Baseball 101: Cubs 3, Cardinals 4
Lou Piniella got outmanaged last night, and I'm not real happy about that.
Answer this question: why would you, in the eighth inning of a tie game, have one of your best RBI men bunt? Maybe this question should be asked first, and don't look it up before you answer: how many sacrifice bunts did Geovany Soto have in his major league career before last night?
The answer is zero, and it's still zero after he bunted too hard and Ryan Franklin turned it into an easy double play, after Jim Edmonds had walked to lead off the inning and Felix Pie was sent in to pinch-run for him. Soto slammed the bat down in the dugout afterward (at least he didn't break any bones!); was that out of frustration at not being able to do the job, or disbelief that he was even asked? They couldn't believe it either in the Yahoo recap:
Top 8th: Chi Cubs
- J. Edmonds walked
- F. Pie ran for J. Edmonds
- G. Soto unknown into double play pitcher to shortstop to first, F. Pie out at second
- M. Fontenot grounded out to first
0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors
Chi Cubs 3, St. Louis 3
"Unknown into double play". Yeah, that about sums up the Cubs' 4-3 loss to the Cardinals. It wasn't just Soto's DP -- Alfonso Soriano also hit into one in the 9th -- but it was also failure to capitalize on other opportunities; the Cubs could have put the game away in the first inning with some timely hitting, and again in the sixth when they had the bases loaded and one out.
Ryan Dempster threw well enough -- it's no shame to give up a HR to Albert Pujols, many have done this -- and it wouldn't have mattered if the Cubs had scored the six or seven runs they should have scored last night.
The other criticism I have of Lou last night is: why didn't he walk Cesar Izturis? In a situation like that, you almost have to load the bases to set up force plays at every base. Yes, I am well aware that Skip Schumaker, who was on deck, is a far better hitter than Izturis. But if you induce Schumaker to hit the same grounder that Izturis hit -- only have the bases loaded instead of runners on second and third -- well then, all Soto has to do is step on the plate instead of try a desperate swipe tag. In that situation I think an IBB is mandatory, no matter who the hitter is.
Here's what Lou said:"We're playing like we're waiting to get beat," the Cubs manager said after Tuesday's 4-3 loss to the St. Louis Cardinals. "You don't have a big enough lead in September to play ball like that. Teams who play baseball like that invariably get caught, no matter how big the lead."
Yeah, that includes you too, Lou. I like Lou -- he's been a godsend to this team -- but last night wasn't his finest hour.
This is a strange month. There are 13 teams within five games of a playoff spot -- quite a large number for this late in the year -- and only five of them have winning September records:
Astros: 7-1 Dodgers: 7-1 Red Sox: 6-2 Mets: 5-2 Cardinals: 4-3 Angels: 4-4 Phillies: 4-4 White Sox: 3-5 Twins: 2-5 Rays: 2-6 D'backs: 2-6 Brewers: 2-7 Cubs: 1-6
Yes, only the bad play in Milwaukee has saved the Cubs from a horrid fate so far this month. Thank you for the second night in a row to the Reds, who came back and beat Milwaukee 5-4 in 11 innings after blowing a 4-1 lead. They'll play a day game today, with CC Sabathia on the mound for the Brewers, so the Cubs will know exactly how they need to do to reduce the magic number further before they take the field tonight in St. Louis.
I received an email from a friend last night, someone who is an occasional poster at this site, which read in its entirety:
Just shoot me now, it'll be less painful.
When I emailed him back to tell him I was going to post this -- and he can identify himself if he wants to, I won't -- he replied:
I still believe, but I'm taking Prilosec and buying a defibrillator off ebay.
I think we all need those. As ever, win tonight and the ship will begin to right itself.
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499 comments
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Comments
First
Yes, I couldn’t believe what I was seeing with Soto bunting, I was yelling at Lou through my TV.
by adam316 on Sep 10, 2008 8:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Lou....
found an old copy of the Don Baylor strategy manual.
by perseman on Sep 10, 2008 8:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's the only thing that would explain it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't believe they tried a bunt with Soto up...
I think the Cards were surprised too as they had a 1st pitch pitch out. You basically wasted a pinch runner in Pie… Why not try a straight seal or a hit and run. I thought it was ridiculous… and then the same thing happens in the 9th yet he doesn’t try to bunt with Sori? Why the double standard?
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
you have your fastest base runner on first, you have to let him steal 2nd and THEN maybe bunt him over to third. Plus, Soto looked like he was seeing the ball very well last night, let him take some rips up there. Lou is very frustrating at times when he does this stupid shit.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking hit and run, too.
I’ll give credit to Molina, so I didn’t think a straight steal was the best of ideas. But Soto can handle the bat, and since he was 2-for-3 coming in, why not let him swing? The hit and run puts more pressure on the defense, too, than does the sacrifice.
Oh well, hindsight is 20/20 I suppose. Gotta let this one go before tonight’s game.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the straight steal was taken away...
…by the fact that Ryan Franklin made FIVE pickoff throws plus a pitchout during Soto’s at-bat. He just did too good a job keeping Felix close. The hit and run was more than likely the best option.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When the count got to be 2-2...
a straight steal could have worked. The pitcher was probably going to throw it in a tough location. But like I said above a hit and run, I think would have been the proper move. If you don’t try that, then try the straight steal. The bunt was probably the worst move you could do there because Soto never has and he doesn’t have good speed, so anything less than a perfect bunt by him is probably a dp.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aluminum Bats: Death of the Bunt?
Because of aluminum bats in use in amateur baseball, bunts aren’t as common as they used to be. It’s harder to bunt with an aluminum bat than a wooden bat. It’s hard to expect professional players to be able to bunt when they haven’t done it very much at all in amateur ball.
Because the game is more offensively minded now than it was back in the 1980’s, managers don’t believe in giving up outs to move runners over nearly as often now. Why ask a hitter who can’t bunt to bunt?
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Sep 10, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy this excuse....
…if you have the talent to be a decent hitter, you certainly should be able to be a good bunter, because it is a hell of a lot easier.
The problem is this, no one spends the time on bunting skills and it really doesn’t eat up a lot of time to be a decent bunter. It’s attitude and a little practice, but few if any teams follow through on this.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this post reminds of of Sandberg’s HOF speech!
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go!
Hey Chicago what do you say,
The Cubs are gonna win today!
by revtrh on Sep 10, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am officially heading toward the ledge
I’ve managed to stay off it over the past week and a half, and remain optimistic, but two games in a row like that (even separated by an off-day) has just been too much. The only thing that is saving me from completely going over is the fact that the Brewers seem intent on matching the Cubs ineptitude.
by SuperContext on Sep 10, 2008 8:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This team is failing in every aspect right now.
Now even Marmol is blowing games. Yeah, I know it all comes down to timely hitting, but each loss is more painful than the last, and for different reasons. They are playing two hot teams right now. If they lose 4-5 out of six with the Cardinals and Astros, this team won’t even make the playoffs. The schedule is just too tough the rest of the way.
This is just not the team I’ve been watching all year.
by Mapmaker on Sep 10, 2008 8:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That wasn't Marmol's fault.
Well, partly it was for the balk, but I put that at least partly on Lou.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the balk was meaningless because Mármol walked the next batter.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 10, 2008 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True enough.
But I still don’t think it was “Marmol blowing the game”.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither do I. Actually, he pitched well.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 10, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is a one inning pitcher
He did his job, Lou should have replaced him in the 9th, not sure with who.
by JPetey on Sep 10, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is some evidence
that was brought up a while ago on this site that Marmol struggles in his second inning of work
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marmol couldn't have thrown more than 10 pitches in the 8th inning.
He was the right choice to start the 9th.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He threw exactly 10 in 8th
He just doesn’t seem to have the control he normally has after he rests in between innings
by JPetey on Sep 10, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outside of the walk....
He was okay.
The pitch location to Yadir was bad. You could tell he was trying to go the other way by the first foul…Should have pitched him inside
The swing checked swing bunt by Cesar was just luck.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marmol didnt pitch bad
The Cards executed perfectly to get the lead run on, moved over and across.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont agree
why pitch him til his arm falls off??
from the mouth of Uecker:
"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."
by cubsluver22 on Sep 10, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the loss was more of a team effort
Be he didn’t exactly get his job done
Molina singled to right.
Ryan pinch-running for Molina. On Marmol’s balk, Ryan to second.
Lopez walked on a full count. Barden pinch-hitting for Perez. Barden sacrificed, third baseman Ramirez to second baseman DeRosa, Ryan to third, Lopez to second.
Izturis safe on failed fielder’s choice, Ryan scored, Lopez to third.
by Mapmaker on Sep 10, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't be too sure they won't make it anyway
Starting tomorrow, the Phillies and Brewers play each other 4 times. Arroyo, the Reds hottest pitcher, starts against Sabathia today.
It’s not out of the realm of possibility that the Cubs could go 2-3 the rest of the trip and still see the magic number for the division reduced by 4 or 5. However, I’d bet that they win at least 3.
I think Piniella’s made some bad decisions this month, but I think the senile old man act is just that. The players have pride, too — now we’ll see how they respond.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're right
The funny thing is, I’m more worrieed about the Astros than anybody else. They’ve made miraculous runs in the past and they really took it to us the last series
by Mapmaker on Sep 10, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is amazing because of how banged up they are...
Hopefully, just as hot as they’ve been they hit their losing streak.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at what the Reds are doing to the Brewers
and I don’t recognize hardly anybody left on that team
by Mapmaker on Sep 10, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm interested to see how the Cubs respond this weekend to last week's sweep
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IIRC
this is the second time already this month that we have had reason to question Lou’s managerial decisions. He is having mental lapses under the pressure, just like our hitters are having lapses as well at the plate.
We will right this ship, we are too good of a team not to (despite recent play). Hopefully it will start tonight.
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 8:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And I also wonder
If Lou’s age is starting to show. I don’t remember him making such lousy decisions in close games earlier this season, or last year. Lately I am seriously wondering what in the hell Lou is thinking anymore.
by adam316 on Sep 10, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I wonder is whether this kind of decisions cost Seattle the title...
when Lou was the manager and they had the best record in baseball during the regular season. In a short series these decisions make you go home early. Like yanking your ace pitcher too early. Wait, that was last year in the playoffs, with the Cubs.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 10, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The weird thing is...
… that in the 2000 division series that Lou’s Mariners played vs. the White Sox, he outmanaged Jerry Manuel. OK, so maybe that isn’t that hard, but I hope Lou hasn’t forgotten how to do that in the 8 years since then.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he has. Hopefully.
FWIW, I think Lou generally outmanages LaRussa, just had some brain farts last night.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, they would have won had Zambrano stayed in?
IIRC, the Cubs scored 0 runs. Doesn’t matter who is pitching for you if you don’t score.
How’d the Reds do in 1990?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep the game close, especially if you haven't scored yet.
True, Lou does a good job most of the time, including with the Reds in the 1990 World Series. But a losing streak affects everyone’s psyche and the manager has to rise to the occassion. Lou didn’t have to face that situation in the 1990 postseason and I hope he doesn’t have to this year either.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 10, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do agree that he's made questionable moves
And I didn’t mean for my post to sound the way it does to me reading it again — but I don’t blame Lou for game 1 of the NLDS. I blame the offense — same as last night, actually.
