryan to third, Lopez to second.
Izturis safe on failed fielder’s choice, Ryan scored, Lopez to third.
by Mapmaker on Sep 10, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't be too sure they won't make it anyway
Starting tomorrow, the Phillies and Brewers play each other 4 times. Arroyo, the Reds hottest pitcher, starts against Sabathia today.
It’s not out of the realm of possibility that the Cubs could go 2-3 the rest of the trip and still see the magic number for the division reduced by 4 or 5. However, I’d bet that they win at least 3.
I think Piniella’s made some bad decisions this month, but I think the senile old man act is just that. The players have pride, too — now we’ll see how they respond.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're right
The funny thing is, I’m more worrieed about the Astros than anybody else. They’ve made miraculous runs in the past and they really took it to us the last series
by Mapmaker on Sep 10, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is amazing because of how banged up they are...
Hopefully, just as hot as they’ve been they hit their losing streak.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at what the Reds are doing to the Brewers
and I don’t recognize hardly anybody left on that team
by Mapmaker on Sep 10, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm interested to see how the Cubs respond this weekend to last week's sweep
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IIRC
this is the second time already this month that we have had reason to question Lou’s managerial decisions. He is having mental lapses under the pressure, just like our hitters are having lapses as well at the plate.
We will right this ship, we are too good of a team not to (despite recent play). Hopefully it will start tonight.
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 8:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And I also wonder
If Lou’s age is starting to show. I don’t remember him making such lousy decisions in close games earlier this season, or last year. Lately I am seriously wondering what in the hell Lou is thinking anymore.
by adam316 on Sep 10, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I wonder is whether this kind of decisions cost Seattle the title...
when Lou was the manager and they had the best record in baseball during the regular season. In a short series these decisions make you go home early. Like yanking your ace pitcher too early. Wait, that was last year in the playoffs, with the Cubs.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 10, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The weird thing is...
… that in the 2000 division series that Lou’s Mariners played vs. the White Sox, he outmanaged Jerry Manuel. OK, so maybe that isn’t that hard, but I hope Lou hasn’t forgotten how to do that in the 8 years since then.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he has. Hopefully.
FWIW, I think Lou generally outmanages LaRussa, just had some brain farts last night.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, they would have won had Zambrano stayed in?
IIRC, the Cubs scored 0 runs. Doesn’t matter who is pitching for you if you don’t score.
How’d the Reds do in 1990?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep the game close, especially if you haven't scored yet.
True, Lou does a good job most of the time, including with the Reds in the 1990 World Series. But a losing streak affects everyone’s psyche and the manager has to rise to the occassion. Lou didn’t have to face that situation in the 1990 postseason and I hope he doesn’t have to this year either.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 10, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do agree that he's made questionable moves
And I didn’t mean for my post to sound the way it does to me reading it again — but I don’t blame Lou for game 1 of the NLDS. I blame the offense — same as last night, actually.
The bunt with Soto was stupid, but it never should have come to that.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
And don’t worry. There was nothing wrong with your post. I think we both agree that a manager’s talent is more important when a team is struggling.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 10, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou should have pulled Z
for a pinch hitter in that game. He let him hit, then put Marmol in the next inning anyway, I still can’t figure that one out.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spot on with the comments on the bunting
Lou is having a bad month, too. Maybe he should visit Eagle River for a few days to clear his head.
I keed, I keed.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ways to get into the 2nd season
You can
Hold serve and get what you earned all season
Play your way in
Back in
Just get in !!!
Thank god for not loosing major ground
I've been bleeding double blue Cubbies & NY Rangers
by parrotinct on Sep 10, 2008 8:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The logical thing to do in the Soto Situation
Was to try the Hit and Run. It would have gotten the infield moving around and if Soto swings and misses, Pie has enough speed to swipe the bag…
While the bunt was stupid, it was even more stupid to leave the bunt call on when the count got to 2-1. It was the perfect pitch to hit and run.
They are playing scared and now Lou has cracked in the Media. The rant he went on to the Media should have been said in the clubhouse to the team and not to the general public…
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 8:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tend to agree...
…I would have liked to see a hit & run (or even a run & hit) on the 2-1 count. When a team is struggling offensively, sometimes you need to push the envelope and make something happen.
The club is very tight right now (no shit, huh?) and like Lou said last night, you need to keep being aggressive and the bunt was just the opposite.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they threw 5 pick off attempts during Soto's AB
Maybe Lou’s lack of trust in Pie played a role in it.
by JPetey on Sep 10, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was listening to the game on the radio on my patio....
…The bunt attempt by Soto was so dumbfounding that I ran inside to see the replay on TV so that I could actually try and believe that it really happened.
I mean I am still nearly speechless Lou had Soto attempt to bunt in that or ANY situation
Lou can get angry all he wants, last night he was just as culpable as the players
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Sep 10, 2008 8:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lou
Never sensed he was a rocket scientist from the begining.
Prehaps he and Soriano should of drove back to the team hotel together
I've been bleeding double blue Cubbies & NY Rangers
by parrotinct on Sep 10, 2008 8:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A loud standing ovation to you, Al.
Lou underestimated Izturis and lost the game as a result. Lou was playing for a one road lead on the road. Bunting with the hitter of the month? Are you sure Dusty stayed with the Reds this week?
When a team is struggling, the manager’s role is more important than ever. Put the team in a posiyion to win. If they don’t, then the manager is in a position to scold them. Otherwise, zip it, Lou.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 10, 2008 8:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Missed opportunities for sure
It was great you posted the Sept. records of NL contenders, because I was just thinking how it seemed that most of them (outside of HOU and LAD) were playing mediocre to downright awful baseball in September. Last night’s missed opportunities could be applied to the team’s record a as whole – we could be 7-8 games up right now and sitting pretty.
