Let's take a look around

by Bill Potter on Sep 3, 2008 7:36 AM CDT

I know today is going to be a long, anxious day for us Cubs fans. It's bad enough having to wait until 7 for a game, let alone after four straight loss. Toss in a possible injury to a cog in the rotation, and I can understand the anxiety meter rising.

Heck, with four straight loses, I thought I would try and preemptively strike before anyone decided to jump off of any tall building or resort to calling names.

We're still watching quite possibly the best Cubs team of my life (I know it is) and anyone else's. The Cubs right now are 85-54. How many of you, given the option of having that record and a 4.5 game lead in the NL Central would have gladly taken that at the beginning of the year? I know I would have.

This is only the Cubs second four-game losing skid of the year. Every team in Major League Baseball has had a streak of losing at least four games (Anaheim's longest streak is 4, just like the Cubs). It happens throughout the course of the year.

These Cubs are a resilient bunch. Sure, they're not going to win every game, and Lord knows I don't want to watch them fall apart down the stretch. However, I don't think they're going to. Every challenge this team has seen, they have risen to the occasion (think Milwaukee, circa July 28-31). There is no need to think they won't come through again.

Yes, I think Ramirez could use a day off, he looks tired. Yes, I think Bob Howry's gas can and matches need to be confiscated as soon as possible. Yes, I hate losing four games in row, especially in the manner last night's game was lost.

However, I think Derrek Lee will come through in the clutch - he's hitting the ball much better the past week. And yes, I think Kosuke Fukudome will pay dividends this month.

That's just how I feel - I can understand those who want to bash Lou (or choose a Cub) today, but before you do, please just sit back for a minute and think about where this team is today, and what their potential is for today, tomorrow and the next two months.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Memo To All On The Ledge:

If you see Bob Howry while you’re out there, please push him off. Then come back inside. Thank you.

"It's Happening..."

by Goodie1969 on Sep 3, 2008 7:51 AM CDT reply actions

Done...

though to be honest, I wasn’t on the ledge, I just went to the ledge i thought Howry would be on and gently coaxed him to jump. No pushing involved.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 3, 2008 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions

wow ... that was cold

but funny … Honestly, Bobby just needs to do something else. Maybe we can persuade the Brewers to take him on. That would bring Eric Gagne something to look forward to .. and the Cubs.

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Sep 3, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions

It doesn't help that Lou

keeps sending Howry out there in high pressure situations, setting him up to fail.

Chicago Cubs Jokes, Humor and Parody at The Cubs Brickyard

by Brett Taylor on Sep 3, 2008 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions

You know

Took my daughter to school this morning, put my Cub hat on and said " Hell with the negative thought". Been a fan for 38 years, and I will be damned to let a 4 game losing streak ruin this year.
Yeah I know “Z” could be down for 2 weeks or the rest of the year, however Teams rally, teams pull together, This team has it, and will push through this lull.
Cubs are in first, How do you think the Brewers feel, letting two games get away from them.

GO CUBS!!!!!

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Sep 3, 2008 7:57 AM CDT reply actions

Nice

That’s about all you can do at this point. It makes it a lot easier on us fans if we don’t worry about every little thing and fuss about managerial decisions. We can still get mad at DLee for too many DP’s and we can still boo Bobby off the mound. But like you said, throw your Cubs hat back on the next day and smile.

by montanacubby on Sep 3, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions

Thanks, Trey

I like your perspective and couldn’t agree more. This is a great team, but they aren’t superhuman. Four losses is what it is, a bump in the road. They’ll be fired up tonight, and if we were going to go through a slump rather it be now. Meanwhile, Lou, please get rid of Howry.

by Emelie on Sep 3, 2008 8:07 AM CDT reply actions

Rec'd

And I absolutely agree. This is a great team. Don’t let anything make you forget that. A four game losing streak is a call for fans of this great team to step up in their positive support of the team.

Bashing isn’t productive. But not all criticism is bashing. And if some criticisms, previously attacked as disloyal, are now being shown to be right and made in the best interests of the team, you can’t blame some people for wanting to point out their justification.

As far as criticisms I have made in the past, those are and ever have been minor criticisms, made in the context of believing this to be a great team and Lou a good manager. A four game losing streak doesn’t change that. What it does change is the need to intensify our positive response as fans supporting this great team. I applaud this fanpost and its spirit. It is worthy of the great team it supports.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Sep 3, 2008 8:14 AM CDT reply actions 5 recs

This comment is rec'd, too

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 3, 2008 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions

well said.

Criticism can be done well, especially when made in the context you stated.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Sep 3, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions

DLee is a concern for me.

