Why Other Teams Should Want Milton Bradley
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 11:52 AM CDT
161 comments
As Cub fans, we just watched a disappointing season end with the team putting a lot of the blame on Bradley. Seeing Milton carry the albatross of destroying a 97-win team, we wonder why anyone would want him. And yet there are reports saying Jim Hendry is able to negotiate with a solid number of teams. Certainly there are some teams that have made it clear they don't want players with character problems - the Angels and the Indians, for example. And there are teams that Bradley wore out his welcome with and won't go back to. But I think there are reasons that the market for Bradley could be bigger than just teams looking to dump bad contracts of their own. It strikes me, for example, that Bradley's situation is awfully reminiscent of the Angels's situation with Jose Guillen in 2004. Guillen had been suspended for the last 8 days of the season after a dugout tantrum that was the last straw. Now, Guillen only cost 3.5 M and for only one year. But he netted Juan Rivera and Maicer Izturis.
A lot has been made of Bradley never sticking with a team for more than two years. It's been asked what team would want to take Bradley for two full years now. But I don't think that's how a buying team might look at it. Think of it this way - Bradley's trade value is probably going to be higher at the end of 2010 than it is now. How could his trade value be lower? Perhaps if he was injured for the entire season, that could do it. And that's a possibility. But under almost every other scenario, Bradley will be worth more going into 2011, when there's only one year left on his contract, when he'll almost certainly be coming off a better season of offense, and when, probably, part of his salary is already being paid by Jim Hendry.
So, say you're the Giants. You trade Aaron Rowand for Milton Bradley straight up, getting out from Rowand's contract, you get some much needed OBP for your lineup, and then if you don't want another season of Bradley, you can pay part of Bradley's contract and get the equivelant of Juan Rivera and Maicer Izturis in return. In other words, trading for Milton Bradley could easily be seen as a great buy low, wait a year, sell higher opportunity.
Let's consider a different kind of trade, too. If Jim Hendry paid 6 M of Bradley's 2010 salary and 6 M of Bradley's 2011 salary, that would leave 3 M this year and 6 M next year. Would it make sense to the Marlins to trade Jeremy Hermida for that, fully intending to do things the Marlin way and trade Bradley in 2011? Bradley and Hermida have the same health uncertainty, but Bradley's a better bet for better production. And what if the baseball market picked up again a year from now? Bradley at 6 M for 1 year in a recovering economy would be a steal.
Or what about the Blue Jays? They aren't likely to contend unless they get massive years out of cheap acquisitions. They can afford to pay more than the Marlins would pay. If Milton only cost you 5 M in 2010 and 8 in 2001, what would you pay for a perfect risk, someone who you can trade for more than you paid in 2011 even if he doesn't give you the boost you need over the other AL East behemoths in 2010. What injury-risky pitcher would you offer? Would it even make sense to trade Scott Downs for Bradley?
It could be that the only way we trade Milton Bradley is by paying his whole contract and getting nothing much back. It could be that we have to trade him for a bad contract that is marginally helpful. But trying to look at it from other teams' perspectives - there's reason to buy a guy who is a lock for solid OBP and could end up again with the best OPS in your league. What does Jason Bay offer over Milton Bradley when you have to pay Bay twice as much for twice as many years? There's even more reason to buy him when you consider that you will almost certainly be able to trade him for more in a year then you have to pay to get him now.
Other teams shouldn't think of Milton Bradley as a house they will buy to live in, but a house they buy to fix up the value and flip when the market is better. Not everyone will see it that way, but of the 30 teams out there, someone will.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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I took the cop-out vote (no idea)
Mainly because you presented a solid case. Others have said here that the Yankees might be a fit because of the relative anonymity he’d have in that clubhouse – it makes me wonder if that’s another reason to root for the Phillies this fall.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 29, 2009 12:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like the Yankees as a potential destination.
But that would only work if they’re definitely moving on from Matsui and Damon. From the Yankees’ perspective, assuming you think you’re bigger than any MB negative news cycles, do you prefer Bradley to either of Matsui or Damon?
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm....
They’re so crazy competitive, it’s always hard to say with them.
I think it’s time to part ways with Godzilla, and moving Swisher to left, DHing Damon, and using Bradley in right might be a very good solution across the board. But they like glitz with their moves, so I can’t help but feel like they just go after Bay instead, weakening — hopefully — the Red Sox in the process.
by Damen Jackson on Oct 29, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's say the Yankees take Bay from the Sox
would the Sox try Bradley – or is this irrelevant because Hendry won’t wait around to trade Bradley? Similarly, I’ve wondered if Bradley would make sense to a post-Holliday Cardinals, but again, I don’t see Hendry wanting to wait on Bradley.
