Cuban Embargoed?
"Sources" tell some other blog that Mark Cuban is out of the running for the Cubs, and that the clubhouse leader is Tom Ricketts.
http://chi-ball.com/blog/2008/09/12/cuban-out/
This in turn was reported on another blog, deadspin.com, so now I believe it. Is this all unsubstantiated rumor? Anyone have any more info?
[And as always, apologies if this is old ground; I ran a search, turned up nothing new on Cuban since August]
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Reading something like that makes me happy Im not in the cutthroat buisness world
Lots of lying and backstabbing.
Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #6 2-0 (0-0). Next up Saturday home vs. Nevada. Chase for Heisman!
by nji232 on Sep 12, 2008 9:02 AM CDT 0 recs
Interesting.
The scenario put on that blog is plausible. But I’ll wait and see if I hear anything more definitive before I comment further.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Sep 12, 2008 9:17 AM CDT 0 recs
I am not sure of the validity of the article, but the
most disturbing part was the last two sentences “The major league owners group however, intimated to Zell they would never approve Cuban. The fact is Jerry Reinsdorf still has great influence over the majority of baseball’s owners.”
The whole premise of owner’s voting on who purchases a franchise smells. This is not some country club where members vote to allow someone to join their ranks. In a case where a property is held by stock-owners, there is a fudiciary responsibility to the owners. This may not strictly apply to the Cubs case, but in the broader sense, an owner such as Zell would have legal recourse if it could be proven that blocking the sale of the team would cause undo financial harm to the company in question. The other owners cannot force another owner to reject an offer strictly on the basis of their dislike for the potential owner thus forcing the party in question to accept a less desireable offer.
Of course, the current owner would have to institute the lawsuit, thus potentially tying up the sale for an undetermined period of time.
The current anti-trust exemption does not avail Major League Baseball of its fuduciary responsibility to the members of the owners group and it’s interested parties. In other words, you can’t block me from doing business or selling the team to a potential party for your own frivolous reasons.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 12, 2008 9:34 AM CDT 0 recs
can anyone set me straight
at first i heard reinsdorf hates cuban
later i read an article (i wish i could remember where to link to) that quoted reinsdorf as saying that he gives his endorsement to cuban
am i taking crazy pills?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on
Sep 12, 2008 10:17 AM CDT
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Sorry...
..I don’t see Zell as someone who sits by while others tell him what he can or can’t do with his asset. He may realize Cuban would be a battle because of the political side of this, but if there is anyone that can turn this on its head, its him.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on
Sep 12, 2008 10:22 AM CDT
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yup, and when you throw a second wild-card like Cuban
into the mix, it could get really interesting. If Zell and Cuban together decide that they’re getting hosed, they could really make things uncomfortable for the owners from a legal standpoint. I’m not bright enough to say whether or not they’d win, but it would be worth the price of admission to watch.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
by davidalanu on
Sep 12, 2008 3:46 PM CDT
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I don't know much about Ricketts
but understand Canning is p/o the good ’ol boys club; which scares the living shit out of me. With anyone like the dirtbag who owns the team south of Madison St being in charge of our beloved Cubs, I can have nothing but negative thoughts.
If it comes down to a battle between Zell and MLB (MLB being the Canning advocate), I’d love to see Zell go toe to toe with MLB to get anyone other than Canning in there. I just have a bad feeling about that “selection”.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Sep 12, 2008 9:51 AM CDT 0 recs
Money Talks
Zell is obviously a bottom line guy, so if Cubans bid maximizes his profits, Id imagine he would take all recourses to get that bid to go through.
I think all this anti-Cuban stuff is way overblown, he even got a letter or rec. from David Stern, his supposed arch rival.
The local tie angle doesnt really add up to me either, the Cubs are a national franchise so I dont see why a buyers regional background should matter.
Just get this thing done already so its not hanging over the front offices heads when its business time in the winter.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Sep 12, 2008 10:16 AM CDT 0 recs
Let's hope for the Ricketts family...
They’ve long been the best candidate from my perspective. I’m not sure why everybody is surprised that Mark Cuban is not seriously in the running. Everybody knows that the MLB owners have to approve a new owner. There is zero chance Bud the Dud Selig, Jerry Reinsdorf and the other owners want Cuban in their fraternity. Therefore in the end he won’t be. Sam Zell can scream all he wants and stick a roomful of lawyers on MLB. In the end it won’t matter.
I dont’ want any of the Wall Street or LaSalle Street gangs being mentioned either. Lets have a good old fashioned American owner in the form of the Ricketts family. Just say no to the money men.
This isn't 1969...is this 1969?...this isn't 1969, is it?
by MDBNIU on Sep 12, 2008 10:51 AM CDT 0 recs
What, from your perspective, do the Ricketts bring
to the table that makes them the best choice?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on
Sep 12, 2008 10:58 AM CDT
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He has a TD Ameritrade acct
n/t
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on
Sep 12, 2008 11:05 AM CDT
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Lots of things...
Chicago roots, a net worth in the billions, they are not Mark Cuban, they are not the money man and leveraged buyout guys of Wall Street and LaSalle Street. Maybe I’m being naive, but I look at the Ricketts and see a group that will have deep interest in the Cubs and not simply think about them as a fnancial asset to be manipulated.
This isn't 1969...is this 1969?...this isn't 1969, is it?
by MDBNIU on
Sep 12, 2008 11:19 AM CDT
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Your aversion to Cuban aside, I certainly believe the new owner should be someone with the financial
wherewithall to be able to devote enough finances to the team to improve the scouting and development of players. Leverage buyout guys need not apply here. I am not as convinced as you are that Cuban would necessasarily be a long-term detrement to the team.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on
Sep 12, 2008 11:29 AM CDT
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I don't think
that this guy has any sources who know anything BUT I think Ricketts is in a strong position to buy the team.
What worries me, though, is Zell’s leveraged partnership scheme that he wants to avoid paying capital gains taxes. One, as a taxpayer, I find it scummy but two, as a Cubs fan, it would put a huge debt load on the new team that could possibly cripple the team for a decade or more.
I would think Zell would love Cuban’s plan to buy advertising on WGN, since that would move the income off the sale and towards keeping WGN afloat. But I have a to admit I’m no expert on this kind of finance.
Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?
by Josh77 on Sep 12, 2008 11:14 AM CDT 0 recs
Excellent point. The last thing you want
to do is place any restraints on the potential owner and I don’t think Zell gives a damn about that. He just is starved for cash and I don’t think he cares how he gets it. A shrewd businessperson won’t accept a crummy deal so that may affect the ultimate choice.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on
Sep 12, 2008 11:17 AM CDT
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Yeah, I agree.
The tax avoidance scheme is going to have to be examined VERY closely before anything is finalized.
I’m still keeping an open mind regarding Cuban — I’m not as against him as I was — and Ricketts, who I think would definitely open up the deep pockets and spend what is needed.
What this team really needs is MORE fulltime employees, especially in the scouting department.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Sep 12, 2008 11:19 AM CDT
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Well....
It looks like Sam Zell is going to act sooner rather than later. I’m going to also guess that Bud Selig and the owners are not going to cave in and hold firm on who they will let into their fraternity. So the question becomes does Sam Zell have the appetite for a protracted battle with MLB when he is already up to his eyeballs in alligators with the divestiture of the Tribune Company assets.
This isn't 1969...is this 1969?...this isn't 1969, is it?
by MDBNIU on
Sep 12, 2008 11:22 AM CDT
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When it comes to what...
…he considers his money, I don’t think Zell has backed away from too many battles.
