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Is there ANY "reasonable" scenario where a certain former Cubs right fielder is parlayed into Curtis Granderson?

Longtime Tigers beat writer Lynn Henning wrote an article in today's Detroit News speculating on what the Tigers need to do to during the off-season to stay in "contention" in 2010.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20091020/OPINION03/910200396/1004/sports/How-the-Tigers-can-stay-in-contention 

According to Henning, one of the areas of focus is that the Tigers: "... will trade Curtis Granderson for two players. I cannot shake a personal belief that dealing Granderson is their only way out of heading into 2010 with zero chance to win the division. This is said with the understanding that losing your center fielder and leadoff man is not an ideal way to get better."

So my question BCBers is this: Is there a scenario under which the Cubs can be a trading partner with the Tigers and exchange multiple players INCLUDING A FORMER CUBS RIGHT FIELDER WHO SHALL REMAIN NAMELESS and wind up with Chicagoan Curtis Granderson in center field next season?

And who ELSE would the Cubs have to include to make it happen?

As Al would say: "Discuss". 

 

Poll
Will the Tigers and Cubs pull off a trade that includes Curtis Granderson coming to Chicago for (among others) a former Cubs right fielder (who shall remain nameless)?
YES! My god, YES! Git 'er done JIMBO!
69 votes
Maybe. It's worth having the conversation if it doesn't cost the Cubs too much beyond "you know who".
51 votes
Uh, what are you smokin' Zeke? Put away the blinders. It's NEVER gonna happen.
70 votes

190 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Yes, possibly.

[Name redacted] has $21 million left on his deal. Granderson is due $25.75 million (contract guaranteed through 2012, with a $2m buyout for 2013).

If you made the Tigers take Aaron Miles, who is scheduled to make $2.7 million in 2010, that would come pretty close to matching up the dollars (except for the buyout), and the Cubs would get to stretch that (approximately) $21-$23 million over three years, rather than two.

The Cubs might have to throw a prospect pitcher into the mix, say Jeff Stevens. I’d definitely do this deal.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 20, 2009 6:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I wish this deal could happen

but I can’t see it from Detroit’s perspective. Granderson is not a contract to unload. Granderson is a prize with which to buy other cheaper parts.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't agree more...

…getting Granderson for Bradley, Miles and a prospect is wishful thinking at best.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 21, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd welcome

Granderson in a Bradley swap as long as it doesn’t cost us too much more.

Problem becomes what do they spend to keep Reed Johnson as Curits is a platoon only player at this point—can’t hit LHP at all (183/245/239).

by socalbob on Oct 20, 2009 6:04 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I dunno what the Tigers want out of a lead-off center fielder if it’s not Curtis Granderson. He hits (albeit, he trades a bit of AVG could be a bit higher, but his OPS+ is good), he is very fast and covers his position well, and is an above-average defender. His Babip should probably be higher for a guy as fast as he is, and his arm is not too good, but I don’t care about that.

And finally, he’s healthy, unlike that other guy.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 20, 2009 6:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Count me in the camp that wants Granderson, but

note what Henning says later:

I’m probably in a group of one who has this conviction, but every time I play GM I come up with no scenario other than inducing another club to deal handsomely for Granderson. And I believe some club will do just that.

Henning admits she’s the only one who thinks this will happen because other Detroit writers have said they don’t buy into this. In other words, this isn’t even a trade rumor. This is a trade speculation by a writer whose understanding of what it takes to win is suspect. I say that because I can’t come up with a Granderson trade scenario for Detroit that is realistic and makes sense for them winning.

But let’s try.
Henning wants a SS and a reliever – so we have to give them Theriot. I think they probably want Theriot and Marmol in this deal, but let’s say we can talk them down to Theriot and Guzman. Then, we add in the proposed Bradley for Bonderman deal, flipping Bonderman to AZ for Eric Byrnes and Stephen Drew. That gives us a Granderson-Byrnes platoon in CF and a Dome-RJ platoon in RF; plus we’d need a platoon partner for Drew. With all those platoons, we’re eating up bench space, but overall, I think the team is improved:
Dome
Drew
DLee
Rami
Curtis
Sori
Baker
Soto

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2009 6:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Why do we need to platoon Granderson?

Or even Drew? Besides, Byrnes is too old, and I don’t think he can play center anymore, especially with all of his leg injuries.

