It's Official: Marquis To Rockies For Vizcaino
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 3:08 PM CST
in News
239 comments
This is no surprise, because it's been rumored for a week or so, but today, the trade of Jason Marquis to the Rockies for Luis Vizcaino is official. From the Cubs' press release:
photo via images.stltoday.com
The Chicago Cubs today acquired right-handed pitcher Luis Vizcaino from the Colorado Rockies for right-handed pitcher Jason Marquis and a cash consideration.
Vizcaino is 34-27 with seven saves and a 4.34 ERA (256 ER/531.1 IP) in 528 major league relief appearances with Oakland (1999-2001), Milwaukee (2002-04), the White Sox (2005), Arizona (2006), the Yankees (2007) and Colorado (2008). He has limited foes to a .242 batting average in his career, including a .238 mark (276-for-1158) by right-handed hitters and a .248 mark (209-for-844) by lefties. He has been especially effective in situations with runners in scoring position and two outs, limiting foes to a .183 mark (54-for-295) in those spots in his career.
The "cash consideration", apparently, makes the contract-swap savings for this deal approximately $5 million for the 2009 payroll and helped (along with the Mark DeRosa deal) pay for Milton Bradley's 2009 contract.
photo via cache.daylife.com
There have been a lot of bytes spilled anguishing over Marquis at this site over the two years he's been a Cub. However, I think Marquis did exactly what he was asked to do: take the ball every fifth day and pile up innings. He did so posting basically league-average numbers (101 ERA+ in 2007, 99 ERA+ in 2008), and was a useful hitter and pinch-runner. He is a lifetime .296 hitter with 3 doubles in 27 career AB at Coors Field, so the Rockies might get some value out of him as a hitter, too.
Apart from his one little outburst ("I want to be a starter!") last spring, he's been a good teammate. I wish him well, and there's at least a chance he might wind up as the Rockies' starter for the Cubs' home opener on April 13.
This also means that those two years of league-average performance cost the Cubs (approximately) $11 million -- which isn't so bad in today's market.
As for Vizcaino, it's possible he'll be flipped in a deal somewhere else before the season begins, since the Cubs don't seem to have much bullpen space. His contract is affordable for a lot of teams looking for bullpen help (the Brewers could use some, but they had him once already).
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FIRST...
…to bid Jason Marquis a fond farewell.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 6, 2009 3:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad he's gone...
but probably mostly because now I won’t have to read all of the “angst-ridden” posts about him. He wasn’t great, but he was far from the worst #5 starter the Cubs have run out there.
by storkysm on Jan 6, 2009 3:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry
Plenz will find a new whipping boy
by dr stabbingworth on Jan 6, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Marquis was never my
“whipping boy” Actually……….I thought he was a pretty good number 5.
You forget……………..my boy plays LF
lmao
by plenz on Jan 6, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And...........
this could come back to haunt the Cubs if they don’t effectively replace him. At least he took the ball every fifth day and kept us in most games. There are alot worse out there
by plenz on Jan 6, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Very True
If Harden goes down, strong chance,
And/Or something happens to another starter,
You’re right, we need a dependable 5th starter.
Good point. I guess you really did like JM
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not much bull pen space for LV?
I rather have Vizcaino over Wertz, Hart, etc
Bull Pen predictions?
outside of Marmol, Gregg, and Samardzija, and a lefty, (Cotts?)
why not keep LV?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget Wuertz and Guzman.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wuertz, Guzman, Gaudin
Looks like LV #s are better
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not better than Wuertz...
perhaps better than Gaudin (though Gaudin offers the potential to be a long reliever or starter unlike Vizcaino). And it’s not really fair to compare to Guzman, who’s numbers are skewed downward by the 2006 season in which he was thrown into the rotation despite clearly not being ready for the task.
Dropping those stats as a starter, and Vizcaino and Guzman have pretty comparable numbers as relievers. Guzman is younger and less expensive though.
by SouthernCub on Jan 6, 2009 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why I think Vizcaino could be flipped.
If so, and if someone would take his contract (which isn’t unreasonable), the Cubs save another (approximately) $3.5 million for 2009.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
it makes sense to spin Vizcaino’s contract to someone else considering the amount of bullpen depth we already have and considering the extra savings he could net.
by SouthernCub on Jan 6, 2009 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Detroit still needs bullpen help
perhaps they’d be interested.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Jan 6, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You can bet their scouts will be watching Vizcaino...
… and maybe Wuertz, who they were interested in last year.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like there may be a fit there...
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Jan 6, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TWSS.
It’s baaaaaaaack…
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Jan 6, 2009 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Bet...
… Wuertz is dealt to save $1M, Guzman stays in ’pen.
My 2008 Christmas wish list includes this jersey. In Hendry We Trust!
by initram on Jan 6, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
BETS.....guesses no less
First Cubs sign Guardado for $2.5M next year as the Cubs LOOGY designate.
Cubs move Samardz to the rotation with a new effective straight change
Marmol Closer deluxe
Gregg 8th inning set up deluxe
Guzman late inning set up deluxe
Cotts middle relief
Guardado LOOGY man
Marshall swing
Gaudin dog house blues
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Jan 6, 2009 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the first time I've seen Guardado's name raised.
I’m not familiar with him at all. His numbers look, er, inconsistent. His career splits against lefties aren’t too bad, I suppose. But Lou doesn’t seem big on LOOGY usage.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 6, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gaudin dog house blues
I like it
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seems mostly feasible and reasonable...
trading Wuertz and Vizcaino should clear space for Guardado’s salary.
Though I’m less confident on Samardzija being ready for the rotation, I think he’ll get a shot in spring to compete with Marshall for the job.
by SouthernCub on Jan 6, 2009 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're overrating Vizcaino a bit...
As I posted in another thread, he’s pretty much the same as Wuertz.
by SouthernCub on Jan 6, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wertz is younger, and so is Guadin but
I’m not sold on Guadin (career era 4.45) bc both Oakland & Tampa
usually hang on to their pitching prospects a bit longer and I just find that questionable.
LV numbers as a late inning guy is very impressive. As mentioned, He has been especially effective in situations with runners in scoring position and two outs, limiting foes to a .183 mark (54-for-295) in those spots in his career.
I can see LV helping out starters like Harden, maybe Marshall,, etc…
before we go to our set up/closers. I would think twice before trading him away
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My Guess...
… Spellcheck starts in AAA.
My 2008 Christmas wish list includes this jersey. In Hendry We Trust!
by initram on Jan 6, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Marquis was probably the best 5th starter in baseball.
Unfortunately, he probably got paid more than every other 5th starter in baseball as well. He did his job though, gotta give him credit for that. I’m glad he’s gone, but I don’t hate the guy like a lot of other Cubs fans do.
by kanderber on Jan 6, 2009 3:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't get where people dump on Marquis
because he was somewhat overpaid. The Cubs signed him to be a #4 or #5 guy and eat innings, which he did. He didn’t get the same run support that Dempster got in 2008, and took the ball every 5th day.
The Cubs could have done a hell of a lot worse.
Happy Trails, Jason.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jan 6, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And as I said...
… by dumping the backloaded part of this deal, the net cost for Marquis for two years was about $11 million — that’s not too bad in today’s market.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As it turns out today, yes
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jan 6, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually BigJohn
I think I read that Marquis lead the NL in run support last year.
My main beef with Marquis is this “inning eater” status people give him. It’s hard to eat innings when you give up 5 ER in 4.2 IP all the time. In fact his starts were usually the shortest among Cubs pitchers.
I agree with Al that Vizcaino could and probally should be dumped before 09 begins. We could use one of the DeRosa prospects or Guzman and pay them alot less.
by SignedSealed&Delivered on Jan 6, 2009 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think if Marquis had made less money
we would have kept him and we all would have been happy with him as a #5. It’s just hard to like a guy that was an overpaid #5. I felt he did a great job for us, don’t get me wrong. He took a lot of crap and I think it was due to money earned not on the field performance.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Jan 6, 2009 8:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
And Marquis showed up to win every day, could handle the bat, did everything asked of him. At least he showed some heart (unlike some people on our infield).
Check out my Cubs shrine: http://picasaweb.google.com/vegascubfan/CubsRooms#
by VegasCubFan on Jan 6, 2009 9:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Addition by subtraction
dont let the door hit ya marquis I’m glad you are gone!
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Jan 6, 2009 3:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Good luck to Marquis
Without his contribution in April and May of 2007, the Cubs would not have made the ’07 playoffs. He was just about the only bright spot during that time.
by jerry morales rules on Jan 6, 2009 3:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Off the top of my head...
…I’d say my fave two Marquis Memories are the complete game shutout he pitched in ’07 (I was there) and the grand slam he hit against the Mets late this past season.
