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More Photos Of The New Bleacher Signs

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Click on images to open larger versions in new browser windows (or tabs). BCB Photos by David Sameshima

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It looks ugly. I want to see it from inside the stadium. Hop the fence, Al, and take a few snaps!

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Nov 23, 2009 10:26 AM CST reply actions  

Temporary?

As I said in the other thread on this subject, I am guessing that this is temporary. Looks like they had someone draw up plans and run down and grab some plywood, 2X4s and green paint at the Home Depot. If the homeowner doesn’t agree to share some of the $ from the rooftop the Cubs move forward on something permanent. They’d easily be able to have something designed that would fit in well with the Wrigley design as they have done with past additions to the ballpark.

by dmlichte on Nov 23, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions  

I think that's exactly what is going to happen.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

clearly temporary.

look at the supporting posts that go down to the railing in the back. fans walking by (drunk or sober) could easily hit or grab them…

“Oww… a splinter!” pause while realization sets in... “lawsuit! lawsuit! I’m gonna be rich!”

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 23, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions  

If they're not temporary...

…I suggest you ballhawks dub those things “Damnit Signs” – as in, “Damnit! If that frickin’ sign wasn’t there, I would have caught that @#$%^ home run!”

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Nov 23, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

good idea

guess that means I should have been calling them “Damnit Bleachers” for the last few years…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 23, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

I thought it was funny.

by Gamecock on Nov 23, 2009 11:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Very convoluted issue.

Let’s hope the new marketing whiz figures out a way to get that revenue, which hopefully will transform itself into a new bullpen arm or something.

by chilango2 on Nov 23, 2009 10:32 AM CST reply actions  

Normally I'd be applauding this...

But the Ricketts family needs to be careful in now they treat the owners of that building…

That building is the most logical location of a future video board…and a video board would bring in a lot more money than a couple of small static advertisements on top of the left field bleachers.

by doc_blume on Nov 23, 2009 10:52 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

Added a third photo to the post.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2009 11:03 AM CST reply actions  

Good God, they are ugly!

Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

by eths on Nov 23, 2009 11:08 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

It's only intended...

… to obstruct the view from the TV cameras. That, we won’t know until April 12.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

I love this!

That Horseshoe sign is trashy!

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Nov 23, 2009 11:32 AM CST reply actions  

"Horseshoe" is trashy, but "Budweiser" is what - quaint? historic?

I’m not sure this building is the one to draw moral lines about. I like both beer and gambling, not sure how one can be deemed an institution and part of the culture at Wrigley, while the other merits erecting new structures to block it. Bottom line is the ballpark looks worse today than it did when Ricketts bought it, so hopefully this fight is just temporary.

by Orval Overall on Nov 23, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Did you miss the rest of the discussion

Where people pointed out that Budweiser is an actual sponsor of the Cubs?

This isn’t a moral issue. It’s about money.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 2:50 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I don't intend to wait.

As a season ticket holder and an occupant of that very location on an extremely regular basis, I plan to pen a letter to Mr. Ricketts immediately.

No doubt the revenues from my season ticket renewal pale in comparison to this advertising gambit, but I intend to make my feelings known to the management.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Nov 23, 2009 11:35 AM CST reply actions  

You are pretty worked up over this...

I don’t get it. What is there to be pissed about? It is clearly temporary, and will be gone by (or replaced with something better) by opening day.

“The dude should be able to affix whatever he wants to his roof!” Yeah… and the cubs should be able to affix whatever they want to their stadium.

“This is no worse than a Bud ad!” Yeah… but Bud pays the team a lot of money, and that money has tangible benefit for a fan of the team.

I bet you’ll never set foot inside the stadium as long as these are up. And your season ticket money doesn’t buy you a say in decorating decisions, it buys you a place to sit 81 times a year.

I’m just not sure why this is so upsetting?

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 23, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions  

ever hear of "empathy"?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 23, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes, but how does that apply?

It has been established that the fair way to handle the rooftop situation (a unique one) is for those piggybacking off the Cub’s product to pay the team 17%.

The guy who now owns this building has tried repeatedly to ignore and get around those established rules.

This has very little effect on those sitting in the bleachers, and like i stated, won’t be in place in it’s current form when tville next sits in those bleachers anyways. Getting so worked up over it seems silly, and i fear for tville’s heart once some of the REAL changes we all know are coming get underway.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 23, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Spock, is that you?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 23, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Now i'm lost.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 23, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

You seemed so logical.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

sorry...