There are going to be a bunch of twists and turns with this story with only one thing certain in my mind – Zell is not going to leave any money on the table in this deal and he will battle to see that he doesn’t.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on
Sep 12, 2008 11:25 AM CDT
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+1
He sees the franchise for the cash cow it ie and he is going to milk it until it dries up and blows away. I don’t see him leaving one thin dime on the table. The only determining factor is time. Interest payments are accruing and he may be forced to pull the trigger to get out from under more debt.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on
Sep 12, 2008 11:33 AM CDT
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Let me remind you...
that Zell is relying on proceeds of this sale for his next debt service installment. Tribune credit ratings are below junk, so less his creditors are willing to make unbelievable concessions, the Trib won’t be getting into any prolonged legal battles. They need the cash, and they need it this year. Period.
by Damen Jackson on
Sep 12, 2008 11:40 AM CDT
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+1
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on
Sep 12, 2008 11:46 AM CDT
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I didn't say...
…he would go through with a protracted legal battle, but sometimes the threat of one can do wonders.
There is plenty MLB would not want bandied about in legal proceedings and Zell has always had a tendency to do the unexpected.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on
Sep 12, 2008 11:46 AM CDT
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Not. Going. To happen.
Everyone already knows the deal — except us — on what’s happening with Zell’s finances. He’s not no leverage; he used it all up to buy the Trib. Pun intended.
by Damen Jackson on
Sep 12, 2008 11:48 AM CDT
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You may be right...
…by my point is this; I don’t see Zell sitting in his chair if MLB owners want him to leave 100 million on the table because they don’t like somebody. I say he gets out of that chair and causes a rukus, unlike anything these owners have had to deal with before (and much of it may be behind the scenes).
If you know anything about this guys history, he does not like to be told what to do with his stuff, regardless of any rules in place.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on
Sep 12, 2008 1:11 PM CDT
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Cubs are small fish versus the rest of the Tribune Company assets
Cubs are going to sell for $1 to $1.4 billion if reports are to be believed. Versus the other sizeable assets of the Tribune Company that is small potatoes. Which lends credence to my view that Zell is going to end this thing sooner rather than later. He’s got bigger fish to fry. If Mark Cuban is problematic for MLB and Bud Selig, then I think he accepts $100 million or so less and moves onto plan B. Zell is starting to be pressed on his debt repayment schedule. He needs cash relatively soon unless he is intent to go through a whole other round of financing to keep this menagerie dangling in the air a while longer.
This isn't 1969...is this 1969?...this isn't 1969, is it?
by MDBNIU on
Sep 12, 2008 1:12 PM CDT
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Common sense...
…would tell you that and that may in fact happen. The wild card is Zell, he just doesn’t follow the typical path of most. The other point is this, he absolutely has no use for the “good ole boy” type of attitude and that is exactly what MLB is from Bud to the owners.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on
Sep 12, 2008 1:19 PM CDT
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I agree, but...
Sam Zell is a smart enough man to pick his battles and have his financial priorities in order. Does he really want to duke it out with MLB over the approval process for Mark Cuban presuming he is indeed the highest bidder? Keep in mind also that the owners of baseball aren’t exactly business slouches. Quite the opposite in fact.
Relative to unloading the Chicago Tribune, the Los Angeles Times and the Tribune television and radio holdings the sale of the Chicago Cubs National League Baseball Club is small potatoes. And some point soon I think Zell says “uncle” and gets the process over with.
This isn't 1969...is this 1969?...this isn't 1969, is it?
by MDBNIU on
Sep 12, 2008 1:44 PM CDT
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I thought Zell's debt service wasn't due again till the end of 2009?
Anyone know the facts?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Sep 12, 2008 1:49 PM CDT
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Where did you get that idea?
Although the Trib has multiple levels of debt, most debt service is due twice a year. The upcoming is in December, which I’m presuming will be paid with the proceeds from NewsDay. The next is the end of May. I haven’t seen the latest numbers, but it’s minimum 500 million. So again, unless buy-side bankers are going to go crazy and give him a pass, Zell needs to find an asset worth a half-billion between now and the end of the year — assuming that the deal would take a few months to be finalized thereafter.
