Trade Idea: Ryan Howard!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 17, 2009 5:52 PM CST Comment 45 comments

I was thinking about some trade ideas today and Ryan Howard came to mind. The Phillies have an abundance of Major League youngsters who are arb eligible(10 in all). A good PROBLEM to have.

Ryan Howard won in arbitration last year and got a whopping 10 Million dollar award. Jayson Starks reports he may ask for 15+ this year. I think he may come close to getting it. This says he is still eligible for 2 more years after this one

All said the Phillies have never had a bigger payroll than 103 million from what I see. Will they sign all players,address other needs, and raise payroll that high?? I've read rumblings of the Phillies exploring trades for their big slugging 1st baseman in the past.

With all that being said what would it take to get Howard? What about a Lee, Marshall, and a couple prospects for him? Lee would cost them 2yr/26 million, the others would be relatively cheap for them. They would be getting salary relief and a gold glove caliber 1b that hits for descent avg for 2 yrs. I think they could handle the loss of power with that lineup they have. They would surely gain avg and defense with Lee over Howard.

It would all hinge on Lee waiving his no trade clause and thats anyone's guess if he would or wouldnt.

We would get a monster lefty in the middle of our lineup all the while getting younger. Can you imagine Bradley,Ramirez,Howard in the middle of a lineup that also contains Soriano and Soto? WOW!! Just the thought of it gives me chills.

The move this year would only cost us about 2-3 million more if he got what he wanted in arbitration.

This might be a crazy idea but I think its at least a little feasible given the Phillies abundance of young mlb arbitration cases that will seemingly haunt them for years to come.

Thoughts,Reaction, Other Ideas???

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Lee's already pretty much said he wouldn't waive the NTC.

You did say “this might be a crazy idea”. I agree with that statement.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 17, 2009 5:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

LOL

No way

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Jan 17, 2009 6:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Although I would love Ryan

Just no way.

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Jan 17, 2009 6:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

but...

no way—why?? The phillies wouldnt do this?? there definitely gonna have to do something quick. they addressed the hamels situation today but it seems howard isnt signing for anything less than the max. There will be some hard feelings between him and mgmnt b4 its all over if there already isnt.

I dont care who the new owner is as long as he/she/them come equipped with a Jake Peavy and a Joe Beimel!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 17, 2009 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No they wouldnt do it

They will keep going yer for year with him… he is too important.

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Jan 17, 2009 9:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good one!

I think this was brought up after the season ended and we all jonesed about it, but I have a better chance of starting for the Cubs than Howard.

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Jan 17, 2009 6:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Why would the Phillies GM

agree to such a one sided deal? He’s not a Cubs fan.

by Clark Addison on Jan 17, 2009 6:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

like I said

they have almost half their mlb roster full of arb cases. Howard seemingly isnt giving any. They went to a hearing last year and he won. they seem to be headed that way again. from everything Ive heard those hearings are brutal with both sides smearing each other into the ground. How long will that kinda relationship last ,coupled with an already close to max payroll.

There arent many teams that can/will take on that kinda salary. I just wanted to spark a discussion and throw out an idea.

I dont care who the new owner is as long as he/she/them come equipped with a Jake Peavy and a Joe Beimel!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 17, 2009 6:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's see if we can get Pujols!

Maybe they’ll take Rich Hill, So Taguchi and a glop of Zambrano’s ear wax!

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jan 17, 2009 6:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I know it sounds crazy

but they have ALOT of arbitration cases to deal with.

I dont care who the new owner is as long as he/she/them come equipped with a Jake Peavy and a Joe Beimel!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 17, 2009 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I almost spit out my incredibly good tasting Busch Light.

No way in hell. Ryan Howard is one of the top 10 players in baseball, hits the bloody crap outta the baseball, and is only 29. Maybe if we traded them GeoSoto and two other quality players, they would CONSIDER it, but we wouldn’t want that deal.

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Jan 17, 2009 6:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

1st off busch is disgusting try bud light

2nd Howard isnt taking any deal only max cash. They have a huge decision to make and its only gonna get bigger by the year.

