These Cards are playing like Cubs
Are my eyes that bad or was that Soriano misplaying that ball in the 9th inning instead of Holliday?
about 1 month ago
PhillyCub
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That's one of the worst pieces of "journalism" I have ever seen.
It will be the focus of today’s preview thread, which will post at 11 am CDT.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 9, 2009 8:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's just Bernie being Bernie
We’ve seen worse journalism. I don’t know that it’s worth giving attention to, actually.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 9, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This Garbage Article
First of all, the Cardinals have only lost 2 games in this series. Secondly, Holliday did hit a home run to give the Cardinals the early lead. I believe that the “anti-Cub” feeling among Cardinals fans has grown since 2007. It’s not as if it wasn’t there before 2007, but it’s increased since the Cubs won back-to-back division titles to become a threat to the Cardinals’ throne. There’s a good chance Holliday won’t be back with St. Louis in 2010.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Oct 9, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cardinals getting swept would be HUGE fail
Almost bigger fail than Cubs getting swept last year. Here me out on this:
-Game two they were 1 out of away!
-And most importantly, they traded big pieces of their farm for a few extra bats in the lineup. If you can’t get past the first round of playoffs not only do you wait until 2010 but you also hurt the development of the future of your team in years to come.
by ak123 on Oct 9, 2009 8:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We'll see
how Cardinal fans react when Holliday digs in for his first AB at Busch tomorrow. They say they’re the best fans in baseball, but I imagine there will be more than a few boos for the guy.
Holliday can’t hit a fastball, by the way. He’s looked horribly overmatched, except when he mashed Kershaw’s curve ball in the 1st inning.
I love that Torre isn’t pitching to Albert at all. Why more teams don’t do this, even during the regular season, is beyond me.
I took a sick pleasure in that 9th inning last night. Since the start of September, Franklin has been exposed for the fraud he is…those numbers this year were a mirage.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Oct 9, 2009 9:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And didn't they sign Franklin to a longterm extension?
They may be real sorry they did that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 9, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They did
The Cards gave a 36-year-old pitcher in the middle of a career year a two-year contract extension. Is Hendry running the Cardinals too?
by Jody Jody Davis on Oct 9, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Torre - Great Manager
I believe it’s time we recognize Joe Torre as the great manager he is. He’s managed division winners with 3 different teams now. His managerial success hasn’t all been about the huge payroll the Yankees had during his tenure there. He was the only manager that had success with the Braves in the 1970’s or 1980’s. He managed the Dodgers to their first NLCS appearance in 20 years in 2008. The Dodgers have a great chance of making a return trip in 2009, but they have got to get another win against a tough Cardinals team.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Oct 9, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. I don't think Joe gets NEARLY the recognition he's due for the jobs he's done managing in 3 very different franchises.
I can’t believe the Yankees could not appreciate what they had. Arrogance, I guess.
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 9, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1977-1981 Mets
There was no manager ever that could have gotten those dreadful Mets team back then to win. After the Mets traded away Seaver to the Reds, the franchise fell apart. You can’t blame Torre for the poor performance of those teams.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Oct 9, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They won't boo Holliday at his first at-bat
But I bet if their losing by more than 3 runs and he’s at bat in the 8th or 9th, they’ll let him hear it.
by ak123 on Oct 9, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Franklin
did his job. He got three outs in the 9th. The fact that the 3rd out got lost in the lights is not his fault.
by azjazzman on Oct 9, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A good closer has to be able to recover from stuff like that - especially in the postseason.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 9, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even the best closers
blow one once in awhile (see Rivera 2001 World Series Game 7). In both cases, the opposing team got an extra out. That makes it extremely tough. You can’t really say that Franklin didn’t do his job, he got the first three batters out, they just weren’t all recorded.
by azjazzman on Oct 9, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's the DeRosa factor...
He hasn’t been on a team that won a playoff series since the 2001 Braves won the NLDS.
Kasey
See the Cubs 2010 schedule at http://cubsbythenumbers.com/sched2010.html
Also see what old Cubs Scorecards looked like at http://cubsbythenumbers.com/scorecards.html
by kaseyi on Oct 9, 2009 9:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Oct 9, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not only that...
Mark DeRosa is on a personal nine game postseason losing streak – Game 5, 2004 NLDS, 2007 and 2008 Cubs, and the first two of this series.
by Jody Jody Davis on Oct 9, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look here...
… at DeRosa’s baseball-reference page.
They already list the Cardinals as having lost the series.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 9, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Big L!
I doubt DeRo would agree, but that’s pretty funny.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 9, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the irony is...
…his postseason numbers look fantastic (in an obviously small sample).
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 9, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a cheap way
to explain that your team is tanking it. Hell they finished the regular season losing 14 of there last 21, so playing good ball has not been in the “Cards” for awhile.
