More From the Cubs in Winter Ball
This week's Cubs in Winter Ball Report
- The Mesa Solar Sox are 5-10 in AFL play, 4.5 games back of Phoenix in the AFL East. The Solar Sox are in 3rd (last) in the division, and have the worst record in the league.
- The MLB Network will air two live AFL games. Daron Sutton and Tony Clark will call the Rising Starts Game at Surprise Stadium on 7:00 CT on Saturday, November 7. Victor Rojas will join Clark to call the AFL Championship game from Scottsdale Stadium on November 21, a Saturday, at 1:30 CT.
- Starlin Castro is still tearing it up in the AFL. He leads the league in batting average at .419, way ahead of second place Grant Desme at .404.
- Castro also has 5 RBIs and 2 SB in his 13 AFL games.
- Welington Castillo has not looked too shabby either. He's showed off above average defense with his catching, and is hitting .357 in 4 games.
- Josh Vitters is hitting .351 in 9 games.
- On October 16th, Andrew Cashner allowed 3 ER on 3 hits in 2 innings in his AFL debut. From there, he's improved each outing allowing a run on 3 hits on October 22 and pitching 4 scoreless innings in his last appearance, October 28.
- John Gaub has gotten in to 5 games, and his ERA is 14.40 allowing 8 ER in just 5 innings.
- James Russell and Blake Parker, both upcoming relief pitchers, have pitched well. Parker has a 3.86 ERA in 6 games, Russell has a 2.57 in 5 games.
- Jeff Samardzija was strong yesterday. He picked up his second Mexican Pacific Leauge win as he allowed no runs on 4 hits in 6 innings, and struck out 7. Mexicali won the game 8-1.
- Jeff's Mexicali team is in 3rd place of 8 teams in their league. They hold a record of 10-8, just two games behind first place Mazatlan.
- Mexicali is managed by I-Cubs skipper Bobby Dickerson. There are 3 Cubs on the team plus Jeff.
- Brian Schlitter is 1-0 with a 5.40 ERA in 11 relief appearances.
- Brad Snyder, OF, is hitting .338 in 17 games with 3 homers and 17 RBIs.
- Matt Camp has a .342 batting average with 1 HR and 12 RBIs.
- Nelson Perez is playing for Toros of the Domican Winter League. He's hitting a stunning .448 in 9 games. Toros has a 7-4 record, tied for first in the league.
- Marcos Mateo, Cubs' minor league pitcher, allowed 3 runs in 2.1 innings in his only DWL appearance.
- Andres Blanco is hitting .311 in 14 Venezulan Winter Leauge Games. He has played mostly second base. He has 6 doubles, 2 triples, a homer, and 14 RBIs as well.
- Robinson Chirinos, who spent most of 2009 with Daytona, has a .467 average playing for the same team as Blanco. Robinson has 3 HRs and 11 RBIs.
- Larry Suarez is also pitching for Magallanes. He only has gotten into 1 game and did not allow a run. Their team has a record of 13-5, 0.5 games back of Caracas for first place in the VWL.
- Iowa Cubs lefty J.R. Mathes is pitching for first place Caracas. He has a 1-2 record and a 5.40 earned run average.
- Jonathan Mota (.350 AVG, 2 RBI), and Luis Rivas (.500 AVG, 2 Games) have also seen some VWL action.
Thoughts?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Don't be surprised
if James Russell is given another twirl as a starter, with Gaub/Mathes in the pen. There’s been some spec on that, and it makes sense. The arsenal’s too good to not give it another twirl as a starter. His fb command has come around a bit, and he still has a plus change and a good curve. Plenty of lefties have made it as starters on less.
by toonsterwu on Oct 31, 2009 6:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Castro stole #3 today
Unfortunately he also got picked off at 3rd
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Oct 31, 2009 7:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not sure if people were still checking out the other thread
Anyhow, I gotta finish my Cubs prospect list up in the next few weeks. This is basically the same post I made in the other thread. This is my rough top 15. May make a couple changes in the 11-15 area. Top 7 is pretty much set. Grades and quick comments, which will be expanded when I get a chance to work on it more and make it into a post. I’m debating a Top 30 or a Top 50 list this year to post.
1. Starlin Castro, B+. Here’s this year’s Tommy Hanson. He went to AFL, and his status went from great to potentially elite. The expectations are ridiculous now – above average power, solid to plus glove, excellent contact ability. Here’s hoping it comes to fruition, but what people are overlooking is that, if he simply maintains his contact ability and has a solid glove, this would be a potential AS shortstop anyways. There’s spec that Castro’s status may impact this offseason’s plans in some respects. He might crack some top 25 lists, but should be safely in the top 50. I’m guessing he starts in AA, but he should see time in Iowa next year, and could see time in the bigs. Don’t be absolutely stunned if the Cubs bring him up at midseason and ease him in by putting him in at 2nd base. A lot will depend on how the season goes. There was a 70 speed/70 arm report, which is just awesome ability, even if that seems a tad higher than other places.
2. Josh Vitters, B. He’s taken a bit of a beating. The flaws were always there, so it’s ridiculous for some folks to say that he was a top 50 prospect at midseason, and now, a borderline top 100 (and some minor league fans are making that claim). He was a bit overhyped on the Peoria performance, but he’s being a bit overly bashed now. The number 1 thing is to improve his discipline. That said, his AFL swing has been sweet, to say the least. Nice and easy, compact motion, and the wrists simply explode into the ball. Keeps a good plane. That said, he can’t survive at his current discipline rates. The walks are troublesome, but the more bothersome aspect is how few pitches he sees (3.2 or 3.3 P/PA). Maybe he’s an exception to the rule, but betting on exceptions is the fool’s gamble. If you look for him on top 100 prospect lists, he’ll probably sit in the 50-80 area. He’ll likely start in Daytona. Being in Daytona for most of the year isn’t the worst thing. I’d rather see them force him to adjust.
3. Jay Jackson, B. I imagine most of the other prospect lists will stick with Andrew Cashner here on account of his AFL performance. I’ll explain my Cashner thoughts later. While Cashner has a higher ceiling, Jackson is more consistent right now with his slider, and has a solid curveball and the change could be average. There’s still no serious mechanical issues (when I saw him, everything was nice and easy, and the control was fine … not great, but fine). The fastball, as expected, improved his velocity this year, and he sits more comfortably in the low-mid 90’s, while being able to run it into the upper 90’s if he reaches back. Okay, there are problems. I’m hoping the character issue is one of youth. I’m not sure what happened to the control, but it collapsed in his last month at AA. To the best of my understanding, after checking on it, he simply might’ve been overthrowing for some reason, which young pitchers are prone to do on occasion. If he makes top 100 lists, he’ll be on the back end, from 80-100. Look for him to start in AAA, and he should be up with the Cubs at some point, barring a collapse.
4. Andrew Cashner, B. He has the most ceiling in the Cubs system on the pitching side. With a plus-plus fastball, if he tightens up the rest, watch out. So don’t view the comments as a negative. He clearly struggled in AA, where he wasn’t able to dominate off the fastball. The slider wasn’t as consistent. Change showed improvement. Here’s the thing – he’s shown slider improvement in AFL, but I need a bigger sample size. The bigger issue is … can he be a starter? He made strides this year, but he was on pitch counts … and he still is in Arizona. I’m loathe to move him up the board until I get a definitive view on that, as I value starting pitching for more to pen arms. Look for him to start in AA … and he could be there for most of the year.
5. Hak-Ju Lee, B/B-. The potential is great, but the hype may be getting slightly ahead of the ability. It’s noticeable that some folks prefer a raw shortstop, like Jiovanni Mier, over Hak-ju, despite Mier still in the early infant stages of his career. A ton of projection left, and there may be some power. Plus speed (the esteemed AzPhil has said he is faster than Campana, who is blazing fast). Could be a solid fielder. There’s an advanced hitting approach. His offensive comparison may be similar to Che-Hsuan Lin with the Red Sox, if people want a possible model to look at (look at Lin’s adjusted lines). He can generate more power with a swing change, but I prefer him to stay the way he is. If he makes top 100 lists, he should be on the back end, anywhere from 70-100 perhaps. He should start in Peoria, where a bunch of Koreans are likely to be there (Rhee, Kim perhaps, Na perhaps, Jung perhaps).
6. Chris Carpenter, B/B-. Stuff was never an issue for this Carpenter either. With a fastball that can get into the mid-90’s and a plus breaking ball, ability was never a question. The change improved this year, but the question was always health. Well, so far, so good. Change and health are the two keys to watch next year. Look for him to start in AA, with a chance to be in AAA and/or the bigs later in the year. I don’t expect him on top 100 lists.
7. Brett Jackson, B-/B. On ability, he could go higher. I actually, unlike many others, was fine with this pick, but part of me thinks that Jim Callis is singlehandedly overhyping him (half joking). There’s a lot to love – the potential to stick in CF with a good arm, speed, some power. The K’s are still something to watch. I think he’ll start in A+ in 2010, with a shot to be in AA later in the year. He could perhaps range from 80-150ish on many prospect lists.
8. Kyler Burke, B-/C+. He had a monster year, he has monster potential, and he’s still young. He looks like a ballplayer as well. He has good OF range for RF (can pinch in CF), he has power, a strong arm (one of the best in the system) and for a power hitter, his discipline is fine. Has to generate more power against lefties. I think, and rightfully so, people want to see him at the next level, A+, after being at A. But he’s a guy that could move rapidly in a year. Look for him to start in A+. If he does well, AA is possible.
9. Ryan Flaherty, B-/C+. I actually wasn’t the biggest fan of him last year. He had some bad luck early, but he really had an excellent year, while closing his swing down. Development should count for something. If the contact ability he showed late is real, then he could be scary good. On power and defense alone, he’s a solid middle infield prospect. There are some statistical questions that can be raised, which I will get to later. ARL doesn’t bother me as much, as Daytona fell out so some guys that normally would’ve made a Peoria to Daytona trek didn’t. I think, as do many Cubs fans, that he will be in AA next year, although he could be manning third (3rd’s a bit empty and Vitters likely will stay at Daytona to start, barring a surprise). Could be a mover and shaker next year if he has a strong year.
10. Dae-Eun Rhee, *. I’ve always said that, if he came back and was throwing late in the year, I’d give him a “draft pick” nod. The potential is great – on potential ability, he may be the best arm in the system. He showed 3 solid pitches last year. Health is a big factor, particularly since there were questions before as to whether or not his frame could handle starting. Look for him to be in Peoria for much of the year.
11. Tyler Colvin, C+. He finished strong in AA, despite rehabbing at the start of the year and banging with Campana after he came back. Look for him to start in Iowa and be called up periodically.
12. DJ LeMahieu, C+. AzPhil has suggested that DJ could be fast tracked at 2nd base. I’ll be curious where he goes. I’m anticipating Daytona, but not sure. He’s a passable-solid shortstop who could be a good defensive 2nd baseman. The power is an issue. I don’t anticipate it developing without swing work, and I’m not sure it’s worth it if it risks sapping his contact ability (thin Murton).
13. Logan Watkins, C+. Former prep QB showed an advanced approach. He’s a good clubhouse guy who profiles as a top of the order possibility. Could be tried as an OF, and is an intriguing X-factor in our system. Bruce Miles has indicated that his Cubs sources are really high on him. He should be in Peoria next year, somewhat groomed with Lee.
14. Chris Archer, C+. Excellent year where the changeup showed improvement, and he still had a plus curve and a good low-mid 90’s fastball. Control is still an issue, and the delivery has made some question if he’s better off in the pen, allowing him to power his stuff through. He should be in Daytona’s rotation to start 2010.
15. Welington Castillo, C+. He had bad luck early, and finished strong offensively. Defense reportedly showed improvement (only saw him once, so that’s 2nd hand commentary). If he develops, could be anywhere from Henry Blanco-ish to Bengie Molina-ish. More work is needed, but he will likely be in Iowa (perhaps DH’ing when he’s not catching). Defense is the key, and if it gets better, he could be a factor in 2011.
Three quick thoughts:
1. The Cubs are … a positionally oriented system. Shocking isn’t it? After the top tier of arms, things drop off on the arm side a bit. I expect 2010 to focus on pitching early.
2. Love the direction of the system. Good diversity of skills in the system. Someone critiqued the system as lacking speed midseason. We have speed – the question is if they develop baseball ability that moves them up. But guys like Lee, Campana, Guzman, Valdez, and others are solid potential top of the order guys.
3. Love the up-the middle focus. We knew we’d get that with Wilken. Catcher’s a bit weak, but overall, the up-the-middle ability is solid.
Side comments:
a) I like the system, but I’m no fool. This isn’t an elite system. Certainly, even an elite system doesn’t mean much unless talent develops, but we still need more talent.
b) I try to judge on a variety of factors. Potential matters. Performance matters. Floor matters.
c) While I attend games, at the end of the day, I always say I’m a fan first. (Heck, I got to games for fun … don’t have any visions of being a scout.) This is a fan’s opinion more than anything. There are folks, like Raisin, O_O, Slam, that may have far more knowledge of the Cubs system than me. There are folks that could run me into the ground in a statistical debate.
by toonsterwu on Oct 31, 2009 7:32 PM CDT reply actions 8 recs
Another excellent post.
I love reading your take on our prospects- scout or no scout. :)
by Pat19 on Oct 31, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
toons....implications for Big League club this year and 3 years out
Let me start with the obvious: Castro; Cubs have Theriot there now, marginal and as you said Cubs could groom him at 2B by mid season which means they go into the season with Baker/Fontenot, but why do that, why not move him into SS and move Theriot to 2B w/Fontenot platoon?
Vitters has time unless Ramirez or Lee get hurt, but Cubs have Fox still no rush…
Cashner/Jackson. Cubs have long term deals with Z, Demp, have Wells in years before arb, this is Lilly’s last year on contract. They also have workingman arms with Marshall, Gordz and Samardz but they could be bumped with a real performer. If these arms continue to develop they could have impact. Question with the Chapman in the possible mix what does that portend?
That and whether Castillo is the next catcher and possible good platoon with Soto?
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Nov 2, 2009 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
quick replies
a) Why I suggest Castro may be tried at 2nd if he’s called up this year – short answer is, Lou likes Theriot and disrupting the defense at 2nd is less of an issue than at short. Furthermore, if Baker is the regular, he’s likely moving around, lessening the overall disruption. You’d have to feel awfully confident to bring in a kid to take over at short. I’m assuming the team hasn’t collapsed (if it has, then you can move Castro to short). I’d rather see Castro at short instead of Theriot, if Starlin is ready.
b) I’m really not sure Fox is a factor in much of the Cubs long term planning. I think Baker will take over the backup role at 3rd base.
c) None of our big 3 prospect arms are sure fire deals to develop into solid starters. I like them, but I’ll be ecstatic if one reaches their top potential. I really don’t see the Cubs in the Chapman mix, but I could be off. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jackson/Cashner/Carpenter, if they are ready, are slowly worked into big league life through pen roles. Thus, we might be looking at 2011 or 2012, if they develop, before we get an arm in there. Don’t know if that answers anything.
d) Much as I’m not discouraged by Castillo … he really needs to put together a good solid consistent year to be considered a possible challenger to Soto in 2011, if Soto struggles.
by toonsterwu on Nov 2, 2009 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I really don’t see the Cubs in the Chapman mix,
muskat agrees FWIW
"hey
by jesus christos on Nov 2, 2009 10:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Great post with solid insight
I have to admit that you have me leaning back to not hating Vitters as a prospect. I don’t know if anybody is as down on him as I am (not that I have a clue what I’m talking about anyway) I just worry about Cubs prospects (any prospect really) that doesn’t show patience at the plate.
As we’ve talked about before I expect Jay Jackson to make an impact in the bigs next season. In a dream world it might be that he dominates as a starter, gets a start, and then goes all Randy Wells on us. More likely he helps boost our bullpen mid-season or August. I have high hopes for him and agree with putting him above Cashner right now.
I also wouldn’t be shocked if Cashner got a big league call-up.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Oct 31, 2009 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
really?
that made you not hate Vitters?
I’d encourage everyone to go over to prospectinsider.com and see his video of Vitters. It’s the only easily accessible one for everyone. It’s really a nice swing. I mean … there’s plenty of big leaguers that don’t have that sweet of a swing. Granted, batting practice, but it’s easy to see why scouts might fall in love with him. After all, he rose that draft year primarily, iirc, off showcase events.
I can see Cashner get a callup. I mean, barring a collapse, I think he almost should get a September call up. Before that? It depends a lot on … well … how things go for him.
by toonsterwu on Oct 31, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the stuff from that last thread from you and Josh too
Look, if the offer comes around and a team wants Vitters odds are I make that deal. I think he is very likely to fail because of the patience issue and what he does or doesn’t do as far as sticking at third.
Is it just me or did his swing look a lot like A-Rod’s? Maybe it was just the high socks combined with watching the WS game right now.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Oct 31, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmm
watching the ridiculously long world series game, and it does seem like, on swing, that there are some similiarities.
by toonsterwu on Nov 1, 2009 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I use performance
to judge Vitters. I don’t care about how pretty his swing is. Phil Hiatt had one of the prettiest swings you had ever seen and he could create a “whoosh” with the bat that I never heard before. And that didn’t get him very far.
Vitters problem is his discipline. And your take is right on. The walks are troublesome and it’s his swingers mentality.
I know people “love” what their eyes see with him, but he will never reach his potential as he moves up levels by not cleaning up his discipline. I’ll give him a pass on his performance at Daytona, but will watch carefully as he repeats the level at the start of next year. He would rank below Cashner for me at settle in as C/C+ prospect.
by socalbob on Nov 3, 2009 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re:
I don’t even need to see him take some massive jump in walk % next year. That’d be nice, but a small increase would be fine as long as he’s seeing more pitches. When I saw those numbers, my jaw honestly dropped. 3.2 or 3.3 P/PA in the low minors is … bleh. If he doesn’t learn to take more pitches in the low levels, it’ll be hard to make the adjustment as he goes up, unless he’s some unique exception, which I wouldn’t bet on.
by toonsterwu on Nov 3, 2009 8:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Swingers Mentality?????
Don’t tell me we’ve got an orgy guy on our hands! He doesn’t even have the mustache!!!
by Mulhollandmania on Nov 5, 2009 7:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well
as we have heard numerous times with Vitters, “he’s only 20” so there is time to grow the stache.
by socalbob on Nov 6, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i hear the cardinals know how to grow good mustaches
"hey
by jesus christos on Nov 6, 2009 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
rasmus needs to follow him
he looks like a redneck with that mustache of his
"hey
by jesus christos on Nov 6, 2009 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are low on B Jax.
I see the top ten as follows
1. Castro
2. Vitters
3. B JAX
4. J Jax
5. Cashner
6. Lee
7. Carpenter
8. Flaherty
9. Burke
10. Rhee
By the way which Korean kid is the power one?
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
by fischisgod on Nov 1, 2009 8:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dong-yub Kim
is the 5-tool Korean OF. Kyung-min na is the speedy, short CF with a good arm. Jae-Hoon Ha has moved back behind the plate at last report. Sung-Min Jung is a pen arm.
I like B Jax. Realistically, the difference between 2-7 in the system isn’t all that much. For me, it came down to the fact that the three arms all had good stuff and were a couple levels higher, while B Jax still had some K issues (SSS). Lee was an issue of positional value and only being a step behind. That said, sure I can buy B Jax at 3.
by toonsterwu on Nov 1, 2009 8:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I keep the Vitters comp of Howie Kendrick in mind
particularly because Kendrick took a while to establish himself. I think that we’ll need to be patient with Vitters – but he clearly has talent.
Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.
by DGU on Nov 1, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly hope he's like Kendrick.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Nov 1, 2009 7:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lets just hope
the Cubs can finally get some production from position players. It has been a long time coming.
by Grockcubs on Nov 1, 2009 7:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for this excellent post
A couple of comments / observations / questions:
Sounds like Vitters sort of compares to Mark Reynolds of the D-Backs. Big bat, little displine, suspect glove. I would be okay with this actually.
Casey Coleman? Where does he rank? How about Marquez Smith?
Finally, does anyone know where Billy Petrick or Nic Jackson are playing? Or if they are playing?
"We gotta circle the bandwagons." - Devin Hester
by Jose's Eyelid on Nov 1, 2009 8:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
re:
a) Reynolds, though, walks a ton in comparison to Vitters. 11.6%. I think there’s a slight difference between the two in that, Reynolds goes up to hammer the ball each time, while Vitters swing generates power, but I don’t think, from what I’ve seen and heard, that he goes up there to hammer it each time.
b) Smith’s more of a utility player if he makes it up to the bigs (able to play a touch of 2nd, 3rd, and probably could handle corner OF). I just don’t think the upside is good enough to force his way into the top 15, and his bat is more of a bench bat. His power is also more line drive power.
Coleman could crack some top 15 lists due to his season. Problem is, he doesn’t have the stuff to really project to be more than an end of the rotation arm. Nice diverse arsenal (high 80’s/low 90’s fb that generates some sink, mixes in a change and a curve) that could allow him to be in the bigs, but he needs a better swing and miss pitch. Maybe the cutter/slider that he’s working on while allow him, a weapon he showed late in the year. That said, Coleman’s mentality (from interviews) seems to suggest that he’s a guy who gets it, in regards to playing to his strengths and not overdoing things. For me, I try to judge on a balance of things, and while his floor is high, I’m not sure his ceiling is high enough. I could fully see/understand people sliding him in a top 15 though. Currently, I have him at 23rd, although that’s the 9th arm. Still a rough list.
c) Petrick was with an indy league team this year, iirc. Forget which one, though. Windy City Thunrderbolts perhaps. TBC shows Nic Jackson as having played baseball in the Atlantic League in 2008. My computer is stalling right now in loading up their webpage so I can’t check if he returned to them or not.
by toonsterwu on Nov 1, 2009 8:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
toon is right on
Reynolds is not an apt comp for Vitters.
Vitters uses the whole field and is more line drive or on plane with his swing. Reynolds is a fly-ball hacker.
by socalbob on Nov 3, 2009 5:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Castro's going to be a star
I can’t wait until he’s on the club
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
by berselius on Nov 3, 2009 9:06 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think so too
but there’s a lot of projection to go. That said, even if he doesn’t reach his peak, he’s still a potentially solid shortstop. As he gets older, he’ll hopefully stop reaching on some pitches. The main thing now is more consistency defensively.
by toonsterwu on Nov 3, 2009 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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