Right now Houston is probably the best team in the division based on the way they are playing and confidence. If they take care of the Cubs this weekend it is not unrealistic that they could pass us – and pass the Brewers too!
And I’m less furious about whether or not Soto was asked to bunt – how about being furious that the players are not executing offensively? STL executed, we did not. We did not start runners and hit into 2 deflating GIDP. Other than a few decent outings by starters during this streak (Dempster, Marshall, Marquis) every other part of the team is not functioning.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Sep 10, 2008 8:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
keep in mind
3 out of STL’s 4 runs came from a HR. The 4th was a lucky half-bunt.
Our three runs came from driving baserunners in.
It’s not as clear as you make it out to be.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al i am thinking...
you need to change the pregame thread around a little – do something that might change the mojo. Or even change the magic number – no dont eliminate it but rather put it upside down or something.
Sorry i am superstitious.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Sep 10, 2008 8:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, so am I.
Let me see what I can work on for the pregame thread this afternoon.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
mag #
get rid of the number and just put the random person’s name…those who want to look can figure it out.. ??!?!?
I'm a reader not a poster, but I'm also a poster so don't get any ideas.
by cozmotaylor123 on Sep 10, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeabutt....
the magic number continues to go down…that hasnt been the problem.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Sep 10, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good idea - post it upside down until we win 2 in a row
Just so we all know things are still ‘not right’ – not by a longshot…
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here they are
Playoffs: 11
Division: 14
McCain / Palin: The POW / WOW! Ticket
by Goat Whisperer on Sep 10, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Took this picture at a football game a couple weeks ago...
It was funny at the time… now, not so much…
by hokie316 on Sep 10, 2008 8:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
was that where the line formed
following the East Carolina game?
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much...
although ECU seems to be on their way to having a great season. VT will struggle this year, and I think I knew that going in… just didn’t want to admit it to myself.
by hokie316 on Sep 10, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's ok.
the entire conference is down this year. As a BC alum, it was tough to watch us blow a 6-point lead at home on Saturday.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't that loss to another ACC team?
Just sayin’…
by Clutch16 on Sep 10, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, to the triple-option Georgia Tech team.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al I agree 100%.
Lou looks like he is sitting around waiting to lose/
by Rick B on Sep 10, 2008 8:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dick Jauron of baseball?
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson
by MikeOxbyg on Sep 10, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excuse my baseball ignorance but....
Would it have been wrong to walk Pujols before his HR? I know it loads the bases at that point but I would rather face anyone on the Cards other than Pujols.
Also, I would much rather watch the garbage now instead of in a few weeks. At least we have time to right the ship.
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson
by MikeOxbyg on Sep 10, 2008 8:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In that situation...
…I think most managers would have pitched to Pujols.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe if it's the 8th or 9th you walk Pujols...
… not in the 6th with a 3-0 lead.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct
n/t
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUT
That pitch was a little too good to start the at bat. IMHO.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats on Dempster
n/t
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
If anything, I would have been throwing low and away. Less likely to yoke something out of the park.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As you can clearly see on the replay
Soto is looking for the ball down in the zone and Dempster got it up in Al’s wheelhouse.
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
by DKT on Sep 10, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there are 3 people in MLB that...
i would walk WITH THE BASES LOADED if i were a Cub:
1. Albert Pujols
2. Carlos Lee
3. Adam Dunn
Yes if it was a tie game i still would walk them with the bases loaded.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Sep 10, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still when Pjols came up my first instinct was "Walk Him Now!"
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson
by MikeOxbyg on Sep 10, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1,000,000,000
Why oh Why do you give HIM a chance
AT LEAST PITCH AROUND HIM
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Dempster was trying to do that.
He got a pitch up and out over the plate that was probably supposed to be high and outside. It happens.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that has NEVER happened in my wiffle ball games!
I hope you see the sarcasm in that reply
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Yes. We need a little laughter today.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A few "Caddyshack" lines might do wonders today.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HEY LAMA!
“Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know.” And he says, “Oh, uh, there won’t be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness.” So I got that goin’ for me, which is nice.
Thought that would be apropos (i think that is the right spelling)
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Sep 10, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SIT DOWN DANNY!
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's easy to grin,
When your ship comes in,
And you feel you’ve got the market beat.
But it’s the man who can smile
While all of the while
His shorts are to tight in the seat!
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh Ha ahh hahahaha...
ok Pookie do the honors!
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't just stand there - get some glue!
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Angie! Pick up that blood!
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE! (#13031 on the Cubs season ticket waiting list...)
by Zeke on Sep 10, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You owe me one gum ball machine.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I bet you were really something before electricity!
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE! (#13031 on the Cubs season ticket waiting list...)
by Zeke on Sep 10, 2008 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's that sign say?
No betting.
What’s THAT sign say???
No fighting.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE! (#13031 on the Cubs season ticket waiting list...)
by Zeke on Sep 10, 2008 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I turned to a Cardinal fan sitting next to me and said...
can we just put him on first…..bring the runner in from third and move the man on first to third and be done with it? He actually agreed with that….for about a second….then he turned to me and said, well…..maybe not.
by MOCubsfan on Sep 10, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remain calm
All is well. Cubs have gone 1-8, and have knocked 5 games off the MN. Go to the Brewers page and read some of the comments there. Not worried. Not worried at all (he says, rocking back and forth and twitching…)
"Don't worry, Joey. We'll go next year. They're in the World Series all the time" ---My grandfather to my sick father, October 10, 1945
by flyingdonut on Sep 10, 2008 8:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
was at the game
last night and you could fill it in the park that they were going to lose when Pie/Soto were in the double play…
Cardinal fans sure get mouthy after they win….hoping for a better outcome tonight.
