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The REAL reason Lou keeps using Howry

Tiny by Doggie Stalker on

With the game on the line.  No one can figure out why a supposedly great manager like Lou  keeps using Bobby Howry again and again in CRUCIAL game situations. Howry is starting to make us nostalgic for Hawkins and Alfonseca but Lou just keeps putting him in like last night. There MUST be some reason behind this so I am wondering if it is one of the following. Feel free to add your own suggestions.

 

Poll
Why is Lou STILL using Howry with less than a 7 run differential ?
A. Howry has compromising photos of Jim Hendry
4 votes
B. Howry has compromising photos of Lou
40 votes
C. Howry has intimate letters between Lou and Rob Dibble ( now we know the truth behind their famous knock down fight)
24 votes
D. Lou sucks at managing the bullpen when he has to pick anyone besides Marmol & Wood.
73 votes

141 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

0 recs | Comment 132 comments

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I think this diary can be removed...

Al???

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Sep 17, 2008 10:30 AM CDT   0 recs

When was.............

…………the last time Lou used him in a truly tight situaton?

"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns

by tville on Sep 17, 2008 10:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

There are better ways to communicate your ideas...

…other than “Howry has photos of Lou in bed with a farm animal” … explain to me why that’s appropriate again?

I’m no fan of putting Howry in a game in a close situation, but there are much better ways to articulate your thoughts than this.

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Sep 17, 2008 10:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I edited the poll responses.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 17, 2008 10:43 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Many Thanks.

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Sep 17, 2008 10:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Last night.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 17, 2008 10:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

WOW!

My bad. I must have slept through the start of the 7th inning………..

"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns

by tville on Sep 17, 2008 11:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It was meant to be satire

but probably a bit over the top for BCB.

Sorry

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 17, 2008 11:00 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought it was a cool thread idea..............

i guess we all have different opinions and that is cool.

"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus

by graceunderpressure on Sep 17, 2008 3:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

why?

its a joke

the pink hat guy is my father

by joeschmitt on Sep 17, 2008 12:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Seriously

why are so many people so sensitive? It was a joke. There are more important things to get hung up on.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 17, 2008 3:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not to the poor violated farm animals!

Oh the zumanity!

Reed Ballgame - best CF in the MLB

by californiachicagoan on Sep 17, 2008 4:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nice.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 17, 2008 10:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And why fans are not good managers or coaches

Sometimes fans do see the obvious as in the here and now and almost always the past where they like everyone else has 20/10 hindsight.

Howry has both proven ability and as I can see current ability. I wonder if he is tipping his pitches for his velocity appears to be relatively the same. He is essentially a one pitch pitcher where he flashes his slider off the plate. I think his command is a bit up.

Thus a manager sticks with a player of proven ability and record and sometimes it does bite you in the butt.

The problem is Cubs will need Howry in the playoffs because even with Samardzija, Cotts, Marmol and Wood that is not enough.

My guess is that we will see Howry alot down the last ten games to see how much trust Piniella has with him.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Sep 17, 2008 10:34 AM CDT   0 recs

You have got to be kidding

How bad does Howry have to be to NOT BE USED IN A GAME SITUATION.
Last night he nearly gives up a homer to CC and walks the next guy on 4 pitches. I have NO IDEA what
is wrong with him but Eyre, Lieber, and yes Murton and others all had proven ability before they ended up in ye old Lou Dog House .

We all KILLED Dusty for using Neffi & Hawkins way too much. Neither was a bad player and each had
proven records but they were badly misused. This is really not JUST about Howry but about Lou just
screwing up when he has to choose anyone beyond Marmol and Wood.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 17, 2008 10:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't really think there's any evidence...

…Hawkins isn’t a bad player. Sure, it seems unlikely that one guy has two back-to-back fluke success seasons, if you’re only looking at that one guy. But given how many pitchers there are in baseball, it doesn’t seem too unlikely that at one point a guy stumbles into back-to-back years of totally unwarranted success. And beyond that I don’t see a whole lot of spectacular to offset the potential for suck.

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Sep 17, 2008 11:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

current ability???

Most of the time, Howry’s ability includes home-runs to right, left, center, and issuing 4-6 pitch walks.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Sep 17, 2008 11:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's funny.

Howry actually has the lowest walk rate of any Cubs reliever still on the roster (Lieber’s was lower). True story!

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Sep 17, 2008 11:17 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ok. I certainly believe

that you know what you’re talking about.

But those walks come at TERRIBLE times. Maybe this is the problem: Howry is a completely un-clutch pitcher. Putting him in a high-stress situation = home-runs and walks.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Sep 17, 2008 11:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not to mention that...

It’s hard to walk people if you’re throwing them pitches that they can hit out of the park.

by hmlee on Sep 17, 2008 11:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

like watching a bad horror movie.

DON’T GO IN THERE!

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Sep 17, 2008 2:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's Ryan Braun!

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 17, 2008 2:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 17, 2008 2:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think your right

n/t

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 17, 2008 11:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Really? GIVE US A BREAK MAN!