And I agree with Al – aside from that one outburst during spring training, he’s a guy who kept his head down and played hard. I can’t say I’m heartbroken to see him go – as watching him pitch was often like watching a drunk man try to navigage a tightrope – but I wish him the best.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 6, 2009 3:23 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
That sounds like the making of a good Fanpost - What it was like to watch Jason Marquis pitch.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 6, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It was tough to see what was happening while my head was in my hands
Looking through fingers is never easy.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Jan 6, 2009 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
for me it was the heartburn
the slow fire of stress working it’s way up mah bellah…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 6, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Recommended DCD
I really liked Jason, his grand salami against the Mets, and what he was able to do as a 5th starter for us. I think it’s fairly uncommon to have a 5th starter you can depend on game-in-and-game-out, and Jason provided that for us. He wasn’t the best in the rotation, but he was one of the best 5th starters in all of baseball.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Jan 6, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good luck Jason
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
by fischisgod on Jan 6, 2009 3:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I never had any problems with the guy
if he was our number 2-3 guy it would have been a problem. but he was a good #5.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on Jan 6, 2009 3:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The problem was that he signed for 2-3 money and performed like a #5.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 6, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, but...
…. dumping the last year of the deal makes the per-year cost less.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that part put a cherry on the deal. This Hendry guy isn't so dumb after all.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 6, 2009 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What Hendry did there, I see.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 6, 2009 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and you can't blame him for the $ he got...
blame Hendry for that…
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Jan 6, 2009 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
What #2 or #3 pitchers are making $7M a year?
Mediocre pitchers, who have been worse than Marquis, are getting 10+ million a year. Or, at least, they WERE before this off-season.
Bringing moderation to a place I don't moderate.
visit the mindful mission
by big_lowitzki on Jan 6, 2009 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that he was paid like a 2-3
is the fault of the front office. not the player.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on Jan 6, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Goodbye Jason
You did what was asked of you. Thank God the team knew enough not to ask very much of you.
Enjoy Denver until July 31. Then the Rockies will trade your 6+ ERA to someone stupider.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Jan 6, 2009 3:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think we take for granted just how good Marquis was
as a #5 starter. I just hope we don’t regret his absence this year. Was he inconsistent sure? But he did a terrific job in his role, and often (sometimes) provided great starts, especially when his control was on.
I will miss you Jason. Good luck in Colorado with all of the “religious activity” on that team. I hope you can handle it. It will be nice to see an MOT mix it up with them! :-)
"When you are in a hole, stop digging." - anon.
by LAcarl519 on Jan 6, 2009 3:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Jason is gone, he's gone! I miss him so much! Oh I cry myself to sleep JASON!
FALSE : I do not miss Jason.
by NittanyCub on Jan 6, 2009 3:37 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
RECD
Cant wait for Jeff Spellcheck to take that 5th spot……..hopefully….not likely….nopegully..
Does Jeff Spellcheck have any #’s for BA? Hes an obvious natural athlete and you would think it would be something he was ahead of curve at.
What to do, with Larry Hughe?
by Rudey on Jan 6, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Could you repeat the question?
Seriously, I can’t figure out what you’re asking here.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 6, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's asking for his BAA statistics.
by Flatley on Jan 6, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he was asking if he had any hitting stats
as in, did he have any plate appearances, can he hit, etc.
"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano
by JohnM on Jan 6, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What NittanyCub was saying here was
JK
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So long Jason, we'll miss ye.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 6, 2009 3:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
so what...
he’s going to come back to Chicago and kill us??
BCB Works Miracles: It saved my English grade!
by Chanman25 on Jan 6, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh, heh, Heh.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Jan 6, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
the Cubs home opener is April 13 versus the Rockies….
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Jan 6, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thats not a friday is it?
gulp!
BCB Works Miracles: It saved my English grade!
by Chanman25 on Jan 6, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ugh
I miss last off season :(
BCB Works Miracles: It saved my English grade!
by Chanman25 on Jan 6, 2009 3:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You mean how we got our long-term solution at RF? A lefty that hits for power AND average?
Yeah, this offseason is totally different than that. ;)
by Flatley on Jan 6, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
eh, at least last off season I entered into the following season with high expectations
This one, meh..
I feel like the identity of the team of last year has been destroyed…
BCB Works Miracles: It saved my English grade!
by Chanman25 on Jan 6, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
EXACTLY!
With DeRo and Wood gone, I’m at a loss.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Jan 6, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But it's a +1 on the Rodgers offseason scale of value.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, actually it's 0 on the Rogers scale.
You got rid of a major league pitcher and added one.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wait...we got 3 players from the Indians....you're only allowed to count ML players?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's the way I understand the Rogers scale.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
couldn't minor leaguers count as 1/3 of a player maybe?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they probably could...
… but I don’t think that’s the way Rogers did it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can see that.
But last year’s team identity is tainted by a three-and-out repeat. Standing pat is the safe move.
by Flatley on Jan 6, 2009 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, here's another way I think of it:
We needed a LH RF, and we got him. Check that off the grocery list.
However, post post-season, we also screamed about a lack of identity, leadership, someone to stand up for this team. And the two guys that did just that and were leaders (both quiet and outspoken) were Wood and DeRo. Lee may be a captain, and Soto an emerging leader, but I think we took a giant step backwards in leadership. At least at this point in the off-season.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Jan 6, 2009 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True.
What would you have done differently to keep Wood and DeRo on the team? With them around, we can forget about MB, and perhaps even Dempster would have been too much of a cash commitment.
by Flatley on Jan 6, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No Bradley, but Wood could have stayed
We could have put the same team on the field of last year easily. Fukudome is the reason these moves are happening, IMO.
BCB Works Miracles: It saved my English grade!
by Chanman25 on Jan 6, 2009 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And what happens if Fukudome's 2nd half struggles spilled into 2009?
Who plays right?
by Flatley on Jan 6, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
shifted DeRosa to RF, Fontenot at 2B
BCB Works Miracles: It saved my English grade!
by Chanman25 on Jan 6, 2009 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That prevents us from using DeRo at his highest value: Super Utility Player.
It’s the thing I will miss most about him: being able to fill any number of positions on the spot. But if he were still around, he wouldn’t be able to rest Ramierez/Lee/Fontenot/Soriano/Theriot.
I’m not saying the team is better off without him. But I think that Bradley playing the outfield makes the team better than a flailing Fukudome on the bench and DeRosa stationed out in right. Besides, DeRo’s RF defense isn’t exactly top shelf, either.
by Flatley on Jan 6, 2009 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa will play the entire season though
Bradley might last 40 games out there with his injury history..
BCB Works Miracles: It saved my English grade!
by Chanman25 on Jan 6, 2009 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
or he might go the distance
who knows?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
curious
How do we know what goes on in the clubhouse? If guys show up and do their jobs and win nobody talks about “chemistry.” Players scoff at the idea that they need a teammate to “motivate” them. Fans scream about leadership when they want to lay blame on a team that doesn’t win. If a co-worker at your job leaves do you suddenly need someone else to come in and “motivate” you to continue to be good at your job?
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Jan 6, 2009 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, re: motivate at work
My wife and kids are all the motivation I need.
They are the ones that tell me:
GET THE HELL OUT OF THE HOUSE
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So
does this mean you don’t need DeRo and Woody to sit down and have a talk with you?
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Jan 6, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not worried about the clubhouse
they’re grown men, if they need a leader someone will step up.
The clubhouse can take care of itself, what the front office needs to worry about is getting better on the field.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jan 6, 2009 7:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, exactly
With Wood, DeRosa, and Edmonds gone, plus Fukudome, Pie, and Cedeno (not saying this is a bad thing) fading away, and the addition of many players who I knew little about before they arrived, causes last year’s team identity to go away.
I became a diehard Cub fan in 2005, and I can count only 4 players that have consistantly been with the team since the start of that season that remain (Lee, Ramirez, Zambrano, and Dempster). But this is the first year were I really felt the identity of the team has been rocked..
BCB Works Miracles: It saved my English grade!
by Chanman25 on Jan 6, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Get used to it
It happens to every team, not just the Cubs.
"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano
by JohnM on Jan 6, 2009 4:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wood & DeRo were part of the "Face" of this team
but JohnM is right, it happens to every team
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I consider that a blessing in disguise.
In retrospect, I feel a little sheepish for buying into the Fukudome hype as much as I did. I’m not sure what to think of this (as of yet unsettled) 2009 team, and I kinda like that.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 6, 2009 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't hype the first third of the season...
if he can just play 80% as well as he did the first month and a half last year ALL YEAR THIS YEAR…we don’t have any problems.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd call that a bargain...
…the best I’ve ever had.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 6, 2009 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a good luck charm
Marquis has been to the postseason for something like 8 straight years on 3 different teams. The Cubs are doomed! :)
by raisin1 on Jan 6, 2009 3:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Doomed? I thought they were "cursed"....is that pretty much the same thing?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jason will be Rockies #4
right after Cook Francis & Jimenez
JM actually has good career # at Coors Field
3-0 with an era of 2.51
At Coors Field? Yes an era of 2.51 at Coors Field
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Over/Under on the Rockies making the playoffs?
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Jan 6, 2009 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Marquis has always won his division
So I would guess yes the Rockies make the playoffs.
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
by nji232 on Jan 6, 2009 6:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So we can beat them in the NLCS...
… and then beat the Tribe in the World Series!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 8:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the west is pretty winable
but the giants should be better.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jan 6, 2009 7:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not exactly
Cardinals left him off the post season roster. The fact that he and Tony did not get along is another point in his favor.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 6, 2009 11:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ding-Dong The Witch is Dead!
The albatross has been lifted! Good riddence Mr. Marquis. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
One day, the dream will come true.
by brianp88 on Jan 6, 2009 4:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I am not unhappy to see him go.
I wish it had happened before the DeRo move, because it might have let us keep Mark.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 6, 2009 4:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
not so much
Moving Marquis and DeRo freed up the $10/yr they needed to sign Bradley. Hendry already had the Marquis deal in place when he traded DeRo, they just had to wait for Marquis to get back from vacation and take a physical for the Rockies. This deal was in conjunction with DeRo deal and would not have prevented it.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Jan 6, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What's next?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now we just need a SS.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what?
C’mon
whats wrong with Theriot, or Cedeno, or wait a minute?
you’re on to something
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm rooting for wait a minute to win the job in ST.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
win the job in ST?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ST?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
spring training
(sorry if I’m stating the obvious)
by SouthernCub on Jan 6, 2009 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, I knew that
but on other blogs it can also mean S _ _ T!
Not that SWL “wood” say something like that
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My bad
I figured I was missing something
by SouthernCub on Jan 6, 2009 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no problem
Thanx 4 lookin’ out
I mean that ST!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, Hu's a shortstop.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 5:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
who is a shortstop?
BCB Works Miracles: It saved my English grade!
by Chanman25 on Jan 6, 2009 6:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
naturally
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 6:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I say he was just a friend....bye bye.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 4:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
no comment..
BCB Works Miracles: It saved my English grade!
by Chanman25 on Jan 6, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you just did.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody beats the Biz
"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano
by JohnM on Jan 6, 2009 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's the biz. Nobody beats him.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jan 6, 2009 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OH BABY YOU...!!!
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 6, 2009 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. What an exciting bunch of trades.
I may not like all of Jimbo’s trades, but at least he’s out there doin’ somethin’.
When you talk to Cards or Brewers fans, they are in deep depression about their GMs’ lack of action—and they desperately need some Valium. Their teams haven’t done squat.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Jan 6, 2009 4:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Brewers are "talking" to Trevor Hoffman
I don’t think the Brewers are done
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If they sign him to be a closer...
they will be.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Chasing Gagne with Hoffman?
When will the Brew Crew learn?
by Flatley on Jan 6, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's like chasing Milwaukee's Best with Jim Beam.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 6, 2009 4:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Saw that. Hoffman might help
but Brewers’ pitching problems run too deep. Good bats to shop around….
"Hey Hey, Holy Mackerel, No Doubt About It!"
by scottsdalecubs on Jan 6, 2009 8:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's true
I believe AL mentioned that Big Boy Fielder might be moved
so there might be something brewing
I know Cheezy
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 9:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good Luck Jason
He was really placed in a no-win situation after getting that silly contract from Hendry (a three year deal after a 6.02 ERA season?), but fought through and had some very effective months in his Cub tenure. He just has not shown the ability to be consistent through a full season and the contract made it seemingly difficult to make him the swingman that he really is. I hope he has a decent year for Colorado (and sets some offensive records for a pitcher) as he seems like a good guy.
As for Vizcaino, his splits show that he has been very slow out of the gate the last two seasons. That might negate some of his initial trade value.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=vizcalu01&year=2007
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=vizcalu01&year=2008
by Qixotl on Jan 6, 2009 4:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Depends on how he does in spring training.
If he’s dealt, that’s probably when it would happen.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Score Reported...
… less than $1M went to CO for Marquis… $875K.
My 2008 Christmas wish list includes this jersey. In Hendry We Trust!
by initram on Jan 6, 2009 4:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I can't stand Dan Bernstein
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty sweet, no?
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 6, 2009 4:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which makes it exactly $5 million in savings...
by SouthernCub on Jan 6, 2009 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've got something for you!
It must be Eagleman!
by Flatley on Jan 6, 2009 4:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If he's still relying on a sinker as his bread and butter pitch in Coors...
he’ll need it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 4:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Somehow, he's posted a 2.51 lifetime ERA in five Coors games.
Don’t ask me how.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it possible without the silly contract
we all would have loved him for what he was? Be glad we ended up with him and not Gil Meche
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
by fischisgod on Jan 6, 2009 5:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I for one remember how atrocious it was to watch baseball at the end of 2006
Juan Mateo marmol and some other colwns starting….. I would like to see if Marmol could start. I dont think he can but interesting none the less.