Did you know Mark DeRosa wears Mark Texieras glove in RF??
I'm a reader not a poster, but I'm also a poster so don't get any ideas.
by cozmotaylor123 on Sep 10, 2008 8:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dont forget about Soto rounding third
He stopped before or on the base.
If he held up as he rounded 3rd and Quade is good position to see left field, Soto scores easily the way that ball got by Ankiel
Little things again cost a run
What was Soriano with men on 3rd last night 0-2 or 0-3
I've been bleeding double blue Cubbies & NY Rangers
by parrotinct on Sep 10, 2008 8:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Quade read ticked me off too...
His reads have been AWFUL the last quarter of the year.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was the play that had me muttering to myself...
“Uh oh, here we go again.” On the surface, I completely agree with the decision to hold Soto at 3rd—not the fastest runner, good arm in LF, Soriano due up—but it struck me as kind of passively waiting for something good to happen instead of going out and making it happen.
You’re up 3-0. Put the pressure on Ankiel to make a play, and maybe he’ll do exactly what he did… misplay the ball and allow the run to score easily.
by hokie316 on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had to hold him
Soto was just at the bag when Ankiel “Should Have” fielded the ball. He would have been out by a mile and then we would have all heard about him getting Soto gunned down at the plate before Alf.
What was wrong about the play was that Soto stopped….He should have aggresively rounded the bag and forced ankiel to throw the ball. That way, when Ankiel did miss play it he did not have to try to restart.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I noticed that too. Bad base running.
Even when the coach stops you, you round the bag unless the coach tells you to slide.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 10, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a general rule...
…the Cub’s baserunning this year has been less than stellar. Some of it has been Quade making some bad calls, but some players have also fallen asleep when they needed to pick up the ball themselves.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That play KILLED me - he should have started running again
He CLEARLY looked back and saw the guy misplay the ball. ARGH!!!
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He should have rounded the bag Agressively...
He stopped…He is a catcher…He is slow…the ball did not get that far away…He would have been out by a mile if he tried to restart.
Force the throw home by rounding the bag…bad base running not a bad stop by quade.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1....That was on Geo, he assumed Ankiel would make a clean play
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Sep 10, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never, never, never
assume an outfielder is going to field the ball cleanly, never.
When an OF has to field the ball (in anticipation of a play at the plate), you see them rush and juggle the ball often and they blew a gift run.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus Ankel Lets to show off his Arm
He is not going to throw it in a way that is going to allow it to be cut off and snipe Soto at Third.
Round the bag and force the throw.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a Cards fan
But would like to see the Cubs in the playoffs instead of the BrewCrew. I’m not sour grapes.
But, I’ll say if Soto ran on Ankiel, he’d get gunned. Ankiel might be injured but he’s got a good arm. See throwing Taveras out at 3rd from the wall on one hop earlier this year.
by rencelas on Sep 10, 2008 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But...
Did Soto score?
No – so even if he gets gunned (which i dont think he would have), at least you were aggressive.
Speaking about Cards/Brewers – i attended Saint Louis University and i have to say i appreciate Cardinal fans alot more than Brewer fans, and it shows when posters such as yourself come over here and talk like a normal person with the intent of talking baseball and not starting crap.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Sep 10, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah the key is
Soto didnt take off from second with a real intention of scoring and Quade definitely didnt intend on sending him. The real shocker is Soriano not coming thru with some timely hitting.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soto need to round the bag aggresively and force the throw
If he would have did that, he would have scored as soon as Ankiel booted the ball. Once he stopped, there was no way he was going to score.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have to be carefull with rounding too much
Ankiel could’ve thrown behind Soto at 3rd, assuming he fields cleanly and Soto rounds 3rd aggressively
by JPetey on Sep 10, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
But it would be tough for Ankiel as a Left Hander with his mometum going forward to throw across his body. The worry you have is if somebody cuts it off…then you might have problem. However, Ankiel likes to show off his arm so I doubt it could have been cutoff
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quade holding Soto was the right thing
to do. The ball was at Ankiel as Geo was about to hit the bag, he would have been dead by 30 feet if he’s sent. The part that sucked is that Ankiel misplayed it, so you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is why...
…you need to round the bag aggresivelly, so you are prepared for the misplay in the OF.
If you watch a 3rd base coach, he will either point at the 3rd base bag when a runner is approaching him – this means don’t round the bag, stay right on it. You do that if the ball is coming in quickly. He will give him the hold up sign without pointing at the bag, this means to go ahead and stay alert and round the bag.
Bottom line, once the ball was bobbled, he should have been prepared to score.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have said it many times...See Above
Quade putting the stop sign up was correct. What was wrong was that Soto did not round the bag…he let up before he got to the bag and basically stopped. If he rounds the bag aggresively then as soon as Ankiel mis plays the ball then he can wave Soto on…
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soto should have
at least rounded the bag aggressively, so that he had the chance to score if Ankiel booted the play. Soto stopped at the bag and did not round it at all.
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with all of you
Soto didn’t run to 3rd properly, aggressively, and it cost us.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there was no way to know Ankiel was going to overrun that ball.
it was too shallow to send him. Be upset that he didn’t score, but not because of that play.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't know...
…but you have to be in position to go if he does overrun or bobble the ball. That is baserunning 101 and between Quade and or Soto, someone was asleep at the wheel.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soto
isn’t Pie. He can’t stop or start on a dime. He’d already decided he was stopping at third when the ball was hit. Call it on Soto, but it’s not Quade’s fault.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drew...
I think we have all exonarated Quade on this…it was bad base running by Soto.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he would have been
safe without a throw??
