Comparing Dodgers and Cubs or apples and oranges

by Ivy Walls on Sep 29, 2008 1:53 PM CDT

Starting lineups by position:

Catcher (slight edge to Cubs with Soto's power #'s and run production)

Martin (.286)13-HR 69-RBI (.781 OPS) .365 CERA 23% CS Soto (.285) 23-HR 86-RBI (.886-OPS) ..380-CERA 26% CS

First Base (slight edte to Cubs with Lee's more power and fielding % plus experience)

Looney (.283) 13-HR 90-RBI (.772-OPS) .991 F% ZR .842 Lee (.291) 20-HR 90-RBI (.823-OPS) .993 F% .860 ZR

2nd Base (edge goes to DeRosa due to power #'s and versatility)

Kent (.280) 12-HR 59-RBI (.745-OPS) .976F% .809 ZR DeRosa (.285) 21-HR 87-RBI (.857-OPS) .976F% .814-ZR

Shortstop (if Furcal is healthy and ready edge goes to them otherwise it is push)

Furcal (just returned to the lineup after being out for most of season Theriot (.307) 1-HR 39 RBI (.745-OPS) .945 F% .816 ZR

Third Base (Edge to Ramirez power and run production)

Blake (.274) 21-HR 81-RBI .808-OPS .985F% .764-ZR Ramirez (.289) 27-HR 111-RBI .944 F% .748-ZR

Left Field (Edge to Ramirez)

Ramirez (.332) 37-HR 121-RBI 1.031 OPS .985 F% .806-ZR Soriano (.280) 29-HR 75-RBI .876-OPS .975 F% .821-ZR

Centerfield ( slightest edge to Edmonds based on OPS, ZR and experience)

Kemp (.290) 18-HR 76 RBI ,.799 OPS .981 F% ..849 ZR Edmonds (.235) 20-HR 56-RBI .822-OPS .975 F% .856-ZR

Rightfield (Edge to Ethier more power and batting)

Ethier (.305) 20-HR 77-RBI .885-OPS 1.000 F% .884-ZR Fukudome (.257 10-HR 56-RBI .738-OPS .980 F% .894-ZR

Starting Pitching

Starters (Cubs in each game except possibly Z depending on his command)

Lowe (14-11) 3.24 ERA 1.13 WHIP Dempster (17-6) 2.96 1.21 WHIP

Billingly (16-10) 3.14 ERA 1.34 WHIP Zambrano (14-6) 3.91 !.29 WHIP

Kuroda (9-10) 3.73 ERA 1.22 WHIP Harden (10-2) 2.07 ERA 1.06 WHIP

Maddux (8-13) 4.13 ERA 1.21 WHIP Lilly (17-9) 4.09 ERA 1.23 WHIP

Relievers (Cubs)

Closer Broxtone (3.13) 14 SV 13 HLD Wood (3.26) ERA 34 SV

Setup Saito 92.49) 18 SV Marmol (2.68) ERA 7 SV 30 HLD

LOOGY Beimel (2.02 ERA) 12 HLD COTTS (4.29) 9 HLD

Staff: Proctor, Wade, McDonald, Toronsco, Kershaw

Howry, Samardzija, Marshall, Marquis

BENCH (Cubs)

LA: Ellis(C), Sweeney(1B), DeWitt(2B) Berroa(SS) Garciaparra(3B), Pierre(OF) Young (OF)

Cubs Blanco (C), Ward(1B), Fontenot(2B), Cedeno(SS), Johnson(OF), Pie (OF)

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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I think Manny and sori are closer than people make it out to be.

Sure Manny can hit but fozie is a pretty good slugger himself. I see Soriano stealing lots of bases this postseason which are very valuable.

by xene on Sep 29, 2008 2:04 PM CDT 0 recs

Manny being Manny at the plate is in a league with Pujols and Chipper

Soriano when hot is in his own league but when not he is a good player but not Manny

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Sep 29, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up 0 recs

well, think about it this way

Manny hits a single.

Soriano singles. He can steal 2nd. He can steal third.

by xene on Sep 29, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up 0 recs

Soriano can steal a base, for sure, but might not be running as much given...

…his injuries this year. But I think you have hit on an attribute of his that can help us in a tight playoff game. However, overall hitting skills and production Manny is a far superior player.

Let’s hope Soriano has a hot streak starting wed. and lasting for 2-3 more weeks.

by DudeVf11 on Sep 29, 2008 10:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

I respectfully disagree

Ask any pitchers in the majors who they would rather face at ANY time, and the answer will always be Manny. Not even close. I know, I’ve asked pitchers? It will be cool to see Manny and Manny jr. playing against each other though. A real clinic on how to play left field for sure!

"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus

by graceunderpressure on Sep 29, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

Wait, are you saying pitchers would rather face Manny than Soriano?

The Chicago Cubs: 2008 Central Division Champions

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 29, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up 0 recs

I hope not

Manny is the most underated player in the history of baseball… seriously

"This balls got a chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannce, GONE!" - Pat Hughes

by SouthsideCUBSfan on Sep 29, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up 0 recs

Wait, do you mean "UNDERrated" or "OVERrated"?

The Chicago Cubs: 2008 Central Division Champions

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 29, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up 0 recs

We have always

been at war with East Eurasia.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Sep 29, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up 0 recs

Wait, do you mean....ah, screw it.

The Chicago Cubs: 2008 Central Division Champions

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 29, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up 0 recs

very UNDERATED

perhaps the top 2 or 3 most clutch hitters EVER

"This balls got a chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannce, GONE!" - Pat Hughes

by SouthsideCUBSfan on Sep 29, 2008 6:37 PM CDT up 0 recs

there is no such thing

as a clutch hitter, so that doesn’t impress me.

by scarymonsters85 on Sep 30, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up 0 recs

Well, I can't agree with that.

Don’t get me wrong – Manny is a great, great hitter. (I’ll leave the “clutch” debate for another day.) But I don’t understand how you can call a player as well known as Manny, who receives as much or more media coverage than nearly any other player in the major leagues, “underrated.”

The Chicago Cubs: 2008 Central Division Champions

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 30, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up 0 recs

No, I screwed up my post. I meant they would rather face Sori, Sorry!

"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus

by graceunderpressure on Sep 29, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up 0 recs

No question about it...

…and Manny is the kind of guy who will drive a pitcher’s pitch out of the park, and you will never see Soriano do that.

Soriano can get very hot especially when opposing pitchers are giving him pitches to hit. The problem is, he can also go into the deep freeze when pitchers execute the right game plan against him.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 29, 2008 10:30 PM CDT up 0 recs

Manny is in a whole world onto himself...

The only close comparison to Manny is Albert Pujols.

Oh please let this dubious bullpen be good enough in the playoffs...

by MDBNIU on Sep 29, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up 0 recs

Whom the Cubs have pitched to and around many times.

The Chicago Cubs: 2008 Central Division Champions

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 29, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up 0 recs

Woody challenged him

and won. Did the same to Fielder.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Sep 29, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up 0 recs

As a hitter yes

but he can’t field and does not run well.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 29, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up 0 recs

Agree with you on the first half

Manny is in his own world, but Pujols is way scarier to me.

There's magic in the ivy...

by halfblindcubbiegirl on Sep 29, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up 0 recs

Shouldn't offensive numbers be compared

based on where they hit in the lineup and not on what position they play?

by daeviant on Sep 29, 2008 2:22 PM CDT 0 recs

Comparing positions...

…is nice, but does not always determine how teams match up. You have to look at how a pitching staff matches up against a lineup, and how a teams running game could either flourish or be shut down by the opposing pitchers holding guys on and the catcher being able to peg guys out.

The key to shutting down the Dodgers (IMO) is to go right after the table setters and not giving them free passes, not facing Manny with guys on base and I think Soto will have to show he can throw guys out.

On the offensive side, they need to be patient and make the Dodger’s staff make pitches. The Dodgers staff has not been nearly as good on the road, but their offense has been about the same whether they are home or on the road.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 29, 2008 2:44 PM CDT 0 recs

The Dodgers steal bases

but 40 of their 126 SBs are accounted for by Pierre, who only had 375 ABs this year. It’s not like they are a superb stealing team – only 4th in the NL, and 93/126 SBs come from Pierre, Martin, and Kemp. They can run, but chiefly it is only these two guys…and when Pierre plays.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Sep 29, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up 0 recs

I would be very happy

If we see a lot of Pierre ABs in this series. Yes Please!

Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog

by berselius on Sep 29, 2008 9:43 PM CDT up 0 recs

furcal

would have bumped them up another 30-40 sbs. who knows how healthy his back is at this point though…if he can run on it then they’re a pretty fast team.

by Cubinator on Sep 30, 2008 7:30 AM CDT up 0 recs

Key is to shutdown Russell Martin....

Oh please let this dubious bullpen be good enough in the playoffs...

by MDBNIU on Sep 29, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up 0 recs

Doesn't he have his own fishing show?

"Bring On The Major Leagues" Stephen Malkmus

by graceunderpressure on Sep 29, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up 0 recs

Russell Martin has become your new Rich Harden hasn't he?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 29, 2008 5:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

PITCHING IS UNSPECIFIED RULER/ADMINISTRATOR OF LARGE LAND MASS!

DIAMONDBACKS! HAREN! WAUGH WAUGH WAUGH!

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Sep 29, 2008 7:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

LOL, if I had more time on my hands...

…I’d go back into the BCB archives and find some of MDBNIU’s posts from early in the season slavishly praising the D’Backs – essentially proclaiming them the greatest team in the National League.

The Chicago Cubs: 2008 Central Division Champions

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 30, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up 0 recs

+1

Unless you’ve somehow figured out a way to add cagematches to a baseball game, comparing Soto to Martin or Lee to Loney isn’t extremely telling of an “edge”. Woohoo, Jim Edmonds had two more homers and a slightly higher OPS than Matt Kemp! In a short series, what matters is who gets hot.