Bob Howry sucks 9 out of 10 appearences. There is no way to say his “record” indicates he needs to be used. Scott Eyre should still be in this pen (struggling or not) and Howry should have been given his walking papers a LONG time ago. He is washed the _ up. I do like that Lou took his arse out though quickly when he so effectively got Sabathia to fly out and JUST miss a HR.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 17, 2008 3:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well said Ivy.

If Howry can get his command back to ’07 form, he will be of much more value than any unproven arms in the pen, or a non starting Marquis.

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Sep 17, 2008 10:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe it's because for the past four seasons...

…Howry has been a good relief pitcher, and Lou is letting that inform his decision rather than a recent bad patch?

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Sep 17, 2008 10:39 AM CDT   0 recs

Yabbut...

… this isn’t just one or two bad outings for Howry, it’s virtually this entire season, and in blowouts AND close games. How many more of these do we need to see?

Scott Eyre should still be on this team and Howry should have been the one let go.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 17, 2008 10:44 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

At this point Eyre is only useful as a LOOGY and Lou doesn't use LOOGYs.

He had no place on the ballclub.

And you say “a whole season,” but really it’s only 66 innings. That’s really not a lot of innings to establish a player’s true talent level from. Howry’s a much better pitcher than his W-L record or his ERA would indicate so far this year. His strikeouts have dropped a bit, but so have his walks. What’s really killing him are the hits, and he’s NOT RESPONSIBLE for those, because he has no control over what happens to a batted ball.

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Sep 17, 2008 10:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lefty Setup... LOOGY, eh?

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Sep 17, 2008 10:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Cotts is middle relief/setup.

He’s actually faced more RHB than LHB – 69 to 58. Most LOOGYs see a 50/50 split, maybe a 40/60 split. But if Cotts is facing more righties than lefties, it’s hard to call him a LOOGY.

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by cwyers on Sep 17, 2008 10:59 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Pure speculation..

But I’m not sure Cotts makes the playoff roster any other way, unless Lou can trust him to get a big out against a lefty. I think Howry was in last night to see what he would do in a ‘big’ spot. Marshall will be there as a middle/lefty reliever, and you only need one long man on your 11(?) man staff..

Rotation: Z, Demp, Harden, TR Lilly
Middle/Long: Marshall
Set-up: Marmol, Spellcheck
Closer: Wood

Leaves 3 spots for Marquis, Howry, Cotts, Gaudin, and I think Guzman may get an audition these last couple of weeks.

by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Sep 17, 2008 11:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think Marquis is in already per Piniella

And then the question still is 10 or 11 pitchers.

With the starters and Marquis and Marshall in long relief the Cubs could go with 10 pitchers and 15 position players. This would allow them to keep Hoffpauir, Pie or Hill

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Sep 17, 2008 11:59 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Uh, well if those are the choices...

…I’ll take Pie in a second.

"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 17, 2008 11:59 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

half a second.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Sep 17, 2008 1:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Plus, Cotts' splits against lefties...

…are markedly worse than his numbers vs. righties. He has a .840 OPS vs. lefties and a .689 OPS vs. righties. It’s hard to believe because it would seem that his delivery would make it really hard for a left-handed hitter to pick up the ball, but there it is.

"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 17, 2008 11:38 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sampling issue, if you ask me.

Platoon splits are especially tricky – you have to remember that your sample size is the number of PAs in the smaller split, not the number of PAs overall. So it’s very difficult to get a significant sample size for stuff like that.

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Sep 17, 2008 11:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I always seem to fall prey to that when looking at splits.

"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 17, 2008 11:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

cmon.

he serves up homeruns like veggie-subs to Fielder.

I’ve been in favor of letting Pie prove himself. I’ve been in favor of letting Dome prove himself. I wanted Murton to be able to prove himself.

How much of a leash does Howry GET?

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Sep 17, 2008 11:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Looking at Fielder

he doesn’t have too many veggie-subs…so not many HRs in your analogy.

by Arbusto on Sep 17, 2008 1:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Fielder being a vegetarian

that’s the only kind of sub he gets.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Sep 17, 2008 1:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Wow, that doesn't show at all

And shows how little I know about anything.

by Arbusto on Sep 17, 2008 1:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Surely

He has not cut out dairy, I’m thinking he’s been substituting good old Burgers and Fries for mountains of cheese, ice cream, and butter soaked bread. Heck even tofu isn’t too bad if you slabber it with cheese and butter.

by StevenABQ on Sep 17, 2008 5:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think the reason many of us have given up on Howry...

…is that, by and large, most of those hits don’t seem to be dribblers down the line or bloops that drop in between the second baseman and right fielder. They’re balls that are absolutely smoked deep into the outfield – often at the worst possible time. I’d also point out that Howry has already given up more home runs this season than he has in any other season in his career. (Granted, it’s only one more at this point in time.)

