Milton Bradley's contract

Awesome find

recd

What to do, with Larry Hughe?

by Rudey on Jan 9, 2009 1:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Excellent, we have been waiting for this. Recommended.

Milton Bradley of
3 years/$30M (2009-11)

    * 3 years/$30M (2009-11)
          o signed by Chicago Cubs as a free agent 1/6/09
    * 1 year/$5M (2008)
          o signed by Texas as a free agent 12/07
          o performance bonuses: $0.325M for 400 PAs, $0.45M for 450 PAs, $0.525M for 500 PAs, $0.7M for 550 PAs, $0.75M for 600 PAs
          o award bonuses: $25,000 for Gold Glove, Silver Slugger, LCS MVP; $50,000 for WS MVP, All Star; $0.1M for MVP, $0.2M for Comeback POY
          o Bradley to donate $25,000 to club charity

Cot’s doesn’t have performance bonuses (non-DL bonuses?) for 2009-2011 up yet, but I assume it will follow some sort of deal the Rangers signed him to.

As always, new window.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Jan 9, 2009 1:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

It's a little more detailed now

3 years/$30M (2009-11)
signed by Chicago Cubs as a free agent 1/6/09
$4M signing bonus
09:$5M, 10:$9M, 11:$12M
2011 may become $12M club option with $2M buyout based on Bradley’s health

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Jan 9, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I still don't get it.

What does “may become a $12M club option” mean? Is it an option or not, or are there caveats on how the $12M can be vested?

Any guesses?

by N Oakley on Jan 9, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yea, I think it automatically kicks in based on Bradley's health in the FIRST year of the contract.

At least that’s what it sounds like to me.

by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 9, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It Actuals Sounds...

…like the reverse of a “vesting option”. Call it a “divesting option”?

It sounds like it’s a 3-year deal. If, though, he is not healthy, his third year changes from a guarantee to a club option instead!

Really creative, if you ask me.

My 2008 Christmas wish list includes this jersey. In Hendry We Trust!

by initram on Jan 9, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's probably why it took so long to announce this deal.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 10, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good stuff

was hoping 3rd year might be an option some how

As for Peavy…it seems like having the least money in year 2 would be best for that, would be a strange structure tho…and worse for insurance etc, etc.

by reprisal on Jan 9, 2009 2:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

The third year IS an option year...

… according to Wittenmyer’s article, depending on how much playing time Bradley gets in 2009 and 2010.

The (approximately) $8 million saved from the DeRosa and Marquis trades pays for this deal in 2009.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 9, 2009 4:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I predicted the third year wouldn't be guaranteed

But I thought the first couple would also have some incentives for games played. Maybe its better this way, because he won’t care if he sits when the Cubs think he needs rest.

Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"

by zambranofan on Jan 9, 2009 7:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

How do you know this year doesn't have incentives for games played?

It’s not clear in the article.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 9, 2009 7:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What about the PA incentives?

Unless we have some really long games . . .

This is looking better each day.

I used to be "Jones," but I got swooped on the redesign.

by Mr Snrub on Jan 9, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cheers for this.

Great to see we’d be off the hook if things went horribly wrong after two years. Great to see Hendry’s learned from past mistakes.

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Jan 9, 2009 8:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Really, Jim did a good job on this one… finally. While its a good chunk of change that the Cubs are throwing at MB, there’s a nice sense of security built in, unlike SO many of the previous Hendry contracts (especially the lovely backloaded that we’re struggling with today).
Good fanpost…

by socalicubsfan on Jan 9, 2009 8:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Lovely indeed

Those “lovely backloaded that we’re struggling with today,” contracts that you reference have resulted in back to back division titles. That’s the kind of struggle I can embrace.

by Acapulco Taco Pie on Jan 9, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So Mr.(or Ms.) "A Taco Pie"...

You don’t see how any of the backloaded contracts have caused a bit of a wrinkle? Yep, I’ll agree that the back to back division titles have made for an exciting 162 game season. I think they’ve prevented the Cubs from possible acquisitions that perhaps could propel us in October.
Nonetheless, I would hope that you would agree that Hendry could have done a whole heck of a lot worse on this one.

by socalicubsfan on Jan 9, 2009 10:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly...

The struggles have yet to be fully realized, but we may soon be beginning to see the effects. For instance, the overpaying and backloading has resulted in (potentially/probably) the inability to get Peavy. But the real effects will be next year, when we may have to dump salaries (like Rich Harden).

by SouthernCub on Jan 10, 2009 7:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Now there is no doubt.

This is a good deal.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Jan 9, 2009 9:07 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

"Peavy!" "Peavy!" "Peavy!"

…just starting my chant….
;-)

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Jan 9, 2009 9:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Let's Not Get Ahead...

… of ourselves here.

Getting Peavy, from a salary perspective, doesn’t look like will be a problem for 2009… but rather 2010.

I have our salary at $134M right now… if they need to, they can push Wuertz, Cotts, Vizcaino, Pie and Cedeno for another $6M shaving. Adding Peavy at $11.5M doesn’t seem like the issue for 2009…

My 2008 Christmas wish list includes this jersey. In Hendry We Trust!

by initram on Jan 9, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's say this about the much hand-wrung 2010 budget:

Matt Holliday is the only big hitter on the free agent market.

That means we will be able to trade one of our RH, high-paid sluggers, if need be. The NTC will still be an obstacle, but there would at least be a seller’s market.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Jan 9, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Or...

… we just get a new owner that will let the payroll go just shy of the luxury tax limit! ;-)

My 2008 Christmas wish list includes this jersey. In Hendry We Trust!

by initram on Jan 9, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

why does it matter if it's a sellers market or not?

It’s a “no” trade clause, not a “well, maybe, it depends, kinda, sorta” trade clause. No means no, regardless of the market. If DLee (for example) doesn’t want to be traded, he’s not going to be traded.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 9, 2009 10:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure

There are some players that won’t budge on their NTC’s. I don’t think Soriano is one of those players and I think Zambrano could be convinced in certain circumstances so long as he was going to a winning NL team.

I’m not worried about trying to trade Derrek Lee, because next year, either he’ll be untradeable, because he was really in decline, or we won’t want to trade him, because he was just unlucky/injured in 2008. I expect the latter and that we’ll all be glad the Cubs didn’t trade Lee.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Jan 10, 2009 6:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed on Lee...

by SouthernCub on Jan 10, 2009 7:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Great Job by Hendry on this one

Although it doesnt seem that he’s learned any lesson from deferring money, excellent job in protecting the team in the event of any injury.

So b/t that and MBs comments yesterday, Im starting to get excited about this guy.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jan 9, 2009 9:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think the deferred money "problem" is overblown.

Note that we didn’t eat but a million of Marquis’ supposedly awful contract. We took a not-great contract back in return, but we may still move that, too.

I’d point this out about Bradley’s contract as well; it is, essentially, Pat Burrell’s contract with a team option.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Jan 9, 2009 9:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The problem with Marquis contract wasnt the deferral, it was the sheer amount

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jan 9, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I heard Hendry say the same thing about the trainers on the Score this morning.

Hendry also said Cub staff has been in Japan working with Dome and expects Dome to perform like the first 90 days.

Also said something like if DeRosa was a lefty or a switcher, he wouldn’t have been moved.

by N Oakley on Jan 9, 2009 9:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

We'll see with Fukudome.

I hope he’s back to that form, but I really doubt he will be.

by aramis on Jan 9, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be happy with a middle ground Fukodome;

somewhere between the all-star player of the 1st half and the lost player of the 2nd half.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jan 9, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That would be fine, although he was never really an all star player.

by aramis on Jan 9, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's nice to hear about Dome.

No guarantees, of course. But that’s nice to hear.

RIP Ron Asheton (1948-2009)

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 9, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It was an interesting interview - about 8:45am this morning.

Usually sports talk radio interviews suck, but the Sun Times guys on the Score in the morning know how to ask real questions.

If anyone can locate the link, I’d love to hear it again.

by N Oakley on Jan 9, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Very nice to

hear about Dome.

by sue369 on Jan 9, 2009 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Jim Hendry

What is evident from this deal and from many others is that Hendry is very good at building trusting relationships with players. That pays dividends later on during arbitration time or when trying to work new deals (Ramirez, Zambrano, Lee, etc.).

I think he does a good job in relaying i) the direction of the club, ii) how player A fits into that direction, and iii) what his fiscal limits are and how that relates to the contract.

A+ for Hendry’s interpersonal/commication skills

by Ghost of Fred Merkle on Jan 9, 2009 10:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I also thought Hendry's ability to deal honestly and be forthright

with players came in to play with how he handled Kerry Wood. He had a meeting with him and was honest about the Cubs position.

I’ve watched how the Padres and Braves handled situations into a public relations disaster and it makes me even appreciate Jim Hendry even more.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jan 9, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

2nd base

Do tou think Fontenout will start at 2nd?

by Belfastcub on Jan 9, 2009 11:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think it's his to lose in ST.

by N Oakley on Jan 9, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah I agree. I also think Fontenot will be a better hitter and fielder than DeRo.

by aramis on Jan 9, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty bold statement.

Hitting… maybe.

But fielding… not so much.

But I certainly hope you’re right.

http://thegettinplace.blogspot.com/

by TheTruth11 on Jan 9, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I have to agree with TheTruth.

While I believe it’s LBR’s to lose in ST, I’m not saying he will be better than DeRo. Left handed yes, but better? no

by N Oakley on Jan 9, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Stat of the week

John Dewan’s “Stat of the Week,” disagrees. Dewan claims that in 2008 DeRosa was a -8 at second base while Fontenot was actually a +11. Fontenot was certainly the better defender last season, that should continue as he is 5 years DeRo’s junior.
Fontenot not only gives you another lefty bat but his projected OPS for 09 is .809, DeRosa’s is .783. So that would indicate that DeRosa’s arrow is pointed down and Fontenot’s is pointed up.
We are all entitled to our opinions but Mr. Dewan has made a pretty nice reputation for himself by objectively analyzing players’ performances. He has no reason to root for Fontenot over DeRosa or vice versa.

by Acapulco Taco Pie on Jan 9, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is the result I am rooting for, but I also subscribe to the theory

that DeRo was trotted out everyr day and LBR was put in many situations where he could succeed. This is where the sample size discussion is warranted.

As said, I want Dewan to be 100% accurate and only time will tell.

by N Oakley on Jan 9, 2009 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

sample size

There is no question that small sample size may have been favorable to Fonte. I’m not sure how many more starts DeRo had at second as he had quite a few starts elsewhere. I just wanted to make the point that Fonte is not an inferior defender by any statistical measure.

by Acapulco Taco Pie on Jan 9, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

why thank you acapulco. i expect you will be on the wall soon...

by aramis on Jan 9, 2009 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Mmm, I dunno...

…I think Lou will platoon LBR and Miles. But LBR will get more starts because he’ll face right-handed pitching.

RIP Ron Asheton (1948-2009)

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 9, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Methinks Miles is competing with Theriot

for the SS position. Could easily be wrong, just my thought.

by N Oakley on Jan 9, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hm, that would surprise me.

Theriot is one of Lou’s guys, so I think Miles would have to look insanely good at short in ST to take away the job. Also, I heard Miles interviewed on ’GN this week and he readily admitted that second base is his strongest position. I could see Lou using him to give Theriot regular days off, though.

RIP Ron Asheton (1948-2009)

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 9, 2009 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right now Cubs.com has Miles at 2B on the depth chart

with Cedeno 2nd behind him and Fontenot 3rd.

Sometimes the mlb.com depth charts don’t know what they’re talking about.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Jan 9, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This morning Hendry was talking about Fontenot at 2b.

by N Oakley on Jan 9, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That would make me feel a lot better.

One of my fears for 2009 is that

Aaron Miles is to Lou
as
Neifi Perez was to Dusty

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Jan 9, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's give Lou some credit

I know it’s just an analogy, but comparing Lou and Dusty is like comparing Mars and Jupiter.

by dr stabbingworth on Jan 9, 2009 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You know, they are both managers.

Lou is, clearly, a superior manager, but the obsession over left-handed hitters is scary sometimes.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Jan 9, 2009 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, isn't the playoff performance of the offense

exhibit A of the case Lou has been making?

Whether you think he’s right or wrong, a case can be made for the argument he is making.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jan 9, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can make a case for the Flying Spaghetti Monster

but that doesn’t mean you should believe me.

In the 2008 playoffs, we had 2 top-of-the-line LH bats to play, and one All-Star LH bat with potential, though also a poor recent track record. What’s more, several of our right-handed hitters had splts last year that showed them faring better against RH pitchers.

Given the two major explanations put out there, Ryan Dempster’s seems a whole lot more likely than Lou’s. Still, I don’t believe either of those. I think we just lost.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Jan 9, 2009 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Flying spaghetti

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Jan 9, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hendry said some interesting things...

such as “if we go with 12 pitchers and 13 players, we’d have 7 of our 13 players batting left-handed or switch-hitting.”

That would suggest to me that Hoffpauir is in the plans as the Daryl Ward type:

Bradley
Fukudome
Miles
Fontenot
Hill/Bako/Johnson
Gathright
Hoffpauir

Of course, I guess we should take what a GM says in January with a grain of salt.

by SouthernCub on Jan 9, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point, I heard that but didn't break down the lineup.

by N Oakley on Jan 9, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting.

Yahoo!’s depth chart has Miles over Fontenot at second base and Cedeno under Theriot at shortstop. Also note the glaring lack of depth at third base.

RIP Ron Asheton (1948-2009)

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 9, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't be surprised if

Teahen shows up still as one more backup/depth player. We obviously have to move some people first.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Jan 9, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes...

… I think he starts 65% of the games…

My 2008 Christmas wish list includes this jersey. In Hendry We Trust!

by initram on Jan 9, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think he will

if he proves himself in ST. Lou loves him so he has that going for him too.

by sue369 on Jan 9, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So now I would expect Ivy

to make a payroll numbers adjustment from the post the other day and to illustrate the Cubs in better position to add another ‘decent sized salary’.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 9, 2009 12:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

We can only hope.

RIP Ron Asheton (1948-2009)

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 9, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not really

I liked that post since it had all the salaries right there in one post to evaluate. And with Bradley’s 2009 salary only $5M (yup, another back load) it makes for interesting discussion, at least for me.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 9, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It actually was fairly interesting...

…but those charts were really hard to read.

RIP Ron Asheton (1948-2009)

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 9, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Which is something I found amusing.

Isn’t the whole purpose of a chart to make it easier to understand information?

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jan 9, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well I re-ran Ivy's numbers

dropping them into a spreadsheet and adding the numbers myself. There were a few issues but suffice to say with Bradley’s $5.0M this year and $11.5 to Peavy (not even taking off any other players like Cedeno for instance which yields even more margin), I come up with $142.5M.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 10, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it's actually $7M, if you add in the $2M bonus

but I don’t know if bonuses (boni?) count against official payroll numbers. Seems like they should.

Anyone? Anyone?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 9, 2009 10:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry all, I had to attend my mother's memorial service this weekend and this didn't have the priority level

I will insert this excellent baseball contract into my unofficial spread. It does open the possibility of acquiring more talent outside a role player like a LOOGY and back up catcher.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Jan 11, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs