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Thoughts on the NY Stadiums

As a fan of ballparks, I decided in the spring that I would make a trip to NY in the fall, having never been and wanting to get to games at both Yankee Stadium and Shea (ya, even Shea). It worked out particularly well with there being a few plausable weekend this month where both teams were in town and ultimately I decided on this past weekend w/ the Cubs at Shea on Monday. I have several friends who have recently moved to NY so we planned for a group gathering.

 

I ended up going to the Saturday game at Yankee Stadium versus the Orioles. Public transportation in NY is excellent if you take some time to learn the subway/train system or ask around. We hopped the subway early (after a good NY bagel) and headed up to the Bronx. We were greeted by lots of congestion and construction as the new Yankee Stadium is going up across from the current ballpark. The new stadium looks gorgeous from the outside, more or less what one would expect if you were trying to replicate the old one w/ modern ballpark architecture. We started walking around the ballpark and towards the monuments but were quickly told that the line was closed, nearly 1 1/2 hours before first pitch. We took in the ballpark, saw it from different angles, saw people chipping paint off the RF foul pole, etc. The concourses reminded me a lot of the old Chicago Stadium, cramped quarters in the cinderblock halls. Its certainly a throwback to a different era and there are only so many coats of paint you can put on a building, but if you are a fan of the game you really have to appriciate it.

 

Reggie Jackson was out in the bleachers for a little while and that drew a big crowd. You could see in the overall behavior of the fans that it was like spending one final afternoon in the old family house. Fans had their cameras and everyone wanted one last picture. The game itself was secondary to the events. Despite lots of hard hit balls and a good number of runners on base, no one could score. Once the game was official (after the 5th w/ a 0-0 tie) they play a video, usually a former player pulling a lever which changes the "remaining games" counter. Bob Sheppard, who has been in failing health of late, was video taped a day prior to the game. Sheppard aside (and it was great to include him), one would expect a grander way for them to do the countdown. The Yanks pushed a run across in the ninth to win 1-0. Fans and players reacted like the team had just won the series as police lined the field, keeping fans in their place. Overall, the crowd was pretty subdued and there were a lot of empty seats for the final weekend but we experienced the brash, outspoken ("Abreu is a lazy bum") tone that one would expect.

 

The Monday game against the Cubs at Shea was a sharp contrast. We were unable to get to the ballpark early, sitting down just as Soriano ended his at-bat. We took the John Rocker express to Flushing (the #7 train), a group of six of us clad in Cubs gear. Mets fans did their best to come up with funny anti-Cubs comments but clearly whit is not their strongsuit.Fans sitting around us were friendly for the most part. Like Yankee fans they get on their players and when Carlos Beltran crashed into a wall you'd think they just lost a family member. One guy was shrieking at the top of his lungs "get up, get up".

 

Shea as a whole might be one of the more sterile baseball envionments I've ever been to. The sentiments that the ballpark is a dump is overstated, its not a dump, its just got little if any character. The stadium feels huge with the upperdeck seemingly towering over everything else. But in general this ballpark does nothing to bring fans out and does not add to your baseball experience. It subtracts from your wallet at the concession stands as most food items cost about $9 or so, as does a beer. There were certainly videos between innings commemorating the historical events of the ballpark but I noticed no big event during or after the game counting down to the end of Shea. Citifield, visable beyond CF looks to be a tremendous ballpark. the crowd at Shea was about 1/2 the size of the crowd at Yankee Stadium, but clearly this was a penant race game for them as they got into every big situation. The ballpark got pretty loud considering it was less than 1/2 full. However by the time the 7th inning came, with the Cubs holding a nice (yet not insurmountable lead), many fans had already left. Mets fans are brutally honest about their team and they are eager to share that.

 

Everyone knows what happened during the game. I was actually getting food when Marquis hit the grandslam. There was a nice Cubs representation, several hundred strong.