The bunt with Soto was stupid, but it never should have come to that.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
And don’t worry. There was nothing wrong with your post. I think we both agree that a manager’s talent is more important when a team is struggling.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 10, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou should have pulled Z
for a pinch hitter in that game. He let him hit, then put Marmol in the next inning anyway, I still can’t figure that one out.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spot on with the comments on the bunting
Lou is having a bad month, too. Maybe he should visit Eagle River for a few days to clear his head.
I keed, I keed.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ways to get into the 2nd season
You can
Hold serve and get what you earned all season
Play your way in
Back in
Just get in !!!
Thank god for not loosing major ground
I've been bleeding double blue Cubbies & NY Rangers
by parrotinct on Sep 10, 2008 8:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The logical thing to do in the Soto Situation
Was to try the Hit and Run. It would have gotten the infield moving around and if Soto swings and misses, Pie has enough speed to swipe the bag…
While the bunt was stupid, it was even more stupid to leave the bunt call on when the count got to 2-1. It was the perfect pitch to hit and run.
They are playing scared and now Lou has cracked in the Media. The rant he went on to the Media should have been said in the clubhouse to the team and not to the general public…
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 8:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tend to agree...
…I would have liked to see a hit & run (or even a run & hit) on the 2-1 count. When a team is struggling offensively, sometimes you need to push the envelope and make something happen.
The club is very tight right now (no shit, huh?) and like Lou said last night, you need to keep being aggressive and the bunt was just the opposite.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they threw 5 pick off attempts during Soto's AB
Maybe Lou’s lack of trust in Pie played a role in it.
by JPetey on Sep 10, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was listening to the game on the radio on my patio....
…The bunt attempt by Soto was so dumbfounding that I ran inside to see the replay on TV so that I could actually try and believe that it really happened.
I mean I am still nearly speechless Lou had Soto attempt to bunt in that or ANY situation
Lou can get angry all he wants, last night he was just as culpable as the players
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Sep 10, 2008 8:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lou
Never sensed he was a rocket scientist from the begining.
Prehaps he and Soriano should of drove back to the team hotel together
I've been bleeding double blue Cubbies & NY Rangers
by parrotinct on Sep 10, 2008 8:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A loud standing ovation to you, Al.
Lou underestimated Izturis and lost the game as a result. Lou was playing for a one road lead on the road. Bunting with the hitter of the month? Are you sure Dusty stayed with the Reds this week?
When a team is struggling, the manager’s role is more important than ever. Put the team in a posiyion to win. If they don’t, then the manager is in a position to scold them. Otherwise, zip it, Lou.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 10, 2008 8:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Missed opportunities for sure
It was great you posted the Sept. records of NL contenders, because I was just thinking how it seemed that most of them (outside of HOU and LAD) were playing mediocre to downright awful baseball in September. Last night’s missed opportunities could be applied to the team’s record a as whole – we could be 7-8 games up right now and sitting pretty.
Right now Houston is probably the best team in the division based on the way they are playing and confidence. If they take care of the Cubs this weekend it is not unrealistic that they could pass us – and pass the Brewers too!
And I’m less furious about whether or not Soto was asked to bunt – how about being furious that the players are not executing offensively? STL executed, we did not. We did not start runners and hit into 2 deflating GIDP. Other than a few decent outings by starters during this streak (Dempster, Marshall, Marquis) every other part of the team is not functioning.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Sep 10, 2008 8:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
keep in mind
3 out of STL’s 4 runs came from a HR. The 4th was a lucky half-bunt.
Our three runs came from driving baserunners in.
It’s not as clear as you make it out to be.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al i am thinking...
you need to change the pregame thread around a little – do something that might change the mojo. Or even change the magic number – no dont eliminate it but rather put it upside down or something.
Sorry i am superstitious.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Sep 10, 2008 8:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, so am I.
Let me see what I can work on for the pregame thread this afternoon.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
mag #
get rid of the number and just put the random person’s name…those who want to look can figure it out.. ??!?!?
I'm a reader not a poster, but I'm also a poster so don't get any ideas.
by cozmotaylor123 on Sep 10, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeabutt....
the magic number continues to go down…that hasnt been the problem.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Sep 10, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good idea - post it upside down until we win 2 in a row
Just so we all know things are still ‘not right’ – not by a longshot…
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here they are
Playoffs: 11
Division: 14
McCain / Palin: The POW / WOW! Ticket
by Goat Whisperer on Sep 10, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Took this picture at a football game a couple weeks ago...
It was funny at the time… now, not so much…

by hokie316 on Sep 10, 2008 8:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
was that where the line formed
following the East Carolina game?
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much...
although ECU seems to be on their way to having a great season. VT will struggle this year, and I think I knew that going in… just didn’t want to admit it to myself.
by hokie316 on Sep 10, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's ok.
the entire conference is down this year. As a BC alum, it was tough to watch us blow a 6-point lead at home on Saturday.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't that loss to another ACC team?
Just sayin’…
by Clutch16 on Sep 10, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, to the triple-option Georgia Tech team.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al I agree 100%.
Lou looks like he is sitting around waiting to lose/
by Rick B on Sep 10, 2008 8:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dick Jauron of baseball?
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson
by MikeOxbyg on Sep 10, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excuse my baseball ignorance but....
Would it have been wrong to walk Pujols before his HR? I know it loads the bases at that point but I would rather face anyone on the Cards other than Pujols.
Also, I would much rather watch the garbage now instead of in a few weeks. At least we have time to right the ship.
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson
by MikeOxbyg on Sep 10, 2008 8:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In that situation...
…I think most managers would have pitched to Pujols.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe if it's the 8th or 9th you walk Pujols...
… not in the 6th with a 3-0 lead.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct
n/t
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUT
That pitch was a little too good to start the at bat. IMHO.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats on Dempster
n/t
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
If anything, I would have been throwing low and away. Less likely to yoke something out of the park.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As you can clearly see on the replay
Soto is looking for the ball down in the zone and Dempster got it up in Al’s wheelhouse.
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
by DKT on Sep 10, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there are 3 people in MLB that...
i would walk WITH THE BASES LOADED if i were a Cub:
1. Albert Pujols
2. Carlos Lee
3. Adam Dunn
Yes if it was a tie game i still would walk them with the bases loaded.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Sep 10, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still when Pjols came up my first instinct was "Walk Him Now!"
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson
by MikeOxbyg on Sep 10, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1,000,000,000
Why oh Why do you give HIM a chance
AT LEAST PITCH AROUND HIM
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Dempster was trying to do that.
He got a pitch up and out over the plate that was probably supposed to be high and outside. It happens.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that has NEVER happened in my wiffle ball games!
I hope you see the sarcasm in that reply
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Yes. We need a little laughter today.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A few "Caddyshack" lines might do wonders today.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HEY LAMA!
“Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know.” And he says, “Oh, uh, there won’t be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness.” So I got that goin’ for me, which is nice.
Thought that would be apropos (i think that is the right spelling)
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Sep 10, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SIT DOWN DANNY!
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's easy to grin,
When your ship comes in,
And you feel you’ve got the market beat.
But it’s the man who can smile
While all of the while
His shorts are to tight in the seat!
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh Ha ahh hahahaha...
ok Pookie do the honors!
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't just stand there - get some glue!
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Angie! Pick up that blood!
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE! (#13031 on the Cubs season ticket waiting list...)
by Zeke on Sep 10, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You owe me one gum ball machine.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I bet you were really something before electricity!
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE! (#13031 on the Cubs season ticket waiting list...)
by Zeke on Sep 10, 2008 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's that sign say?
No betting.
What’s THAT sign say???
No fighting.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE! (#13031 on the Cubs season ticket waiting list...)
by Zeke on Sep 10, 2008 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I turned to a Cardinal fan sitting next to me and said...
can we just put him on first…..bring the runner in from third and move the man on first to third and be done with it? He actually agreed with that….for about a second….then he turned to me and said, well…..maybe not.
by MOCubsfan on Sep 10, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remain calm
All is well. Cubs have gone 1-8, and have knocked 5 games off the MN. Go to the Brewers page and read some of the comments there. Not worried. Not worried at all (he says, rocking back and forth and twitching…)
"Don't worry, Joey. We'll go next year. They're in the World Series all the time" ---My grandfather to my sick father, October 10, 1945
by flyingdonut on Sep 10, 2008 8:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
was at the game
last night and you could fill it in the park that they were going to lose when Pie/Soto were in the double play…
Cardinal fans sure get mouthy after they win….hoping for a better outcome tonight.
Did you know Mark DeRosa wears Mark Texieras glove in RF??
I'm a reader not a poster, but I'm also a poster so don't get any ideas.
by cozmotaylor123 on Sep 10, 2008 8:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dont forget about Soto rounding third
He stopped before or on the base.
If he held up as he rounded 3rd and Quade is good position to see left field, Soto scores easily the way that ball got by Ankiel
Little things again cost a run
What was Soriano with men on 3rd last night 0-2 or 0-3
I've been bleeding double blue Cubbies & NY Rangers
by parrotinct on Sep 10, 2008 8:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Quade read ticked me off too...
His reads have been AWFUL the last quarter of the year.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was the play that had me muttering to myself...
“Uh oh, here we go again.” On the surface, I completely agree with the decision to hold Soto at 3rd—not the fastest runner, good arm in LF, Soriano due up—but it struck me as kind of passively waiting for something good to happen instead of going out and making it happen.
You’re up 3-0. Put the pressure on Ankiel to make a play, and maybe he’ll do exactly what he did… misplay the ball and allow the run to score easily.
by hokie316 on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had to hold him
Soto was just at the bag when Ankiel “Should Have” fielded the ball. He would have been out by a mile and then we would have all heard about him getting Soto gunned down at the plate before Alf.
What was wrong about the play was that Soto stopped….He should have aggresively rounded the bag and forced ankiel to throw the ball. That way, when Ankiel did miss play it he did not have to try to restart.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I noticed that too. Bad base running.
Even when the coach stops you, you round the bag unless the coach tells you to slide.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 10, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a general rule...
…the Cub’s baserunning this year has been less than stellar. Some of it has been Quade making some bad calls, but some players have also fallen asleep when they needed to pick up the ball themselves.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That play KILLED me - he should have started running again
He CLEARLY looked back and saw the guy misplay the ball. ARGH!!!
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He should have rounded the bag Agressively...
He stopped…He is a catcher…He is slow…the ball did not get that far away…He would have been out by a mile if he tried to restart.
Force the throw home by rounding the bag…bad base running not a bad stop by quade.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1....That was on Geo, he assumed Ankiel would make a clean play
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Sep 10, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never, never, never
assume an outfielder is going to field the ball cleanly, never.
When an OF has to field the ball (in anticipation of a play at the plate), you see them rush and juggle the ball often and they blew a gift run.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus Ankel Lets to show off his Arm
He is not going to throw it in a way that is going to allow it to be cut off and snipe Soto at Third.
Round the bag and force the throw.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a Cards fan
But would like to see the Cubs in the playoffs instead of the BrewCrew. I’m not sour grapes.
