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2002 revisited, squared

2002 roster had Cub immortals like the ill-fated prodigy Todd Hundley, 6-finger Alfonsesca, (unfortunately he stayed) and Crime dog McGriff, in short they were not only unproductive and highly paid but also locker room poison assassins. Needless to say the team was more than disappointing, winning less than 70 games. That winter Hendry traded one very bad contract for two disappointing veteran contracts (Grudz who ended up re-claiming his career for another 5 years) and 1B Eric Karros. More than the statistical change that both veterans had in 2003, both players contributed mightily in the make up of the team and locker room. 


Star-divide

Looking at the 2009 Cubs there were two players of significance that need to be subtracted from the locker room are two key contracts; the obvious--- Milton Bradley "the daily "As the World Turns" and "I wonder, wonder who wrote that he was a superstar" Alfonso Soriano, totally almost $30M annually. Now remove them with players like the Luca proposed Burrell or Trib proposed Rowand and despite the stat heads discontent from past performances this team will begin to be right.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Can we stop......

With the trade Soriano stuff daily please. Not gonna happen, no way no how. Get over it and learn to live with the fact were stuck with him.

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on Oct 8, 2009 8:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

in a word....BULL_HOCKEY to quote 'Col Potter'

The will to make a deal is all that it takes. This is not about rotisserie “Fantasy Baseball” this is about managing an organization that made an enormous investment in and this is not going well at all.

This reply is to all those below——

Soriano is a failure. Originally signed to be a CF’er and lead off hitter that would be a difference maker he is a bust. He is a bust since he is a very high maintenance personality—-he can’t bat anywhere but his spot——BULL——period. (There is no crying in baseball, and that is crying without the tears).

Soriano is a poison because he is paid at the highest and delivers much less———period. If you can’t see that than you are not looking too hard.

Now for the poster who accused some sort of racial bias——BIGGER BULL HOCKEY, this is about results, not whether one’s family’s heritage blocks more vitamin D or not, it is about performance.

Soriano stinks in the OF, he has alligator arms when it comes to going back to the warning track, he has a great arm, accurate and strong, but he gets the worst jump on balls especially to his left.

Now who would take him.. Depends on the price doesn’t it? Most teams will look at 30 plus HR’s and that he was hurt and should not have been playing retrospectively, so it will take $$ but it can be done and Soriano the mercenary he is, will take some incentive to move off his no trade.

Bottom line is when you manage a payroll you also manage the psychology of the team, pay the most and you had better get the most. That is the cancer. In my mind Lee and Ramirez should be paid the most, but if it is Zambrano so be it, he is a pitcher.

Now during this off season all things point to ridding the team of these decisions that have bad outcomes….period. Then after that making sense of what you have and what you need. It is that simple——-

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Oct 9, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He had a down year.

Were you complaining this much in ’07 when helped carry the team into the playoffs? Or last season when he had an OPS over 1.0 in two separate months?

He’s a frustrating guy to watch the play the game. We get it. But don’t blow things out of proportion by calling him a poison and a cancer. He’s not. He’s a quirky ballplayer who can do great things when he’s on and who looks awful when he’s off. He took a contract that the market at the time gave him.

I also disagree that “The will to make a deal is all that it takes.” No, a reasonable deal that doesn’t further cripple the team financially is all it takes – and Hendry probably isn’t going to get that.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 9, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your argument

appears to be that if you are overpaid you are a poison. Am I being unfair?

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 10, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

technically yes

you left out the “delivers much less” part, which I take to mean that IW believes Soriano is vastly underperforming as it relates to his salary. Obviously that part is (and has been) subject to much debate but I believe it’s germane to IW’s argument.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The question, then,

is whether guys with elder statesman reps, like Todd Helton, are “cancers.”

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 10, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and "mule fritters"

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buffalo Bagels

Along with horse hockey, two of my favorites.

"This next song... it's about the White Sox. It's called: F*** Em'." - Eddie Vedder

by PacificCub on Oct 10, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Geez

havent heard this in like hours, trade Bradley and Soriano. We should discuss this into depth to get everybodys opinions. I agree stop with the trade suggestions we all know.

"Women...you can't live without them, and they can't pee standing up." Rube Baker

by Eric16 on Oct 8, 2009 8:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I just had a thought

maybe trading Bradely to Seattle is a possibilty. We’ve trade with them before and with Griffey retiring, they should have an opening at DH. Seattle is laid back and I could see Bradely getting along there. Maybe they should shop him there.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Oct 9, 2009 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Laughable.

Comparing a 67 win team a 83 win team is idiotic. I don’t know where to begin. Go. A. Way.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 8, 2009 9:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Dude,

Ivy is a Long time member and writes good stuff. He isn’t a rookie poster and what you just wrote was incredibly rude. Chill out.

"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray

by Archie on Oct 9, 2009 7:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rude like posting fail pictures below?

And I don’t care if he’s a rookie poster or a veteran poster, it’s a stupid comparison and deserves to be called out.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 9, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soriano isn't known as a "clubhouse cancer."

It seems a lot of people are eager to brand a guy a cancer if he’s black. You suggest replacing two blacks guys with two white guys. Now maybe that’s just coincidence. But I think white people (and I’m assuming you’re white) still have a few miles to go before they begin to let black players endure a mediocre stretch or perhaps do a couple of foolish things without branding them as flawed human beings.

Joe, you coulda made us proud!

by copingwiththecubs on Oct 8, 2009 9:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Do you really want to go there?

I’ve read where Miles and Fotenot should be replaced by Lopez and Hudson, so does that mean that certain fans are racist toward white people?

Or maybe it just means they want a different player because they don’t like the player

I’m not saying, I’m just saying.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Oct 8, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holy Irony, Batman!

You infer someone is a racist without knowing the person because he doesn’t like a couple of players.

You assume the person is white because the person made what you feel is racist comments.

You generalize “white people” and say they are racist.

You declare Soriano black because he isn’t white. Soriano is Dominican.

You were right about Soriano not being known as a clubhouse cancer . . . thus ruining your perfect score of epic fail.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 8, 2009 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

ok...

… well I was about to support you when I saw the title of your post, but the rest of it was stupid drivel. Bradley is a clubhouse cancer and this has been inferred to by a wide variety of Cubs, Black, White and Hispanic. Soriano is not known as a clubhouse cancer and really hasn’t been labled as one by the general public. Ivy mentioned him because, well, he’s Ivy and his posts lack substance and factual content. So put the race card away, please.

by dmlichte on Oct 8, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments like these

Make me wish there was a way to “anti-rec” comments.

Baseball players have come and gone, of many different skin colors and races. Every time you claim fans are racist because they’re critical of a player when he’s in a slump, you push back REAL dialogue about how to fix the problems between races.

Derrek Lee has gone through several slumps in the last several years. All sane Cubs fans still agree that he’s one of the best players on the team, as well as one of the classiest.

"Hey! If the moon were made of ribs, wouldja eat it? I know I would!"

by cubs0505 on Oct 9, 2009 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I automatically brand a guy a Cancer

if he’s born between June 22 and July 23. Otherwise, I need more information.

"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa

by Goodie1969 on Oct 9, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dec 21, am I a Sag or a Cap?

Depending on the calendar, I can be either. I usually just pick the one I like better.

by Arbusto on Oct 9, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gemini, baby!

Gemini, baby!

"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa

by Goodie1969 on Oct 9, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How else do you think I catch all those home run balls?

I shoot them down with my arrows and then gallop over to where they fall and pick them up.

Sagittarius all the way!

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 9, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

...

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 9, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like Arbusto, I am on the borderline, only a month earlier

Nov. 22, Sag or Scorp

"That’s what I love about my skip, man. He’ll tell you that you suck...I know I suck. We know we suck...Yeah, we suck. But we’ll see who sucks at the end."
- Gary Sheffield

by DrGalazkiewicz on Oct 10, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to trade for an Aquarius

♪♫When the moon is in the Seventh House, And Jupiter aligns with Mars, Then peace will guide the planets, And love will steer the stars♪♫

"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Oct 9, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This post begs for the Unrec button

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Oct 8, 2009 10:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, it wasn't one of his better efforts

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 8, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have emailed SBN TWICE about an "Unrecommend" button, akin to Digg.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 9, 2009 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I did not infer that the poster was a racist...

I was simply raising the question.

I’ll continue to root around for incipient racism, especially since the charge has been leveled too many times in the last few years to ignore. Dusty, Hawkins and Bradley, to name three, all have been failures here. Yet each of them has had to hear the N-word dropped on him. Why? When Gregg and Heilman stink the joint up, do they have to endure racial taunts?

So don’t be stupid or willfully baffled about the point I raised. If you think racism doesn’t exist then you’re living on a different planet than I do.

Joe, you coulda made us proud!

by copingwiththecubs on Oct 8, 2009 10:58 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

+1 and rec'd

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Oct 9, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

tinted

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Oct 9, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something also has to be said

About some of the people who come to Cubs games on a Thursday at 1PM and makes those comments. Maybe some of these guys don’t have jobs. Aren’t intelligent enough to keep their mouths shut.

It’s completely wrong to hear these things said but for a second lets think about the type of people who might be saying it. Uneducated losers.

You got those type of people everywhere and I’m sure if you go across these sort of message boards you’ll find that every team has dealt with this.

I’ll never condone it but I don’t think it’s anything that will or can change.

by ak123 on Oct 10, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Over and over it's been brought up that there have been racist taunts at Wrigley.

If anyone on this site is out there denying it, I haven’t seen him/her.

Ivy Walls did a dumb thing and labelled Soriano a clubhouse cancer likely because he’s overpaid, doesn’t dive for balls, and hasn’t learned to lay off the outside breaking pitch, among other things. These things usually lead someone to believe said player is lazy, and thus a cancer. We all agree that he’s wrong.

But if you’ve made it your mission to to “root around” for the beginnings of racism, often times you’ll find things you could somehow construe as racist. Many of those times you’ll be wrong, and you’ll be hurting people of all races in doing so. Racism IS a serious issue; don’t throw it around so carelessly.

by shoemile on Oct 9, 2009 1:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps Sori isn't a "cancer"

but he’s a selfish player. By selfish I mean he doesn’t do everything for the good of the team. He at times puts himself ahead of the team.

He may be a likable player, which I believe is so. He’s a good person, he’s just not the best team player.

AND the thing that amplifies this the most IS his salary. He will be a lightning rod for folks calling him out as an underachiever more often BECAUSE he makes an obscene amount of money.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Oct 9, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, you're right.

If we look for racism in every nook and cranny, we may well see it when it isn’t there. It’s like the witch hunters of the 50s who saw communists under every bed.

Nevertheless, there still exist things like the “scrappy white guy” stereotype player who too many white guys love and think every team should have but in reality really blows (cf. David Eckstein.) It’s a Great White Hope kind of thing.

And I still stand behind my conviction that too many people come down really hard on black guys, whether they realize it or not. And no need to remind me of Aaron Miles or Todd Hundley, et al. Again, I’m not saying Ivy Walls, all Cubs fans or all sports fans are guilty of this.

BTW: ask a White Sox fan what he/she thinks of Ryne Sandberg and it’s a good bet they’ll say he shouldn’t be in the Hall of Fame “because he never dove for the ball.” Funny thing is, they’re right — he never needed to dive for the ball because he always positioned himself properly and he realized that diving for the ball is a low-percentage move that can also result in the kind of nagging injury that screws up a guy’s whole season. Anyway, my point is, nobody ever accused Ryno of not being a team player. Quite the contrary, in fact.

Joe, you coulda made us proud!

by copingwiththecubs on Oct 9, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, let's round up all the scrappy white guys and execute them, then!

That’ll solve the problem.

Nevertheless, there still exist things like the "scrappy white guy" stereotype player who too many white guys love

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 9, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you read my full response...

or are you just responding to a quote you’re pulling out of context?

Joe, you coulda made us proud!

by copingwiththecubs on Oct 9, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I read the whole thing

And there was a modicum of reason in it. But you negated it with that sentence.

It almost seemed as if you realized in retrospect that your original statements last night were over the top and made an effort to acknowledge that while defending the position.

I’d certainly agree with you that racism still exists and it still sucks. But as others have written here, to claim you see it everywhere really trivializes something that actually hurts people.

And, while I’ve seen players referred as “scrappy” on this blog frequently, your comment above is the first time that the adjective “white” was used in conjunction. Hell, I’d describe Bobby Scales as scrappy – and not derisively (like I do Theriot).

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 9, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why not bring up Hundley or Miles?

They’re both players who were/are serious disappointments, and thus have been treated as such. Just like any other player, regardless of race. Were they recipients of racial slurs? Probably not, but I doubt either one would think twice if someone were to rip them for being white; it’s not an issue in our society.

When an overpaid guy like Soriano misplays an easy fly ball, people get upset. There are some people who feel the need to express their disgust in the form of racial slurs. Obviously these people are scum.

I don’t think people turn on a player like Bradley or Soriano because of their skin color; I think they do because they don’t live up to expectations. I’d venture that this is why Ivy Walls mislabeled Soriano as a cancer, and not because of his race.

by shoemile on Oct 9, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed on your analysis completely.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 9, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For my own sanity

I plan to ignore your blatent, ignorant accusations of racism and simply focus on one point here. Soriano most certainly IS a selfish player. He is because he makes decisions like being dishonest about injuries despite the fact that he was costing this team Ws. Of course, in a season like 2009, he was in no way the only reason this team stunk (see the entire 2008-09 offseason).

Not diving for balls IMO, is, and always will be laxiness/poor play. Answer me this…why is it that we watch Sam Fuld, time and time again, sacrafice his body for the catch. Why are Fukudome and even Bradley laying out for balls and then over in left, we got a guy who will NOT LEAVE HIS FEET? Why does he cower in the presence of an outfield wall, be it brick or pads?

He is not a good defensive player and when he plays injured, he sucks even harder. HOW IS THIS NOT SELFISH?

So let me get this straight…you are comparing Ryno’s defensive skills to those of Soriano? You need a reality check pal, Soriano doesn’t dive cause the play isn’t important enough. Ryno was simply a great defensive 2nd baseman…period.

And just so I feel okay about myself, you calling the lot of us “whites” racist because we do not like Soriano, or Hawkins, or Dusty, or Bradley IS THE DUMBEST CRAP I’VE EVER HEARD!

As some already said, and is so often true…racism most certainly exists and partly because of paranoid, ignorant, jackasses like you.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Oct 9, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I repeat...

I did not accuse anyone of racism. If you’re going to make that kind of statement (and if you’re going to call me a paranoid, ignorant jackass), at least spell words like “blatant,” “laxness” and “sacrifice” correctly.

These hypersensitive protests about “the race card” etc. make me think I’ve hit the nail right on the thumb.

Also, I did not compare Soriano’s defense to Sandberg’s. But, then again, why am I even arguing with you. You resort to name calling. I made my original point and I stand by it.

Joe, you coulda made us proud!

by copingwiththecubs on Oct 9, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A nail has no thumb, it has a head.

"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa

by Goodie1969 on Oct 9, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correct

You implied that all white people are racist:

 “But I think white people (and I’m assuming you’re white) still have a few miles to go before they begin to let black players endure a mediocre stretch”

You also implied the poster had an alternate reason to replace MB and Sori other than their ability:

“You suggest replacing two blacks guys with two white guys. Now maybe that’s just coincidence.”

So do you state, “YOU ARE RACIST FOR WANTING TO GET RID OF BRADLEY FOR DUNN”? No, but it doesn’t take much thought process to get what you were saying.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Oct 9, 2009 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Society has made clear that racism is absolutely despicable, and to be referred to as a racist is a real indictment of one’s character. And hey, I got no problem with that stance.

But because of that, there’s a serious fear instilled in many people about being characterized as racist. So when someone even hints at the possibility (especially when it’s something like "well you don’t like a guy who’s black, so obviously you’re racist), people defend themselves with vigor. By just throwing out unsubstantiated inferences of racism, one is diluting the cause.

by shoemile on Oct 10, 2009 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"But I think white people (and I’m assuming you’re white) still have a few miles to go before they begin to let black players endure a mediocre stretch"

I will just throw this out there—Most Black people I know and there are many tend to play basketball,football, and soccer by choice not because anyone blocks their access!

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on Oct 10, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What do you mean that
over in left, we got a guy who will NOT LEAVE HIS FEET?

What do you call that hop of his?

"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Oct 9, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe we can compromise...

…and say he is willing to leave a foot.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 10, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, Soriano...

is black. A Dominican black, but black nonetheless.

Joe, you coulda made us proud!

by copingwiththecubs on Oct 8, 2009 11:01 PM CDT reply actions   2 recs

LOL

LET’S HIJACK THIS POST:

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Oct 9, 2009 12:02 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

But, I haz teh best!

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Oct 9, 2009 2:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Arrrrggghhhhhh

Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

by eths on Oct 9, 2009 2:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

...

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Oct 9, 2009 2:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Oct 9, 2009 6:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

...

"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray

by Archie on Oct 9, 2009 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Big oops

"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray

by Archie on Oct 9, 2009 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

post fail

"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray

by Archie on Oct 9, 2009 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Try again

Linky

"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray

by Archie on Oct 9, 2009 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Fail in the Boat

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Oct 10, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

...

"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray

by Archie on Oct 9, 2009 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe

no one has mentioned that boat on Gilligans Island.

Trade Doug Deeds to Washington.

by wild bill on Oct 9, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, since you asked....

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 9, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

♪♫ Sit right back and let's hear a tale...

…a tale of a fateful trip… ♪♫

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 9, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sooooooo...what is your ultimate point here, Ivy?

Are you saying the Cubs should trade Bradley for Burrell and Soriano for Rowand?

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 9, 2009 9:03 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Appears so

….and neither is such a bad idea.

Game board is a head case and has to go, we all know that. Burrell isn’t great but at least he’s stable.

Soriano should never see another fastball as long as he lives. And if that’s the case, I’d rather see Fox or Hoffpauir in there for him. But since neither of those are likely to happen, I’d take Rowand any day over Soriano. He’s a team player, something Fonzie knows nothing about.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Oct 9, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Attack Soriano's play, that's fine.

But where do you get “he’s not a team player”?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 9, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I can't agree that Soriano isn't a team player.

If anything, he’s too much of a team player – staying on the field when an extended rest or DL stint may have done him and the team the most good. Sure, you could characterize that as selfish, but I choose to believe he does it in an effort to help the team rather than himself.

In any case, an outfield of Burrell-Rowand-Fukudome/Baker doesn’t strike me as awful – assuming the two new additions can rejuvenate their bats.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Oct 9, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have to say...

That if were a betting man, I’d wager on Soriano to have a better comeback year over Burrell or Rowand. Now if you’re making the argument that it’s a financial decision, that’s a different story.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Oct 9, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd go for the Soriano for Rowand option

Save $5M per year for the next three years and $18M per for years 4 & 5. Rowand can play CF.

Reduces the danger of Soriano skills diminishing past usable in the later years. Frees up LF for a Hoffpauir or Fox.

I agree Soriano should have a better 2010 than 2009, but wtf.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Oct 9, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A team player...

works to correct things in his game that are not working. His improvement is the team’s improvement.

Has anyone seen the following from him when he’s slumping:

Change in plate discipline with 2 strikes? No, swings just as hard as pitch 1.
Shorter stroke on off speed pitches No, the same long, loping stab.
Maybe a lighter bat? No, especially important with the sore knee.
Going the other way with an outside pitch more often? No, still tries to pull it.
Going to the coaches with the injury sooner so the team can try other options? No, selfish

I have no doubt he’s a great guy and wants to win, but his approach hurts the team far more than it helps. It is that where I base my statement.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Oct 10, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe

the post is more about one person being upset with two particular under acheiving players. The reality of it is that Sori will not go anywhere, and hopefully Bradley goes somewhere.

Trade Doug Deeds to Washington.

by wild bill on Oct 9, 2009 12:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

soriano

i still think we should keep him but ship bradley to wherever and then get a guy like rowand but not burrel

by cubs guy on Oct 9, 2009 10:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think Jim Hendry would trade Alfonso Soriano if he didn't have to eat large chunks of the contract.

But why would anyone trade for him when the contracts given out this off-season should be shorter and for less money?

Let’s say, perhaps that all the big free agent OFs extend their contracts – Holliday in St. Louis, Bay in Boston, Damon in NY, Vlad in Anaheim – well, that would leave San Francisco seeking a middle of the order bat, but would they really make any trade for him other than Zito? And would you really rather have Zito? Perhaps if you buy the idea that he’s a cancer…

It would also leave the Mets, and maybe they’d go for some deal, but this is all built on a lot of ifs to begin with…

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Oct 10, 2009 10:22 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No

Sori was half injured for like 75% of the season this year. I’m expecting him to return to form next year. But could it be possible that Sori, like Tejada, lied about his age and is really 35 or 36?

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Oct 10, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soriano's age was already adjusted once...

… after 9/11. He was born in 1976.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 10, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

was definitive proof shown at that time, i.e. birth certificate or some other document?

If so, great – case closed.

If not, then it’s entirely possible that the real age could still be floating out there. Just because you ‘fess up, doesn’t mean the second answer is automatically right.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 10, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's the information.

Linky

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 10, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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