He and Howry single handedly lost last nights game for the Cubs. He gets a reprieve in my book though cause he couldn’t have whiffed and left 5 on base without Howry’s performance.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 3, 2008 8:15 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

Lee's K

That strikeout was a tough one. Wright made his pitches. The called strike was borderline, and when it’s called, Lee’s in trouble. because as he showed when he swung at the exact same pitch later in the sequence, he couldn’t hit it out there.

Still, Lee was on base 50% of the time last night. He’s less a concern for me than other things.

As for Howry, he’s done great things for this team in the past. All told, he’s not going to bring this season down by himself, so his tenure with the Cubs should be remembered positively.

by DGU on Sep 3, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions

What about Lee's GIDP with bags loaded earlier?

he does this a lot and that is my concern. A simple sac fly is not too much to ask for from your #3 power hitter.

As for Howry, he WAS great a couple of years ago. It wil be tough to remember him fondly if he keeps losing games for this team. I have to differ on the fact that he cannot take this team doen. He cannot if Lou smartens up and pitches him in blowouts but he keeps dropping these type of games and the Brewers will certainly catch this team.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Sep 3, 2008 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions

Lee and Bob

Lee is hitting into double plays. That still stinks. But Lee is hitting better. That’s good.

Bob Howry is a guy who gave so much always taking the ball for several managers who were willing to wear his arm out. I expect he’s more frustrated at what his arm can no longer do than any of us.

by DGU on Sep 3, 2008 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions

I think that's a bit easy on Lee.

His performance last night was abysmal, and he’d be the first person to say so.

In fact, he’s been terrible all year. For the first time in his career, he’s really shrinking from big spots. He’s trying to pull everything, which results in tailor-made double play balls coming off the bat at a truly historic rate.

We need to go with Lee for the rest of the season, and he needs our support. But at the same time, Hendry needs to keep his eyes open this offseason. It could be the beginning of Lee’s decline. It certainly looks that way.

by D98 on Sep 3, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions

I think the 1B market in the offseason

will make trading Lee a tempting possibility. How much does the team lose if Aramis shifts to 1B, DeRo to 3B and Fontenot platoons at 2B? Quite a bit if Lee revives and Fonty wilts under regular play – but what we get back in trade for Lee might make that risk worth taking.

by DGU on Sep 3, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions

Who is available besides Texeira?

Unless Hendry can really steal someone, I wouldn’t think Lee is going anywhere. I think the Cubs would lose a lot, especially defensively and in the locker room, with the loss of Lee.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Sep 3, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions

Locker room presence

Is important, but not at the expense of production. I’m not saying Lee’s done (I hope not, but I’m concerned), but I wouldn’t keep a .280/.320/.400 class act over a .320/.380/.480 neutral presence, for example.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 3, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions

I agree

But I think some of Lee’s stats this year are an aberration (the DPs). While I don’t think he’ll ever approach the levels he was at in 2005, I still think he has some good years left.

That said, I’d take the .320/.380/.480 guy over the .280/.320/.400 guy.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Sep 3, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions

I hope it's an aberration

Because he’s already hit a career high for grounders, and the GB/FB ratio is alarming.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 3, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions

I'd buy into 2009 being a bounce-back year for Lee

and I’d be really curious to read the full health record on 2008 Lee. But he is at the age where decline happens and with two affordable years on his contract, the trade could bring back something very good for the team we build around Geovany Soto.

by DGU on Sep 3, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions

As would I

I think some of the groundballs, along with the lack of driving the ball right (though the one he hit against Valverde the other day was promising) is somehow health-related.

I could really see 2009 being a big year for Derrek. But unless you can find another younger version of Derrek Lee in the offseason, I have a feeling he’ll be back.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Sep 3, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions

Aramis would become the new 1B.

Someone’s going to lose out on Teix because not all of LA, NY, and Baltimore can get him. Derrek Lee becomes a great consolation prize, precisely because of what you mention.

by DGU on Sep 3, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions

good point

I would just be worried that he could become a defensive liability over there. Sometimes I think we take Lee’s defense for granted.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Sep 3, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions

Definitely

Without Lee, playing both Theriot and Aramis on the left side would be ugly, ugly, ugly.

by DGU on Sep 3, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions

Yeah, think of how many high throws...

…DLee saves because of his height and long reach. Hell, think of how many low throws DLee saves. I just can’t envision Aramis coming close.

"I see the playoff schedule posted in the paper, and that stuff makes me nervous because you can't take anything for granted. We have a great team. We have a really good team. We're playing well, but we haven't won yet." - Jim Edmonds, 8/31/08

by daver on Sep 3, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions

Neither can I

it makes me shudder a bit.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Sep 3, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions

I do like the idea of trading DLee, however.

If he doesn’t bounce back, he’s still solid- but replacement-level or especially a solid platoon at 1B is easy to find cheap. So we could take a slight hitting downgrade and huge fielding downgrade at 1B, but do it for a good bit cheaper (Although Lee’s contract is reasonable overall). If a good piece could be picked up on the trade market, which you never know, I’m all for trading Derrek at some point next year.

by Canseco's Roid Party on Sep 3, 2008 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions

should be remembered positively, yes

but should he pitch again in any meaningful situation? no, in fact id just make up an injury for the guy. guzman can take whatever role howry had/has. mmm guzman.

bring up felix.

by kylejo on Sep 3, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions

Notice how Lee is rarely involved in scoring?

I do….and that’s what bothers me.

The best defense is a good offense

by kcjones on Sep 3, 2008 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm giving you a rec

for your signature. Awesome!

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Sep 3, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions

I keep repeating these two thoughts in my head

1) The Cubs have a 4.5 game lead
2) The past incarnations of the Cubs have nothing to do with the current team.

---AC 00 00 00 - Believe

by mjk83 on Sep 3, 2008 8:15 AM CDT reply actions

4.5 up on Milwaukee

and another 4.5 up on the wild card. 99.8% likely to make the playoffs.

Best to get the 4 game losing streak out now, instead of in October.

by DGU on Sep 3, 2008 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions

Remember 2006

Just two years ago, the Cubs looked so bad, one would have thought it would be 2016 before the Cubs even contended again. Those 2006-type seasons are the hardest with which to deal. Not going back too far, 1999, 2000, and 2002 were pretty terrible, too.

Last night was pretty frustrating. I wanted to “Elvis” the TV by shooting it, but that HDTV costs too money to replace. I have been enjoying this season for the most part. I still think the Cubs will win the division. How they will do in the playoffs is anybody’s guess.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Sep 3, 2008 8:19 AM CDT reply actions

Gee.....we can say the 00's are good for the Cubs.....

When was the last decade where…

The 1 year…the Cubs hung in and competed…prob. won nearly 90 games….
The 3 year….5 outs from WS birth
The 4 year nearly 90 game winners
The 07 Editiion ….. Fun bunch (kinda like 98)
08…..85 Wins and counting…lets just hope for 11 more after Sept. 30

WOW…when was the last decade the Cubs had more winning seasons than losing ones (or at least as many)?

The best defense is a good offense

by kcjones on Sep 3, 2008 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions

The 1930's.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 4, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions

Very well said

n/t

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 3, 2008 8:29 AM CDT reply actions

+1

See my recap for more.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 3, 2008 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions

I'm nowhere near the ledge either.

I’m frustrated with four straight losses. I’m concerned about Big Z (and Chad Gaudin, who’s been unavailable with lower back problems for a couple of days now). And I’m a little baffled by many of Lou’s in-game moves last night. But there are too many good things about this team for me to lose faith now.

by daver on Sep 3, 2008 10:26 AM CDT reply actions

Yeah, Lou was terrible last night.

But we are definitely in good shape and there’s a LOT of teams that would love to be where we are right now. Probably only a couple that wouldn’t trade rosters with us if they could.

by Canseco's Roid Party on Sep 3, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions

I agree

With most of what you said. But I really have to get out some anger about Bob Howry. I was at the game last night sitting in section 422. I was next to this guy who was a pretty hard core score keeper (and probably a season ticket holder)… We both kind of groaned when Lou put Howry in, and especially after the Hunter Pence triple. I knew something bad was a-brewing and wasn’t at all surprised at the single that scored him. After the next few batters where Howry managed to load the bases with still nary an out in sight, I kept looking down into the dugout to see if Lou had taken a bathroom break or something because I couldn’t believe that Howry, after already giving up a run, was still sitting out there… with nobody warming up… until two more runs scored. Sigh. I miss Scott Eyre.

My biggest concern now is that Howry will be on the playoff roster. I don’t think he should be, but with the way Lou seems to have a man crush on him, will he really be left off? My unofficial playoff roster looks something like this:

Position players: Soto, Lee, DeRo, Riot, A-ram, Sori, Edmonds, Dome
Bench guys: Wonder hamster, Hank White, Reed, Ward, Cedeno

That already gives you 13 guys, which means 12 pitchers…

Starters: Dempster, Harden, Big Z, Lilly

So… 8 relievers…

Relievers: Marquis, Marmol, Woody, Spellcheck, Gaudin, Lieber, Cotts, then… Howry? Wuertz? Pagan? Of the three options left, Howry is the more “experienced” guy which makes me feel like he’ll beat out Wuertz and Pagan and will somehow wiggle onto the playoff roster, to the detriment of the team… Sigh…

by Hilary Lee on Sep 3, 2008 1:35 PM CDT reply actions