But, I’ll say if Soto ran on Ankiel, he’d get gunned. Ankiel might be injured but he’s got a good arm. See throwing Taveras out at 3rd from the wall on one hop earlier this year.
by rencelas on Sep 10, 2008 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But...
Did Soto score?
No – so even if he gets gunned (which i dont think he would have), at least you were aggressive.
Speaking about Cards/Brewers – i attended Saint Louis University and i have to say i appreciate Cardinal fans alot more than Brewer fans, and it shows when posters such as yourself come over here and talk like a normal person with the intent of talking baseball and not starting crap.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Sep 10, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah the key is
Soto didnt take off from second with a real intention of scoring and Quade definitely didnt intend on sending him. The real shocker is Soriano not coming thru with some timely hitting.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soto need to round the bag aggresively and force the throw
If he would have did that, he would have scored as soon as Ankiel booted the ball. Once he stopped, there was no way he was going to score.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have to be carefull with rounding too much
Ankiel could’ve thrown behind Soto at 3rd, assuming he fields cleanly and Soto rounds 3rd aggressively
by JPetey on Sep 10, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
But it would be tough for Ankiel as a Left Hander with his mometum going forward to throw across his body. The worry you have is if somebody cuts it off…then you might have problem. However, Ankiel likes to show off his arm so I doubt it could have been cutoff
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quade holding Soto was the right thing
to do. The ball was at Ankiel as Geo was about to hit the bag, he would have been dead by 30 feet if he’s sent. The part that sucked is that Ankiel misplayed it, so you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is why...
…you need to round the bag aggresivelly, so you are prepared for the misplay in the OF.
If you watch a 3rd base coach, he will either point at the 3rd base bag when a runner is approaching him – this means don’t round the bag, stay right on it. You do that if the ball is coming in quickly. He will give him the hold up sign without pointing at the bag, this means to go ahead and stay alert and round the bag.
Bottom line, once the ball was bobbled, he should have been prepared to score.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have said it many times...See Above
Quade putting the stop sign up was correct. What was wrong was that Soto did not round the bag…he let up before he got to the bag and basically stopped. If he rounds the bag aggresively then as soon as Ankiel mis plays the ball then he can wave Soto on…
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soto should have
at least rounded the bag aggressively, so that he had the chance to score if Ankiel booted the play. Soto stopped at the bag and did not round it at all.
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with all of you
Soto didn’t run to 3rd properly, aggressively, and it cost us.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there was no way to know Ankiel was going to overrun that ball.
it was too shallow to send him. Be upset that he didn’t score, but not because of that play.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't know...
…but you have to be in position to go if he does overrun or bobble the ball. That is baserunning 101 and between Quade and or Soto, someone was asleep at the wheel.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soto
isn’t Pie. He can’t stop or start on a dime. He’d already decided he was stopping at third when the ball was hit. Call it on Soto, but it’s not Quade’s fault.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drew...
I think we have all exonarated Quade on this…it was bad base running by Soto.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he would have been
safe without a throw??
I'm a reader not a poster, but I'm also a poster so don't get any ideas.
by cozmotaylor123 on Sep 10, 2008 8:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
TLR didnt bunt
with Lopez at the plate, while Len and Bob thought he should have, and it paid off when he drew a walk and was eventually moved over on the bunt by the next guy. Things just didnt go our way, the hit, the balk, then the walk to Lopez, the perfect bunt by that Braden guy and Izturis getting a piece on the check swing….even the play at the plate was close. Just not our night.
If we weren’t in the middle of this long losing slump I would be ok saying we just got beat.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 8:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Too many missed opportunities to tack on runs
If anything is cause for concern, it would be that (for me, anyway), because that’s not a new phenomenon to this team.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They showed a stat
during last night’s game showing teh Cubs as 3 for 9 w/ RISP, while the Cards were 2 for 3 (at that particular point in the game).
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 for 9 is obviously good on the surface
And I wasn’t able to closely follow much of the early innings — but how did they do with moving runners up or really cashing in scoring opportunities?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, 3 for 9 is usually good enough
one of the three hits was Dempster’s on which Soto couldn’t have scored. The other two hits came in the first three innings and were by Ramirez to score Theriot both times. After that, the Cubs did nothing with RISP, and were not particularly good moving runners up either (see Soto bunt into DP and Soriano grounding into DP)
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep; we're on the same page
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they haven't been
doing much in a while
After that, the Cubs did nothing with RISP, and were not particularly good moving runners up either
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The first inning killed
Even though the scored 2 runs, Lohse struck out the side. Being Lohse is a non strike out pitcher, that really sucked.
They also failed to see that the cardinals were pitching them away. They tried to jerk everything.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing's for sure
The Brewers WILL win today with Sabathia going. Maybe the threat of seeing the lead go to 3.5 will be what this team needs. Or maybe that will make them play even worse. We’ll see.
by bms on Sep 10, 2008 8:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the Reds are going to play the game, anyway
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not trying to be snarky
But there are no guarantees
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course not
But it feels like a sure thing, and I will be ecstatic if I’m wrong.
by bms on Sep 10, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fearless Prediction
Reds 16
Brewers 2
C.C. gets pulled in the top of the 2ND after giving up 9 earned runs and 3 HR’s including a grandiosa by Corey Patterson that lands in the second deck in right field.
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
by DKT on Sep 10, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dark Helmet would call this
a Ludicrous Prediction! LOL
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is well
past ridiculous!
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was fun to type
even if it won’t really happen…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
by DKT on Sep 10, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smoke if ya got 'em.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have a great shot
But it’s never a sure thing
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
by carolinacub on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sabathia's bound to lose SOMETIME.
Right?
Why not today?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arroyo is the hottest Reds pitcher right now
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he was pitching against us,
I would feel a lot better about his chances. He seems to lock us down everytime he pitches against us.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately that list is growing larger by the day!
Brett Myers, Wolf, Arroyo, that girl from bad news bears, that dude in bench warmers, on and on and on
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amanda Whurlizer...
would dominate the NL.
by hokie316 on Sep 10, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget Eddie Harris and his famous
Vaseline ball.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, if we're going to be superstitious, look at it this way
Sabathia has been nearly lights-out. If, counter to almost every instinct, he loses today, the magic number goes to 13 . . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Arroyo's slop...
…is on like is was against the Cubs, the Brewers will struggle to score runs. They are a pure fastball hitting club and Arroyo can drive you nuts with his slow stuff.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
He should have a picture of a garbage truck on his jersey instead of a “C”.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly....
…and Ned is going to make sure that his arm is going to fall out of his socket sooner than later.
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Sep 10, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now I know what it must feel like to be a junky
I keep thinking that, for my own sanity, I need to take a few days and just stop watching and hope for the best. Problem is I find myself almost involuntarily flipping over to the game just to see if, finally, they might be starting to come out of it.
These last several games have been so painful and frustrating that I finally think I’m starting to understand what fans went through in 1969. They really are hard to watch right now-it’s like I sit there expecting something bad to happen and the only question is how bad it’s going to be.
by bluekoolaide on Sep 10, 2008 8:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Let us all come up with ways to avoid watching for the next few days!
Seriously, I keeping getting drawn in, like a damn train wreck
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me, too
I’m in the “distance yourself” mode with this team. It hurts too much to be into every game, so I’m keeping an eye on them, but I’m doing other things. It’s rough. I haven’t even been posting here lately. Just holding it at arm’s length right now.
Damn they better win this thing.
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Sep 10, 2008 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Lou's tirade...
…last night and here is why; Lou has been through this as both a player and a manager and that is something most of his counterparts can’t say. He knows what it feels like (as a player) to be in pressure packed pennant races and needing to deliver when it matters. In fact, when the Yankees were going good in the 70’s, Piniella was regarded as one of the guys a pitcher didn’t want to face in a clutch base hit situation.
Sometimes when the lugnuts are coming loose, you have to get a little pissed at yourself and play the game with a higher purpose. After 8 of 9 losses, I think this is what he is trying to instill.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I found a a little disturbing about Lou's rant...
…was his tone of voice. He didn’t just sound angry; he sounded a little sad and desperate, too. I should note that I heard the rant on the radio, so I didn’t see his facial expressions. But, based only on his tone of voice, he sounded like he was on the verge of tears rather than venting the all-out rage we’ve seen Lou unleash on the media now and then.
I do agree with Al, though. I would also say to Lou, “Physician, heal thyself.” STOP asking RBI guys to bunt – did he learn nothing from DeRosa’s ill-advised bunt attempt a few days ago?
On the other hand, I think the question of whether he should’ve walked Izturis is debatable. If you pitch to Cesar, any weakly hit ball wins the game – and what better does Cesar Izturis do than hit balls weakly? Then again, Carlos Marmol had already walked a guy that inning, and we all know how Carlos can get wild in pressure situations, so I can’t completely hold Lou at fault for not putting Izturis on.
Still, I agree that Lou could have done better, and I’m a little worried about his mental state as well.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
…that was Lou’s typical “I am pissed off tone”.
Anyway, the Izturis situation is debatable. I for one would have walked him. Lou was probably hoping for a K, but Izturis certainly has the capability to hit a weak grounder, which is exactly what he did.
I just like the bases loaded option of being able to get the force at home (much easier than applying the tag). It puts more pressure on your pitcher, but that is why he is out there in that situation.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too Tight
I think they are playing tight. Everyone looks pensive out there. Somebody needs to loosen them up.. with Lou and Tramell… it will need to be a player… but even Dempster is looking tight
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Sep 10, 2008 8:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, Dempster was visibly frustrated...
…after giving up the home run to Pujols. But he still gave the team a quality start last night. You really can’t ask for more than that. Run production was – and is – the problem.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that and the team ERA of 6.29 in September...
..but your right in the sense that Dempster was not the problem last night.
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Sep 10, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tonight poses more trouble for offense
Looper has 2.40 ERA against Cubs in nearly 80 innings. Lilly needs to keep the ball in the yard
by BeltwayCubsFan on Sep 10, 2008 8:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
are you saying there is a pitcher who can stop the Cubs offensive attack?
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We've been lucky so far.
Despite a week and a half of losses we’ve kept the same lead and have shaved 6 games off the magic number to win the division. That’s why this collapse, as horrible as it is, has been tolerable. Let’s just not play like that in the postseason.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 10, 2008 8:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If they do, it won't be for as long as this has been . . . .
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 10, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is past time
to shuffle the line up. Free Geo! No bunting; move him up in the order. Who to move down? You decide.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will
by Slakkr on Sep 10, 2008 8:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
fixed it for you.
YouLOU decides.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can criticize the managing all we want...
But the problem is plain and simple: WE CAN’T HIT. In the last 10 games, when this skid started, we’ve scored more than 3 runs TWICE. It is absolutely maddening how top to bottom, our lineup has great statistics and leads the league in runs scored, yet can’t score. It makes me want to pull my hair out. If this continues, one and done, my friends.
further, why don’t we run more? with the maddening amount of DPs this team hits into, surely we can get the runners in motion more, right? Especially with Pie on first in the 8th last night…why pinch run if you won’t use it to your advantage?
by reedjohnson on Sep 10, 2008 8:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It does seem like
a long time since the last double steal. One of the reasons this team was so fun to watch early is because they were aggressive. Executing hit and runs with ease, stealing bases, etc. They need to get back to that because this station to station ball they have been playing recently doesn’t seem to be working.
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Add to that...
The huge strike zone the umps are calling on the Cub hitters lately.
Last night had its fair share of outside pitches being called strikes (on Lee and others)! It is a little concerning that our guys are taking pitches right down the middle and swinging at many pitches that are outside the zone. Seems to me if they pitch you outside, then go to opposite field with the pitch.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Sep 10, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
that outside corner was frigging huge. Molina was catching pitches in the other batter’s box and they were strikes. The K that Lee had early in the game was atrocious.
I felt going into this series that if we win last night, we take 2 of three and if we lose we probably get swept. I hope I am wrong. The Cards are playing looser than we are and can be spoilers. Very dangerous. They may spoil themselves back into the division race.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I don't get
is why the Cubs pitchers don’t take advantage of an enlarged strike zone, such as last nights. I don’t remember seeing Dempster trying to stretch the outside corner when he was pitching.
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think Molina bitching at the ump helped?
In one of his early ab’s he stepped out 3 times on a strike call talking to the ump. I thought he was going to get tossed but the ump took it. I thought it was going to be counter productive for the Cards the rest of the game but it wasn’t. Could it have possibly helped?
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't tell you
But I sure hope it didn’t help. I thought Molina was going to be tossed as well.
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seemed like after that incident is when the liberal corner started.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree.
DLee got totally hosed on an outside pitch in the seventh.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
…but by the 7th inning, the light bulb needs to go off telling you to protect with 2 strikes on the pitch he has called all night.
In about the 3rd or 4th, he called an outside strike on Molina and it looked to be 6 inches outside and he did the same with Ramirez.
Lee is a veteran, and he needs to know better than to ignore what has developed the entire game in regards to the strikezone. I’d almost guarantee, that Perry kept reminding everyone the ump is giving the pitcher several inches off the plate and its up to the player to have that sink in.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or at least get people to go the other way
Lee getting pitched away away away and he’s STILL trying to pull everything. Soriano too. Drives me nuts when people excuse well paid players by saying they are ‘paid to drive runs in’. Hitting a ball to the right side rather than the left or not taking a third strike with a guy on 3rd and <2 outs is all about scoring and winning. Shouldn’t single those 2 out, but they come to mind.
by JCD on Sep 10, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree...
…and that is up to the players to get that done.
The Cubs only have 2 guys who consistanly use the entire field – Ramirez and Theriot. When Soto thinks right center, he is a monster and I can see him being the 4 or 5 hitter by 09 without question.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Sori and Lee have totally forgotten to go with the pitch for the most part. Sori did go the other way with the bases juiced and ALMOST got it.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That probably had more to do with the fact that he was late on his swing
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Today is THE DAY
CC get’s rocked! I know it doesnt happen very often but he is way over due.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
After posting this I went to look at his game log
WOW – Since the Brewers got him, the team has only lost one of his starts. Know which one? His stat line since joining them is plain ridiculous.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be in one of Teddy Lilly's good starts.
First game of the 4-game sweep, IIRC.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm freaking out here
A lady at work asked me rather innocently how the Cubs are doing and I almost ripped her face off!!! I can’t take it anymore. I think i’m going to have to stop following the Cubs as close as I have been this year. It’s ruining my life. Somebody hold me!!
Seriously, I knew Pujols was going to hit a HR in the 6th as soon as the first 2 got on. I said to my roommate, “Watch this HR he’s about to hit” and boom, there it went. I might have jinxed Dempster.
I just want to start winning again.
by McRipper on Sep 10, 2008 9:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
this is insane!
we are all (most of us) losing it over this. Please let us all not watch tonight. LET"S BAN THE CUBS for one night. Let us do it. We all agree to check the scoreboard on mlb.com at 10:30 tonight. Deal. Cmon guys. Let us not ruin our nights, relationships, everything over a bunch of guys who can’t help themselves right now. I’m serious.
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you
tonight’s game isn’t on WGN so I couldn’t watch it anyway, but I promise not to follow it on mlb.com at all.
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same thing tonight...
We are all scrutinizing every little play in the game. I think I will just check the score at 10:30 and not have to worry and agonize if they do drop another on a silly play.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll think about it.
I must admit, this might be just crazy enough to work.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What else is on TV tonight?
I’ll think about it, but I’d much rather yell at Tony LaRussa than watch ‘Criminal Minds.’ Though ‘Greatest American Dog’ might get my attention…
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a hell of a lot of laundry to put away.
Problem is, I’m going to be tempted to turn on Pat & Ron. Does listening to the radio broadcast count?
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say just change the method in which you follow the game.
Go from TV to radio, or to Gameday, or something like that.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was listening to Pat & Ron last Saturday in my garage (engine NOT running)
rather that listening in my house to the usual XM broadcast . We live just far enough away to not get WGN radio in the house, but I can get a so-so signal on my van radio when parked in the garage.
Sooooo, that’s what I’m going to try again tonight.
Here’s hoping.
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE! (#13031 on the Cubs season ticket waiting list...)
by Zeke on Sep 10, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I spend way too much time here b/c I remember discussing that w/ you
"A catchers biggest concern behind the plate is to make his pitcher pitch a little better than he can" Roy Campanella
by Madison Cub Fan on Sep 10, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ditto. A rather sad commentary on our infliction, don't you think? ;)
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE! (#13031 on the Cubs season ticket waiting list...)
by Zeke on Sep 10, 2008 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps tonight is a good night to catch up on the last two episodes of the Shield...
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Sep 10, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give it a shot.
I have errands to run tomorrow anyway.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know what you mean
I’m very defensive lately and I can’t seem to keep my head up, it’s like I’m constantly staring at the ground. Then when people ask about the Cubs I just start nodding from side to side as if to just say NO. Dont go there.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wore a cubs shirt the other day
and was asked by two random people what the cubs problem was.
seriously?
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on Sep 10, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BAN THE CUBS FOR ONE NIGHT
FOR ALL OUR SANITY. CMON SANTOSWOODENLEGS, MAKE THIS HAPPEN
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 9:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
but what if they win?
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on Sep 10, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then we BAN THE CUBS THE NEXT NIGHT obviously
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's the idea.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
so if they lose a game and you ARENT watching would atribute their success to your not watching and then continue to not watch?
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on Sep 10, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I'd just go back to watching again.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The worst part about the Cub losing streak
Is that I refuse to watch sportscenter or read the newspaper box scores when they lose because I want no reminder of the loss. I have no idea what is going on in the world of sports since the losing streak started – I thought someone said something about the NFL season starting.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Sep 10, 2008 9:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm doing the same thing
I’m not watching SportCenter or reading any sport websites except BCB
"Destiny is a matter of choice, not chance"
by MerlinDog on Sep 10, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I watched some sort of Law and Order after the game last night just to avoid a reminder of the game
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone else
remember a time when it seems so many teams are struggling to seal the deal. Its almost like a bizzaro world where you have to lose to get in.
Let go cubs
by cubsfaninkc on Sep 10, 2008 9:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
except for the Angels
pretty sure they’ve sealed the deal… how terrible is the AL west.
by cubbiefanTN on Sep 10, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even the Angels are struggling...
… playing .500 ball this month.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It could be worse, The loser of the AL
Central won’t make the playoff. At least we can control our own destiny and get the wild card.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would bet...
that their september callups are getting the majority of the playing time, however i have no evidence/research to prove this.
by cubbiefanTN on Sep 10, 2008 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ithink it would be great if Pat Hughes
broke into Harry Doyle at the end of a game –
"The post-game show is brought to you by…
[searches through his papers]
Christ, I can’t find it. To hell with it. "
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 9:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
My own recap
1. Demp pitched great but was too confident that he could Pujols out. He HAS to walk him or give him ABSOLUTELY nothing to hit.
2. Agree with Al, you HAVE to walk Izturis… I’m no baseball genious but I DO know that having force outs on ALL bases is the key to getting out jammed.
I’m so frustrated….. I was thinking at the top of the 6th about posting today that Demp is the Cubs true ACE of the staff and then he just went out there and GAVE pujols a HR.
And the offense NEEDS to produce more runs… I put the loss squarely on their shoulders!!!
by cubbiefanTN on Sep 10, 2008 9:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This reminds me of the 89 playoffs
Where, after basically brilliant managing the entire season, the whole thing came FLYING off the rails once we hit October. Now it’s happening in September.
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 9:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
well, Will Clark was a pretty big impediment to that '89 train...
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs...
…either had really bad scouting reports on Clark or their pitchers completely clammed up against him. I watched him launch those same pitches into the twilight zone in college, and he did the same to the Cubs.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't the tale that he read Maddux's lips in Game 1
just before his grand slam? I don’t remember much about the game (it was my first Cubs game at Wrigley), but I remember Sandberg’s homer and Clark’s slam.
The crazy part is, for as good as Clark was, Grace hit over .500 in the series, too, if I’m not mistaken.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know...
…but Will Clark had exceptional plate coverage as a hitter and his sweet spot was exactly where Cub pitchers threw him most of that series.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grace was .647 / .682 / 1.118 to Clarks .650 / .682 /1.200
Amazingly similar numbers….
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Sep 10, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Were You With the 85 Bulldogs?
Did you play with Clark, Palmeiro, Brantley, Thigpen, and Gene Morgan?
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Sep 10, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gone just before that...
…but Clark, Palmeiro, Brantley and Thigpen were on the teams I played on.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
After all this, it will come down to head to head against the Brewers.
But here’s a little “light” concerning the wild card. If , and I know it’s a big if lately. If, the Cubs can play .500 ball the rest of the way, Philadelphia and St. Louis would have to go undefeated the rest of the way to pass us.
by Rick B on Sep 10, 2008 9:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The bunt was not an ISOLATED bad move.
I know I have been A. A broken record B. Beating a dead horse ( choose your graphic) since APRIL that Lou is a BAD manager. Everyone ( well almost everyone) made fun of me because he could not possibly be a bad manager if the team had the best record in baseball but they had the best record in baseball because they had great players especially starting pitching. When Lou has to make a serious (as in anyone but Marmol or Wood ) pitching change he usually screws it up and the same with the bench. His nearly psychotic obsession with righty/lefty match ups and his only “trusting” certain players has lead to a number of losses. Dusty’s greatest asset was making EVERY player feel like he was a great contributor to the team, Lou thinks making everyone of them terrified of being in his dog house works better. No I don’t think Lou is as bad as Dusty but he does have a MUCH better team to work with. The thing which continues to terrify me is that while I fully expect the Cubs hitting to come alive and the pitching to get back to its normal excellent standards, I don’t think Lou will change and I don’t want to see Howry coming with a 2 run lead in the NLDS or pinch hitting Ward for Lee in a tie WS game. We often worried with Dusty that the inmates were running the asylum , well with Lou the despot is crushing the life out of the team.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 10, 2008 9:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"Dusty’s greatest asset was making EVERY player feel like he was a great contributor to the team"
If by “every player” you mean Neifi Perez, I totally agree. Otherwise, I have to say no way. Dusty obviously didn’t play/trust his younger options. He had his horses, remember? At least Lou plays with anyone he thinks gives us a chance, whether you’re a rookie or veteran, a miillionaire or a bum out of AA.
That said, Lou isn’t perfect for sure. Last night proves this.
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Sep 10, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Lou plays and overplays "his guys"
So Marmol waits for his arm to fall off and Howry blows games and Eyre and Lieber who if handled correctly might actually have worked are dumped. Same with the bench.
The 03 team performed WAY above expectations for that roster. It was not NEARLY as good a team as this one re personal. Lou got guys like Karros, Glanville, Simon to be major contributors and career years from Grudz and Borowski among others. Yes taken to it’s extreme it led to the Neffi and Hawkins disasters but if Lou might actually make players feel like ALL of them contribute instead of = making them think they are one game away from being shipped to the minors or the Nats, it might HELP. His in game decision making is not better than Dusty’s and there is no way this roster is not MUCH better than 03. The trick is NOT TO BLOW IT with his overmanaging.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 10, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Lou the despot"?
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I look at it this way...
…if your team is going to win the World Series, they are going to have to show character and come through when the going gets tough. If Lou challenging them is going to cause them to fold, I would argue they won’t win anything anyway.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So that is why Francona has two WS rings ?
Francona has managed to effectively instill in his players a sense they are needed, wanted and useful
without making them feel like their next strike out or walk will get them in his doghouse. There was a time when Lou’s “old school” managing worked but not here and not now. He should be calming things down not freaking out. As I have pointed out again and again since April, I am not a ledge jumper and I think we have truly great team but Lou is doing more harm than good.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 10, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point is this...
…managers of different styles have won world series. Even Dusty was within outs of a championship and has taken numerous teams to the playoffs. Teams end up winning because of their players first and their manager second and if his comments last night derail there chances, I think they would have folded up under pressure regardless of who is managing.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really care about last nights comments
My obsession has from the start been his mind boggling in game decisions and his extremely uneven treatment of players. Last night was just a minor example in both the bunt decision and the tirade but this as always goes back to that Phillies series I saw in April and much of what has happened since.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 10, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would have guessed zero on # of Geo bunts
which is why I screamed at the TV, spilling some of my Old Style. The wife is asking why of course (the louder screaming instead of just normally loud) and my reply is, “he’s bunting with one of his best RBI guys, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!”
A bit too many bad moves coupled with a bit too many times of not making the play. That all adds up to 1-8 in their last 9.
The Cubs have precisely played .500 ball the last 20 games and the Brewers have gained one game in the “L” column. That’s the only positive spin I could put on any of this right now. I go back 20 games since it also included the 7 game winning streak right before this 9-game funk.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Sep 10, 2008 9:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the bunt
Perhaps I’m the only person who sees no problem with it. This team cannot score runs. It grounds into DPs almost at the opponents will in big situations. I have no problem with the manager trying to manufacture a run. I don’t care if its Soto, Soriano, Theriot or whoever. How may times have I heard Cub fans complain that the manager refused to have his big bat bunt over a hitter. It was late in the game and this team is not scoring runs.
Chalk another game up to the Cubs unable to score the runs the opponent was trying to give them. Like Sunday, the Cubs should have had 6 or 7 runs late in the game. Finally Len Kasper pointed this out during the middle of the game.
DmL
by dmlichte on Sep 10, 2008 9:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that you can't assume that if you try to bunt, you
will be successful. The result of that play proved it. You have to look at the situation and the player and determine if he has a better chance of succeeding if he attempts a bunt or he swings away. Mqnqgers always talk about giving a player the best chance at being successful. The fact that Geo had never executed a sac bunt should play into Lou’s decision to attempt it.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 10, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
If it had been Dome trying to execute that bunt, I’d feel a lot differently. I can’t understand why Lou didn’t learn his lesson with that disastrous DeRo bunt recently. He basically played right into TLR’s hands by calling for Soto to bunt.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Leaving it on with the 2-1 count
is really mind boggling. That is the perfect Hit and Run count. Show the bunt early and then pull it back and swing away. The obviously gave him a pitch to hit since he was able to at least get the bunt down.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Allowed to bunt list
Pie, Dome, Cedano, Theriot…that is it.
Allowed to Hit and Run List
Soto, Lee, Ramirez.
Those are the two lists that Lou should be managing from late in the game if he needs to try to move a runner.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shouldn't Riot be allowed to hit and run?
Him and Soriano would seem to be the ideal combo for that IMO.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes...His scrappiness
Gets him on two lists
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should also add
Reed to the allowed to Bunt list…
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes he should, just not for a basehit with two outs in the ninth
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd guess DeRo could probably hit and run as well.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where is SANTOSWOODENLEGS?
I need a BAN THE CUBS FOR ONE NIGHT POSTER QUICK
Who is in?
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 9:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe this will help.

"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dumb idea....
my powers can only be used for good.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 10, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
aahh your just saying that becuase your running for office....
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Sep 10, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which office?
This office?

Theriot, Fonty, and Johnson = The Scrappy Pyramid of Victory
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Sep 10, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your 9th inning call, Al
As a Cardinal fan, I was screaming at LaRussa to pinch hit for Izturis. As a Cub fan, I would have been screaming at Pinella to walk him. With one out, you have to set up the force and/or the double play.
by stlfan on Sep 10, 2008 10:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I really want to stay off the ledge, and the Brewers are the only reason why I'm still hopeful
All that being said, it seems like right now we are just banking on the fact that suddenly the offense will get going come October. I don’t see that happening right now.
I wish I could be more hopeful for a win today, but Looper dominated us this season, and Lilly doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. Harden is the one who is going to have to step up on Thursday and prove that pitching really is king.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I am absolutely astounded...
…at the way the Cubs and Brewers have essentially been mirror images of each other this month. Like a child grasping a teddy bear, I am holding on to the fact that, of the seven games the Cubs have played thus far in September, their starters have pitched quality starts in five of them. I’m hoping that, just like they did coming out of the all-star break, the starting pitching will remain strong until the bats can start hitting consistently again.
The last two losses have been so, so close. I am not on the ledge, but I am edging closer and closer to the window.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said this is Rich Harden's time to shine
IF he really is this ace, number 1 pitcher that some claim him to be, (I think you have to be able to throw 7 or 8 innings once in a while to be an ace) he will step up and shut down the Cardinals. Thats his job, thats why we traded for him.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, I will gladly suffer...
…50 fanposts of BlueMike gloating if Harden can get this team back on track. Of course, I’d prefer if Lilly comes out throwing smoke tonight first.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, the cards splits against LHP
are much lower than against the RHP. Plus, Ted has good numbers versus the Cards: 4-2, 2.99 ERA in 8 starts (here).
At New Busch, he’s 2-0 with a 2.77 ERA in 4 starts.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's baseball....
everybody just needs to relax. The Cubs will be fine. They really will. They have been the best team in the Majors for the better part of the season. The things that happened last night, while extremely distressing are all a part of the game. It’s why we love it. I went to the game last night, and while I will admit to being very frustrated at the outcome and the proceedings, I still had a wonderful time. Everybody needs to take a deep cleansing breath and relax. They will be OK…..they are much too good not to be. For my part, I intend to enjoy the rest of the season, fly the Cubs flag proudly and hope that we go DEEP in the playoffs. Just my humble opinion. Go Cubs!
by MOCubsfan on Sep 10, 2008 10:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i definitely don't disagree with you...
…but the real frustrating thing is we keep saying and hearing things such as “they’ll be OK,” or “they’ll snap out of it,” or “they’re too good not to be OK” for so many days in a row now. I just hope they can right this ship soon, preferably starting TONIGHT.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go!
Hey Chicago what do you say,
The Cubs are gonna win today!
by revtrh on Sep 10, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only ray of sunshine
is that the Cubs are on Comcast the next 4 nights. 50-19 is a helluva a record and the only trend that is going our way.
Having Soto bunt with a 2-1 count was a huge mistake, IMO.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Sep 10, 2008 10:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I just noticed another reason...
…Lou may have asked Soto to bunt. Geo leads the team in strikeouts with 115. Next closest is DLee with 101.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True but a K there is still better than a DP
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Sep 10, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's true.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I predict...
…Pie gets a start tonight in CF.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
While I like your thinking
That won’t exactly get the offense going.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't disagree...
…but I believe Lou is going to send a message with something like this. And, you never know, sometimes over a short duration, certain guys can deliever.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he really wanted to send a message
He could put all the AAA and bench guys out there today. Hoff at first, Pie in center, Dome in right,mcgee at 3rd… you get the idea.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True...
…but thats a little over the top. I would look for both Dome and Pie to get a start tonight.
The Cubs are facing a RH pitcher tonight, correct?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah something as crazy and extreme won't happen
Pie starting wouldn’t shock me the more I think about it. I just looked at his end of AAA season and he was swinging a hot bat. His defense is second to none. Give him a shot.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe, maybe not.
Let’s give the kid a shot.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm, that's a fairly bold prediction.
Edmonds didn’t exactly hit the cover off the ball last night, but he did draw two walks. I doubt Lou has much confidence in Pie to do that. One thing that is likely: Dome will be in the lineup.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Edmonds hates the new Busch and said he's never hit well there
but I’d still use him. One big clutch HR is what this team needs and Jimmy is due for one.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Sep 10, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with needed an Edmonds homer is that
those opposite field homers he hits at Wrigley are routine flyouts in Busch.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Starting Pie can't hurt, really.
Got to shake things up. That just might work.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, it's worth a try
but I can’t see Lou doing it, he never seemed to fond of Felix.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Sep 10, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He would use Pie...
…as a means to and end, not as a long term solution.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
correction Busch= InBev
shame on me for getting it wrong
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That place isn't much bigger than Wrigley
and Wrigley is much bigger with the wind blowing in. I’m not buying that. He jsut doesn’t look like he sees the ball very well there for some reason.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Sep 10, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou needs...
…to put a quicker team on the field so he has the option of putting guys in motion. If he wants to be aggressive and shake things up a bit, having a bit more speed is not a bad thing.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like Al said:
In my Opinion, the biggest mistake wasnt walking the guy to get the bases loaded… I mean that is a normal baseball move late in a game to get the double play. Having Soto bunt was a bad idea, but not as bad as I feel people are making it out to be.. I mean if he put that bunt down successfully, it would have been a genious move to have a big RBI guy move the runner… but it didnt work out… therefor it is a little dumb
"This balls got a chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannce, GONE!" - Pat Hughes
by SouthsideCUBSfan on Sep 10, 2008 10:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Give Molina credit for us even needing to bunt
Lou would of had Pie try and steal against most other catchers IMO. Molina is just too good to risk getting nailed.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 10, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing that...
…bothers me about the bunt is this; Lou said in his post-game, that the team is playing not to lose and they need to stay aggressive like the have all year. Well, if that is the case, would he have bunted Soto in that spot 2 weeks ago? I highly doubt it.
If last night was a playoff game, most managers would have probably had him bunt in that spot, because they tend to get conservative in those situations. If you are going to bunt there, you have to be sure the player is capable of getting it done, because you clearly have other options (swing away, hit and run or run and hit).
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strongly agreed
I dont’ agree with having Geo Soto bunt either, but I do understand why Lou went that route. This is an offense that is in the severe doldrums and unable to manufacture and plate runs. Might as well try and mix it up. Again, I wouldn’t have let Soto bunt but I understand why he had him bunting. Piniella was going to look like a goat if the move backfired. And it did.
This isn't 1969...is this 1969?...this isn't 1969, is it?
by MDBNIU on Sep 10, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't understand the double standard...
Since the same situation came up in the 9th with Soriano but there was no attempt or thought about bunting at all… and Sori grounded into a dp anyway. Why wasn’t he consisitent?
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heck...
maybe you bring in Hank White… he has proven to be a good bunter
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Sep 10, 2008 10:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we need
more Power Pitching.
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Sep 10, 2008 10:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Is there a guy named...
…Mitch Tarden available?
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Sep 10, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are all just desperate for a win
I think that’s three wins for STL in their last at bat against the Cubs this season. Painful
by Mapmaker on Sep 10, 2008 10:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hm, it's at least two - that I know for sure.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is three
All in STL. First Game of the First Series, the Wood game and this game
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The situation that had me flustered
was having Dempster swing away with bases loaded and 1 out. Why not have him bunt here, something he’s been good at? He ended up striking out, Soriano flew out, no runs, 3 LOB.
by thermal54 on Sep 10, 2008 11:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, Dempster's a pretty good bunter...
…but I’m not sure he’s good enough to get the ball past the pitcher. (And if he doesn’t get the ball past the pitcher, you’ve pretty much guaranteed a force out at home and quite possibly an inning-ending double play.) Are you saying Lou should have called a squeeze play?
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
squeeze would have been good. I forgot who was on third then.
by thermal54 on Sep 10, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought about a squeeze...
…as well. I can’t recall what the counts were in Dempsters AB, but I am sure Lou was thinking when and if LaRussa may call a pitchout in a favorable squeeze count to blow the play up.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the answer
Ryan Dempster has been quite adept at laying down the bunt all season long.
This isn't 1969...is this 1969?...this isn't 1969, is it?
by MDBNIU on Sep 10, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So would you have called the squeeze play...
…or had Dempster bunt for a hit?
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not pinch hit?
You’ve got enough pitchers to occupy Paris… okay, bad example. And it’s not like Dempster has thrown as many innings the past THREE YEARS as he has so far this season or anything.
by cwyers on Sep 10, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Casey McGehee was available.
(Note to all: I’ve now saved this .gif in the BCB Flickr Group, so we can all use it freely.)
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't recall...
…what inning it was, but if it was the 6th or earlier, I would have let Dempster hit.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was the sixth.
Bases loaded, expanded rosters, and Dempster has been ridden like a horse all season long. I say try to cash in some runs and roll the dice with the bullpen.
by cwyers on Sep 10, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Upon further review...
…I can see your point.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I am sure that Lou is thinking that we have not been very good in this situation lately…runner at third less than 2 outs. Plus, If I take my pitcher out, then I got to ride my bullpen for 4 innings. I don’t have Gaudin, I don’t have Lieber, I don’t have Marshall yet. Likewise, I got Harden pitching on Thursday, I got Z pitching on Saturday…both of those guys I don’t not know what to expect. Put on top of that that you have Lilly going the next day… He probably wanted to try to save the bullpen and Demp was pitching a 3 hit shut out at the time…
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs can't afford to look backwards...neither can Cub fans
It’s been a very bad stretch of baseball. Mistakes have been made and this ballclub has suffered from an acute case of dragging.
But right now we can’t afford to worry about last night or the past 2 weeks. Right now this team MUST get focused on today’s game with St. Louis and literally live the cliche, “one game at a time.” Fortunately for us the baseball gods have been shining on the Cubs and the rest of the National League competitors are playing craptastic baseball as well. And no, I’m not going to worry about the surging Houston Astros. They are in 4th place and have very litle shot of leapfrogging several teams to get into playoff contention at this late stage of the season.
Wake up from your St. Louis hotel room, have lunch, walk over to Busch Stadium and get prepared for today’s game. That’s all you can do. That and pitch around Albert Pujols.
This isn't 1969...is this 1969?...this isn't 1969, is it?
by MDBNIU on Sep 10, 2008 11:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Pitch far far around Albert
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there an Einstein Bros. Bagels in St. Louis?
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put Lilly in the 8th spot tonight
and Everything will be fine.
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on Sep 10, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Lou should wear some creepy shades too!
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously...
… batting Lilly 8th and Fukudome 9th might not be a bad idea.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 10, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My guess at the lineup:
Soriano
Theriot
Lee
Ramirez
DeRosa
Fukudome
Soto
Pie
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
given your sig line
your headline is… well, I’d call it ironic, but the word I’m looking for starts with a st, and ends with id.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL, what a hypocrite.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just realized something
D LEE’s numbers this season resemble a typical Mark Grace year, Grace was/is my favorite Cub, so why is D LEE driving me completely nuts?
"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus
by graceunderpressure on Sep 10, 2008 11:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Because Derrek had a ridiculous 2005
leading to very, very high expectations from that point forward.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
too lazy to look up...
comparing K’s and doubles with HRs and RBI’s being ‘equal’?
by JCD on Sep 10, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems to me that 95% of Lee's numbers this year have been
generated during the first 90 or so games, not much since July…
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because Derrek Lee is in decline phase and had a career year in 2005
It’s difficult to criticize Derrek Lee given that he is quality person and teammate to go along with being a good all around ballplayer. But yeah, I’m sick and tired of Derrek Lee in the Cub lineup. And yeah, I wouldn’t mind him being shipped in the offseason. Will it happen? Doubtful. At the very least he needs to be pushed down in the lineup. NOW would be preferable, but again that is doubtful to happen. But next year he should be hitting no higher than # 6.
This isn't 1969...is this 1969?...this isn't 1969, is it?
by MDBNIU on Sep 10, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you put who at 1st in '09?
Maybe you just accept and take who he is now. I don’t see any reason why we can’t expect a .300 hitter, 20 HR and a gold glove caliber guy on D for a couple more years.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then bat him 7th in the lineup where he belongs next year
This isn't 1969...is this 1969?...this isn't 1969, is it?
by MDBNIU on Sep 10, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No argument there
I don’t think he should be our No 3 hitter this year, much less next when we start this thing all over again.
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by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
7th is a stretch...
…how many .300 hitters with 20+ homers end up hitting 7th? The way Lee is producing now, he should be a 5 or 6 hitter, as I think he K’s too much to hit 2nd and has also lost a step.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Derrek Lee hits a hollow .300
The presence of Aramis Ramirez hitting behind him also significantly aids the quality of pitches he sees. I’m willing to say that a 33 year old Derrek Lee batting 6th or 7th where he belongs would be fortunate to chalk in at .280.
This isn't 1969...is this 1969?...this isn't 1969, is it?
by MDBNIU on Sep 10, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A "hollow .300 ?
Yes he is a bit off this year but I will take his 87 runs and 81 RBIs with his busting his ass to play nearly EVERY game Vs the oft injured and erratic such as A-Ram and Sori. Sure
they have more power but when you need them the most Sori in particular is not coming through. In any event you were the one who assured us Harden was THE GUY and we did not have to worry about his incredible history of injuries and inability to pitch a complete season. Well he MIGHT get to 140 innings this year IF he can actually make3 more starts. which is in question. I don’t think it was a bad deal in that we were not going to use any of the guys we traded but was he really worth your left testicle ? ( I admit I could make a really snide remark here but I will refrain for the sake of delicate readers and not wanting Al to be mad at me)
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 10, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your Prudence and Fortitude
are commendable
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by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once again with the false information...
Decline phase? That’s a catchy phrase. Innacurrate, but catchy. Derrek has had an off year power wise. He still makes contact on a regular basis, (as evidenced by his avg. and the double plays he has hit into). When he does make contact, he is hitting down on the ball, and not generating lift; therefore he is not elevating the ball, and subsequently his HR power, and double power has dissipated. In the Cubs line-up, Derrek is the perfect #3 hitter. He has speed, makes contact reguarly, and when right, can provide power for doubles & HRs. The question is who would bat in the #3 hole if D. is pushed down? There is no more suitable #3 hitter for this team, and the Cubs aren’t going to start mucking up the line-up now.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Sep 10, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all for moving hitters around in the order but who takes the 3 spot?
DeRo? Fukudome? Soto? Edmonds? Who?
Great to have opinions but you should really have a plan and think about the fall out of that plan.
Your opinion is based on a reaction to DLee not what is best for this team.
Please be quiet now.
Theriot, Fonty, and Johnson = The Scrappy Pyramid of Victory
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Sep 10, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another one and done coming in the Playoffs
The Cubs will make it into the playoffs, barely.
Then, we will all get the same results. One and done.
Sorry – but all indications are not pointing up anymore in my view. The Cubs have never been a team that “turns on the switch” when they ned to, and it is obvious that we really do not have a true superstar the likes of an Albert Poo-holes.
It has been a fun year at the park for me personally, going 17-2 in my games this year. Many awesome games – including the Colorado-come-from-behind victory.
However, I am afraid that I am seeing a movie I have seen too many times before.
It sickens my stomach, but there is nothing we can do. Its another “wait ’til next year” brewing. Incredible, but that’s baseball…
by The E-Man on Sep 10, 2008 11:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you on this....
The National League is so screwy right now that the team who gets the hottest in the end might pull a Colorado of last year and make it all the way to the World Series regardless if they are inferior on paper. The Los Angeles Dodgers might be that team. And wouldn’t that be a pisser for the ages.
This isn't 1969...is this 1969?...this isn't 1969, is it?
by MDBNIU on Sep 10, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a trend...
…that has become very interesting. In the last 6-7 years, you have seen numerous teams get red hot (when they have sucked early on) and come from miles behind to make the playoffs. On the other hand, you have seen teams play quite well through August, and just fold up like a tent in September.
Why this happens I don’t know, but its real.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2004 Houston Astros, 2007 Colorado Rockies....
On paper both of those teams had holes aplenty. On paper and for most of the season there were “better” teams than both of those teams. But in the end both where hotter than a firecracker and surged all the way to making the World Series.
I’m starting to keep an eye on the Los Angeles Dodgers in this regard. At no point in this season did I think the Dodgers were even a decent team. But…
This isn't 1969...is this 1969?...this isn't 1969, is it?
by MDBNIU on Sep 10, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check that, 2005 Houston Astros
My bad
This isn't 1969...is this 1969?...this isn't 1969, is it?
by MDBNIU on Sep 10, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
go Dodgers!
Dodgers fever! CATCH IT!
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dont forget about them Jays
They are so En Fuego!
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by tony412 on Sep 10, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You two should get a room.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your ledge jumping and negative energy turns my stomach...
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Sep 10, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou Bashing
What about the 6th …. men on second and 3rd one out ….. Dempster … K … Sori K
Why didn’t he pinch hit for Dempster ?
The Bunt ….. I would have sent Pie, if he is out he is out….. but you have a shot with a
good hitter (Soto) getting a hit for a score….. I’ll tell you after the car trip to Penn. I am
wondering about the peeps in charge.
by nimblenikelfoos on Sep 10, 2008 11:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Were the bases loaded...
…or was it runners on 2nd and 3rd?
If it was 2nd and 3rd and Lou pinch hits, he may have been thinking that LaRussa would just walk the pinch hitter and play for the double play against Soriano. If they were loaded, I can see why a pinch hitter could have been used.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were loaded. 1 out... Dempster K. Sori Flyout to right warning track.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bags were juiced.
Edmonds walks, Soto singsles, and they walked Fontenot to get to Dempster.
by cwyers on Sep 10, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it is the 7th inning and the score is 3-0
You probably pitch hit.
It was the sixth and Dempster was dealing. Lou has to think that Dempster can hold onto the lead.
However, what I would have like to have seen Demp is to take the first pitch until he gets a strike. He is probably not going to hit the flamethrower anyway..try to coax a walk against the rook
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your right...
…I was thinking the game was 3-3 at the time, but they were up 3-0. In that circumstance, you do let Dempster go a bit further, even if you have the expanded roster situation. even though you have more pitchers to choose from, you still are going to rely on your core guys in a relatively close game.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You score some runs in that spot...
…and you don’t really have a close game anymore.
And Dempster isn’t as effective in the 7th as he is in the early going. Hitters are batting .222/.302/.334 against him on the season as a whole, but .291/.333/.430 after the sixth inning. So it’s not a straight up swap for Dempster for an inferior reliever, but swapping a less-optimal Dempster for a fresh reliever.
by cwyers on Sep 10, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would tend to agree with
You if he had his full bullpen arsenal and Zambrano/Harden where not coming off layoffs this week.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs have 16 pitchers on the active roster!
At this point in the season, I would strongly consider pinch-hitting for Lilly in a bases loaded spot tonight in the third inning, if it came to that.
Seriously, at this point, I’m ready for the DH. For all this talk about “strategy” in the NL, nobody seems to know what to do with any of it.
by cwyers on Sep 10, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dempster was...
…pitching a shutout through 5 and I wouldn’t mess with that when you have a 3 run lead. If its 3-3, different story.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you wait to pull a pitcher until he's showing signs of trouble...
…then you’ve waited too long.
by cwyers on Sep 10, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have a crystal ball...
…but if you pulled your pitcher everytime in this circumstance, your pen would be fried by May.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, if you have a 12-man pitching staff and only use a reliever per inning.
We have a 16-man pitching staff. We have an excess of pitching wealth here. Why not get a little more aggressive in using that? You rest your starters for later and you gain a little strategic advantage.
by cwyers on Sep 10, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is why...
…you aren’t in a mode to throw anybody out their against a division rival in a fairly close pennant race. In essense (unless you have a blowout) the pitchers you are going to use, are really the same ones you have been using all along. In those circumstances, you don’t yank a pitcher who has thrown 5 shoutout innings and has a 3 run lead, in the 6th.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that 16 man staff
includes Howry. Just sayin’.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pitchers Available
Wood, Marmol, Chum Line, Guzman, Wuertz, Hart, Cotts, Wells, and Howry.
Gaudin, Lieber Unavailable
Marshall unavailable till Saturday cause ya have to hold him back till Z makes his start.
Of the guys available…The first four are your best options. Do you want to burn your Marmol/Wood Replacements (Chum Line and Guzman) to bridge this game to them. Now, all of sudden you are probably short for the next day and have to depend on the next four guys
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At that point in the game...
…a guy with a 4.50 ERA is likely to be just as effective as Dempster. You don’t have to bring in a relief ace in that spot.
by cwyers on Sep 10, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't buy it...
I don’t buy that the stat you are quoting as relevant at this time since he had no high stress situations up to that point and his pitch count was low.
We can agree to disagree. 6th inning correct call in my mind…7th inning…Pitch hit
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are two seperate effects at work.
One is pitch counts. The other is times through the lineup. Even accounting for pitch counts, pitchers get worse each time they face a batter in a game.
The point is that you can’t simply point to five innings of work and expect that to continue. We know that pitchers get worse the more they pitch. So we shouldn’t compare our bullpen options to what Dempster had already done, but what he would be expected to do.
by cwyers on Sep 10, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Piniella...
…yanked Dempster at that point and the pen gives up the lead, he would have been lambasted for doing someting he hadn’t done all year.
If you are going to get beat, you get beat with who has delivered for you to this point.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a believable reason...
…but it doesn’t have a damned thing to do with winning ballgames. You take all the second-tier Marriotti wannabees and all of the Mac, Jurko and Harry types in Chicago and put them in a room and it’ll be a good three weeks before one of them has a thought worth discussing. Getting roasted by the gum-flappers of the world (I don’t mean the guys that actually report, I mean the ones paid by the weakly-held opinion) isn’t a concern of mine.
by cwyers on Sep 10, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying...
…Lou based his decision on what the media would say, and I highly doubt he would ever do that. What I am saying is you go with the guys that are battle tested in that situation and you play it in the same manner that gave you success in the past.
This is why the Soto bunt had me miffed, as I don’t think Lou would have done that 2 weeks ago.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two weeks ago, Lou had fewer pitchers...
…and fewer pinch-hitting options. The situation is different than it was in the past, because Lou had more resources available.
by cwyers on Sep 10, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since they...
…are in a pennant race and a close game last night with the Cards, the number of pitchers has nothing to do with it. You play the game the same way you have in the past to win it and the last thing on his mind should be to use some of my extra pitchers to give this guy rest.
Blowouts are a different story, but until you have it in the bag, I don’t thnk any other manager would have yanked their starter who has been their best pitcher in the 6th with a 3-0 lead.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You seem to have a higher opinion of other managers than I do.
None of the guys in the NL right now are Earl Weaver or Whitey Hertzog, let’s face it.
And you’re not using the other pitchers to give Dempster some rest. You’re using them to give you a better chance to score runs and win the ballgame. It’s only a 3-0 ballgame if you fail to score any runs with the bases loaded, and the easiest way to do that is to let the pitcher hit!
by cwyers on Sep 10, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lets just agree...
…to disagree on this one.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about this for a new MLB Rule...
I go back and forth on the merits of the DH…times like these, I really hate not having it.
How about this for a new MLB rule…
Allow teams to pinch hit for the pitcher one time during the game w/o it taken the pitcher out of the game.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 10, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay...I tried.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rarely do politicians speak with such candor and decisiveness.
(Daver starts slow clap.)
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's gonna be a write in landslide, I tell ya!
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've heard that bandied about before as a compromise...
…and to be honest, I kind of like it. I’ve also heard it suggested that when you pinch-hit, one of the players must come out of the game, and the manager chooses which.
by cwyers on Sep 10, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you
pinch hit for the pitcher, but the pitcher stays in and another player must come out? I kinda like that idea. it would certainly make things very interesting for how the managers used that rule.
When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches. ~ Ron Santo
by gwood on Sep 10, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry folks, but Lou gets the benefit of the doubt in my book
He’s led this team for the last two years and I think has done a heck of a job. Does he sometimes make mistakes? Yes. We all do. He’s admitted to having “senior” moments. He’s not perfect. Neither are the other coaches or the players.
They WILL work through this. It WILL get better. Look into my eyes. You are getting very sleepy. Repeat after me: “I – (state your name)- hereby pledge allegiance to the Cubs…er…with fraternity and liberty for all.”
“Amen.”
Lovely malt beverages for ALL!
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE! (#13031 on the Cubs season ticket waiting list...)
by Zeke on Sep 10, 2008 12:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Quade has to send Geo home on that ball that Ankiel over ran
Geo had already rounded third, yes he stopped but he has to get sent home after Ankiel over runs Demp’s base hit. That is what a 3rd base coach is there for …. to see what is going on in the outfield. It cost us a run IMHO
"I don’t believe that things go your way," said Lou Piniella, the Cubs manager.
"I believe you make things go your way."
by Basman on Sep 10, 2008 12:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Geo should have ignored him the way Soriano did a few weeks ago.
"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08
by dat cubfan daver on Sep 10, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ ONE MILLION
It drove me nuts… him just standing there.
Then: FLY OUT, inning over. AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once he was stopped the play was over
He is catcher…He is slow. It probably takes that ball about 2 seconds or less to go from Ankiel to the catcher. Do you think that Soto could run 90 feet in two seconds or less?
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right, of course, but it still drove me nuts.
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...it was almost as maddening
as the play against the Phils two weeks ago when Theriot did not run home on the pass ball. Thankfully, that all worked out because of Dome walks.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But not quite as maddening
as Quade not sending home Theriot home on Lee’s single to center when he was on 2nd and Victorino had no intention of making a play at the plate.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me play devil's advocate
What happens if Quade, seeing Ankiel miss the ball sends Soto after he stops and Soto pulls a hamstring trying to get back up to speed?
Looking at it that way, I’d rather sacrifice the run than lost Soto for 15 days or so.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 12:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If you are thinking like that...
…they mine as well forfeit the rest of the games.
Baseball involves running the bases to score runs, you don’t hold a guy up (who is healthy) because you fear a pulled hammy.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said, I'm just being the devil's advocate
We don’t know that Soto isn’t a little nicked up. He has played a lot this year.
I still think he or Quade should have read the play better and he should have at least attempted to score, but I thought I’d throw it out there.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quade...
…is a bad 3rd base coach and thats all I have to say.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is
no one noticed the third-base coach unless he’s done something wrong. Too often we’ve been noticing him lately.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3rd base coaching...
…is like bunting, it is a lost art, at least as the Cubs go the last 10 years or so.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, pick your poison (and death is not an option)
Wendell Kim or Quade?
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I hate to say I would pick Quade.
Kim was atrocious.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice Hank Steinbrenner impersonation....
stop it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 10, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I was Hank, I would have flown off the handle 5 games ago.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 10, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For all the talk about the Pujols Jack
If you walk him, the three runs score anyway.
The first run scores on Ludwick’s Flyout. The next run probably scores on Yadier’s Single and for sure the Tying run(s) if not the go ahead run scores on Lopez’s double.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 1:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Or Dempster doesn't pitch them the same because it's a different scenario
and the result is either better or worse. We will never know.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't say that...
…because you don’t know who Dempster pitches to those guys and you don’t know how they would have responded to the situation.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not
But bases loaded and no outs but a lot of pressure on Dempster in that situation too.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Sep 10, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Groundhog Day(s) for Cubs Fans
We’ve all seen this one so many times that we’re beginning to feel like the Bill Murray character in the movie “Groundhog Day.” It figures that Murray is a big Cubs fan!
"Earthly fame is naught but a breath of wind, which now comes hence and now comes thence, changing its name because it changes quarter." -- Dante, Purgatorio, Canto XI
by sweetswinger on Sep 10, 2008 1:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ok, so who dies in our scenario?
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully not us. :)
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone'e gotta croak to change the cycle
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who is the Groundhog?
To be fair to the Cubs, outside of 2004, the team actually has over the last 15 years rarely has a Sept. meltdown. In fact in a handful of years they played their way into the playoffs rather than out of it by finishing strong. 2004 was a real anomaly for this generation’s fans. Hopefully it is one that won’t be repeated in 2008.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Sep 10, 2008 1:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dempster did his job
last night in my opinion. No shame in getting taken yard by Pujols. Three runs over seven innings should get you a win more often than not. They had many opportunities to put that game away but, as has been the case as of late, they didn’t. They let the cardinals hang around and ended up turning a win into a loss. It’s really getting old. Thank God the Brewers are choking down the stretch too.
After reading Piniella’s post game comments, I think it’s clear that he is starting to sweat this thing pretty heavily, and he thinks his team is as well. How many more times can we say go get’em tomorrow? They need to start winning games now. The division is still ours for the taking.
by qccub on Sep 10, 2008 1:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The funny thing
I felt that Pujols was going to jack one in that situation. My wife was in the other room and I called out, here comes a tie game. I hate it when that happens…
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The shame is in putting two men on in front of Pujols!!
Dempster asked for disaster by letting the first two guys on base and then Pujols took care of the rest. This team has no superstar, no Pujols, to lead them.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Sep 10, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rami?
Soto? Soriano!
The difference between the Cubs and the Cardinals isn’t that the Cubs have no superstar. The difference is that the rest of the Cubs are CLOSER, ability-wise, to their superstars, than the Cardinals have.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This year's team
has the uncanny ability to go completely to crap out of nowhere and then hit the switch and be world beaters for 2 or 3 weeks. I hope this is what they are going through again right now. A week from now, the tragic # may be 0 and we can all take a deep breath.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 1:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hate to bring up the White Sux, but I DO hope this is like what happened to them in '05
A near September collapse, then ‘cruise control’ thru the playoffs. I can live with that. :)
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No score, and no hits, in the MIL/CIN game - 3rd inning
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 1:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't like the phrasing of "this year's team"
In my opinion it is not the team, it is the offense. Yes, Wood and Marmol have blown saves but my god, how about scoring more than 3 runs a game, a feat they have managed only TWICE during the past 10 games. The offense is awful, and as a result pitchers have little margin for error so they get tight. The offense needs to pull the team out of the funk, we can sit around and wait for a complete game shutout because, outside of Dempster, we don’t have the horses for that.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Sep 10, 2008 1:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You're right
the pitchers have been awesome all year. My bad for including them in this mess.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
CIN up with bases juiced - Joey Votto at the plate
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 1:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bah - they didn't score.
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just like last night
but they ended up winning.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hitting vs.Pitching
I agree that the current downturn is due more to poor hitting, but it would be more accurate to day that the pitching and hitting have been out-of-sync. We lose one game 2-1 or 3-1, and then the next one 9-7 or 5-4.
I don’t have the numbers to back me up, but I’d bet that our LOBs (esp. w. RISPs) and hitting into DPs are among the highest in either league. It’s been an issue all year, not just during the current losing streak. Somehow the team has managed to win consistently despite this deficiency, but the baseball Gods (or devils) seem determined to exact their overdue pound of flesh.
"Earthly fame is naught but a breath of wind, which now comes hence and now comes thence, changing its name because it changes quarter." -- Dante, Purgatorio, Canto XI
by sweetswinger on Sep 10, 2008 1:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Did a quick check...
…and Cubs are fourth in estimated LOBs. (I don’t have full play-by-play data so I can’t measure it precisely.) I don’t think it’s that meaningful, though – there doesn’t seem to be any link between LOB and quality of team. Here’s the data.
by cwyers on Sep 10, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excuse me, fifth.
Forgot to subtract CS and GIDP from the figures. (There are a lots of outs on base that are unaccounted for here, so these are not the same as the official totals.)
by cwyers on Sep 10, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1-0 Brewers
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 2:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hairston homered to left 3-1 Reds.
wow.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel
by Blue W on Sep 10, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Losing sucks but the
way some on here carry on is ridiculous. If needed I will start another game thread tonight so save us from the drama, hysterics and whining.
by sue369 on Sep 10, 2008 2:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Something tells me it will bleed over to that thread, too.
Cubs fans feel like they are getting their hearts broken all over again. People do crazy things when that happens regardless where they are.
Theriot, Fonty, and Johnson = The Scrappy Pyramid of Victory
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Sep 10, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They stayed in the
regular game threads last year. They think it’s stupid that we move to another thread but I can’t stand all the drama and I know others feel the same way.
by sue369 on Sep 10, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cinci up 3-1 in the 5th
Jerry Hairston HR
I heart the riot. (www.riotshirts.com)
by RIOTSHIRTS.com on Sep 10, 2008 2:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
3-1 CINCY LEADS!!!
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 2:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
alright!
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damnit - friggin' CC doubles - 2nd and 3rd - nobody out
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One out.
Kendall Popped out.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel
by Blue W on Sep 10, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bases juiced - DP please
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You asked for it!
end of inning!
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel
by Blue W on Sep 10, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
W H E W !
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was shocked to see Soto bunt as well,
he has been one of the Cubs best clutch hitters all year. I’m still not concerned and think the team will turn it around, I’m just sick of having my day/night ruined with these painful loses.
Lets do it Cubbies
by slocs55 on Sep 10, 2008 2:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Am I crazy, or are ex-Cub players helping keep the Cubs magic number dropping?
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 2:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
if you mean Jason Kendal
sucking, then sure. :P
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sabathia...
…has a nice stroke.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 2:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
(not going there)
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bases loaded for Hardy...
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel
by Blue W on Sep 10, 2008 2:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
(holding breath)
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DOUBLE PLAY - OUT OF INNING!!! WHOO-HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think...
…Arroyo has thrown a fastball to a lefty yet.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 2:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd swear....
…the Cubs and Brewers must be taking pointers from each other.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 10, 2008 2:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Reds have runners at the corners and zero outskies.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel
by Blue W on Sep 10, 2008 2:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sweet
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn. No runs
still 3-1 mid 6.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel
by Blue W on Sep 10, 2008 2:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sabathia is a magician
He gets out of more guy-on-third-less-than-two-outs-jams than anybody I’ve ever seen.
by Mapmaker on Sep 10, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How'd they get out of that jam?
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cabrera lined out to 2nd
Phillips grounded into FC and Encarnacion was thrown out at home, then Hanigan flew out to left.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel
by Blue W on Sep 10, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nn the plus side, Arroyo worked a 1-2-3 sixth.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel
by Blue W on Sep 10, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
CC: 102 pitches - 1 out in 7th
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Runners on 1st & 2nd again...
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel
by Blue W on Sep 10, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Yost keeps a pitch count for CC
at least from what we’ve seen so far.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel
by Blue W on Sep 10, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
let 'im throw, baby!
the more tired he is when we get there, the better.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Sep 10, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's hope so - and I hope it goes 15 innings (and they lose)
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My name is Blue W and I support this message.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel
by Blue W on Sep 10, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Out of the inning - still 3-1 - 113 pitches for FU... I mean CC
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Soto bunt
It seems that we can all agree that this was a bad call.
On the one hand, I want all of the Cubs to be able to execute the fundamentals. On the other hand, the manager in me (it’s what I do 9-5) says that having Soto practice bunting is so far down on the priority list for his rookie season that we don’t get to it. He has been handling the pitching staff incredibly well this year. That means a lot of time spent studying the opposing hitters, and what his pitching staff has to get them out. That is so much more important for the team that you just don’t expect him to execute the bunt, and you live with that shortcoming, at least this year. Second most important, his approach at the plate. Somewhere WAY WAY below that, bunting practice.
by vonde6 on Sep 10, 2008 3:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
CIN/MIL: 1 out in 7th - Mil has a guy on 2nd
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 3:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Uh oh - throwing error - 3-2 now
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
CC out of the game
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 Outs
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Out of the inning - Cin still leads 3-2 - headed to the 8th
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice...
I see Arroyo has 120 some odd pitches. So hopefully their pen can nail it down.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So is this C C's 2nd start w/o a CG? This one
and when the Cubs knocked him out?
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I looked it up
this was his 13th start with the Brewers and he only has 6 CG. It seemed like he completed all of them LOL
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Sep 10, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No... his 1st game with the Brewers V Rockies he only went 6.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn it, Yost!
have you no sense of commitment?!
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel
by Blue W on Sep 10, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stormy Weathers in for Reds...
Hold on tight.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel
by Blue W on Sep 10, 2008 3:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
2 on no outs
’cmon grounder to second!
Please?
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel
by Blue W on Sep 10, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
JMO
I don’t necessarily disagree with the concept of bunting in a tie game late, and I could even possibly live with asking a power hitter to lay down a bunt, but…
Who in the hell was he setting up???
Mike Fontenot and the pitcher’s spot. All TLR has to do is bring in a LHP, and Lou has this choice of PHs:
Ronny Cedeno
Reed Johnson
Koyie Hill
Henry Blanco
Casey McGeehee
I rest my case. Soto has a much better chance of driving Edmonds/Pie in from 1B than any of the other candidates do from 2B.
Lou made the same mistake on Aug. 29 when he had DeRo bunt (successfully) to set up Ronny Cedeno and Henry Blanco.
My kingdom for Alan Trammell!
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Sep 10, 2008 3:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wonderful
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Single - Walk - Single
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how did they get on? hits walks?
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weathers still screwing the Cubs
Unfortunately some things never change.
by Orval Overall on Sep 10, 2008 3:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Double play - but game tied 3-3
Shit.
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 3:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
CC remains unbeaten in NL.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tie freakin' game
He got the DP, but still..
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel
by Blue W on Sep 10, 2008 3:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
4-3 Milwaukee Leads
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 3:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
how?
what happened?
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cameron singled.
I expect a Reds comeback in the 9th.
by CubFaninNY on Sep 10, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3.45 ERA after giving up the runs is not pathetic.
by CubFaninNY on Sep 10, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weathers blows raw monkey
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Sep 10, 2008 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you, his mother?
He didn’t pitch well today
by Mapmaker on Sep 10, 2008 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*exasperated sigh*
Well, time for our boys in blue to to their job, simple as that.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel
by Blue W on Sep 10, 2008 3:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sucks... the Reds had 2 errors and which led to 2 runs...
That’s your ball game folks.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reds LOSE.
Lead is at 4. MN is still at 14.
by CubFaninNY on Sep 10, 2008 3:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Better win tonight!
STL thinks they still have a chance, better show them otherwise.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
by Itchy on Sep 10, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brewers
We can partly blame pitch counts for the Brewers win today. Arroyo was shutting them down, but they had to take him out because he was at 120 pitches. The pen blew it (no surprise there).
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on Sep 10, 2008 4:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The positive I see
is that if they play the way they did against the Phillies like they did against the Reds and SD, they will get swept.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Sep 10, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if Lou got outmanaged.
It could be that Tony got lucky his late inning pitching didn’t fold up again and he didn’t do something stupid himself. Maybe he did, I wasn’t able to catch the whole game…
But that bunt did stick out like Pinoccio’s nose.
"I wouldn't be a part of any club that would have me as a member" : Groucho Marx
by Dave Pendleton on Sep 10, 2008 4:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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