It's GOT TO BE much, much more than moving Bradley
by BLou on Nov 12, 2009 10:12 PM CST
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PrintI have to say that I am getting thoroughly depressed already over the prospects for 2010. My goodness, Jim Hendry was granted a stay of execution by the Ricketts family and then he is dumb and arrogant to say this week the Cubs only need a handful of minor tweaks?!?! And am I actually reading right that Cub fans are debating the wondrous virtues of signing Marlon Byrd versus Mike Cameron?!?! So we have Cub fans who actually wholeheartily endorse Hendry having yet another bad and expensive foray into free agency for a 30 something outfielder who we will deeply regret signing two weeks into the season?!?!
I've got news for Jim Hendry...the 2009 Chicago Cubs were a flawed and downright bad baseball team in many respects. Ah Jim, in case you haven't notice you have a current rotation of the enigmatic child Zambrano, the horrendously overpaid Dempster and Wells, a guy who came out of nowhere in 2009 and who could just as well revert back into nothingness ala Rich Hill.
Jim, you need to find a quality starting pitcher. And you need to find a couple of decent arms for a bullpen that you vastly overrate. A middle infielder who isn't graduate of the Smurf Aging Journeyman Former Non-Prospect Society" would be great too. And do you HONESTLY have faith in Geovany Soto being your number one catcher in 2010? Center field is a black hole too.
The Ricketts family delayed dumping your regime for one more season. At least do them a favor and at least try this offseason. I know you can do it, even without Sam Zell and Kenny Crane handing over a stack of blank checks.
P.S. Before Josh Vitters joins the long list of prospect flops during your tenure, how about you get him some intensive offseason development help with his hitting approach and fielding.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Ok, so you want a major overhaul of the Cubs
Let me get this straight, you want:
A new starting catcher
A new starting 2B/SS
Another quality starting pitcher
A new center fielder
A few quality arms in the bullpen
Am I right?
How, exactly, do you propose to do all of these things when we don’t have much money to spend and not a ton of prospects in our system? Please, I am curious, or is this just merely another one of your rants?
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
by DTJchris on Nov 12, 2009 10:29 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I'll play
Koyie Hill – C
Anyone know the Cubs record when Hill started? I’d wager it was better than when Soto started. Fact the Cubs (final?true?) demise seemed to coincide when Soto returned for the 4 game series in Colorado. Back-up C, sign Pudge Rodriguez, a Jaramillo favorite. $750,000, 1 yr?
Blanco – SS
People love the D. Low budget holding of the spot for Castro. Deduct Theriot’s salary here.
Millwood – SP
Bradley for Millwood. I’m guessing the $ is even this year, maybe not financially feasible if the Rangers insist on the Cubs eating 12 mil on Bradley and us paying all of Millwood’s contract. +6 million this year?
Granderson – CF
Soto, Theriot and whatever it takes for Granderson. Just don’t bat Grandy lead-off. Plus 6 million to buget?
Kiko Calero – RP
Always have liked his stats. 1.5 mil? Look to the farm for another spot.
Not real sure but I’d guess this adds 10 million to buget once we lose Harden, Johnson, Gregg and possibly Fontenot.
Can’t say that team is better, but the defense will be improved. The real question Cub should ask is should they deal Aramis Ramirez and his bum shoulder while we can get something for him. This is the only move I can see that will free up money.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Nov 13, 2009 12:19 AM CST up reply actions
i wouldn't mind calero
that seems like a relatively cheap pen arm that could perhaps fill in the setup role.
Deal Ramirez?
Really? Good Lord.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Nov 13, 2009 4:58 AM CST up reply actions
Theriot will still be super cost effective.
He made $500K this year and won’t get crazy money via arbitration this year. Saving $1M isn’t going to right the ship.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Hmmm,
1. Koyie Hill is a backup, nothing more. Soto was an all star his rookie year and flopped last year, so the Cubs need to make sure he shows up in shape and ready to play in 2010 and find out if he is the real deal or not. Too soon to cut him loose.
2. Blanco is another backup, nothing more. Good glove no hit. Is he an upgrade over Theriot? Defensively sure, offensively, no. If your seven other position players are good hitters you can carry Blanco’s lightweight bat, but I am not sure the Cubs have that luxury. Keep him as the backup SS/2B.
3. Millwood for Bradley? Sure if you can get Texas to bite. I am all in favor of moving the cancer known as MBradley. Maybe Jaralillo can reach Bradley, but I don’t believe MB wants to change, in fact I don’t think he thinks he has a problem. He thinks everyone around him has the problem. As for Millwood, the Cubs need a quality SP and he is a quality SP and a proven innings eater, unlike Harden.
4. I think Granderson would be a good get but he is not worth “whatever it takes”. Get real.
5. Calero? Sure, good bullpen arm to set up for Marmol.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 13, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
And fries with that order
I’d super-size the beverage too
by RiskyBusiness on Nov 13, 2009 12:35 AM CST up reply actions
Thoughts on Soto
Give him a rightful shot in 2010 and if he fails then you pay Mauer whatever it takes to come to Chicago. That’s one contract that won’t fail.
Hard to see us winning that bid come 2010
Yankees and Red Sox could both be searching for new catchers. Same with a whole host of other teams, and Mauer might choose to stay home.
I think this is Soto’s year, but if he struggles, then we’ll be looking at a FA or Welington Castillo for 2011.
I can't see Mauer leaving the Twins
Too much rides on it for the Twins. Pissed off fan base, pissed off players…..
and in a new statium
I agree. The Twins will do what they have to to get Mauer locked up.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
Neither will be a C solution by then.
V-Mart already needs additional time off and isn’t there dicussion on Mauer’s back and knees that he’ll need to switch to another position down the road?
Both are great players, but probably not catcher solutions for the Cubs when they become available.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Do you really think Mauer will reach free agency?
That would basically kill attendance in the first or second year of the new stadium, not a wise business decision. Also on his part, he’s a Minnesota native and is extremely happy with the Twins.
