Wouldn't need Bradley if Fukudome had played...
If Kosuke, our $48million acquisition of a year ago, would have played all season like he did in the first half last year the Cubs wouldn't have needed the potentialy volatile and injury prone Bradley. Therefore, a deal for Peavey would have already been made. Soriano in LF, Johnon/Pie in CF, Kosuke in RF.
I am leary, like many of you, of the Bradley signing. The numbers look great, but the fact that he has made over 400 plate appearances in a season only once are scary. The fact his best year came while playing in Texas with Josh Hamilton batting around him in the order. What did Hendry Just do???
To get better this team has GOT to start developing some position players that can come up and start. I know we have Geo and Theriot from our system. But every year we rely on free agency and trades to fill our holes. Granted you will need to do that from time to time, but the likelihood of signing a bust like Kosuke, Jacque Jones, Jeromy Burnitz, Todd Hundley, Danny Jackson is greater than getting an all star.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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"If ifs' and buts were candy and nuts...
" um, how does the rest of that go?
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08 (http://www.wearecubsfans.com)
by Fuk-U-Meter on Jan 6, 2009 9:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
We'd all have a merry christmas.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 6, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If we had some bacon, we coiuld have bacon and eggs...
…if we had some eggs.
by MN exile on Jan 6, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink
"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano
by JohnM on Jan 6, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bail me out and I'll start lending again
Maybe
by dr stabbingworth on Jan 6, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Zing!
Bravo!
Reed Ballgame - best CF in the MLB
by californiachicagoan on Jan 7, 2009 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley is a Hendry guy...
He’s one of those guys Hendry looked at during every offseason, and inquired about at every trade deadline. Jim was going to find some excuse to give him some millions and three years. Hendry guys get hunted for as long as it takes, no matter what age or condition.
I just hope Peavy becomes the next Hendry guy…..
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Jan 6, 2009 9:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
He's not a Dusty guy...
I was listening to The Score this morning, and apparently Dusty sat with him a few years back to get a feel for him and walked away from the meeting basically saying he couldn’t work with or manage this guy.
I know Dusty and Lou and completely different, but I always thought Dusty was a “players manager”, interesting to hear that Dusty was turned off by him.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jan 6, 2009 9:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if Dusty thinks he's wrong for the team....
…then sign him up. In fact, if Hendry were to adopt a Constanza-esque policy of doing exactly the opposite of what Dusty would have done, I’d be all in favor of that, too.
When in doubt, just think – what would Dusty not do?
Still, I wish I could have been a fly on the wall at that luncheon. What could Milton possibly have done during lunch at some restaurant to scare Dusty off so much?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jan 6, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Does that make Lou Bizzaro-Dusty?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 6, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
HIM AM GOOD MANAGER!
Him not like am Patterson.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 6, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well said, and I totally agree.
Hey Lou, we're long overdue.
by deadcatbounce on Jan 6, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that he comes without Dusty approval is the perfect cherry on top of this signing for me
Now I know he will be a real good player.
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
by nji232 on Jan 6, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dusty as "players manager" was overrated by far.
He got that reputation because Barry Bonds was supposedly so hard to manage.
But Dusty came here to manage Sammy Sosa and Dusty couldn’t do it.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 7, 2009 8:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bruce Levine reports that...
… the third year of the deal is NOT guaranteed; it’s a vesting option dependent on playing time in the first two years.
That works for me — lowers the Cubs’ financial outlay if Bradley gets hurt again; if he doesn’t and produces, he gets paid. That’s the way contracts ought to be.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 9:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
That's good to hear
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jan 6, 2009 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
AL, I thought this would be the case
automatic vesting option or player option based on game appearances of both years. Bet it is 120 games.
Still does not remove the bulge in 2010.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Jan 6, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll bet it's plate appearances, not games.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Then I like the signing a lot
Seems like the Cubs have protected themselves on this one against injury and any outbursts.
Now, I hope that option does vest, because it would mean Milton’s being productive.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Jan 6, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like Hendry is starting to wise up.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 6, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If the contract is backloaded
then this signing just got a whole lot better.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Jan 6, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Show Colletti how it's done
This is like the Andruw Jones deal except Bradley doesn’t suck.
by dr stabbingworth on Jan 6, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
But look at it this way, let’s say Fukudome adjusts and returns to his pre-ASB form? Then we’ll have a monster lefty in CF and in RF, both with good OBP and some power. I’m not ready to write Fukudome off just yet.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jan 6, 2009 9:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not ready to write him off, either.
But seriously, though, I’m almost ready to write him off.
He wasn’t just slumping in the last 3-4 months of 2008 – he was hilariously bad. He looked like an AL pitcher hitting for the first time in a 1980’s all-star game for like 200 straight at-bats.
As Kosuke showed last year, you only get to face a pitcher for the first time once. And once the book was written on him, he was unable to make even the most minor of adjustments.