All that said, you bring up a good point that may explain why Lou still appears to be sticking with Howry. Lou likes guys who throw strikes and don’t issue walks. I’ve heard him say on several occasions that he’d rather a reliever make a hitter earn his pay by hitting the ball rather than drawing a walk.

"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 17, 2008 11:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Upon reading the rest of this thread...

…I’d like to delete the phrase “into the outfield” from my second sentence above. That is all.

"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 17, 2008 11:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lou NEEDS to use LOOGYs in certain situations.

66 innings is a lot for a middle reliever.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 17, 2008 1:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Cwyers

66 innings is definitely a lot of innings when the game is on the line in 45-50 of them. That isa lot of opportunities to screw the pooch for this team.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 17, 2008 3:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nice sig

Reed Ballgame - best CF in the MLB

by californiachicagoan on Sep 17, 2008 4:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks.

Only a select few get it.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 17, 2008 10:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

last night on ESPN...

I was watching an update of a game in progress and the pitchers in the game at that time were Eyre and Ohman. Oh the memories…

by iCub on Sep 17, 2008 10:59 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This is a good example...

…of a manager liking or disliking a players approach. Clearly, both Howry and Eyre have had good success in years past, but Lou has chosen to give Howry a much longer period to show he can find his old self.

Lou just likes how Howry goes about his business and he didn’t like the way Eyre did. I am not saying this means Howry will snap out of it, or Eyre could not have, just that all managers have favorites when it comes to a player’s approach.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 17, 2008 11:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Last season he sucked too...

had a bit more success than this year but certainly began to show us how bad he is capable of being.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 17, 2008 3:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Damn Red Bull.

"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 17, 2008 11:38 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

my + 1000 comment was to Al's post.

Howry sucks and Eyre never got a chance. Plus………we need a LOOGY right now don’t we??

by plenz on Sep 17, 2008 10:49 AM CDT   0 recs

Howry

Seems like a reasonable thing for Lou to figure out if he’s going to be able to rely on Howry or not. Its not unreasonable to think that Howry could right the ship. He’s had bouts of horrid performance only to return to his dominant stuff. This doesn’t seem like its going to happen but right now the Cubs need RH relievers, especially if Gaudin remains on the sidelines. Its a perfectly reasonable thing for Lou to use the remaining games, even before the Cubs clinch, to see who he can and cannot rely on. Putting Howry into the game in a key situation isn’t about last night’s game, its about Lou seeing if Howry can handle those situations in the playoffs… heck it might even be about Lou figuring out if Howry should even be on the playoff roster.

So maybe Lou was willing to sacrafice last nights game… big deal, the Cubs had an 8 game lead. The Cubs are going to the playoffs. Its about them being in the playoffs with the best roster and the players who are going to take this team the farthest.

DmL

by dmlichte on Sep 17, 2008 10:59 AM CDT   0 recs

of course...Piniella like any good manager is two or ten steps ahead of the mob

Fans see what they see.

But why. If Howry is not right then what options does Piniella have? He has some but are they better.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Sep 17, 2008 12:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Options

Guzman might be one. Marquis is going to be on the playoff roster but at this point I’d venture to guess that it will be as a reliever. So RH relievers right now would include Samardzjia, Marquis, Marmol and Wood. Where the thinking is with Marshall and Cotts is beyond me. But if those two make it and Gaudin is healthy than you’ve got six relievers. Add that to four starters and for the first round of the playoffs you don’t really need any more pitching.

by dmlichte on Sep 17, 2008 1:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

EVERYONE IS FREAKING BETTER THAN HOWRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is something wrong with makinga statement that he is the right pitcher to bring in. Had you said there were no other options because they had all pitched the night before or something fine, but COME ON…you are ACTUALLY sayinig that he is a serviceable pitcher?

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 17, 2008 3:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm sensing a theme to your posts.

"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 17, 2008 4:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I love that about you daver...

you pick up on those things that slip by others!

:)

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 17, 2008 10:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Were you thinking....

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 17, 2008 10:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree...

and I’ll think we’ll see consistent use of Howry down the stretch to determine if he’s able to pitch in the playoffs.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Sep 17, 2008 12:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The fact that you're blowing your spleen out of your eyeballs...

…doesn’t come remotely close to making you right. More to the point, it doesn’t come close to making you persuasive. Elsewhere in this thread, we’ve had honest and open discussions of the facts at hand. Rather than commenting on the specifics of any arguement, you’ve just gone sickhouse on anyone who disagrees with you. I hope you understand how that might not be persuasive.

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Sep 17, 2008 3:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Who the hell am I trying to persude Cwyers?

You and I have never agreed on anything. Your numbers don’t mean squat to me. I “blow my spleen out” cause Howry is a tired piece of horse dookie and does not deserve to see the mound ever again. Parade all your pointless numbers out there that you want. He is done and for him to get playing time (aka chances to blow the game for this team) based on his “history” is a GD joke. I also get frustrated when people actually argue that this man has business being in a tight game. A pitchers “history” need not stretch farther back than his last performance. It is a manager