I loved LaRussa’s reaction to Ramus getting thrown out at third with no outs, freaking priceless.
I can’t stand the Dodgers either, but I do hope they sweep the Cards.
Is it me, but Holiday looks huge. Looks like he has been stepping up to the juice bar. I just don’t remember him that big a couple of years ago.
by Grockcubs on Oct 9, 2009 9:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And Wainwright whined about "fans waving white towels"...
… interfering with Holliday’s view of the line drive. Except there were no fans waving towels till after he dropped it. Video replays confirm this.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 9, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you can clearly see
Holliday gesture right after the play that something caused him to lose the ball. It’s not like it ticked off his glove, it never touched leather. That doesn’t happen unless he loses sight of the flight of the ball.
by azjazzman on Oct 9, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it wasn't the towels.
It seemed to me that Holliday changed his mind about how he was going to catch the ball — glove up or glove down — at the last possible moment.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 9, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't conclude that
you can’t see if people were waving towels in the upper deck. Something caused him to lose sight of the ball, whether it was the lights or waving towels, or whatever. He was indecisive with his glove because he lost the ball, that is clear.
by azjazzman on Oct 9, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The video showed no one waving towels in the lower deck.
I think it’s a fairly safe assumption that no one was doing so in the upper deck, either.
I’m not sure we’ll ever know the reason he was indecisive. One thing IS clear — it wasn’t because of towels.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 9, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is not a reasonable assumption at all
You can only see a few rows in the lower deck. And even then you can see a few people here and there waving towels. There is no reason to assume that there weren’t people in the upper deck waving towels. It is the bottom of the 9th in a one run game in the playoffs. A more reasonable assumption would be that there were people in the upper deck waving towels.
And it is clear from his reaction and the fact that he didn’t even get his glove on the ball that he lost sight of the ball.
And if Holliday told Wainwright that he lost the ball because of waving towels, there is no reason to doubt him, and there is no evidence in the TV replays to refute it.
You are letting your anti-Cardinals bias warp your judgement, the same thing you complain about in the O.P.
by azjazzman on Oct 9, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure why...
… you would assume that:
- no towels are being waved in the lower deck, and that assumes people in the upper deck WERE waving towels, and
- Holliday TOLD Wainwright that was the reason.
You have no evidence for your claims.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 9, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I'm pretty sure
that Wainwright wouldn’t just make that up. Now I have read that article from the Post Dispatch and Holliday is quoted there as saying that he lost the ball in the lights. This happens frequently at Dodger stadium because of the configuration of the upper deck. I’m not sure what difference it makes whether he lost the ball in the lights or from waving towels, but the point is that he lost the ball, and it was not just a misplay as you seem to contend.
by azjazzman on Oct 9, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Waving Towels
you can only see about 2% of the stadium in the TV replays, and those are by far the most expensive seats in Dodger Stadium, mostly inhabited by Hollywood and Corporate types.
WHY would you assume that whatever is going on in those seats is representative of what is happening in the other 98% of the stadium, especially the upper deck, which is where the average Dodger fans would be sitting?
by azjazzman on Oct 9, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does it really matter either way?
He didn’t catch it, they lost. Towels or no towels, he has to make that play.
by madcow256 on Oct 9, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hello?
Have you ever tried to catch a ball that you lost in the lights? Give me a break.
by azjazzman on Oct 9, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's tough
What are you looking for here? Should the Cards be given 1/3 of a win?
by madcow256 on Oct 9, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point
is that as much as Cubs fans want to categorize the critical play in last nights game as a choke job by Holliday, the truth is that it was unavoidable, as random as a lightning strike. That is as plain as can be.
The key, and most interesting thing, will be how the Cardinals react to this now that they are playing in their home ball park. A Championship team will react by saying “Hey, we were one out from getting a split on the road, now we are home, let’s show who we are”, as opposed to a shaky ballclub, which when something goes wrong in the game tomorrow says “Uh oh, here we go again”.
That is what is interesting and what separates say, the 2004 Boston Red Sox from the 2008 Chicago Cubs.
by azjazzman on Oct 9, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or the 2003 Chicago Cubs.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 9, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Y'know if I didn't know any better, I'd say you were nitpicking here.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 9, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cardinals Still Could've Won Game
Even after the error, the Cardinals had a 2-1 lead with a Dodger runner on second needing only one more out to win the game. Not only did St. Louis give up the lead, the Cardinals lost the game in the 9th.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Oct 9, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
the Dodgers won on a bloop hit. It happens.
The real story of the game is not what happened in the 9th inning, it is the Cardinals going 0 for 9 with runners in scoring position and the Dodgers going 2 for 3. That will get you beat just about every time.
by azjazzman on Oct 9, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What an obnoxious piece of garbage.
As if using the Cubs as an insult and mentioning curses isn’t pathetic enough…calling the Dodger’s “lucky” was pretty low.
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Oct 9, 2009 9:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How is calling the Dodgers
lucky low? The Dodgers won when a ball that should have been the third out gets lost in the lights and then a subsequent bloop hit. It’s not like the Dodgers won on a walk off HR or something.
by azjazzman on Oct 9, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I took the "charmed life" and "outrageously good fortune"
as saying that they won out of luck rather than by playing better. It sounds a little sore loserish. A bloop hit was all that was needed. It was hit to the right place. Just because it wasn’t a dramatic HR, doesn’t make it any less skillful.
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Oct 9, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A bloop hit is indicative of the fact
that you did not square the ball up. That is not skill, that is 90% luck. You cannot direct a ball off the bat to bloop over the infield and in front of the outfielders. The fact that you did not make solid contact generally results from being fooled by the pitch, which clearly was the case with Loretta. Calling the Dodgers 9th inning, with the ball getting lost in the lights and the bloop hit “outrageously good fortune” is not that over the top.
Of course, I still maintain that the 9th inning is not decisive unless the Cardinals go 0 for 9 with runners in scoring position in the game.
by azjazzman on Oct 9, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still say it sounds sore loserish
whether it be by luck or skill.
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Oct 9, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with Katie on this
Without having seen most of the game, I would assume that the Cardinals had their share of weakly hit baseballs into play. The Dodgers made the plays. That’s the way it goes.
And, for those who say strikeouts aren’t worse than other outs, well, while they are better than a 6-4-3 I guess if you make contact, things like bloop hits will happen.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 9, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a petty, shallow take on the situation.
Bernie probably thinks writing a piece like this will fire up the Cardinals, assuming they read it in the first place.
Oh my God, we’re playing like the Cubs! We don’t want to be like the Cubs!
What he’s conveniently ignoring is the Cards offense was notoriously feast or famine down the stretch – so their failures to drive in runners in scoring position really aren’t that uncharacteristic. As awful as Hollidays’ misplay yesterday was, the problem in that game was St. Louis scored only two runs.
I hope the Dodgers do get the sweep – so all Bernie will have succeeded in doing here is making his readership feel all the worse about the team they support. And, if I’m not mistaken, Tony LaRussa has taken great umbrage when St. Louis sportswriters (maybe Bernie himself) have taken this kind of anti-Cubs approach in the past.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 9, 2009 9:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
On the OTHER hand, it's also nice to read reinforcement that the Cardinals (or at least the writer) still measure their success against the Cubs.
Kinda nice to know you are in their heads to that extent. Bodes well for the coming season…
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Oct 9, 2009 9:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Really makes you wonder about Cards fans
They really don’t realize how good they have it. Instead, they whine and complain about the Cubs.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Oct 9, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brenly was on The Score yesterday...
And he said he was in both clubhouses before Game 1, and he mentioned that the Cards seemed very tight and on edge, while the Dodgers were very loose and joking around in the clubhouse.
Take that for what it’s worth, but seems to me a lot like the Cubs/Dodgers series last year where we seemed very tight.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Oct 9, 2009 9:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was never able to understand this whole clubhouse crap
I highly doubt if Brenly would have made the same comments had Cardinals won the game last night.
Nothing is more successful than success itself.
by cubsnlinux on Oct 9, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was after Game 1...
Not last night. He was just making an observation, but I think there is some validity to it. Last year and in 2007, there is no doubt that we just crapped our pants. We were so tight and it showed on the field with lack of plate discipline, and the disasterous errors we made in Game 2 at home last year.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Oct 9, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure the Cardinals are tight
they have stranded 21 runners in two games. They have been stranding runners left and right the last 3 weeks or so, and wasting good pitching performances. I’m sure that is having an effect on the whole team…pitchers feel like they have no room for error, and hitters pressing.
by azjazzman on Oct 9, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately for Bernie Miklasz
there’s no diet for stupid.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 9, 2009 10:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If anything, these Cards are playing like the 1985 Cards
One mistake (just like Game 6 of the ’85 WS), and everything unravels.
by Jody Jody Davis on Oct 9, 2009 11:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cards fans
I used to have a lot of respect for them, but I have lost it in the the last few years. I grew up in Cardinals country but was a Cubs fan, I have a lot of friends who are Cardinals fans and I see a difference in them also (not just random fans). The Cubs may not have won the World Series in over 100 years but the Cubs have handled the Cards pretty good over the last few years and the Cubs are spending money. They are scared the Cubs could start dominating this division for the next decade and they don’t know what to say or do about it. I certainly want to see the Cubs just dominate the central division for many many years.
by Cubsfan Waveland on Oct 9, 2009 12:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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