I'm a reader not a poster, but I'm also a poster so don't get any ideas.
by cozmotaylor123 on Sep 10, 2008 8:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
TLR didnt bunt
with Lopez at the plate, while Len and Bob thought he should have, and it paid off when he drew a walk and was eventually moved over on the bunt by the next guy. Things just didnt go our way, the hit, the balk, then the walk to Lopez, the perfect bunt by that Braden guy and Izturis getting a piece on the check swing….even the play at the plate was close. Just not our night.
If we weren’t in the middle of this long losing slump I would be ok saying we just got beat.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 8:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Too many missed opportunities to tack on runs
If anything is cause for concern, it would be that (for me, anyway), because that’s not a new phenomenon to this team.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They showed a stat
during last night’s game showing teh Cubs as 3 for 9 w/ RISP, while the Cards were 2 for 3 (at that particular point in the game).
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 for 9 is obviously good on the surface
And I wasn’t able to closely follow much of the early innings — but how did they do with moving runners up or really cashing in scoring opportunities?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, 3 for 9 is usually good enough
one of the three hits was Dempster’s on which Soto couldn’t have scored. The other two hits came in the first three innings and were by Ramirez to score Theriot both times. After that, the Cubs did nothing with RISP, and were not particularly good moving runners up either (see Soto bunt into DP and Soriano grounding into DP)
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep; we're on the same page
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they haven't been
doing much in a while
After that, the Cubs did nothing with RISP, and were not particularly good moving runners up either
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The first inning killed
Even though the scored 2 runs, Lohse struck out the side. Being Lohse is a non strike out pitcher, that really sucked.
They also failed to see that the cardinals were pitching them away. They tried to jerk everything.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing's for sure
The Brewers WILL win today with Sabathia going. Maybe the threat of seeing the lead go to 3.5 will be what this team needs. Or maybe that will make them play even worse. We’ll see.
by bms on Sep 10, 2008 8:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the Reds are going to play the game, anyway
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not trying to be snarky
But there are no guarantees
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course not
But it feels like a sure thing, and I will be ecstatic if I’m wrong.
by bms on Sep 10, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fearless Prediction
Reds 16
Brewers 2
C.C. gets pulled in the top of the 2ND after giving up 9 earned runs and 3 HR’s including a grandiosa by Corey Patterson that lands in the second deck in right field.
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
by DKT on Sep 10, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dark Helmet would call this
a Ludicrous Prediction! LOL
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is well
past ridiculous!
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was fun to type
even if it won’t really happen…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
by DKT on Sep 10, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smoke if ya got 'em.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have a great shot
But it’s never a sure thing
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
by carolinacub on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sabathia's bound to lose SOMETIME.
Right?
Why not today?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arroyo is the hottest Reds pitcher right now
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he was pitching against us,
I would feel a lot better about his chances. He seems to lock us down everytime he pitches against us.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately that list is growing larger by the day!
Brett Myers, Wolf, Arroyo, that girl from bad news bears, that dude in bench warmers, on and on and on
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amanda Whurlizer...
would dominate the NL.
by hokie316 on Sep 10, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget Eddie Harris and his famous
Vaseline ball.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, if we're going to be superstitious, look at it this way
Sabathia has been nearly lights-out. If, counter to almost every instinct, he loses today, the magic number goes to 13 . . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Arroyo's slop...
…is on like is was against the Cubs, the Brewers will struggle to score runs. They are a pure fastball hitting club and Arroyo can drive you nuts with his slow stuff.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
He should have a picture of a garbage truck on his jersey instead of a “C”.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly....
…and Ned is going to make sure that his arm is going to fall out of his socket sooner than later.
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Sep 10, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now I know what it must feel like to be a junky
I keep thinking that, for my own sanity, I need to take a few days and just stop watching and hope for the best. Problem is I find myself almost involuntarily flipping over to the game just to see if, finally, they might be starting to come out of it.
These last several games have been so painful and frustrating that I finally think I’m starting to understand what fans went through in 1969. They really are hard to watch right now-it’s like I sit there expecting something bad to happen and the only question is how bad it’s going to be.
by bluekoolaide on Sep 10, 2008 8:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Let us all come up with ways to avoid watching for the next few days!
Seriously, I keeping getting drawn in, like a damn train wreck
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me, too
I’m in the “distance yourself” mode with this team. It hurts too much to be into every game, so I’m keeping an eye on them, but I’m doing other things. It’s rough. I haven’t even been posting here lately. Just holding it at arm’s length right now.
Damn they better win this thing.
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Sep 10, 2008 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Lou's tirade...
…last night and here is why; Lou has been through this as both a player and a manager and that is something most of his counterparts can’t say. He knows what it feels like (as a player) to be in pressure packed pennant races and needing to deliver when it matters. In fact, when the Yankees were going good in the 70’s, Piniella was regarded as one of the guys a pitcher didn’t want to face in a clutch base hit situation.
Sometimes when the lugnuts are coming loose, you have to get a little pissed at yourself and play the game with a higher purpose. After 8 of 9 losses, I think this is what he is trying to instill.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I found a a little disturbing about Lou's rant...
…was his tone of voice. He didn’t just sound angry; he sounded a little sad and desperate, too. I should note that I heard the rant on the radio, so I didn’t see his facial expressions. But, based only on his tone of voice, he sounded like he was on the verge of tears rather than venting the all-out rage we’ve seen Lou unleash on the media now and then.
I do agree with Al, though. I would also say to Lou, “Physician, heal thyself.” STOP asking RBI guys to bunt – did he learn nothing from DeRosa’s ill-advised bunt attempt a few days ago?
On the other hand, I think the question of whether he should’ve walked Izturis is debatable. If you pitch to Cesar, any weakly hit ball wins the game – and what better does Cesar Izturis do than hit balls weakly? Then again, Carlos Marmol had already walked a guy that inning, and we all know how Carlos can get wild in pressure situations, so I can’t completely hold Lou at fault for not putting Izturis on.
