Bleed Cubbie Blue: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Around SBN: Has Kentucky Improved Since the Non-Conference Season?

More "Hot Stove" speculation: Aroldis Chapman as a Cub?

Back in July, Aroldis Chapman (21), a Cuban considered by many scouts to be the best left-handed pitching prospect in the world, defected from the Cuban national team and is currently a free agent.

 

While pitching for Cuba, his fastball regularly topped out at over 100 mph.   

 

The Yankees, Angels, Red Sox, White Sox, Cardinals, Mets, and now the Tigers are interested in him, among “other clubs”. MLB sources say he could sign with a team as early as next week. Chapman said he is "80 percent ready for MLB right now".

 

By several estimates, Chapman could garner a contract worth anywhere from $40 million to $60 million.

 

This story has flown under the radar a bit. Some sources say the Cubs are one of those “other clubs”. Are they legitimate bidders here, or is this a pipe dream?

 

My gut says "pipe dream". New owner Ricketts is not likely to open up his wallet for $40-$60M during his first full week as owner especially with the Cubs already holding onto several long term contract commitments.

 

Thoughts?  

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

0 recs  |  Comment 81 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Too much money for an uncertain product.

Yes, he appears to be major-league ready. But are we sure of that?

The Cubs have some payroll issues to rectify before the season begins. I doubt there’s room for a $60 million gamble.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 27, 2009 12:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll throw in $20 if I get a beer voucher

From the beer stands at the top of the lower deck . . . none of this Bud/Old Style nonsense.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 27, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed Al. I don't see it happening.

If Ricketts has that kind of money available after the club purchase, I doubt he’d be inclined to put all of the “eggs” in the basket of one, unproven player.

"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)

Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...

by Zeke on Oct 27, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Every free agent is a gamble.

If Chapman pans out, he’ll be underpaid, even at 60 M.

I think the Angels will win this one, though.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 27, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

Why? Because of Arte Moreno? Or because they are freeing up a lot of $ with Lackey leaving?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 27, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They have an opening in the rotation, yes,

they have money, yes, and unlike the Red Sox and Yankees, they have a Cuban player already in a high profile position on the team. Cuban players have had better success making the culture shift when on a team with other Cuban players.

The Angels seem to be the perfect fit.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 27, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I forgot about Kendry Morales.

You just might be right about this.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 27, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is a much bigger gamble than the usual FA

This guy has never pitched a sason of pro ball.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Oct 27, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not really.

He’s played competitively. We have a decent idea on how Cuban player peformance can translate. He’s been scouted well.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 27, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Playing in a few international tournaments

does not equal playing a full minor league schedule. It is a huge gamble, especially for the money he will command.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Oct 28, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 28, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You have your opinion.

My opinion is based on the statistical analysis done on players coming over from non-MLB leagues and how their performance has tended to translate.

I just don’t get why people think there’s something mystical or magical in playing in the MLB that makes foreigners a bigger risk. Yes, making the MLB has to be an awesome experience, but once you get over the butterflies, you get back to your job.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 28, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In general, though...

… hasn’t that turned out to be true? For every Kendry Morales, there’s an Ariel Prieto.

For every Ichiro, there’s a Fukudome or Tsuyoshi Shinjo.

Jose Contreras was hailed as a savior, too. Turned out to be good at times, not at others. Granted, Chapman is far younger than Contreras.

Or is he?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 28, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure if he could be far older and still be breathing.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Oct 28, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But isn't that in general the same as

in general in baseball in general? In the draft, for every Evan Longoria there’s a Delmon Young. In free agency, for every Ted Lilly there’s a Barry Zito.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 28, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"...for every Ted Lilly there's everyone else."

There – I fixed that for you… ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 28, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Or +Ted Lilly

I think I just blew my mind

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Oct 29, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True, every free agent is a gamble.

But in this offseason, if we’re going to gamble, let’s gamble on some offense. We need to address the real problem of this team, not the strengths.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Oct 28, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is the offense a problem?