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Oct 20, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here are the career splits for

Granderson
and
Drew

Byrnes isn’t someone I like; just someone who could be useful to the Cubs if we have to take on a bad contract somewhere.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because Lou doesn't want to hit

Rami-Lee-Sori back-to-back-to-back, but maybe having two lefties at the top of the order would make Lou comfortable with batting Sori 5th and Granderson 6th.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2009 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Drew

intrigues me. I would take him at SS. My friend is a Twins fan, he has heard through the rumor mill the Cubs might have some interest in Nathan. Anyone else hear that? Marmol for Nathan would anyone make that deal. Nathan is 35, that to me is the downside.

by Grockcubs on Oct 20, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ERIC, IS THAT YOU?

do you really think a scrappy mispositioned SS and an inconsistent reliever is all it would take to land Grandersen?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No I think it takes Marmol and Theriot and maybe more

but I was trying to back off that after Al’s Bradley+Miles+one prospect offer.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Free agent or another trade

I hear the Braves might not offer arb to Rafael Soriano…

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ouch.

"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)

Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...

by Zeke on Oct 21, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ot: i'm almost henning is a he

i’m pretty sure i’ve seen a picture of an old guy listed with lynn henning

by toonsterwu on Oct 20, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL. Lynn Henning is a "he", not a she.

But after you wrote that I thought, well, SURE- if they don’t know Lynn, it’s a girl’s name too…

Lynn and I attended MSU in the 1970s. He used to write for the campus newspaper and then the local Lansing paper before moving to Detroit. He’s also written several good gooks about MSU Spartan athletics.

Maybe he needs a more ‘butch’ photo…

"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)

Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...

by Zeke on Oct 21, 2009 5:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

An interesting scenario.

I’d certainly like to see Granderson in centerfield, too. I’m still a little dubious of both Drew and Byrnes, though. Drew appears to be a step down defensively from Theriot and Byrnes hasn’t much played much centerfield for past two or three seasons.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 21, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

YES YES HECK YES

PLEASE GET IT DONE. The only true problem I see, is unless Kosuke’s involved in the deal, which is doubtful, we’re paying a backup centerfielder about 10 million dollars.

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Oct 20, 2009 6:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Kosuke would go back to playing

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

RF

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 20, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ohh no duh

Sorry I wasn’t even thinking. :)

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Oct 20, 2009 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good luck with that

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Oct 20, 2009 6:29 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Dollars (and Miles) be damned

If Detroit will do a Bradley-Granderson swap, straight up – I take that in a heartbeat.

I have to admit though – since I don’t view Bradley as a former Cub quite yet, when I first saw this headline, I was thinking “omg, what’s Sosa saying now? He wants to play again?” ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2009 6:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

LOL. Yeah, I've written that a few times that way and wondered if someone would confuse the two.

Heck, I probably would too. But the title HWSNBN was already taken by another individual…

"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)

Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...

by Zeke on Oct 21, 2009 5:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would love to have Curtis Granderson

I would love to have him badly!

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on Oct 20, 2009 7:03 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You've got some competition...

"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa

by Goodie1969 on Oct 20, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

granny stalker??? ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 20, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What ballpark was this taken in? Seattle?

"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)

Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...

by Zeke on Oct 21, 2009 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, looks like Seattle.

The Alaska Airlines ad on the scoreboard is a dead giveaway.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 21, 2009 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, it was a partial logo, so that's why I asked.

"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)

Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...

by Zeke on Oct 21, 2009 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd guess Seattle, yeah.

I don’t know this person BTW, but Google images came up with this gem.

"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa

by Goodie1969 on Oct 21, 2009 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you

for that Flight of the Choncords interlude. Much well appreciated.

by jerry morales rules on Oct 21, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No prob!

And now back to finding some freakin’ way to get rid of Milton Bradley…

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 21, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

2 cents

I highly doubt Detroit would take on Milton Bradley in any deal. They have too many guys to rotate.

As we’ve discussed here for awhile, I think asking what it would take to land Granderson, though, is worth it, as he could potentially provide a5/6 bat for this club. I am not a huge fan of Granderson as a leadoff hitter, though I imagine if we trade for him, that would be an idea.

Tbh, I still think they hold onto him for a variety of reasons. With Sizemore slated for 2nd base, they can afford to go with Everett at shortstop again, meaning that their main need is in the pen. They have a tiny bit of money to spend and should be able to add someone without subtracting Granderson.

by toonsterwu on Oct 20, 2009 8:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Uh...no.

And to be perfectly candid, while I’ve got other ideas personally, I’m truly expecting Mike Cameron to man center field for the Cubs next season.

by Damen Jackson on Oct 20, 2009 10:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

We could do worse.

I’d be OK with that, for a year.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 21, 2009 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cameron will almost certainly get a 3 year deal this off season

He’s been extremely valuable in his time in Milwaukee.

by Wreckard on Oct 21, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hm, that's the problem.

As good as he’s been defensively, that seems like a long time for a guy his age.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 21, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow...

From your mouth to his agent’s ears.

i find it hard to imagine him seeing a three-year deal. Two, with an option, maybe. But age, and a flat market should lock him in a bit, I believe.

Besides, Cameron and Lou have a real solid relationship. I honestly think Cameron might take a little less to come to Chicago, if Lou asked.

by Damen Jackson on Oct 21, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're underestimating just how good he's been

Last season, Cameron was (using WAR) the 38th most valuable player in all of baseball. The year before that he was the 39th most valuable player. He plays a scarce and valuable position extremely well.

But sure, he’s 36 so a 2 year deal with a 3rd year vesting or club option is a possibility. But there’s no way he gets a one-year deal.

by Wreckard on Oct 21, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are assuming...

… that any and all GM’s will issue contracts strictly based on one statistical measure. You should know that’s not how things work.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 21, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't bother...

Al. It isn’t even worth explaining.

by Damen Jackson on Oct 21, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

.......what?

Where am I saying that they should base their measure on that? I’m just using WAR to illustrate how valuable Cameron has been the last 2 years. There are any number of other statistics that would indicate as much because he’s very good at baseball.

Do you think a good WAR occurs in a vacuum unrelated to other statistical measures or something?

by Wreckard on Oct 21, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never said he's get a one-year deal...

And all that sounds nice till it’s time to write a check. Forgive me if I don’t hold my breath waiting for a Cameron to get a long-term deal.

by Damen Jackson on Oct 21, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know you didn't

Al suggested as much. I’m not sure what you’re getting at here.

by Wreckard on Oct 21, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Before this turns into another stats argument...

…can we all agree that a two-year deal with a club option for a third would be an acceptable arrangement to acquire Mike Cameron? I think it would.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 21, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand where that came from.

Evidently you can’t even mention a player’s stats now without getting a anti-stats reply.

This is why Al gets called anti-intellectual, when a supported argument gets deliberately derailed by a reply like that.

by Wreckard on Oct 21, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your post mentioned one statistical measure...

… as a ranking of (presumably) how valuable that player would be.

What other conclusion was I supposed to draw from your statement?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 21, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe a conclusion that makes sense?

I have literally no idea why you would jump to the conclusion that I was saying that WAR was the be-all, end-all of statistical measures and that obviously all GM’s should or do use. None.

I made a statement of value, and then supported my argument by illustrating that value. Rather than reply to or even trying to understand to the substance of my argument you made a patronizing roll of the eyes and said “There go those stat guys again!”

Either you’re being deliberately divisive about this stuff and trying to create a “Stats guys vs everyone else” narrative in every thread, or you’re just really insecure and defensive about all things statistical. I’m honestly not sure because my post was pretty innocuous.

by Wreckard on Oct 21, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sheesh.

I had no intention of igniting any firestorms here. I asked a simple question — should a GM make a signing based strictly on one statistical measure? That wasn’t intended to be patronizing. I’m sorry you took it that way, because as I think I have shown by my bringing Shawn on board (and yes, he is intending to post soon), I am neither “anti-stats” nor “anti-intellectual”.

I thought my post was, as you say yours was, “pretty innocuous”. Instead of railing at me, you could have answered my question.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 21, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What question?

You told me what I was assuming, and then told me that I should know better.

by Wreckard on Oct 21, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, then let me phrase it in the form of a question.

You posted one statistical measure. Should a GM sign a player strictly based on that? Or, better yet, should those measures serve as a dollar-value ranking (as is done by Fangraphs)?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 21, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No. But the remember that WAR really isn't a single statistic.

It’s an aggregate statistic, comprised of many many individual statistics which represent a player’s defense, offense, and baserunning abilities. $WAR is just an extrapolation of that, based on the going price of a win in the current market.

I would expect that the due diligence that goes on before giving any major league player millions and millions of dollars probably involves a lot of risk management evaluation that no fan or blogger or internet poster would ever have the means or incentive to do.

But, um, sure, if a GM was being held captive by the bad guy from the Saw movies and to torture him he was only allowed to use one single number to evaluate a player, WAR would probably be a good one to use.

by Wreckard on Oct 21, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you kids don't stop, I'm turning this car around...

"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)

Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...

by Zeke on Oct 21, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL on the Saw movies.

But thanks for the explanation.

Do you believe that Mike Cameron is in the top 40 of all major league players? Because if he is, he should be getting paid a lot more than most teams are going to be willing to pay him, and a lot more years than he probably should get based on his age.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 21, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe he has been, yes

….when you take positional value into account (like WAR does). He’s one of the 5 or 6 best center fielders in baseball, which is a pretty tough position to fill – as evidenced by the Cubs in recent years.

Keep in mind Cameron’s last contract came not only following his worst year of his career, but also with him being suspended for stimulant use. I wonder if, without the suspension, he might have gotten a long-term deal like he did with the Mets.

That said, would I sign him? Probably not. While I think he’s valuable and one of the best center fielders in baseball, he’s also 36 years old. I worry about how feasible a 39 year old center fielder would be.

by Wreckard on Oct 21, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wouldn't having a club option...

…for the third year mitigate some of that risk?

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 21, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, this is why...

… I wouldn’t sign him to more than a one-year deal with an option.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 21, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And if he'd do that, sure, I'd do it.

But like I said, I just don’t see him getting less than a 2 years guaranteed deal.

by Wreckard on Oct 21, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just think...

… that the market for free agents this offseason isn’t going to be what a lot of players and agents think it is.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 21, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let me echo on WAR

that it’s just a good quick and dirty way to compare players at a glance. But teams should often prefer players with a lesser WAR projection if the player fits the team better. Johnny Damon is an excellent example. He’s an OF, a LH hitter, a lead-off hitter, a player with a strong WAR history and projection. But he’s a stretch as even a LF nowadays, so we aren’t talking about him at all.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 21, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks.

That was kind of what I was asking, and wondering about Cameron, given his age.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 21, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cameron is a buyer beware guy for sure

because of his age. His defense could fall off the cliff quickly. Also, if his bat speed slows…

That’s why I’d really like Cameron as a 400 – 500 PA player and I’d be willing to overpay to make it happen. If we keep him well rested and use him to keep our other aging OFs well rested, he could be a perfect fit.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 21, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope you're right.

As Al mentions, if the Cubs can keep the contract to a very limited period (a year, ideally), this would be a pretty smart move.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 21, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope...at least not a straight Bradley-for-Granderson trade

If you read the entire article that’s referenced in the fanpost, a couple things stand out.

First, the sportswriter quoted in the fanpost thinks that the Tigers will trade Granderson because of a “personal belief” before going on to add that he’s in a “group of one” in that belief. Using such terms doesn’t make it seem like Granderson is actually available. Second, the sportswriter concludes the article by mentioning that the Tigers are “boxed in by their over-the-top payroll” which means that they would be unlikely to accept an almost equally expensive player, such as Bradley, in exchange for Granderson.

Detroit has a boatload of terrible contracts and Granderson’s isn’t one of them. Granderson is a flawed player (can’t hit lefties, strikes out a lot, not much of an arm) but he gives you decent production while playing a decent centerfield, which is a valuable commodity even at $25m over the next 3 years. Moreover, he’ll be 29-31 years old over the duration of his contract, so it’s reasonable to expect him to play as well as he has over the past few years.

Next year, Detroit is set to pay a combined $65m for the services of Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Guillen, Nate Robertson, Dontrelle Willis, and Jeremy Bonderman. What I don’t understand is why they would trade Granderson, one of their few reasonable contracts, when they already have an overpaid, underperforming right-fielder? If anything, they’d use Granderson as inducement for a trading partner to also take one of those awful contracts.

Detroit has to shed payroll. For a plausible scenario in which the Cubs would give up Bradley and acquire Granderson, the Tigers have to save money. That would mean that, in order to off-load Bradley and get Granderson in return, either a) the Cubs eat most of Bradley’s contract or b) they also take one of Detroit’s bad contracts.

"I'd rather play baseball than eat." - Andy Pafko

by LaddieRenfroe on Oct 21, 2009 3:44 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I will say this: Henning is a good sportswriter. Well respected and fair.

He’s also plugged into the Tigers very well, so if he thinks there’s a possibility of a Granderson trade, then where there’s smoke, you may also find fire. At no time though, did he make a Cubs-Tigers trade connection or a swap of the players mentioned by several folks above.

I was just idly speculating that if the Tigers are looking to deal, then I hope Hendry and Dombrowski are on a “calling circle” plan with (airtime carrier name redacted).

(Sorry Al, couldn’t resist… ;)

"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)

Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...

by Zeke on Oct 21, 2009 6:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope they're talking too.

And I think Granderson meets our team needs well enough that I hope Jim Hendry would be willing to give up Theriot, Marmol, and more to get it done.

But I’m not setting my hopes on it.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 21, 2009 6:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Henning

I’ve heard the name before but I’m not really familiar with his work. It’s nice that Henning makes clear that he’s speculating – a lot of sportswriters won’t always be so forthright. And trading Granderson isn’t that far-fetched as he’s not cheap anymore but is about the only one among the expensive Tiger contracts that could fetch a good return. That said, it’s hard to see Dombrowski thinking “Milton!” when pondering what he could get in exchange for Granderson.

And I’m with almost everyone else on one point – I’d be ecstatic if the Cubs could somehow acquire Curtis Granderson.

"I'd rather play baseball than eat." - Andy Pafko

by LaddieRenfroe on Oct 21, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with your assessment.

Granderson is not a player the Tigers are looking to unload, especially with him only owed $5.5M in 2010. Now if we’re discusing using Granderson’s reasonable 2010 contract and selling high on him to offload a rugged contract and get back cost controlled talent? That’s something I won’t be surprised to see.

I don’t see any way the Tigers take {HIM} in a 1 for 1 without the Cubs eating the entire contract and adding a player or players like Stevens.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Oct 21, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather watch the game-by-game...

7-week collapse of the 1969 club rather than the 2003 playoffs.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Oct 21, 2009 5:50 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, the first question I would like to ask is...

…if the Tigers traded Curtis Granderson to the Cubs under any circumstances, who would play centerfield for them next season? This is a team that came within a game of winning their division and that I think still has a pretty strong 1-3 in their starting rotation (Verlander, Jackson, Porcello).

So I would presume they consider themselves division contenders as is. I notice on their depth chart that they have a strapping young lad named Wiliken Ramirez in centerfield under Granderson. He hit very well in a grand total of 11 ABs this season – would he be considered for a starting role?

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 21, 2009 9:39 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's a good question. I guess it all depends on either the

need to reduce payroll or whether they believe Granderson has peaked and selling his cost effective 2010 brings max value. I guess both also could come into play.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Oct 21, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No.

How does Bradley solve any problems for the Tigers? How does it make them a better team, given that it creates more problems than it solves (now you have 2 right fielders and no center fielder, and owe more money – something the Tigers are going to have a hard time with next year due to reckless spending)?

The young, cost-controlled Granderson would fetch much, much, much more on the open market than an expensive right fielder with baggage.

And frankly I think it’s hilarious that so many Cubs fans here are drooling at the possibility of adding a guy who is basically an offensive carbon copy of Alfonso Soriano, complete with an awful 2009 season.

by Wreckard on Oct 21, 2009 9:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

More likely...

… if the Tigers want to get rid of Ordonez’s or Willis’ contracts, that might make a Bradley deal possible.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 21, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't...

While — assuming Detroit would eat a boatload of cash — Ordonez fits the bill as a Bradley replacement, that 2011 option is spooky. I would stay very downstream from Detroit this offseason.

by Damen Jackson on Oct 21, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed 100 percent and rec'd

on the “stay very downstream from Detroit” statement.

by chilango2 on Oct 21, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would you rather eat all of Bradley's contract?

I wouldn’t. I presume it would be relatively easy to put backup OF in for enough starts so that 2011 Ordonez option would not vest.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 21, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see Detroit having the correct parts to fit the Cubs puzzle.

And all I want for Xmas is for [name redacted] to find a new team who’ll pay the remainder of his contract.

by chilango2 on Oct 21, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think there are better...

matches to trade with right now than Detroit. I want no part of that Ordonez situation with that option hanging out there.

by Damen Jackson on Oct 21, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Toledo? Really?

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Oct 21, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Carbon copy of Soriano?

I realize you said offensive, but CG is no copy. He plays defense, in Centerfield no less. He’s 5 years younger, will make $12.5M less in 2010, has been healthy, and most important to Lou & Jim, bats with power left handed.

I agree he’s similar in that he’s a poor leadoff batter and struggles with LH pitching. I wouldn’t call his 2009 awful. In fact, I’d say Granderson is better compared to Dome. 4 years younger, plays CF, can hit for power, can steal bases, finally equals Dome’s contract in cost in 2012.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Oct 21, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I did say offensive.

Obviously he’s younger, cheaper, and a better defender. But their offensive statistics are eerily similar.

Now, personally I don’t mind that – I think that Soriano is a valuable player offensively (excluding 2009) as is Granderson (somewhat excluding 2009). But given that Soriano is so derided around here I just found it ironic.

by Wreckard on Oct 21, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For my part,

as a Granderson-drooler, I’m not a Soriano-derider, I don’t think, absent a little frustration here and there over his contract.

The big deal, though, is that Granderson’s offensive profile is a lot easier to appreciate when it comes from a CF and still has full use of the speed game.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 21, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Points definitely taken.

I would reiterate that, when considering these trades, we really need to factor in Detroit’s perspective.

Now, regarding a Soriano-Granderson comparision, don’t you think Granderson is due for a bounceback? He also plays a great centerfield (when healthy) and would enable the Cubs to move Kosuke back to right field where he has much higher value.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 21, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I absolutely don't mean to say I don't want Granderson

He’s a talented ballplayer, a good defender, and is fun to watch. I just don’t find a Bradley for Granderson trade feasible. For that matter, I’m not sure how the Tigers and Cubs would be able to match up at all on a trade of that scale; it would almost certainly mean giving up guys that we wouldn’t want to be giving up – someone like Castro, Marmol, or Soto.

As far as a bounceback: he’s definitely a good candidate. His BABIP (sorry more stats, I know, I know) was 50 points lower last season than his career, so he may have enountered some bad luck. But that also might be from his decreased ground ball percentage and increases in his fly ball and infield fly ball rates. It doesn’t matter how fast you are when you’re hitting infield pop-ups 15% of the time.

by Wreckard on Oct 21, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, a Bradley for Granderson deal...

…strikes me as too good to be true as well – especially as no one seems to be screaming an obvious answer to my question above as to who would replace Curtis in centerfield for the Tigers.

Now if the Cubs could get him by throwing in Marmol, well, I think that would be worth considering, though I doubt Jim Hendry would agree. He’d probably get torn apart in the press for making a deal like that, too.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 21, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK. Let's deal Marmol.

Who’s going to replace him? Resign Kevin Gregg? My bestest buddy Aaron Heilman? Overpay for Jose Valverde?

by chilango2 on Oct 21, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly?

I’d have no problem if the Cubs dangled both Marmol and Soto this off-season, and see what they can get back. And yes, I would trade him in a package for Granderson.

And besides, I happen to like Jose Valverde. He’s a photographer’s wet dream.

by Damen Jackson on Oct 21, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And, all his annoying ritualistic tics aside, a damn good pitcher.

I’d imagine his price tag will be quite high, though.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 21, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah,

but I’d still look into it.

by Damen Jackson on Oct 21, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not that worried about it...

Eventually Jeff Samardzija is going to need to $@#!, or get off the pot. But we’re talking middle relievers here. I feel like you can pull a veteran off the heap fairly easily if you need to, and at least start the season that way.

by Damen Jackson on Oct 21, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are going to be plenty of decent closers out as free agents.

And we could do worse than letting Grabow try it and have Marshall and Gaub as the lefties in the ’pen.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 21, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Marmol is one of the trade pieces we have

who is both strongly marketable and easily replaceable. That’s a situation that almost screams out for a trade.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 21, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I'm saying consider it.

You’ve got to give up quality to get quality and it all comes down to how much you value a closer – especially a largely unproven one like Marmol who struggled mightily with his control this season. Honestly, I really can’t think of anyone on the Cubs right now who would be an obvious choice to replace Carlos. But I’ve got to believe something could be worked out.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 21, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 21, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No. Not really.

Marmol and [name redacted] for Adam Lind. GET IT DONE JIMBO!!!!

by chilango2 on Oct 21, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

FYI: Tigers fans are discussing...

…Henning’s article here, and I’ve taken the liberty of inviting them to this discussion.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 21, 2009 11:36 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Apparently some on the Tigers' blog don't think as much of Lynn Henning as I do (and I'm a Tigers fan too).

Oh, well. It will be interesting to see what transpires. Hot Stove speculation.

Gotta love it!

"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)

Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...

by Zeke on Oct 21, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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