Still, I agree that Lou could have done better, and I’m a little worried about his mental state as well.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
…that was Lou’s typical “I am pissed off tone”.
Anyway, the Izturis situation is debatable. I for one would have walked him. Lou was probably hoping for a K, but Izturis certainly has the capability to hit a weak grounder, which is exactly what he did.
I just like the bases loaded option of being able to get the force at home (much easier than applying the tag). It puts more pressure on your pitcher, but that is why he is out there in that situation.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too Tight
I think they are playing tight. Everyone looks pensive out there. Somebody needs to loosen them up.. with Lou and Tramell… it will need to be a player… but even Dempster is looking tight
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Sep 10, 2008 8:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, Dempster was visibly frustrated...
…after giving up the home run to Pujols. But he still gave the team a quality start last night. You really can’t ask for more than that. Run production was – and is – the problem.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that and the team ERA of 6.29 in September...
..but your right in the sense that Dempster was not the problem last night.
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Sep 10, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tonight poses more trouble for offense
Looper has 2.40 ERA against Cubs in nearly 80 innings. Lilly needs to keep the ball in the yard
by BeltwayCubsFan on Sep 10, 2008 8:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
are you saying there is a pitcher who can stop the Cubs offensive attack?
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We've been lucky so far.
Despite a week and a half of losses we’ve kept the same lead and have shaved 6 games off the magic number to win the division. That’s why this collapse, as horrible as it is, has been tolerable. Let’s just not play like that in the postseason.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 10, 2008 8:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If they do, it won't be for as long as this has been . . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is past time
to shuffle the line up. Free Geo! No bunting; move him up in the order. Who to move down? You decide.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will
by Slakkr on Sep 10, 2008 8:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
fixed it for you.
YouLOU decides.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can criticize the managing all we want...
But the problem is plain and simple: WE CAN’T HIT. In the last 10 games, when this skid started, we’ve scored more than 3 runs TWICE. It is absolutely maddening how top to bottom, our lineup has great statistics and leads the league in runs scored, yet can’t score. It makes me want to pull my hair out. If this continues, one and done, my friends.
further, why don’t we run more? with the maddening amount of DPs this team hits into, surely we can get the runners in motion more, right? Especially with Pie on first in the 8th last night…why pinch run if you won’t use it to your advantage?
by reedjohnson on Sep 10, 2008 8:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It does seem like
a long time since the last double steal. One of the reasons this team was so fun to watch early is because they were aggressive. Executing hit and runs with ease, stealing bases, etc. They need to get back to that because this station to station ball they have been playing recently doesn’t seem to be working.
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Add to that...
The huge strike zone the umps are calling on the Cub hitters lately.
Last night had its fair share of outside pitches being called strikes (on Lee and others)! It is a little concerning that our guys are taking pitches right down the middle and swinging at many pitches that are outside the zone. Seems to me if they pitch you outside, then go to opposite field with the pitch.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Sep 10, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
that outside corner was frigging huge. Molina was catching pitches in the other batter’s box and they were strikes. The K that Lee had early in the game was atrocious.
I felt going into this series that if we win last night, we take 2 of three and if we lose we probably get swept. I hope I am wrong. The Cards are playing looser than we are and can be spoilers. Very dangerous. They may spoil themselves back into the division race.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I don't get
is why the Cubs pitchers don’t take advantage of an enlarged strike zone, such as last nights. I don’t remember seeing Dempster trying to stretch the outside corner when he was pitching.
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think Molina bitching at the ump helped?
In one of his early ab’s he stepped out 3 times on a strike call talking to the ump. I thought he was going to get tossed but the ump took it. I thought it was going to be counter productive for the Cards the rest of the game but it wasn’t. Could it have possibly helped?
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't tell you
But I sure hope it didn’t help. I thought Molina was going to be tossed as well.
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seemed like after that incident is when the liberal corner started.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree.
DLee got totally hosed on an outside pitch in the seventh.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
…but by the 7th inning, the light bulb needs to go off telling you to protect with 2 strikes on the pitch he has called all night.
In about the 3rd or 4th, he called an outside strike on Molina and it looked to be 6 inches outside and he did the same with Ramirez.
Lee is a veteran, and he needs to know better than to ignore what has developed the entire game in regards to the strikezone. I’d almost guarantee, that Perry kept reminding everyone the ump is giving the pitcher several inches off the plate and its up to the player to have that sink in.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or at least get people to go the other way
Lee getting pitched away away away and he’s STILL trying to pull everything. Soriano too. Drives me nuts when people excuse well paid players by saying they are ‘paid to drive runs in’. Hitting a ball to the right side rather than the left or not taking a third strike with a guy on 3rd and <2 outs is all about scoring and winning. Shouldn’t single those 2 out, but they come to mind.
by JCD on Sep 10, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree...
…and that is up to the players to get that done.
The Cubs only have 2 guys who consistanly use the entire field – Ramirez and Theriot. When Soto thinks right center, he is a monster and I can see him being the 4 or 5 hitter by 09 without question.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Sori and Lee have totally forgotten to go with the pitch for the most part. Sori did go the other way with the bases juiced and ALMOST got it.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That probably had more to do with the fact that he was late on his swing
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Today is THE DAY
CC get’s rocked! I know it doesnt happen very often but he is way over due.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
After posting this I went to look at his game log
WOW – Since the Brewers got him, the team has only lost one of his starts. Know which one? His stat line since joining them is plain ridiculous.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be in one of Teddy Lilly's good starts.
First game of the 4-game sweep, IIRC.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm freaking out here
A lady at work asked me rather innocently how the Cubs are doing and I almost ripped her face off!!! I can’t take it anymore. I think i’m going to have to stop following the Cubs as close as I have been this year. It’s ruining my life. Somebody hold me!!
Seriously, I knew Pujols was going to hit a HR in the 6th as soon as the first 2 got on. I said to my roommate, “Watch this HR he’s about to hit” and boom, there it went. I might have jinxed Dempster.
I just want to start winning again.
by McRipper on Sep 10, 2008 9:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
this is insane!
we are all (most of us) losing it over this. Please let us all not watch tonight. LET"S BAN THE CUBS for one night. Let us do it. We all agree to check the scoreboard on mlb.com at 10:30 tonight. Deal. Cmon guys. Let us not ruin our nights, relationships, everything over a bunch of guys who can’t help themselves right now. I’m serious.
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you
tonight’s game isn’t on WGN so I couldn’t watch it anyway, but I promise not to follow it on mlb.com at all.
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same thing tonight...
We are all scrutinizing every little play in the game. I think I will just check the score at 10:30 and not have to worry and agonize if they do drop another on a silly play.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll think about it.
I must admit, this might be just crazy enough to work.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What else is on TV tonight?
I’ll think about it, but I’d much rather yell at Tony LaRussa than watch ‘Criminal Minds.’ Though ‘Greatest American Dog’ might get my attention…
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a hell of a lot of laundry to put away.
Problem is, I’m going to be tempted to turn on Pat & Ron. Does listening to the radio broadcast count?
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say just change the method in which you follow the game.
Go from TV to radio, or to Gameday, or something like that.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was listening to Pat & Ron last Saturday in my garage (engine NOT running)
rather that listening in my house to the usual XM broadcast . We live just far enough away to not get WGN radio in the house, but I can get a so-so signal on my van radio when parked in the garage.
Sooooo, that’s what I’m going to try again tonight.
Here’s hoping.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE! (#13031 on the Cubs season ticket waiting list...)
by Zeke on Sep 10, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I spend way too much time here b/c I remember discussing that w/ you
"A catchers biggest concern behind the plate is to make his pitcher pitch a little better than he can" Roy Campanella
by Madison Cub Fan on Sep 10, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ditto. A rather sad commentary on our infliction, don't you think? ;)
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE! (#13031 on the Cubs season ticket waiting list...)
by Zeke on Sep 10, 2008 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps tonight is a good night to catch up on the last two episodes of the Shield...
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Sep 10, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give it a shot.
I have errands to run tomorrow anyway.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know what you mean
I’m very defensive lately and I can’t seem to keep my head up, it’s like I’m constantly staring at the ground. Then when people ask about the Cubs I just start nodding from side to side as if to just say NO. Dont go there.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wore a cubs shirt the other day
and was asked by two random people what the cubs problem was.
seriously?
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on Sep 10, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BAN THE CUBS FOR ONE NIGHT
FOR ALL OUR SANITY. CMON SANTOSWOODENLEGS, MAKE THIS HAPPEN
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 9:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
but what if they win?
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on Sep 10, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then we BAN THE CUBS THE NEXT NIGHT obviously
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's the idea.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
so if they lose a game and you ARENT watching would atribute their success to your not watching and then continue to not watch?
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on Sep 10, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I'd just go back to watching again.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The worst part about the Cub losing streak
Is that I refuse to watch sportscenter or read the newspaper box scores when they lose because I want no reminder of the loss. I have no idea what is going on in the world of sports since the losing streak started – I thought someone said something about the NFL season starting.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Sep 10, 2008 9:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm doing the same thing
I’m not watching SportCenter or reading any sport websites except BCB
"Destiny is a matter of choice, not chance"
by MerlinDog on Sep 10, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I watched some sort of Law and Order after the game last night just to avoid a reminder of the game
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone else
remember a time when it seems so many teams are struggling to seal the deal. Its almost like a bizzaro world where you have to lose to get in.
Let go cubs
by cubsfaninkc on Sep 10, 2008 9:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
except for the Angels
pretty sure they’ve sealed the deal… how terrible is the AL west.
by cubbiefanTN on Sep 10, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even the Angels are struggling...
… playing .500 ball this month.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It could be worse, The loser of the AL
Central won’t make the playoff. At least we can control our own destiny and get the wild card.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would bet...
that their september callups are getting the majority of the playing time, however i have no evidence/research to prove this.
by cubbiefanTN on Sep 10, 2008 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ithink it would be great if Pat Hughes
broke into Harry Doyle at the end of a game –
"The post-game show is brought to you by…
[searches through his papers]
Christ, I can’t find it. To hell with it. "
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 9:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
My own recap
1. Demp pitched great but was too confident that he could Pujols out. He HAS to walk him or give him ABSOLUTELY nothing to hit.
2. Agree with Al, you HAVE to walk Izturis… I’m no baseball genious but I DO know that having force outs on ALL bases is the key to getting out jammed.
I’m so frustrated….. I was thinking at the top of the 6th about posting today that Demp is the Cubs true ACE of the staff and then he just went out there and GAVE pujols a HR.
And the offense NEEDS to produce more runs… I put the loss squarely on their shoulders!!!
by cubbiefanTN on Sep 10, 2008 9:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This reminds me of the 89 playoffs
Where, after basically brilliant managing the entire season, the whole thing came FLYING off the rails once we hit October. Now it’s happening in September.
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 9:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
well, Will Clark was a pretty big impediment to that '89 train...
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs...
…either had really bad scouting reports on Clark or their pitchers completely clammed up against him. I watched him launch those same pitches into the twilight zone in college, and he did the same to the Cubs.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't the tale that he read Maddux's lips in Game 1
just before his grand slam? I don’t remember much about the game (it was my first Cubs game at Wrigley), but I remember Sandberg’s homer and Clark’s slam.