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think an NL Central team is likely to take Bradley
Unless they think he’d be motivated by sticking it to the Cubs
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 29, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent Write Up
Didn’t think of that buy low sell high idea. Sometime I forget that baseball is a business
With that being said, I highly doubt the Marlins will try and get him unless Hendry paid for 70-80% of the contract. But if he netted Hermida (Al’s favorite), I’d do it in a heart beat. Dude swings a good bat and plays pretty good D. Sort of a Josh Willingham with a better bat type from my understanding
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Oct 29, 2009 12:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There is a LOT of talk about Hermida
www.fivetoolfans.com
by mykalmorgan on Oct 29, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hermida
Career .770 OPS + crap defense
Do not want
Life is parallel to hell but I must maintain
by dr stabbingworth on Oct 29, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he has potential
I’d like to see the Cubs go into 2010 with 4 OFs who would be starters on other clubs, and adding Hermida and a RH CF with plus defense would be a good combo I think – not the best, but good.
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sheesh.
I had the idea that the Cubs might deal for Hermida a year ago. Obviously, his stock has dropped. That doesn’t make him my “favorite” forever, you know.
I think the best case scenario for Bradley’s deal is Rowand (with the side benefit that you might get Reed Johnson, who’s one of Rowand’s best friends, back on an under-market-value deal), second best might be Jeremy Bonderman.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 29, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take Bonderman first.
Really, I’ve thought that deal was too good to be true. I’d hope we could get a little more than Rowand for Bradley, because Rowand’s deal is longer.
Here’s a question – say we can get Rowand and nothing or Eric Byrnes and something decent – which deal would you take?
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose I'd take Bonderman too
…but I’m not sure why the Tigers would need Bradley if they weren’t getting rid of one of their outfielders in the trade.
Byrnes is 100% useless, so you’re basically trading Bradley for whatever this “something decent” is. So it would depend highly on what that something decent was, since you’d be paying a lot of money for it.
by Wreckard on Oct 29, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I imagine...
… the Tigers would love for the Cubs to take Magglio Ordonez, too, but that’s way too much money for the Cubs to take on, only giving Detroit Bradley.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 29, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ordonez is really the only player I can see the Cubs / Tigers lining up on
Nothing else would make much sense for Detroit.
by Wreckard on Oct 29, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Bonderman?
The Tigers’ DH last year was (mostly) Marcus Thames, with Carlos Guillen and Aubrey Huff filling many of the other games.
Bradley could fill that role.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 29, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not want Ordoñez
The Cubs need to improve defensively as much as they can. The Mariners improved 24 games by basically upgrading their defense. Imagine how good the Cubs pitching staff would look if they had the Mariners defensive outfield with Lee and a healthy Aramis Ramirez doing what they do offensively?
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by mykalmorgan on Oct 29, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't you use Byrnes for whatever you use Reed Johnson for
and hardly notice the difference?
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pretty much
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 29, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not exactly a ringing endorsement
You’d basically be paying $11M for Reed Johnson (assuming you’re not sending any money).
Can Byrnes still play center? The last time he played there was 4 years an 2 leg injuries ago.
Honestly at this point I’d probably prefer Johnson.
by Wreckard on Oct 29, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Byrnes can NOT still play center
RJ can and I think he’s probably better offensively right now than Byrnes.
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by mykalmorgan on Oct 29, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, I forgot that Byrnes' injuries included his legs.
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bonderman
looks broken to me….
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1667&position=P
fb velocity is down 4 straight years, throwing less sliders, increasing bb rate…
by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 29, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Likely reason...
… injury. If he’s healthy, I’d do it.
But I’d make sure of that first.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 29, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's my point
he’s had multiple shoulder problems which very few pitchers are able to come back from. I’m not sure he’ll ever be healthy again (similar to Prior)
by DartmouthCubsFan on Oct 29, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have absolutely no idea
My friend wrote a long post explaining why he thinks Milton wasn’t a huge problem for the ‘09 Cubs. I agree to a certain extent, and I think that some other GM will see it that way too, especially if he goes to an AL team where he can focus just on hitting. I’m just not sure how much value anyone will be willing to give up considering EVERYONE on the planet knows how desperate the Cubs are to be rid of him.
www.fivetoolfans.com
by mykalmorgan on Oct 29, 2009 12:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sort of a side comment
But if DeLuca is right on expected payroll (he said around this year, so let’s roughly say 140-150), then if we include Bradley, along with accounting for some rough raises, wile excluding Harden/Reed Johnson/Kevin Gregg/Neal Cotts, we’re already sitting at around 130-135 mil, give or take a mil, leaving us with 1 big move if we opted to make one. Short of it is, to make it somewhat relevant to this post, unless we get a quality player back, which I still have my doubts on (at best, I’m expecting a Jason Marquis type deal from last offseason), I’d rather take less talent and clear as much money as possible with the Bradley deal. If we can clear 3-4 million, that might allow us to say, land an OF and a pen arm.
by toonsterwu on Oct 29, 2009 12:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If we can clear 3-4 million, that might allow us to say, land an OF and a pen arm.
The problem with this idea is that there really aren’t any outfielders on the free agent market that 1) we’d be able to afford, even eating 3/4ths of Bradley’s 2009 salary and 2) that really fit what we need.
Mike Cameron will be too expensive ($10M+ I’d guess) so you’re next best options are guys like Ankiel, Byrd, and Nady.
by Wreckard on Oct 29, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love a Xavier Nady...
pre-injury. But a 2nd Tommy John surgery makes him a huge risk.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Oct 29, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he could always move to shortstop . . . .
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 29, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure Cameron will be paid that much.
And if he is, then sign me up for a Rowand-Bradley swap.
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Cameron would get less than $10 million a year
I sure hope the Cubs are giving him a look then, that is an incredible bargain.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Oct 29, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It depends on the years.
I think I’d pay Cameron 10 M for one year, but he’s getting old enough, I don’t want to be on the hook for 10 M in 2011. Would you?
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cameron would probably be a decent value on $10/mil for one year
NO MORE THAN THAT. He’ll probably go somewhere that they’re willing to offer him more than one year guaranteed. I hope that is not the Cubs. If he does take a one-year deal, I’d be happy for him to be a Cub.
http://www.fivetoolfans.com
by mykalmorgan on Oct 29, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd give him multiple years
if we could agree to a lesser salary and a playing time schedule that wasn’t full time.
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd prefer some sort of option for 2011
perhaps like Magglio’s contract where if he hits some numbers his option vests.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Oct 29, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm very interested in how this plays out!!
I understand every avenue of this “situation.”
On one hand MB has been on team’s where he has been a good teammate and played well. On other teams he has been a cancer who can ruin an entire team chemistry. He has been hurt for nearly —entire years and not produced anything and has been healthy and produced big time for others.
Financially we all can speculate what payroll is gonna be but none of us know for sure. We also don’t know what exactly the brass wants for this team and what there willing to do to obtain said players.
This whole thing leaves more questions but soon I’m sure we will find out the answers!
I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
by cubsluver22 on Oct 29, 2009 12:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
good post
I think the main reasons for trading for Milton are pretty obvious: He could really bounce back for another team at a bargain price. But the flip Milton option is a good tertiary reason to acquire him, IMO.
by elgato on Oct 29, 2009 1:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd be even more interested...
in “Why should the Cubs want Milton Bradley.”
by Kansas25 on Oct 29, 2009 2:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A post with your name on it, if I ever heard it.
Consider it pre-rec’d if you write it.
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That'd be a real short post in my opinion.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 29, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everything discussed in this post is a reason to give Bradley another chance
When the best case anyone can think of is getting Aaron Rowand back in trade, you know you’re screwed.
by Wreckard on Oct 29, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rowand...
… had a pretty good year in the hitter-friendly Citizens Bank Park in 2007. He hit poorly in the pitcher-friendly [Phone Holding Co.] Park the last two years.
Is it unreasonable to expect that Rowand might hit better with Wrigley as his home park?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 29, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better? Sure.
Better than Bradley in 2010? Unlikely.
All I’m saying is that even in the best case scenario, you’re still getting back a lesser player, possibly significantly lesser. That’s a pretty bad position to be in.
by Wreckard on Oct 29, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All the more reason why Hendry should have done his homework on Bradley before signing him
Because this is the position that he put himself in.
I liked the signing, because I thought the Cubs HAD done their homework and the quirks weren’t going to be an issue. They were, though.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 29, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't like the signing, as you know, and...
… you are correct, this is pretty damning evidence that Hendry did NOT do his due diligence.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 29, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sigh
How exactly was Bradley’s behavior going to be foreseen by due diligence? And don’t just say, “Well, we all knew he was a jerk,” because Hendry and the team met with Bradley and, therefore, knew him better than any of us still do today. And sure, you can expect issues, but how were they going to foresee issues of this magnitude? Bradley hadn’t done this at this level at any club previously, except perhaps Cleveland.
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"So, Mr. DGU. If I give you $30M, are you going to act like a self-centered jerk?"
No, Mr. Badger.
“Great, sign here.” Well, I did my research.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 29, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Three questions
1) Do you really think that’s all JH did?
2) Do you really think that there aren’t other self-centered jerks on the Cubs right now, who don’t cause so much havok?
3) What could have been done to know that things would have happened at this level?
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 30, 2009 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, I was a bit hyperbolic
But events during the season were more consistent with past behavior than with what Hendry said Bradley said during their meeting/meetings.
Did he think to ask anyone how Bradley dealt with the media, and how he would be likely to hold up in that market? Or, did he assume that because Bradley played in L.A. that everything would be fine – while forgetting that L.A. is much more a basketball down than a baseball town?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 30, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on DGU...
…you can’t tell me there wasn’t boatloads of evidence that showed this guy’s pattern of behavior over many years.
On top of that, he also proved he was unlikely to play all too often, because he likes the DL as well as being an asshole. Ain’t it something he chose to play a lot of games in 2009 when he needed to for the last two years to be guaranteed? Let’s see how much he plays next year when that incentive is gone.
Hendry took a gamble here and it blew up in his face, and there is no other way to put it.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 29, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys are taking a leap in reasoning.
No one’s arguing that Jim Hendry shouldn’t have expected MB to be fiery and self-centered. In fact, the Cubs pre-season said they needed that type of personality to break out of their current roll-over w/o caring mode.
The leap is going from 1) MB is a self-centered jerk to 2) MB is going to be so much of a problem that it will suck the heart (or 10 wins) out of this team. Considering that MB has been on playoff teams and winning teams before, I don’t see how you establish #2 ahead of time.
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 30, 2009 7:11 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
How about talking to players who were his teammates?
It doesn’t seem as if Hendry did that. Even in Texas, where he supposedly got along with everyone (most famously, Josh Hamilton), reports were that by the end of 2008, most of the Rangers were tired of Bradley’s act.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 30, 2009 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again
There’s a difference between being tired of a co-worker and having a co-worker destroy office productivity. I think everyone on this board has had the experience of working with someone who was self-centered and disliked. That’s life. You learn to work together because that’s what you’re paid to do. But I can’t come up with a story in Bradley’s storied past that is on the level of this Cubs one. It’s possible what happened in Cleveland was on this level and they were just quieter about it. But that was also several years ago.
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 30, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again...
… the stories we have heard in public are perhaps 20% of what goes on behind clubhouse doors. The other 80% — well, that must be what Hendry alluded to when he said that Bradley’s outburst to Bruce Miles was the culmination of a lot of things.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 30, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again
I’m not saying MB wasn’t bad. But the consequences with the Cubs went beyond anything that happened with Oakland, LA, and SD.
Both Rich Harden and Chad Gaudin had played with Milton Bradley in Oakland. What’s more likely – that Jim Hendry never talked to his players about MB or that he did and heard that MB didn’t do anything that you couldn’t deal with?
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 30, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to nitpick here Al...
… and i’ve stopped trying to see / show the possible positives in MB here (and how i think the Cubs dropped the ball as much as he did) since the suspension… but i don’t get how you can continuiously claim this:
the stories we have heard in public are perhaps 20% of what goes on behind clubhouse doors. The other 80%
Where do you get those numbers? How do we know we didn’t see 15%, or 25%? That number is being used as if its almost fact here now, but i’ve seen no indication to support it. As far as we know, we saw everything that took place, and the whole situation was what it was seen as. That likely isn’t the case, sure… but wild speculation that he was 5x worse than we knew seems unfounded and unnecessary.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Nov 5, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're seriously...
… going to quibble with me about whether we’ve heard 15% or 20% of what goes on behind clubhouse doors, as if there’s a stat category for that?
The point is, we don’t hear the VAST MAJORITY of what goes on behind clubhouse doors. I believe Jim Hendry when he says that the statements for which Bradley was suspended were the end result of many different things that happened, some of which we know, most of which we don’t and probably never will.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Nov 5, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I want to see pie graphs breaking down exactly what % we actually knew!!!
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Nov 5, 2009 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here you go.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Nov 5, 2009 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot
What Blou knows.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Nov 5, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The quibble isn't over 5% difference...
… the quibble is over you placing a number on it as if its fact.
I understand you believe that what we heard was the tip of the iceberg. But without any real evidence as to what else it was that took place, assigning an arbitrary number to it seems ridiculous.
I’m sure things went down that we aren’t aware of. I’m not sure four things happened that we didn’t hear about for every one thing we did.
As a noted Bradley hater, it just seems disingenuous to state that (repeatedly now) unless you have something to offer us to back it up.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Nov 5, 2009 6:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again...
… it was just an estimate, intended to say “we don’t hear the vast majority of what goes on in a major league clubhouse”.
If you really took me seriously at “20%”, thinking that I had actually quantified each occurrence and made a list, that’s just as ridiculous.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Nov 5, 2009 6:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I ignored it the first dozen times you made the claim...
… it just seems that at some point, you are piling on.
Even if the “tip of the iceberg” assertion is correct in MB’s case, why go out on the limb of repeatedly stating 20%? After a certain number of times, it stops looking like an off the cuff “estimate” as you state, and starts to seem like a claim, and then even a fact.
Saying it once, one thing. Repeating it on multiple occasions in multiple threads over multiple weeks may not cause me to take it seriously, but others may be swayed by your estimate, which is backed up by very little.
It makes sense to blast him for what we know. Why take it past that?
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Nov 5, 2009 10:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the quibbling is with the 15% or 20%
but with the assertion, that a percentage can be placed on what we as fans know for certain happened and can suspect happened.
I think it might be easy to believe things were much worse behind the scenes, but it’s a stretch for us to allow our beliefs about the situation to morph into fact.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Nov 5, 2009 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
Thank you. Should have read this before i typed up the same thing far less eloquently.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Nov 5, 2009 10:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I think you typed it first and I missed it. Either way I see your point.
All I know is I know nothing.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Nov 6, 2009 2:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve also read different stories about how Hamilton and MB had a decent to good friendship when MB was on the Rangers.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Nov 6, 2009 2:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So THAT's why Hamilton fell off the wagon last year! Bradley was gone!
/sarcasm
(see: Soto, Geovanny and Blanco, Henry)
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 6, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you assume he didn't?
I think you’re getting confused about the Rangers thing. There was no bad blood there until Bradley admitted after the season that he sat some games to improve his numbers for free agency.
by Wreckard on Oct 30, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Possibly so.
That wasn’t revealed until after Bradley signed.
I still think Hendry didn’t do his due diligence. I can’t imagine he’d have made this signing if he had.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 30, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why? He's never burnt a bridge anywhere near this badly
by Wreckard on Oct 30, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oakland was as bad or worse
He wanted to fight Beane.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 30, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that it matters
But I wouldn’t be surprised if he wasn’t the first one. Beane is not known for his people skills either
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Oct 30, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, lots of Beane's former players hate him
Especially injury-prone ones; they seem organizationally unsympathetic to injuries, and don’t seem to have the quality of training staffs that other teams do.
by Wreckard on Oct 30, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's all business in Oakland
If you are hurt, you don’t produce, you gone
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Oct 30, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cleveland? Oakland?
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Oct 30, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you honestly think Hendry gave someone $30 million without "doing his homework"?
by Wreckard on Oct 29, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember the reports that they went to dinner together.
Hendry came back and said they talked about all of the past issues and why they wanted him and why it would be a good fit and how Bradley told him he’s not REALLY like what all those other teams thought of him.
Makes me think of them going on a first date where the guy tells you about how of his previous long-term relationships ended badly but how it was really the other person’s fault. Then once you start dating for a while (sign the contract) and maybe even make plans to go on vacation together or after meeting each others families, things start to fall apart. You realize that no, those other people weren’t the crazy ones and you can’t think of a way to get out of the relationship fast enough
www.fivetoolfans.com
by mykalmorgan on Oct 29, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sounds like exactly what happened.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 29, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do now, yes.
See mykalmorgan’s comment . . .
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 29, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And why is that so unbelievable, given the contracts presented to:
Aaron Miles
Joey Gathright
Glendon Rusch
Neifi Perez
?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 29, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, Neifi won a gold glove once!
And Joey Gathright used to be able to jump over cars! And Glendon Rusch can pitch balls that can be hit a LONG way!
The Aaron Miles signing? Inexplicable.
www.fivetoolfans.com
by mykalmorgan on Oct 29, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miles
What’s scrappier than beating the crap out of your armed assailant?
That’s all I’ve got . . .
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 29, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose the Cubs did need to increase their "scrap" factor.
www.fivetoolfans.com
by mykalmorgan on Oct 29, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
eeeh ...
I wouldn’t put Glendon in that group. He’d been very good in 2004 and 2005 before getting a new contract. But two years? What the hell?
by elgato on Oct 29, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two years is why he is in that group
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 29, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did his homework...
…but the type of homework Hendry does is unique to Hendry.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 29, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe, but...
… obviously, Bradley’s production or potential production is not the issue here.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 29, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a lesser player? maybe
But Rowand can play center — which Milton can’t really do. And he doesn’t have injury issues or personality issues.
I’d do Bradley and Miles for Rowand in about two seconds.
by elgato on Oct 29, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wreckard has laid the challenge down -
What is the best deal we can come up with that makes sense for the other club? I hope to come up with something later.
For now, what about this – would the D’backs trade both Chris Young and Eric Byrnes for Milton Bradley?
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you want a deal that makes sense...
…you almost have to limit it to AL clubs.
It’s not that Bradley is Dunn-esque in the outfield – at least I don’t believe he is. But assuming the other club has already assessed and mitigated the attitude factor, then the second biggest concern is the injury factor. And the more time Bradley is on the field, the greater the chance for injury.
At the same time, I don’t think Bradley would be too happy being a full-time DH – and I think we’ve seen what he’s like when he’s not happy. So an AL club with a rotating DH/OF spot opening would seem to be the place to start.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 29, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He seemed pretty happy as a full-time DH in Texas...
http://www.fivetoolfans.com
by mykalmorgan on Oct 29, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was DHing to get in the batters' box sooner
as he was recovering from surgery and playing sooner than expected.
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In general, yes.
But there are teams like the Marlins I see as exceptions. The Marlins don’t seem to give a second thought to defense. Also, a team that doesn’t expect to contend and only wants to flip Bradley after he restores value can afford to play Bradley at a very relaxed schedule. Finally, teams that need to take risks to contend next year may see Bradley as worth it. The AL is ideal, but I don’t think the market is limited to the AL.
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A perfect team for Bradley - roster wise - is the White Sox.
So, the question is – would Kenny not want to bring Milton across town because the bad feelings, the angry fans, and the bloodthirsty media are all still here. Or would he love the challenge and the ability to say, “We’re going to show Milton Bradley, and the world, what kind of city Chicago really is, that we have the best and most supportive fans,” etc.
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh you know he'd love the challenge...
…but this might be one of the few times where Reinsdorf would have to step in and sign off on this. And he’s tougher to read than Kenny.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 29, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be an interesting move in crosstown PR
Brilliant really. The Sox would be smart to make that move IMO. For both on the field and off the field reasons.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Oct 29, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So do you think the Chicago media would buy into that storyline
or would they (or not all of them, but enough of them) want to watch Milton crash and burn all over again?
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that the Sox media and fans would latch onto the storyline
especially if Williams said something like that quote you put above. If Milton put up a good season they would look like geniuses and would make the Cubs look awful.
I think most of the media that doesn’t like Milton are Cubs beat writers. Maybe Rick Morissey writes a column or two about it, but really I think the day to day Sox writers would be in a win-win situation.
The thing that would make me hesitate if I’m the Sox is that Ozzie and Milton might have some issues. From a Sox PR standpoint a good season from Milton Bradley in a Sox uniform would be wonderful.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Oct 29, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright, so the Sox will take him.
If they offer Rios 1 for 1, do you do it?
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
by N Oakley on Oct 30, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
because its stupid to turn Milton bradley into a worse player and worse contract. I don’t understand why anybody would want to.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Oct 31, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Likeable players >> winning
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Oct 31, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So that does mean...
that you would rather have a player who is “an average defender”, and average hitter who is a club house cancer and enjoys causing rifts between not player and fans but fans and fans, or a an average player who is likable and offers not much more than team chemistry?
OBP isn’t the only thing you need to worry about when you have team dynamics.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Oct 31, 2009 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take the average player who is a jackass
Over the below-average player who makes you happy to cheer for.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Oct 31, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right Average
Average meaning middle of pack when it comes to hitting/defending. Which means there has to be another hitter that will be a FA who is average.
Why are people fighting so hard for a player, that even by their own account is just average. He is nothing special. He can be replaced. By a player without the attitude and off field issues.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Nov 1, 2009 5:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is not average.
He was average last season, in his career worst season. It was the only “average” season of his career.
Anyone who wants him back feels that not only will he be back to his above-average self next season, he’ll be better than any of the free agent or trade options available to replace him.
by Wreckard on Nov 1, 2009 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The D'Backs brass
has already met and discussed Bradley and decided they are not interested.
I suspect this is true of many teams.
by azjazzman on Oct 29, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do we have a list of teams that have said no to Bradley?
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Deals I think would make sense for both clubs:
Assuming that this turns into a bad-contract-for-bad-contract deal (and not an eat-a-lot-of-money-for-prospects deal):
Pat Burrell (I don’t actually think this deal would actually make sense for the Cubs. But the Rays would do it and it seems like the most likely)
Kerry Wood (makes PR sense for the Cubs, though not baseball sense)
Jeremy Bonderman
Deals I’ve seen mentioned here that I don’t think have much chance of happening:
Aaron Rowand
Curtis Granderson (let’s be realistic)
Magglio Ordonez
Vernon Wells (Blue Jays would have to eat $65-70M of that contract for it to make sense)
Carlos Silva / Gary Matthews Jr / Eric Byrnes / any other sub-replacement level player owed a ton of money
by Wreckard on Oct 30, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bonderman is likely the most we can reasonably expect
I think Ordonez is much more likely than you seem to think too
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Oct 30, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Ordonez thing makes sense on its face
…but, and this is 100% speculation, if the Cubs can’t take on an additional $10M in payroll in 2010, which I don’t think they can, I’m not sure it would work. Assuming the Tigers need to lower payroll in 2010, trading for Bradley wouldn’t help, as they wouldn’t see any savings until 2011.
by Wreckard on Oct 30, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not Rowand?
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 30, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 reasons
1) I’m not sure it makes sense for the Cubs to take on an additional $12M of bad contract to get rid of Bradley’s bad contract
2) SF has expressed disinterest in Bradley
I also am not sure if the trade would make baesball sense for the 2010 Giants, unless they think Winn is still an every day center fielder (I don’t think Lewis is good enough defensively to play center). But they’d probably try one of those things to get out of those last $12M in contract.
by Wreckard on Oct 30, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't Winn a FA now?
I hadn’t heard that SF expressed disinterest in MB. I figured they at least had experience with big production tied to personalities that don’t like the media and don’t necessarily get along with all teammates.
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 30, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winn is a free agent, but I don't see him going anywhere but SF
He wants to stay, and I would imagine the Giants want him back.
My mistake on the club disinterest though – I misread the article. The Giants haven’t expressed disinterest in Bradley; it was the writer speculating that they wouldn’t want to deal with his “chemistry issues”.
by Wreckard on Oct 31, 2009 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you've summed it up pretty well...
… and I would expect that the Cubs have probably already had discussions about most, if not all, of those players.
As I said elsewhere, I would not be surprised to see a deal announced shortly after the World Series ends.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 30, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Toronto Sun reports
today that there is a very strong possibility that V. Wells is coming to the Cubs and Bradley will be a Blue Jay…………
by If we only had Hubbs on Oct 31, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I said in the GMJr post
I’ll say it here again. The Cubs have destroyed any and all value Milton Bradley had when they suspended him, at that point he became untradeable. The only thing the Cubs can get back is a bad player with a worse contract that is more likely to cripple the team’s payroll for next season than help the team on the field.
Would you rather have the team pay Pat Burrell or Jeremy Bonderman $21 million for one season or suck it up and have to watch Milton Bradley for one more season? $21 million for a guy who would be a pinch hitter or an injury prone pitcher who also happens to be mediocre at best?
Gary Matthews Jr. is nearly as bad because he would manage the impossible task of blocking Sam Fuld for playing time. Vernon Wells deal would ruin the Cubs chances of winning for the next three years at least.
The point is there is no deal in which the Cubs get better on the field, and in some cases the returning player is worse than a AAA replacement. The clubhouse issue has to easier to solve than making a stupid trade, screw Ryan Theriot’s feelings. Guys like Lee, Ramirez, and Soriano are all pretty laid-back guys who are probably willing to forgive Bradley if they just get an apology.
Is there anybody here that would honestly not buy a ticket because Milton is on the team? Cancel season tickets over it? The Cubs shouldn’t care because they will still sell those seats every game like they do every year. The boo-birds will die off when Milton goes back to producing at his career numbers (which btw he did for most of the season, but that isn’t the point here), anybody that is booing after that is just be ignorant and stupid.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Oct 29, 2009 5:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not opposed to finding a way to return MB; I just don't think it's going to happen.
But I don’t buy that the trade value is zero. How is what JH did to MB worse than what the Angels did to Guillen?
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As i'd stated here continuiously both after and prior to his suspension...
… with a little finesse and work on the part of both MB and the Cubs, it COULD work. Make some PR moves, put him in anger management for a while, show him working out / joking around with some well liked guys, get him to do some remorseful interviews, and many (especially the more passive fans who base most of their reactions off whatever the media fools tell them, fairly or not) may give him a second chance.
The hard part would be pinning MB down in a way that would force him to make the most of that second chance. I wrote that the cubs need an alpha dog, somebody MB (and others) would be scared to screw with (think Moss / Brady on the Pats, Rodman / MJ & Phil Jackson on the Bulls), and i don’t think that guy is coming this off season. Pinella SHOULD be that guy, but doesn’t seem to have the fire anymore, beyond the one well publicized fight which it seems he didn’t handle well either.
If the team can turn him in to something that makes sense, great. But i’ll be salty if they take on an Magglio Ordonez or something that doesn’t help the chances of winning and costs more just to get rid of MB. That is the easy way out.
The GOAL is to win, and the GOAL of the off season is to make the team better. Getting worse to ditch MB would be silly.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Nov 5, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if - and that's a humongously huge if - your scenario ever came about...
…I know the perfect alpha dog for the job – ex-Cub, Glenallen “You Will Respect My Authority” Hill. He was a coach with the Rockies last season – not sure if he’s still under contract or not. If he is, I say we offer Heilman to the Rockies as compensation.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Nov 5, 2009 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And Miles.
We only have room for one Aaron on our team: Rowand.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Nov 5, 2009 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure of the history here...
… does MB have any friends out there in baseball that might have a calming effect on him? Guys he’s played with that kept him a little more sane?
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Nov 5, 2009 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't seem so...
… or he wouldn’t have worn out his welcome at seven different stops.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Nov 5, 2009 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like he has...
… Dodgers pitcher Jeff Weaver. Welp, that doesn’t help.
http://trueslant.com/georgecastle/2009/09/07/hes-a-friend-of-milton-bradley/
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Nov 5, 2009 10:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
bradley for ethier
GETITDONE JIM
"hey
by jesus christos on Nov 5, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I heard he was the only guy that
Would go to alcohol free places with Josh Hamilton. Maybe they became good friends. The cubs aren’t gonna get him anyway.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Nov 5, 2009 10:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops! Guess I should have read all the new comments before posting above.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Nov 6, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This assumes MB wants to change
and that is a very big and based on his career, an unwarranted assumption.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 6, 2009 8:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt.
It’d be nice if when the contract was written, provisions had been put in that would… ehm… incline him to want to change, or help him to change.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Nov 6, 2009 9:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it would matter
MB is not rational.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 6, 2009 5:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs will end up paying
too much of Milton’s contract because people have convinced this franchise that he is a CLUBHOUSE CANCER. (That cancer really hurt DLee, didn’t it? … Rest of the team’s problems weren’t his fault) I echo the other FanPost saying they need to keep Bradley. He is a very useful player to have.
DGU mentioned the fact that the Giants could use Milton’s OBP.. Well the Cubs’ OBP dropped by 20 points from 2008 to 2009. Apparently, the rest of the hitters forgot how to get on base. The Cubs could use the OBP help too.
by LetsMakeADeal on Oct 29, 2009 6:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Looking at the Mariners' roster (and their freed up $$$)
Bradley would help them, and not just Bradley, but they could find a place for two of the other players I expect we’ll move. What would the Mariners give for Bradley, Fox, and Fontenot combined (with no cash sent over)? Fox could stand in at 3B as an option if Tuiasosopo turns out to need more AAA time. Additionally, dealing for Bradley together with Fox and Fontenot allows the M’s to sell the deal as more than just about Bradley. If you were the M’s would you trade Jose Lopez or Brandon Morrow for that deal?
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 6:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Depends - what do the M's have at 2b behind Lopez?
I don’t make that deal thinking Fontenot is going to anything more than a utility guy – at best a platoon at 2B. So I don’t give up Lopez unless I’ve got an up-n-comer at 2B. Don’t really know how Morrow fits into their pitching plans but it wasn’t that long ago they were pretty high on him.
But regardless of that, there’s no way I make this deal unless there’s some cash coming over. Lopez only makes $2.3M next year with a club option for $4.5 in 2011 while Morrow is cost-controlled for the next several years. I don’t think Seattle is afraid of increasing payroll, but not for the likes of Bradley.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 29, 2009 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would Kansas City be interested in Bradley?
Maybe give up Teahen?
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Oct 29, 2009 6:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't over react...
…to the rumor of numerous teams wanting to talk about Bradley meaning the Cubs will end up with a fine deal.
I’d best most of these teams are just kicking the tires on a potential bargain (with the Cubs picking up most of the freight). When it comes to actually pulling the trigger on a deal, the Cubs will either be forking over large dollars to make it happen, or they will will recieve expensive crap in return.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 29, 2009 7:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The point of this exercise
is to try and see why he might be valuable from another team’s perspective; it’s not really reacting to the reports which have now been confirmed by other sources.
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Oct 29, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I gotcha...
…but I really think he will be valued much more by another club if the Cubs were picking up the bulk of the tab.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Oct 29, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Given today’s economy, political unrest in the Mideast, unstable oil prices, and heightened environmental concerns, there is absolutely no way you would ever see me behind the wheel of a Hummer.
Yet if I’m walking past a dealer and he’s got a sign out front that says “50% Off Dealer Cost”, I admit I might stop and look. And if that 50% is crossed out and replaced with a 75%, I might be intrigued enough to take it for a test drive. Still not a chance I would buy it, but someone else who would have said “no way” in the beginning could very well change their mind when the sticker’s at 50-75% off.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Oct 29, 2009 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The World Series can't end soon enough for me
The intrigue and suspense is killing me on how Bradley will be moved.
by Nibbles on Oct 29, 2009 9:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It would not surprise me...
… to find a deal announced soon after the end of the WS. A deal may already be in place, but embargoed until the end of the WS.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 30, 2009 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
I’ll be somewhat shocked if Bradley is a Cub when management leaves Mesa next week.
by Damen Jackson on Oct 30, 2009 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nobody blames
bradley soley for the cubs crappy season. imagine 2nd place as a crappy season. a lot of players did not do their job. but a jerk is a jerk plain and simple. this guy is gone no doubt.
by NOMAR on Oct 31, 2009 8:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it's incredibly impressive that this team had a winning record
Despite down years from Soto, Soriano, Soto, and Bradley, almost every starter seeing DL time, and Ramirez missing half the season with a shoulder injury.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Oct 31, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
whoops
That second Soto should have read ‘Fotnenot’
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Oct 31, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soto did have a pretty bad year.
So it was worth mentioning him twice.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 31, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
CUBS TRADE BRADLEY TO PHILLIES FOR MASCOT
Eamus Catuli! AC0164101
by Matt Geiger on Nov 2, 2009 10:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Oh, that's just wrong.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Nov 3, 2009 7:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Could be worse...
what if he were wearing the alternate home blue jersey???
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Nov 4, 2009 9:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why Other Teams Should Want Milton Bradley?
After much thought and consideration I’ve come up with a list as to why any team would want MB:
Number 10: Will take the attention away from any PED user, paging Mr. A-Rod.
Number 9: Will ensure the undercarriage is always working on team bus, just ask any of his teammates.
Number 8: Will come cheap as the Cubs will be playing most of his salary.
Number 7: Knows most of the North America already; Texas Cleveland, Oakland, LA, Montreal, & San Diego.
Number 6: We keep manager in shape, having to keep wrestling back from umps.
Number 5: Will keep broadcasters on their toe and ready for any fights, I’m looking at you Mr. Lefebvre.
Number 4: Brings his own fan club; Just check this post to see who
Number 3: Will increase any team’s blog sites hits, Al thanks MB for all he has done for BCB.
Number 2: Is always good for a quote to increase sales of local papers; If onyl he had arrived 2 years ago the Tribute company would never have sold the Cubs!
And the Number 1 reason why other teams should want Milton Bradley:…..Chick’s dig the OBP!
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Nov 5, 2009 2:12 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
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