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
by fischisgod on Jan 6, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't ever want to see Marmol put on track to be considered for the rotation....
his greatest value as a pitcher is out of the bullpen, why would you want to screw with that?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are correct but hypothetically
if he could be as filthy as a starter he would have more value… Just saying
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
by fischisgod on Jan 6, 2009 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hypothetically...
if we could get Peavy and Brian Roberts and a real SS we’d be the class of the NL.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
True story. God would I love that. i would rather have B-Rob though
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
by fischisgod on Jan 6, 2009 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
I like your thinking .. those two guys would put the cubs over the top .. Cubs need a speedy , basestealing , swichhitter , with a great glove an arm of Brian Roberts .. an everyday player .. plus another top seeded cy young award winner named Jake Peavey
by CUBFANINAZ on Jan 6, 2009 7:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I also think he is more valuable as not the closer but as the bail Luis Vizcaino out and pitch the eighth guy
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
by fischisgod on Jan 6, 2009 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Marmol DID start in '06.
And I’m too lazy to look at his gamelogs but, as I recall, the results were what you’d expect: He was killer for the first inning or two then he wore out and started giving up hits. Carlos is a born late-inning pitcher.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 6, 2009 5:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
i would just like to take a look see one more time.. he has developed more.
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
by fischisgod on Jan 6, 2009 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As a lights-out reliever.
I don’t think he has the stamina to be a starter.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he has the repertoire...
he’s got a good fastball and great slider. But he doesn’t have that third pitch. Guys like that (KRod is an example) seem best suited for the pen.
by SouthernCub on Jan 6, 2009 5:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Marquis was OK by me...
There is something to be said for starting pitchers that stay off the DL, and take the ball every fifth day.
Hey Lou, we're long overdue.
by deadcatbounce on Jan 6, 2009 5:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
+1
cant agree more
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
by fischisgod on Jan 6, 2009 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes...
it’s called doing what you were hired to do and earning your paycheck…most everyone else in the world does this all the time.
Color me unimpressed.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you see Lovie Smith's coaching this year?
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
by fischisgod on Jan 6, 2009 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No....most of the time the NFL = ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ to me.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well just be thankful then.
You are out in SD correct?
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
by fischisgod on Jan 6, 2009 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
affirmative
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
SD crazy about the Bolts?
Nice story actually…
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Jan 6, 2009 5:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
whatever...
they are incredibly lucky…their 15 minutes will be up soon.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what they were saying when they were 4-8.
These playoffs are wide open.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And Denver is incredibly bad.
Glad to see Shanahan gone though, never did like him.
"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will
by eswan9 on Jan 6, 2009 9:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TWSS
Hey Lou, we're long overdue.
by deadcatbounce on Jan 6, 2009 7:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kinda liked Jason
with his east coast accent. He made me think that is what Joe Slobotnik (Charlie Brown’s favorite player) would sound like.
by ChicagoRobb on Jan 6, 2009 6:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That was a VERY heavy NYC accent
by way of Staten Island but yes it was funny. Like a Jewish gangster.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 6, 2009 11:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also a fan of Jason's vernacular vocal verisimilitude
"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano
by JohnM on Jan 7, 2009 4:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wood and DeRo
For those of you who are lamenting Kerry’s departure, I’m not sold that we should’ve paid $10MM/year for a mediocre closer. He blew 15% of his saves and walked/hit quite a few per 9……he was hardly the real deal. While I realize Gregg is not perfect either, I like the “strategy” of moving Marmol to close and using Gregg as set up while saving some $$$. Spellcheck could also set up Marmol-let’s not forget, if Gregg is a bust.
Additionally, DeRosa had a CAREER year last year and turns 34 before the season starts. I don’t think it’s a bad sell high move, although I can see some “complaints” about the prospects we received in return. I’m holding judgment until we see if these players get packaged in another deal coming. Bottom line, I can see some sound rationale to the trade…
by jballgame on Jan 6, 2009 6:16 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Let's look at Wood's walks and Gregg's.
Wood: 66.1 IP, 18 BB, 7 HBP
Gregg: 68.2 IP, 37 BB, 4 HBP
Now, tell me again that Gregg has better control than Wood.
Oh, and Gregg blew 24% of his save opportunities.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 8:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He never said Gregg was better than Wood.
He was saying Wood is about league average for a closer (and I don’t know if this is true or not)
by GoCubbies34 on Jan 6, 2009 8:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, but he implied Wood walked a lot of people and Gregg doesn't.
Which isn’t true.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 7, 2009 4:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where did I imply Gregg doesn’t? I said we shouldn’t pay $10MM for Wood as an average closer, and that we’re saving alot of money on Gregg as a SET UP MAN. Never made any comments about Gregg’s walks-in fact, I qualified that Gregg could be a bust, which actually implies that I looked at his stats and saw the walks (which I did).
SETTLE DOWN AL! I already looked at the stats you posted-I do my homework.
by jballgame on Jan 7, 2009 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, OK, calm down.
I thought Wood did an excellent job and was worth that kind of money. He was above-average, not “average”. You disagreed.
You did say Wood “walked/hit quite a few per 9 innings”, which simply isn’t true.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 7, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Calm....
Fair enough-Woody hit/walked 25 in 66 innings or 1 every 2 and 2/3. Not bad. I just remember NEVER feeling comfortable with him out there because he was so erratic-he came awfully close to blowing more than just 4 saves……I realize awfully close doesn’t really matter in the stats column…….but let’s just say he wasn’t a shutdown guy like other teams have.
by jballgame on Jan 7, 2009 7:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brad Lidge notwithstanding...
…very few closers are perfect all the time. And I believe it’s unreasonable to expect them to be.
RIP Ron Asheton (1948-2009)
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 8, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, and...
… I never had that worry about Wood. I thought he was above-averager.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 8, 2009 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's give Gregg a chance....
Wood’s lack of walks somewhat surprized me in 2008. Maybe Gregg can throw strikes in 2009 with Sweet Lou supervision.
Hey Lou, we're long overdue.
by deadcatbounce on Jan 7, 2009 12:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Throw Effing Strikes"
"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano
by JohnM on Jan 7, 2009 4:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd.
Hey Lou, we're long overdue.
by deadcatbounce on Jan 7, 2009 12:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Um, try again.
Kerry Wood’s WHIP last season was 1.085. He pitched 66.3 innings and walked only 18 batters (and, yeah, hit seven…that he needs to work on).
And if he blew 15% of his save opportunites, that means he coverted 85% of them. With 34 saves, Kerry tied with Francisco Cordero for fourth place in the category of NL saves leaders. And this was his first year as a closer. He was by no means perfect, but I think he had a solid season in that role – and I think he’ll be better in ’09. Now whether the Cubs had room in the budget for him is another issue entirely.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
“I think” means nothing……….Wood was not worth $10MM as a closer.
by jballgame on Jan 7, 2009 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if you're going to play that game...
…the last eight words of your response don’t mean any more than my “I think.” And the Indians apparently thought he was worth $20 million, so perhaps you should take it up with them.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Woody
was the real deal. That’s all I got to say about that, because there’s nothing else to possibly say.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Reed Ballgame - best CF in the MLB
by californiachicagoan on Jan 7, 2009 6:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry wants to add an arm
Move Wuert, Pie, Cedeno and Vizcaino and that makes room for you know who.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Jan 6, 2009 6:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Move them? Really....just like that? LOL.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 6:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They don't have trade value?
Interesting.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Jan 6, 2009 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My point is...
you can’t just move them and get Peavy like you’re selling and buying stocks and bonds. And I don’t recall typing any combination of words that suggested they don’t have trade value…but I you think we can offer those clowns for Jake Peavy…well…
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 6, 2009 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
of course
more has to be added, but cedeno, wuertz and pie can be part of a sd deal. will be more difficult to move vizcaino..
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Jan 7, 2009 9:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pie's skinny
he can’t weigh much…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2009 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Jake Peavey 2007 cy young winner
by CUBFANINAZ on Jan 6, 2009 7:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Never heard of him.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
With Marquis gone
Any predictions about the opening rotation schedule?
My guess is:
Z vs Astros
Harden vs Astros (warmer weather and sets him up to pitch indoors at Mil instead of outside during our home opening series)
Dempster vs Astros
DAY OFF
Lilly vs Brewers
Z vs Brewers
Harden vs Brewers
Dempster vs Rockies (gives him a start at Wrigley, where he is "okay")
DAY OFF
Lilly vs Rockies
Z vs Cardinals
Marshall vs Cardinals (giving Harden an extra day off)
Harden vs Cardinals
Dempster vs Cardinals
Lilly vs Cardinals
Marshall won’t get his first start until April 17th
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jan 6, 2009 6:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
you forgot to add
jake Peavey .. Hendry is not done dealing
by CUBFANINAZ on Jan 6, 2009 7:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jake Peavy will start at Wrigley Field on May 12, 13 or 14...
… when the Padres are in town.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 6, 2009 8:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what pitcher
they going to add then? seems pie and cedeno have to be moved…can’t just see them moving dero to make room for bradley either..
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Jan 7, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm confused as to what you're asking.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jan 7, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hendry has one more big move to make and
has indicated he wants a pitcher. whose he after?
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Jan 7, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ty Cobb.
We have, easily, enough pitchers to staff the starting rotation.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Eight is Enough?
Bleed Cubbie Blue: Like Drāno for your internet tubes.
by znohitter on Jan 7, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Hendry has one more big move to make".
Where did you get that?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 7, 2009 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, it appears that's exactly what Hendry did.
He moved DeRo to make room for Bradley. Peavy is highly, highly unlikely at this point.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, Harden making his first three scheduled starts?
I like the optimism.
by the nth on Jan 6, 2009 7:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can Gathright leadoff (more than) some of the time?
or will he be purely used a bench player? Is his hitting the biggest thing keeping him out of an everyday lineup?
Thanks
"Hey Hey, Holy Mackerel, No Doubt About It!"
by scottsdalecubs on Jan 6, 2009 8:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I just hope
gathright can leadoff a game with a homerun. i’m begging you gathright please do it. I will be supplying the steak sauce if wanted by the man that will be eating his entire scorecard!
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Jan 6, 2009 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As I said when I made this offer...
… Gathright has one major league home run in 1145 AB. The chance that he’ll hit another is pretty small, the chance that he will hit it leading off a game is even smaller.
I think my scorecards will remain uneaten.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 7, 2009 4:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmmm...
Maybe he could lead-off with an inside the park home run?
I wonder when the last time that happened? It sure would get Tim Kurkjian excited though!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jan 7, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know, but...
… Gathright’s one career HR wasn’t an inside-the-park job.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jan 7, 2009 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sing it with me...
…Slappy Joe, Slap…Slappy Joe…
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can or will?
Gathright is most likely an 8 hitter or most likely a defensive replacement and pinch runner. He’s not much of a hitter.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Jan 6, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd use him against a bad defensive team
and have him bunt every time he comes up to bat.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jan 6, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His hitting is pretty atrocious...
he’s Juan Pierre with fewer singles.
by SouthernCub on Jan 7, 2009 6:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been a critic of Marquis,
but he has taken the ball every 5th day. I don’t like this move because we have a guy like Harden in the rotation, we need Marshall as that 6th starter when glass arm is in the rotation.
I think overall the Cubs now lack depth in both the bullpen and rotation, sure they have guys in the bullpen to run out there, but how good is the depth?
I'm finally moving on...
by slocs55 on Jan 6, 2009 10:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You will miss MORE than Marquis' pitching
He was good hitter, bunter and pinch runner. A real athlete of a pitcher. Z can hit a ton but no one is going to use as a pinch runner. He gave Lou an extra bench player which as I mentioned in previous post was especially useful when you go through a bench like Lou. I was at the Grand Slam game at Shea. It was amazing.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 6, 2009 11:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
a word on Hendry's back-loaded contracts
He was able to trade DeRo and Marquis before the final years of their contracts — making their value in 2007 and 2008 pretty good. As Al mentioned, We got a league-average starter for (essentially) $10 million over two seasons in Marquis, and DeRo for (I think) $7.5 million for two years.
I know I’m oversimplifying — we had to take on Vizcaino’s contract, and I’m not a huge fan of the DeRo trade (don’t think we got enough for him). But the back-loaded contracts in these two cases weren’t disasters. It’s just too bad that a lot of the other back-loaded contracts came with no-trade clauses. I’m not looking forward to Soriano in year eight.
by elgato on Jan 7, 2009 9:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
One point about no-trade clauses,
Lee and Ramirez both are 10 & 5 players (10 years in MLB, 5 with their existing team) which means they have no trade rights by way of the collective bargaining agreement. Because they would soon have 10 & 5 rights, it was a very easy to give both of those players a no trade clause in their contract.
The only no-trade clause Hendry has given to a free agent player is Soriano. I agree that this is the contract that could be very ugly at the end.
BTW, Ryan Dempster now has 5 & 10 rights so he cannot be traded without his permission.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jan 7, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting point! Rec'd.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2009 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
interesting ...
I hadn’t considered that. Does anybody know if Kosuke has a NTC?
by elgato on Jan 7, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I felt Marquis
did an acceptable job as a 5th starter, although he probably was paid too much. He always took the ball, got into the 6th or 7th, and usually gave the team a chance to win. He was probably more effective than a lot of number 5 guys around the league. I also think that he is easily replaced. I’d like to see them keep spellcheck in the pen as a setup guy and put Marshall in the number 5 spot. I think Sean has done a pretty decent job the last two years.
by qccub on Jan 8, 2009 12:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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