Cardinals Fans Vent After Ugly Loss on Viva El Birdos
Just in case anybody likes to bask in Cardinal sufferage. I have to admit, I kinda did enjoy reading this a bit. It is the post on Viva El Birdos after that ugly game 2 loss by the Cardinals. Their moderator had to lock the thread so no one could continue posting because it got that bad.
about 1 month ago
adam316
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I don't think
that this kind of garbage is representative of typical Cardinals fans any more than I think BCB Game threads when the Cubs lose a tough ball game is representative of typical Cubs fans.
It is representative of a certain type of fan that exists with all teams. A type that is best ignored and not acknowledged, IMO.
by azjazzman on Oct 9, 2009 2:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
get that, but...
…..I think it was hillarious, I LMAO…..misery loves company and I’m glad they felt some of mine for a change
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 9, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's unseemly
and bad karma if you ask me. The only fans who enjoy another team’s misery are people who just don’t get the whole sportsmanship thing. Plus what goes around comes around. I’ve been telling Jessica for years it is bad karma and bad form to gloat when someone on another team gets injured, but she doesn’t get it. If she had ever played sports, and experienced what is is like to get injured, perhaps she would understand.
by azjazzman on Oct 9, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WOW
where did you get that this is about enjoying seeing players get hurt? Lighten up! Its baseball….you hope someone wins and therefore hope someone looses. That’s all. Why are you taking this so seriously? btw I think its bad Kharma to always assume the worst in people.
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 9, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's all the same thing
and I have seen plenty of both here over the years.
Al just posted a clip of Dennis Eckersley talking about how he can relate to what Holliday is going thru. Or Billy Buckner. Or Ralph Branca. The point is that in sports, there is always a winner and a loser. Sportsmanship, and I know other’s disagree, but I do believe that sportsmanship is something that should be practiced by fans as well as players, dictates that you don’t gloat over someone’s misfortunes, where it be play on the field or an injury.
All bets are off, however, if it is the NBA or NFL…where such behavior is not only tolerated, but encouraged. That is one of the reasons I prefer baseball, hockey, golf…sports where sportsmanship is still valued.
by azjazzman on Oct 9, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sportsmanship in Hockey??
Isn’t that the same sport where they literally knock out each other’s teeth?
I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
by cubsluver22 on Oct 9, 2009 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, that was classy.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Oct 9, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's an odd reaction.
You may want to read his comment again.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 9, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
I’m sorry azjazzman, I misread your post.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 9, 2009 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had plenty of laughs due to that thread
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Oct 9, 2009 3:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That thread reminded me of something.
Did anyone else notice Matt Holliday emptying a bag of sunflower seeds into his mouth IN THE OUTFIELD DURING THE GAME? What is that about?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 9, 2009 3:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I saw that too. Never seen anyone do that on the field.
Was it after the drop? I think I remember thinking he should lay off the seeds and concentrate on the glove.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Oct 9, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
It was AFTER the drop.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Oct 9, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've never seen a guy emptying a bag into his mouth during play like that.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 9, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was that what that was?
I thought maybe it was a drink pouch of some sort.
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Oct 9, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Oct 9, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs should trade them Gregg
since they don’t like Franklin. GET IT DONE JIM!!!!!
by Cubbiegoon on Oct 9, 2009 5:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Gregg is a free agent.
He can leave on his own.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 9, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am sure he will be offered plenty of assistance.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Oct 10, 2009 1:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gregg is actually probably better than Franklin
by vivaelpujols on Oct 9, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sad but true
Well maybe not sad. Franklin is a middle of the road relief pitcher who had a brilliant first half and started to fall back on statistical average at an unfortunate time. If I was LaRussa I would look for another person to close games though I suppose its too late.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Oct 9, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL, what?
In what way is Kevin Gregg better than Ryan Franklin?
by kanderber on Oct 10, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The two are actually incredibly similar if you look at their career numbers
Gregg vs. Franklin
ERA – 4.10 vs. 4.07
WHIP – 1.321 vs. 1.322
ERA+ – tie at 107+
Gregg both strikes out and walks more, but actually gives up less homers (.9 HR/9 vs. 1.3 HR/9), believe it or not.
That said, this season Franklin had a much better year than Gregg, despite his regression in the second half.
by madcow256 on Oct 10, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking to the future...
… I would expect Franklin to decline, simply given the fact that his 2009 season is such an outlier to the rest of his career, and that he will be 37 before Opening Day.
Gregg — who knows? All I know is that I want him pitching elsewhere in 2010, preferably in the NL where Cub hitters can face him and hit HR off him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 10, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but....
Why are you looking at their career stats? When the statement “so and so IS better” is made, what the two pitchers did several years ago is irrelevant.
Ryan Franklin is a much better pitcher than Kevin Gregg (or at least he was this year), and it’s not even close.
by kanderber on Oct 10, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Back up your statement with some facts.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Oct 10, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course
Franklin has a 4.23 xFIP this year, a 4.88 xFIP last year and a 4.22 xFIP the year before. All three of those in relief. If you weight those seasons 5,4,3, you get a rough projection of a 4.44 ERA.
Gregg has a 4.20 xFIP this year, a 4.64 xFIP last year and a 4.81 xFIP the year before. Doing the same thing as with Franklin, you get a rough projection for a 4.49 ERA.
However, Gregg is going to be 32 next year, while Franklin is going to be 37. The difference in age more than closes the .05 gap in ERA, and makes Gregg likely the better pitcher going forward.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 10, 2009 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh right, sorry
It’s a stat that that attempts to strip out some of the luck in ERA. It is a modification of FIP, which was summarized nicely here and here. FIP only uses strikeouts, homeruns and walks to evaluate pitchers, as those are the 3 things that are strongly under a pitchers control. ERA is muddled by bad luck on balls in play and bad timing.
xFIP takes FIP one step further by substituting FB rate with HR rate. HR/FB ratio is considered to be largely out of a pitchers control as well, and is mainly based off of that pitchers home ballpark and just plain old luck.
It was shown here to be more predictive than any other pitching stat, and WAY more predictive than ERA.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/how-well-can-we-predict-era/
by vivaelpujols on Oct 11, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So it completely removes...
every hit, other than a home run?
I don’t see the point in evaluating a pitcher without looking at the complete body of work.
by kanderber on Oct 11, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well the complete body of work is so muddled by luck and defense
That it becomes very risky to evaluate pitchers based off of that alone. tRA, which is a similar formula, includes all batted ball types (GB, FB, LD) so it gives a little more credit to the pitcher for inducing hard or easy balls in play. But it still assigns a league average out rate to each batted ball.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 11, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't think that thread was that bad
considering the circumstances.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
by Goodie1969 on Oct 10, 2009 10:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
did anyone else notice that VEP
wanted a lesser player by stats than Holliday when reading thru the thread? Doesnt that go against everything he says here about taking a +2 no matter what….
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Oct 10, 2009 2:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
forgot so soon
I want Wallace
by vivaelpujols on Oct 8, 2009 8:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Who is higher on all your charts?
Interesting, since Brent Wallace is a minor leaguer.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Oct 10, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
should be interesting***
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Oct 10, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A couple of things
1) That was a joke, because, you know, we traded Wallace for Holliday. After Holliday made the costly error, I thought it would be rather funny to want a “refund”. If you’ll read that thread, a couple of other people made similar comments.
2) I would actually want Wallace over Holliday because a) he’d be on the Cardinals for 6 years instead of 3 months for Holliday, and b) he’d be a lot cheaper during those six years.
If you’ll read these threads:
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/7/24/961007/the-matt-holliday-limbo-trade
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/7/24/961406/the-cardinals-acquire-matt
You’ll see that I’m remarkably consistent in my view of the trade. I have always been opposed to it due to service time and salary reasons. So yes, Holliday is a better player than Wallace, but that doesn’t mean he’s more valuable to the Cardinals when other factors are considered.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 10, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which does go against you preaching here about taking MB since he is a +2
I was actually happy to see you put the stats on the back burner and go with heart VEP.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Oct 10, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This has nothing to do with heart Cubbie
Obviously Holliday is a better player than Wallace, but he won’t be more valuable when you consider service time and salary. This had nothing to do with the heart, it was a cold hard calculation of value based off of empirical data. For example, from the thread I linked,
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/7/24/961007/the-matt-holliday-limbo-trade#18615233
by vivaelpujols on Oct 10, 2009 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, now that was a thread that went south FAST
phew .. I felt soiled after reading it
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Oct 10, 2009 8:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the cardinals
are going home as we speak. i had to hear it from a couple of card fans.yes i know that many. but now im sure they will as quiet as they were the last 2 years when we won it. bye bye cardinals.
by NOMAR on Oct 11, 2009 6:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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