 

What is clear is that no one in this city will miss Shea while the move from Yankee Stadium is a big deal. Bars across the city welcomed fans in on Sunday to see the Yankee home finale while Mets fans are clearly glad to see Shea go. Little attention is being paid to the final week at Shea and no one seems to mind that. It will be interesting to see how Mets fans react next spring if the opening of Citifield does not garner the attention that will be paid to the opening of new Yankee Stadium.

 

DmL

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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I volunteer

to press the plunger to implode Shea stadium.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Sep 24, 2008 11:25 AM CDT   0 recs

No implosion

I know that Yankee Stadium will be torn down. The city of NY prohibits buildings being blown up (not sure if this is a post 9/11 thing or not). I assume the same thing holds true for Shea.

DmL

by dmlichte on Sep 24, 2008 11:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

When the Cardinals took down old Busch Stadium...

… they had a contest to see who would get to push the button to start the wrecking ball. I entered and was a “finalist” — I won a limited edition Cardinals lithograph which I made some money on via eBay.

Oh, if I had won that contest. Would have shown up in my Cub jacket. That would have been great fun.

Wonder if the NY teams will have a similar contest?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 24, 2008 1:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I wish you had won. That would have

been a great photo with the caption “Cub Fan Deals Final Blow to Busch Stadium!”

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 24, 2008 1:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm sure there's something legal you would've had to sign.

Or they just say, “Good luck getting out alive.”

But, yes, that would’ve made a great picture. “Cub Fan to Cards: Blow It Out Your…Stadium”

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Sep 24, 2008 1:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

How do you think you'll feel when this happens to Wrigley?

Many of us will be around when that happens. It could be 30+ years. May or may not have a silly contest but it will stir some emotions in people never felt before.

I have first hand experience with this: Chicago Stadium; the Blackhawks have always been my overall favourite, with the Cubs a close 2nd. I did show up that fateful day, Friday Feb 3rd, 1995. I got a chance to tell Bill Wirtz to his face that I hoped he burned in hell. Only bright side was a chance to say hi to the late-great Keith Magnuson. I {thought} tearing down of Chicago Stadium was one of the worst days of my life……until 9 days later, when my mother died.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Sep 24, 2008 2:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think it will.

Instead, I think they rebuild parts of it at a time, on the same location.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Sep 24, 2008 3:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You're probably right at least for a few more decades

But there will come a time when building codes and the overall finance of the sport will overrun this idea; including refurbishment. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you for the most part, I just think there will be an end to Wrigley as we know it one day; that day could be more than 30 years off.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Sep 24, 2008 3:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

maybe.

I’ll shed a tear, tho.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Sep 24, 2008 3:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yep, it was sad

to see the ‘skeleton’ of the Old Chicago Stadium. I rarely come back in winter, but I was back for Thanksgiving that particular year to see the shell of the grand old building as it was dismantled.

There was nothing grand about Shea Stadium, though. Unless you like peeling paint.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Sep 24, 2008 5:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I already know how I'll feel because it's already happened

The bleacher “expansion” project a few years ago did a pretty good job of ripping my heart out. Even though I’m outside the park for most of the games now, I did go to quite a few games when I first moved to Chicago in 1990, especially when the tickets were only $6.

Yeah, the old bleachers were a dump, the bathrooms were atrocious, etc. etc. and yeah, they did a great job on blending the new with the old, the aesthetics are quite pleasing, etc. etc. but still – there was something about the old bleachers, and being able to stand in the back walkway, lean against the fence and discuss the meaning of life with fellow fans when you weren’t busy yelling at Derrick May or grimacing everytime Heathcliff Slocumb threw a pitch.

The new bleachers certainly added several years to the overall life expectancy of Wrigley Field, but it lost a little of its soul in doing so.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 24, 2008 11:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't see it that way.

I was very worried that might happen — and to me, it hasn’t. Yes, you’ve lost some of the standing room area in the bleachers. But to me, the feeling is still the same, even though my friends and I switched locations from right field to left field. It’s the people that make the bleachers what they are, yourself included.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 25, 2008 8:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I find the bleachers to be more comfortable than ever

Just get rid of the smoking….but I understand your POV.

But life does march on. And, if Wrigley had to be rebuilt, I’d feel it too. But — if the infrstructure proves to be insufficent in the future, something would have to be done — and not a ‘cosmetic’ rebuilding, such as took place with Yankee Stadium. The same 1920’s ‘innards’ were there, that’s why, a few years back — one old supporting post snapped, falling through a false ceiling and into the grandstand. The stadium had to be inspected for safety. (And I don’t have to remind you about Wrigley’s ‘netting’ to catch concrete..)

That, was the beginning of the end of Yankee Stadium

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Sep 25, 2008 10:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

dern it ... i wanted to be first

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Sep 24, 2008 11:26 AM CDT   0 recs

In contrast, what would happen if it was the last weekend Wrigley was open

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Sep 24, 2008 11:26 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

BTW, DML, nice report there .. glad you could be there to watch it all happen

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Sep 24, 2008 11:31 AM CDT   0 recs

Thanks

Wish i would have had time to meet up w/ Jessica and others but it was a pretty packed weekend. It was also my first time to NYC aside from a transfer at La Guardia years ago.

DmL

by dmlichte on Sep 24, 2008 11:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The addition of the two new New York ballparks....

…is going to press the issue of what to do with Wrigley Field. I think an extreme makeover of Wrigley Field is going to happen within 5 years. Either that or the Cubs are going to build a brand new baseball palace. Don’t laugh because I do think that is a distinct possibility.

by MDBNIU on Sep 24, 2008 11:35 AM CDT   0 recs

The sale of the Cubs

is whats going to press this issue. I feel as though little has been said about the Wrigley sale issue of late. But I imagine that one of the first decisions by the new owner is the future of Wrigley.

DmL

by dmlichte on Sep 24, 2008 11:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Wrigley's fate

Since the new team owner is still expected to buy Wrigley as well AFAIK, it certainly seems logical that they would plan to keep using it for the foreseeable future. The Cubs have been somewhat following the Fenway model (gradual and steady refurb, add-on seating and attractions, put more outside for fans) and I would expect that to continue. Boston has a very nice stadium now that still feels like an old park. The gradual cleanup and beautification has made my visits there very enjoyable (though the seats in some sections need to be replaced). The only question with Wrigley is the wear on the support structure. If it will cost too much to ensure that no more concrete chunks fall, then the new owners will have a problem that will require something drastic to occur.

In any case, a full inspection of the stadium will be (or possibly already has been) made before the sale is finalized, even if Wrigley is sold separately from the team. I would hope and expect that the new owners would have a refurbish/rebuild plan locked down before we officially know who they are.

by Qixotl on Sep 24, 2008 12:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I know this sounds weird

But the thing that worries me most about Wrigley, and the potential of it being replaced, is the loyalty of the fans. For years now, I have been hearing from Sox fans that the only reason us Cubs fans fill up the stadium day in and day out is because of Wrigley field…. I hope that isnt true, because the truth will be revealed someday when they close down The Friendly Confines and open up Dell Park or something along the lines of a big corporate monster name

"This balls got a chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannce, GONE!" - Pat Hughes

by SouthsideCUBSfan on Sep 24, 2008 12:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You don't think a new park would carry the Wrigley name

like the new Busch and Yankee Stadiums are/will?

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Sep 24, 2008 12:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If you build it, they will come.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 24, 2008 12:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think that theory has lost some of it's legs

when 40,000 Cub fans show up for 2 games scheduled at the last minute in another park 90 miles from the host city. There is no Wrigley in Miwaukee or any other city in the country and we still seem to outdraw any other visiting fan group.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Sep 24, 2008 12:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I call that ENVY

Name an excuse and its uttered by a fan of that team. They’re so hung up on the Cubs its silly. There’s a guy here at work that went on a rant in an email to a colleague about the Cubs; just today. My colleague ,a die hard ChiSox fan is nothing like what most of us hear about. He truly respects the Cubs and wishes them well. This other guy? Well lets just say not so much. I’m going to ask my colleague to forward that email. If he does, I will copy it verbatum into this site for all of you to see, just a sample of how ChiSox fans are obsessed with the Cubs.

But to the point of Wrigley. It’s a drawing point; an excellent supporting actor if I may call it that. WGN made the Cubs famous. SoapBox rant: Funny how one team in ChiTown can totally capitalize on TV exposure when another (the one with the indian head logo) could not figure that out for half a century.

The ‘lovable losers’ is a side attribute. It was Ryne Sandberg, Harry Caray, Arne Harris, boats on the lake, hat shots, pretty ladies in the stands, the marquee, one-of-a-kind scoreboard, day baseball, on grass with the beautiful ivy all at the same time that made the Cubs famous.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Sep 24, 2008 3:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Little has been said since

the option of selling it separate from the Cubs has been exhausted. Now after the [team, park and 25%CSN] sale, the talks will resurface.

Please note, that the sale does not have to happen this year. I believe Zell has the monies to cover his debt payments through 2Q09. I heard the Baltimore Sun is the next [big] entity to go.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Sep 24, 2008 2:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What no attack on Felix Pie ?

You always manage to bring up something not directly related to a topic to push your favorite issues ( Pie sucks, Wood is not
reliable. the bullpen sucks. Harden and Lou are gods and of course Wrigley is a dump that will be trashed for a new park.

Wrigley IS the huge selling point of the Cubs and I doubt someone who is going to pay 700 million plus is going to have a spare couple of hundred million to a billion to do that big a renovation and zero chance they build a new park. The financing of Yankee in particular is
a huge political time bomb here and public financing stadiums in directly or indirectly will not happen in the current economic squeeze.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 24, 2008 12:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not to go in another direction
Wrigley IS the huge selling point of the Cubs

I think we all overestimate this. You’re talking dollars and cents here and fortunately or unfortunately tickets sold plays a smaller and smaller part of team revenue. The cost the Cubs pay not having a ballpark w/o amenities such as a stadium club, w/o a TON of signage and w/o revenue from parking is not even close to being offset by the fact that the Cubs sell out every game and have very high ticket costs.

DmL

by dmlichte on Sep 24, 2008 12:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

sorry

should read “the cost the cubs pay having a ballpark w/o…”

by dmlichte on Sep 24, 2008 12:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I understand that

but again they are NOT going to get financing to move or for any makeover that the area does not want which is almost anything.
Sorry but the Cubs simply can’t realistically threaten “give us the money ( financing) & permits or we move to the burbs or Florida”.
They do not have leverage in this fight and are not going to have political support. No public entity is going to pay for a new park
which could run a BILLION dollars as Yankee Stadium has.

I think they will follow the Fenway model and do as much as they can to maximize what they have and add on but a lot of this
will involve the land OUTSIDE the park ( which they may well connect by walkway) .

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 24, 2008 1:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's big but not huge

Estimates are $300M or so for the park. Overall is will exceed $1B, most of that obviously being the team.

The huge draw is being THE owner when the Cubs finally “do it”. That honor may just go to Mr. Sam Zell, indirectly in a way.

Bottom line is they will stay in Wrigley until it is financially impossible. Hey, sports business drove my beloved Blackhawks out of Chicago Stadium which was just as unique for hockey as Wrigley is for baseball. If it happened at 1800 W. Madison, it could happen at 1060 W. Addison.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Sep 24, 2008 3:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Pound sand

I’ve attended hundreds of games at Wrigley over the past 31 years. Don’t go attacking my knowledge and love of the ballpark. Fact is Wrigley is either going to see an extreme makeover within a few years or be replaced outright. If you don’t care to believe that then I don’t give a rat’s ass.

by MDBNIU on Sep 24, 2008 1:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Don’t laugh because I do think that is a distinct possibility.

Wait. Why am I not supposed to laugh again?

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Sep 24, 2008 3:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Shea Countdown

I did not notice the countdown stuff at Shea on Monday night, but they did it before the game last night (with about 20 other pregame ceremonies). Howard Johnson and Mr. Met pulled off the number off the CF wall.

Frankly, I don’t find Shea to be a bad stadium. It functions and you certainly can see the game well there. You can’t say the same for Yankee Stadium. Esthetically, it is nowhere near what Milwaukee Country Stadium was like in the latter days (easily the worst pro stadium I have ever been to). Still, Citi Field looks gorgeous from the outside. I can’t wait to see inside next year on Labor Day weekend for the Cubs series.

by Qixotl on Sep 24, 2008 11:40 AM CDT   0 recs

I remember a comment...

…that I heard one time (I wish I could remember who said it) that stated that Shea was a perfect example of 1960’s Soviet architecture. Even just watching the games on TV, the place looks horrible. I won’t be sad to see it go.

by CJElven on Sep 24, 2008 11:48 AM CDT   0 recs

And just think, the new stadiums will only cost NY taxpayers $1B+

And it’s not very clear how the city will benefit from this.

Not saying both stadiums didn’t need to be replaced, I just find it odd that in a market like that, with payrolls like that, that the clubs were able to hoodwink the city into using public funds to build them.

by Wreckard on Sep 24, 2008 3:10 PM CDT   0 recs

Quiet frankly, Yankee doesn't need to be replaced

I think the whole motive behind them getting a new stadium is for them to compete with the Mets who will get Citi. If the Mets stuck with Shea, I am sure New Yankee wouldn’t have been built

2008 Cubs: Who needs nine innings, when you only need a 7th?

by Chanman25 on Sep 24, 2008 6:37 PM CDT   0 recs

well...

… I can’t speak for the timing of it and who got what when. In general, though, my opinion of the ballpark itself is that it in need of improvement on a level that a fresh coat of paint just won’t do. Whether an overhaul is possible, I’m not sure. In general, this was a ballpark that isn’t in great shape.

DmL

by dmlichte on Sep 24, 2008 9:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The ballpark is going to be essentially torn down and rebuilt foul pole to foul pole

Whether it’s somehow done piecemeal or all at once over a couple of years, who knows. The alternative is a brand new ballpark somewhere in the city. The fact is Wrigley needs to be brought into the modern age or else it can’t keep existing. I’ve been to upwards of 1,000 games at Wrigley over the past 31 years. The Tribune Company has done a marvelous job of aiding amenities and band-aids. But at some point the thing needs to be reconstructed. Club suites, modern and expansive clubhouses, replaced steel and concrete infrastructure, modern restrooms and walkways, etc. They spent a shitload on Fenway Park and they will have to do the same at Wrigley. Probably a $400 million plus job.

by MDBNIU on Sep 24, 2008 10:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Um

I don’t think they’re talking about Wrigley…

by Wreckard on Sep 24, 2008 10:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

correct

I was disagreeing that yankee stadium didn’t need to be rebuilt.

As for Wrigley, I agree that a complete overhaul is necessary.

DmL

by dmlichte on Sep 25, 2008 9:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yankee Stadium had been rebuilt already, it couldn't be rebuilt 'again'

see my earlier post.

I tend to agree with Blue Mike — a complete rebuild of Wrigley will probably take place in the next 10 years.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Sep 25, 2008 10:40 AM CDT   0 recs

I agree with you.

It’ll look the same cosmetically — the marquee, the bleachers, the ivy, the scoreboard, the bricks — but will have all-new infrastructure.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 25, 2008 12:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That would be both sad...and great.

Ah, I guess I’m just bein’ a little maudlin about the march of time. And excited about the possibilities the future may bring. Pathetic contradicatory, I know.

by CJElven on Sep 25, 2008 4:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

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