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
Prediction
The Twins will sign Mauer to an extension before Opening Day 2010.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Thank you, Al.
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
Dempster wasn't overpaid
for 2009. He had an 8 mil base last year. He wasn’t as good as he was in 2008, but he was still a solid number 2 pitcher. For 8 mil last year, that was excellent value.
Now, he might be overpaid in the near future, but for now, he wasn’t overpaid. And if he maintains his performance from this year, he won’t be overpaid at any point in his contract.
It’s easy to bash Dempster, but he isn’t overpaid, was a solid arm for us last year, and is, by most accounts, one of the few clubhouse leader-types with his personality. Dempster’s the least of any problems with the team, and with the team’s finances. Maybe in 2012, when he’s making 14 mil (player option that I assume will be picked up), then he might be overpaid. But for now, he isn’t, and I expect he’ll be fine in 2010.
by toonsterwu on Nov 12, 2009 10:36 PM CST reply actions 9 recs
Further, his family situation probably made focus
and team leadership fade last year. Hopefully, for her sake, his daughter is doing better and for Demp no longer has the same concerns. With more sleep and peace of mind, he may even improve some on the field.
For the record, I’d rather he went 0-20 and his daughter is okay.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
+1
Give the guy credit for making no excuses and still taking to the bump every fifth day
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Good post
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 13, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
I like to join crowds.
Green.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
It's all doom and gloom with you
isn’t it? You praise the white sox for getting Mark freakin Teahen but bitch and moan when there are RUMORS of the cubs signing Cameron or Byrd…..both who are better players than Teahen.
Just like the BLou we have all come to know and love
he posts a flaming rant about the Cubs and then never response back to anyone’s questions.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
if you want to talk about people being overpaid
look at left field. look at our supposed “ace”. aaron miles, while having a relatively small contract, is overpaid. bradley, overpaid.
dempster? dempster earned his contract and got paid for it. welcome to sports, it’s how it works. and he didn’t do badly this year. the offense is the reason our pitchers didn’t win 30+ 1 or 2 run games.
It's not about money. It's about winning and getting over the hump. We've had the appetizer now, but we left the main course on the table.
-rod beck
Calling him dumb and arrogant just makes you sound foolish
I’ll defend you, BLou, when you have a point. But what is Hendry supposed to say? That he needs to dramatically overhaul this team? That is
a) a bad message to the clubhouse, a clubhouse that will largely return
b) almost impossible with the financial situation.
If you want to blame him for past finances, fine, that’s fair. But to blame him for saying that the team only needs tweaking is a bit ridiculous. What other option was he supposed to say? See, that’s the problem with you, the reactionary comment. Is he supposed to bash the entire organization and say it’s a mess? Is he supposed to say “X player sucked”? Cubs would have difficulties in landing a good FA if he said that.
There are no ideal solutions this offseason. To expect Hendry to somehow magically conjure up solutions that might not exist is a bit flawed. If the Cubs can add a good hitter to the top of the lineup, then a lot of things will likely be better. Do I think there’s enough moves out there to make us a legit WS contender next year? Gun to my head, probably not. That said, the biggest improvements were always going to come internally.
The idea that this team needs a quality pitcher is also a bit flawed. There were few trios that were better for the season than Dempster/Zambrano/Lilly. If you want to make an argument that the pitching staff needs a leader, fine. The idea that a team needs strong as rock 1-4 starters to win during the season is a bit flawed, though. I would be extremely frustrated if he spent heavily on the pen, as you seem to suggest. Spending on pen arms is the worst idea possible. A choice acquisition or two, fine.
Who do you have as the starting catcher if not Soto? Who’s a better option that can be had? Now, I’ve argued that trading Soto isn’t the worst idea, but that’s only if you are using Soto to try and get a better talent. Otherwise, you have to gamble with him for another year and hope he turns it around.
Don’t get me wrong, this is a very flawed team, a team expecting some guys to turn it around to be able to have a shot. It’s a team that needs another bat at the top of the order, it needs improved CF defense, it needs a more balanced lower half of the lineup, and it likely needs a late inning pen arm. You can’t go externally to find all your answers. You are going to have to hope that some folks turn it around. This isn’t the NFL where you can easily turn over half of your roster each year.
by toonsterwu on Nov 12, 2009 10:50 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
I would add
That every indication so far is the the Cubs FO is discussing a lot of things. Is Bradley at the top of the list? Probably, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t discusisng other options.
At the end of the day, it takes two to tango, whether it be another team or a free agent.
Bradley is mostly about lancing a boil
They have to get that done to know what their issues and constraints are for 2010.
I think the List of Realistic Attainment after that is:
- Find a center fielder who offers more offensive productivity than the in-house options. Based on rumors so far, that role will not be filled in the Bradley deal. I’d rather see the Cubs get a pack of chewing gum for Bradley (Wrigley, of course) than the CF contracts that are being bandied about.
- Add a middle infielder so Fontenot and Theriot can go back to being spot/role players (assuming Fontenot’s arb status doesn’t earn him his walking papers). I have no names to offer here and maybe Baker could work if he keeps hitting like late in the season. At the right price (fairly cheap) a reprise of DeRosa could also be useful.
- Find a 4-5 starter to eat some innings and make up for Harden leaving. I do think that letting Harden go is the right move – there really have to be more cost-efficient ways to get 140 innings pitched, especially if Harden feels that amount of work “overused” him.
- Add some bullpen depth, but don’t go nuts trying to sign a marquis closer. Wagner still hasn’t passed the health test and will cost $ + draft picks, and so far there aren’t any other options out there that are that good.
The rest will have to come from guys playing better (Soto, Soriano, Zambrano) or staying healthier (Soriano, Dempster, Ramirez). If that’s not enough, 2010 will not be the year (yet again). After that, the Cubs may be looking at rebuilding with the expiring contracts and players who are hitting ages where decline sets in.
by ClarkFan on Nov 13, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Some thoughts...
- Marlon Byrd for cheap would be a good pickup to play center. Maybe 2 years at 5 million per? I think the way to go is improve the outfield defense and hope Soriano learns to hit again rather than wasting money trying to bring in another big outfield bat.
- Luis Castillo would be really nice to have at 2nd. Good defense, high on-base percentage, lefty bat. Then Baker is the supersub for 2nd/3rd/lf/rf or he could even platoon with Castillo. Fontenot is non-tendered and Blanco is the ss backup.
Agreed and Rec'd.
I would urge – nay, beg – every Cubs fan complaining about our rotation to take a long, hard look at the starting staffs that the Brewers, Astros and Pirates (even the Reds, after the injuries took hold) threw out there last season. The Cubs starting pitching is still solid, if not spectacular. That’s not to say improvements shouldn’t be considered, but let’s be reasonable here.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Cubs' rotation
is solid, better than most. That said, I hope they find a quality replacement for Harden. Keeping Harden is not the smart move, immensely talented but too fragile. Assuming they find a quality replacement for Harden the Cubs’ rotation is good enough to make a run at a pennant.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 13, 2009 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
Rich Harden is a good pitcher and has the ability to
be great on any given start. His inconsistancy from start to start, .500 form in 2009, and need to average more than 5 days between starts makes him a luxury. For a team at or near the ceiling of of the salary budget and the uncertainty on Lilly’s return, Harden can’t be paid.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
I'd stick with Harden, if the budget allows.
Problem is, I’m not sure there is an equal replacement in terms of quality out there (assuming Halladay and Lackey are out of the question). For all Harden’s travails last season, his K numbers remain sick. That’s a huge value, and the Cubs seem to have found an effective conditioning program to mitigate his injury woes.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Lackey
seems to be someone a lot of teams are concerned with.
That said, there should be some cheap pitchers coming off injuries in FA. Starting pitching shouldn’t be a huge priority, but if we have any extra money, it would be nice if we could grab someone.
Well, I'd say Ben Sheets...
…but wouldn’t he be considered a bigger injury risk than Harden at this point?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Harden's a bullpen killer
let him go
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 14, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
+1
No matter how good your ‘pen is, you can’t keep expecting them to throw 4+ innings every fifth day and expect to succeed
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
what are the odds
on convincing Lou to do that? He still sees Marshall as a LOOGY.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Nov 16, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
Nicely said.
I agree with Blou that this team needs fixes and isn’t getting performance equal to contract cost from many players.
However, with the contracts as written, and baseball contract dollars guaranteed, there are no quick fixes. Can’t just sanitize and start over.
Hendry needs to make some moves to improve the team. CF, the Bullpen, and insurance for Lilly are required. Not paying more than 50% of Bradley’s contract is important to free up the dollars to help 2010 and 2011.
I’d like Rickett’s and co. to work with Hendry on payroll budgets for the next three years to give Hendry the flexibility to spend more now while identifying savings next year and the year after. If a deal forces spending an extra $10M this year, but allows the Cubs to save $20M next, I’m all for it.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Sounding foolish?
When has that stopped BlueMikeNIULou or whatever he calls himself this year from taking a valid point and blowing it way out of proportion and then repeating it 6,482,629 times?
The 2010 "We're going to suck" campaign is officially up and running.
I was hoping he could at least wait until Hendry actually made a move/trade/signing, but just like Christmas decorations showing up after Halloween in stores, everything is getting earlier nowadays.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Nov 12, 2009 11:28 PM CST reply actions
We have done nothing so far to improve this team
we are almost two weeks into the off season and absolutely nothing has been accomplished. Obviously we are doomed for 2010.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Two weeks? Two whole weeks? And the Cubs still too weak?
Wow… Has it only been two weeks? How can Hendry sleep nights? Oh woe is me – oh woe is me…
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
by eths on Nov 13, 2009 1:43 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
LOL
(SARCASM) My goodness! It’s only three months before pitchers and catchers report for the start of spring training. The Cubs don’t have any time left to make moves. We truly are doomed for 2010!
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
I think BLou gets on the Brewers bandwagon this year
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
IT WON'T HAPPEN!!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Nov 16, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
STOP CUBS STOP!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Nov 16, 2009 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
What I read...
Darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness, darkness.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
Welcome to the inner life of Our Favorite Poster
or Poser, if you will.
Cubs Supreme in Baseball World.
I think there are some good points in here
Signing Byrd or Cameron is far from ideal, but they fill a need in the short term, and that is what we need to do now. I agree for the most part with the concern for Vitters, I’d trade him this offseason for the right guy.
I’m probably one of Dempster’s biggest critics, but he isn’t really that overpaid. Randy Wells? I’m more worried about him getting hurt than I am about him becoming Rich Hill.
Our bullpen might be on the edge of being awful if guys like Guzman regress and Marmol can’t control his pitches. Geo is a major concern despite having an unlucky season.
If Hendry really thinks 2010 is a Bradley trade away from being set then he is an idiot. There is a ton to be done.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
What was "idiotic" if anything was
was last off-season’s situation where Lou was out there going on and on about what the Cubs planned to acquire, commenting on Ibanez and Bradley and Abreu. We were never going to get the bargain that Abreu turned out to be in that situation. On the other hand, had we not telegraphed so much, had we talked about going with Pie and Dome and believing in them, well, then, Abreu could have been a Cub for 5 M.
We’ll see if they can keep the lid on Lou this year, but at least Hendry is playing it right.
Is he traded yet?
Lou has stayed away from specific requests this year
Other than wanting Soto and Soriano to be better, which was kind of obvious anyway. Something tells me (if he knows how) that Lou texts the name Mike Cameron to Hendry every morning.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
You're reading too much into this
He is NOT going to telegraph what he wants to do right out there in the open with the press. When has Hendry ever said anything about any player, especially when they’re still property of another team.
You wanna rant? Wait 2 months. Then if nothing’s been done it’d be time to question Hendry’s strategy.
Just win the next game...!
I'm all for an incentive-laden deal for Chieng-Ming Wang when he gets non-tendered.
If he rebounds then we have a new #1.
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
I'm all for it too
But I get the feeling that he may opt to try and stay in New York (Yankees on a lesser deal or Mets in FA). That would allow him to stay in his New Jersey home. I could also see him go to Boston (as their 5th starter option split with Wakefield, allowing Wang more rehab time) or the Dodgers (Torre connection).
If he’s free, and if the medical tests are fine, I imagine he’ll get a lot of offers.
While I am a fan of Wang, he’d be a 1 in name only. At his best, he was more a solid 2 type starter.
I'm fine with checking out Wang
but he won’t be a #1. With his stuff, he has to walk a fine line. I don’t see him getting back to those early seasons. For example, look at 2006. He won 19 games but his WHIP was over 1.3. He was never a dominant pitcher.
Eh, true.
But he’s good at getting out of jams, wins, and is an upgrade over Z, IMO.
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
P
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
Ugh...
He was good at getting out of jams… Before the whole explosion thing.
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
Here's what I saw
The eternal pessimist issues his rant, unwilling to simply wait for things to happen. Instead, he just declared 2010 to be over and move on. That’s all she wrote, folks. I, however, happen to disagree with a few points in his post.
I’ve got news for Jim Hendry…the 2009 Chicago Cubs were a flawed and downright bad baseball team in many respects.
The 2009 Cubs were flawed in many ways, but they weren’t a bad team. Bad teams don’t finish over .500 and place second in the division. Bad teams finish under .500 and somewhere near the cellar. The Washington Nationals were an example of a bad team. This team was not a bad team.
Ah Jim, in case you haven’t notice you have a current rotation of the enigmatic child Zambrano, the horrendously overpaid Dempster and Wells, a guy who came out of nowhere in 2009 and who could just as well revert back into nothingness ala Rich Hill.
Dempster may have been overpaid, but what did you suggest doing in the 2008-2009 offseason. There was no way in hell that Hendry was going to be able to afford Sabathia or Burnett with the dough that the Yankees were planning to throw at them and eventually did agree to pay them. Dempster also had off the field issues at the beginning of the season, which didn’t help things. I think Zambrano could rebound if he actually takes care of himself. Worrying about Wells disappearing next year just because Rich Hill did is being far too pessimistic. Contrary to what you may think, some rookie pitchers actually go on to have fine careers.
Jim, you need to find a quality starting pitcher. And you need to find a couple of decent arms for a bullpen that you vastly overrate. A middle infielder who isn’t graduate of the Smurf Aging Journeyman Former Non-Prospect Society" would be great too. And do you HONESTLY have faith in Geovany Soto being your number one catcher in 2010? Center field is a black hole too.
First off, WTF is the Smurf Aging Journeyman For Non-Prospect Society? What we’ll do about starting pitching depends on what will be done about Rich Harden. If we can’t reach an agreement with Rich Harden, and I don’t see why we can’t, then we’ll have to see what we can try to find to replace him. Our rotation wasn’t the problem this season. The bullpen was, but I think that’s trending in the right direction. I’m not entirely comfortable with Carlos Marmol as the closer, but he should do better than Kevin Gregg. Geovany Soto should be fine next season. Ever heard of down years? Didn’t think so.
Here’s an idea. Have some freakin faith. You don’t have to post doom and gloom messages every time you get the urge to whine. For all the complaints, you offered no suggestions to what you called the problems. You haven’t suggested who the Cubs should get. Instead, you just say, “This isn’t working. We’re all gonna dieeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!” Just remember:
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
i will say this...
i haven’t been around as much lately…. but my sentiments may be closer to BLou’s than ever before
I’m not really excited for 2010, I’ve lost a bit of passion in that respect. In general I’d prefer to see the team move towards rebuilding than trying to make another false attempt at competitiveness. The best offseason for me would be one in which we generally stood pat and maybe signed some plug-ins to 1 year deals
Ideally we’d shed some of the long-term commitments but that’s unlikely to happen. I just have a hard time convincing myself we’re a few parts away when most of our best players are likely to trend in the wrong direction given age.
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 13, 2009 8:17 AM CST reply actions
DCF
I’m sympathetic to your view, which I don’t believe is BLou’s view exactly. I’ve wondered if you just sign a one-year veteran or two to give the team a chance – the NL Central may not be strong again – but almost hope you are in a position mid-season to trade Derrek Lee, Ted Lilly, and more for prospects.
That said – our situations at 3B, 2B, LF, and C – on balance will get better simply by regression to these players’ career means. One or two of them may really be done – maybe Soto, maybe Soriano. But on balance the entire package should be stronger than 2009’s. The Bill James projections at fangraphs bear this out. Soriano and Soto are projected to be better. 2B almost has to be better.
Keep in mind, our players are “on the wrong-side of 30” but they aren’t on the wrong side of 35.
Is he traded yet?
we're talking about competing in what way?
for a division title? Ok, I can buy that, the division is weak we could win it and then maybe we get into the playoffs and get lucky, right?
I’m tired of that philosophy. I’m tired of the idea of spending your way to be good enough to win a crappy division and then getting lucky in the playoffs.
I want an organizational philosophy. I want to be able to pick our spots in FA and the trade market because we have depth within the organization. I want to flex our financial prowess in a tactical and responsible manner. I want a big picture.
I’m concerned if we do plug holes and the team has success next year, it will encourage the current cycle to continue. A long-term extension would then be made to veterans approaching or surpassing 35 in order to keep the dream alive of competing.
I guess I’m just disenchanted a bit. 2008 took a lot out of me, I’ve never had that much fun watching a Cubs team in a season and then all these changes were made for no good reason other than tinkering and trying to make marginal upgrades with expensive long-term consequences.
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 13, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
Understandable
The thing is – we have to see how the offseason unfolds, but we do have a chance to be the best team in the NL Central on paper. Because the post-season IS a crapshoot, no matter what you try, it’s hard to just throw away a season where you have high odds of making the post-season.
I want an organizational philosophy – but I also want flexibility and a willingness to snag bargains. If we had stuck to just developing our prospects, would we still be watching Corey, Bobby Hill, and Hee Seop Choi?
Is he traded yet?
Your last paragraph is an argument
for major upgrades in scouting and player development. The good news is those things are not Yankee-expensive and should be very doable for a team with the Cubs’s finances. May require a new GM, though.
Or
you can look at the fact that Jim Hendry learns from his mistake and has already begun the process of correcting this. Our farm system is stronger now. And our pro scouting department has always been strong under Hendry’s tenure. How else do we pick gems like Jim Edmonds, Kyler Burke, etc? That said, the amatuer department may still need some more strengthening.
Let’s also point out that Hee Seop Choi and Corey Patterson both had multiple productive seasons. There was a time when people thought we had lost the Choi-Lee trade. Corey’s and Choi’s eventual failures were for very different reasons, so simplistic answers like “It’s the Cubs’ farm system” don’t really have much value to me.
Is he traded yet?
I'm almost with you. However, when did anyone believe
the Cubs lost the Choi-Lee trade?
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
At the 2004 midway point
Choi was hitting .275/.393/.513 and Lee was hitting .304/.375/.516. Considering their relative costs and park effects, it looked like the Marlins had won that trade.
Is he traded yet?
If it wasn't for Kerry Wood, Lee may have been a good player.
Same with Salomon Torres and Sammy Sosa, only Sosa might still be our RF.
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
Sosa at age 41 still in RF?
Doubt it.
But he might have had a more graceful exit.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think you meant to say Choi, not Lee.
And if you didn’t, that’s a whole ’nother kettle of fish.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." ~Winston Churchill
tim wilken
is the primary reason a lot of the farm system issues have been corrected through draft and international signings
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 13, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
If indeed...
…some of he current crop turn out to be quality major league players, it would have to be because of Wilken. Hendry ran the farm from 94-02, and that was a complete disaster.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
that's not exactly fair either
No, we didn’t turn out bumper crops of players, but there was value. If you want to argue that they mishandled the value, that’s fair, but the system was well-regarded in the late 90’s and the turn of the century. It was around 2004 that our system started to go into a decline, imo.
Nice pivot
For a while you’ve been arguing that the farm system state proves Hendry deserves to lose his job. Now that the system is well regarded, Hendry has nothing to do with it.
Is he traded yet?
Hendry has been a good dumpster diver
and I don’t mean that as a negative comment. He has gotten real value out of other teams’ cast-offs. He has also done reasonably well with trades, but seems to get hypnotized by the notion of “free” in “free agent.”
Development of position players has been very mixed. I lost track of Choi, but Patterson was done as soon as pitchers figured out that he had a strike zone as big as all outdoors. Pitcher development is harder to judge because Dusty and Lou have not been good managers for young pitchers, for different reasons.
I guess my reflex is to compare the productivity of the Cubs’ system with the Twins, who get gored in the FA market and then come back to contend again. If the Twins can pull that off, a club with more resources ought to be able to do the same, if they pay attention consistently.
by ClarkFan on Nov 13, 2009 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
i don't disagree with your sentiment
the point is we don’t have flexibility. The only way to get the flexibility is to either rebuild or stand pat and let contracts expire. These are the two things i’d like to see happen
by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 13, 2009 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
I'm talking about a different kind of flexibility
the kind that is willing to find places for imperfect players who don’t fit a dogmatic philosophy. Hendry has that. He can find a place for Todd Walker and Michael Barrett. Lou’s the one who looks at Pie and Dome and is obsessed with what they aren’t.
Is he traded yet?
What you are saying...
…is exactly what Ricketts said in his press conference. Now, it will be interesting to see if he gets inticed into allowing the higher end farm hands to be shipped out for a guy like Granderson.
By the way, I agree with everything Rickett’s said in regards to what a successful organization needs to do. The interesting part will be how that impacts how the 2010 club is put together.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
The real question is whether our base team is fundamentally strong or weak.
We had a team that won 83 games in 2009 and 97 games in 2008. What was the difference that accounted for the 14 game regression?
1. Career years Mark DeRosa and Mike Fontenot turned into anti-career years Mike Fontenot and Aaron Miles, a net WAR loss of 7.9.
2. Alfonso Soriano injured – a net WAR loss of 3.8
3. Soto sophomore slump – a net WAR loss of 3.3
4. Aramis Ramirez injured – a net WAR loss of 2.2
5. Edmonds turned into Bradley, reputed effect not measureable in WAR
So, BLou is right at one level to point to the middle infield as a problem. I won’t be surprised, however, with the middle infield riches we have in the farm system, to see Jim Hendry wait on this and see what’s out there for a one year deal. To me, there’s not much difference between Polanco, Lopez, Hudson, etc. Waiting the market out makes sense – and to do so effectively, you have to express satisfaction in your in-house 2B options.
#s 2-4 aren’t places in really makes sense to try and change. Ramirez and Soriano should both be healthier. Soto is a long-running recipient of BLou’s ire, but who’s out there that makes sense to pay to acquire? What makes the most sense is to give him a year to see what he can do – if he flops again, we’ll have enough money coming off the books to be players for Mauer or V-Mart if we want. Perhaps Wellington Castillo will take a step forward.
For what it’s worth, if you can get Byrd or Cameron on a one or two year deal, they should be a WAR improvement on Bradley and Edmonds. But, again, getting one of them on a one or two year deal requires talking as if the team core is strong.
BLou and others have complained about “Spendry’s” “addiction to free agency” but now rail when he shows signs of restraint? Jim Hendry could tell us that he is shopping specifically for three players and say we need them, but all he’ll do is drive the price up.
Anyway, the real question is one that really needs its own fanpost – what is the base level of wins you can expect from this team if the only change made is swapping Milton Bradley for Mike Cameron?
Is he traded yet?
I'm confused ...
The only reason the Cubs were 14 games worse last season was the offense? What about Kevin Gregg? What about Marmol 2009 versus Marmol 2008? And was the starting rotation as good in 2009 as it was in 2008? Without looking at the numbers, I have a hard time thinking it was.
That said, I agree with a lot of these points — especially the idea of finding a bargain middle infielder later in the offseason.
In 2008
we scored 855 runs and allowed 671 runs. In 2009 we scored 697 runs and allowed 655 runs. Different pitchers performed better and worse, but on the whole we were an even better run prevention team in 2009. The problem is that we went from an offense that had no easy outs to an offense that had 2-4 easy outs besides the pitcher. That lineup depth compounded problems in each season – in 2008, it compounded problems for opposing pitchers. In 2009, it compounded problems for our own guys who were productive.
Is he traded yet?
Poor BLou -- He forgets this is a FAN community...
…and, as such, cold-hearted logic, reason and analytical thought only splash cold rain on the parade.
To be a fan, one must drink the Kool-Aid. BLou won’t have any.
The Cubs, once again, stand at the precipice. They could very well win the NL Central in 2010. But guess what — they could just as likely lose 90 games. It all depends on what Hungry Jim Hendry does this off-season — which was what BLou is saying!
Blou has the rep of pulling people’s chains here. But to say centerfield is a black hole? Implying that having Carlos Zambrano as your ace is like putting Lindsay Lohan in charge of the National Endowment for the Arts? That Randy Wells risks slipping back into obscurity? That Geo Soto may never overcome his eternal case of the munchies? That’s pulling everybody’s chain?
Sheesh! What would everybody here say if BLou claimed the sky was blue?
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Nov 13, 2009 8:55 AM CST reply actions
I'd look out the window
You asked.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
I would get my umbrella out.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Nov 13, 2009 9:18 AM CST up reply actions
Well, that's essentially what he's doing, isn't it?
Stating the obvious but offering no solutions? Look, like any great villain, BLou states the truth to a certain extent. Both Byrd and Cameron have flaws to consider – but they’re realistic options for centerfield. Thus, we discuss them.
The Cubs starting rotation, like just about any starting rotation in baseball, has question marks. But, again, realistically, who can the Cubs add that would really make a difference? Halladay? Let’s hear his trade package then. Otherwise, I’d maintain that the Cubs rotation still looks pretty damn competitive in the NL Central.
The middle infield is also uncertain. To be honest, I’m more concerned about Ryan Theriot’s offensive performance than his defensive one. And second base is a ball of confusion as usual. But, again, let’s hear the slamdunk candidate(s) for resolving this problem. crickets
Last, yeah, sure, Geo disappointed us all this season. But he certainly wouldn’t be the first RoY to fall prey to a sophomore slump. Again, what is a realistic option for his replacement? I don’t really see one. So you give Soto another season and, if it doesn’t work out, hope Castillo can bail us out sooner rather than later.
The biggest problem I see with this Fanpost is the implication that Jim Hendry doesn’t try – or work hard. If there’s one thing Hendry does – perhaps to a fault – is try to do his best. I’m certainly not suggesting he hasn’t made mistakes, but I, for one, have never questioned his work ethic. Ultimately, I just view this kind of screaming into the darkness at a club’s GM as rather pointless. (And, yet, here I just wasted five paragraphs on it.)
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by daver on Nov 13, 2009 9:24 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The slam-dunk team
Dome RF
St Drew SS
Lee 1B
Rami 3B
Grandy CF
Sori LF
Soto C
Free agent 2B left standing
Harden retained.
This is possible, but it will drain the farm system. I feel like this is the kind of team you could pencil in as one of the best in the NL with a real shot at playoff success.
Is he traded yet?
Hm, well, I'm still having trouble seeing Stephen Drew as a slam dunk over Theriot.
His career UZR numbers at SS are far worse. Their wOBAs over the last three years are about a wash. And Theriot’s raw OBP over the last couple years has actually been better. Drew is younger, though – and left-handed, of course. What exactly would happen to Ryan Theriot in this scenario, by the way? Traded to Detroit for Grandy?
All in all, I do like that lineup a lot. Maybe the Cubs could sign O-Dawg for second base – purely for his clubhouse presence. That guy has a really entertaining personality.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
If you traded for St. Drew, you'd have your pick of FA 2B who had played with him.
This is pure fantasy – but Theriot would be a great platoon SS…
Is he traded yet?
That was cool...somebody used "Theriot", "Great", and "SS"
in the same sentence.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
Theriot is a great shortstop, in terms of cost effectiveness.
IT CAN BE DONE!!!
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
a semi-realistic preferred solution for me would be
a moment of fantasy gm’ing, but
1. Luis Castillo, 2nd.
2. Kosuke Fukudome, RF.
3. Derrek Lee, 1st.
4. Aramis Ramirez, 3rd.
5. Curtis Granderson, CF.
6. Alfonso Soriano, LF.
7. Geovany Soto, C.
8. Ryan Theriot, SS.
Bench (5): Koyie Hill, Jeff Baker, Reed Johnson, Andres Blanco, Eric Hinske
SP: Carlos Zambrano, Ryan Dempster, Ted Lilly, Randy Wells, Tom Gorzelanny
CL: Carlos Marmol
SU: Angel Guzman/Kiko Calero
MR: John Grabow/Sean Marshall/Esmailin Caridad and one (Samardzija?Blake Parker? Justin Berg? )
I think that’s a semi-realistic scenario financially. It isn’t an ideal scenario or my fantasy scenario, just a scenario I’d be okay with. The farm system wouldn’t be torn asunder (if the Granderson trade gets to ridiculous demands, then I’d pull out and I’d hope that the Mets miss on their preferred OF targets and decide to go after Chone Figgins, potentially allowing for a MB/Castillo swap). The top of the order is better with Castillo/Fukudome Castillo isn’t signed past 2011, so I could live with the contract there. On occasion, when Castillo sits, I could live with Theriot at the top of the order. Baker becomes a supersub that starts some at 2nd, some at 3rd, perhaps some at 1st and corner OF. You’d bring back Reed Johnson to pair with the two lefties. I want a lefty bat off the bench, and Hinske could be a nice cheap addition that offers some pop and the ability to play a couple spots (albeit not all that well).
If we could land a cheap veteran 5th starter, I’d go for it. Otherwise, I’m not all that worried about a 5th starter’s job. Jay Jackson could very well be ready for it by midseason. Someone else could emerge, or you could pursue a trade. I don’t love that pen, particularly resigning Grabow at that cost, but it could be effective. I believe you could fill in middle relief internally with guys in the system. Jake Fox is hanging out there, so maybe he could be dealt for a pen arm (or maybe he’s sent to Detroit as a minor piece to a Granderson deal).
My scenari wasn't even a suggested scenario,
but representative of what we could do if we were willing to empty the farm.
Is he traded yet?
That's not bad either.
I’m not crazy about Castillo, but if he could keep up his OBP, he’d at least replace that part of Milton’s game. Man, he was awful defensively last year per UZR, though. The Hinske thing is interesting – haven’t heard that suggested anywhere before.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Matt Stairs
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
With his walk rate
I think he should be able to maintain a healthy OBP. I don’t like the defense either, but I think you could probably live with it and make defensive substitutions late in the game.
If Baker or Fox are on the bench, I’d like a lefty bat with some pop, provided you have enough defensive replacements.
As for Chad Tracy (below), he wouldn’t be a bad idea either, but both Hinske and Tracy are similar guys, and Hinske’s got a bit more pop and has been a bit more productive. If they cost similar amounts, I’ll take Hinske. If one’s cheaper than the other, then I’d go for the cheaper one.
I'll go one better than you
DeRosa P
DeRosa C
DeRosa 1B
DeRosa 2B
DeRosa 3B
DeRosa SS
DeRosa LF
DeRosa CF
DeRosa RF
Because St. DeRosa can bilocate and play every position on the field. He is the savior of the franchise.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
But can't DeRosa pitch complete games every time out?
And if he can’t do it, he comes back in as closer so he can record the CG and the SV in the same game? Nah. Woody to close and Ryno to manage.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Are you forgetting Ted Lilly?
Ted could pitch a CG and close.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
ADAM LIND
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
Ted Lilly - the most interesting pitcher on the planet
He’ll speak Russian .. in French.
He’ll toss a curve that looks like a fast ball.
He’ll eat catchers for breakfast.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
He once had an awkward moment...
…eh, who are we kidding. No, he didn’t.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I agree...
…and would add Blou can be “over the top” in how he comes across at times, but much of what he says makes perfect sense, but folks just don’t like the style in which he says it.
For 2010, there isn’t going to be any “magical” acquisitions that are going to drastically improve the Cubs roster. If this club does anything next year, it will have to be because Ramirez stays healthy, the pitching staff stays relatively healthy (and Zambrano can hold it together), Soto plays better and Soriano plays better. If most of these things don’t happen, the Cubs will NOT be in the playoffs in 2010.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
The question of how many of those things have to happen
directly relates to the off-season the Cardinals have. With the Reds cutting back and the Brewers potentially moving Fielder, the bar may not be set high. In 2009, St. Louis was as lucky with their health as we were unlucky with ours.
That said, I do think Curtis Granderson is one player who comes as close to being a magic bullet as any – because he gives us everything we need while also being consistent with getting younger (so long as his trade price doesn’t remove the very pieces we’d use in a rebuild).
Is he traded yet?
Granderson...
…is a fine player, but he is really a lefthanded version of Soriano (with a little less pop) as a leadoff man. Sure, he plays much better defense, but if you go all out to get him to be your leadoff guy, it really doesn’t solve any of the issues the Cubs have had there for sometime.
In the end, the Cubs probably won’t be able to compete with the other clubs that will try to acquire him anyway.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Two things
1) I wouldn’t want him leading off. Dome gets on base w/o much power – let him lead-off. Let Granderson hit 5th against RHP, letting his speed help the bottom of the lineup play small ball.
2) Jim Callis has said the Cubs’ have the strongest system of the teams looking at Granderson. The link’s in the rec’d post on Granderson.
Is he traded yet?
Totally agree about Dome leading off.
I just hope Lou does.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
olney indicated
that the mets/red sox/orioles were also looking at him. I have no idea why the Red Sox/Orioles would be all that interested. I guess, for the Red Sox, it could be a backup plan to Bay. The Orioles really don’t need another OF.
That said, if I was ranking the 6 teams in terms of prospects, I’d put them Red Sox, Orioles, Cubs, Yankees, Angels, Mets (last two are debatable on order).
It would be cruel justice
if the O’s were able to snag Granderson away from us because they could include Felix Pie as part of their offer.
Is he traded yet?
Thanks for the happy thought.
I have to go vomit at the thought now.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Hmmm....
Going back to the original thread post, I’m not sure we need “Much, Much more” than trading Bradley.
I’m as big of a skeptic as anyone. But if the Cubs’ only major offseason moves were just two of the aforementioned trades (Bradley for Milwood, package of players for Granderson), don’t you think that (barring a flood of injuries) the team would be in position to contend? I do. I think that with just these two moves (and the pending re-signing of Grabow):
1.) The rotation is solidified.
2.) The offense is a little better.
3.) The defense is quite better.
4.) The bullpen is solid.
I just don’t think that the Cubs need quite that “much, much more.” I think it’s just a little more, like one quality move………
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Nov 13, 2009 9:57 AM CST reply actions
Kevin Millwood solidifies a rotation ?!?!?
On what planet?
Who you going to package for Curtis Granderson? Are you prepared to give up Carlos Marmol and another solid piece of two from within the organization? And if you do that, then what happens to an already shaky bullpen situation?
"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)
A post like this
makes me feel warm & fuzzy because it feels like the season is just around the corner or perhaps even here. Nothing like
having Blou trash Hendry and now Ricketts to feel the season is in full swing. I can’t imagine what he is saying on the Bears blog but I remain a Packers fan anyway.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
I'd guess the Bears' misfortunes are driving him back to baseball.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
yep - I can only imagine how many times he cursed out that guess-throwin hack QB last night...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
You mean Rex Cutler?
He really doesn’t like wearing his helmet, does he? He gets into that baseball cap awfully quick on the sidelines.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Never louder than the last pick. I was watching the drive through
my fingers, hoping.
I’m hoping he’s not the same personality as MB, but Tweeter Jay is awfully quick to distance himself from the rest.
I’m hoping this JC is good at learning new offenses as he may have a new playbook to learn this offseason.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
There's no way Cutler is Bradley.
But you can see how and why he wore out his welcome in Denver.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Couple more games like last night over the next two
seasons and he’ll be elsewhere.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Well, except for that pesky contract extension they signed him to.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It's the NFL, where really bad decisions can
be undone.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
As a Bronco fan
I am pleased and happy to have Cutler playing with the Bears. His whiny act is gone, and being in the NFC eliminates the random possibility that he would get it together and screw up Denver’s season by beating them in a key game.
Orton is not headed for greatness. But considering that he was the equivalent of a “player to be named later” in the deal, he’s working out OK.
I know it's not a direct cause and effect situation
but one thing cannot be denied:
Teams that have Kyle Orton as their starting QB win a lot more games than they lose. I wish I had an explanation for it, because he is remarkably unremarkable. But facts is facts.
I suppose I would be a lot less upset about it if the Bears actually fielded an offensive line.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." ~Winston Churchill
Wonder if it's the suck up effect?
The rest of the team looks at Orton and says, “Well he’s not going to win this game single handed, so I’d better suck it up and contribute.”
That's probably
about right.
Jay Cutler, by coincidence, has also been unlikely win the game single-handedly. But the Bears have chosen to “suck it up” in a much different way.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." ~Winston Churchill
Sigh
The moral majority on Bleedcubbieblue.com rushing to the defense of Jim Hendry once more. And buying into the company line that all this team really needs is a few tweaks and better luck in order to be perfectly fine in 2010.
I don’t have solutions for all the needs on the club. I’m just tellin’ in like it is. But alas, if you don’t drink the kool-aid around here and a firecracker plan for improvement your dismissed by the drool monkeys and doorknobs that overwhelm this board these days.
I didn’t create the mess that the Cubs are right now. Jim Hendry did. And Jim Hendry is the one who has been granted a temporary stay of execution by his new bosses, so he had better come up with a plan. A plan that doesn’t default to his overpaying for dried up expensive turds on the free agency market (e.g., Mike Cameron) that we will deeply regret signing two weeks into the season.
You want solutions? Fire Hendry for starters and begin a full-scale rebuilding of the organization. Start with scouting, player selection and development.
"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)
Drool monkeys and doorknobs....
That’s gonna be the title of BLou’s memoirs.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Nov 13, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions
or 
All he knows is
name calling. :-(
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Paging Sandy Alderson... Paging Sandy Alderson...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Telling like you see it does not equate to telling it like it is.
Get over yourself. If being a Cub fan made me as miserable as it clearly makes you, I would give it up. It’s just a freekin game.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 14, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
Oh I have an answer
for that question but don’t want to get in trouble. ;-)
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
It is my vision...
… of how he must walk through life.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Nov 17, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
I'm actually tempted to Rec this.
Classic, classic stuff.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Sow the ground
with Lye?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Nov 16, 2009 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
BCB rush to the defence of...
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
If we had the 1927 Yankees lineup...
BLou would complain that we have no depth beyond Ruth and Gehrig.
1st
of all. BLou the prognosticator of Sandy Alderson being with the Cubs has now turned into a hitting instructor for Josh Vitters. Oh well see if you can find Sandy, I heard he’s running around the Dominican Republic trying to restore justice and order for MLB. Good luck on that one. The reply button didnt work today, but commenting on what toons said up there^^^ somewhere, that the 04 and 05 draft might as well not happened, especially in 05 which looks like it might not return one major leaguer or even a “cup of coffee” player.
some things
never change.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
So true in this case.
How’s it going Drew?
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Hi, Sue
well, the Bears didn’t cure my boys-in-blue-blues, so I thought I might come back and poke around…
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Nov 15, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah the Bears
are a sad bunch to watch right now. They need to make some changes.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
lol, at this
point I’d try anything.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
the line
needs to get more offensive.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Nov 16, 2009 6:45 PM CST up reply actions
How about Simms for Cutler?
Cutler could back up Kyle Orton.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm not ready to get rid of Cutler.
I want the Bears to add 1 NFL caliber receiver and see if they can make it work. If not then, then it won’t happen.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
I have a real problem with Cutler's attitude and demeanor.
Or, perhaps lack of same. He gives off a “who gives a crap” vibe all the time. At least Kyle Orton seemed to care when Lovie made idiotic play calls for him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
...
well, ok. I’m not going to comment on that. But the Bears’ problems aren’t with the QB. The OL is terrible, and receivers can’t remember routes. Give Cutler some protection, open up holes for the run, and thing would be better.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Nov 18, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
It would be better, but Cutler will still have a god
complex and think every receiver is open if he’s throwing to them.
The only way it will improve is if there are better receivers who sometimes do get open.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Drew, if those problems were fixed...
they wouldn’t have needed to trade Orton.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Nov 19, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
we all know
that if the players had hit we could have gone to the postseason in 09. the pitching was really good but too many guys had bad seasons. and way too many injuries. excuses sure but if these players rebound in 2010 we have a chance. a few tweaks wont hurt as hendry suggests. until the cubs instill a winning attitude in the players as opposed to having guys who curl up into balls during the postseason nothing will change. FORGET THE LAST 101 YEARS.
Here is the song for you BLou
http://www.imeem.com/tendermelody/music/SNKJF7f5/peggy-lee-is-that-all-there-is/
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
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