I certainly hope that he shows something in the first half of 2009, or I have a feeling that the Cubs management will write him off, too.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jan 6, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
But I also think CBB has a point, b/c I’m not ready to write him off either. I am hopefull (cautiously) that he is working hard this offseason and will into ST to work out what is ailing him. I wouldn’t say his inability to make even minor adjustments is indicative of his future potential. He’s in a new league — a league that has shown can adapt quickly to his approach…now that he is aware of what he’s dealing with maybe he can find his way. Aquiring Bradley at least saves us the diaster that would result if he looks the same with, as some have stated, has the potential to be a very potent offensive outfield.
by StevenABQ on Jan 6, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish
Dragonfanatic was still around. There might be news in Japan we haven’t heard about.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 6, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was thining about him yesterday as I was watching Mr. Baseball
Tom Seleck goes to Japan to play for the Dragons
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on Jan 6, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha.
I watched that yesterday too. In HD no less. And it was fantastic.
God Bless Tom Selleck.
(Actually, there was a guy in that movie who had the exact same swing as Kosuke; enough that I looked for his name in the credits just to be sure.)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jan 6, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dome's come back.
First off, first time matchups are supposed to favor the pitcher not the hitter. I believe the knock on Japanese players is that they take a while to get to the league, especially all the travel and the longer season. Dome clearly broke down some in July, and really crashed in August and September. In addition his home-road split was ridiculous.
HOME .292 .397 .428 .825
ROAD .225 .322 .333 .655
I think Dome bounces back this year. The only question is how long he will be able to last this year. Will he be good all year? Can he at least be good thru August?
Reed Ballgame - best CF in the MLB
by californiachicagoan on Jan 7, 2009 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe, maybe not...
If Fukudome had produced the power some had hoped for, we’d still need to address the situation in CF. It’s POSSIBLE that we’d have experimented longer with Pie if Fukudome had been the power bat. But there’s no guarantee that we’d have waited for Pie to develop or that Pie would have succeeded anyway.
I agree though that the Cubs need to do a better job of producing in-house position players. But there’s not much that can be done about past failures in that regard. We can’t snap our fingers and make a productive farm system. It is what it is for the foreseeable future.
by SouthernCub on Jan 6, 2009 9:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Now that Bradley is that power corner hitter
Kosuke can do what he does best: sharp line drives and walks. Maybe there will be less pressure trying to be someone he isn’t.
I also think he just needed a new plate approach and will bounce back next year.
by dr stabbingworth on Jan 6, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You've hit the distinction -
if Kosuke could have been a power hitter, then Lou’s appetite would have been sated.
But Kosuke was never going to be the kind of power hitter Lou wanted from the left side. So, once Kosuke was signed, we were bound to get another power hitter. Lou had that figured out 4 days into the season.
The only thing that would have “saved” us from getting MB was if we had traded for Raul Ibanez instead of getting Kosuke. And then we’d be stuck with Ibanez.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 7, 2009 9:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a little mystified...
…why the Cubs would have ever thought Fukudome was going to be a Matsui-like power hitter. I know he had decent power numbers in Japan but, given the way Japanese players’ numbers typically change when coming to MLB, it seemed pretty clear from the get-go that Dome was going to be more like a JD Drew-type (doubles/high OBP/good defense).
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2009 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Hendry was hoping for Drew/Abreu
and Lou was hoping for even more power than that – and they got a lot less power than they hoped for.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 7, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But even that...
… would have been better than what we got.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 7, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know it will be a nice problem
but a few of us at BCB are thinking Fuk will have a good season and be consistent throughout. What happens then? There’s always CF but what if all four are playing well and another what if…..Reed Johnson presses the .300 mark? We could have a glut of outfielders. Nice problem but one to consider.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Jan 6, 2009 10:02 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
That's not really a concern...
If Fukudome and Johnson are solid, then Piniella will just rest Bradley more frequently.
by SouthernCub on Jan 6, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rest them all!
Rotate people in and out regularly – everybody stays fresher with a day off now and then.
There are worse problems we can have, yes?
by MN exile on Jan 6, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to be pessimistic
but I think it is absolutely necessary to have all of these extra outfielders due to both Bradley and Soriano’s history of DL stints
by JJDiesel21 on Jan 6, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree...
DeRosa can give Bradley some rest in RF… oh wait….nm.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jan 6, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fukudome is being written off far too quickly.
Clearly his 2008 season was split down the middle – a hot start followed by a late season collapse. At the moment I don’t think anybody has a good idea of what to expect from him next year, but here are a few points to consider:
He hit well at Wrigley – 292/397/428
He was adjusting to a longer season (part of the reason for the drop-off?)
His BABIP fell off a cliff in the 2nd half. (.217 in August and .194 in Sept/Oct – it had been over .300 each month before that)
He led the team in walks (81)
I think he’ll start the season in good shape, and with a better idea of what a full season in MLB requires. I don’t expect all-star performance from him, but a steady average &obp without much pop seems pretty likely to me.
by MadHatterBlues on Jan 6, 2009 10:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
How much time do you think he'll get?
If Fukudome doesn’t hit in April and May of 2009 like he did in April and May of 2008, I have a feeling that he’ll be banished to the darkest corner of Lou’s doghouse, and we’ll never see him again.
And while his full-season OBP and walks were nice, they were just as horrific in the second half. Starting in July, his monthly OBP was .306, .293, .288.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jan 6, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Fukudome hits above .260 I would be shocked
I just don’t think he can handle major league pitching now that they have adjusted to him.
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
by nji232 on Jan 6, 2009 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He will adjust to them...
If they keep throwing him junk that he was swinging at towards the end of the year, I believe he will adjust and become a on-base machine once again.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jan 6, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He had 3 months to adjust, and wasn't able to do so.
At some point, you have to think that there’s a rather serious problem.
Maybe it was rookie jitters, or whatever. But that wasn’t a minor failure. That was a systemic inability to control the strike zone, and that’s why his OBP was below .300 for August and September, and just barely above .300 in July.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jan 7, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was a combination of...
…rookie jitters, fatigue and bad luck. I think he’ll be better in ‘09, though I’m not sure just how much better.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Doubt it was jitters...
I mean, he hit a HR in the first game he played. Jitters would have suggested early season struggles. I might buy fatigue, though I’m not sure. I’d say it’s a combination of failure to make adjustments and maybe fatigue.
I do think he’ll be better. He has a full offseason to work on things. I don’t think he’ll be great (.380ish OBP, .780-.800 OPS), but pretty solid.
by SouthernCub on Jan 7, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, maybe the rookie jitters thing doesn't hold up.
Or maybe he had them in reverse – getting more and more nervous as the long MLB season dragged on and he realized exactly what he’d gotten himself into.
Oh, and about my mention of bad luck – I’d direct everyone to this Fangraphs article, which makes the argument that Kosuke was the victim of some pretty awful misfortune later in the season. Of course, by the same token, maybe he was getting inordinately lucky earlier in the season.
In any case, let’s hope his (good) luck is a little more consistent in ’09 and he can indeed make the adjustments he needs to.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That fangraphs article...
doesn’t take into account that Fukudome was hitting weak grounders. BABIP just considers average on balls put in play, but it does not consider the force with which the balls were being hit.
Fukudome’s stats all seem to suggest that he was struggling to make solid contact and identify good pitches. His BB rate went down, his K rate went up, and his BABIP went down. Those suggest to me that Fukudome stopped being able to identify “his” pitches, and was swinging and missing more. If he’s swinging and missing more, it seems logical to assume that he was swinging and making weak contact more. That would explain the drop in BABIP.
Now, he may ALSO have been getting unlucky, but BABIP doesn’t tell us that with any certainty.
by SouthernCub on Jan 8, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He'll hit above .260
Reed Ballgame - best CF in the MLB
by californiachicagoan on Jan 7, 2009 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And if Pie
hadn’t been such a flaming bag of dog crap bust, he’d have locked up the CF job long ago.
Or better yet, if Corey Patterson hadn’t been as worthless as a pair of hair clippers in the Blagojevich household, he’d have held it down for the last five years.
What ifs are fun, but counterproductive.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Jan 6, 2009 10:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Pie has never "busted" like Fukudome did.
With Pie, we’re looking at 80-odd at-bats of overall poor production, coupled with absolutely destroying AAA ball for months at a time.
With Fukudome, his most recent several hundred at-bats were substantially worse than anything Pie has ever done. And Fukudome is 8 years older, and making 12-odd million more per year.
And in fact, Pie’s September (.300 / .391 / .450 in 13 games) was cause for some optimism – especially as it followed his Felix Pie Destroyer of Worlds finish at AAA, while Fukudome’s August and September were easily the worst of all regular MLB players during that time.
To say that I’m higher on Felix Pie than Kosuke Fukudome is a great understatement. One is a 24-year-old who has adjusted to and dominated every level he’s seen, but who has less than 150 total at-bats in the majors. The other is an 32-year-old enigma who flopped on a historic level in his one turn around the league, including augering in with a 200+ AB streak that was among the worst I’ve ever seen from a Cub.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jan 6, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's had a bit more than 150 MLB at-bats...
but they have been scattered so as to not allow for continuity or comfortability.
I think Fukudome will bounce back, but I think Pie will become a quite capable major leaguer – it’ll just happen somewhere else.
by SouthernCub on Jan 6, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Lou just had some patience and saw the bigger picture,
maybe Pie would have gotten a shot. The Cubs won the division by seven and a half games, and giving Pie three or four starts a week in left and center field in the second half of the season would not only help this team actually see what they have in their most toolsy prospect, but it wouldn’t have cost them the division. Sure, it’s easier to say that now, but even at the time it shouldn’t have been a tough call to make. I don’t think the Cubs scouting department is all that bad, rather it’s the way that the franchise has been bringing up the players. Pure speculation, but if they were a bit smarter in how they advanced their players we might not have to wait until the offseason to see who will be filling vacant spots on next year’s squad/
by dakoose on Jan 6, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to say...
because we don’t know what Pie would have done with more time. And by giving up on Pie, the Cubs got an incredibly resurgent year from Edmonds, which may have gone a long way toward keeping the gap spread. If Pie had continued to struggle throughout the year, maybe the gap disappears.
