How about Soriano to 2nd; Hoffpauir in LF?
by Clutche on Jan 25, 2009 11:53 AM CST
Email
PrintIt's time Lou gives Micah a chance to play everyday. It brings another lefty to the plate and gets Soriano into the infield where he had a .970 fielding avg., and is less likely to daydream as he does so well in left.
While we're at it let's drop Sori down to the #5 or 6 spot with Soto behind him for protection. Maybe Sori would see fewer sliders and more fastballs.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Umm..
how about..no?
What you’re proposing takes away the lefty of Fontenot and decreases the CI defense and LF defense…at least Soriano has an arm and some hops. hah.
Never gonna happen.
"Why do you always point to the sky when Zambrano starts?" My girlfriend.
"You just wouldn't get it...it's a Cubs thing..." Me.
by cubs2k8isnxtyear on Jan 25, 2009 12:02 PM CST reply actions
Meant
takes away the lefty CI and the potential lefty balance in the lineup..Hoffpauir is lefty. my bad.
"Why do you always point to the sky when Zambrano starts?" My girlfriend.
"You just wouldn't get it...it's a Cubs thing..." Me.
by cubs2k8isnxtyear on Jan 25, 2009 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
Gotta catch it first
So you don’t hold your breathe every time a ball is hit to Soriano?
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Soriano
is one of the best left-fielders in the league.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 25, 2009 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
Thats a bit of a stretch
He has one of the best arms, if not the best arm in left but his fielding is not his strength.. never has been. I just remember that game against the pirates last year when he dropped it w/2outs in the 9th.
that's like taking Chase Utley's range out of the equation when evaluating his defense.
Soriano’s arm is the stronger part of his defense, but it’s part of the whole equation that makes him one of the best LF in the NL.
by philadelphiacub on Jan 26, 2009 8:47 AM CST up reply actions
quite.
Soriano does just fine. He might be overpaid, but so are most ball-players for, you know, playing a game.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 26, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions
A few reasons.
Soriano is a really bad infielder, and hasn’t played in regularly in years.
Hoffpauir is a terrible outfielder, and probably doesn’t deserve to bat every day anyway over Mike Fontenot.
Soriano sees plenty of fastballs in the lead-off spot. That’s why he hits so many home runs.
by HereComesASpecialBoy on Jan 25, 2009 12:02 PM CST reply actions
Hasn't played "it" regularly in years.
“It” being second base, of course.
by HereComesASpecialBoy on Jan 25, 2009 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
rebuttal
no worse than DeRosa and Fontenot last year
Hoffpauir has the same fielding % as Soriano
Soriano’s lifetime OBP of .329 is horrible and all I remember last year was slider after slider resulting in over 100 K’s
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Fielding %
is junk. It only factors in balls that you have the range to get to.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
You didn't
see Fontenot get enough reps at 2B last year to make that statement. Fonte is a better fielder than both of them.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
I'll bet
Fontenot will not be the starting 2nd baseman by May. Miles will be the man.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
You're going to lose a lot
of money on that bet. Fonte had nearly as many doubles last year as DeRosa did, in 1/3 – 1/2 the PA. Fonte can rake. And if Fonte isn’t in the lineup then, its not because of fielding
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
Intriguing idea
How about instead of Hoffpauir to LF we do Dunn to LF if his price really drops…
Soriano 2B
CF Platoon
Lee
Bradley
Rammy
Dunn
Soto
Theriot
or we could move Bradley to Center
and then
Soriano LF
Fontenot 2B
Lee
Bradley
Rammy
Dunn RF
Soto
Theriot
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
No leadoff though
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
YIKES
an OF of Soriano, Dunn and Bradley? That might be the worst defensive OF in MLB then. Bradley does not have the range for CF with those two anchoring the corners. And if you were worried about Bradley being injury prone, then putting him in CF where he will have to run more than either corner OF position is a scary idea.
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
Dunn had about a -70 UZR/150 in right last year
He obviously isn’t THAT bad, but he still sucks.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 25, 2009 9:14 PM CST up reply actions
Doable as well
I like it
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Awful, awful idea.
You want to play a guy who was a bad 2B when he was a regular there, even though he hasn’t played there regularly in almost four years, AND a guy who’s a first baseman as the regular left fielder?
This would make the team defense worse, and the offense worse, too, because Mike Fontenot is an all around better hitter than Hoffpauir.
The rest of the NL would probably love this idea, but I’d hate it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
My objective is
To get Sori out of left and moved down in the lineup. Are there any other options to accomplish this, or do you really think he’s a primo lead off hitter and valuable left fielder?
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
your objectives
One can be reached. Soriano can be moved down in the line-up, even without roster moves. Theriot would be better at leadoff, as likely would be the combo of Miles and Fontenot.
As for getting Soriano out of LF, that isn’t going to happen.
I'll take it
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Where he plays on the field
has no influence on where he hits in the order. Also, did you see Micah in the outfield at the end of the year? I think you would hold your breath just as often with him in LF. He has done nothing to show he should play every day at the ML level, Sure, he mashes AAA pitching but he plays 1B and 1B only.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
Just give him a shot
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Why?
Because he had half a great year at Iowa at age 28?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I agree Al.
He plays one position only. They can try and get him to play others, but thats like saying Cedeno is a CF just because he got some reps out there. This would never work.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
Granted
He only had 73 AB’s last year but batted .342
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
And
a bunch were against a rotten Mets bullpen. Cedeno was hitting almost .350 for the early months a few years back and he hit the tank.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
Um
Micah can be named the starter the same day that Sam Fuld is awarded the starting CF job.
by WittyUserName on Jan 25, 2009 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
I am certain
That at least one Cubs fan I talk to in Mesa this year is going to ask why Fuld isn’t player CF or RF.
answer
that he should start in both, with Micah playing Short Center
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
If you talk to Jessica, that will definitely be true.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Well
I’ll bear that in mind, I don’t want to be insulting or rude. Nothing wrong with being a fan of his, but I think one should recognize the skill set — not a Major League one.
it reminds me of a friend
how still tried to explain how Mitre should be in our rotaton, and another who stil believes Cedeno is our best SS.
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
I guess all of us
are guilty of this at some point, I was on the Pie bandwagon (still am to some degree), but there is a point where I realized — even if he has the potential to be a good hitting CF, it was not going to be with the Cubs. Maybe I’ll grow up someday.
And one will surely ask..............
Why is Soriano still in left and leading off? See you in Mesa
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Where do all the "Bleed Cubbie Blue" aficionados
Hang after the game?
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Not sure about everyone else
But I’m planning on dropping by the old Sluggo’s — assuming its still a Cubs bar. Its called (or going to be called) Diamonds.
+INFINITY
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
I was about to write
that this is the most outrageous thing i’ve ever read and the worst post i’ve ever seen. So thanks for beating me to it.
Worst post with most replies today
HUM, funny how things workout sometimes
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
You forgot to put the "sarcasm" icon in your post.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jan 25, 2009 12:54 PM CST reply actions
So you all agree
That Soriano should stay in left and lead off?
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
If there were better options
than no. But what in the world has Micah done to play everyday? Your post makes it sound likes its the middle of the year and Sori has been struggling. And for what its worth, Soto isn’t that deadly of a hitter where Soriano would see a huge differences in the way he’s pitched. He swings at everything when he is in a slump. Why would he stop swinging with Soto behind him? Also, its no who is behind you that counts. Its who is on base in front of you.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
I think
he does just fine.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 25, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions
Soto
Is a tremendous hitter, especially for a rookie with an injured hand most of the 2nd half
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
The injured hand
isn’t that big of a deal. Soto is not a “tremendous hitter”. He is a damn fine hitter, but reserve tremendous for Pujols and Arod. Again, its not who is behind you, its who is in front, and on base in front of you.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
Soto is tremendous
Puhols is extraordinary
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Have you been drinking
since 7PM yesterday evening? Soto is not a tremendous hitter. There is no denying that.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
Soto is a tremendous hitter
for a catcher. his numbers wouldn’t be as impressive if he were at first base
Dumb......
Like….not Dusty Baker dumb….but Ronnie Woo Woo dumb…
I’m gonna go read a book now to get my intelligence back to where it was before I read this post.
Whether you think you can or whether you think you can't, you're right.
Henry Ford
by BLW Believes Esq. on Jan 25, 2009 1:09 PM CST reply actions
I hear Grapes of Wrath is a good LONG read
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
and all the responses as "The Gripes of Wrath"... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Why?
We won 97 games with Soriano in LF. While he has made some poor plays he has also had tons of outfield assists that save runs.
let me think for a minute......
HELL NO! Soriano is better defensively in LF than he was at 2B (which is really not saying a lot)
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
I just wonder
Where Tony LaRussa, undoubtedly the finest active manager (2,297 wins), would bat and play Sori?
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
You're probably right with the pitcher 8th
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Your nuts
Tony would be batting Ryan Theriot 9th as he fits the mold for his, " I like to bat the pitcher 8th so Albert can have more RBI chances."
He also would probably bat Soriano 2nd who goes along with his “I like to have power in the # 2 hole”
I forgot to add this
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Well if he wants Albert to have more RBI chances, he should bat the pitcher 4th... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
and
Albert 5th
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
7th
to give Zambrano opportunity to drive in runs
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
Defense matters!
I love these posts. Let’s take Dunn a bad LF’er who hasn’t played RF and move him to RF. Let’s take an unproven 1B in Hoffpauir and move him to the OF. Let’s take Soriano a bad second baseman who hasn’t played there in years and play him there.
Players move down the defensive spectrum as they age not up.
How many teams, Atlanta and St. Louis come to mind....
that take chances with unproven players and let them play and develop? The Cubs have the pitching talent to make some overdue changes and take some risks.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
What does that have to do with my points?
Defense matters. Hoffpauir even if you believe can hit will never be acceptable LF’er. Soriano was moved from 2nd because of his problems. Why do you think he’ll all of a sudden get better?
Defense matters. This is not fantasy baseball where you try and get the best hitter at every position.
January
is one slow month.
"They say we live and learn. Often what we learn is what damn fools we have been." ~Thomas Sowell
a few points...
1. Soriano is bad at second base and is far removed from those days.
2. Your essentially trying to replace fontenot with hoffpauir….and fontenot is the better and more proven player.
3. Soriano is going to see sliders wherever he is in the lineup…….and I say leave him in the leadoff spot where he seems to have success.
And lastly, soto is not a tremendous hitter…he may be a tremendous hitting CATCHER, but we have a number of hitters on our own team who are better hitters than soto.
Tremendous as a rookie
And the hitters on our team that are as good or better are veterans.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
In 1996...
… a certain 26-year-old MLB rookie hit 10 HR in 67 at-bats, and finished with a line of .373/.411/.910. That’s even better than Hoffpauir, right?
That’s Shane Spencer. Turned out he wasn’t very good.
But I’ll bet you his major league career is far better than anything Micah Hoffpauir ever does.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Fontenot is a supurb.....
utility infielder who won’t be a regular starter come May.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
how do you conclude
that fontenot is a supurb utility infielder who wont be a starter come may…..but yet hoffpauir is deserving of taking over left field?
I said
Hoffpauir deserves a shot NO more, NO less
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
but by putting hoffpauir in left your giving him a chance and taking away fontenots chance
and I’d say fontenot deserves more of a chance….he’s shown ability over the last couple years, while hoffpauir only had 73 at bats
Actually, no, he doesn't deserve a "shot".
He is 29 years old. If a player is going to be any good, he’s probably played four or five full ML seasons by the time he’s 29.
Hoffpauir is a guy who had a couple of good minor league seasons, and one big day in the majors. Take out that one game and his 2008 ML line is .294 with no homers in 68 at-bats.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I don't understand the Hoffpauir-love myself.
From what I’ve seen, he could, in time, be an adequate player at best. He’s not going to be the salvation of anyone or anything at the Major League level. And time is not on his (or our) side.
I think the Hoffpauir-love can be explained by three things...
1. Many fans can’t get past his jaw-dropping minor league numbers.
2. He had one very memorable performance late last season, which sticks out in the minds of some casual fans.
3. Phonetically, the word “power” is right there in his name. How can you not love a player whose name evokes both David Hasselhoff AND Power!?!?!?
The fact that his contact-rate took a huge dive at the ML level illustrates why you, me, Al, and others are pessimistic about his chances if were to get “a shot”. Micah can paste a fastball but major league pitchers figured out very quickly that he’ll get himself out on quality breaking balls and off-speed pitches. It’s very difficult to hit for a high batting average if you’re striking out every third plate appearance, and Hoffpauir has to hit for a high average to have any value as he won’t take a walk and he’s not going to hit 40 home runs. He’s also a wretched, wretched outfielder so he has to play 1B in the NL and, of course, he’s blocked there in the Cubs organization.
Like most AAA sluggers (see McClain, Scott), Hoffpauir’s an easy guy to root and it’d be fun to see what happens if he gets a shot. He needs to be in a different organization for that to happen though. His best-case-scenario is to wind up on a bad AL team, such as KC or Seattle, that has problems at 1B or DH. That said, it seems more likely that he’ll be playing first base for the Schaumburg Flyers one day rather than holding down a starting spot with a major-league team.
"Some people will look at a glass of water and say it's half-empty, while another guy will look at it and say it's half-full. A Cubs fan looks at the same glass and asks, "When's it gonna spill?" - Mike Royko
by LaddieRenfroe on Jan 25, 2009 8:16 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I'm framing this one!!!
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
mutually exclusive events
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Already been tried...
Yankees had him at 2nd initially. His defense is monstrously bad there.
That's really all you need to know...
as far as the change of fielding positions goes. Fonzi hasn’t been a middle infielder in years, and he was put in left by the Yank-mes specifically because of his shoddy defense at 2nd.
As far as his position in the batting order, fielding position doesn’t matter a damn in that regard.
by northernsails on Jan 25, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
Actually, he didn't move to LF until he went to the Nats.
His first ML game in the outfield was with Washington in 2006.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Oh. Alright...
But my point was still made.
by northernsails on Jan 25, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
IF!!!!
you did move Soriano back to 2B why would you not go with Fukudome in RF, Reed in CF and Bradley in LF long before Micah in LF?
You could make more of an argument for that idea than what started this theread IMO.
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
What the heck
What the heck is this seeming obsession people have with getting Hoffpauir into the lineup?
Barbara V. October 14, 1941 - December 19, 2008. A great lady who was a friend to all and like a second mom to her children's friends (she was my best friend's mom)
Except not as good an outfielder.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
At least
Murton got a shot
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
He deserved one.
Hoffpauir doesn’t.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Not exactly...
He got a chance in 2006 because there was absolutely no one else worth a damn that could play the outfield. Here was the illustrious outfield roster to choose from:
Freddie Bynum
Buck Coats
Jacque Jones
Matt Murton
Phil Nevin
Angel Pagan
Juan Pierre
28 Michael Restovich
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Thank you for making my argument for me.
The Cubs have at least five outfielders on the major league roster better than Hoffpauir will ever be.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Then let's put on of them in left
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
one
oops
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
he's already there.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 26, 2009 9:44 AM CST up reply actions
what exactly is your argument again?
Are you saying Hoffpauir does NOT deserve a chance because the Cubs have at least five outfielders on roster way better than him?
This is probably just semantics but it brings to mind a scene from Unforgiven where Gene Hackman is on the wrong end of Clint’s gun and says “I don’t deserve this”.
Clint’s response – “Deservin’s got nothing to do with it.”
My point is Hoffpauir will NOT get a chance with the Cubs because all the outfield roles are already taken by much better players than him. Whether or not he deserves a shot is a different story…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
That's exactly what I'm saying...
… and I think it’s what you’re saying, too, in a different way.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
No
Hoff is the new Fuld. Fuld made a great catch. Hoffpauir had one big day. That means they are ready for a major league starting position.
Murton is better than both of these two. I can see people arguing for Murton even though I didn’t think he was very good. I don’t understand the Hoffpauir love.
by rlpete on Jan 26, 2009 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
At the risk of being completely unoriginal, let me just say...
…Clutche, what you’ve just said written is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response Fanpost were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room thread is now dumber for having listened to read it. I award you no BCB points, and may God Al have mercy on your soul.
Consistent. Championship. Tradition.
Your critique of the fanpost is both good and original
but the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good….
"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano
That's what being a Cubs fan for 50 years does to you
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
So....
that being said you must think that
Soriano is solid left fielder and lead off man and is worth every penny he’s paid
Hoffpauir should be traded or delegated to the minors
Fontenot is an everyday starting 2nd baseman and deserves it
Soto isn’t a tremendous hitter, especially for a rookie
Who’s insane?
As long as I’m on an idiotic kick……let’s trade Soriano for Peavy straight up.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
I'm not sure how you got all that...
…out of a movie quote but, um, for the record:
1. I think Alfonso Soriano is an average left fielder with a remarkable throwing arm and a tendency to make two or three spectacular mistakes a season that doom him to many, if not most, Cubs fans defensive doghouses.
2. If no better options for a left-handed bat off the bench and backup first baseman present themselves, then that’s where Hoffpauir should get his shot. He is not an everyday major league player and certainly not an outfielder. Moreover, he would be worse in left field than Soriano because he doesn’t have Alfonso’s arm. Incidentally, I was watching a 2006 NLCS game on MLB Network this weekend and saw Jim Edmonds expertly work the count for a walk and am still wondering (perhaps foolishly) whether he’d like to wind down his career as a pinch hitter for the Cubs.
3. Fontenot could be an everyday starting second baseman, but what I think Lou will probably do is platoon Fontenot at second with Aaron Miles. And that’s fine with me.
4. I don’t understand how Geo got into this discussion but, in any case, that’s not how feel about him at all. And if you’re comparing Soto to Hoffpauir, you really need to stop right there.
Again, if there’s any further confusion about my comment, please click on the link provided in that comment.
Consistent. Championship. Tradition.
by daver on Jan 25, 2009 7:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree just a different spin
1. Average at best, but I counted way more than two or three. We are pretty much on the same page here.
2. You certainly make my point in an odd way. How do we know he’s not an everyday player or worse than Soriano if he doesn’t get a legitimate SHOT?
3.You waver here on Fontonot as an everyday player as I do. I just tend to be more emphatic.
4. Didn’t compare Soto to Hoffpauir whatsoever. I just think he is a great hitter and would protect Soriano hitting behind him. I don’t think Sori would see near the sliders that he does leading off.
So we agree more than we disagree, or do we agree to disagree? Either way we both want the same result, a World Champion.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Re: that last sentence, definitely.
And I apologize if my comment came off as overly harsh – it’s just a funny movie quote someone else posted recently and I couldn’t resist.
About Hoffpauir, he’s really not the answer. The bottom line is that his remarkable numbers in the minor leagues were attained too late in his career. If he’d put those up at 23, it would be a different story. And, again, he has no history as an outfielder, so the only position he very arguably deserves a shot at is first base, and the Cubs are covered there.
Consistent. Championship. Tradition.
Critics are overpaid and undereducated
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Hoff 2009 = Ward 2008
The thought of moving Sori to 2nd sounds good from a hitting lineup perspective, but absolutely awful from a defensive perspective. Just ask the Yankees about him at 2nd base. Hoff will be valuable this season if a) bats against righties as a PH b) plays first if Lee gets hurt.
Somehow....
why this became a Hoffpauir/Fontenot obsession is not what I intended. My wish was to somehow get Soriano out of left and down the lineup without sacrificing defense while improving offense.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
but
moving Soriano to 2B is a huge defensive sacrafice
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
I guess you just can't hide a lousy fielder
unless DH in the AL
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Good Lord.
Alfonso Soriano is NOT a lousy fielder. He is one of the best left fielders in the game due to his strong and accurate throwing arm, which saves a surprising amount of runs.
You can completely ignore this if you want. Saying something over and over and over again even if you’re wrong seems to be your modus operandi.
CUBS WIN! CUE THE ORCHESTRA!
by Keith on Jan 25, 2009 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
rec'd
+100
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 25, 2009 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
I think Soriano needs to catch a little break here
this is only his 3rd or 4th year playing outfield. Prior to that he was an infielder. As someone who plays outfield on a regular basis, you just don’t go from being a infielder to a outfielder overnight. At least not a great one. The positions require different skill sets. Infield is more reflexes and reactions. the ball is coming at you so fast that most of the time your simply reacting to it. Outfield though, you have to see the ball, track the ball, judge where it’s going and stuff. I hear all the time people griping about how soriano has lost balls in the outfield. It is VERY easy to misjudge a ball, no matter how many times it’s been hit. Next to hitting a major league pitcher, one of the hardest things to do in baseball is catch a fly ball in the outfield. It’s not a slam dunk like everyone thinks. Soriano will continue to improve his defense in left. It’s his hitting or lack thereof that we as fans should be concerned about.
Hmmm
Not sure if I would rank catching a ball in the outfield next to major league hitting, but your point is well taken. Nice to see your a Lobos fan — if you were an Aggies fan I would have been very dissapointed.
No way could I ever
be an aggies fan. I had to suffer in Las Cruces for 2 years when I was deployed to WSMR in 03-05. Nope, I’m a lobo, attended UNM from 92-95, and actually have the distinction of crossing the duck pond on a 1 rope bridge while I was in ROTC! Not to many people know of that fact! lol
Awesome
Me too graduated in 2005, I now work for the University, and am a loyal season ticket holder — finally I think we are developing a basketball program worth watching. You still live in the state?
I Do
But I’m currently deployed to Kuwait right now. I’ll be back in the states in about 5 weeks. I can’t wait. this has been a long year for me. My little brother was up north in Iraq for most of the year as well. He got hit by a IED but walked away with a concussion. I have SO missed being back in the heights, eating green chile, and watching cubs baseball!
Well
When your back in town maybe we could meet at the Fontier or something, in five weeks I’ll be climbing up the walls waiting to go to Mesa — and always glad to talk to a fellow BCBer. Glad to hear your bro walked away from that.
That'd be great.
I’ll have about 3 weeks off before I have to head back to work. I haven’t eaten at the Frontier in years……We all were glad to see him walk away. the explosion had enough force to lift the left side of a 70 battle tank clear in the air. He was very lucky.
I’d love to get to go see spring training this year. I got to go for the first time last year as my valentine’s/pre-deployment gift. I know my gf would be up for it
We're so close
Its almost criminal not to go, I’m like you, the misses enjoys BB and ST…so its always our sprintime destination.
We'll have to see this year
I need to get settled, spend time with my son, move and a bunch of other stuff. I’d love to go though. Somehow(not quite sure how this happened!) my babe is a Braves fan. Yeah, Braves. I’m working on her though, slowly converting her to the cubs!
nobody
is perfect, and at least she is a baseball fan, so you have a start point to work with.
have a safe trip home, glad your bro is ok all things considered.
"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic
Am I the only one...
that sees Sori constantly daydreaming in left? or Theriot backpedaling to make over the shoulder catches, week after week, of balls that Sori should be camped under? or Sori taking a circuitous route back to the wall only to have the ball drop at his feet or go over his head? or slowly sauntering to the foul line only to have the ball drop in the bullpen? not to mention his trademark “the hop” What’s that?
Great arm, no doubt! But you have to catch the ball first.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
And you think Hoffpauir will be better?
What evidence do you have to back up this claim?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Not necessarily, but I'd like to see him, or ANYONE else of Lou's choosing, get a shot at it.
Hoffpauir was a suggestion to get everyone’s attention, and I think I accomplished that, but no one has come up with a viable alternative.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
There's no need for a viable alternative.
Soriano infuriates us at times, but the bottom line is, he’s a decent outfeilder.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I hope you're right
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
last year didn't prove it?
or the year before?
Give me a break. He’s not a rookie. He’s exactly what we were told he would be. And frankly, he’s pretty damn good at his job.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 26, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
+1
He’s a decent outfielder with a remarkable throwing arm AND, most important of all, Alfonso Soriano is a good major league hitter. His OPS+ has been well above league average for the last three years running.
Consistent. Championship. Tradition.
I didn't get to see much last year....
I didn’t get to see to many games last year because I was deployed over here to Kuwait, so maybe there were times that their defense lapsed, but I still maintain it’s very difficult to judge a fly ball in the outfield. You can have the same guy hit two balls in the outfield, and they’ll track completely different. I’ve been there more then a few times. This isn’t an excuse by any means. By now Soriano should be comfortable with all the angles in Left Field. He’s played more then enough games to become acclimated there. But outfield defense is a lot harder then most people think.
daydreaming???
forget about the hop. The hop means nothing. The hop is utterly irrelevant.
Every player has his strengths and weaknesses. And if Theriot is backpedaling AND making an over-the-shoulder catch, he’s double-jointed.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 26, 2009 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
And, again, putting Hoffpauir in left wouldn't help the defense much either.
Consistent. Championship. Tradition.
And you want to get Soriano out of left
and replace him with a 1st baseman. That is supposed to improve the defense?
There is absolutely zero chance than Hoffpauir will be a better fielder in left than Soriano. Zero.
As someone who would like to see Hoff get the new DWard
Even I can recognize it shouldn’t be at the expense of moving Sori to 2nd.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Good Grief...Micah Hoffpauir has become the new Matt Murton around here
Micah Hoffpauir is not major league material. Not even as a role player given his lack of versatility. Why o’ why is it that every year the loons need to hop on the bandwagon of a career minor leaguer type and ride it into the sun?!?
Our we sleepy or just a poor speller?
or a Sox fan in disguise?
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
It’s time Lou gives Micah a chance to play everyday.
I hope and pray hourly that this is NEVER the case.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
Actually, it'd be more accurate to say...
It’s time Jim gives Micah a chance to play everyday.
by trading him to an AL team (Seattle?) where he can get that shot (1B, DH, LF) and we can find out once and for all if he has what it takes to be a ML regular. I think it’s fair to say a vast majority of folks here, myself included, don’t think he does. But I wouldn’t begrudge him the chance to find out.
But in a twist on one of last year’s slogan, IT’S NOT GONNA HAPPEN here. We don’t have that luxury. If Lou and the powers that be weren’t willing to give Pie an extended opportunity, there’s no way Micah gets a shot. That’s just the cold, hard, reality of it. Whether or not Clutche understands that though, is a whole ’nother story….
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I don't know
How Hoffpauir became the primary focus here. My main objective, for the umpteenth time, is to get Soriano out of left and moved down in the batting order.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
It's been my very strong belief for some time...
…that we’ll never see Alfonso Soriano playing any position other than left field in a Cubs uniform. There’s really nowhere else for him to go. Lou tried him in centerfield in early ‘07 and Alfonso didn’t look particularly comfortable out there – and that was before his leg problems set in.
Before Bradley was signed, there was some discussion ‘round here about moving Soriano to right field to make room for Adam Dunn in left. After all, Alfonso certainly has the arm for right field and, being a former second baseman, he’s familiar with that side of the field. But Soriano’s tentativeness around outfield walls doesn’t bode well for any success in right field, and I’m not sure I want to even imagine the problems he’d have dealing with the afternoon sun at Wrigley.
As far as the whole Soriano-in-the-leadoff-spot dilemma, well, that’s been beaten to death just about everywhere. I honestly don’t have a problem with him batting lead off during the regular season, where there’s 162 games and some 500 odd ABs for his streakiness to even out. It’s in the postseason that Alfonso in the leadoff spot really bothers me, because the pressure is so heightened and – especially in the five-game NLDS – things can go south so quickly. Of course, I also recognize that it would be difficult for Lou to drop him in the order in October after batting him in leadoff all year long, so…
Bottom line: The only thing that will get Soriano out of the leadoff spot is the Cubs acquiring a bona fide, battle-tested leadoff hitter such as Brian Roberts. And until the Cubs do that, I don’t think we’ll see anyone else batting in that spot, so we should probably stop worrying about it.
Consistent. Championship. Tradition.
by daver on Jan 26, 2009 9:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Very, very well said!
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
thankfully
you’re not the GM.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 26, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
If you thought...
…Lou got pissed in early 07 watching Murton and Barrett play defense like they were in little league, he would absolutely loss his shit watching Soriano at 2nd and Micah in left.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I need a Micah Hoffpauir jersey to wear at spring training.....
so all of you that will be there can stone me for having the nerve to suggest he be given a chance to prove himself.
If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.
Dude
There’s already a guy like that…and another one for Sam Fuld, Ronny Cedeno, and I imagine there will still be the guys with the Pie jerseys (not me this year). Just don’t be the guy with all the autographs on the jersey (stitched on for posterity no less).
I thought
Hoff wasn’t the focus of the post?
Soriano is the best leadoff hitter we have, and his position is Left Field, and he’s good at it.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 26, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions
This feels like
January Fools.
If you really do want Soriano to move from LF to 2B and down in the order, that’s fine. If you actually think Hoffpauir would be any sort of improvement over Soriano in left, or is even capable of handling it, that’s fine too. But this really isn’t worth this fat thread, and it just seems like you are taking the piss out of everyone here.
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