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Can Milton Replace Jim Edmonds Production?

I think Cub fans, me included, take for granted what Jim Edmonds gave us last year.  19HRs, 49 RBIs, 369/568 OBP and SLG in a little over half a season.  I like Milton Bradley and think he will be a good addition.  When thinking about his acquisition, however, and analyzing where the team has improved (or not), I find myself thinking "he will add the left-handed pop we were missing last season," completely ignoring Edmonds.  After looking at Edmonds's numbers, I begin to think at best Milton can maintain his end of the status quo outfield production we had with Edmonds.  Not that that is a bad thing.  I'm not sure Edmonds can replicate last year so I would rather have Milton for the coming year if given unlimited money and the choice of one or the other.   

Do you think Milton Bradley can equal Edmonds's production over (hopefully) a longer period?  130 games, 25HR, 365/535 would be a good year for Bradley in my opinion.  Given that, the only likely offensive improvement would be Fukudome, perhaps a more healthy Soriano.

Would you rather have Bradley - Fontenot/Miles, or Edmonds - DeRosa with a few extra coins in the Cubs pocket?   

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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In a word...

yes.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 29, 2009 12:40 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Well, for what it's worth...

…the CHONE projection for Milton Bradley is, in 114 games, .298/.407/.520 (.927 OPS!!!). That’s with 21 home runs, 22 doubles and 1 triple, and 66 RBI.

Ever the optimist, I’m a little more bullish on Bradley’s playing time. I think he’ll play more like 130 to 135 games, but still put up numbers close to those. I’d go much higher on the RBI, though, and look for close to 30 home runs.

So, to answer your question, yes, Bradley is fully capable of replacing and improving upon Jim Edmonds producton. And I’ll take Bradley and Miles/Fontenot combo – it’s the left side of the infield I’m more worried about.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 29, 2009 12:51 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I hope hes worth more than 66 RBI

Though I guess that depends on where he hits

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jan 29, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that seemed awfully low...

…especially given that he was signed to be a middle-of-the-order guy.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 29, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and that projection

is BELOW Edmond’s production offensively

which means the kicker for Bradley vs. Edmonds magical season is going to be games played.

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 29, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's a good point.

On the bright side, Edmonds played in only 85 games for the Cubs last year. At the risk of tempting the Gods, I have to believe Bradley can beat that.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 29, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's not a fair comparison

Edmonds 2008 numbers were put up almost exclusively against right-handers. If he had been more exposed, you’d have seen those numbers drop.

by Wreckard on Jan 29, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

does that matter though?

the production is the production when evaluating the two

if you want to comment on Bradley’s likelihood of topping 250 AB’s, that’s the point to attack because its a very reasonable argument

but how the production came doesn’t matter much, it was there

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 29, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, yes

If you’re comparing Edmonds vs Bradley then it absolutely matters how those at bats came to be. How can you not see this? Seriously? You’re comparing 2 completely different things – essentially taking one player’s splits and comparing them to another player’s full season and saying, “See they’re the same!”.

But even with that huge advantage, Bradley’s OPS+ was still 30 points higher than Edmonds’.

if you want to comment on Bradley’s likelihood of topping 250 AB’s, that’s the point to attack because its a very reasonable argument

Have you actually looked at Bradley’s career numbers? He’s had fewer than 250AB in a season exactly once since 2002.

So, no, it wouldn’t be a very reasonable argument at all actually.

by Wreckard on Jan 29, 2009 4:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

that would be the point

and you just attacked it correctly

but 250 AB’s with a .937 OPS is 250 AB’s with a .937 OPS no matter how they came

if Bradley has say 350 AB’s with a .920 OPS that IS worth more than Edmonds last year

but if he has just 250 AB’s with a .920 OPS (because of injury) then he would not be worth as much as Edmonds

it doesn’t matter HOW the AB’s come it matters HOW MANY are registered

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 29, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Compare the lineup spots

When comparing Bradley’s totals to Edmonds’ splits, don’t we need to consider that Edmonds’ platoon partner was Reed Johnson? So compare Bradley vs. Edmonds’/Johnson’s numbers to see who will produce more given the same number of PA’s. I take Bradley in a landslide even with the likely injury issues.

"Baseball is like Church. Many Attend; Few Understand." - Leo Durocher

by JD McCubbie on Jan 31, 2009 8:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

right...

but that’s assuming a full season worth of AB’s when considering the platoon

if Bradley gives a full season it IS likely he’d outproduce what we had there last year

but if he only gives say 250 AB’s then he’s going to have a tough time out-producing just Edmonds 250 ABs (which was the original question)

if Bradley gets to 300-350 AB’s i think there is little doubt Bradley outperforms Edmonds, the question is can he get there

by DartmouthCubsFan on Feb 1, 2009 12:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think

this the way Lou gets the most out of his players. Fontenout falls under this as well. Lou does a wonderful job of not exposing his players to the wrong environment. And no, I don’t mean he keeps them out of the bars.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Jan 29, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

since when did Chone Figgins do baseball projections?

Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08 (http://www.wearecubsfans.com)

by Fuk-U-Meter on Jan 29, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's fast on the basepaths...

…but faster with a calculator.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 29, 2009 2:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely.

Bradley has many other things gong for him too. Change of scenery which seemed to help him in TX. The desire to prove naysayers wrong about his health. And the already strong output he has in his track record.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Jan 29, 2009 12:53 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps Bradley should get a "change of scenery" every year...

since it works so well for him.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 29, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

essentially ...

he has had a change of scenery every year.

by elgato on Jan 29, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley

Flat said he wants to be here, and he wants to win. Sure all say that, but he sounded a little more legit than some others have. Anyone willingto pass up other oprions while waiting a month or two for the GM to clear the way to sign him, deserves all our respect and backing until proven otherwise.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 29, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The question is

whether Bradley 2009 will be better than Edmonds 2009. I think the Cubs caught some good luck with Edmonds last season. I doubt he would match that again for a complete 2009 season.

by rlpete on Jan 29, 2009 1:06 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

its not

if you’re trying to evaluate whether we’ll IMPROVE over last years team

it IS if you’re trying to evaluate who was the right choice to play this season

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 29, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

beat me to it

There’s no way Edmonds (who is knocking on 40) would have repeated his 2008 numbers.

by elgato on Jan 29, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Has edmonds signed anywhere?

I’d still rather have him than gathright

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 29, 2009 1:08 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

You'd rather have him than Gathright for what

As a pinch runner / late-inning defensive replacement? Because Gathright will be orders of magnitude better at both of those things.

by Wreckard on Jan 29, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No, Edmonds remains unsigned.

But Edmonds and Gathright really aren’t comparable. Edmonds would presumably be re-signed as half of a centerfield platoon (though I’m wondering whether he’d accept as a role as a lefty bat off the bench). Joey Gathright is a fifth outfielder/pinch runner.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 29, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gathright is Pie sans the BLou hatred.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 29, 2009 1:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty much.

And, apparently, sans the Lou P. hatred as well. Although I guess we’ll see what we see.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 29, 2009 1:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Also sans the ability to hit and the potential

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Jan 29, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

sans power

Pie had a lot more pop than Gathright even in their major league careers

Pie’s career EXBH Rate = 6.9%
Gathright’s = 3.3%

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 29, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

but

he can out jump Pie

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 29, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Worse than that...

Gathright is Pie minus the the hatred minus ANY threat of power and minus any potential to improve.

For the purposes of this team, assuming he’s only a defensive replacement and pinch runner, that’s fine. In terms of long-term potential, he’s clearly a downgrade from Pie.

by SouthernCub on Jan 29, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

what do you expect

from a guy who was #25 on the ROYALS roster last season

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 29, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's exactly what you will get.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 29, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As I said Before

Edmonds 2008 = Gary Gaetti 1998

Anyone who remembers Gaetti 1999 will tell you that he was a one and done with us. Edmonds is the same.

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 29, 2009 1:11 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

There's no guarantee that would be true.

That said, Bradley is definitely better than Edmonds for 2009.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 29, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I do agree

that it is not a guarantee, but which is more likely, Edmonds improves on last season, or declines from last seasons numbers?

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 29, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There's a difference...

between declining from last season’s numbers (which were amazing) and falling off the face of the earth like Gaetti.

I don’t think anyone reasonably expects Edmonds to reproduce his .900+ OPS last year. But he may still be a functional platoon player, which was not the case with Gaetti.

by SouthernCub on Jan 29, 2009 2:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Or a lefty bat off the bench...

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 29, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hell yes

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Jan 29, 2009 1:14 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

If healthy, absolutely, yes.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 29, 2009 1:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Ah, the "if" word...

Yes, if Bradley stays health for 120+ games, it’s very possible that he at least approaches the production Edmonds gave us last year. I’m not sure he’d top it (Edmonds DID hit nearly 20 HR and OPSed over .930, something Bradley hasn’t done as an everyday position player before), but he could certainly be a .900+ OPS guy.

But the guy still needs to prove he can actually play 120+ games in the field.

by SouthernCub on Jan 29, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's already proven that!

Oh wait, you meant all in one season.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 29, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Funny, but he's another year removed from serious knee surgery,

which I understood was the reason they DH’d him much of the year.

If he’s as focused as he said on his offseason work, he should be much better this year.

by N Oakley on Jan 29, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure why you're referencing recovery from last year...

as though that’s the only injury concern with Bradley. In his entire career he’s played 100+ games in the field once.

Sure, he’s probably recovered from the ACL injury that limited him last year. But everything in his career history suggests he’s going to break down again this year, likely for significant time.

This guy was brittle when he was young and spry. He’s in his 30s now, and players usually don’t get healthier with age.

by SouthernCub on Jan 31, 2009 7:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

good question

and one that i think gets overlooked

i don’t think we’ll be as good in the regular season next year as we were this past year. The monstrous seasons we had from role players (Edmonds, Fontenot, Dempster, etc) are likely unrepeatable

now, the good news is the rest of the division seemingly got worse as well and well… the regular season wasn’t really our problem anyway

so hopefully we’re still good enough to win the division and get hot at the right time

but in my opinion we’ve taken a step back from last year and this is the type of question that i think highlights how tough it will be to repeat how dominant we were in the regular season last year

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 29, 2009 1:24 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Except that none of the division competitors seems to have improved, either.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 29, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

never been worried about the division.

It’s the NLDS and NLCS I’d like to put behind us…

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Jan 29, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1 !!!

…and one more ‘series’ after that if I can be that greedy.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 29, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+101

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 29, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i said that

“now, the good news is the rest of the division seemingly got worse as well”

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 29, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry... missed that line in your post.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 29, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's a much better team this year

We’ve added Bradley, get a full season of Harden, crafted a much deeper bullpen and a much better bench, cut Fukudome’s role down to a platoon player, and gotten rid of Jason Marquis.

Even with some regression it’s still a better team.

by Wreckard on Jan 29, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

full season of Harden?

that’s a bold assumption

let’s do it this way, how about position by position do you think we’ll get better production or worse production this year:

C – .284/.353/.482
1B- .296/.365/.480
2B- .300/.378/.458
3B- .283/.372/.519
SS- .303/.379/.364
LF- .282/.348/.508
CF- .290/.374/.484
RF- .250/.350/.381

those are some lofty numbers to BEAT from next year offensively, i’d say it’s pretty unlikely in a number of those spots to BEAT what we got last year

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?team=CHC&year=2008

how about the starting pitching:

  1. 206 2/3 IP, 2.96 ERA,
  2. 204 2/3 IP, 4.09 ERA
  3. 188 2/3 IP, 3.91 ERA
  4. 167 IP, 4.53 ERA
  5. 129 2/3 IP, 2.98 ERA (Harden + Gallagher)

combined:

Starting Pitching: 955 IP, 3.75 ERA
Relief Pitching: 495 2/3 IP, 4.10 ERA

Those are some lofty numbers to IMPROVE upon

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 29, 2009 2:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

YES WE CAN!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 29, 2009 2:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 29, 2009 2:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The good news is that we don't HAVE to improve upon them...

We just have to win our division (which we did handily last year and should have an easier time doing this year thanks to other teams getting worse). Then, in the playoffs, we just have to have better success.

Remember – the regular season numbers look nothing like what we did in the postseason. We had lots of talented players who didn’t come close to producing the way they did in the regular season.

by SouthernCub on Jan 29, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

totally agree

and that’s what i posted earlier

the poster above suggested it was a much better team this year, which is what i was commenting against

i don’t think we have a better team this year than last year but that doesn’t mean a worse team won’t have more success in the postseason

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 29, 2009 2:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...

I don’t think it’s reasonable to say that this team should be expected to outproduce last year’s team’s production. And if certain things play out (Piniella goes with Miles over Fontenot, regression from Dempster and Theriot, etc), this team could be much less productive than last year’s team.

But, I think we’re still the favorite to win the division, and if we get there I think we have a very reasonable shot to make the World Series.

by SouthernCub on Jan 29, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tenfold!!!!!!!

If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.

by Clutche on Jan 29, 2009 1:51 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

So Bradley is going to hit 190 HR this year?

If so, that’s got to be some kind of record.

by SouthernCub on Jan 29, 2009 3:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and drive in

179 runs…..which will baffle baseball stats gurus for a lifetime

"I like coconuts, you can break them open and they smell like ladies lying in the sun" Widespread Panic

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 29, 2009 3:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

On steroids with a corked bat, maybe

If you had to choose just one characteristic that would get you through life, choose a sense of humor.

by Clutche on Jan 29, 2009 8:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno, just ask him!

Erm, well if we are going to call Milton Bradley nicknames, mine is Fischer Price: yes, you heard it here first..

by Chanman25 on Jan 29, 2009 9:22 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

what Dome does

Will be a big deciding factor in how we set the lineup. We know what most of our hitters can do or are capable of but Dome.

1)Can he hit for descent power consistently and split 2 power hitting righties?
2)Will he be a high obp guy that can hit in the #2 spot?
3)Will he give us just what he gave us at the end of the year and be a #8 hitter?
4)Will he even be good enough to be in the lineup?
5)Can he prove to hit enough not be a platoon player and play everyday?

I don’t know what Lou has planned but he would seemingly IMO split the lefties and righties up someway. how he does it is anyone’s guess.

I guess all of this is still premature with offseason moves still being bandied about but what kinda hitter Dome and his lefthanded bat turn out to be seems to change a whole lot of things.

Pure speculation as of right now if Sori stays in the leadoff spot:

Sori
Fontenot
Lee
Bradley
Ramirez
Dome
Soto
Theriot

I dont care who the new owner is as long as he/she/them come equipped with a Jake Peavy and a Joe Beimel!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 29, 2009 9:58 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

My hope is for No. 2.

And I agree that that’s the lineup we’ll likely see, though Soto may bat ahead of Dome.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 30, 2009 9:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

personally

i’d like to see Lee hit #2 and have Bradley and Ramirez hit 3 and 4 with Soto 5

i hope Fukudome produces like a good #2 hitter, but i hope he’s hitting 6 or 7 and he and theriot at the bottom of the order are performing as table setters for the top of the lineup

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 30, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hm, yeah, I like that.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 30, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

something like

1. Soriano
2. Lee
3. Bradley
4. Ramirez
5. Soto
6. Fontenot
7. Fukudome
8. Theriot

- this would get the best hitters in your lineup more AB’s in general, which is my biggest issue with any lineup suggestion with Ramirez hitting 5… or Soto hitting 7

- this would provide the R-L-R in the middle of the lineup the brass wants
- this would keep Soriano in the leadoff spot which is likely to happen
-this would keep the OBP guys in front of the power guys at both ends of the lineup, at the top Lee and Bradley would be ahead of Aramis and Soto, while Fukudome and Theriot would be ahead of Soriano (with the pitcher in between of course…)

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 30, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice.

Forward to lpiniella at cubs.com.

We are a fever ... we are a fever ... we ain't born typical.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 30, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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