The crazy part is, for as good as Clark was, Grace hit over .500 in the series, too, if I’m not mistaken.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know...
…but Will Clark had exceptional plate coverage as a hitter and his sweet spot was exactly where Cub pitchers threw him most of that series.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grace was .647 / .682 / 1.118 to Clarks .650 / .682 /1.200
Amazingly similar numbers….
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Sep 10, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Were You With the 85 Bulldogs?
Did you play with Clark, Palmeiro, Brantley, Thigpen, and Gene Morgan?
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Sep 10, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gone just before that...
…but Clark, Palmeiro, Brantley and Thigpen were on the teams I played on.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
After all this, it will come down to head to head against the Brewers.
But here’s a little “light” concerning the wild card. If , and I know it’s a big if lately. If, the Cubs can play .500 ball the rest of the way, Philadelphia and St. Louis would have to go undefeated the rest of the way to pass us.
by Rick B on Sep 10, 2008 9:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The bunt was not an ISOLATED bad move.
I know I have been A. A broken record B. Beating a dead horse ( choose your graphic) since APRIL that Lou is a BAD manager. Everyone ( well almost everyone) made fun of me because he could not possibly be a bad manager if the team had the best record in baseball but they had the best record in baseball because they had great players especially starting pitching. When Lou has to make a serious (as in anyone but Marmol or Wood ) pitching change he usually screws it up and the same with the bench. His nearly psychotic obsession with righty/lefty match ups and his only “trusting” certain players has lead to a number of losses. Dusty’s greatest asset was making EVERY player feel like he was a great contributor to the team, Lou thinks making everyone of them terrified of being in his dog house works better. No I don’t think Lou is as bad as Dusty but he does have a MUCH better team to work with. The thing which continues to terrify me is that while I fully expect the Cubs hitting to come alive and the pitching to get back to its normal excellent standards, I don’t think Lou will change and I don’t want to see Howry coming with a 2 run lead in the NLDS or pinch hitting Ward for Lee in a tie WS game. We often worried with Dusty that the inmates were running the asylum , well with Lou the despot is crushing the life out of the team.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 10, 2008 9:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"Dusty’s greatest asset was making EVERY player feel like he was a great contributor to the team"
If by “every player” you mean Neifi Perez, I totally agree. Otherwise, I have to say no way. Dusty obviously didn’t play/trust his younger options. He had his horses, remember? At least Lou plays with anyone he thinks gives us a chance, whether you’re a rookie or veteran, a miillionaire or a bum out of AA.
That said, Lou isn’t perfect for sure. Last night proves this.
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Sep 10, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Lou plays and overplays "his guys"
So Marmol waits for his arm to fall off and Howry blows games and Eyre and Lieber who if handled correctly might actually have worked are dumped. Same with the bench.
The 03 team performed WAY above expectations for that roster. It was not NEARLY as good a team as this one re personal. Lou got guys like Karros, Glanville, Simon to be major contributors and career years from Grudz and Borowski among others. Yes taken to it’s extreme it led to the Neffi and Hawkins disasters but if Lou might actually make players feel like ALL of them contribute instead of = making them think they are one game away from being shipped to the minors or the Nats, it might HELP. His in game decision making is not better than Dusty’s and there is no way this roster is not MUCH better than 03. The trick is NOT TO BLOW IT with his overmanaging.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 10, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Lou the despot"?
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I look at it this way...
…if your team is going to win the World Series, they are going to have to show character and come through when the going gets tough. If Lou challenging them is going to cause them to fold, I would argue they won’t win anything anyway.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So that is why Francona has two WS rings ?
Francona has managed to effectively instill in his players a sense they are needed, wanted and useful
without making them feel like their next strike out or walk will get them in his doghouse. There was a time when Lou’s “old school” managing worked but not here and not now. He should be calming things down not freaking out. As I have pointed out again and again since April, I am not a ledge jumper and I think we have truly great team but Lou is doing more harm than good.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 10, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point is this...
…managers of different styles have won world series. Even Dusty was within outs of a championship and has taken numerous teams to the playoffs. Teams end up winning because of their players first and their manager second and if his comments last night derail there chances, I think they would have folded up under pressure regardless of who is managing.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really care about last nights comments
My obsession has from the start been his mind boggling in game decisions and his extremely uneven treatment of players. Last night was just a minor example in both the bunt decision and the tirade but this as always goes back to that Phillies series I saw in April and much of what has happened since.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 10, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would have guessed zero on # of Geo bunts
which is why I screamed at the TV, spilling some of my Old Style. The wife is asking why of course (the louder screaming instead of just normally loud) and my reply is, “he’s bunting with one of his best RBI guys, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!”
A bit too many bad moves coupled with a bit too many times of not making the play. That all adds up to 1-8 in their last 9.
The Cubs have precisely played .500 ball the last 20 games and the Brewers have gained one game in the “L” column. That’s the only positive spin I could put on any of this right now. I go back 20 games since it also included the 7 game winning streak right before this 9-game funk.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Sep 10, 2008 9:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the bunt
Perhaps I’m the only person who sees no problem with it. This team cannot score runs. It grounds into DPs almost at the opponents will in big situations. I have no problem with the manager trying to manufacture a run. I don’t care if its Soto, Soriano, Theriot or whoever. How may times have I heard Cub fans complain that the manager refused to have his big bat bunt over a hitter. It was late in the game and this team is not scoring runs.
Chalk another game up to the Cubs unable to score the runs the opponent was trying to give them. Like Sunday, the Cubs should have had 6 or 7 runs late in the game. Finally Len Kasper pointed this out during the middle of the game.
DmL
by dmlichte on Sep 10, 2008 9:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that you can't assume that if you try to bunt, you
will be successful. The result of that play proved it. You have to look at the situation and the player and determine if he has a better chance of succeeding if he attempts a bunt or he swings away. Mqnqgers always talk about giving a player the best chance at being successful. The fact that Geo had never executed a sac bunt should play into Lou’s decision to attempt it.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
If it had been Dome trying to execute that bunt, I’d feel a lot differently. I can’t understand why Lou didn’t learn his lesson with that disastrous DeRo bunt recently. He basically played right into TLR’s hands by calling for Soto to bunt.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Leaving it on with the 2-1 count
is really mind boggling. That is the perfect Hit and Run count. Show the bunt early and then pull it back and swing away. The obviously gave him a pitch to hit since he was able to at least get the bunt down.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Allowed to bunt list
Pie, Dome, Cedano, Theriot…that is it.
Allowed to Hit and Run List
Soto, Lee, Ramirez.
Those are the two lists that Lou should be managing from late in the game if he needs to try to move a runner.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shouldn't Riot be allowed to hit and run?
Him and Soriano would seem to be the ideal combo for that IMO.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes...His scrappiness
Gets him on two lists
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should also add
Reed to the allowed to Bunt list…
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes he should, just not for a basehit with two outs in the ninth
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd guess DeRo could probably hit and run as well.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where is SANTOSWOODENLEGS?
I need a BAN THE CUBS FOR ONE NIGHT POSTER QUICK
Who is in?
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 9:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe this will help.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dumb idea....
my powers can only be used for good.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 10, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
aahh your just saying that becuase your running for office....
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Sep 10, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which office?
This office?
Theriot, Fonty, and Johnson = The Scrappy Pyramid of Victory
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Sep 10, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your 9th inning call, Al
As a Cardinal fan, I was screaming at LaRussa to pinch hit for Izturis. As a Cub fan, I would have been screaming at Pinella to walk him. With one out, you have to set up the force and/or the double play.
by stlfan on Sep 10, 2008 10:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I really want to stay off the ledge, and the Brewers are the only reason why I'm still hopeful
All that being said, it seems like right now we are just banking on the fact that suddenly the offense will get going come October. I don’t see that happening right now.
I wish I could be more hopeful for a win today, but Looper dominated us this season, and Lilly doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. Harden is the one who is going to have to step up on Thursday and prove that pitching really is king.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I am absolutely astounded...
…at the way the Cubs and Brewers have essentially been mirror images of each other this month. Like a child grasping a teddy bear, I am holding on to the fact that, of the seven games the Cubs have played thus far in September, their starters have pitched quality starts in five of them. I’m hoping that, just like they did coming out of the all-star break, the starting pitching will remain strong until the bats can start hitting consistently again.
The last two losses have been so, so close. I am not on the ledge, but I am edging closer and closer to the window.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said this is Rich Harden's time to shine
IF he really is this ace, number 1 pitcher that some claim him to be, (I think you have to be able to throw 7 or 8 innings once in a while to be an ace) he will step up and shut down the Cardinals. Thats his job, thats why we traded for him.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, I will gladly suffer...
…50 fanposts of BlueMike gloating if Harden can get this team back on track. Of course, I’d prefer if Lilly comes out throwing smoke tonight first.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, the cards splits against LHP
are much lower than against the RHP. Plus, Ted has good numbers versus the Cards: 4-2, 2.99 ERA in 8 starts (here).
At New Busch, he’s 2-0 with a 2.77 ERA in 4 starts.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's baseball....
everybody just needs to relax. The Cubs will be fine. They really will. They have been the best team in the Majors for the better part of the season. The things that happened last night, while extremely distressing are all a part of the game. It’s why we love it. I went to the game last night, and while I will admit to being very frustrated at the outcome and the proceedings, I still had a wonderful time. Everybody needs to take a deep cleansing breath and relax. They will be OK…..they are much too good not to be. For my part, I intend to enjoy the rest of the season, fly the Cubs flag proudly and hope that we go DEEP in the playoffs. Just my humble opinion. Go Cubs!
by MOCubsfan on Sep 10, 2008 10:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i definitely don't disagree with you...
…but the real frustrating thing is we keep saying and hearing things such as “they’ll be OK,” or “they’ll snap out of it,” or “they’re too good not to be OK” for so many days in a row now. I just hope they can right this ship soon, preferably starting TONIGHT.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go!
Hey Chicago what do you say,
The Cubs are gonna win today!
by revtrh on Sep 10, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only ray of sunshine
is that the Cubs are on Comcast the next 4 nights. 50-19 is a helluva a record and the only trend that is going our way.
Having Soto bunt with a 2-1 count was a huge mistake, IMO.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Sep 10, 2008 10:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I just noticed another reason...
…Lou may have asked Soto to bunt. Geo leads the team in strikeouts with 115. Next closest is DLee with 101.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True but a K there is still better than a DP
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Sep 10, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's true.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I predict...
…Pie gets a start tonight in CF.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
While I like your thinking
That won’t exactly get the offense going.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't disagree...
…but I believe Lou is going to send a message with something like this. And, you never know, sometimes over a short duration, certain guys can deliever.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he really wanted to send a message
He could put all the AAA and bench guys out there today. Hoff at first, Pie in center, Dome in right,mcgee at 3rd… you get the idea.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True...
…but thats a little over the top. I would look for both Dome and Pie to get a start tonight.
The Cubs are facing a RH pitcher tonight, correct?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah something as crazy and extreme won't happen
Pie starting wouldn’t shock me the more I think about it. I just looked at his end of AAA season and he was swinging a hot bat. His defense is second to none. Give him a shot.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe, maybe not.
Let’s give the kid a shot.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs