The Season May End Tonight: World Series Game 5 Preview, Yankees vs. Phillies, Monday 11/2, 6:57 CT
by Al Yellon on Nov 2, 2009 1:00 PM CST
in Game Threads
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PrintGrudgingly, I give the Yankees credit. Every time they've needed to come up with a big hit in a key situation in this series -- in fact, in the entire postseason -- they've done so. George Steinbrenner & Sons have bought themselves a championship this year, if they win tonight, by buying CC Sabathia and Mark Teixeira, two of the most important components of this Yankee team.
Still, they have to get past Cliff Lee tonight first -- and Lee has been the best pitcher in the 2009 postseason, winning three of his four starts, throwing two complete games, and allowing only two earned runs in 33.1 innings. I think we'll have at least one more game after today, game six in New York on Wednesday, because I think the Phillies will win tonight. And after that, who knows? Both Andy Pettitte and CC Sabathia would have to pitch on short rest in games six and seven -- unless Joe Girardi wants to give Chad Gaudin a start, something I'd think would be about on par with Joe having both his arms sawed off.
Coming back from a 3-1 deficit in the World Series has been accomplished five times: 1925, 1958, 1968, 1979, and 1985. There have been 36 seven-game World Series that ended up four games to three, so based on history, there's about a one-in-seven shot for the Phillies to pull off the comeback.
I hope they do -- not only because I've been rooting for them, but because there hasn't been a seven-game series in seven years and I'd like to see one.
Yankees at Phillies, 6:57 pm CDT. Yankees lead series 3-1. TV: Fox. Announcers: Joe Buck and Tim McCarver.
Baseball-reference.com game preview
Please visit our SB Nation Phillies site The Good Phight and Yankees site Pinstripe Alley.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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First!
It wouldn’t surprise me if the Phillies won tonight or even pushed it to seven games. Lee is “unflappable” and Pedro has pitched really well.
Also ESPN radio reported that Benjie molina is catching tonight, one less offensive threat for the Yankees. Just saying
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I think you mean Jose...
… but I agree with you. They’ll win tonight and Pedro will be successful in his next crack at Yankee Stadium.
After that, I actually don’t care who wins… but it’d be cool to see some Game 7 drama.
I don't care how long you've been around, you'll never see it all.
by Dou on Nov 2, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
I hate Fox and hate the Yankees, so
if the Yankees are going to win the damn thing, I hope they do it in 5 so that Fox loses it shirt on this thing once again. (Fox can’t make money unless the WS goes more than 6 games most of the time—the stupidity of how this thing is bid.)
But I am hoping the Phillies win it in 7…unfortunately, that would make it a financial winner for Fox, but I would love the humiliation for the Yankees—that would offset the financial win for Fox.
The Yin/Yang of baseball continues…
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
Johnny Damon's steals
I couldn’t believe how over-hyped that event has become. ESPN.com even mentioned it as “one of the greatest moments in WS history”.
Are you kidding me? The HBP and ringing double by ARod into the left field corner, I’m pretty sure, would have scored Damon from 2nd base.
Was it a heads up play? Of course it was. Did it have a huge impact? I don’t think so.
Some will say Lidge was off after that, or was afraid to throw the slider with a guy on 3rd. As Bobby Valentine said last night, if you stop throwing the slider with a guy on 3rd, you either need a new catcher, or a new pitch.
Philly’s bullpen is horrible. They’ll still win tonight and force Game 6 in NY.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Nov 2, 2009 1:17 PM CST reply actions
I disagree...
…I stated this in another thread, but I’ll repeat here.
We’ll never know what kind of impact it had, but these are the type of plays that fly under the radar and really can’t be measured. It was a very solid instinctive play by Damon and helped create a situation that I think helped out Rodriquez. Lidge relies heavily on getting guys to chase his slider in the dirt, and with a man on third (vs 2nd) Lidge is going to be much more cautious about throwing a 59 footer up there. Rodriquez ended up getting a good fastball to hit and that was the ballgame.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
You can conjecture as to the reasons why
but the indisputable fact is that Lidge did not throw any sliders to A-Rod or Posada once there was a runner on 3rd. Since the slider is his best pitch, by definition, he got beat throwing his 2nd or 3rd best pitches, which is something that will always be 2nd guessed.
Exactly...
…and since Lidge’s fastball is very very hittable, the Yankees got him in exactly the position they wanted him in.
I don’t care what Valentine says, it is always in the back of the pitchers mind (wild pitch) when you have a key run at 3rd. I don’t care if his catcher was Johnny Bench in his prime, it affects most pitchers. Did you see Lidge contantly liking his chops? He was concerned, and probably felt he may over throw a slider 5 feet in front of the plate and this affected his pitch selection.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Funny
It’s his best pitch, but he wouldn’t throw it with a guy on 3rd? Tons of faith he showed in his “best pitch”.
There are two outs in the inning…focus on the hitter, get him out…and move on.
Any pitching coach, or any pitcher for that matter, will tell you they never want to get beat on their 2nd or 3rd best pitch. Lidge failed in not covering third, and then failed again in his gameplan to ARod.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Nov 2, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions
Again...
…what’s important here is why he didn’t throw his best pitch, and I think it was because of the risk of a potential wild pitch. If Damon doesn’t use his smarts to get to third, I think it’s likely Lidge gives Rodriquez a steady diet of sliders and likely gets him out.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Yankees and Money
I suppose if I were in the Yankees situation, I’d do the same thing. Spend lavishly on free agents and hope they pan out. Oh yeah, having a decent farm system helps, too. The failure of many high-priced free agents with high payroll clubs to be productive is what has given some small-market teams a chance that have good farm systems. The Yankees seem to be spending their money more wisely these days.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
The key thing about....
…both the Phils and Yankees is their strength up the middle. Both clubs are rock solid in this area (with home grown talent) and this is one area the Cubs have to improve if they want to put together a perennial contender.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
ex-cubs factor says yanks by one
jerry and chad vs. paul, stevie and matt stairs – right?
Does the manager count?
If so, Joltin’ Joe Girardi should tie it up for the Yanks. And if I remember the rules, its either a flip of a coin or a flip of a goat. Either way, I hope it ends tonight so we can get to the best part of the post season (since the Cubs aren’t in thee WS), THE HOT STOVE!
Big game tonight...
…and if the Phils can win, I think this baby goes seven and then it could get interesting.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Monday Night Football has my attention tonight
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Phillies chances
Shouldn’t the Phillies chances be calculated as:
(number of times a team has won after being down 3-1) / (total number of times a team has been down 3-1)
It’s Monday so maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t think the total number of times a series has gone to seven games comes into the calculation.
I don't care how long you've been around, you'll never see it all.
Baseball is still being played? It's November for Pete's Sake!
The “World What” now? Serious?
What idiot scheduled “the summer game” in freaking November?
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
It's been colder in April.
Current temp in Philadelphia is 56, supposed to be in the high 40’s/low 50’s at game time. We’ve seen worse.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And Bud is thanking his lucky stars too...
I also remember having 6" of snow on the ground at this time of year in the midwest.
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
Just imagine if the Rockies had won the pennant.
There was a huge snowstorm there last weekend.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
they could have had the World Series at a neutral site
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
That must have been taken after the blizzard of 1979.
Right?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It is called the "Fall Classic"
It’s still fall, but if they keep this up it’s going to take the place of the Winter Classic. I’m willing to bet that only works well for hockey/
It was warmer...
… at the Winter Classic at Wrigley, last January 1, than it has been for a couple of Opening Days.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Can't we move the start of the season up?
You could play as many series as you could on the West Coast and in retractables, and finish the season before the final week of September.
Also, you cold avoid November baseball with a floating playoff schedule, moving dates up if the LDS or LCS finish early, like happened this year.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Nov 2, 2009 3:11 PM CST reply actions
Once again...
… the problem with playing too many series in warm weather/domes early in the year, is that those teams don’t want games loaded up in March & April either — because they, like everyone else, draw better when schools are out.
The floating playoff schedule — or just eliminating all the off days DURING series — would work better.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
that would take a commissioner not like the budster -
as soon as fox said you can’t do that because it might mess with our football tv bud would just say ‘ok’ and then come out and tell the press that he’d really like to have a day game
by doofus cubs guy on Nov 2, 2009 5:48 PM CST up reply actions
Please don't end, baseball season.
I’ll have nothing to do but work.
: – (
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Awww!
I wish I had nothing to do but work. Unemployment stinks.
CHASE UTLEY CAN HAVE MY BABIES
YANKS 1
PHILS 3
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Nobody interested in the last MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL GAME UNTIL MARCH?!
NOBODY!?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
It's not the last one
Hopefully…
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
PxP myself the whole game, here we go.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
4-1 Phils :)
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
5-1 now
2 outs, Bottom 3 – Burnett getting yanked
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
(checks again)
Sorry – that was no outs in the bottom of the 3rd. Now 1 out, men on 1st and 3rd.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
AJ Burnett everybody!
Now if Pedro can just dominate…
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
W00t!
6-1 now.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Yankees just want to win at home, damnit.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
6-2
I’m still hoping the Yanks lose the Series somehow.
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
does that ball go foul if Howard lets it go?
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
I dunno.
Foul eventually, yes. Before the base, or without touching the base, I’m not so certain. He did the right thing with it being that close.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Probably did
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
Wow
Cliff Lee in his career 41-0 with a 5 run lead.
*knocks on wood
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
OT
Touchdown Saints
21-14 with one minute until half
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
AFL update and question
Castro had another good day 2-4 with 2 RBIs and raised his BA to a league leading .423. Vitters was 1-4 with a triple and Gaub pitched a scoreless inning striking out two but here is the strange part. Michael Brenly is in the box score as having played catcher but not batted. As far as I know he was not in the AFL. Did something happen to Castillo that I missed ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
Castillo was placed on the DL
retro to 10/23. Brenly is his replacement on the roster.
source
"He put up Nintendo-type numbers." -Oneri Fleita [in regards to Kyler Burke's season]
Of course I should have checked there
Arizona Phil knows all.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Nov 2, 2009 9:30 PM CST up reply actions
HAH! Baseball is STILL ALIVE!
Phillies 6
Yankees 2
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
Chase Utley with a huge dong.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
gods, what a beast
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
The smell of the crowd, the roar of the greasepaint
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
GASP!
TALKING ABOUT OPS ON FOX! ARGH!!! MY HEAD’S GONNA EXPLODE!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
So Chase Utley
is the WS MVP right? Does it even matter if they lose?
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
there has been only 1 player to win the MVP in a losing cause i think
"hey
by jesus christos on Nov 2, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions
Only because he was a Yankee... ;-)
Bobby Richardson, 1960 World Series MVP. 11 for 30, 8 Rs, 1 HR, 12 RBIs. He must have had some great defensive plays because Mantle was just as good offensively. 10 for 25, 8 Rs, 3 HRs, 11 RBIs.
Oh, by the way, Pirates beat the Yankees, 4 games to 3. My favorite part – yes, even better than the Yankees getting beat – is that Yankees outscored Pirates 55-27. More than double the runs and they still lose…
Man, if Bud Selig was commissioner back then and Buck McCarver was calling the game, I’m sure they would have figured out some way to award the Series to Yankees anyway.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
man .. I cannot believe Ryan Howard
TWELVE strikeouts now
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
This game is over
8-2
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
It is not over if they Lidge pitch.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Nov 2, 2009 9:44 PM CST up reply actions
Stevie's warming up
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Quick help here:
Does “three days rest” refer to pitching on the third day, or pitching on the fourth day? Today is the 2nd, Game 7 would be on the 5th. Could Cliff Lee start that game?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Not available
He would have to pitch on TWO days rest .
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Nov 2, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions
That's what I thought...
…so why the HELL didn’t Cliff Lee pitch game 4?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
from what ive seen
manuel isnt that smart with managing the pitching staff
"hey
by jesus christos on Nov 2, 2009 9:58 PM CST up reply actions
because he would have been pitching on 3 days rest
CC is a horse – he has pitched several times on only 3 days rest and done well.
Lee on the other hand, has not pitched often on 3 days rest. Somebody was quoting some numbers on Lee and he obviously has done well on a regular cycle but even better on the times he’s had an extra day of rest.
Different strokes for different pitchers, I guess.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Derek Lowe did it in Game 7 of the 2004 NLCS IIRC
That worked out okay
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
You meant ALCS, right?
Just about any pitcher could have won that game — his team scored 10 runs.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I am out of Baileys
Perhaps some rubbing alcohol would do.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Nov 2, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
I settled for chocolate.
The cure for everything.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Nov 2, 2009 10:41 PM CST up reply actions
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
ewwww, tub fart
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
There may be more than just farting going on there
Just sayin’…
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Phils win!
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Who's the probables for Wednesday?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Pedro Vs Pettit
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Nov 2, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
So if there's a game 7...
…it’s gonna be who? Joe Blanton @ Chad Gaudin?!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Nope it would be Blanton Vs CC
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Nov 2, 2009 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
the idea of blanton starting game 7 scares me
but then again outside of lee and pedro theres really no one in the rotation i trust
"hey
by jesus christos on Nov 2, 2009 10:34 PM CST up reply actions
I think it would be CC and Hamels in Game 7.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
the idea of hamels starting game 7 scares me
"hey
by jesus christos on Nov 2, 2009 10:38 PM CST up reply actions
GAME 1
Lee @ Sabathia
GAME 2
Pedro @ Burnett
GAME 3
Pettitte @ Hamels
GAME 4
Sabathia @ Blanton
GAME 5
Burnett @ Lee
GAME 6
Pedro @ Pettitte?
GAME 7
Hamels @ Sabathia?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Wouldn't surprise me if Manuel plays a hunch
Assuming Pedro can handle the Yankees in Game 6 with minimal help from the bullpen, it would not surprise me if Manuel puts JA Happ on the mound in Game 7.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Fox
why do they insist on having former athletes/current color guys do on-field interviews? Grace is a terrible announcer and even worse at doing post-game interviews. He’s totally uncomfortable. They can’t find a professional who knows how to interview?
i hear steve phillips is looking for a job...
"hey
by jesus christos on Nov 2, 2009 10:38 PM CST up reply actions
loved Rollins' comeback to Grace's lame question ..
“Well, do you think you’re going to win the World Series?”
“We don’t have any choice!”
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
They can have Thom Brennaman.
Said “get over it” re: the fact that Brett Favre is no longer the Packers quarterback to Packers fans on Sunday.
I am German by ancestry. On November 9, I will be joining my fellow Germans in celebrating the 20th anniversary of Die Mauerfall. I have been to Berlin, seen what remains of the Wall, and seen the line where the Wall once divided the city.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 3, 2009 1:47 AM CST up reply actions
So what are the matchups for game six?
GO PHILLIES!
I am German by ancestry. On November 9, I will be joining my fellow Germans in celebrating the 20th anniversary of Die Mauerfall. I have been to Berlin, seen what remains of the Wall, and seen the line where the Wall once divided the city.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 2, 2009 10:51 PM CST reply actions
For the Phillies it's gonna happen
They really could win the series if they “survive” game #6. I’ve been very impressed by their team, even if they have a “weak” bullpen.
Game #6 will be very close, extra innings
Game #7 will be a coup de main by Lee, on short rest…
But then again what do I know?
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
by eths on Nov 3, 2009 2:10 AM CST via mobile reply actions
hate to say it but watching Burnette hang his head
was oddly therapeutic since the Horror of 2003
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
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