Or will a return to health mean that that offense goes back to being the best offense in the league?

If there was a 21 year old LH OF on the free market, that would be nice, but sometimes there are players worth taking gambles on no matter what you think your strengths or weaknesses are.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 28, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Two things to keep in mind

1) Don’t bet for certain that he is 21. He may be 24. Just sayin’
  
2) Don’t immediately believe the “regularly over 100” line. There are many, many resons why the Cubans would be juicing their radar guns to add a few MPH’s on any reading. I don’t believe that he hit 100 during the WBC.

by jerry morales rules on Oct 27, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you would be wrong

he hit 100 MPH during the WBC. I saw it. Those weren’t Cuban juiced guns.

by socalbob on Oct 27, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

According to the Cuban reports, he was regularly touching 102 and 103. I can believe 100, but I when I saw him, he was hitting high 90’s and not quite 100.

I believe you if you saw him hit 100, but I know he wasn’t hitting the 102/103 that the Cubans were claiming.

by jerry morales rules on Oct 27, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

true

102/103 regularly, no. But he did hit 100.

by socalbob on Oct 28, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm asking a serious question to anyone who knows

Can a hitter really tell the difference between a 99 mile an hour fastball and a 101 mile an hour fastball?

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Oct 27, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never faced...

…a guy who threw 99 or 100, but I did face several who were in the 95-96 range.

Many moons ago, I had a few AB’s (in back to back games) against Calvin Schiraldi and Roger Clemens when they were both at Texas. Both threw mid 90’s, with Schiraldi actually being a little quicker at that time. I thought Clemens was much tougher because his fastball moved more and it was a “heavier” pitch that had more late explosion to it. This is why the gun is not the tell all. One guy may throw 95 and be harder to pick up than another guy who throws 90, because of how the ball comes out of their hand and how well they hide it.

A good hitter can always dial it up to catch up with the fastball, but when its moving or he is hitting his spots, it becomes a hell of a lot tougher.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 27, 2009 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had that backwards....

…I meant the guy who throws 90 may be harder to pick up than a guy who throws 95.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 27, 2009 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is why Greg Maddux was so successful.

He never really threw that hard, even in his younger days. It was the movement and location of his pitches that got hitters out.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 28, 2009 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And Frank Tanana (post arm surgery) too.

Watching him throw his “yakker” in Detroit was fun! Hitters stood there and swore he couldn’t possibly throw it that slowly and still have it be a strike. But it was. What a curveball…

"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)

Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...

by Zeke on Oct 28, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One of the funniest baseball moments I've ever seen...

It was a night game in Cleveland, early in the season so it’s a bit chilly, Yankees in town. Dave Winfield at the plate looking very big, athletic, and extremely intimidating. An aging, broken down, senior citizen on the mound in the guise of one Phil Niekro.

Well Phil lets loose with one of his knuckleballs and of course, Winfield about screws himself into the ground swinging so hard at it, loses his balance and falls over. He gets up and just glares out towards the mound.

Meanwhile Phil is just standing on the mound, slight crouch, hands on thighs, and I see a bunch of little frozen breaths in the air as he’s laughing and laughing…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 28, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm.

I checked Niekro’s game logs. In his two years in Cleveland, Niekro struck out Winfield twice: on April 27, 1986 in New York, and on August 5, 1987 in Cleveland — looking.

You sure the hitter was Winfield?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 28, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe there was a very cold wind blowing in off Lake Erie that August night.

After the summer we just had in the midwest, it’s not out of the realm of possibility…

Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...

by Zeke on Oct 28, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep, it was definitely Winfield.

Never said it was a strikeout though – just a swing and a miss.

I checked the game logs as well, and I’m pretty sure it was the April 17, 1986 game. Winfield went 1-4 with a double, a groundout, a foulout, and a flyout. Attendance was all of 5,602. Not bad for a place that holds 73,000. ;-)

Now that I think some more, I was in Milwaukee for most of 1987 so it had to be that game.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 28, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just read your post again...

… and realized you hadn’t said it was a strikeout. I think you’re right about the date of the game, too.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 28, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tanana pre-arm surgeries

was something to behold. Koufax like stuff.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Oct 28, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was thought of as...

… the left-handed Nolan Ryan. Look at his numbers from 1975, 1976 and 1977.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 28, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tanana, pre-injuries, was far better than Ryan

Tanana was a guy with A+ stuff, like Ryan, but could pitch, unlike Ryan who at that stage was still largely a thrower.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Oct 29, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He once described his career with words to the effect of

“In the 70s, I threw in the 90s, and in the 90s, I threw in the 70s.”

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 28, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You bet...

…how hard you throw is mostly relevent to the other pitches you throw. With Maddux, he threw a change up that was 8-10 mph slower than his fastball and looked exactly like his fastball coming out of his hand. The hitter would always have doubt in the back of his mind to what was coming with Maddux, and that made his 85-86 mph fastball seem like some who throw 95. Add the fact that he could paint the black, and you have a guy who is damn tough to square up.

If there is any doubt in a hitters mind, reaction time goes down the toilet. Doubt can be created by someone who throws 85 or it can be someone who throws 95, but the key is having the same release for all your pitches and being able to throw them for strikes.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 28, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Topping 100 mph...

…sounds nice, but if that’s all he has, it would only mean the ball would leave the ballpark that much quicker.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 27, 2009 3:06 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

For more reference, see Farnsworth, Kyle

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 27, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly...

…as a stand alone, radar gun readings mean nothing.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 27, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus curveball and plus slider

The curveball especially is pretty good. You can think as a left handed Dwight Gooden.

Now, don’t get me wrong, I think that $40M is a lot to spend on him and he still needs to learn how to pitch (and not just throw).

by jerry morales rules on Oct 27, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok then...

…if he can throw that hard and has a plus breaking ball, the guy would be virtually unhittable – if he can throw strikes.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 27, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's not Doc Gooden-esque

I’m not sure JMR has actually seen Chapman after reading two of his posts. His #2 is a “slurve”—more down and in to a RHB than a true over the top curve that Gooden had. On a good day, think of a Steve Carlton slider. On a bad day, think Francisco Liriano os today (not 2 years ago).

It’s not consistent and not a great pitch. Maybe people consider it a “plus” pitch because he carries it in the high 80’s. He’s a prospect and an intriguing one because of the 100 MPH arm.

by socalbob on Oct 27, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

The question with him is whether he can throw strikes consistently

He seems to throw a lot of pitches and not get too deep into games. I see him more as a thrower rather than a pitcher at this point.

I think he could benefit from MLB coaching as Cuban players seem, to me at least, to be undisciplined in their approach. There is a lot to work with here though.

by jerry morales rules on Oct 27, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"While pitching for Cuba, his fastball regularly topped out at over 100 mph. "

With the Cubs’ luck that will turn out to be a typo and should read 100 kph.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Oct 27, 2009 4:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No thanks.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 27, 2009 4:51 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

COUGH DICE-K COUGH

Don’t blow 40mil on a gamble. My guess is Chapman turns into a middle of the road starter.

"Hey! If the moon were made of ribs, wouldja eat it? I know I would!"

by cubs0505 on Oct 27, 2009 4:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, let's save our 40 M for a proven ML starter

like Carl Pavano. He’ll be a free agent this year, right?

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 27, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Cubs are going to spend money this offseason

If not Chapman, than what free agent could realistically be coming to Chicago?

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Oct 27, 2009 5:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Chapman

We were discussing this in another thread. In general, if we had the money, I’d be for it. No, he isn’t a certainty. Yes, he might be older than his listed age (although the 26 year old rumors were largely dismissed). Yes, his velocity may not be able to consistently sit in the upper 90’s once he gets here. Yes, there are some folks that are concerned about the inconsistent slider, and a changeup that still needs work. (every report I’ve read suggests that socalbob’s comments are spot on)

All that aside, most people acknowledge he would be a top 10 prospect in baseball. He would add an elite arm to the system (I am a huge Jay Jackson fan … but Chapman’s potential exceeds Jackson and Cashner.) He would add a potential lefty starting arm. Heck, I feel like I would be alright with him as the 5th starter right now (emphasis on 5th starter). This is the type of talent that would be worth that roll of the dice.

That said,

a) There’s been few rumors connecting the Cubs to him.
b) Do we have that sort of money to spend?

My guess is no, so I’m not getting my hopes up here. Maybe we are secretly saving up for Yu Darvish (j/k considering he won’t be coming anytime soon and Ricketts just got in).

As for a guess, well, this will be interesting due to the financial climate. I could see a surprise team emerge. Looking at some teams -

a) Red Sox – They are looking for another pitcher to mix in there in the 5th spot, perhaps near midseason. If they buy Chapman’s ability to adjust, this fits. They have spent money on the foreign markets aggressively, landing Jose Iglesias this past summer. Obviously, there’s Daisuke, but they go after youngsters as well, such as Che-Hsuan Lin. This would be the big move to counter last offseason when they failed to land Teixeira. There might be some money concerns, though, as they have some bad contracts, like Lowell. But the money should be there if Theo wants it.

b) Yankees – They get mentioned because, well, it’s the Yankees. They also have money clearing up. That said … they don’t have that much budget flexibility and they have to figure out the OF situation first. Also, they aren’t exactly crying for starters. Even if they let Chien-Ming Wang go, they could go with CC/AJ/Andy/Joba/Phil and have a pretty solid group. They’ll be in it … particularly if the Red Sox are in it.

c) Orioles – This is a team close, and a big signing could be a “statement” move, akin to the Gil Meche signing for the Royals several years back. That said, what they need is more up the middle talent (SS). And I don’t think they have the money to really challenge the big boys.

d) Nationals – What? There’s actually some money available, assuming they don’t get gunshy post-Strasburg. They need impact arms, and they need to rebuild the system (it’s much better than given credit for, but more work is needed). This would be a bold statement … but I doubt it happens.

e) Mets – They need another starter, and they need impact. Under Omar, they’ve been aggressive in Latin America, helping to overcome some system deficiencies. That said, do they have enough money to afford to go “all-in” here … and still fix their other holes, particularly if Chapman isn’t ready? The system still lacks impact pitching, outside of Mejia and maybe Holt.

f) White Sox – While pitching isn’t a huge issue, Kenny Williams has never shied away from the splash. They’ve also signed two recent high profile Cubans in Alexei Ramirez and Dayan Viciedo. Adding Chapman could also allow Kenny to contemplate dealing an arm to fill another need. The biggest problem here is money. They’ve got some money clearing up in the near future, but can he make it work now (and clear up enough money to make other moves this offseason).

g) Tigers – This is a team that, by most accounts, has some money this offseason, but not that much. That said, a lot of veteran contracts clearing up in the near future, so they could make it work. Pitching, though, isn’t a huge issue, with Verlander/Porcello/Jackson a solid top 3. This, though, would be a bold move, something they may want to do.

h) Angels – They could use an impact move, and they are active abroad. They also could use an arm. The question here is how the other stuff shakes out … and whether or not they buy Chapman being able to help now. They’ve got so many moves they need to ponder, from Figgins to Abreu to Vlad. The system’s a bit thin, and Arte is fond of big moves, so this is one to watch.

i) Cardinals – This is a team that needs to show Albert some love, and the way to do that is to build a strong team. Their system is a mess (Arguably the worst in baseball … there’s a thread on Sickels site that touches on this). That said, the big league squad is in a good place right now overall. There’s some money (FA’s, along with the Wagner Mateo signing suggest that). The issue here is that they may want to address Holliday first (I think DeRosa is a backburner issue for them, as they might go Allen Craig there to save some dough).

If I had to take a guess right now, I’d guess … Red Sox. I half wonder about a darkhorse like, say, the Pirates. But everything fits for the Red Sox, A potential desire to make a big move. Adding a top young arm to the mix. Adding an arm that might be ready by midseason, or at worst, can help in the pen.

If I had to pick a 2nd team, I’d go … White Sox. I want to say the Cardinals or the Angels, but this feels like a possible Kenny move if he can clean the money situation up (it’s not bad, but does he have the extra money to make the move). This would give Kenny a ton of flexibility. Say he buys Aroldis fitting in this year. If so, maybe he tries to shop Peavy or Floyd (Buerhle won’t go anywhere and Danks seems unlikely) to fill some offensive and bullpen holes. And Aroldis could start in the pen instead.

by toonsterwu on Oct 27, 2009 6:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

From the things I've read

The M’s have quite a bit of money they could spend this offseason.

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on Oct 27, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My hunch

and I could be way off, is that the M’s may sit this one out. I don’t think they have “quite a bit of money”, but Johjima was an early Christmas present for them, so there is some money. They also are consistently active in foreign markets. But … my hunch is that Zduriencik is still rebuilding and that throwing that much money, when they have to try to resign Felix Hernandez first, might not be worth it.

I imagine they’ll hold Felix through 2010, and I just can’t see them going all out on another arm without addressing the Felix situation first. If they deal Felix this offseason, then who knows.

But I could be wrong.

by toonsterwu on Oct 27, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it was Tim Dierkes

That I was reading. If I remember right it said something to the effect of their payroll was like 99 million on opening day ths year and they have only like 55 millioncommitted with only a few arb raises.

You may be right about them sitting out but if they were gonna spend this would be the time.

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on Oct 27, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I was a betting man...

…I’d say the Angels will land Chapman. And that John Lackey will sign with the Yankees in free agency, thereby enabling them to move Joba Chamberlain to the bullpen permanently and groom him as heir apparent to Mariano.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Oct 27, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That would rather surprise me

Yankees going after Lackey that is. I think the Yankees have to focus on the OF situation first. Their top OF prospect, Austin Jackson, is looking like an iffier proposition. Damon is aging. It’s possible they go with a stopgap of Damon in LF on one year, Cabrera in CF, and Swisher in RF. That would require getting Damon signed down first.

Joba also hasn’t been as dominant this time around out of the pen. It’s partly why Phil Hughes has stayed as the setup man, when most folks thought Joba might move into that role. Furthermore, they haven’t shown any inclination to want to move Joba to the pen. Might they change their mind? Perhaps, anything’s possible, but Joba wasn’t a bad end of the rotation arm this year, and they might hope for better.

by toonsterwu on Oct 27, 2009 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I follow the Yankees a good deal...

The prevailing thought is that Brian Cashman and Joe Girardi fully intend to move Phillip Hughes into the rotation next year and that what to do with Joba Chamberlain is still up in the air. But the Yankees are growing concerned that Joba is not ideally suited to be a starting pitcher, and for the sake of unlocking his huge upside and reducing the chances of devastating injury he will be moved back to the pen in 2010.

Chances are excellent that the Yankees bring Johnny Damon back on a one or two year deal. Also, Hideki Matsui will likely be back on a one year deal.

Austin Jackson is still very highly regarded. Plus the Yankees remain bullish on
Brent Gardner and have a rehabbing Xavier Nady to look forward to.

The Yankee offseason will be fixated on landing another starting pitcher and adding bullpen depth.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Oct 27, 2009 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought no one expected Montero to stick at C.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 28, 2009 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think

few expect Jesus Montero to stick at DH, but that they may work Jesus as the starting catcher a little while longer to see if things turn around. If they don’t, they may ponder moving him to LF. Reality is, in the bigs, he’ll probably get a lot time at DH. If his bat is ready, it wouldn’t surprise me if they eased him into the DH role next year around midseason.

by toonsterwu on Oct 28, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

in saying all that

Yankees are still loaded at catcher. Austin Romine looks good, and they have several other guys. They signed, um, Gary Sanchez, who was a top talent, and drafted a few kids. Also, Cervelli looks like a capable number 2 catcher in the bigs.

by toonsterwu on Oct 28, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lackey and the Yankees makes sense

And Joba to the pen makes even more sense. Rivera is probably on his last contract, and Joba has the stuff to shut down games.

On a non-pitching note if I’m the yankees I take Holliday instead of Damon. Damon looks like his legs are going to give out at any moment, and Holliday would fit perfectly for them.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Oct 27, 2009 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think

that winning would make the Yankees more hesitant to shell out the huge money needed for Holliday. Add in that Jesus Montero may have to move to LF. They do have some financial restrictions under Hal, at least compared to before. Also, Damon does fit them a bit better for next year, as he’s able to hit at the top of the order. My guess is that Damon comes back for another year and retires after that.

by toonsterwu on Oct 28, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get why there's this thought that the Yankees

won’t be able to focus on both the OF and P if they want. They got both Teix and CC last off-season.

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 28, 2009 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's been some indications

that the Yankees will be a bit more restrained with Hal, and if so, they may just target one big ticket item. The thing to remember is that Tex was sort of a last minute move for them last year. They debated it for a long time and realized that, if they didn’t make a move for someone last offseason, they would’ve had to make a move for someone this offseason.

It’s possible that winning gets them to change course. It’s also possible that winning may make them change their mind and spend more. Another thing to remember is that, since Cashman took a bigger control on operations around 4-5 years ago, they’ve focused on keeping their system and developing kids. They haven’t really done that great a job of it (the huge failure of Eric Duncan, Austin Jackson had an iffy year, some arms have failed to develop) but they’ve tried.

by toonsterwu on Oct 28, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and Burnett

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 28, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I also follow the Yankees a great deal

having spent time a huge chunk of my life in new york, and I would be very curious where you’ve heard those “prevailing thoughts”. While outside folks have long argued that Joba is better suited for the pen, there’s been few indications from the Yankees that they felt that way. They fought that move all year long, when moving him to the pen could’ve helped the Yankees early, and it could’ve saved Joba’s arm a bit late. They fought the move even though Joba’s velocity was down. Even late in the year, when he struggled, iirc, they felt that he had simply run into an innings wall and thought that he would be better next year having had the experience.

Also, every indication so far has been that they will let Hideki Matsui . Damon returning is possible, but most of the current indications are that they will only offer him arbitration. To some players, that’s a slap in the face, so who knows how Damon will react (although I do think he will return). But … I haven’t heard much spec from anyone that truly believes Matsui will return unless he takes a one year deal that’s in the Yankees favor in many respects. Maybe things change on that front.

Sure, they still like Austin Jackson. But Austin just came off a season where he struck out 24% of the time while needing a .390 OBP to be able to post a .300 BA. He also has next to no power and is an average CF at best if they try him there. The rest of the team is so good that they could probably live with Austin Jackson in a corner OF role … but he’s really developed into more of a depth OF type (no power, average defense, poor discipline isn’t really a standout thing to bank on).

Btw, Xavier Nady is a potential FA. I believe he’ll Eddie Bajek has projected him as as a type B free agent.

by toonsterwu on Oct 28, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

we got enough problems cutting the MB dead weight off

and seriously wondering if Soriano is really going to be worth the rest of the contract after a season past like this one .. not to mention, the continuing holes in the lineup and some good players coming up we might bid on .. before an unproven sensation opens the purse strings up

Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..

coda

ELO, 1975

by cubnational on Oct 27, 2009 7:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Doubt the Cubs will have any interest

The Ricketts family needs to get a handle on the spiraling Cub payroll that is already chocked full of bad contracts. I can’t see any way they have appetite to pony up the money it would take to land Chapman.

Job one for the Ricketts should be on building a top flight front office with major focus on player scouting, selection and development. That is what has been missing in Chicago ever since Dallas Green left. Even the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels and Dodgers are heavily dependent on a successful player development system. You can’t keep buying your way out of deficiencies elsewhere.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Oct 27, 2009 8:09 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Could be a symbolic move for new Ricketts regime

To throw some money at the future. I wonder how extensively the Cubs have scouted him.

I would doubt it happens, but I haven’t heard what our budget will be. And sure buying a team is expensive, but I would guess you wouldn’t buy a franchise without either spending some cash pronto or rebuilding immediately.

"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman

by BucknerKongCardenal on Oct 27, 2009 11:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

DeLuca indicated

that he didn’t expect much change and for it to stick around 143 million, so we aren’t looking at much money. That means maybe 1 big ticket move (around 10 million), if Hendry is able to clear some money off the books.

by toonsterwu on Oct 28, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Go after

King Felix of Seattle!!!!!!

 that would be my dream and wish.

by Grockcubs on Oct 28, 2009 6:15 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Zduriencik may ponder it

but it would really take a gigantic deal to likely make that happen this offseason due to the number of controlled years left, something the Cubs system probably isn’t equipped to make happen (and probably would make it not worthwhile for the Cubs to pursue in some respects).

by toonsterwu on Oct 28, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The cost would be staggering

Wasn’t the rumored deal something like Adrian Gonzalez to Seattle, Felix to Boston, and Buckholtz to Padres? with other names included obviously.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Oct 28, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

there were a whole host of rumors

but most indications were that boston held out their top level talent, their top 2-3 guys, guys such as Ryan Westmoreland and Casey Kelly.

by toonsterwu on Oct 28, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Bleed Cubbie Blue, the Chicago Cubs blog for the SB Nation, created on February 9, 2005 by Al Yellon
Start posting about the Cubs »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Forest_waterfall_xl_small
Wrigley skyboxes?...NO WAY!
Self-portrait-4_small
Slightly OT: Trivia
P7200073_small
Randy Hundley 2010 Fantasy Camp
19433_10100150211636494_2341152_60487799_2361411_n_small
"Must Read" CUBS Book Titles
Cubs_ying_yang_small
BCB Awards

Recent FanPosts

Budlightfancam_small
The Ricketts Family - What Does This Mean For The Cub Fan?
Small
Spring training tickets question
Small
"Wrigley Club"
Img_3005_small
Price Per Game
Small
Who's going to Atlanta?
Small
MLB 2010 Draft Prep
Calvin_small
Poll: Should Bartman return
Monterrey1_small
Theriot
Chicagocubs_small
Hudson vs. Nady... ? what is the rationale ?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Ichiro throws laser beams. Literally. (Hat tip: Rob Neyer)
BCB Voting Open
Keith Law's Organizational Rankings

Recent FanShots

Some of the best players in history came to camp at 19 or 20 and made it,"...
"Sabermetrics": Word To Stay In Public Domain
Wrigley Field Changes Detailed
Ex-Cub News: Jacque Jones Signs Minor League Deal With Twins
Giants Go To Dynamic Ticket Pricing System For All Games
Help with Cubs W Flag I just ordered a Cubs W flag and I'm pretty sure I...
Packing Up The Cubs Gear for the Trip to Mesa
MLB-TV for 2010
Cubs prospects Numbers in the Fall/Winter Leagues..
White Sox "Unretire" #11 For Vizquel

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

It Is Only...

Cubs By The Numbers

Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.

Click here to order your copy, available now!

SPONSORS

Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges

Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: 2010 Spring Training
Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: General 2010 Ticket Exchange
Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: Season Ticket Packages Or Large Blocks Only

Managing Editor

Yelloncard_small Al

Editorial Cartoonist

Toonmike_small toonmike

Contributors

Dsc_0139_small holy mackerel

100px-boisehawkscaplogo_small Josh77

Small shawndgoldman