John Smoltz set to sign with Red Sox
by CubFreak on Jan 7, 2009 11:56 PM CST
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PrintI like this move for the Red Sox and I wouldn't have mind seeing JS in a Cubs' uniform, that is if we never actually got , well, you know who.
I thought JS was going to be one of those few players in today's game that were going to retire with their original team. I thought the same for Kerry Wood. That not being the case, JS is set to join the Red Sox. He might not be ready till May/June, but with Harden's history, JS would have been a great insurance arm for us. Either as a starter, or in the bull pen, even as a closer if need be. The $$$ amount is fair and IF healthy JS is a gamer and a winner. Would you have liked to see JS in Cubbie blue?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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No.
He’s almost 42 years old and, as you say, not ready till 1/3 of the season is gone. What would be the point?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
A one year deal just as an insurance
It’s like getting another pitcher by the trading deadline, w/o trading anyone
What if, just what if, Marmol can’t close or Marmol/Gregg gets hurt
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Maybe Shark could close.
Or Guzman.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I would've been okay with it
at the right price. That said, it wasn’t something I ever contemplated, as this wasn’t something Hendry would ever do, IMO.
I think he would’ve gone back to Atlanta had they made a decent offer. Most indications were that the Braves never really offered until the end and that Smoltz preferred going back to Atlanta. Supposedly, the Braves would’ve gone to 3 million, according to Dave O’Brien from the ajc (I’ll find a link later). Considering how awful Frank Wren’s offseason has been, considering the positive reports on Smoltz’s throwing sessions, considering their pitching need, considering how Smoltz’s contract wouldn’t have impacted the future, considering Smoltz’s history with the team, which includes passing up money to stay with Atlanta, I’m surprised Atlanta didn’t budge 2 million and try to make Smoltz at least think about it.
Baldelli
The Red Sox made another interesting move in signing Rocco Baldelli to be their fourth outfielder. I like this move, although it could end up hurting the Sox if his injury is as bad as once thought. Baldelli should get significant playing time spelling J.D. Drew.
For a team like the Red Sox, the signing of Smoltz makes sense. With the Red Sox roster, and seemingly unlimited financial resources, Smoltz is a nice gamble. Adding Smotlz, instead of say Derek Lowe, has less of a downside and a better upside IMHO.
by Tangled Up In Blue on Jan 8, 2009 8:15 AM CST reply actions
Another excellent move by the BoSox
When Rocco Baldelli was originally coming up there were comparisons to him someday becoming the next great Italian American ballplayer in similar fashion to Joe DiMaggio. If Baldelli can ever overcome his multitude of maladies that have shelved him for the equivalent of almost four years??? Then somebody is getting a good ballplayer and a class act.
Boston is not unlimited
The Red Sox are not close to unlimited as their bowing out for Teixeira showed. I think I saw something that their cap may be smaller than the Cubs (I could be wrong though.)
Boston however has much more flexibility than the Cubs as they don’t have as large a number of long high priced backloaded contracts as the Cubs. They also get more production from the farm system which really helps. With players like Pedroia, Ellsbury, Youlikis, Lester, Papelbon playing key roles, they have more flexibility to gamble on players like Penny and Smoltz.
Strength of the Red Sox is their great farm system
Ditto the New York Yankees. While the Yankee system has been down for a few years, the biggest reason why they won all those World Series in the 1990’s is the farm system that gave them great talent they could use or trade.
Oh how I wish the Cubs could have the model the Red Sox and Yankees do. But we dont’. Rather we have a farm system that can never get its act together.
That may change
with new ownership. Its been well publicised that our farm system is pretty bare, so its possible our new owners will see this as not only a way to rebuild and reload, but to save money on big contracts while still fielding a winner.
perhaps the
WIN NOW attitude has caused some of that, mmmm?
When you constantly trade away your minor-leaguers, you can’t build a good system.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Jan 8, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think WIN NOW has caused it
Outside of maybe Nolasco, there isn’t much quality that has been traded compared to the constant flow from Boston. The Cubs minor league system does get credit for the Harden deal but Boston also has a WIN NOW attitude yet continues to trade prospects when needed and still has others to contribute at the major league level in Boston.
Even with the recent graduations, Boston has 13 prospects that Sickels rates as B- or better. The Cubs have 6. That has nothing to do with WIN NOW but rather with being the best organization in baseball.
But it's more than who's in the system.
The WIN NOW mentality also factors into the allocation of resources within the system. Money and time spent on free agents, scouting trades, ML coaching and development equates to resources that aren’t been used towards development at the minor league level or with regards to the draft.
I agree that this in an area where the Cubs need to improve, and I hope that we see a bigger and better developmental staff (that will hopefully lead to better prospects) but I get the impression that this hasn’t been the highest of priorities for the organization and that, in part, this has been an expense of the WIN NOW focus for the big club.
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
That's a very good point.
The Astros have done exactly what your described and they have, by far, the lowest ranked farm system in MLB.
In recent years, the Cubs have added to their staff but as I understand from postings from AL, still are well below the staffing levels of many other organizations. Hopefully, the new owner, will continue to build for the future even as they try to win today.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jan 9, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions
Great point.
I guess the Sox only have seemingly unlimited resources because they have put themselves into postion to have more flexibility.
by Tangled Up In Blue on Jan 8, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions
At this point, Doyle Alexander
may give you as much as Smoltz. Each can provide veteran leadership from the DL position.
what a trade for Atlanta
What a mistake for Detroit!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Smoltz was just a prospect, I don't even believe he had proven himself at AA, yet.
Who knew. He could just as easily had the career of Ben Christensen.
what ever happen to BC
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Did. Not. Want.
Lame move from an increasingly desperate team. Smoltz is done.
Is it possible the Red Sox are the team that finishes third in the AL East this year?
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
No, Yanks might end up where they were last year
I think the Yankees don’t have enough
with an OF like
Matsui in LF or DH, declining?
Damon, in CF for sure declining?
Right field? Swisher? Really?
Then there’s Melkey he’s still with them right?
Infield is the best money can buy.
Is starting pitching enough
SOX 1 & RAYS 2nd
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Disagree
1. Yankees
2. Red Sox
3. Rays
I’m not sure the Rays are going to keep scoring runs at satisfactory clip. Carl Crawford and BJ Upton are talented but overrated. Also not sold on their starting pitching once you get past Shields, Garza and David Price. Kazmir is perpetually hurt and Sonnanstine strikes me as a lightning in a bottle type.
don't forget the new DH Burrell
and the Joe Maddon factor, great manager
I would put the Red Sox & Rays starting pitching staff ahead of the Yankees
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Yes...starting pitching is enough
Ortiz is on the downside and they have yet to replace Manny.
Red Sox finish in third, behind the Yanks and Rays.
The Yankees always do pretty well in the first year of their major acquisitions. They will win the division and make the ALCS. That’s where the Rays can get them.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
Yankees are the clear class of the AL East in my view
Joba Chamberlin and Philip Hughes continue to have high ceilings. Adding them to a healthy Chin Mein Wang (who won 19 games each in 06 and 07) plus AJ Burnett and CC Sabathia is going to make the Yankee rotation downright formidable.
Lots of pressure to win in New York this year. If the Yankees do get off to a slow start then Joe Girardi will be fired rapidly. The Steinbrenner boys accepted Brian Cashman’s hiring of Girardi. But you can bet the ranch they will pull the plug on that experiment if this team isn’t winning at a strong pace right out of the box.
They have yet to replace Manny
Umm, Jason Bay kicked ass last season
and helped the sox get into the post season
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Jason Bay is to Manny
as Roseanne Barr is to Gisele.
With Manny, the Red Sox slap the Rays into next week and trounce the Phillies.
I spit on your Jason Bay.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
And Manny with the Dodgers did what to the Phillies?
Jason’s overall numbers might not stack against Manny’s
but Boston’s new LFer is not a slouch!
I spit on your Jason Bay? Hey don’t get your panties in bunch!
since you brought up Gisele
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Smoltz -- Class Act
I saw Smoltz in Knoxville (vs. Smokies) last year when he was there for a rehab start. That is Braves country so there were all sorts of people gathered around the dugout waiting for him to come out and sign a few balls. My kids and I were pretty close to the dugout.
He came out and started signing a few balls. People were handing them up to him from 3-4 rows deep. Smoltz was talking to kids and posing for pictures.
THEN he kept going….and going…and going. He signed from the dugout to the left field wall (by then he was signing stuff from 10 rows deep). He took his time and chatted with people.
I bet he signed and smiled and chatted for over an hour along that wall. Amazing. Class act.
by Ghost of Fred Merkle on Jan 8, 2009 8:47 AM CST reply actions
Nice story.
He really should retire, though.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
C'MON he's still got some gas left
And I’m not talking about the one we get from Taco Bell
or is that only me?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
If he feels like he can still play,
he should give it one more shot. Otherwise, he will spend the rest of his life wondering if he could have continued competing.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jan 9, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
very good point
I think he will help the Red~Sox win the division
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Agreed
He has been one of my favorite non-Cubs of the past 10-15 years. A gutty performer and by all indications, a good guy. I agree with Al above though, he should retire.
I would love to see Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux all inducted into the HOF together. I’d be there for that one.
Smoltz - VERY class act
Always been a great fan of John Smoltz, who in my opinion is a sure fire Hall of Famer. Still leads the record books in all time post-season victories. To go along with his 200 plus wins, 150 saves, 3,000 strikeouts, Cy Young and 1995 World Series ring. He is a story of perseverance and of reinventing oneself several times. A dominant starting pitcher before he blew out his arm, then comes back a few years later to be a shutdown closer, then winds his way back into being a good starting pitcher once again.
Boston is acquiring a WINNER. Great move by them. This move will also enable them to trade some of their young pitching for catcher Jared Saltamacchia from Texas, who happens also to be a former Brave like Smoltz.
I see the Braves changing course
and letting go of the past. Unfortunately, they let the face of the franchise go.
But I do see this being his last year, he has too many injury concerns at this point.
Agreed
Smoltz wants to hang on for awhile longer. I can’t blame him. When healthy and able to take the mound he always gets the job done and doesn’t embarass himself. Key obviously is him once again climbing back up the mountain of healthy to last another season. My bet is on him succeeding on this front.
BoSox picked up Smoltz because he is a winner and gives them the flexibility to move a Buccholz or a Masterson for a Saltamacchia. And if Smoltz does come back in good form it may even allow them to shove Jonathan Papelbon back into the starting rotation by the time the 2009 playoffs start.
Saltamacchia?
Is there any information to back up the claim that they are going for him? I’m not being an ass, I’m just curious as to why you are so adamant about it.
Red Sox need a catcher
And yes, there has been talk of Jared Saltamacchia being on the radarscope of Boston and of them lining up well with Texas in terms of a potential trade. The Rangers are loaded with catching yet maintain screaming need for pitching (don’t they always?). Clay Buccholz going to Texas has been rumored.
That deal would actually make sense for both teams.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I hope they get someone besides JV
great guy but really a back up
No Stick JV
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Braves Fan Base Shrinking
I see it shrinking because of the Braves’ performance over the past three seasons. They are no longer on national basic cable TV on TBS. The team is not developing any Braves fans outside of the south these days.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
Think it's a great move.
Look at some of the young arms on that staff- Bucholz, Papelbon, Lester…Bringing in a guy like Smoltz will only help. He certainly won’t be leaned on to contribute IMMEDIATELY because of the talent the Sox already have. I think they were one of the few teams that could make this deal without much to risk. Plus, I bet they sell a TON of Smoltz jerseys :)
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Jan 8, 2009 9:11 AM CST reply actions
Very true, but...
…people tend to forget as his team “only” won one World Series (a series in which he didn’t really factor in) and he got a no decision in the single most famous post-season game he started.
There’s a very real chance that Glavine, Maddux, & Smoltz all go in the Hall on the first ballot (I wouldn’t personally say Glavine should, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he did), which would be astounding considering they were all teammates in their prime. That’s neither here nor there, though…
"ONLY" World Series
Fine he was a non factor in the 95 WS, but they would not have gotten there w/o him.
He was 12-7 that season with 193 innings pitched to go with 193Ks
Post-Season Career #s, 15-4 with an ERA of 2.65
Those are the kind of October #s
we need to help reach the WS
not just October
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Doubt he's putting up those numbers these days...
But yeah – in the 90s (and maybe even into the 2000s), Smoltz was a money big-game pitcher.
I don't believe in "Xth ballot" Hall of Famers...
You either are one or you’re not. I tend to agree that Smoltz is one, though.
That's becase there is not an Xth ballot.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Jan 8, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
In Rome there is.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
I worded my reply to your message poorly...
I agree with you completely that he was a huge post-season pitcher. My point was that most people forget this because he was downright bad in the ‘95 Series (after a very good run up to that point, both regular season and post-season) and his most famous post-season start was Game 7 of the ’91 series (which he really should have won if Lonnie Smith doesn’t hesitate at second on a decoy by Knoblock) which Morris toughed out the win.
wow what a memory
Lonnie Smith? that guy used to kill the Cubs
Those darn Cardinals from the 80s
It was Lonnie Smith
then Ozzie Smith
then a dude named Herr
ALL gettin’ on base
then Jack Clark bringin’ em home
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
These days?
Last season he was hurt
fine, but what about
2007 14-8
2006 16-9
2005 14-7
before that he was their closer avg 45= saves for 3 seasons
if healthy, this is a great signing
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
That injury makes a big difference...
I’m not nearly as confident in a 42 year old coming off a major arm injury finding his dominant stuff again.
I’m not saying it can’t happen, just saying I’m not betting on it.
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