The Case For Replay In Baseball: MLB Division Series Day 4 Preview, Saturday 10/10
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2009 11:01 AM CDT
in Game Threads
258 comments
You either saw the fair ball hit by the Twins' Joe Mauer that was called foul by LF umpire Phil Cuzzi last night, or you've heard about it. The reason MLB has outfield umpires in the postseason -- something they don't do all year -- is to get calls like this right. Cuzzi blew it, and it might have cost the Twins the game, since Mauer would have been on second base (the ball bounced into the stands and would have been an automatic double) and the next two hitters singled. True, the Twins also blew a bases-loaded, nobody-out situation by not scoring, but they shouldn't have been in that position in the first place.
Yahoo's Jeff Passan writes about this today and makes what I think is exactly the right suggestion:
Take the cue from football. Use a red replay flag. Each team gets two per game. If the manager throws them too early, or misuses them, and can’t overturn a poor call later, it’s his mess. MLB likes to render decisions on home-run calls now in two or three minutes. One game’s replays, if all played, would consume 10 to 12 minutes – and might save time, too, presuming umpire-manager confrontations over blown calls would dip dramatically.
Back in July, a major league manager said this: "I’ve said all along that I want a red flag."
It was Ron Gardenhire. He manages the Twins. They had lost a brutal game, and he was tired of the lack of accountability. He wouldn’t bite on the replay question Friday. So instead, Gardenhire and the rest of the Twins unloaded on Cuzzi. His lone job as the left-field umpire – a position, along with right-field umpire, used only in the postseason – was to judge fair-foul calls down the line. Nothing more.
I couldn't agree more. For one thing, this would introduce more strategic decisions into the game, something that would enhance, not take away. Let's say a play like this happens in the second inning of a scoreless game. Does the manager throw one of his red flags then? Or save it for later? Good managers would learn how to manage their two challenges. It would virtually end the screaming matches we see when controversial calls are made, and eliminate the ejections and possible suspensions of players. Don't extend this to ball-and-strike calls, but anything else is fair game. Try it in spring training next year to see what happens. The existing replay system -- letting umpires look at disputed home runs -- has worked well. It could be decided later whether this would come under the "red flag" system or be separate.
But replay works well in the NFL and NHL and doesn't drag games out too long. Especially when the stakes are as high as they are in a postseason series, it's way past time to do it. (And especially when there were several blown calls in the Red Sox/Angels series, too.)
Complete info on today's games after the jump.
Dodgers at Cardinals, 5 pm CDT. TV: TBS. Announcers: Dick Stockton and Bob Brenly
Baseball-reference.com game preview
Please visit our SB Nation Cardinals site Viva el Birdos and Dodgers site True Blue LA.
Phillies at Rockies, game postponed until 9 pm CDT Sunday. TV: TBS. Announcers: Brian Anderson and Joe Simpson
Baseball-reference.com game preview
Please visit our SB Nation Rockies site Purple Row and Phillies site The Good Phight.
The Denver-area forecast and snow already falling caused the postponement:
Tonight: A slight chance of snow and freezing drizzle before midnight. Patchy fog. Otherwise, mostly cloudy, with a low around 20. East northeast wind between 6 and 9 mph becoming calm. Chance of precipitation is 10%.
Brrr. Not baseball weather.
If an overflow is needed, please post it in the FanShot section.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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watching that you can only ask
HOW does an umpire, who is 10 feet away miss that call? He was almost right on top of it AT the line?
Talk about bias towards a particular team to ensure victory. It is disgusting.
Kevin Gregg is the Mother F'n Anti-christ!
by VegasCubFan on Oct 10, 2009 11:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Visual aid:
You can see dirt displacement where the ball had hit just thousands of a second before the photo was taken.
by chilango2 on Oct 10, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe some fans in the area
were waving white towels.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The difference between football and baseball
Is that in football, you’ve got a play clock, therefore a certain amount of time a coach has to throw the red flag. In baseball, would you set a “play clock” on the manager, or give him as much time as needed between pitches to think about it?
"The finish line is just the start of the next race."
by Sobenergy on Oct 10, 2009 11:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well...
… under the current circumstances, a manager goes out and starts arguing with an umpire. That could take far longer than any review.
That said, maybe you do need to have some sort of time limit. The same thing occurs if a team wants to appeal a baserunner leaving too early on appeal — they have till the next pitch.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting point.
If the rule was that you had to throw your flag before the next pitch was thrown, this might also introduce another strategic tactic. The opposing manager, after seeing a controversial play that might go against his team, might instruct his pitcher to hurry up and throw the next pitch, negating the red flag opportunity.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somewhere Steve Trachsel just cringed a little bit...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The good thingis that the pitcher can't pitch unless there is a batter in the batter's box
so he just can’t simply toe the rubber and heave one over the plate, ala a football QB spiking the ball.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Oct 10, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good call on the Red Sox/Angels series too.
The other night C.B. Bucknor missed 3 calls just by himself. I also don’t know how or why this man is still allowed to ump in the majors, especially during the playoffs.
by Gurbal on Oct 10, 2009 11:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bucknor is awful.
He’s bad at base calls. He’s bad at balls and strikes. It’s not just that game, it happens all the time during the regular season with him, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also doesn't like it when you don't submit your lineup card.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
You mean, when you don’t do a double-switch the right way.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's right.
I believe he was also the the home plate ump the day Barrett and Oswalt got into it, and Kent Mercker called the booth to talk to Stone.
Let’s face it, the dude is bad news.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
You stalk him? Because that’s some serious knowledge of Bucknor’s career.
by chilango2 on Oct 10, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's just say the guy leaves an impression.
I remember certain games vividly, and his smug little smirk always seems to be right there in the middle of some of the worst.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's right about the Oswalt/Barrett game.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I hear ya
My “cousin” Angel Hernandez is the one I seem to notice messing up…
by chilango2 on Oct 10, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Worst umpire in the majors
A few years ago Sports Illustrated conducted an anonymous survey of major league players, asking who was they felt were the best and worst umps at the time. Bucknor was rated the worst by a wide margin.
"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game." - Walt Whitman
by hip2bsquare on Oct 10, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean it was Not Bruce Froemming? ;)
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maddux Vs C.B
I have written about this before but hey you can’t do it too many times.
In 07 Maddux was pitching a nationally telecast game for the Padres Vs the Dodgers and Bucknor was the home plate umpire. Maddux thought ( and I agreed but I am prejudiced) that Bucknor was squeezing the plate and Maddux was not a happy camper. Beyond looking disgusted on the mound there is only so much a pitcher can do to “tell” an umpire he is blind but Maddux did it. When he was in the batters box ( and almost surely unaware that the National Broadcast had a mike there) he says to Bucknor " I am just not a good pitcher anymore" Bucknor somewhat startled responds " Huh ? and then Maddux says " I just can’t throw 4 strikes anymore" Bucknor is stunned the guys in the booth are laughing their asses off and Maddux just goes about his batting. Evil MLB took the clip down but I loved it. That ladies and gents is how you tell an umpire he sucks without doing anything to get ejected.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Oct 10, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
great story
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Oct 10, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that it matters but it was the Braves not the Dodgers.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Oct 10, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know it's probably standard text that you just copy-n-paste in every preview...
Please visit our SB Nation Cardinals site Viva el Birdos and Dodgers site True Blue LA.
…but maybe for the postseason, you ought to put a “NSFW” after the VEB link. Or the MPAA Rated R symbol… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 11:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Im confused
I thought there was replay on certain boundary/hr plays???
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Oct 10, 2009 11:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, there is.
But it’s needed for more, especially in the playoffs.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didnt happen to see this, was it a reviewable play and they just chose not to?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Oct 10, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not reviewable
I believe only HR calls (fair/foul, above/below the line, etc.) are reviewable.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So many things to say, so little time:
- Al Yellon for Commissioner of Baseball. He would fix Saturday blackouts, dubious calls and unreasonably favor a certain Chicago team.
- Bad calls have been made throughout the history of the game. The one from last night, while appalling and heartbreaking, will not go down as one of the worst ever. It’s a non-issue for anybody other than Twins fans and Yankee haters.
- Baseball prides itself on being “traditionalist.” I doubt we’ll see any form of drastic change in rulings soon.
- However, this little gadget can solve many issues, including the lack of a Jumbotron at Wrigley and the need for a built-to-spec review room at our beloved dinosaur. See KangarooTV in action here.
by chilango2 on Oct 10, 2009 11:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I accept your offer to become Commissioner.
When do I start?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yesterday morning. You're late.
What do you think of KangarooTV? You should bring that up when you meet with the brass.
by chilango2 on Oct 10, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
KangarooTV?
Interesting stuff. What’s the practical application for MLB?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Click on the links in my original comment.
The umps can have the little gizmo handy in the event of needing a replay. Since it receives the TV feed, as well as shots from cameras around the stadium, the user can have the freedom to look at a certain play in different angles without waiting for an official TV director to put together a replay package.
It has the ability to display stats with the push of a button.
And, more importantly to the Cubs, fans rent the gizmo. This means added revenue.
by chilango2 on Oct 10, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think umpires would need larger monitors.
But it could help MLB teams with revenue. Unless they black games out.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you heard that the Rockies-Phils game has been snowed out?
by chilango2 on Oct 10, 2009 11:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I hadn't at the time this posted.
Here’s the full story. Game 3 tomorrow, game 4 on Monday, game 5 (if necessary) still in Philly on Tuesday.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn
I was really looking forward to playoff Pedro, it will just have to wait one more day I guess
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Oct 10, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Playoff Pedro will happen
They will pitch J.A. Happ tomorrow and Lee on Monday.
by chilango2 on Oct 10, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
didnt happ get hit by a line drive
"hey
by jesus christos on Oct 10, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's the official mlb story:
DENVER — Cold weather forced Game 3 of the National League Division Series to be pushed back until Sunday and led the Phillies to decide to start J.A. Happ instead of Pedro Martinez.
Yes, he was hit by a line drive, but he says his leg doesn’t bother him. Here is the story.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't actually snow....
It was the cold. Yesterday, at this time (1:26PM, Mountain Daylight Time), it was about 25 degrees.
Today, it is 30.7 degrees as I type this (I live in the northwestern suburbs of Denver). It will likely be colder by game time. However, they couldn’t schedule the playoff game for the afternoon because the Boncos play, and Mile High Stadium (I refuse to call it Invesco Field) is just across the highway from Coors Field.
Could tonight’s game be the coldest playoff game in history?
IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!
by Cubfansince1957 on Oct 11, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe so, yes.
One of the 1997 WS games in Cleveland had a game time temp of around 32 degrees.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 11, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes the called sucked.
And Nathan giving up the bomb to A-Rod was brutal. Against the Yankees you can not leave 12 men on base. Gomez’s AB was horrible in the 11th. Man I want the Yankees to get beat.
Go Angels.
by Grockcubs on Oct 10, 2009 12:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually they left 17 men on base last night
and for that crime alone they deserved to lose.
by JFCubFan on Oct 10, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't wait for the dodgers-cards game
I like watching the st. Loius cardinals in this series.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 1:35 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
During the games
Or immediately afterward?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Oct 10, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good question
I guess both experiences are enjoyable. Also of some note is the creativity of their fan base and players in making excuses for their play. Priceless.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 1:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
It's a beautiful evening in STL
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
by kcjones on Oct 10, 2009 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have as much sympathy for the twins as you all do.
First of all, there’s no guarantee the twins score Mauer from second.
Second the twins aren’t even in the Alds if they didn’t get their own lucky break/bad call from the umpire from the Inge at bat.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Oct 10, 2009 1:49 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps not.
At the same time, they did get in. And they got jobbed.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
technically speaking, yes
But this raises a legitimate issue that came up here before, I think, concerning baggy jerseys (Prince Fielder’s in particular). While not as egregious as Fielder’s, Inge’s jersey was looser than probably anyone else’s on the field. Some kind of regulation needs to made concerning just how baggy a jersey can be and still qualify for a hit-by-pitch. Although I say so begrudgingly, given current rules Inge should have been given the base.
by cwpettis on Oct 10, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, here's a sequence that happened to me today at work.
I was walking to do something for my job, and a co-worker said “This is …, he is a Cubs fan.” One guy went “Booo! Hiss!”
Me: What’s up here?
Guy: I’m a St. Louis Cardinals fan.
Me: Do you have the champagne on ice for tonight when the Cardinals are knocked out?
Him: Well, there’s always next year.
Me: Yes, there is always next year—for you guys to get swept out of the playoffs two years in a row.
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 2:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
wait-I'm confused
How are the Cards getting swept 2 yrs in a row? They aren’t going to make it in next year. We are.
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Oct 10, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They'll be the wild-card.
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh OK-that's better
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Oct 10, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow - how lucky are you...
…to work with one of the world’s best co-workers…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the co-worker is a Cardinals fan.
All you need to do is mention that you’re a Cubs fan and the Cardinals fan will have a go at the Cubs.
They hate the Cubs more than they like the Cardinals.
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT-I just looked out the window and saw some flurries here (Woodstock, IL).
If winter comes earlier, does that mean spring will come earlier too?
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Oct 10, 2009 2:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We can only hope.
Especially considering we didn’t have a summer this year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty much for the red flag idea.
I’d miss the arguing though. That can be an interesting strategy too. And I wonder how the umps would feel about it. Would they hate it because it refutes their calls undermining their authority or would they like it because then they wouldn’t feel so terrible as they probably do when they blow one like last night?
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Oct 10, 2009 2:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think most umps just want to get it right
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Oct 10, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has Cuzzi commented on this publicy?
If not, that’s absurd. These guys need to be held accountable, even if it’s just in the public eye.
Regarding red flags… it’s an interesting idea, but I think two is too many. One should suffice. Otherwise there would be too many tedious “challenges” going on.
Where would you draw the line? Just fair/foul calls? Safe/out? Balls/strikes?
by kanderber on Oct 10, 2009 2:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd say anything EXCEPT balls and strikes should be reviewable.
Passan’s article notes that HR reviews generally take 2-3 minutes. If you gave both managers two, even if all four were done in a game — which isn’t going to happen in every game — you’re talking about 10-12 minutes total.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would've happened
While I agree that the call was blown, it didn’t cost the Twins the game anymore than the other key plays of the game.
In a game like baseball, it is impossible to say what would’ve happened had the ball been ruled fair. Both the pitcher and batter would have a slightly different approach. If football is a game of inches, baseball is a game of thousandths of an inch. Bottom line, the Twins lost because they didn’t score as many runs as the Yankees. There are about 50 reasons in any given game contributing to this.
"I'm petrified of nipple chafing. Once it starts, it's a vicious circle." Andy Bernard
by TXCub on Oct 10, 2009 4:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Harold Reynolds had a good take on the botched call
he thinks that maybe Cuzzi thought the ball was going to be caught and that when it hit the dirt, he wasn’t “thinking” about making that call. I can’t remember the correct way to make a call on a ball on the lines, do umps call the outcome and then the position of the ball or vice versa? I’m not trying to give the ump any slack, just commenting on what Reynolds had said.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Oct 10, 2009 4:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I usually like Harold Reynolds commentary.
In this case, I think he’s wrong. That umpire is there to make the fair-foul call, nothing more. If the ball is caught, the out call is the easy one to make. Cuzzi has to think “fair or foul” in that situation as his primary responsibility.
Usually umpires signal “out” first on a close fair/foul call and then signal fair or foul.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's really wrong with a blown call, so long as it isn't deliberate fixing the game?
I’m not against replay, but I also don’t see it as a magic bullet solution for MLB. I guess I just accept human error in officiating as being part of the game the same way that it would be for hitting, pitching, or fielding.
You wouldn’t give Tony LaRussa the ability to toss a challenge flag when Matt Holliday makes a spectacularly bad play that pisses away Game 2 of the NLDS—you wouldn’t just let them say “that’s a do-over” and replay the at-bat. The guy made a mistake in the heat of the moment. It happens. Errors are part of the game and always have been. In my (admittedly outlandish) example, Holliday was punished for his mistake. Unfortunately, no instance comes to mind where an MLB ump ever is for their own mistakes. That’s a problem.
What I would like to see is actual, objective, game-by-game video reviews of umprire performance. If they blow a rare call, that’s baseball and I’m fine with that. If they start to make blowing calls a bit of a routine, maybe they should be finding another career. At the present, there is no meaningful quality control of umpiring performance that I’m aware of and this would be imperative to address before I would imagine any meaningful improvements were made to the system, such as instant replay. If you don’t think the current crews are making good calls, why would giving the same clowns new tools really help (see Doug Eddings “the ball changes direction” interviews after Game 2 of the 2005 ALCS—I’m not sure I can conclusively say whether or not Paul caught the pitch, but I also don’t think I’ve seen a replay where the ball changes directions either).
Just my $0.02
by MarchHare on Oct 10, 2009 5:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The difference between Holliday's mistake...
… and an umpire’s, is that the former is something a player does in the regular course of a game. Catching a ball is a requirement for making an out in that situation. If Holliday makes it, the game is over. He didn’t, and the Cardinals still had a chance to win the game, but didn’t, because the other team took advantage.
If an umpire makes a mistake on a play that was clearly the other way, that can give a team an advantage that it did not get from any play of their own.
I think you can see the difference.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't clear enough in my original post...
To restate/highlight the very first phrase in my post I’m not against replay. Based upon the negotiation to get it to be used for home run calls, though, I would expect it to be a fight with the umpire’s union to institute a full replay policy which would be both meaningful and acceptible to all parties. Unfortunately, this means a likely band-aid fix which will still not satisfy the proponents and leave enough of the existing problems in place. Therefore, if we’re going to pick our fights with the union to make change, I think we can choose something a bit more meaningful than replay.
As I also stated before, personally I’m fine with accepting human error (this is where I was trying to go with my analogy, but apparently failing) as being a constant factor in all officiating—I have to deal with this every time I step on a soccer field, and I will add this is something that WILL NOT change if instant replay of any kind is implemented.
In a local park district soccer league I’m in, if the referee is shown to be not up to standards a complaint can be filed with the league and they will at least review and, if necessary, reprimand/fire the poor officials in question if the offense calls for it. Unfortunately, I’ve yet to see any action by MLB that even marginally approaches this in spite of the sometimes massive amount of coverage poor calls can get. The worst that seems to come from a poor umpire decision is a tv/radio broadcaster making quips about a particular umpire over a particular call for a few seasons following. Otherwise, there is no accountability and the institution of instant replay does not fundamentally change this fact.
Therefore, if we’re going to grab the pitchforks and torches to force some mob-mandated rules changes, let’s fight for honest-to-god quality control rather than a half-measure. Heck, a more objective QC system could also be used as a dry run for in-game instant replay, as any review of MLB umpiring would, by necessity, rely heavily (if not entirely) upon replay. It seems to be win-win, if the unions will sign off…which they unfortunately won’t.
Make more sense?
by MarchHare on Oct 10, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This. Will. Never. Happen.
Replay of everything but ball/strike calls is a far more realistic goal. The umpire’s union has already given way on replay (albeit of a very specific nature), so expanding that to replay of a less-specific nature is not out of the question.
However, expecting a union to immediately and voluntarily give the policing of its members to an outside authority is beyond ridiculous. Especially if said union’s members have had their performance deemed acceptable by their customer(s) for this many years without pressure of this sort.
Your ideas are sound in a vacuum. They’ll never be heard, because the very notion would elicit disbelieving scoffs from all, even the customer they’re meant to protect.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Oct 11, 2009 4:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right.
The umpires seem to want to get things right rather than fight things like this. It’s not “policing” at all — if you had “red flag” replay, all you are asking umpires to do is get the calls right.
Two challenges per team per game — and in most games you wouldn’t see any used — seems reasonable to me. Everything EXCEPT ball/strike calls should be subject to review.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 11, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I agree with you almost completely
I would highlight one statement you made though:
“Especially if said union’s members have had their performance deemed acceptable by their customer(s) for this many years without pressure of this sort.”
Nothing I said will ever be in place without a call to action from the fans/media/etc. However, steroid testing seemed unlikely to ever happen ten years ago, but the public outcry had a system in place by 2005. What I said could happen by the same sort of outcry, but you’re right that it is probably unlikely (especially on as quick a timeframe as the steroid changes came about). Hell, umpires don’t even have an age limit I’m aware of and that seems like an obvious rule to already be in place.
The one thing I disagree with you (and Al, in his similar statement from his reply) is that “Replay of everything but ball/strike calls is a far more realistic goal.” Do you honestly think the union would agree to something so vague? The NFL has a specific list of reviewable calls. To expect the umpire’s union to accept anything less is no less a pipedream than what I proposed. That aside, I will freely admit that my only real rebuttal to what you said is largely semantic :)
by MarchHare on Oct 11, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
… I said “exclude ball/strike calls” because I think that’s pretty obvious; it would slow down games tremendously. I’m pretty sure that any agreement for the “red flag” for managers would have to include a specific list of what is reviewable and what isn’t.
They can start with fair/foul, out/safe, catch/trap. They’d also have to decide whether the currrent HR reviews would come under this system or be separate.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 11, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3-0 Dodgers top 3rd
Looking good
"Brant Brown...DROPS THE BALL!!!!"
by cubswgnrocks on Oct 10, 2009 5:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not quite time yet, but soon, but soon
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
by eths on Oct 10, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man
sure is dead in here. Over on VEB they are saying the fans aren’t waving towels, they are white flags…
by LT on Oct 10, 2009 6:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
dont the fans know
that the towels while mess up the outfielders
"hey
by jesus christos on Oct 10, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
towels flags will mess up the outfielders, i should say
"hey
by jesus christos on Oct 10, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too soon?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 6:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think your prognosis is correct, doctor.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope the fat lady
is clearing her throat
by LT on Oct 10, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like this thread. Very funny :-)
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that you mention it, you can never get too much of this:
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Despite Scully's call
I kind of hope he was NOT wearing a cup.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Oct 10, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IT'S HAPPENING?!?!?!?!?
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey now - that's kinda hitting below the belt...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In more ways that one.
P.S.: Sorry, need to change my sig line after Wisconsin’s loss today. Congrats to Ohio State.
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well if you're slightly dyslexic, you could always say it was a tie!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, and we won in spite of Pryor, not because of him.
Thankfully the defense and special teams showed up today.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pryor? That name sounds familiar. I wonder why.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
......
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
....or this....
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I don't know about the best
but they’re definitely the Quietest Fans In Baseball.™
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 6:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ha ha. Good one.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe that that crazy looney Padilla is doing such a good job.
Maybe because Brenly is calling this game is having an effect on the Cardinal hitters? Isn’t that why they left the bags loaded in the first?
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 6:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's The Brenly Effect©
It can’t be quantified.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stockton brings up the Cubs getting swept last year
Brenly remains silent
"Brant Brown...DROPS THE BALL!!!!"
by cubswgnrocks on Oct 10, 2009 6:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I noticed that.
3 outs for the Cards. Padilla is masterful. Cards are pathetic. Poor St. Louis.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
obligitory snap throw by molina
"hey
by jesus christos on Oct 10, 2009 6:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Brendan Ryan looks really Old-Timey.
Like you might see him in a picture of players in the early twentieth century.
I kinda dig that look. It’s O.G.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 6:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Brendan Ryan can't field a grounder. Did anyone see any white towels around?
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 6:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wanna get high?
Visit FanIQ.com for sports news, bloggings, polls, and more!
by MrNFL on Oct 10, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Padilla is even crazier than Z.
From Wikipedia:
Padilla caused a controversy in Chicago when he twice hit White Sox catcher A. J. Pierzynski, and later in the season again caused a benches-clearing brawl against the Angels when he repeatedly threw at Angels batters, showing particular interest in slugger Vladimir Guerrero. In September 2007 Padilla hit Oakland Athletics outfielder Nick Swisher after two pitches earlier in the plate appearances were inside that almost hit Swisher. Swisher then charged the mound starting a brawl and resulting in both players getting ejected.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The baseball team from St. Louis is a really mickey mouse team....
I hope they score some runs to make this game interesting. They are looking pathetic.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 6:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Looking good!!!!!!
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 7:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Smolzy is looking good. Why didn't TLR let him start tonight?
Score might have been tied still.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 7:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You know, if Holliday loses on in the lights tonight, will they still blame it on the white towels the fans are twirling?
They will do anything to say something besides the truth. And the truth is the Dodgers are the better team.
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 7:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
RBI for Ramirez
5-0. The end is near…
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 7:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dodgers lead, 5-0!!!!!
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 7:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Stockton says it's been a "frustrating night" for the Cardinals.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
slam range
that involves clogging the bases though…
"hey
by jesus christos on Oct 10, 2009 7:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
over at the other place
they are now saying the umps are on the take. Very surprising from the best fans in baseball©
by LT on Oct 10, 2009 7:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Strange that the best fans in baseball© can't afford a few umpires, if you know what I mean...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe yankees fans can lend them a few
"hey
by jesus christos on Oct 10, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, the Yankees have the best umpires in baseball (C).
They were on display last night.
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
best umps you can buy
the Steinbrenner way continues
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Florida/LSU on one tv, Iowa/Michigan on the other, Scully calling a Cardinals loss...
…kibitizing here on BCB and shoving some Art’s deep dish pizza down my throat. Ahhhh, life is good.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 7:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
it don't get no better
except if it was Brenly calling a Cubs win
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You haven't offered us any slices. Just sayin'.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry - didn't think anyone else would like asparagus and anchovies...
Just kidding – it’s pepperoni and sausage.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds good to me
I wish someone would open a Chicago style pizza place here in Nashville. I had to settle for a Papa Johns since I wanted delivery.
by LT on Oct 10, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my brother used to live in Smyrna
and there was a place there that’s no longer there that tried hard to do something like a deep dish .. it didn’t work
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it definitely don't get better then this
especially when Frank Caliendo isn’t all over the place.
Now it’s George Lopez. Gak
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Vin Scully calls that a "baserunning rock"
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 7:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
WTF was Molina doing? I thought for a moment that Cedeno was on 2nd base.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 7:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Onedec!
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jim Thome time
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ned Colletti, the Dodgers GM is really good.
He is/was a Cubs fan, from Franklin Park, IL, and worked for the Cubs front office as his first job in the MLB. He’s done a great job with the Dodgers.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 7:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Too soon?
btw, I never realized how therapeutic typing “Too soon?” was. Try it – you’ll feel better…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 7:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Watching Tony LaRussa whine
at this point in the game and the series makes the Cubs’ disappearance much more tolerable
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Five more outs.
Julio Lugo walks.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 7:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Please don't say "Five more outs."
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 10, 2009 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Four More Outs.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No worries.
Four more outs.
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The last time I counted down outs was in 2003.
NLCS.
Game 6.
Never again.
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 10, 2009 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too.
With the Cardinals, I can make an exception.
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ditto
mrs cubnational finally saw what it’s like to be a Cubs fan .. and she’s never let me forget it
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I took my whole family. I said: "We're going to see HISTORY tonight!"
What an idiot I was…
The tears running down my 10-year old daughter’s face at the end was enough for this dad…
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 10, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad memories rushing into my head.
Need to concentrate on this game only before the demons of 2003 attack me.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was close to tears when that game ended
a really, really, really BAD feeling deep down
my wife laughed at me and what she saw on TV
i regret what i did afterwards, but I gently and firmly pushed her off the couch away from me .. and told her she just didn’t know what this meant..
we are still, however, happily married
fortunately, she now does ..
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In some states, that would have been cause for a divorce.
No questions asked. You get the house.
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 10, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i know
but later that night she figured it out, even though to this day, she loves to bring it up at inopportune moments saying, “See, Alou is gone. But I’m still here.”
Ugh. Women !
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My wife still does not understand the pain I felt that night.
It took months for it to go. Hell, why am I lying. The pain is still there somewhere.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who was it that said: "Women; can't live with 'em. Can't kill 'em."
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 10, 2009 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al Bundy said
Women, you can’t live with them- the end
by LT on Oct 10, 2009 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al Bundy is my kinda dude.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Women: Can't live with 'em. Pass the beer nuts."
Thank you, Norm Peterson
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Oct 10, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Norm: It's a 'dog eat dog' world and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear...
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 11, 2009 7:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was Bill Murray in Mad Dog and Glory
Love that picture. Takes place in Chicago. He plays a gangster who’s a Sox fan.
by patches23 on Oct 10, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i still count outs
except now i include how many outs the cubs have to make as well
I heart the riot. (www.riotshirts.com)
by RIOTSHIRTS.com on Oct 10, 2009 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Torre should bring Broxton in and put Sherril in the outfield... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 7:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
works for me
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah, if the Red Sox could only fold tommorrow
balance would be restored to the force
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Meanwhile Iowa is up 10-7. Sue and Zeke ought to be happy!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 7:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I am! Go Hawkeyes!
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 10, 2009 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the enemy of my enemy is my friend, right? ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My second favorite team is whoever is playing um...
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 10, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand completely - next week is the only time you'll see me cheering for USC this year
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Next week I root for Delaware State.
Tough one for the blue balls at the jail next week…
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 10, 2009 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even though we lost (again, congrats Ken),
I congratulate you too Zeke on Michigan State’s win over Illinois.
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, but to be fair, the Illini are a really bad team this year...
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 10, 2009 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, and we don't play them.
But a win is a win is a win.
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pujols does not look like a happy man...
GoCubsGo
by MinnesotaFan on Oct 10, 2009 7:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
SWING
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
dang
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on boys get that out
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
and Holliday goes down like the common dog!
yeeee hah baby
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Poor Matt. I wish him well in St. Louis. I'm afraid he'll be run out of town by the fans.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stockton being wistful: "What could have been if Matt Holliday hung on to that fly ball"?
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 7:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"What might have been if only the Cardinals had scored more runs than the Dodgers in each game. Sigh."
Stockton is an idiot.
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 10, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"What might have been if only Stockton had passed that civil service exam. Sigh."
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HA HA!!!!
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ethier.
For real.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 7:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Come on you Predator stand in
smack one down the line
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 7:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
heh heh heh
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 8:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
lemme try that again
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was that deadbird hit by a white towel?
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, but it will be picked up off the road in one..."
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 10, 2009 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes .... yessss ...
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
T.O. is also distracted by white towels.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow - Phil Cuzzi just called that foul!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for reminding of that HR Bob
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 8:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
One out!
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 8:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i down. two more to go.....
though i kinda feel bad for my nephews who live in st. louis are cards fans… but now they’ll know how it feels… cuz they have certainly given me enough sh** about the cubs….
GoCubsGo
by MinnesotaFan on Oct 10, 2009 8:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm wondering if I should be hoping for a 3-run rally that just falls short.
Or if I should just hope for DeRo hitting into a double play.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 8:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
dero is due
for the dp
I heart the riot. (www.riotshirts.com)
by RIOTSHIRTS.com on Oct 10, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would have been a DP but Molina stole second on defensive indifference.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 10, 2009 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ugh - i curse indifference
I heart the riot. (www.riotshirts.com)
by RIOTSHIRTS.com on Oct 10, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
two down... cards down to their last out....
GoCubsGo
by MinnesotaFan on Oct 10, 2009 8:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Time to cue up Billy Murray...
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 10, 2009 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ankiel will be getting the last out....
GoCubsGo
by MinnesotaFan on Oct 10, 2009 8:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 8:10 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
That's all I needed to see
Good night, kids. Sleep well.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Oct 10, 2009 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Say goodnight, Gracie.
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 10, 2009 8:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Brewers would've gotten swept, too.
It’s accurate.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm recommending this turn green.
A Brewers’ knock is never out of season.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Oct 10, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cards die.....................................
GoCubsGo
by MinnesotaFan on Oct 10, 2009 8:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you realize the Cardinals have never won in Worf Jr.'s lifetime???
I hope Worf reads this and reminds Mrs. Worf of this fact nightly… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 8:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you realize the Cardinals have never won a playoff game in Jr's lifetime ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Oct 10, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
neither have the cubs
lets change that next year!
"hey
by jesus christos on Oct 10, 2009 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
who sucks now
I heart the riot. (www.riotshirts.com)
by RIOTSHIRTS.com on Oct 10, 2009 8:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sure hope Sedgwick's in Chicago is getting the champagne out.
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 8:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's try that again.
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
irony...sweet irony!
"I f***ing hate the Eagles, man!" - The Dude
by teacher tom on Oct 10, 2009 8:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I blame Bob Brenly and DeRo. They've been in the ballpark for each of the last 3 years of a firs round sweep!
It’s THEIR fault…
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 10, 2009 8:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
firs=first
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 10, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wonder what happens with the players
the Cards traded for DeRo & Holliday ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Oct 10, 2009 8:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Come on Hawkeyes!
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 10, 2009 8:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
TD Hawkeyes!!
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Oct 10, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've just spent a wonderful evening
In VEB. I actually was only accused of trolling once—a lot less than I thought. I get the impression the Cards—or at least their fans—wouldn’t be opposed to sending DeRo back to us. I’m having trouble believing the NL central can actually be this bad against the west, specifically the Dodgers. Wow, just wow. Well, it was nice seeing our magical season last year wasn’t the only one ended by the Dodgers. The similarities between our season last year and the season the Cardinals just finished are pretty frightening. Hopefully, it’ll be our turn again next year.
"There is no tomorrow for you, and that makes you very dangerous people."--Jimmy McGinty (Gene Hackman) The Replacements
Time is an illusion--lunch time doubly so.
by snowyman28 on Oct 10, 2009 8:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Clarification?
“Hopefully, we’ll be the ones who end the NL West drought next year.”?
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
I’ve been up all night over here and probably a little loopy. I simply meant that we should be the ones to beat the NL west rep next year—it that is indeed who we face in the first round. Overly optimistic…I think not.
"There is no tomorrow for you, and that makes you very dangerous people."--Jimmy McGinty (Gene Hackman) The Replacements
Time is an illusion--lunch time doubly so.
by snowyman28 on Oct 10, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The dodgers are built
To win a 5 game series……no doubt in a short series they are damn near impossible to beat. So they try to win in 5, the only problem with that is in a 7 game series, they got to sweep 4 games and that’s real hard. They get that quick hit, and can’t withstand the inevitable counterpunch…..at least that’s my 2 cents worth
by nmcubsfan on Oct 10, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I had to guess
I’d say that NM in the username stood for Nuevo Mexico. What’s yer ten?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Oct 11, 2009 4:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a great night of watching baseball
Couldn’t happen to a better group of fans. The irony is rich.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Oct 10, 2009 8:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
F-ING WISCONSIN!
I hate Bret Bilema. He is such a horrible coach. Down by 15 in the beginning of the third, he decides to kick a field goal at the 35ish, rather than going for the first. Why does this matter? Because being down by 15 or being down by 12 still requires TWO FULL SCORES. He is such a dipshit. Not to mention he’s “in charge” of special teams. I hate you Bret.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Oct 10, 2009 8:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I say this to help assuage your anger.
Let’s right the ship against Iowa next week.
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm cheering for Iowa right now.
And then we destroy them next week for Homecoming.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Oct 10, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like a good plan
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2009 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just enjoy
the Cardinals losing…
Anything else is gravy, dp.
You didn’t think Wisc. was going to win the NAtional Championship this year anyway, did you?
by The E-Man on Oct 10, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I think this team sucks.
I’d be happy with 8 wins this year.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Oct 10, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Brooks
Bollinger can go back to Grad School?
Did I spell his name right?
by The E-Man on Oct 10, 2009 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!!!!
Somehow – after all of the great “moves” the Cards made, their “great” regular season in 2009, ended like ours in 2008.
HA!!!
Misery Loves Cardinals company!
by The E-Man on Oct 10, 2009 8:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It is the Stockton Effect...
The central is 0-9 in playoff games announced by Stockton….
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Oct 10, 2009 9:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
or should I say
the Stockton Syndrome.
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Oct 10, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It began in Stockholm...
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 11, 2009 7:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
by eths on Oct 11, 2009 1:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Glad we could help!
Dodger fan here (and longtimefriend to many Cubs fans). Glad we could make the Cardinals miserable for you. ;-) Maybe they’ll self-destruct now. Or blame their long off-season on people waving towels, which distracted them from making good personnel moves.
Anyway, you’re welcome!
Also wanted to say: Zevkalman, I dig your profile picture. ;-)
The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".
by underdog on Oct 11, 2009 1:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And when I say "you're welcome"
I should admit that I actually had nothing to do with it myself, I was home watching the games and drinking beer. But still…
The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".
by underdog on Oct 11, 2009 1:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey underdog, thanks for coming on by. It was fun watching the Dodgers play this series.
And I dig your profile picture also!
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Oct 11, 2009 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Found at VEB
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
by eths on Oct 11, 2009 1:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They almost look human
Give ’em the Voight-Kampff test, I say!
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Oct 11, 2009 4:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's gonna leave a mark! Maybe two...
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 11, 2009 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Replay: Only One Challenge Per Team
That would mean there would be only be two total at a maximum per game. I know there wouldn’t be any frivolous challenges early in the game that way. I don’t know what a good penalty would be for challenges not upheld. Let it be for fair-foul, catch-no catch, and home run-no home run calls. I would leave ball-strike calls and out-safe calls on the bases alone.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Oct 11, 2009 7:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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