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Hall Of Fame Vote Tracker

From homerderby.com here are the latest tallies for the hall comprised of all reported voting. With 51 Ballots counted.  Rice Blyleven and Dawon all look like good chances. And yes that is a vote for Pete Rose

 

2009 2008
Rickey Henderson 98.0%  
Jim Rice 72.5% 72.2%
Bert Blyleven 70.6% 61.9%
Andre Dawson 70.6% 65.9%
Jack Morris 45.1% 42.9%
Lee Smith 33.3% 43.3%
Tim Raines 33.3% 24.3%
Alan Trammell 25.5% 18.2%
Tommy John 23.5% 29.1%
Mark McGwire 21.6% 23.6%
Don Mattingly 9.8% 15.8%
Dale Murphy 9.8% 13.8%
Harold Baines 7.8% 5.2%
Dave Parker 5.9% 15.1%
Mark Grace 2.0%  
David Cone 2.0%  
Matt Williams 2.0%  
Jay Bell 2.0%  
Pete Rose 2.0%  
Ron Gant 0.0%  
Jesse Orosco 0.0%  
Dan Plesac 0.0%  
Greg Vaughn 0.0%  
Mo Vaughn 0.0%  

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Wow.

Looks like Rice, Blyleven AND Dawson may all get in.

The vote for Rose won’t be counted.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 9, 2009 10:00 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Idk...

Rice maybe… (since its his last year on the ballot)

Dawson hopefully… (My Cubs bias I’m sure)

Blyleven doubtful…

Either way, Im really looking forward to Henderson’s speech.

One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought you ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth.
Joe Garagiola

by Ryan at Cubshub on Jan 9, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bruce Jenkins (SF Gate) comments on why he's a "No" for Andre
Andre Dawson: Confession: I’ve never been able to make a definitive call on this guy. He does look great in retrospect. Hell, he looked great at the time. It’s just that from the very start, in the Montreal outfield with Ellis Valentine and Warren Cromartie, he was short on full-blown recognition. A reluctant no.

Huh???

"I'm petrified of nipple chafing. Once it starts, it's a vicious circle." Andy Bernard

by TXCub on Jan 9, 2009 10:26 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Huh??? is right.

Dawson stood head and shoulders above Cromartie and Valentine. Jenkins’ statement is idiotic.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 10, 2009 8:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Jenkins

Jenkins is a prime example of why the vote has to be taken away from the sportswriters or used in some combination with other factors even computers and even votes by peers.

Or a bunch of holler monkeys. Not sure the holler monkeys wouldn’t do a better job.

Barbara V. October 14, 1941 - December 19, 2008. A great lady who was a friend to all and like a second mom to her children's friends (she was my best friend's mom)

by cubstoseriesby100 on Jan 10, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Looked great at the time. Check.

Looks great in retrospect. Check.

What’s the problem?

make*art

by neverAcquiesce on Jan 10, 2009 11:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"Short on full-blown recognition"

At what point in the public’s recognition of a player can it be said to be full-blown, and at what level is Dawson’s recognition now? Half-blown? Three-quarters-blown? Sheesh.

"They say we live and learn. Often what we learn is what damn fools we have been." ~Thomas Sowell

by Goodie1969 on Jan 11, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think

its a disgrace that the all time hits leader is not in the hall. Who really cares if he bet or not. That is fuckin ridiculous

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue" - George F. Will

by tizzle on Jan 9, 2009 10:28 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

I think Bud Selig needs to end this standoff between baseball and Pete Rose. Rose bet on baseball, he’s paid his debt to baseball by being banned long enough… Speaking of, Shoeless Joe needs to get into the HOF also…

One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought you ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth.
Joe Garagiola

by Ryan at Cubshub on Jan 9, 2009 11:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Pete Rose

is the man, if you have a problem with him then you need to watch him play. Sorry, but other person played like he did.,

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue" - George F. Will

by tizzle on Jan 10, 2009 12:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

what other person played played liked him?

I know… I know

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jan 10, 2009 12:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

might as well burn it down then...

…so you can watch all the other scumbags scurry out of there like rats leaving a sinking ship.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 10, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

wow

I agree with you!

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 10, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd

Gambling on the outcomes of games is the worst offense possible. It has the potential to completely ruin the sport. As ballhawk suggests, the hall is indeed full of “rats” (racists, cheats, etc) but IMHO gambling is the one vice that can affect baseball all the way to its core. Something that the Black Sox scandal should always remind us of. Pete Rose rightfully is barred from the Hall and MLB, no matter his playing ability, his actions had the potential to harm much more than himself.

by StevenABQ on Jan 11, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 11, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Respectfully disagree simply because I think the punishment does not fit the crime.

Once it was determined that Rose did indeed bet on baseball, then by all means, he should have been banned from MLB, and deservedly so. MLB, as an organized entity taking in billions of dollars from millions of fans, has a responsibility to protect the integrity of the game for those fans.

However, Rose should not have been prevented from getting a chance to be voted into the Hall of Fame. I happen to think his accomplishments on the field as a player warrant his election into the Hall of Fame. The litany of sins listed in the Dowd report do not erase the fact that he is the all-time hits leader and performed at an all-star level for many years.

For those that say gambling is the ultimate sin in baseball, I ask why didn’t MLB completely expunge all of Rose’s accomplishments from the record books? Take it a step further – make Cincinnati, Philly, and Montreal forfeit all the games that Rose played in, revoke any World Series titles won with him in the lineup? Now that would have sent a helluva message.

It also would have been completely unrealistic. You can’t change the past and accomplishments achieved. MLB had a responsibility to protect the game moving forward, and they did. Contrition and honesty might have warranted an “unbanning”, but as we’ve seen, Rose was/is severely lacking in both. But he should have been able to have his day in court, so to speak, with respect to the Hall of Fame, just like any other player. Let the Hall of Fame voters, those self-proclaimed guardians of the game, do their job like they’ve been doing for many years. Go ahead and apply all the other standards of eligibility if you want, i.e. the character stuff, but let the voters pass final judgement and give him the thumbs up or down.

Look, I don’t expect to change anyone’s mind here. In fact, I don’t know anyone nor have I heard of a single person who has changed their mind on this one. But regardless of which side of the fence you are on for this issue, I would hope that most of us would agree that the Hall of Fame changing their eligibility rules just for Rose was extremely unfair. It’s been several years, but my recollection at the time was the Hall of Fame basically kowtowed to MLB on this one. I wish they hadn’t.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 11, 2009 5:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the fact that he was so adamant that he was telling the truth...

… only to reveal that he was, in fact, lying, is a further strike against him.

Yes, the statistics he put up are Hall-worthy. But Rose, tainted by gambling, doesn’t deserve to be honored by an institution that, while it is not an official MLB institution, is supposed to represent the best of the best.

Statistics? Sure, put him in the Hall of Statistical Achievements. But keep him out of the Hall of Fame.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 11, 2009 5:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Shouldn't the HoF voters have made that determination?

or do you think they weren’t up to the task?

My take is that MLB thought there was a pretty good chance that if Rose was on the ballot, he would have been voted in anyway. That just stuck in the MLB’s craw so much, they muscled the HoF to change their rules.

I’d be most interested in hearing your (and others) take.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 11, 2009 5:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I suspect you're right...

… that he might have been voted in.

But do you think MLB muscled them to change the rules? Or maybe the HoF did it on their own because of the public outcry against Rose?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 11, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yes, I think this came from MLB

Directly or indirectly – either way, I think MLB was behind this.

But even if the HoF acted on their own, I still think it was the wrong decision to make. By doing so, they, in effect, took the law into their own hands. This is a bit of an extreme metaphor here but a lynching mob is still a lynching mob, even if you agree with them.

The HoF should have had enough trust and confidence in their own process to let things take their natural course. Steroids aren’t the same as gambling, but arguments about their impact on the integrity of the game can be made as well. And I think we can see, at least so far, what HoF voters think about steroids in the game, by looking at the vote totals for McGwire. Should be interesting to see the voting results in the years to come as more of those players become eligible.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 11, 2009 6:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In the end............

………..Rose is “In” the HOF. His artifacts are strewn about the place and his legacy is fully recognized.

But because of his egregious actions, he simply won’t get a plaque.

"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns

by tville on Jan 11, 2009 10:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Its a valid point

I don’t agree with you on it, but its true…the HOF could have opted to allow its members to make the decision. However, there is no way that they were not going to follow MLBs lead on this. You might call it unfair that they changed the rules…but in a way PR changed the rules when he chose to bet on baseball and lie about it. I’m sure that ol’ Pete would love to get voted in, but as in religion…you really can’t sin with impunity. Eventually there is a price, we could go back and forth on whether its too harsh or not. Even if he was admitted into the Hall, the stain of his actions would remain forever…can’t blame them for not wanting that.

by StevenABQ on Jan 11, 2009 7:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I watched him play,

and he was one of my favorite players, and I’ve got a huge problem with him being in the hall. Going back on that, I was willing to forgive him for a while, but once he wrote that damn book, and 1) admitted to betting on baseball, 2) lying about it, and 3) releasing the book at the same time as the hof election results of Eck and Molitor – stealing their thunder, that did it for me.

I refused to read that book for a long time, and my wife finally bought it for me at a dollar store (she figured he wasn’t making any money off it at that price anyway), and I still couldn’t bring myself to read it… It just disgusts me.

Moose

Hubbs!

by moose97 on Jan 10, 2009 8:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

NO ROSE ! ! !

The man is banned from the game for a reason; he violated the most sacred of baseball’s rules. He is a disgrace, a festering wound, a blemish upon the game. He can not unring the bell that he has rung. The MLB gambling policy is prominantly posted in every clubhouse. Rose compounded his acts by lying about it for years, and then he tried to capitalize on the disgrace which he has brought upon the game by writing an expose/tell all book. I for one, do not like Bud Selig at all, but I must agree that his upholding of Rose’s ban from baseball and the HOF.While the man may have been a great player and competitor, his actions are not forgiveable.

by cubssouvenirman on Jan 10, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and doing cocaine is passable?

See Molitor, 1st ballot, 2004

I suppose admitting to it gets him off the hook, huh?

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Jan 10, 2009 5:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

It’s amazing to me how everyone thinks he commited the worst crime in the world. As you said, Molitor used to be hooked on cocaine. Gambling addiction is just as much of a disease as drug addiction. Why can’t it be forgiven.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue" - George F. Will

by tizzle on Jan 11, 2009 12:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not saying what molitor did was right

i’m a huge big red machine fan as johnny bench was born and raised in my hometown. I love what pete rose did on the field but at the end of the day he challenged the integrity of the entire game and tried to deface it. what he did might be forgivable but he should not and will not ever be let in the hall of fame.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 11, 2009 12:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How

is the Hall of Fame based on a persons character. I agree, he probably shouldnt have bet on the games, but the numbers he put up while he was playing, he absolutely belongs in the hall.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue" - George F. Will

by tizzle on Jan 11, 2009 12:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Once again, the point is...

… that this rule is posted on the walls of every major league clubhouse, along with the penalty for doing it.

Rose, of all people, should have known better.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 11, 2009 4:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Cocaine possession is against the law in every state

Molitor got in on the FIRST ballot.

The lesser of two evils?

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Jan 11, 2009 9:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Hall of Fame isn't a criminal court.

Should Molitor have paid a criminal penalty? Maybe.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 11, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

And

Drug abuse does not have near the same implications as gambling on one’s own sport. From a moral perspective both would be considered wrong, but in this case I believe the gambling has far worse implications…implications that affect you and me. Who cares if Molitor gets a bloody nose every time he climbs a flight of stairs. IMO thats between him his family, and whatever god or deity he believes in…does not affect MLB or more importantly ME. Gambling on games when your a participant…well thats another story.

by StevenABQ on Jan 11, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It can't

Drug abuse affects the player and his family/friends. Gambling on games for which one is a part of, completely compromises the integrity of the game. Unless you prefer your baseball “staged” then scum like Rose are rightfully barred. Nose candy for Molitor does not have near the same implications. This is a situation where the “old guys” actually figured it out and thats why gambling in baseball is such a huge offense. Trust me…some guy thought this whole thing out…alot.-

by StevenABQ on Jan 11, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This way of thinking really irritates me.

Cancer is a disease. Multiple Sclerosis is a disease. Snorting cocaine and placing bets on baseball games are conscious choices. No matter the level of psychological dependence, coke doesn’t leap up into one’s nose without one’s direct involvement, and the bets don’t place themselves. Rose was an adult who knew what he was doing. I have no sympathy for the “I just couldn’t stop myself” excuse. He is only a victim of his own stupidity.

"They say we live and learn. Often what we learn is what damn fools we have been." ~Thomas Sowell

by Goodie1969 on Jan 11, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Im sorry

And I’m trying not to sound like a jerk…but you really need to think about how betting on a sport you play affects the game. We all like and watch baseball because its supposed to be a display of superior abilities colliding with one another. Imagine watching games like we watch sitcoms…silly staged events that have no competitive angle. That is what gambling does to sports…why do you think boxing sucks?

by StevenABQ on Jan 11, 2009 2:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That Henderson won't be 100%

…shows what complete bullshit the voting system is.

Please, tell me one single reason that Ricky doesn’t deserve to be in the hall. Just one. You can’t – he was just that good.

by Wreckard on Jan 9, 2009 11:40 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Deadspin had a thing about one guy who didn't vote for Henderson

There are just some old writers who don’t think people should get in first ballot.

Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.

by nji232 on Jan 9, 2009 11:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, those "old writers" are 100% wrong...

… and anyone who doesn’t vote for a player for the Hall for that reason should have his BBWAA credentials revoked.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 10, 2009 8:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I say this every year.

If Cobb or Ruth didn’t garner 100% of the vote, how on earth should any player since be granted a perfect mark?

"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns

by tville on Jan 11, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just because the writers were wrong then AND now...

… doesn’t mean the system shouldn’t be fixed.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 11, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Greg Maddux, when he's up for the hall

should get 100. The ‘old timers’ need to shut up and vote or go away. I bet Maddux doesn’t get 100 just for the reason of them thinking no one should. Crying shame.

"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." ~Groucho Marx

by Jettero2112 on Jan 11, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

so should

craig biggio

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jan 11, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm

Maybe because people are supposed to “grow” in their approach to who should or shouldn’t be in the HOF. Instead of being an idiot like Corky Simpson and filling out your HOF ballot like a census survey. Cobb and Ruth both are examples of writers who had a personal beef and chose to use their HOF vote to met out justice. This should not occur in our time, what ever happened to being a professional…well at 88 Corky and his ilk are on the way out, unfortunately they have bred other boneheads in the industry.

by StevenABQ on Jan 11, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not clear on the politics.........

……….then nor now, but by giving another player a perfect score is to say, in my opinion, that said player was better than Ruth or Cobb.

Sorry, but I’ve not seen that player. ARod may have a shot, but until we see his full body of work, if I had a vote, I couldn’t endorse perfection for a player that was not the best of the best in the HOF.

"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns

by tville on Jan 11, 2009 7:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't agree but I could see the logic in your argument if...

…you, as a HoF voter, have been around forever and voted in every election. You could then justify not voting anyone else in the first time because you’ve seen them all and could apply a fair sense of objectivity. But if you take the current body of voters and somehow magically transport them back in time to when Ruth, Cobb or whomever was up for election, they very well could have given a perfect score.

In other words, today’s voter shouldn’t be constrained by past votes not of their doing.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 11, 2009 8:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

If today, I believe, Ty Cobb was the greatest player in history, then I’d need another player to better Cobb’s talents (again, in my opinion) before I’d consider making him the “perfect” selection.

Can anyone proffer a player in the game’s history better than Cobb or Ruth?

If not, I don’t know how a current player should be allowed to garner 100% of the vote.

Not saying someone won’t come along and prove worthy (ARod as an example), but until such time, I’d not be inclined to be a part of the perfect score.

"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns

by tville on Jan 11, 2009 8:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But the problem is...

… Cobb & Ruth didn’t get 100% because some sportswriters had axes to grind, not because they didn’t deserve the 100% vote.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 11, 2009 8:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Which, I agree, is..........

…….ludicrous.

"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns

by tville on Jan 11, 2009 10:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So why base a tradition on something that you agree makes no sense

If the premise of no one being voted in 100% is flawed from the start, their is no reason to follow that “tradition”.

Cobb, Ruth, Mays, Ripken, Henderson, Aaron and others should all have been unaminously voted in.

"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella

by El Borto on Jan 12, 2009 9:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well, if you believe Ty Cobb was the greatest player in history, then it stands to reason that...

…you would have voted for him on the first ballot, yes? Ruth as well, right? And probably several other players throughout the years.

I guess I don’t get why you would let the collective judgement of a bunch of voters from many years ago influence your voting and thinking today. Unless of course, you think those voters were right to not grant Cobb and/or Ruth a perfect score. If you do, then how do you balance that with your thinking that Cobb was the greatest player in history?

A bit of circular logic, yes?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 11, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

by the way, i'm really enjoying the discussion here even if it's just a few of us

kinda reminds me of fraternity parties back in college when just about everybody has cleared out, it’s 3 or 4 in the morning, and there’s just a handful of folks sitting around the room, having a few late-night drinks and talking about really cool stuff.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 11, 2009 10:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

Maybe Al will move a little towards center; I’ll move a little towards the line; and you’ll come off the street and into the park so we can have these conversations in person. We can still stay in the back row, but I won’t have to shout at you on the street.

Figured out who I am?

"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns

by tville on Jan 11, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

chorizo?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 11, 2009 10:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Uhm.......

………..better stated, the caller thereof.

"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns

by tville on Jan 11, 2009 10:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So.............

………..Merry New Year to you.

All the best in 2009.

"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns

by tville on Jan 11, 2009 10:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I would say that Ruth and Cobb..........

………..are the two greatest players of all time, and for certain Ruth deserved unanimous selection. And if I was voting then, I would have had them both on the initial list for election.

But I wasn’t voting then, and since I’m voting now (for the sake of discussion), how could I possibly grant perfection to a player that I don’t deem better than others already in the HOF? How with clear conscience could I agree to ensure perfection for a “lesser” player?

So until someone better than Ruth comes along, no one should be deemed “better” by being granted a perfect score. It may not be “fair” to the current and future players, but if they are able to establish themselves as superior to Ruth/Cobb, then, by all means, put them in with full honors and the 100% vote.

"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns

by tville on Jan 11, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Again, you can't use "superior to Ruth/Cobb" as a criterion because...

… the reason they failed to get 100% of the vote had nothing to do with the quality of their play.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 12, 2009 4:08 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

well

he is the all-time leader is runs and stolen bases, plus, before Barry Bonds, he was the leader in base on balls. Wait, that’s reasons he should be first ballot.

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jan 10, 2009 2:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

but there have been a lot of better players that didn’t get 100% either. Not agreeing with it, but makes it hard for me to get upset about RH not getting 100% of the vote. Ryno not getting in on first ballot was BS also.

by LT on Jan 10, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Blyleven needs to be in IMO

Blyleven I think gets penalized for not having 300 wins, as well as too few Cy Young votes and allstar games. But look at his first 8 full seasons, which I would think have to constitute his peak. For whatever reason, quality of team, run support, whatever, he was only 8 games over .500 for the entire 8-year span. This is despite an era of nearly a run lower than league average, and an average era+ of 134. All of that for 8 games over and one all-star game. With any sort of W/L “justice” during his peak, he would have well over 300 wins, and would be a slam dunk.

Even more than Dawson and Rice, his omission baffles.

"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin

by davidalanu on Jan 10, 2009 6:33 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

He's the biggest victim of the W/L fallacy...

Blyleven had the misfortune of pitching much of his career for really bad teams. As a result, he didn’t pile up the wins. And because the media (and many if/not most fans in general) don’t realize that a pitcher can only control his win total to a certain degree, they’ve mistakenly assumed he wasn’t a good pitcher. This is the same reason why Blyleven didn’t get Cy Young votes or All-Star appearances, which now are used as the argument against his Hall of Fame vote. It’s an unfortunate double jeopardy. Hopefully Blyleven finally gets the call.

by SouthernCub on Jan 10, 2009 7:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And even without "piling up the wins"...

… he won 17 or more games seven times and 287 in all. The rest of his career is Hall-worthy, particularly the 60 shutouts, which rank ninth all-time, and the 3701 strikeouts, fifth.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 10, 2009 8:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And the best curveball next to Sandy Koufax that the game has seen

It is criminal that Blyleven isn’t already in the Hall. I watched him pitch for years and the guy was a huge money pitcher. There are several pitchers in the Hall already who couldn’t carry Blyleven’s jock strap, to include Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, Phil Niekro and even Fergie Jenkins.

by BLou on Jan 11, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Blyleven

Its worse than that. Blyleven had SIX seasons with more complete games than wins and games where he gave up no earned runs and lost or 1 run and lost. Look at his 1976 partial season with Texas. He had 9 wins and 11 loses. And 6 shutouts and 14 complete games (out of 24). In other words, 2/3rds of the time he had to pitch a shutout to get the win. He pitched shutouts in 25% of his games, and complete games in more than half of his games.

This Texas season isn’t alone for this. When he won 20 games, 9 of his wins were shut outs and he had 25 CG (out of 40).

Its an insult that he and Santo are not in the HOF, and in the case of BB, it shouldn’t even be a close call. His record is that of a first ballot HOF’er. (3701 K’s and only 1300 walks) 60 career shutouts ranking 9th. The next guy not in the HOF is Tiant, number 21 on the list with 49. Bob Gibson had 56.
The 3701 K’s? 5th. You have to drop down to number 18 Mickey Lolich at 2832 (nearly 25% fewer) to find an eligible player not in the HOF. In the case of Blyleven, its not Cherry picking to put him in, its only if you consider wins and loses (a team state) as the only true test that you keep him out.

Did BB contribute to this? To the extent that he was a lousy hitter… sure… but if we are denying a pitcher’s admission to the HOF because they could not hit…… but remember in 1976 Texas had a DH (which also makes the shutouts all the more amazing…)

by frustratedfan on Jan 10, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not only was Blyleven a very good pitcher...

…he’s a good guy in person. Smart, funny, a good color commentator and willing to talk to a camera guy about pitching and baseball in general during downtime. A class act all around.

by MN exile on Jan 10, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You might have all already seen this...

….but here’s a article on the guy who didn’t vote for Henderson:
http://homerderby.com/archives/2247

by MarchHare on Jan 10, 2009 12:39 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

opps. Make that "an" article...

Been shoveling all day. My mind needs to get back up and running…

by MarchHare on Jan 10, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There's a perfect example...

… of why RETIRED members of the BBWAA, at the very least, shouldn’t get votes.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 10, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The writers have...

…gotten more and more clueless in the last 20 years or so. My theory is the growth in sports has them seeking their share of the attention (and media wanting them to get attention) and it has created guys who are out in left field.

I would advocate stricter guidelines for writers that can vote, but also allow baseball people; current former GM’s, managers and players to get votes. The theory would be to have many more people that are close to the game voting, and the shear number would limit the issue with home town favorites or other potential biases.

Right now, this process is broken and for some reason, MLB and the HOF is just sitting by and watching this BS.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 10, 2009 4:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The biggest part of the problem with the writers....

… is the number of retired writers who still have BBWAA cards, don’t cover games on a regular basis, and in fact may not have been to a game at all in years, still having a vote.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 10, 2009 5:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ricky Henderson and Jim Rice will be voted in

Ricky clearly belongs in the Hall, but I don’t agree on Rice. My ballot includes Ricky, Bert Blyleven and Andre Dawson. Absolutely criminal that Blyleven will yet again not make it into the Hall. While Dawson is a borderline case I feel strongly he will eventually get into the Hall. Because if Jim Friggin Rice is in the Hall then there is no way Dawson can be excluded. Probably will take Dawson several more times on the ballot though.

by BLou on Jan 11, 2009 4:04 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I didn't bother reading any further because I was laughing too hard

but all the ESPN baseball guys listed their HoF ‘ballots’ and Pedro Gomez actually voted for Jay Bell.

Crack me up…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 11, 2009 5:48 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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