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Braves Sign Lowe

The deal is 4 yrs, right around $60 million.  I am very disappointed to see the Cubs did not consider signing Lowe.  With all of the Peavy talks taking place throughout the offseason, we have some reason to believe there is more cap room before the Cubs hit there limit.  Peavy and Lowe will be paid nearly the same amount over the next 4 seasons.  Lowe is older and not as dominant, but incredibly consistent.  With a rotation containing Zambrano, Harden and a fly ball prone Ted Lilly, the Cubs need a consistent, middle of the rotation starter. 

Peavy is likely to continue having elbow trouble that started last season, and could very well not pitch more than 500 innings over the next 4 seasons.  Lowe will without a doubt give you right around 800 innings over that same time frame.  He would have been a much better fit than Jake Peavy.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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first off

don’t be so sure the Cubs didn’t consider signing Lowe. I bet Hendry had some talks.

Second, a Cubs competitor won’t be in it for Peavy any longer. I’m not of the belief Peavy could only do 125 IP for the next 4 seasons. That is way low.

And the age difference is HUGE; 8 years. Lowe is 36 this season, Peavy 28.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 13, 2009 10:27 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I dont disagree with your assesment

but man Lowe isnt worth 15 million at his age.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 13, 2009 10:27 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Absolutely Right...

… the $ and the term are way too high!

My 2008 Christmas wish list includes this jersey. In Hendry We Trust!

by initram on Jan 13, 2009 11:07 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is great news....

Braves continue to dig a deeper hole where they have old pitchers with big salaries. They were at $102M last year but appear to be at $80M or so right now, they appear to have lost money last year without the inclusion of their broadcast revenues which I think represented about $35M

Good also it takes the Peavy sweepstakes back to one bidder.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Jan 13, 2009 12:34 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not sure about that

He is older yes, but given that he is a groundball pitcher and would have a solid defense behind him, and has an incredibly consistent track record, he very well could be worth that number

churchofbaseball.com

by MJMars on Jan 13, 2009 11:25 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Cubs don't have room for Peavy now.

Or Lowe.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 13, 2009 10:29 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you dont know that

why do you keep saying that??

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 13, 2009 10:30 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think that is a real question

They have room this year, barely…but room nonetheless, it is the new owner’s sign off of moving the payroll to $150M next year that is the question.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Jan 13, 2009 12:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

since you seem to know so much more than we do

how about telling us all what the final payroll number is going to be??

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 13, 2009 10:32 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't have a specific number.

But I do know they don’t have room for Peavy at this time.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 14, 2009 4:40 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Uhm...

… yes they do.

My 2008 Christmas wish list includes this jersey. In Hendry We Trust!

by initram on Jan 13, 2009 11:07 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well lets just admit

That Al probably knows more than the rest of us combined. So I’m not gonna argue with him on this one. Though I can understand others frustration with the comments, only because everyone wants to hope/believe that we can get Peavy. My question to you Al, is, IF the cubs could get Peavy (I realize that there is probably only a 1% chance of that), would you want them to?

by KButler on Jan 13, 2009 11:29 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sure, if the numbers worked and it didn't cost seven players.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 13, 2009 11:30 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know Im getting off topic a bit here

But if you could only add one player to this roster, who would that be? Or basically what do you think this team is missing, if anything?

by KButler on Jan 13, 2009 11:36 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Brian Roberts

In second place: Jake Peavy

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 13, 2009 11:43 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

I agree

Guess who pitched more innings than Peavy last year and has the same number of 200+ IP seasons in his career? Ben Sheets. I’m not saying I’d take Sheets over Peavy, because I wouldn’t (Sheets has pitched less games over the past 3 years). I’m saying that Peavy may not be a horse going forward and the Dads want us to pay them like he is. There seem to be plausible alternatives to Peavy (like Sheets). The alternatives are less good for Roberts, which makes me think he’s the better target.

by Cubinator on Jan 13, 2009 12:15 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He probably is

But I doubt that will happen as well. By the way though, I seriously woulnd’t mind Sheets. I know he is hurt all the time, but we seem to be in the market for players like that these days. But when he is healthy, he probably is better than Peavy, given that he hasn’t played half his games in Petco. I know the cubs won’t sign him, but I wouldn’t be opposed to it. (And either way, I’d rather him not return to the Brewers)

by KButler on Jan 13, 2009 12:51 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

agreed on all counts

I’m not holding my breath for Roberts (or Peavy for that matter). I’d be very happy if the Cubs added Sheets.

by Cubinator on Jan 13, 2009 2:09 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Goodness..