I dont care who the new owner is as long as he/she/them come equipped with a Jake Peavy and a Joe Beimel!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 17, 2009 6:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

How bout some Colt 45!?

Trading Howard?
Philadelphia will run new GM Ruben Amaro Jr. out of town!

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton

by CubFreak on Jan 18, 2009 8:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Keep in mind...

…. that for about 2/3 of last season, any Phillie fan would have gladly sent Howard packing. He went on a tear to end the season but overall, he had some horrible runs.

by dmlichte on Jan 17, 2009 6:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

yes he did

all the more reason why this trade doesnt sound so outlandish. they would get a more rounded vet ,at a for sure price. Lets say he comes close to getting the 15 million reportedly being sought. what will it be next year or even the next? Yankees are locked in. cards are locked in. us, boSox and maybe one other are the only ones that could come anywhere close to being able to take on that kinda contract and give up anything of value.

the phillies still have a boat load of great talent who will be seeking monster raises at an already strapped budget.

I dont care who the new owner is as long as he/she/them come equipped with a Jake Peavy and a Joe Beimel!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 17, 2009 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I see it as...

… all the more reason why the Cubs shouldn’t want him. This team doesn’t need any more “all or nothing” hitters and they frankly cannot afford to pay what will be necessary to keep him around.

by dmlichte on Jan 17, 2009 6:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you may be right

I just thought this was an interesting topic considering the 2 teams needs,payroll, etc. I have been back and forth on this whole thing all day and just wanted to spark a discussion on it.

I dont care who the new owner is as long as he/she/them come equipped with a Jake Peavy and a Joe Beimel!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 17, 2009 6:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you're defining the term "fan"

because you’re being so naively ‘fanatical’. It doesn’t matter that the Phillies have “a roster full of arbitration cases.” It doesn’t matter what Howard is asking for. The plain, simple logic of the matter is that Ryan Howard is a Philly. He hits the ball hard, makes opposing pitchers cower in their booties, and is hitting his prime. For the Phillies to make this deal would be tantamount to Broglio-for-Brock, with Philadelphia at the short end. It simply will not happen. The Phillies GM will never do it. I suggest you stop suggesting the impossible and return to the light.

by northernsails on Jan 18, 2009 6:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It wouldn't be Broglio-for-Brock...

… unless Howard is playing the Broglio role. Remember, Brock was the unknown kid and Broglio the established 20-game winner when that trade was made.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 18, 2009 7:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The term is satisfactory...

The term “Brock for Broglio” is used to represent an unfair trade for either side. In this case, Any deal which would net the Cubs Howard would be a defrocking of both clubs as the Phillies wont likely part with him for anything less than Soto and at least 2 of our top prospects. Anything less than that would be an awful trade on the Phillies’ part. He’s simply too big a name.

by northernsails on Jan 18, 2009 7:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess we'll see

the philles and ryan howard wont keep going into arbitration year after year smearing each other into the ground, then the arbitrator awarding him some insane amount of money year after year.

everything written to date suggest he will ask for 15-17 million and unwilling to negotiate anything less. he’s still arb eligible for 2 years after this one. they have numerous (something like 8 more) players in the same arbitration boat that will keep commanding raises and their payroll is almost strapped from everything I’m reading.

no ones gonna take on that kinda contract headache and give up 2-3 cost efficient, top prospects. there are very few teams that can even pay that kinda contract anyway let alone give up cheap quality talent. I’ve made some very valid points and all some of you keep saying is it will never happen or they would be stupid to do it. They very well might be crazy to do such a trade but the economy sucks and they only have so much payroll. Howard seems to be their only one that don’t wanna even negotiate a fair deal. He wants top dollar period.

Like I said it will be very interesting to see how it plays out with all of their arbitration cases. The Howard/Phillies marriage WILL NOT make it through too many of those hearings. I’ve never seen an employee go head to head with his boss over money and keep coming out ahead.

I dont care who the new owner is as long as he/she/them come equipped with a Jake Peavy and a Joe Beimel!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 18, 2009 8:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They discussed this on XM yesterday

Talking about Prince and Howard, regarding which one is more likely to be dealt….I believe it was Buster Olney who seemed to think the Phils would have to eventually trade Howard, though more likely around 2010.

That being said, he is the kind of guy you’d empty the farm for, hell maybe by 2010 or so Vitters’ trade value would have sky rocketed and the Phils would be in need of a 3B

A Howard trade anywhere at this point doesnt seem likely, but it would be worth entering the fray as a lot can change b/t now and 2010 or whenver they might be forced to trade him.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jan 17, 2009 6:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

but Bren

I agree Howard is worth alot but like I said earlier there isnt gonna be a real huge market for players with that price tag. No matter what he cant make less in arbitration than he did the year b4. Will they take that kinda chance with an already strapped payroll and more arb raises forthcoming? Yankees are set. Angels could use a 1b but keep balking when the price for a big time player gets crazy. They have Lackey and more to worry about. BoSox is a maybe. who else could afford him??

I dont care who the new owner is as long as he/she/them come equipped with a Jake Peavy and a Joe Beimel!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 17, 2009 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Cubs

Im sorry, maybe Im not understanding what youre getting at…..but I think there would be a substantial market for Howard….depending on when it is, if he walks into FA after his deal in Philly is up, Lee will be gone from the Cubs….if he’s available for trade, someone could make a Billy Beane move and rent him for a year or so and then flip him before the deal is up (whether or not they win).

So the Cubs can afford him, the Sox might need a 1B by the time he hits FA, when that is Im not sure, cant be too far off right?….the Angels as you said, the Yankees could use him at DH, leaving Tex at 1B….Boston could use him, the Nats might spend money by then, the Mets will need a 1B soon.

So to say there isnt a market for a left handed, power hitting, crowd pleasing, on base machine, MVP is wrong IMO.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jan 17, 2009 7:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So you want

the cubs to get a young lefty that hits 40+ HR and 100+RBI and year who plays average D and strikes out a lot but plays over 150 games a year. I think I requested that too but they signed Milton Bradley instead of Adam Dunn. That said a trade for Ryan Howard is “Not bloody likely.”

by JJDiesel21 on Jan 17, 2009 8:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

It's nice to dream

But this is a dream. They simply can’t break up their lineup this year, not with Utley out at the top of the year. More than likely, they will move him, but only when they have to.

And the package, whenever they move him (or if they move him), is likely to be bigger than you might think – Howard is the type of player that might generate it, depending on how he performs in the next year or so. Bren is right – more teams can get in it than you might think. Let’s assume they deal him next offseason. The Red Sox/Yankees could all find roles for him and have the talent to make a deal. The Blue Jays have some money clearing up that, if they moved guys around, it’s not impossible. The White Sox could ponder it as Dye/Konerko clears. The Orioles could ponder a deal a year from now, when they have a better grasp on how their young pitching will develop. Go down the line – Atlanta will have money next offseason again and they could ponder it. Mets could, Giants might be able to as well. There’s probably a few other teams missing.

They can fit Howard in this year, and then after this year, they’ll probably ponder a move if they can find a replacement. They have some nice minor league chips coming up, so this minor league season will be crucial for them.

by toonsterwu on Jan 17, 2009 8:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

let me just ask...

if you were phillies gm would you do this?…..I would laugh

by cubsmania on Jan 17, 2009 9:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Why can't these theoretical trades be at least somewhat realistic

Howard is one of the best players in the game. The Phillies aren’t likely to keep him to much longer, but there is no way Lee, Marshall, and some of our worthless prospects are going to bring Howard to Chicago.

When Philly does trade him, teams will be lining up with a list of prospects stronger than anything the Cub’s will be able to offer. Thats just the current state of the Cubbies system.

Sad, but true.

by Chippered on Jan 17, 2009 9:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

BTW to the OP

sorry if i sounded dismissive at first. I mean this wont happen. But its interesting to think of

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Jan 17, 2009 10:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Sounds...

like he’ll be traded in the next 1-2 years, but I doubt the Cubs are his landing place.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Jan 18, 2009 2:05 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

thanks for the duscussion

just wanted to throw this out there. I dont think any team has ever had to deal with that many arb. cases with players of that magnitude. It will be interesting to see how they handle it . The Marlins would have I think but they had a firesale. That Amaro guy has his work cut out for him.

I dont care who the new owner is as long as he/she/them come equipped with a Jake Peavy and a Joe Beimel!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 18, 2009 6:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Please

if and when the Phillies move Howard, they will want quality young players in return. Lee, Marshall and a few prospects? Give me one reason why they would take that compared to what someone else might offer?

Start with Soto and/or Marmol and go from there.

by rlpete on Jan 18, 2009 7:58 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Face it, we have no farm system.

we can’t get guys that good in a trade with the current state of our system. Sorry.

by reedjohnson on Jan 18, 2009 8:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Lets see here

We could not get a Peavy deal done with a club wishing the pitcher gone.
We could not get a Roberts deal done when the entire world knew it was what Hendry wanted more than sex itself.

How do you think that a Howard deal would actually happen based on the above? The asking price for Howard will be more than either of the two above based on the fact that he is more valuable than Roberts, and not being pushed out of town like Peavy.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 18, 2009 9:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don't

think you are that far off the Cubs trading Lee though not for Howard.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Jan 18, 2009 2:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Only if Lee

agrees and so far he hasn’t.

by sue369 on Jan 18, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Three Questions

To trade Lee

1. Who would he accept being traded to based on having a NTC
2. Who will take his salary during the decline of his career
3. What would we actually get in return, when it would be no surprise we are dumping

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 18, 2009 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Answers

1) Warm area team
2) His salary by todays standards not that bad
3) Totally a salary dump move to free up cash for another player.

One question you did not ask is who would replace him? This i have no idea.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Jan 19, 2009 7:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not quite.

Where have you read that he would waive his NTC to go to a “warm area team”? From what I hear, he isn’t waiving it for anyone.

Nitpick: “Salary dump” usually refers to a team getting rid of a contract to save money, not to spend it on another player.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 19, 2009 7:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No where really

Just per fan speculation. This helps me get through this time of the year.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Jan 19, 2009 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But than

again regarding his no waive deal. I am sure over time there have been plenty of players with this clause. I am also sure that many times it was thought and or said that the player would not accept a trade. But surprise.

I guess my point is if I am in Lee’s boots, I certainly would not accept a trade will say to the Indians, but maybe the Angels. WIth his current contract if he would to accept any deal, I would think common logic would be to a team thats climate is a milder and warmer one. And again cash talks.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Jan 19, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Meaning

the climate would be more important than a winning team?

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 19, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not really.

Put yourself in his shoes. Late July. Cubs come to Lee. “Derrick we need you permission to proceed. We have a deal to send you to the Angels who are in a race. Is this something you would consider”. Lee, " for the right price I might think about it".

Or same circumstances only the team is the lowly Braves. Lee “not a chance”.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Jan 19, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

In your scenario, where are the Cubs?

Presuming the Cubs are still in contention – an assumption I think most of us would make – I don’t think Lee would want to leave, do you?

If you want to explore the possibility of trading a Cub with a NTC, you’d probably be better off using someone else in your scenario. It’s been documented several times that DLee is quite happy here in Chicago and would not consider waiving his NTC.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 19, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Really

ballhawk, I pulled all of this out of my a**. I have no agenda or scenario. Other than “what if”. What if the Cubs are having a bad year and will not make the playoffs. Would that change things? I would think it would.

But really I was doing nothing more than pure speculation and baseball banter. Also I am not a big Lee fan. I will say he is a wonderful glove man. But if I had my dithers, I would prefer a true slugger and so-so fielder at FB.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Jan 19, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs