Randy Wolf?
According to Bruce Miles's latest blog, the Cubs still consider Wolf an option for the 5th spot in the rotation. Personally, I'm not sure that would be much of an upgrade over Marshall and I'd rather see the young guy get a shot, but I guess pitching depth is always a good thing.
Other interesting items from the post include Hendry not exactly instilling a lot of optimism for those that want to see more Felix Pie
“Felix, obviously, has played very well defensively,” Hendry said. “He has not come around very well with the bat. It’s tough. We don’t have the luxury here to say, ‘Let’s run somebody out there for 140-50 games and see if they can hit.’ We’re here to win. We’re here to win a championship. When you get to the big leagues, it’s not about development much more. It’s about winning ballgames.”
Also sounds like the much discussed Paul Bako signing may happen this week. Not sure what the need for a switch hitting catcher is. Give me Blanco or give me death.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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130 comments
Comments
I'll be the first to admit...
…that I dont know much about Randy Wolf, but statistically I doubt he’d be a big upgrade of Shark, Marshall, or Gaudin (whichever is best during spring training).
In all seriousness, I’d much rather see the Cubs spend a few million on a solid reliever than a 5th starter.
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought you ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth.
Joe Garagiola
by Ryan at Cubshub on Jan 14, 2009 8:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wolf is an upgrade over those...
His ERA+ in his last 12 games last year with the Astros was 118 and has a career ERA+ of 101. Compare that to another lefty, Ted Lilly, whose ERA+ over his career is 103, and you can see what we’d be getting here from Wolf.
Adding a veteran lefty like Wolfie actually makes Shark, Marshall and Gaudin those solid relievers you’re talking about.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
by IowaCubs- on Jan 15, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not too worried about Bako
Soto is going to start 90%+ of the games. Now if Dusty were managing the team Bako would probably start over Soto. I’m actually surprised Barrett didn’t sign a contract with the Reds.
by ak123 on Jan 14, 2009 8:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wolf?
Yawn.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 14, 2009 8:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Don't we have enough wolves in Chicago already?

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 14, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My answer: No
Those WOLVES are much different than this Wolf. But hey, that’s just me.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Jan 15, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The right eye's significantly higher than the left.
That’s always bothered me.
make*art
by neverAcquiesce on Jan 15, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Too much symmetry and no one will relate the logo
with a face on a hockey team.
I read they made the image symmetrical and then beat it with a hockey stick to have it look authentic. j/k
by N Oakley on Jan 15, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's Ted Lilly, but 2" shorter...
…we don’t want any part of that do we?
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
by IowaCubs- on Jan 15, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wolf?
Really? I’m like Claude Raines at the Casablanca. Shocked, I tell you. Shocked.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 14, 2009 8:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wolf? Howl Howl Howl NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I really wanted Felix to work out, damnit. Who was our last farm-system success, sans Geo and possibly The Shark? Sigh.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Jan 14, 2009 8:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Pie...
Okay, so we can all agree he’s been excellent defensively, he’s got a great arm, and is fast… so why dump him and sign Gathright? He can’t hit either but his arm is nowhere near Pie’s and Felix could still possibly figure something out. I just don’t get this one.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jan 14, 2009 8:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Bruce explains this
sayin
Lou runs out of patience quickly, so if a guy doesn’t produce right away, he’s in a lot of trouble with Lou.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 14, 2009 10:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So Howry
was an exception I guess. Goodness Lou, everyone in life does adjust. So Pie gets what 150 AB’s and is a bust, great.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jan 14, 2009 11:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My guess is they believe
there’s more hole in Pie’s plate approach than any of us know, or less yet want to admit.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Jan 15, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If they believe that...
then they should have traded Pie last year. After all, Piniella clearly didn’t think Pie could do it as of spring training 2008. Sending him back to the minors and burning his last option year made no sense.
The mistake the Cubs made was in 2007 or early 2008. Either you play him for an extended period of time and see what he has, or you trade him while his value is high. Yanking him around and killing his confidence (and his trade value) is poor prospect management.
by SouthernCub on Jan 15, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly!!!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 15, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I understood the team was working with him in the offseason
think the AZ fall league but not sure.
Also, the circumstances the Cubs faced made it easier to push Pie aside. Face it, I’m not sure that at the start of ST anyone would know Reed Johnson was going to be released before the end of ST. Then go all-out to sign immediately with the Cubs. Then a month+ later Jimmy Hollywood would be let go by the Pads, only for the Cubs to pick him up at the pro-rata MLB minimum. Edmonds made $8M last season, the Cubs’ liability: $284k. Like those cartoon guys in the Guinness commercial (now I’m parched): Brilliant!
Hendry would have been a fool to bypass either of those guys; he got both.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Jan 15, 2009 10:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Still missing the point...
As soon as they knew that they weren’t going to use him, they should have sought out a trade. Doing that, rather than sending him down and burning his last option year, would have made more sense.
by SouthernCub on Jan 15, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
This whole situation with Pie was not the best showing by Cubs managment. These guys are paid to make decisions and their lack of movement in making a decision has cost the club. If Lou was firmly convinced he couldn’t play, he should have been moved. I sense that the lack of agreement between Lou and Hendry caused this situation. A good organization would have maximized Pie’s worth. They didn’t.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 15, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that a lot of this came from
Hendry and many others in Cub management wanting to believe in Pie and Lou not believing in him at all – which is fine. It’s good when you have different opinions represented in the organization.
But once Pie was up with the team, Lou should have played him for more than 4 days; or, Jim should have realized how strongly Lou felt and not sent up a guy Lou had no confidence in.
The upside of this is that it looks like Hendry and Lou are on the same page going into 2009 – Pie, Cedeno, and Hill will be gone. Samardzija will get a chance to start in AAA. Unless Colvin bounces back, there shouldn’t be any other problems like this for the next two years.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 15, 2009 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Could it possibly be
they tried and didn’t get any offer in return? Just because you don’t hear it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
Plus to top it off you don’t know anything about what’s happened with him since October 5th, do you?
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Jan 15, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I highly doubt that no one was interested
by SouthernCub on Jan 15, 2009 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
which means
they didn’t try to trade him. Or maybe even actively turned down offers for him.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 15, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or that they were continually low-balled by the offers that did come in.
I’ve said that there shouldn’t be much difference between Felix Pie’s value and Carlos Gonzalez’, but there is a real difference and that was that the Cubs telegraphed way back last summer that Pie wasn’t in their long-term plans. It is possible that the Cubs received no good offers.
What I think has happened is that Pie is locked in to any trade for Peavy that may or may not happen and that Hendry has not moved Cedeno or Pie for those reasons.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 15, 2009 7:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is correct
And if no Peavy deal goes down by the end of spring training, Hendry will trade Pie and Cedeno for prospects or a lefty reliever.
by SouthernCub on Jan 15, 2009 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is one of the biggest reasons to make the trade for Peavy in my mind.
The value of the several players SD seems to want will not be equal to Peavy in separate, smaller deals.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 15, 2009 8:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Pie is part of a deal for Peavy
I’m ok with that.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 16, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so you're saying his plate approach has a Piehole?
heyyy-ohhh!
it’s so cold out, my alderman has his hands in his own pocket!
Thank you, thank you, I’ll be here all week. Try the thin crust at Art’s!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jan 15, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tip the veal and try your waitress, ladies and germs!
RIP Ron Asheton (1948-2009)
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 15, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
please no Wolf
but if we do end up with him I may have to buy one of these shirts. They seem to get good reviews….
by bheidge on Jan 14, 2009 8:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Yes, please no Worf.
Oh, wait, you said Wolf… sorry, my bad… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jan 14, 2009 11:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh man...those comments are high-larious.
RIP Ron Asheton (1948-2009)
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 15, 2009 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One could argue...
with Hendry and said we did indeed have the luxury the last two seasons to find Pie some consistent playing time.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jan 14, 2009 9:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Or argue even further
wondering why we had the luxury to give Edmonds twice the time Pie had (twice when you include the SD time).
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 14, 2009 10:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
didn't Hendry go after Wolf a couple years ago
and didn’t Wolf end up signing with the Dodgers? I seem to remember Hendry being impressed by how Wolf handled the whole thing. Am I thinking of someone else?
by elgato on Jan 14, 2009 9:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps...
… a Furcal in Wolf’s clothing…
by initram on Jan 14, 2009 10:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they have the same agent...
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
by IowaCubs- on Jan 15, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I havent really heard of any update on the status of Henry,
but you gotta believe that the death in his family has affected him continuing his career.
Before the tragedy, it seemed like it was all but certain the he would be re-signed to a more Cubs-friendly deal. Now he’s fallen off the face of the earth and I don’t have a problem understanding that.
Maybe the Cubs will bring him in, in some form whether that be playing or catching, later on in the year or whenever he is ready.
"It's hard to win 97 games, it's hard to win the division. Our attitude is if you get in every year, you get in most of the time, sooner or later you are going to knock that door down." -- Jim Hendry
by EJThunder on Jan 14, 2009 9:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think you're right.
Coming off his 2008 performance, you’d think teams would have lined up to get him, yet there has been no news.
I repeat my prediction: he will retire as a player, take a year off to be with his family, then come back to the Cubs organization as a minor league coach/manager.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 15, 2009 4:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Bako Signing...
… will likely be blocked since the 40-man roster is packed. Either that, or we’ll start seeing DFA’s…
On another slightly OT note, I hear that Omar Vizquel may be close to signing with the Pads. This may tip things off regarding any potential Peavy trade. Perhaps they’d still want Cedeno, though…
by initram on Jan 14, 2009 10:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Vizquel...
… playing home games in pitcher friendly Petco Park… yikes.
by dmlichte on Jan 14, 2009 10:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They could also sign him to a minor league deal.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jan 14, 2009 11:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think they did have the luxury of testing Pie last year
they led the league in runs and won the division by a fair margin, had they given him the job in April, they couldve know by august whether or not his results were real one way or another, and moved on from there
there is just no excuse for the horrible mismanagment of the teams top prospect, he was, for all intents and purposes, thrown away after one month…imagine where the redsox wouldve been had they done the same with Pedroia-sure he’s the better player, but he struggle just as much in his first month of 07
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jan 14, 2009 11:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Honestly though,
I was at plenty of games at Wrigley early last season, and Pie looked awful. Just awful. It would have been a complete waste to leave him in the lineup. He just looked lost.
I do agree with you about the mismanagement though. Once the team realized that Pie wasn’t going to get enough major league at-bats to improve last year, he should have been gone soon after. Instead, Hendry buries him so deep on the depth chart that you’d be lucky to get a couple of bad A prospects for him in trade. It’s a shame.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 14, 2009 11:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know you were at plenty of games, but...
… the most consecutive games he started was FOUR. (The first four games of the season)
In those four games he went 3-for-15 with four strikeouts. Now, that isn’t great, but is that enough to justify benching him? As noted, the Cubs had the luxury to give him a couple months of full-time (or at least full-time platoon) playing time.
Lou wasn’t willing to do that. As noted above, once Lou makes up his mind about something, it’s nearly impossible to change it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 15, 2009 4:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I thought his leash was pretty short too...
But what do you want? He wasn’t getting on base, he was trying to pull everything, and he wouldn’t lose that damn uppercut in his swing. I think this was a case where the stats really don’t tell the full story of how over matched he actually was.
For what it’s worth, I was very impressed with him in September. I think he has a good future; just not with Chicago.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 15, 2009 6:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well thats the point, your last sentence
If that showed anything, it showed that his receptive to coaching and perhaps he realized that the CF job wouldnt be gifted to him that he had to listen and implement the coaches plans for him.
Is he gonna be Grady Sizemore? Of course not, but can be he an everyday player? I dont see why not
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jan 15, 2009 7:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
Unfortunately, with Gathright now on the roster, Pie will probably be traded. Hopefully, he’ll have another one of his typical great spring trainings to increase his trade value.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 15, 2009 7:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
I suspect that Pie being sent back to the minors was more a coaching issue than anything else. But if he’s ready to listen, it can only help.
The whole thing is really moot though. His fate was sealed when Fukudome stopped hitting, and sadly, everyone seemed to acknowledge it but Jim Hendry. Personally, I really don’t care if he stays or goes, but I am upset about how Hendry has managed that resource — and the situation in general. If Pie doesn’t fit the plan, get him somewhere else, and quit letting the bottom fall out on his value.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 15, 2009 8:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is sad
Bako instead of Hank White for what, 1M difference? And to even consider Randy Wolf is a joke. No Freaking Randy Wolf please.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jan 14, 2009 11:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Marshall can do what Wolf would for far cheaper
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jan 15, 2009 7:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps...
but at least some in the Cubs organization feel differently.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 15, 2009 8:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn you, Rich Hill!
its all his fault
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jan 15, 2009 8:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2.5 Milllion difference, I believe...
which is rather significant given the front office’s statements this offseason.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jan 15, 2009 10:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
$2.5 million AND left-handedness...
In case people haven’t noticed, Piniella and Hendry seem to be on a quest to become more left-handed. Blanco bats right-handed, and that puts him out of the picture.
by SouthernCub on Jan 15, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yech, don't remind me...
I’ve had my share of that convenient little scapegoat.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jan 15, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't apply here
Dollars and sense applies. Left side / right side batting doesn’t create much issue for a player out there 15% of the time.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Jan 15, 2009 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its to bad
that Hank White will no longer be a Cub. He will be missed by many, including Geo im sure. However why do we need Bako. I thought Koyie Hill was pretty good in the short sample set we’ve seen. And he’s a switch hitter.
by JJDiesel21 on Jan 15, 2009 12:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah me too ...
Why Bako ?? When Koyie Hill seems fine … if Soto plays even 80% – 90% of the time i think Hill showed enough that he can handle the rest
"If loving Peyton Manning is wrong, I don't wanna be right"
by ClarkFan44 on Jan 15, 2009 3:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well....
….Koyie Hill didn’t hit when he was up last year. And he needs to correct the fact that he “tips” off whether the pitcher is throwing a breaking ball or a fast ball by the way he positions himself behind the plate.
I’d rather have a veteran, especially for the continued development of Soto.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jan 15, 2009 6:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Pie argument all over again.............
I just want to clear one thing up: The Cubs won the division easily, but that was at the end of the regular season. When they played that 4 game set with the Brewers that they swept everything was stll up for grabs.
Lou made some decisions early in the season that contributed heavily to the cubs winning margin later on: he used Marmol a lot, he took Hill out of the rotation and he took Pie off the lineup. Had Lou given Pie 2 months to see what he could do it is very probable that the Cubs don’t sign Edmonds and then that wide margin that a lot of people talk about doesn’t materialize.
Lou was right about Hill, even though some questioned his quick hook (including myself). And about Pie…… oh boy. Let me just tell you that Pie was benched by Licey in the winter leagues. And it’s not like he was benched in favor of some great players either. If Pie can’t even make the team in the winter leagues, what do you expect?
Lou’s quick decisiones last year may well have been the difference in the Cubs winning the division. Let’s give credit where credit is due.
by Luis on Jan 15, 2009 3:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Meant to say
Had Lou given Pie 2 months to see what he could do it is very probable that the Cubs don’t sign Edmonds and then that wide margin that a lot of people talk about perhaps doesn’t materialize.
by Luis on Jan 15, 2009 3:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But you don't know that.
Maybe if Pie gets regular playing time, he starts getting comfortable and hits. We just don’t know, because no one gave him the chance.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 15, 2009 4:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing in life is certain
It’s all probabilities. And it’s looking like Lou made the best decision in terms of probability. Pie has flopped in every profesional league (winter leagues and major leagues) he has played, and in every year. And let’s not forget that they gave him almost 200+ at bats in 2007 and he flopped really really bad. He also flopped while looking really bad too. The people that think Lou made a bad a decision should come to grips with the fact that the team in the winter leagues, with less talent available, made the exact same decision. That is saying something.
by Luis on Jan 15, 2009 4:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One thing I want to point out though
As one poster already said, is that I don’t understand the Gathright signing, unless Pie is dealt for someone useful. Otherwise he would be a better bench player than Gathright.
by Luis on Jan 15, 2009 4:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Hendry is thinking Pie is overqualified to be a bench player
whereas Gathright has just enough talent/qualifications for his bench role. So slotting Gathright into that role instead of Pie is being more efficient. Plus it gives Hendry a potentially valuable trading chip – at least more valuable than Gathright. And ideally that trade would net something that the Cubs can use elsewhere.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jan 15, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Correct...
Gathright is a bench player. Pie is a prospect. If you don’t put your prospects in position to play regularly, you should trade him. That’s what it http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/1/14/724386/randy-wolf#appears the Cubs will do with Pie.
by SouthernCub on Jan 15, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoah, that's weird...
should just say “what it appears…” not “what it (insert web link) appears”
by SouthernCub on Jan 15, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Flopped?
He hit .362/.410/.563 in half a season’s play in AAA in 2007.
He hit .287/.336/.466 in half a season’s play in AAA in 2008.
That doesn’t scream “flop” to me. I think Pie was overmatched in the majors in 2007 — but how can you say they gave him a chance to play in 2008 when he started FOUR games and then got anchored to the bench?
He might have failed if they had given him two months. But we will never know.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 15, 2009 4:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Geez
Sometimes I get the feeling people don’t read what I write.
I specifically said winter leagues and major leagues. A, AA, AAA, while generally considered “professional” are not what I considered professional, because the pressure to win there is not at all comparable to what you get in the bigs and winter leagues.
I just encourage people to think long and hard about the fact that Pie was benched in the Dominican league THIS year. For a guy who is excellent defensively, and with the much limited competition in this league, he was benched. If that doesn’t say something I don’t know what does.
Pie was benched not just because he put up awful numbers, but because he looked horrendous. Had Piniella not benched Pie, and had the Cubs not gotten Edmonds, it’s fair to say that the division race would have been closer and under that pressure who knows if the Cubs would have won it. This is not a fact, but the most likely scenario. And that is what we work with.
by Luis on Jan 15, 2009 5:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, you contradicted yourself in that post...
you said “every professional league” and then in parentheses “winter leagues and major leagues.” Every professional league would include the minors, in which he most certainly did not flop.
I’m not saying your point is necessarily wrong – just that you shouldn’t blast a poster for misinterpreting something that you presented in the wrong way.
by SouthernCub on Jan 15, 2009 8:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you.
I read “professional leagues” as including the minor leagues.
Pie did NOT look horrendous in the minor leagues.
Further, I still maintain that four games is not long enough to decide if a player “looks horrendous”, especially when those games were played in cold weather. Maybe Pie is one of those players who doesn’t do well in the cold.
I guess we’ll never know for sure.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 15, 2009 8:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Guess I should have been more. Like I stated later, I don’t consider the minors to be “professional” leagues, but that’s my own definition not the one widely used. In any case, I meant the majors and the winter leagues.
by Luis on Jan 15, 2009 8:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry.
You should have been more specific. Minor leagues are definitely “professional” leagues, as that word implies that players are being paid to play.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 15, 2009 8:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No worries.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 15, 2009 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and those winter leagues
are filled with guys who set records who don’t amount to anything in MLB. That’s like saying Sam Fuld is a superstar becausde of his previous AFL success.
Winter League = AAA Compeition
Not a good sign he was benched. But it doesn’t mean anything because we do no know the context of his performance. Is he taking 2 strikes every at bat to gain better zone judgment and pitch recognition? Is he working on taking everything to LF? There could be a myriad of things that we do not know. I wouldn’t put a lot of stock into it, but that’s just my take.
by socalbob on Jan 15, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So he's Crash Davis.
The guy is a bummer…well to agree with the above post, the management made him a total bummer. Should’ve traded him when he looked like the next star sensation.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Jan 15, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
how many games
can we say Edmonds won for us? Don’t get me wrong — I came around on the guy long ago, and I know he contributed, but how many did he WIN?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 15, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Two games immediately spring to mind
June 21 vs. White Sox (his 2 HR in 1 inning game)
Aug. 8 vs. Cardinals (his 2 HR were the Cubs’ only runs until Hank White won it in the 11th)
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Jan 15, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Edmonds had a two home-run game...
…in that sweep of the Brewers at Miller Park. One of them was a granny. Then Gagne threw behind Jimbo in his last AB. What a tool.
RIP Ron Asheton (1948-2009)
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 15, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Solo shot to RF, granny to LC
I was there to see the 11-4 “lathering” (Bob Picozi ESPN term) to complete the sweep.
There’s also the LF shot on the 60-yr throw-back game 6/12 against the Braves that won it late I believe. Len did the Jack Brickhouse, “….that-a boy Jimmy! Weeeeeee!”
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Jan 15, 2009 8:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Edmonds' HR on 6/12...
… tied the game with two out in the bottom of the 9th. The win came in the 12th when Reed Johnson got hit by a pitch with the bases loaded.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 16, 2009 7:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that was a GREAT game.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 16, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no wolf
We should either get peavy…or let marshall have the job.
Also, why sign bako? soto is going to play most of the games and koyie hill would be a fine backup….he does exactly what backup catchers should do—play well defensively. And he still comes really cheap.
by cubsmania on Jan 15, 2009 9:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't like Bako much
but defencively he’s better than Hill but neither hit much.
It just goes to show how tight the purse strings are before the new ownership comes in. Hendry is down to the several hundred $k here, several hundred $k there.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Jan 15, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
bako is better
but is it worth spending the extra money for him so he can catch a few games next year?…….Atleast koyie has caught a lot of the cubs pitchers in the past and should have a decent feel for them.
by cubsmania on Jan 15, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Better than whom?
Blanco? I hope that’s not what you’re saying.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Jan 15, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hill was his intent, I believe.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jan 15, 2009 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes I was talking about being better than hill...
I don’t see blanco being back with the cubs….seemed like if he was coming back a deal would have been done by now with him.
by cubsmania on Jan 15, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sign Wolf
only if it means his brother Jim won’t kick Ted Lilly out of games for no apparent reason.
Yes, Randy Wolf’s brother, Jim, was the home plate umpire for this game.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Jan 15, 2009 10:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wandy Rolf?
no thank you
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Jan 15, 2009 12:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You're probably thinking of...
…Wandy Wad-we-guez.
RIP Ron Asheton (1948-2009)
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 15, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think your wight
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Jan 15, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Felix Pie
Jim Hendry spoke of Felix Pie like a true diplomat. If the organization had any measure of faith that Pie could eventually hit major league pitching at a satisfactory clip then they wouldn’t have made the moves they have over the past two years.
I am long time Pie critic. Everybody around here nows that. But let me just add that I live in 0% fear that Felix Pie will ever accomplish a thing in the majors. In fact I’ll take it a next step and say he will do less in the majors than what Corey Patterson has done since leaving the flock. He’s not major league material folks.
by BLou on Jan 15, 2009 12:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Pie's performance after this point is really not the issue. What should be gained from
this situation is how to best maximize an asset. Organizations swing and miss on players all of the time, but at least give it your best shot. While we may disagree on the handling of Pie, the thing that is certain is that the number one prospect in this organization has failed to produce for the club, again!
The sucess of players like Soto and Marmol has lessened the blow, but something is missing here and has been for a long time. Either the Cubs are drafting the wrong guys or are failing to develop them properly. This needs to be addressed and adressed quickly. The top prosoects need to contribute to the big club. The teams that are contending now have brought god young talent to the big leagues and the Cubs should be able to do it also.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 15, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There's never a good time to "sell" a top prospect
Cubs poured a lot of faith and investment in Felix Pie working out. They stuck with him and were patient with him. This time last year I am sure that organizational assessment of Felix Pie was that he was still salvageable and would eventually carve out a good major league existence. So why then trade him at the time? Answer is you wouldn’t.
One year later and Felix Pie can objectively be labeled a flop. And you can bet the ranch that is the general consensus of scouts across baseball, which therefore means there is doubtful much of a trade market for Pie. And any team who might want Pie certainly isn’t going to trade anything more than a used infield rake.
It’s just the way these things work out. I have been diehard since 1977. During that timeI can count on multiple hands the list of “can’t miss” Cubbie positional prospects who missed. And missed horribly.
by BLou on Jan 15, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you honestly say that player development in this organization
is where it should be? The hanling of Pie is a moot point. That ship has sailed. The more important question here is are the Cubs drafting and developing the best talent? Clearly the answer is no. Watching teams like Tampa and Philly in the WS only enhances that argument. These teams have been very successful at drafting players and getting them to produce at the major league level.
The Cubs have spent a lot of money and effort at acquiring players from other organizations. While it’s true that prospects allow you to acquire other players, the majority of you team should be home grown. This allows you a lot more flexibility with your payroll. I would like to see a day when the Cubs can bring a wealth of talent to the big leagues and see them excel in Cubbie blue, not some other teams uniform.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 15, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs are horrible at scouting, signing and developing positional talent
It’s been the case for over 30 years with exclusion of the wonderful Dallas Green years. I think it starts with prospect acquisition. To me the continuing problem is scouting failure. Not only higher round draft picks (e.g., Corey Patterson, Ryan Harvey, Brian Dopirak) but also the Latino kids signed off the islands (e.g., Felix Pie).
Also, I’ll be honest in saying that I’m not at all wild about the first few years of the Tim Wilken regime.
by BLou on Jan 15, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You've stated that many times before.
How do you think Reed Johnson got here.
by Slamdog on Jan 15, 2009 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're so wrong...
and contradicting of yourself. You have repeatedly insisted that Lou (and management) see all sorts of holes in Pie’s game and you contend that they believe Pie will not be a major leaguer. So why would they hold onto Pie if, as you say, Lou has ZERO faith in Pie? If the Cubs viewed Pie in that light, then the BEST solution would have been to trade him at his MAXIMUM value, rather than be caught in our current situation.
Please give me examples about this supposed “patience” with Pie? We “poured a lot of faith and investment in Felix Pie working out”? I must have missed that.
There are so many holes in your argument I cannot keep up.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jan 15, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm.
When you count up scouting time, signing bonus, coaching time, years in the system, etc… then it is clear the Cubs had substantial investment made in Felix Pie. Baseball teams don’t establish baseball academies in the Dominican, dole out handsome signing bonuses and spend years on the care and feeding of prospects only to carelessly and abruptly toss them to the curve.
Felix Pie had three years at Triple A. To go along with spring training invites and several big league trials. Also, the Cub organization has been looking at and examining Felix Pie every single hour of his existence in the Cub system.
So yes, the organization was patient with one of their major investments. They stuck with Pie for as long as it was viewed wise to do so.
by BLou on Jan 15, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
...
So if Lou decided he wasn’t major league material, why did we yank him around another 2 years? My problem with the whole thing is not that I believe Pie will be great, but just that we’ve backed ourselves into a corner here. Lou comes in, gives him a look in 07, doesn’t approve…then we should trade while his value is reasonably high. But we kept him around, spot starting here and there, back and forth to the majors, etc.
Felix Pie has proved himself at AAA. He possessed value last year and the year before, but now his value has dropped because we failed to sell high on a prospect you yourself said was not supported by the coaching staff (in the sense that Lou didn’t think he had what it takes).
Minor league wonders are valuable, and many trades are predicated on players that never fulfill potential. But we didn’t trade Pie. We backed ourselves into a corner where interest is limited and our roster is full.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jan 15, 2009 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No one knows the full story
I do remember both Perry and Piniella spending a lot of time with him last off-season.
My speculation is that heading into last season the Cubs were hoping for Pie to assume the starting role however I think Piniella was not happy in the spring with Pie’s approach or the fact that he didn’t seem to be following what Perry and Piniella tried to get him to do. It was at that point that Piniella reached the decision that he wasn’t going to make it and then Johnson and Edmonds came along. I really don’t think the decision was made 2 years ago. In 2007 I suspect the decision was he wasn’t ready not that he wasn’t going to make it.
At this point, I think his future with Cubs is non-existent. He’ll be gone shortly.
by rlpete on Jan 15, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Blou
the Cubs have not poured faith into Felix and they have been anything but patient. When a player does not start more than 4 consecutive games at any point during the season regardless of production, it is not defined as “patient.”
You may be right about scouts souring on him, but there is a Mike Piazza (scouts wrong) for every A-Rod. They aren’t the end all evaluators. I, and many others, don’t see the “flop” that you suggest. He’s young, been young for his league, and has dominated. That doesn’t scream flop as minor league performance is the truest indicator on a player’s potential.
We do have a terrible track record and have been piss-poor evaulators for decades. I still believe Pie has more value than you subscribe to and we’ll see come ST how this plays out.
by socalbob on Jan 15, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes there is...
when the “perceived” value is high.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Jan 15, 2009 8:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, giving credit where credit is due...
…you predicted/surmised some time ago that the Cubs had given up on Felix Pie. And Hendry’s latest comments coupled with the acquistion of Gathright make that all but a certainty at this point. So kudos.
Now whether Felix ever becomes a productive major league player, well, that remains to be seen. If he never gets his swing together – or perhaps never gets an adequate opportunity to prove himself at the plate – then, yes, he could fall short of what (little) Corey Patterson has accomplished. But I still think he could stick somewhere as a fourth outfielder – especially if he can show the capacity to steal bases at a regular clip. I mean, Willy Taveras has a job, doesn’t he?
RIP Ron Asheton (1948-2009)
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 15, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pie
isn’t traded yet. We’ll see.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 15, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I'd love to see the kid get a shot, too...
…but it really looks like his only shot at staying a Cub at this point is if Slappy Joe Gathright trips over a car in the next week or two.
RIP Ron Asheton (1948-2009)
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 15, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Regardless of whether Pie makes it or not
I really really don’t want to see Slappy Gathright on this team.
by rlpete on Jan 15, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But it's one or the other, don'tcha think?
RIP Ron Asheton (1948-2009)
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 15, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so.
I think the person blocking Pie from another shot with the Cubs is Fukudome.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 15, 2009 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But given that Fukudome is blocking Pie...
Gathright’s presence means Pie won’t make the team.
Fukudome/Bradley block Pie’s path to being an everyday player. But the signing of Gathright blocks Pie’s spot on the bench too.
by SouthernCub on Jan 15, 2009 7:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're really holding on to the dream, aren't you...
It’s pretty clear he’s getting traded. EVERYTHING suggests it. The evidence was strong going into the offseason, but the signing of Gathright and Bradley sealed the deal.
by SouthernCub on Jan 15, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Till he's gone
I’ll hold out. :D After all, many people predicted the demise of Mark DeRosa’s Cub career last off season too…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 15, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well one way or another, Project 3000 is getting a small infusion of cash by Sunday night
A few months ago I made a bet with someone here – Shangai Badger, was it you? I recall a Wisconsin connection somehow.
Anyway, the bet was whether or not Felix Pie would still be with the Cubs by the close of the Cubs Convention. I said he would be – and my distinguished opponent took the opposite position. Loser makes a contribution to Project 3000.
It’s not too late – put your money where your comments are and help a good cause!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jan 15, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've got that bet too
don’t I?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 16, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really the same situation though...
With DeRosa, the speculation was that we were going to go out and get Roberts. With Pie, we’ve ALREADY gotten his replacement.
That, and I don’t think the speculation of DeRosa leaving was nearly as prevalent as is the speculation that Pie is leaving.
But, I guess don’t stop believing. It’ll all get figured out soon enough. I’m sad that the Cubs gave up on him, but I think the evidence suggests they’ve moved on.
by SouthernCub on Jan 15, 2009 6:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Wolf is an aspiring Ted Lilly type
That’s a very good thing in my estimation. Lilly might only be a 6 inning pitcher, but hard to quibble with the solid value he has delivered in 2007 and 2008. Lilly takes the ball and gives his team quality starts. A health Randy Wolf can do the same.
If the mission is to win a World Series then YES I would love to have Wolf. I have never been sold on Sean Marshall as a starting pitcher.
by BLou on Jan 15, 2009 12:51 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
So mediocre/bad veteran pitcher is better than...
mediocre/good young pitcher. Got it.
by SouthernCub on Jan 15, 2009 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wolf at one year is not a bad option, but please no multi year deal
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on Jan 15, 2009 9:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's ironic that someone who bemoans the state of the farm
refuses to believe in the products of teh farm…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 16, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the two go hand-in-hand...
If you think the farm system is in shambles, naturally you’ll think that the products of that farm system aren’t any good.
by SouthernCub on Jan 16, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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