And as you said, it wasn’t a given that the Cubs would win the division handily in the first place. I understand why they did what they did, even though I think Pie will turn out to be a good MLBer. Piniella’s a very good manager, but patience is one of his few weaknesses. And “long-term” isn’t his mindset, as he’s only got a few years left as a manager. He just wasn’t willing to roll the dice on a guy who has yet to prove anything and risk losing the division with an unproven player.
by SouthernCub on Jan 6, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When the Brewers tanked, it was a given
Pie could have played every day for the last two weeks. At that point, Edmonds was slumping anyway.
What’s going to be infuriating is when they trade him for peanuts to a team like Baltimore and he puts up better numbers than Kosuke, RJ, or Gathright.
by dr stabbingworth on Jan 6, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But by that point...
Edmonds was productive and Pie was in the minors. There wasn’t room for Pie to get the shot.
I agree with you though.
by SouthernCub on Jan 6, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lou had a "big picture" in his mind; it's just not the big picture long-term Cub fans want in mind.
Lou doesn’t much care what happens to the Cubs after he leaves the franchise. He’s here to win a WS and retire a hero. That’s what, indeed, he was hired to do.
Lou looked at the ’08 Cubs and decided that they needed a LH power hitter and that Mike Fontenot, Felix Pie, and Kosuke Fukudome were all going to be unable to fill that role. I believe the benching of Pie had more to do with forcing Hendry to get a power hitter ( I think Lou wanted Griffey and we got lucky in getting Edmonds instead) than it had to do with Felix.
At this point, with Bradley in the fold, it would be very nice if we could trade Fukudome instead of Pie. How much of Dome’s contract would you guys eat to keep Pie instead of Dome?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 7, 2009 9:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Almost all of it.
May as well pay $12M/year for Felix Pie, with 11M and change going to Dome’s new home, than pay $12M/year to watch Dome spin around and look confused.
In 5 years, Pie may or may not be a good player. Dome will almost certainly be approaching retirement, or long out of the league.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jan 7, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1000....well said.
…The mishandling of Pie is an embarrassing chapter in Jimbo’s tenure…and he has screwed this up in every way possible from the get go.
New sig currently under construction
by JB 23 on Jan 6, 2009 6:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't blame Jim Hendry
Lou wrote him off without giving him a fair shot.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Jan 6, 2009 7:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True, but I would suspect Jim could have prevented that from happening.....
..by not giving him Edmonds and making Lou play Pie.
Remember too, this is an organization that didnt teach Pie how to bunt for hits when he was the fastest guy on the diamond. Hendry was in love with the tools, primarly the potential for power.
A few more bunt hits could have led to a few more steals and then maybe he gets a few more AB’s, more confidence etc etc….
New sig currently under construction
by JB 23 on Jan 6, 2009 9:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You would have gotten 162 games of Reed Johnson
(or until he dropped dead) if Jim hadn’t signed Edmonds.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Jan 6, 2009 11:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bunts would not have kept Pie on the diamond.
Lou wanted power.
Hendry decided not to force Lou’s hand and the Edmonds move worked out, so it’s hard to second-guess that.
I think that had Brian Roberts come over, then Pie might have gotten a longer chance, but had Roberts come over, Fontenot would not have gotten a chance, so it’s hard to second-guess that.
What this really goes back to is Andy McPhail’s influence. Had the Cubs spent big on Carlos Beltran instead of Alfonso Soriano, that’s the move that would have given us better balance and flexibility.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 7, 2009 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's the one that really hurts.
Primarily because everyone in Chicago was screaming for the Cubs to sign Beltran, to the point that Hendry actually had to talk about why he wasn’t going to do it.
I don’t mind the way Pie was handled last year, either. He was a 23-year-old with a great big looping swing with some massive holes…. He didn’t get off to a good start. He went to the minors and shortened up his swing and struggled horribly…. and then he stopped struggling and starting going 3-4 every day with 2 runs, 2 RBI and an extra base hit. And then they brought him back up in September and put him on the playoff roster.
There are a number of reasons that the Cubs should keep Felix Pie. Obviously, there’s his potential for stardom, but even right now, he adds value to the team with his speed and defense. (He makes Gathright completely redundant.) Secondly, he plays with emotion and fire — something that this team sorely lacked at times last year. Finally, by all accounts, he’s the consummate team player – he really loves winning, regardless of whether he had anything to do with it.
Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results – but there’s reason to believe that Felix Pie is going to be spraying line drives all over someone’s ballpark in the next few years. And since the Cubs have him on a cost-controlled basis for the next 5 years, that ballpark may as well be Wrigley.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jan 7, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
rec-a-dec-dec.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or maybe...
…Pie’s ability was not assessed properly before he got to the bigs. I would also add they did this guy no favors by treating him like he was going to be a power hitter, and not teaching him to put the ball in play first and worry about power later. It also would have been nice if a young guy with his speed could use the bunt as a weapon, but what the hell, let em hack away.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jan 7, 2009 2:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is the greatest analogy....
ever.
by Cub In NC on Jan 7, 2009 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
...y'all realize that the left-handed half of the platoon...
…gets the lion’s share of the playing time, right? It’s not like Fukudome is going away, he’s moved over to center field.
by cwyers on Jan 6, 2009 11:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Exactly...
that fact, along with Bradley’s likely health woes, mean Fukudome probably get 130+ starts.
by SouthernCub on Jan 6, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At least.
Presuming Fukudome DOES come back, and I think he will, he’ll get his 500 AB.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Presuming he comes back? .....Are you suggesting a potential trade or "retirement"?
New sig currently under construction
by JB 23 on Jan 6, 2009 6:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
funny, I didnt see the comment in that context the first time I read it, but now I do....
..thanks for pointing that out.
New sig currently under construction
by JB 23 on Jan 6, 2009 8:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno - Al thought before that Dome might not come back
and I think there’s still a glimmer of a chance of that happening.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 7, 2009 9:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, really?
Barring a bizarre gardening accident, I can’t envision Kosuke not on the 25-man roster on Opening Day.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2009 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's likely
but it is possible.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 7, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At this point, I think he's been established...
… as the platoon CF, getting most of the AB. Now, if he fails… that’s another story.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 7, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the question -
if Jim Hendry was given an offer, where another GM was willing to take 75% of Dome’s contract (and give little to nothing back in trade), would Hendry be willing to take that offer and make Pie the platoon CF?
I think, yes.
And I think there is a slim chance someone makes that offer late in the off-season.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 7, 2009 5:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's possible.
More likely, someone makes an offer for Pie after he has his typical great spring training.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 7, 2009 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
Pie is younger and MUCH cheaper. I’d imagine a team would be much more interesting in asking for Pie and saving the money on a low-risk trade than paying a substantial amount of salary gambling that Fukudome bounces back.
by SouthernCub on Jan 8, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That depends on Fukudome.
Lou is not going to keep trotting Fukudome out against RH pitching if he’s putting up a .150/.280/.300 line in May. Reed can handle some of that, and Pie can handle the rest.
Dome would be traded to somewhere like Seattle, along with a giant novelty check to cover the year and a half left on his deal.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jan 7, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Fukudome
will rebound this season.
by sue369 on Jan 6, 2009 11:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
That would certainly make for an interesting problem. If Fukudome is productive, do
you really want to sit him agaist LH pitching? The way he can get on base, I would want him in there. Reed is a nice player to have agaist lefties, but would you start him over good-Fuku? Just asking……
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 6, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on Fukudome's lefty/righty splits...
if he bounces back and is productive against either type of pitcher, I’d say Fukudome should play everyday. If he’s less productive against LHP, I’d say the platoon makes sense.
by SouthernCub on Jan 6, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 6, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would keep starting RJ against lefties...
…to mitigate Fukudome’s endurance issues, which I think were a big part of his post-June dropoff. Plus, it’s important to keep RJ sharp, because he does hit lefties well and can make other good things happen on the field (defensive plays, DP breakups, etc.).
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 6, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
um...wrong sport sue.
but I hear Soriano does have a good outside jump shot.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can he play for the Bulls...
They could use some rebounding.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Jan 6, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As far as Bradley,
being protected by Hamilton. Last time I checked the Cubs had a pretty Solid Middle Part (Lee, Soto, Ramirez, Soriano (if he moved) of the order as well. I think we can expect him to have similar production in our lineup IF he stays healthy.
I
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
by TheRiot Police on Jan 6, 2009 12:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Since we have DHL now...
I’d be all up in this lineup…
Soriano
Fukudome/Johnson
Bradley
Ramirez
Lee
Soto
Fontenot
Theriot
Pitcher
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind...
seeing Lee in the 2 hole until Fukodome proves he can turn it around and become an OBP force again.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jan 6, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Lee in the 2 hole
as well…
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
by TheRiot Police on Jan 6, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Man...
That sounds really bad…I apologize to all of the women and children
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
by TheRiot Police on Jan 6, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
don't forget the men and boys either but apologize for what?
I look at DLee batting 2nd like how LaRussa moved Carlton Fisk to the 2-spot, I will call it the G-Zone after the go-zone insinuating that the lead off hitter will be asked to do a lot of run and hit situations.
Lee is a patient hitter who can effectively go deep into counts effectively. He hits for power the opposite way and hitting second with a running base holder places pressure on the pitcher and will move the infield and keep him out of DP situations.
It would also allow the space to move Soriano down.
I would put what I think will happen as the Fontenot/Theriot platoon in the lead off spot and bat Miles who will be playing SS regularly (although Theriot will see some work there) but Piniella appears headed to moving Theriot back to 2B with Fonty and lead them off.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Jan 6, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was apologizing for
my poor sentence construction not the idea…
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
by TheRiot Police on Jan 6, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
are their English teachers present?
who needs structure when there is free art form?
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Jan 6, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're missing the double-entendre
Return to adolescence and it will all make sense to you. In the meantime, I’ll still be chuckling to myself because I’m apparently immature. :)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Jan 6, 2009 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lee hitting for power the opposite way
In all seriousness, did Lee hit a single HR to opposite field last season?
(I’m trying to find a site that shows his 2009 HR locations.)
I seem to remember Lee getting fooled and trying to pull about a million sliders away, resulting in an endless string of 6-3s and 6-4-3s.
I do, however, like the idea of getting the runners moving while Lee is batting as often as possible. If nothing else, it will turn a lot of double play balls into seeing-eye singles and, at worst, groundouts which advance the runner.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jan 7, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
At this point in his career Lee is better suited to the 2 hole. Unless he regains his power stroke, I’d rather see him getting on base infront of Bradley and Rameriz.
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on Jan 6, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind....
seeing Lee batting second, from here on out, period. I’m resigned to the fact that he’s going to be a Cub for the rest of his contract, but until further notice, he’s not a middle of the order hitter anymore.
To the extent that Fukudome plays this year, he should be batting way down in the order. As in 8th, or when Z pitches, 9th.
Let’s remember, our “OBP machine” is coming off 2 straight months of sub-.300 OBP.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jan 7, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone seems so sure they know what Lee is and isn't.
Yet, he hit .545/.583/.818 in the post-season. He also hit 13 HRs in the first two months of 2008.
Derrek Lee could be just fine as a 3-4-or-5 hitter if he is over whatever ailed him for most of last season.
But if he’s not, then I wouldn’t want him batting 2nd at all – not unless doing so caused him to change his approach a good deal and he was on board with doing that, trying to become more of a singles and doubles hitter.
But I wouldn’t force him into that if there was a good explanation for why he struggled so much.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 7, 2009 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We've been around and around on his postseason.
Lee has been absolutely miserable with men on base in the playoffs- something like 1-16 in the last 2 years with several GIDP, and the 1 hit was a ground ball that the infielder had to put in his pocket while Fontenot advanced to second.
That high SLG line is based almost entirely on Lee’s small sample size in the 2008 playoffs (11 AB), and the 2 bases-empty doubles he hit with games safely out of reach.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jan 7, 2009 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He still hit.
You complain about sample sizes and then want to trim the samples even more for meaning?
Look at Lee’s entire career, instead, and see that he could be a hitter of heft in 2009. I don’t say he WILL be. He could be.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 7, 2009 5:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
It COULD be that Lee has entered the decline phase of his career, exacerbated by the wrist injury and potential back issues. It could also be that he had isolated injuries that he didn’t want to talk about during a playoff push, and that an offseason of rest and rehab puts him back in the .860+ OPS range where he’s spent the majority of his career.
by SouthernCub on Jan 8, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the whole point
in getting a lefty was to split the righties up. why would you even want this lineup??
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Jan 6, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lets agree to disagree about the LH/RH advantages...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And I don't really want this lineup...but those are the players we have right now.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Works for me.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 6, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
STL
Comments on the Bradley Signing: See Item #3
In Bernie’s eyes, if Soriano is in your outfield everybody is bad by default.
"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb
by TheRiot Police on Jan 6, 2009 12:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that is some low quality blogging there
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on Jan 6, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the headline "5 Minutes for Blogging" sums it up.
Way to think it through, Bernie.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 6, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What an idiot
Once again people just assume Bradley plays awful defense, which isn’t the case. They also assume Fukudome/Johnson aren’t good fieldes in CF when they are.
At least he admits that we widened the gap between the teams at the end of his paragraph.
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
by nji232 on Jan 6, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep he loses all credibility when he says Kurt Warner has a hall of fame case at the end
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
by nji232 on Jan 6, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He has a case...
I believe there are only 5-6 players who have won multipe MVPs (Favre, Brown, Unitas, Young, Montana) and Warner has 2. He also has that ring… Not as farfetched as one might think.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jan 6, 2009 8:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's probably not going to happen
But someone making the case is not devoid of credibilty.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Jan 7, 2009 7:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Another playoff win or 2 this year...
and another playoff run next year might just do it. I wouldn’t think so at this point though. Pretty crazy for an arena league transfer.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jan 7, 2009 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His "peak year" stats are among the all-time greats.
In terms of passing yards per game, he’s #1 of all time. His yards-per-attempt stats are #2 all time, and his other rate stats are generally in the top half of the top 10.
But because of his shortened career due to Arena League and injury years, he’s only in the top 40 or so all time in most counting statistics (28th in passing yards, 40th in passing TD), because he missed so many years with little injuries.
Then, of course, he’s been awesome in ARI, and with Boldin and Larry as his WR, it’s pretty safe to assume he has another big season left in him, although probably not as good as his 4500 yard, 30 TD 2008.
His HOF candidacy is a lot like Steve Young’s — largely inactive for most of his early years for one reason or another, followed by a gigantic run and a few MVP awards.
Warner will probably wind up somewhere between Bradshaw and Steve Young in total TD passes, which isn’t a terrible place to be…. basically, Chris Everett’s counting stats, but in way fewer years, and with 2 MVPs and a super bowl MVP and ring.
Also, football elects a ton of people. I think that they have a minimum number for each year.
On the other hand, Warner has had a number of losing seasons, which Steve Young didn’t. Still…. honestly, I can’t believe it, but I’ll bet that he’s in.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Jan 7, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Lou had more patience with BOTH Pie and Dome
and was not bat shit OBSESSED with getting a lefty he thought was right we would probably still have Wood & DeRosa and a better team Hendry problem has always been getting a manager what he wants instead of building a team the way he sees it. He is still a very good GM but it would be better if he had not kowtowed first to Dusty and now to Lou.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 6, 2009 1:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Piniella was very patient with Fukudome...
just not Pie. Fukudome continued to get playing time despite struggling mightily for much of the second half.
The difference is that Pie struggled early while Fukudome started hot. First impressions make a big deal. Pie didn’t show Piniella reason to trust him in the brief time he got at the big league level, and so Piniella moved on. It may turn out to be the right decision and it may not. We won’t know until Pie gets his shot somewhere else.
by SouthernCub on Jan 6, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That Lou not only...
trotted Fukudome out on the field for the playoffs, but batted him at the top of the lineup speaks VOLUMES about his patience with that guy. Say what you will about the Pie situation — and Lord knows that I have — but I can’t fault them for hedging their bet in ’09 with another corner bat.
I just fault them for paying double just to have Mark DeRosa’s production from the left side; if they’re lucky.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 6, 2009 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The question is, was that patience warranted? Managers always will give
a veteran the benefit of the doubt when it comes to regaining their form, with the pretext that they have done it before so they can do it again. That type of patience is rarely shown with a struggling rookie. The most frustrating part of the Pie situation is the fact that many believe that the question of his ability remains unanswered. Lou was unwilling to leave Pie in the lineup to find out if he could be a legitamate major leaguer. In his zeal to win the division, Lou decided that it wasn’t worth the risk to play Pie consistently to answer this question. Either he had made up his mind or he felt the risk of not winning was to great. The result is a former top prospect who is worthless to the team and will most certainly be traded soon.
Was it worth it? Did Lou win the division at the expense of ruining the organizations top prospect? I really don’t know, but for a property as valueable as this, it should be certain. The top prospect in any organization should be given every opportunity to succeed. The fact that the answers to these questions remain unanswered is an emphatic endictment on this process. Someone failed along the way. In my mind it’s not good enough to shrug it off as ok and move on. The top prospect is the future of the organization. The top prospect deserves more than a passing glance.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 6, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
+101
Rec’d.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 6, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
All I wanna do is zooma-zoom-zoom-zoom-and-a-boom-boom...
…and sec that Rec.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 6, 2009 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice new sig line quote, DCD
and nice summary of the pieces of the Pie mystery, WMHG.
Tommie Agee was out.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that was once good, and it could be good again." TM
by Weeghman Park on Jan 6, 2009 9:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks!
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well said....as posted above this is on Hendry IMO from start to finish...
…and can we name a position player outside of Soto that Jimbo has drafted and developed that had a high level of ML success?.
They don’t call him Trader Jim because he drafts and develops young players and turns them into major leaguers….
New sig currently under construction
by JB 23 on Jan 6, 2009 7:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lou is paid to win the division first and foremost
He is not a young man.
Moreover, he was given the keys to a team that had just spent gobs of money.
His job is to win now.
We aren’t the Marlins or the Brewers. Lou didn’t sign up to manage them and he’d probably be lousy at it.
Prospects, even alleged top ones, can wait.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Jan 6, 2009 7:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Winning teams play their prospects.
Not playing prospects makes it harder to win now.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 7, 2009 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Watching Pie
Flop around at the plate like a freshly-caught fish makes it hard to win now.
This is Corey Patterson with better P.R.
Send in the next slab of meat. This one is done on both sides.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Jan 7, 2009 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So is he a freshly caught fish or a slab of meat?
I smell a mixed metaphor unless I ordered the combo platter at Red Lobster. Seriously, I think you’re exagerrating Pie’s struggles at the plate just a bit. And again with the Corey Patterson thing – OK, fine, Felix Pie is Corey Patterson with a slower climb through the minor leagues, better numbers in the minor leages and an as-yet-to-be-determined future in major league baseball.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He looks like a wilted bit of asparagus too
Just saying…
I’m just tired of the Pie hype. I hope they find a way to keep him, but it’s not going to be the end of the world if they don’t.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Jan 7, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's looking highly doubtful the Cubs will keep Pie...
…so this admittedly tired subject will likely soon be REtired. (Well, for the most part, I’m sure a few of us will keep an eye on Pie whereever he ends up.)
Honestly, I don’t think there’s much hype surrounding Pie anymore – just uncertainty and frustration on both sides of the fence.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It was also pretty tough for
Boston to watch Dustin Pedroia flop around and Tampa to watch Evan Longoria flail away for their first 6 weeks.
Good thing they dumped those losers and did what it takes to win now.
Plus, the Cubs are even smarter than those silly teams and gave Pie a whole lot less time, like, you know, 4 days.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 7, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh stop
I realize you’re Pie’s agent and all…and apparently Fukudome pissed on your Fruit Loops, but stop…
Tampa was never built to win now. They surprised the world, including themselves, this year, and took advantage of a Yankees team full of deadweight and a Red Sox team that had to ditch Manny mid-season.
By the time Tampa realized it was pretty good, Longoria was hitting .300.
The Cubs have real expectations. I’m all for giving Pie another chance.
But I’m saying he’s had plenty already.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Jan 7, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...260 at bats...in 130 games...over 2 years.
If a guy can’t do it in that amount of time…he’ll NEVER do it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 7, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Pie’s had plenty of “time” – unfortunately, he’s spent precious little of that time actually playing in major league baseball games.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't understand how to win now.
That’s what this is about. There are teams like the Mariners that sign free agents like Richie Sexson and Kenji Johjima, so that they block Jeff Clement and trade Adam Jones. They think they are trying to win now. They may be trying, but they’re doing it the wrong way.
The Yankees and the Red Sox put up with young players struggling for long stretches of time because they know how to win now. This is what smart teams are doing. Whether I like Pie or not has nothing to do with it.
And as for Dome – I’m a big fan of his. I think he’ll bounce back. I just think we’re better off with Pie if we have to choose between only playing one of those two.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 7, 2009 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
heh...the Yankes are not winning "now"....
unless “now” is 9 years ago.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 7, 2009 6:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take the Yankees' string of playoff success...
even though they haven’t won a title since 2000. Making the playoffs every year is pretty nice, as is going to the World Series several times (even though they fell short).
The argument that the Yankees’ spending hasn’t worked is silly in my opinion. It’s worked – they’ve just been unfortunate in some of their playoff series.
by SouthernCub on Jan 8, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We've won our division and made the playoffs...
two years in a row now….(crickets)
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 8, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hardly the same success, now is it?
My point is that the Yankees have been on the doorstep of winning the World Series in several seasons this decade. In 2001, they were a bloop single away. In 2003, they were favorites in the World Series. In 2004, they’re a fraction of second late on a Dave Roberts SB. Just a twinge of luck difference, and they’re wearing a few more rings this decade.
We’ve made it to the playoffs three times this decade, and had a good shot in 2003 and got embarassed the last two years. Call me crazy, but I’d rather be there every year. Eventually the odds will swing in my favor.
by SouthernCub on Jan 8, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
More times than not...
…a top prospect will make it in the bigs because how they were prepped in the minors, not what some manager will teach him once he gets there. Sure, some guys start slow and eventually get it, but some guys start slow and never get it. The question is whether Pie’s abilities were judged properly before he got to the bigs and whether they developed him properly before he got there. It’s one thing if a young guy is struggling to get hits, but it is another when they are struggling to get hits and also look completely over-matched the majority of the time.
For the most part, Pie was heavily over-matched.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jan 7, 2009 2:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pie looked over-matched
because he was adjusting a plate approach that had worked for him at every pro level at the big league level. Veteran hitters who adjust their approach in the big leagues can look very bad for a while.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jan 7, 2009 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
On XM today
I was listening to Dibble, I think, and they were talking about the Bradley signing. In doing so, they spoke about Dome and Dibble commented that Dome got into Lou’s doghouse and then said something to the effect of once you get into Lou’s doghouse, you can’t find the key because there isn’t one. That’s a large paraphrase, but that was pretty much the point of it.
Seems pretty true.
by ScottT on Jan 6, 2009 5:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you don't believe him,
you can ask:
Paul O’Neill
Raul Ibañez
Michael Barrett
César Izturis
Cliff Floyd
Jacque Jones
Daryle Ward
Felix Pie
Ronny Cedeño
Mark DeRosa
Jason Marquis
Kosuke Fukudome
The Canine Hotel California is open for business.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Jan 6, 2009 7:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot Stevie Ire.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 7:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, yes, Stevie Ire....
There are so many that I lost track of him.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Jan 6, 2009 11:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exiles from the Meritocracy.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's just blame everything on Dome...
Easy enough, and it gives us a scapegoat. Yeah…
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jan 6, 2009 4:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
And if we didn't collapse in Game 6 we'd have made it to and probably won the World Series
already…thanks for reminding me!!!!
by DudeVf11 on Jan 6, 2009 10:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Hamilton.....
How great would it have been if we drafted him in the Rule 5 and told the Reds to forget it. How about Hamilton starting in center?
by Cub In NC on Jan 7, 2009 9:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Oh, no.
Not this again.
For the zillionth time — Hamilton was taken as a favor to the Reds. They were the only team that would take a chance on him, because they employed Johnny Narron, someone who Hamilton trusted, to watch out over him. The chance that the Cubs would have done that is zero.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 7, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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