Frankly, once Sam’s naming rights and stadium deals went awry this summer, he pretty much got painted into something of a corner with the Cubs. He’s got no cash, no credit, and very skittish creditors.
by Damen Jackson on
Sep 12, 2008 2:28 PM CDT
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I thought I read...
…that he has a big payment (which is what they are looking towards) due the end of 09.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on
Sep 12, 2008 3:26 PM CDT
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Again...
There is so much subordinate debt out there, that there may be some tranche payable then that I haven’t heard of; I’m not following Zell that closely. However his primary facility is due in May/June of 2009. I’ve heard a couple of numbers, with Fitch using a 593 million figure when they yet again downgraded the Trib a few weeks ago.
The cash flow is just not coming along like Zell hoped. He really, REALLY needs the cash from the Cubs, less he start selling papers off instead. Otherwise he’s looking at defaults, and that’s much worse than leaving a 100 million or two on the table.
by Damen Jackson on
Sep 12, 2008 3:44 PM CDT
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Yeah, that's the payment I was thinking of.
I didn’t know there was another one due early in ’09. In any case, selling off papers would probably be a good thing for Zell; the newspaper industry is dying.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Sep 12, 2008 4:16 PM CDT
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Not that I disagree...
but it’s a little late for Zell to get religion. He’s stuck now.
If he starts telling the markets that’s he’s ready to scrap his paper-oriented recovery plan, he might as well just go ahead and fold the whole thing.
by Damen Jackson on
Sep 12, 2008 4:59 PM CDT
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I understand that...
…and as Al mentioned below, I do think he has a bit of time on his hands.
Zell is like the Pete Rose of the business world. He is going to going to go “all balls” to get the most dough he can, because he feels that is his right owning the asset. He looks at the country club type rules of MLB and scoffs at that and that has been his MO his whole business career.
This may turn out to be a complete non-issue, because maybe Rickets or someone else matches the dough Cuban offers. But, if Cuban’s bid is high enouph to make a substantial difference, he is not just going to sit quietly and let others dictate what he gets for the asset.
I agree it is a battle he (probably) can’t win, but it doesn’t mean he can’t do something to try and influence the owners to do what he wants.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on
Sep 12, 2008 2:02 PM CDT
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Chi-ball really bothers me as a website.
Nobody (that I know of) has any idea who this guy is, or why his sources should be considered credible.
Now, I don’t think it’s quite as wildly incredible as the “Cubbie Hot Stove” guy, but I really have my doubts about anything written there.
by cwyers on
Sep 12, 2008 12:37 PM CDT
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Crane Kenney was asked
in an interview last week if Cuban had a chance of buying the team and he said if Cuban is the highest bidder he didn’t see any reason why he wouldn’t.
by sue369 on Sep 12, 2008 11:22 AM CDT 0 recs
Assuming...
…this story has any teeth, that would be what I would expect Kenney to say. I am sure Zell has instructed his people to create a competitive bid environment to get the highest price.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on
Sep 12, 2008 11:37 AM CDT
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Zell Article
For anyone with too much time on their hands, this is a pretty fascinating article about Zell, his sale of Equity Office and (as it relates to this Cubs sale situation) how he creates bidding wars through deception, creativity and misinformation. The comment about him bringing in Cuban just to drive up the price knowing he had no chance (if it’s true) is nothing compared to what he did to Blackstone. His history of avoiding of taxes through gov’t loopholes is spelled out here in detail.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/11/12/071112fa_fact_bruck?currentPage=all
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra
by wrigley's ivy on Sep 12, 2008 2:18 PM CDT 0 recs
all this hoopla
really dont mean a dang thing. reinsdorf,smeinsdorf his word dont mean nothing. at the end of the day the highest bidder that has the cash asap will buy this club period. if cuban has 1.3 billion dollar in his hands and the others have 1.2 in theirs—cuban will be the owner. all the speculation means nothing really. money talks and zell invested to make money not do favors and hear opinions.
from the mouth of Uecker:
"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."
by cubsluver22 on Sep 12, 2008 4:17 PM CDT 0 recs
You underestimate the power of the MLB owners...
If they don’t want somebody as owner than that somebody ain’t going to own one of their ballclubs. It’s always been that way. The owners have a great deal of power in this matter. The fact that Jerry Reinsdorf detests Mark Cuban is probably enough to torpedo his bid given that Reinsdorf is one of the most powerful and respected owners in the game.
This isn't 1969...is this 1969?...this isn't 1969, is it?
by MDBNIU on
Sep 12, 2008 6:46 PM CDT
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I understand
what your saying but in the life zell’s living money is not everything———its the only thing! at the end of the day benjamin’s will do the talking period end of story.
from the mouth of Uecker:
"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."
by cubsluver22 on
Sep 13, 2008 4:45 PM CDT
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I have to admit.
I just don’t see Zell or any competent business man walking away from 100 million dollars that’s sitting on the table merely because other baseball owners don’t want the high bidder to acquire the team.
Having said that, I recall reading an article about the sale of the Red Sox, and that the successful bidder was someone who wasn’t the highest bidder. The article said that the attorney general of Massachusetts was going to sue, and only refrained when the owner agreed to contribute some money to some other cause. Admittedly, I don’t have a link to the article because I read it months and months ago, so I apologize for just having my memory as a source.
IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!
by Cubfansince1957 on
Sep 12, 2008 10:17 PM CDT
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Different situation
The Red Sox sale was being handled for the Yawkey Estate by John Harringon, who was a long-time buddy of Bud Selig’s. Harrington stood to gain a lot more by doing what Bud wanted than by taking the highest price. After all, Harrington didn’t own a dime of the Sox.
Essentially, Bud Selig controlled the Red Sox sale through John Harrington. He has no such in with Sam Zell.
Everyone keeps citing the Red Sox as an example of how MLB can control sales of teams. But the facts are that the Red Sox were a special situation because they were being sold by someone who didn’t actually own the team.
A better example is the Dodgers being sold to Frank McCourt, despite baseball wanting someone who would actually not buy the club on the “No money down and easy monthly payments” plan. But NewsCorp was selling and told Selig to shove it. (They also mentioned something about TV contracts and who was signing the checks, I believe.)
Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?
by Josh77 on
Sep 12, 2008 11:10 PM CDT
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Also...
… it’s not as if each of these bidders has a check for (insert dollar amount) and Zell just looks at each of the checks and says, “Well, yours is the highest, I’ll take it.”
The financing for a deal this large is quite a bit more complicated than that.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Sep 13, 2008 4:20 AM CDT
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That's true
Zell wants the most money AFTER TAXES. And the amount he wants deducted in taxes is zero.
Harrington justified the sale of the Red Sox to a lower bidder on the grounds that their financing was more solid. According to him, at least.
But my main point stands. The Red Sox sale was unique in that the person selling the team didn’t actually own it and was a good friend of Bud Selig’s. To argue that MLB can block any owner they like and cite the example of the Red Sox is simply incorrect.
by Josh77 on
Sep 14, 2008 3:38 PM CDT
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It's not real
I post on this site called prosportsdaily and they deleted a thread which was created from this story bc it was a poster created site so the information isnt all that reliable.
Someday we'll go all the way.
by Cubbinstrongsince86 on Sep 12, 2008 5:24 PM CDT 0 recs
cuban
i never expected cuban to have a legitimate shot.baseball is too stuffy for a guy like this. too bad i would have liked to see what he could have done.hopefully we get an actual owner who wants to win.somehow the cubs always find a way to screw things uip
by NOMAR on Sep 13, 2008 6:34 AM CDT 0 recs
Bud the Dud Selig and the owners want a conformist...
This isn't 1969...is this 1969?...this isn't 1969, is it?
by MDBNIU on
Sep 13, 2008 11:03 AM CDT
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