Maybe no one cares, but what kind of umpire call was THAT last night?
I really could care less about postseason baseball play this year for obvious reasons. When the Cubs folded their tent a week ago, that was it for me. Just because the Cards have been choking, I decided to watch the game last night between NY and Minnesota. Because there's not a single sports team east of Baltimore that I remotely care for, especially the Yankees, I was rooting for the Twinkies.
And then THAT happened. I was absolutely stunned. Not one but TWO umpires on that line. I can see the one behind the back up missing it. The one RIGHT on top of it, one Phil Cuzzi, blew this so badly my half blinded saintly mom wouldn't have missed it. The picture shows just after landing within the foul line with the little puff of dirt showing the contact point .. and as it was on the bounce back up. Outstanding work by Getty.
That hit would have put Joe Mauer on first base at minimum with no outs and would have, with the three singles in a row after wards by the Twinks, brought him around to break the tie. I have no dog in the hunt, but boy does that call really have to go down as one of the worst of all time. And there was no provision for an appeal to video review of any of this last night? Unbelievable.
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A few things-
It would have been ruled a ground rule double since it bounced into the stands. It had also made contact with the OF’s mitt in fair territory, the ump managed to miss that as well.
Mauer reached on a single a pitch or two after this – so his is one of the three singles you cite. Obviously, he did not make it in. But, had he been given the double, maybe he would have. I saw on another thread the next hit (single to right) would not have made it through as Tex was on the bag holding Mauer on. He would have been in position if Mauer was on second. I don’t know – you can’t say definitively one way or another. No way to know where he would have been playing, if he would have gotten to it, would he have made the same pitches, would Mauer be stealing the signs, etc.
How about just getting the what should have been an easy call right in the first place and let the game play out? There has been a rash of bad umpiring in baseball, and college and pro fb has also had a less than exemplary fall. This is very frustrating as a fan – I really want the players to decide the game.
I don’t begrudge human error on a close call. This guy was in postion looking right down the line and the ball was in by 6-8". It was just obvious, and in the 11th inning of a playoff game. Inexcusable.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Oct 10, 2009 9:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You make good points
And yes, it was fair by a good foot, in my opinion.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Oct 10, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Second year in a row
Like it really mattered in game 2, but the ball landed in that exact spot in the Cubs series against Dodgers and was called foul.
I highly doubt the team was going to come back that night, but it was still a bad call.
But regardless, people argue that there shouldn’t be instant replay at all in baseball. When you make lousy calls like this, how can you really argue against that point.
by ak123 on Oct 10, 2009 9:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In my opinion, if there WAS instant replay
The umps would become lazy because they’ll be thinking “ohh we can just look at the replay if I blow this call.” Besides, a call like this happens only once a year.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Oct 10, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that's my point
A call like that should never happen. And these sort of calls have occured during important game-changing moments.
Look back at the Rockies/Padres Game #163 in 2007. Another bad call that sent one team home and another to the World Series.
I used to not be an advocate for Instant Replay, but if they don’t hire better umpires, then this has to be reviewed more seriously. I mean they did have to add it for Home-Run calls because of mistakes.
by ak123 on Oct 10, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isnt this the reason that MLB has the addtional umps down the lines?
….you have to wonder if this was an old school cover Cuzzi’s ass call by the ump down the line. I mean how could both guys miss it?
by JB 23 on Oct 10, 2009 9:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I care.
Officiating is always going to be the source of controversy though. What burns me up inside is how the Twins had the bases loaded and nobody out and they still failed to score. Cubesque, circa August 2009.
by chilango2 on Oct 10, 2009 10:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bad.
It was a bad call.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 10, 2009 10:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Reminds me of the phantom foul ball
in the Cubs/Cards series in September of ’03 that enraged Alou and sent Six-Finger Tony into a chest-bumping tirade against the umpire. Except that one kicked up white dust, which should be easier to see. This one was still really awful, though.
It’s the Yankees’ year, I’m thinking.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 10:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Even though my logical side agrees with you
my emotional side rages at the notion that the most expensive team gets to win it all.
by chilango2 on Oct 10, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was at that game - -
At the time, I joked that Alfonseca should have just gone through with it and tackled the umpire. His career was pretty much over at that point anyway, and he maybe could have parlayed the moment into regaining the hearts of Cubs fans everywhere and he could have opened a pub in Wrigleyville called Six-Finger’s and put a picture of the tackle behind the bar.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Oct 16, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kept the Twins radio feed on throughout the post-game coverage
and at one point, they played the comments made by the crew chief (Tim Tschida). The agony in his voice was unmistakable. The only defense he put up – and it really wasn’t much of a defense – is that the outfield line assignments are new/different for the umps. They don’t do that during the regular season, so they always spend time going over coverage responsibilities.
But to his credit, Tschida didn’t hide behind that – he just stated it matter-of-factly and moved on. He also said the crew got together after the game and reviewed the tape and they all realized they had screwed up. He said Phil Cuzzi (the ump who blew it) was back in the locker room and just felt terrible. Tschida (the crew chief) feels terrible – he’s been in that position before and it’s this ugly feeling that just doesn’t go away.
Anyway, listening to him made me put away the torch and pitchfork. It still doesn’t excuse or explain the incompetence – I don’t think anything can. But it was good to hear the person in charge step up and face the music.
By the way, adding to Tschida’s agony no doubt, at least on a sub-conscious level, is the fact that he’s a St. Paul native. Man, talk about inner conflict…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 10:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tschida's interview
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Oct 10, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll have more to say about this in the game preview thread.
But it’s time to have replay in baseball.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 10, 2009 10:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Numbers may not lie, but they don’t tell the whole truth (and nothing but the truth), either. -- Doug Glanville
by leothelip on Oct 10, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 10, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or fire some umpires
I don’t think it’s a harsh thing to say if some of these guys can’t do an adequate job. They are making a salary to pay attention to a baseball game.
by ak123 on Oct 10, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if you can get this past the union
accountability for blown calls or consistently bad judgement. Why should Cuzzi work any playoff game again this year, or any regular game next season?
When these guys make egregious errors like Cuzzi did last night they shouldn’t step foot on a field again.
by JFCubFan on Oct 10, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't want it on every play
That would make the games take WAY too long, and would be pretty obnoxious.
However, I would definitely be in favor of a certain ammount of “challenges” for each team, whether they be on HR’s, foul balls, plays at the bases or strike calls.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 11, 2009 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strike calls is a big no in my opinion
There’s really no way to determine if the pitch was a strike, and every ump has his own unique strike zone, which is the same for both teams.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Oct 11, 2009 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why should each umpire's personal strike zone matter in such a situation?
There is actually a rulebook strikezone that should be enforced in the event of a challenge.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 11, 2009 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True enough.
I think I’d still exclude balls & strikes from a list of possible challenges. Why? I dunno. For this question, I think I’d just have to say “because”.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 12, 2009 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Oct 12, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because it'd make games take 6 hours?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 12, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not if you limited it to two challenges per game.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 12, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then why not allow it?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 12, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you & I agree here.
Right?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 12, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the most part, but . . .
If you keep the limit, why not allow balls & strikes? Most managers wouldn’t want to use them up on those, anyway.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 12, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two challenges would be fair
and called strikes should be exempt, but swinging strikes could be challenged.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 12, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean check swings?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 12, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 12, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
Some missed calls are pretty costly.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 12, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like last night's?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 12, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or that Brewers/Cubs game earlier this year
With Jake Fox
by vivaelpujols on Oct 12, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Borderline at best
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 12, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or the infamous
Strike 3 call on MB in early April.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Oct 12, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree here.
It’s just an oddity about baseball… a fallacy that we’ve all come to accept – there simply is no metaphysical certainty about what is a “Strike” and what is a “ball”. It is what the umpire says it is.
If you could throw a challenge flag for strikes and balls, it would always be used in the 9th inning (or in some other late-inning huge spot), in order to register a backwards K on a strike at the letters. Meanwhile, the offensive team would challenge every time someone was called out on strikes in a huge spot, in hopes that it was a “Glavine strike” a couple inches off the plate. It would alter the game in ways that I don’t think we really want.
That said, replay for “dead ball” situations seems to work OK.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Oct 16, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
An ump is not entitled to his own strike zone
Slight variations are to be expected, but there are more than slight variations. I had hoped that the league would be able to find a way to track an umpire’s strike zone and grade him on it. That would go a long way to eliminating the variations we see.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 12, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's an idea for replay
to prevent frivolous challenges, allow the opposing manager to ‘rule out’ one of the bench players for the rest of the game if the call is proven correct. just a thought.
by tim815 on Oct 16, 2009 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing about it is
On a fair/foul call, if that ball doesn’t go into the stands, is called foul, and everyone stops, then they review it and see it was fair, it would be a controversy on where they would put the runners. There will always be something.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Oct 10, 2009 11:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That would be up to the umpire's discretion.
Which they have by the rule book.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 10, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder why the third base coach didn't see the play
The announcers said the play couldn’t be seen from the dugout, but it’s hard to believe the third base coach couldn’t see it. I was very surprised he wasn’t out there raising hell afterward.
And does anyone know what the umpired protocol is in that situation? On the replay, it looked like the third base umpire was right on the line watching the play. If he’d seen that the ball was fair would he have been able to overrule the left field ump, or does he have to keep quiet unless asked?
by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Oct 10, 2009 11:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The 3B umpire might have called for an umpire conference in that situation.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 10, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He must not have seen it then
Or else he didn’t know he could call a conference. Either way, it was very shoddy work.
by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Oct 10, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That wasn't a bad call
That was no call for some sorta reason. I would guess a paid off umpire because I cannot be convinced his fixed eyes on that play didn’t see it! Does Bud Selig wanna see the Yankees or Red Sox in the World Series that bad? I’m getting sick of my favorite sport more every day.
I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
by cubsluver22 on Oct 10, 2009 3:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
STILL CAN'T FIGURE
out how they got it so wrong . ( Since the L/F ump was so close ) . Had that occured at the Metro Dome Twin’s fans would have been outraged !!
by cubs north on Oct 10, 2009 11:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe they would have trashed and burned it afterwards
THAT would be real civic improvement.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 11, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And what do you think about Phillies/Rockies
Anyone see the bad call in the 9th inning with Utley’s hit?
First the ball looked to have hit him and then I’m sure Helton’s foot was on the base.
Two bad calls in late innings that most definitely could have made a difference in how both games ended.
If we’re not going to have instant replay fine or fire umpires who can’t do their jobs correctly. It is their job and they’re making a nice salary incorrectly doing it.
by ak123 on Oct 12, 2009 8:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
UMPIRES ARE HORRIBLE
MLB allows umpires to get away with their actions and bad umpiring on a daily basis. It is rare when I see an umpire who actually has a consistent strike zone and who umpires fairly. It seems like every game the umpire has a different strike zone for guys like Zambrano and other players they don’t like, including for rookies (like they have to earn it, as I have heard some sportscasters say). Then they give wide outside strike calls for some pitchers.
Umpires need to realize that we don’t come to the park to watch them. They are mostly bad, and they should remember that when they throw guys out for no reason, or rip off their masks when someone dares to question their horrible calls.
Doesn’t MLB watch these games? If this was any other profession, they’d be canned.
by TheGrinch13 on Oct 16, 2009 5:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Would you Promise
If MLB makes a decision to use instant replay in playoff games, Will you try to be a better Baseball fan and show some interest in the playoffs even though your team is not involved with it.
by NYCUB FAN on Oct 26, 2009 11:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And this matters why?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 26, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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