Still not enough second basemen

The journey is the reward!

by wicubfan on Jan 13, 2009 12:52 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The argument this time last year

was primarily about DeRo, like DeRo was irreplaceable. Hey, look what happened? DeRo was traded! Like Marisa Tomei said at the end of My Cousin Vinny, “…what a fuckin’ nightmare!”

My point being B-Rob is not only a 2B’er but switch hitter, high OBP, big BASE STEALING threat and…..he LEADS OFF! The team’s offencive dynamic totally changes with him leading off (e.g. no more Fonzie there; yeah!) and him likely swiping 45-55 bases. That is what makes B-Rob attractive, not just being a 2B man.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 14, 2009 8:36 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Albert Pujols

oh wait… were we sticking to (sort of ) realistic options ;)

"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens

by bobby h on Jan 13, 2009 12:42 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hahahahaha

lets hope the new owners start putting money away now to try and pry him away from the Cards with some Tex like money in a few years.

by KButler on Jan 13, 2009 1:00 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Fukudome we expected when we signed him

that would hit .290/.400/.430 with GG defense in RF

churchofbaseball.com

by MJMars on Jan 13, 2009 2:32 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'dd add

B.J. Upton.

Of course that’s never going to happen, but he’d fill the leadoff and centerfield spots nicely.

"Hey! If the moon were made of ribs, wouldja eat it? I know I would!"

by cubs0505 on Jan 13, 2009 2:37 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

numbers do work (financial ones)

it’s these numbers (players in return) that do not work.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 13, 2009 11:45 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Depends on the 7 players

Let’s see they can Pie, Cedeno, Hoff, Wuertz, Cotts, Fuld ( sob) and ALL 3 Cleveland pitchers. That makes
9 players.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Jan 13, 2009 1:09 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If those seven players weren't key players....

why is that so bad? If the Cubs could afford him in the coming years, his arm is DEFINITELY worth seven players.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Jan 13, 2009 8:09 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why does Al know more than the rest of us combined?

He’s a blogger. Just because he runs a blog does not make him right or give him any more insight to the situation than anyone else.

"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08

by Bildo1805 on Jan 13, 2009 12:47 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well I'm not sure how often you come here

But not too long ago he interviewed Crane Kenney. During the season he interviewed Mike Fontenot. He created this site, as far as I know the largest Cubs fan site that exists. Just too name a few things.

by KButler on Jan 13, 2009 1:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok, and...

he posted those interviews here for all to read. So, we’re all even then on the super special insight Crane Kenney and Mike Fontenot gave Al that they weren’t giving members of the media.

Al runs a blog read by many people. It doesn’t make his opinions any more valid than anyone else’s. Opinions are judged by logic, not popularity or how many people read them.

"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08

by Bildo1805 on Jan 13, 2009 1:10 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Which has produced little...

There’s no need to criticize Al, as he has certainly proved he has great baseball knowledge, but he does just possess one opinion. I’m sure he’ll admit that’s he’s been wrong many times before, as we all have.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Jan 13, 2009 2:24 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Um, no

Al’s signature on his posts make it clear that he has more than one opinion.

by TheHawk5 on Jan 13, 2009 4:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's not really seeing the whole picture

As a former newspaper reporter, I knew things that I couldn’t print (off-the-record comments, wordless reactions from sources) that made me a better source of information that someone who just read all the coverage of an issue. Al undoubtedly got some vibe from Kenney and has Cubs sources (Deep Goat, for one). I wouldn’t say he’s as clued in as Bruce Levine, but he’s a helluva lot more clued in than you or me.

You might be confusing “opinions” with well-informed speculation. When it comes to being well-informed (from primary sources), Al beats probably everybody here.

All that said, Al has been wrong before (he was pretty sure Wood would return). But I’d still take Al’s predictions (as a whole) more seriously than I would take any other poster.

by elgato on Jan 13, 2009 1:21 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So you're saying Al knows more about the Cubs payroll this year than any of us combined?

Keep drinkin’ the koolaid.

"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08

by Bildo1805 on Jan 13, 2009 1:24 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

who said anything ...

about “any of us combined”? And, not to edit you, but what you wrote doesn’t make a lot of sense (I think you mean “all of us combined.”) And, yes, I have a typo in my previous post.

I also don’t see how giving Al some credit is the same thing as drinking koolaid.

by elgato on Jan 13, 2009 1:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The original poster did.

“That Al probably knows more than the rest of us combined”-KButler.

But thanks for the style lesson.

"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08

by Bildo1805 on Jan 13, 2009 1:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well, I didn't say that

Al’s knowledge was equal to the rest of ours put together, and you responded to my post.

by elgato on Jan 13, 2009 1:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok...

as a poster in the same thread, I thought you’d follow along.

I’m done arguing with you about this.

"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08

by Bildo1805 on Jan 13, 2009 1:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

last! ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 13, 2009 1:34 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, I'm last.

I have never claimed to “know more than everyone here combined”.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 14, 2009 4:43 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Never said you did.

But, a poster did.

"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08

by Bildo1805 on Jan 14, 2009 7:48 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I saw that.

If I had seen that yesterday, I would have said that it wasn’t true then.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 14, 2009 8:14 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How about Bruce Miles?

He posts here.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Jan 13, 2009 1:24 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I said "probably" everybody here

Bruce Miles is definitely more plugged in than Al.

by elgato on Jan 13, 2009 1:29 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhaaaa!

no.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Jan 13, 2009 3:46 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Although...

….i think there’s a jazz joke in there somewhere.

…blou ….blue ….miles …….hmm

"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens

by bobby h on Jan 13, 2009 10:13 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Haven't you heard?

“Kinda Blou” by Brouce Miles was re-released on Blou Note records recently.

"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano

by JohnM on Jan 14, 2009 6:52 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my point exactly

Im not saying that Al is calling up Jim Hendry or even Buster Olney or something daily to get all the inside news. But if you remember, on the conversation that followed the Kenney interview, he said that there was certainly things he talked about that was not put into the interview on here and when he was asked about it, Al chose his words carefully and said there wasn’t much he was going to divulge.

Not that being quoted makes you accurate or reputable, but seeing Al quoted on cubs stories in local newspapers also helps. I never see a Bildo1805 quote during my morning newspaper skim.

by KButler on Jan 13, 2009 1:25 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bluemike...

Or whatever he’s called this week was quoted in Sports Illustrated IIRC.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Jan 13, 2009 1:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh yeah...

…I guess that makes it all the more a shame that bluemike MDBNIU got himself banned. He lost all the goodwill (in the intellectual property sense) associated with that user name.

RIP Ron Asheton (1948-2009)

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 13, 2009 2:13 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So Al's the faceguy for Cubs fans.

That and $2 will get you a cup of coffee. I don’t understand the blind love.

"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08

by Bildo1805 on Jan 13, 2009 1:29 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

dood

it’s not blind love. Al’s a smart guy, he’s been right before, and several of us agree with him more often than not.

It’s safe to say he knows more than the average fan.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Jan 13, 2009 1:38 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dood.

Read the freaking post.

I disagreed with KButler saying Al knew more than all of us combined.

"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08

by Bildo1805 on Jan 13, 2009 1:40 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hyperbole

is hyperbolic.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Jan 13, 2009 2:37 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so does this make you two the doodie brothers? ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 13, 2009 1:43 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Consider this.

Do you think perhaps I was told some things in those interviews that I didn’t post?

Or that I have been told other things that I either didn’t or couldn’t post?

Food for thought.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 14, 2009 4:41 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is that where you got the inside scoop about

trading for Matt Cain and flipping him and Pie for Nolasco?

Come on. Why would they tell you anything different from any other report that has already published the material elsewhere?

by BarryZuckerCub on Jan 14, 2009 7:40 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There was no such "inside scoop"...

… that’s something I was speculating about, and I never claimed that was from a source.

Sources tell individuals things that others may not know. I’d think that would be pretty obvious.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 14, 2009 8:15 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, I hadn't considered that.

I think you’re dead wrong about Milton Bradley, and distaste for him has led to some pretty limited discussion on him.

The unabashed campaign for anyone not named Milton Bradley was pretty silly. Truth be told, he was the best option for right field. Instead, any talk about right field in Wrigley was immediately shuttled to a dream trade for Hermidia and some pipe dream about Matt Cain and Ricky Nolasco.

After the whole RF thing, it confirmed what I already know. You get the same information any Cubs reporter gets, maybe less. Listen, you run a nice community here. But I refuse to believe you’re getting special information from Cubs brass. It doesn’t exactly behoove Kenney (or Fontenot…) to tell you stuff they aren’t telling other Cubs media.

"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08

by Bildo1805 on Jan 14, 2009 7:43 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You can believe anything you want.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 14, 2009 8:15 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Come on Al...

just a hint please……

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 14, 2009 8:38 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL

No way!

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 14, 2009 11:35 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You

should know that only Al is privileged enough to know all the inside info that Mike Fontenot feeds him. If you keep questioning the superior knowledge you WILL be banned soon.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue" - George F. Will

by tizzle on Jan 14, 2009 11:34 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LMAO

FWIW, nothing Fontenot told me was “off the record”.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 14, 2009 11:35 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You don't

think they would make room for him? They certainly would.

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Jan 13, 2009 4:50 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cubs are out of money to spend

Jake Peavy or Derrek Lowe or anybody else with a big pricetag isn’t going to happen. Hendry is done spending money other than throwing out small change to acquire a backup catcher and a pinch hitter / 1st base type option.

Personally, I think Lowe was a great move by Atlanta. Who cares how old Lowe is. He’s never been a flamethrower and is more in the mold of a Greg Maddux or Tom Glavine. Plus he has always stayed healthy and takes the ball every 5th day.

by BLou on Jan 13, 2009 11:09 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Again...

… you know this how?

In my estimation (and Ivy Walls and I are close), we are at $134M. Last published reports I heard was that the ceiling was between $140 – $145M. That a range of $6 – $11M difference! And that already includes arb figures for Wuertz, Gregg and Cedeno! And, we can trim another $5-$6M if we need to.

We can still fit more as well as maintaining the flexibility by keeping a reserve for in-season moves…

My 2008 Christmas wish list includes this jersey. In Hendry We Trust!

by initram on Jan 13, 2009 11:13 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Me too, how does BLou know?

I ran Ivy’s numbers too. And with the players going back to SD, even with Peavy’s $11.5M salary and $1M insurance, I have the Cubs at just over $141M.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 13, 2009 11:23 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

See My New Sig...

My 2008 Christmas wish list includes this jersey. In Hendry We Trust! Current 2009 payroll.

by initram on Jan 13, 2009 11:29 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

stick to blogging bluemike

you don’t work for the cubs front office and you dont know what they have left to spend. If I were a betting man niether does hendry.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 13, 2009 11:13 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would bet Hendry does know what he has to spend

…and he knows the parameters that can change what he can spend and when.

Just like with the Bradley deal, we knew the Cubs were interested but no one knew until just the other day that Hendry snuck out of the GM meetings (not Winter meetings) to meet with Bradley and told him if he could hold the phone for a couple months, we’ll be able to swing a deal.

With Peavy, there’s knowledge on each side what’s going on with the other side. They’ve talked, plenty of times. Timing counts, and counts a lot. I’m not saying this will happen, but I don’t think anyone here can say 100% for sure it won’t happen.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 13, 2009 11:22 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

regardless..

of what the payroll ceiling is, what is making me mad is these red sox deals. they are getting awesome 1yr deals. we need to get in on some of these. I’d like to take a chance on a Cordero type if possible.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 13, 2009 11:18 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There's Still Time...

… and the longer we wait with our targets unsigned, the better it is for us.

At the beginning of last week, 151 FA still had not signed. While there was a lot of activity since then, that’s a lot!

My 2008 Christmas wish list includes this jersey. In Hendry We Trust! Current 2009 payroll.

by initram on Jan 13, 2009 11:30 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wouldn't call signing injured players

to 1 year deals “awesome.” I would call them a gamble. The Red Sox are gambling that at least 1 of Smoltz or Penny will be productive amd Baldelli will be able to provide some protection for an injury prone JD Drew.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jan 13, 2009 11:30 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I do

yes they are a gamble but in today’s market and the player’s ability level, they are almost a steal. Not to mention they are only 1 yr deals. Dont forget saito either. they did a pretty darn good job IMO.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 13, 2009 12:09 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would like to point out

that signing injured players could also get you 0 in return.

Yes, the reward can be high, but that’s because the risk is also high.

I’m not saying that it’s a bad move, just that it is a gamble.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jan 13, 2009 12:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Those were solid,

calculated risks, with tons of upside, and limited downside.

I would have preferred that they had reached a bit, and brought Lowe back there, but it’s hard to complain about those moves as a Plan B.

by Damen Jackson on Jan 13, 2009 12:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually, the deals do have a high chance of a team

getting 0 in return. That’s why they also have a chance of a high reward if the player can be productive.

It will be interesting to see if the Red Sox gambles during the off-season will pay off.

I find it a little strange for them to make so many signings of injured players, particularly since there are so many bargains available among healthy free agents.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jan 13, 2009 12:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No to Mets

I’m just glad that the Mets didn’t get Lowe.

by Ghost of Fred Merkle on Jan 13, 2009 11:39 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Disappointed?

How much long-term money do you want wrapped up in the rotation. The Cubs didn’t need Lowe at that price.

by rlpete on Jan 13, 2009 11:59 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This makes Dempster a steal

I know Lowe pitched better in the post season, but still.

Any chance the Red Sox gamble on Pedro Martinez while they are at it?

Also glad Lowe didn’t go to the Mets. We need the Braves to make the post seaon as they are the only team we can beat there.

by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 13, 2009 12:02 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lowe is a better pitcher than Dempster.

And has been throughout his career. It doesn’t make Dempster a steal.

by aramis on Jan 13, 2009 12:09 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lowe's and Dempster's stats

Are pretty close from 2008.

Plus Lowe’s home/away splits are pretty drastic. Home: 2.30 ERA, Away: 4.42

Consider Lowe will be 36 this year and Dempster will be 32, who would you rather have signed for four year for less money?

by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 13, 2009 12:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One year...

means very little. It was a good signing, but let’s not get carried away. Dempster has one successful year of starting and a history of injuries. Lowe is a better pitcher.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Jan 13, 2009 2:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lowe

HAS been a better pitcher than Dempster. Except for last year, when they were practically the same. Plus Dempster was a closer for a few years. I guess I do not expect much of a fall off from Dempster like so many do. The year before many figured Lilly would be worse and he wasn’t. I do expect Lowe to decline somewhat as he is no longer pitching in Dodger Stadium.

by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 13, 2009 6:42 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed

Derrek Lowe is a distinctly better pitcher than Ryan Dempster. A career year by Dempster in 2008 does not equate to the consistent reliabilty and performance Lowe has chalked in for a long time. Lowe is reminiscent of Greg Maddux in many regards. Lowe has better velocity but the comparison is apt. Braves made a good deal here.

by BLou on Jan 13, 2009 12:39 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

over the course of the contracts

Dempster will probably be more valuable than Lowe.

by elgato on Jan 13, 2009 1:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Lowe will be substantially better...

in years 1 and 2. Dempster has one solid year on his resume, and it’s unlikely he’ll duplicate it, although I still see him as an effective starter. And I’d agree Demp should be better in years 3 and 4.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Jan 13, 2009 2:29 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Too expensive

Lowe was too expensive and not worth the gamble for the Cubs. Sure, he would have fit in great this year, but what about in 4 years at the age of 42? Doesn’t make sense.

IMHO, a pitcher like Randy Wolf makes a lot more sense both from a rotation and payroll stand point.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Jan 13, 2009 12:18 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

First off

Lowe is 36 this season, so year 4, he’s 40, not 42. He’s not a power pitcher so the risk is lower than a power guy. Peavy is 8 years younger than Lowe.

Wolf is a possibility but I haven’t looked into his position. Sheets makes more sense for that 4.5 man rotation that was on the headline post this morning just because of his injury potential. He’d be a lot cheaper than Peavy though; money and return players. And because of that (no return players needed and lower overall cost) I’d be interested in him if it got the Cubs Roberts.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 13, 2009 12:53 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sheets, slightly IMHO

Just because of the history and he’s more of a power guy. But the upside is just so much more for Sheets. Topping it off, he’s 2 years younger this season, 31 to 33.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 13, 2009 1:20 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My bad on Lowe's age.

My point was that the Cubs were wise in not signing Lowe for anywhere near the money and years that he got with the Braves. IMHO, there are better options out there, given the money and contract length, for this season and next. A one or two year deal, again IMHO, to a Sheets or Wolf puts the Cubs in a better position in the long run.

Also, wanted to clarify, I am against signing anyone else if it ends the Cubs chances of trading for Peavy. Peavy’s age and talent are worth any gamble that his contract puts a team into, IMHO.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Jan 13, 2009 1:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sheets for a year and an option would be cool

That whole 4.5 man rotation can be entertained, he’s a filthy power-ish guy when healthy. He’d be extra extra motivated when playing the team who’s home is Wrigley North. And it won’t bust the farm so Hendry could pursue another trade. Which BTW, IMHO is more-enabled when he acquired 3 young pitchers from the Tribe last month.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 13, 2009 2:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think signing Sheets as a starter is a bad idea.

He has had arm issues in recent years and that makes me think he could turn into Jason Schmidt. (Schmidt had arm issues the Dodgers were aware of but they went ahead and signed him).

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jan 13, 2009 2:58 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Of course it could...

just like acquiring Harden last year. They committed over $90M to Z and he could blow a head gasket at any time, screwing up his arm/shoulder in the process. There’s risks everywhere.

What intrigues me with Sheets is they could use the prospects otherwise spent in a Peavy deal, for Roberts; a more pressing need than a starter anyway. Sheets would be a year and an option and it would not cost the Cubs a lot in 2010+.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 13, 2009 3:15 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ben Sheets may be headed back to Milwaukee after all

I think Sheets gets an incentive laden two year deal that could earn him $15 million plus per season if he stays healthy and can be effective. And I will not be surprised if somehow he winds back up in Milwaukee at this stage.

by BLou on Jan 13, 2009 3:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I haven't heard anything about that recently

There anything posted on that front?

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 13, 2009 3:15 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nope...just my idle speculation

Unless Milwaukee is intent on losing 90 games in 2009 then they are going to have to find some starting pitching. Ben Sheets coming back to the Brewers isn’t far-fetched at this stage.

by BLou on Jan 13, 2009 4:09 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The big difference between Peavy and Lowe?

The cy young count. How many does Lowe have?

Peavy is worth way more. He’s an ace. Lowe never really has been. He’s been on championship teams, yes, but never the ace. Even on the Dodgers. And yes, he had a good year last year and has had a solid career, he would be a 3 starter at best. Would you really put him ahead of Zambrano or Harden or Dempster? For 15 million, he’s not worth it, especially if hes going to be your number four or five. And then we just have an older version of Marquis

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 13, 2009 12:46 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

May I ask you a couple of questions?

Do you really think that there is any GM in baseball that factors the personal awards of a player into the equation so much that he’d pay a premium on an offer sheet because of it?

And considering that Peavy’s contract is about the same, is a Jake Peavy removed from Petco really worth the money, plus three or four of a good organization’s top 10 players?

by Damen Jackson on Jan 13, 2009 12:58 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think what makes Peavy attractive

is his ability to strike out batters. Lowe is a ground ball pitcher and requires a good defense to be on the field for him to be effective. There’s also more “luck” involved with balls put into play. A strikeout pitcher can record outs all by himself.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jan 13, 2009 1:05 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you'd be interested in paying...

a premium for a power arm, that’s fine. I get that. However, the poster suggested that a premium existed because Peavy has a Cy Young, and is an “ace”. I’m curious to know how much he thinks that those things are worth, and whether baseball executives care/should care about that in preparing an offer.

And Atlanta has a very good defense, and should for the forseeable future, which further decreases the need for that Peavy type of pitcher — or at least to the extent where they needn’t drain their farm system for it.

by Damen Jackson on Jan 13, 2009 1:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Peavy having a Cy Young might depend on the team.

This is something that could be used to market the team so it might be worth something. It wouldn’t be worth much (for marketing purposes) to a team like the Cubs who are near season capacity for their attendance.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jan 13, 2009 3:00 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

GM's probably don't look at awards

But they do show that the pitcher really is dominating, and not just by the numbers. It shows that the people around the game believe so also. I’m not saying here that Peavy is worth everything that the Cubs have to offer, simply that he is a better option than Lowe

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 13, 2009 4:52 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm a huge Peavy Fan

but any peavy-lowe comparison has to include lowe’s postseason experience and success

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 13, 2009 5:36 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed.

I also worry about Peavy outside of Petco.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 14, 2009 4:44 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

WAIT!!!

This deal is not done yet! It’s just an offer. Lowe could sign elsewhere.

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 13, 2009 12:49 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When I posted...

It wasn’t yet. Ok, good to know

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 13, 2009 4:53 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

still may not be a done deal. who's his agent? ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 13, 2009 11:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lowe vs. Dempster

Love Dempster, but Lowe is the better pitcher with a better track record…we can only hope Dempster will get anywhere close to 2008 numbers…I would love to eat crow if he does but that is the reality.

100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.

by airweino on Jan 13, 2009 2:04 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Braves got desperate

They essentially bid against themselves (the Mets had made it fairly clear they wouldn’t go much higher as they were fine with Oliver Perez). Then, they offer 8 mil+ a year to Kenshin Kawakami, who most predict will be an end of the rotation guy?

In saying all this, strategic overpayment was needed, so I’m not actually bashing these moves. The Braves needed to overpay and to restore some credibility, albeit, we have to wait and see how they perform.

This offseason was as much about 2010 as it was about 2009 for the Braves. With these two moves, they look alright heading into 2010. A rotation of Hudson (won’t be back until late in 2009 in all likelihood), Lowe, Jurrjens is intriguing, with Hanson/Kawakami my guesses as to how they fill out the back end (with Vazquez getting dealt for more pieces to the puzzle).

As of now, it’ll be an uphill climb in 2009, as I think the Marlins, Mets, and Phillies are all better than the Braves unless they can add some more pieces. Come 2010, they could be intriguing.

Now, as for the Cubs, considering our financial situation, I have no qualms about passing up Lowe. Solid starter, good gamer … but 4 years? The 15 million is too much, but the 4 years is what I would’ve balked at (and what the Mets would’ve balked at). Just not worth it considering his age. Again, we’re talking about a 5th starter. Too much is being made over it … we can live with Marshall, Gaudin, Hart, whoever, even Shark if push came to shove. Our season isn’t going to be made or broken on the 5th starter.

by toonsterwu on Jan 13, 2009 2:36 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You believe too much of what the media reports

I bet Derrek Lowe was a lot more in demand than you think. Hence why Atlanta ponied up $60 million. Keep in mind Atlanta very rarely makes bad financial decisions and operates with major budget limitations. So if they thought $60 million on Lowe was worthwhile then that carries extra weight with me.

by BLou on Jan 13, 2009 3:03 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, but

Atlanta has been striking out quite a bit this offseason on FAs. Maybe they felt like they needed to make a statement that their club was still relevant in the FA market. We saw the same thing with Soriano a few years ago.

by Tate491 on Jan 13, 2009 3:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well...

Derrek Lowe is a better pitcher than Ryan Dempster, and all that separates their contract packages is $6 million spread out over 4 years. So I’d say the Braves made a fair deal for themselves.

by BLou on Jan 13, 2009 4:08 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not true.

As discussed in other threads, the age spread between the two has Lowe being paid more at a much more advanced age.

While Lowe isn’t a power pitcher, the decline of Greg Maddux over the last few years has been there to see. And while Lowe over the last few years is better overall than Dempster, he was never “better” than Maddux.

by N Oakley on Jan 13, 2009 4:40 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Derrek Lowe will turn 39 on the last year of his contract...so what

Lowe has been remarkably healthy and consistent his entire career. And not being a power pitcher by definition lends to the belief that he stands good chance of remaining a quality pitcher throughout his contract. Ryan Dempster meanwhile has major arm surgery on his resume to go along with only one very good season of performance. The statistical odds of Lowe working out better than Dempster are damned good.

by BLou on Jan 14, 2009 10:22 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Very few pitchers, whether power pitchers or not, are effective at age 39. Whether

the effectiveness errodes due to use or age I can’t say. I will venture that provided Demp’s surgical repairs remain intact, and there is no reason to think they won’t (see Tommy John himself and his longevity post surgery), Demp’s time off may have reduced overall wear and tear.

I won’t challenge your statistics, but just say I don’t see any facts indicating Demp is more likely to fall off over the next 4 years than Lowe. Demp will still be at an age where decent pitchers are effective and Lowe will be up in rarified air agewise where only a few decent pitchers perform.

by N Oakley on Jan 14, 2009 11:49 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll stick with Demp

Demp is 4 years younger, so at contract end, he’s 36, Lowe is 40. I’ll take that 4 years and the fact he’s $8M cheaper than Lowe

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 14, 2009 12:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well...Rosenthal seems to be in the know

and he states this: The Braves paid $60MM for Derek Lowe, though no one else made a comparable offer. This is a testament to Scott Boras (and perhaps the Braves’ desperation), though Boras has more challenging work ahead in Manny Ramirez and Jason Varitek.

I found this on MLBTR just now with the source being Rosenthal himself.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 14, 2009 2:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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