"Hey! If the moon were made of ribs, wouldja eat it? I know I would!"

by cubs0505 on Sep 29, 2008 6:03 PM CDT up 0 recs

The Dodgers' SBN website has a rough match-up for game one up:

http://www.truebluela.com/

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Sep 29, 2008 3:18 PM CDT 0 recs

I'm always happy when I see comments like

"The problem with facing the Cubs is that they don’t have the soft underbelly in the bullpen that the other playoff teams have. "

I think we get hyperfocused on our pen at times…

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Sep 29, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up 0 recs

I like

D Lowe is probably one of the greatest pitching free agents deals in history,

which makes me giggle like a school girl.

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Sep 29, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up 0 recs

of course,

I don’t agree with their final eval. Beating Demp at home isn’t going to be as easy as they want it to be.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Sep 29, 2008 3:43 PM CDT up 0 recs

I saw it

earlier today. The link in the post on truebluela is actually rather complimentary to us—unlike other fans at other sites. The link leads to a pretty good breakdown. I was rather disappointed about the whole “…its is the Cubs and anything could happen…” line.

Time is an illusion--lunch time doubly so.

by snowyman28 on Sep 29, 2008 8:36 PM CDT up 0 recs

Fearing Manny?

his career stats vs our starters:
Dempster: 1-1,2b RBI

Zambrano:0-3, 2Ks

Harden: 3-11, 3HRs, 5RBI

Lilly: 11-42,.619 SLG

Never faced Wood and is 0-6 against Marquis (whodve thunk that?)

Pitchers generally have the edge in first time meetings, so as long as he doesnt hit Harden…hah, I think we shouldnt fear him too much.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Sep 29, 2008 3:21 PM CDT 0 recs

Wow, not what I see at all

I look at those numbers and I see reinforcemane for being careful with Manny

Reed Ballgame - best CF in the MLB

by californiachicagoan on Sep 29, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up 0 recs

all three hits against Harden

home runs. Z seems to own him like a little girl, tho.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Sep 29, 2008 3:43 PM CDT up 0 recs

Well youre always careful with him...

My point was he doesnt have a long, or terribly successful, history against our three starters….with the exception of Harden I suppose.

This series does scare me though, Lowe and Billingsley are tough

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Sep 29, 2008 5:55 PM CDT up 0 recs

The Marquis stat is sorta shocking

There's magic in the ivy...

by halfblindcubbiegirl on Sep 29, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up 0 recs

Hahahaha...

"Staff: Proctor, Wade, McDonald, Toronsco, Kershaw

Howry, Samardzija, Marshall, Marquis"

Sorry, Howry automatically gives the advantage to the Dodgers there.

If Eyre was so far in Lou’s doghouse he had to be traded, what is Howry in? The bizarro doghouse? What would you call it?

Ron Santo should sing TMOTTBG everyday. Period.

by Schwa on Sep 29, 2008 3:24 PM CDT 0 recs

Clayton Kershaw dials it up to 100 MPH and Scott Proctor is Torre favorite from New York

Oh please let this dubious bullpen be good enough in the playoffs...

by MDBNIU on Sep 29, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up 0 recs

Proctor is the Dodgers' Howry.

1.68 WHIP and 6.05 ERA this year. We can only hope we get to face him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Sep 29, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up 0 recs

Or, if you will, Joe Torre's Employee

He worked that arm to death. I felt so bad for him when Torre signed with LA – he should have just made a preeemptive appointment w/ Dr. Andrews

Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog

by berselius on Sep 29, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up 0 recs

kershaw

has control issues since being called up into the bigs…lets hope for lots of bb

by Cubinator on Sep 30, 2008 7:33 AM CDT up 0 recs

Wierd

My work is blocking this site anymore. Keep your fingers crossed for me.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on Sep 29, 2008 3:43 PM CDT 0 recs

is = isn't

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on Sep 29, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up 0 recs

A few things

It is VERY unlikely Maddux is the 4th starter. Also I am not sure WHO the Dodger closer is. It was Saito till he got injured and lately Dodgers have switched around . It depends on his health but I am inclined to think it would Broxton, Saito and not the other way round. I really doubt Kent is starting. He CAN’T RUN. Furcal also iffy. I think Nomar will start 2B.
Not sure how the have the Cubs middle relief over the Dodgers ESPECIALLY if Howry is on it.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 29, 2008 4:23 PM CDT 0 recs

Broxton

is the closer

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Sep 29, 2008 6:56 PM CDT up 0 recs

Did the Dodgers announce this?

Last I read ( I think on ESPN) they indicated in Saito would be the closer sort of. He would close except that they could not use him on consecutive days so it sounds a bit like rotating closers. This may well have changed. Is there a link for this ?

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 29, 2008 8:58 PM CDT up 0 recs