… but tville has not come close to explaining why this bothers him. He sits in front of the sign. Thus far he’s said that he’s mad, but can’t clearly convey how this will impact him.

by dmlichte on Nov 23, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm afraid I feel the same way

It seems like much ado about nothing.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I can understand why tville might be upset...

IF and WHEN this affects his experience at wrigley.

It hasn’t yet done that, and i see very little indication that it ever will, no matter if it is left in place or moved.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 23, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

On what footing..........

……….do you make such comments? Do you know for fact that this eyesore will be gone?

I’ve paid for the "priviledge" to sit at Wrigley for many years, and since the reconfiguration of the bleachers, have sat in the spot now being occupied by this contraption. Having already "relocated" from my previous spot (eliminated by the bleacher make over), this is becoming a bit of an annoyance.

Don’t really care if you understand my position or not, but I plan to convey my concerns to the front office.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Nov 23, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

You aren't paying for the "priviledge" of a view of Waveland, or the casino sign.

You are paying for a view of the field, which this doesn’t affect in the slightest.

You are free to make your complaints, obviously… but if you really feel salty about this thing, why not wait till opening day to at least see if you’ll ever even be in the stadium at the same time that its up?

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 23, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Hmm.........

……..I suspect my view of Mr. Soriano will be impeded, at least based on what I can glean from the photoes.

Complaining in general will likely have little impact, but I feel it’s well within my bounds given the money I pay. And should my remarks make a difference, it seems providing same after opening day is a tad late should the structure still be standing at that time.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Nov 23, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

How do you figure?

Look at this at explain to me where you are sitting that these things block your view of any of the field.

Even in the top two rows of the section directly in front of the closer of the two boards, you’d have to be in the end seats and looking basically straight west for the things to be in your way.

The only way i could see this even remotely affecting anybody in Wrigley would be TWO PEOPLE at the top of that section maybe having a hard time with the very outer reaches of left field… and most of that is blocked for those in the bleachers anyways, unless you can see through brick and ivy…

Between the fact that this is unlikely to be around for opening day (there is no way that this particular unsightly and seemingly cobbled together solution is any more than a little muscle flexing for cheap on the part of the cubs) and the fact that you’d be griping about at most a few seats amongst a selection of 40,000 plus, it all seems a bit much.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 23, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Further

This is a very early mock-up that clearly was done as a negotiating tactic. If this goes forward, I’d be quite surprised if the placement is where the set-up is right now. I’d think that the final placement would be set back further, perhaps with supports coming off the back brick wall of the bleachers. I think we’d see the actual sign itself set back further than it is now, even behind the walkway.

by dmlichte on Nov 23, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd agree with that

clearly, this setup is done this way because it’s easy for them to brace the wall. A non-temporary wall would not be this flimsy.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Nov 23, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

This smacks of...

… “we’ve gotta make a point, but it isn’t worth us going beyond our petty cash drawer”.

If it becomes a real issue, you’ll probably see the screens coming out once it starts getting warm again.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 23, 2009 1:15 PM CST up reply actions  

a few things

First off, looking at the last picture, it looks like there are actually two “smaller walls” behind the “bigger walls”. Maybe its for support, but I feel like someone erected the walls, Cubs brass went out there and said “no… make it bigger” and they made the walls higher and wider.

Secondly, I highly doubt that any zoning laws would allow the Cubs to put anything permanent, supported by the iron work behind the last row that this is now being supported by. They better just hope that a storm doesn’t kick up and topple thing thing.

by dmlichte on Nov 23, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

The backs of the bleacher are not all lined up

The two walls you see are adjacent to each other, not in front of one another.

by madcow256 on Nov 23, 2009 4:51 PM CST up reply actions  

I know...

…but look closer at each individual wall. It looks like there is a smaller square behind a bigger one.

by dmlichte on Nov 23, 2009 5:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Gotcha

Could be. Might be an attempt to have part of it be reinforced so it doesn’t fall on pedestrians below.

by madcow256 on Nov 23, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions  

AJS...........

………….I am, indeed, ONE of those TWO PEOPLE that would be unable to see.

Further, for those who might not understand how much of a pain this could be, there are a number of “problems” these boards create. Not until you sit in this spot could you really grasp the details (sounds weird, I know, but others who regularly sit here know what I mean).

Anyway, I agree that it is not likely to be around, but I’m not prepared to wait until opening day to voice my concerns.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Nov 23, 2009 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

That'd be one thing if this was assigned seating...

… and if that was the case (and if these had any chance of being in place on opening day), i’d feel for you. But seeing as it isn’t assigned seating, couldn’t you just… move two feet towards the lake? Lean really far left during certain plays, much as those behind the giant poles in the grandstands must do? Or sit someplace else entirely and leave the two now-crappy seats for those who roll in late?

I’ve sat atop the bleachers many times (generally grab the top row if i can’t get the very first) and i understand the other “problems” you feel these might create (including lack of breeze, extra heat, and whatever else) but i promise you none of those things you feel entitled to as part of those seats is guaranteed in your ticket.

Anyways, if you really think they’d leave these in place in their current form past the start of play, than feel free to send your objections. I’m sure they’ll be fruitless, as these obviously won’t be there in 133 days anyways.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 23, 2009 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not unsympathetic to tville's frustrations

Because I have an appreciation for history, familiarity, etc. But to me, this comes across as the fans thinking that they own the bleachers or a spot in them. As much as the team would say the right thing for P.R., the Ricketts family owns the bleachers. It’s up to them to do what they want with them.

I suspect that tville’s protests would go unanswered, but if he writes an unemotional, professional letter, there is a chance that the team would give him some kind of token gift.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Whether assigned or otherwise........

……….it’s where I sit, and after having “my” previous location altered by the renovation, it’s annoying to have to (potentially) face something like this. The new home has become comfortable, if you know what I mean.

And Badger, I know what you mean about so many bleacher folks behaving as if they own the place. I didn’t think I was one of those types, but maybe I’m more like this than I think. Trust me, the letter will be professional, and while I’m not in search of chotskies, a new key fob would really make my holiday season…….

In the end, it all comes down to this: WHY ARE THEY SCREWING WITH MY LITTLE SLICE OF HEAVEN?!?!

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Nov 23, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Playoff tickets are asssigned......

………and that is my seat assignment.

So for me this is not some random act.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Nov 23, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

More Cash = Playoffs?

That’s not an entirely accurate assessment.

I give them more money each year as they raise ticket prices, but I’ve not paid for post-season seats each year.

This team needs far more than the revenue from the douche bag across the street in order to make the playoffs. I think this site has covered that topic ad nauseum.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Nov 23, 2009 8:40 PM CST up reply actions  

No, not at all.

But to say the Cubs might not make the playoffs without getting cash from a source that they’ve never tapped before is certainly far from a given.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Nov 24, 2009 7:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Actually...

more revenue (carefully acquired) = greater profit

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Nov 24, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I thought the Cubs allowed bleacher season ticket holders

to choose their spot for the playoffs. You really think they would assign a season ticket holder to an obstructed view ?

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Nov 24, 2009 6:25 AM CST up reply actions  

I've chosen this spot.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Nov 24, 2009 7:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Not sure because............

………I have no idea what “invonvienent” means, however, I’m more akin to WW II Belgium in this case.

Two opposing factions are waging a war over something that does not involve me, per se, yet I’m trapped in the middle. Not seeking martyr votes, mind you, but simply stating my circumstances.

I just want to sit where I normally sit and be unfettered by this issue. To that end, I intend to explain same to Cubs’ management.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Nov 24, 2009 9:18 AM CST up reply actions  

invonvienent = inconvenient

And i’m not trying to pick a fight with you, just trying to understand why you wish to play by some rules in the bleachers that everybody else doesn’t play by.

It is a general admission seating area. This would be akin to complaining because Ravinia landscaped over where you like to sit, or getting mad at the Aragon for sticking a beer cart where you like to stand for concerts.

I generally get super annoyed when i get to the bleachers two hours early only to have all the people who got there two and a half hours early holding seats for their friends who’ll show up 15 minutes before game time. This seems awfully close to that. Would you try to boot two kids who got in line early and somehow got there before you?

Part of the greatness of the bleachers is you can get different views, experience the games different ways… i get wanting to hang in the same general area if you enjoy its conveniences or the people nearby, but laying stake to two specific seats in a GA area of 5200 and then trying to play some part in how they are affected by general stadium upkeep or business seems weird.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 24, 2009 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Being a season ticket holder.......

…….is, in a way, like having an assigned seat. Season ticket holders go in a separate entrance and have access a few minutes ahead of the crowd. This is done, obviously, so season holders can pick the same location each time, akin to someone who has season tickets in Section 206, Row 18, Seat 3, for example.

So unlike Ravina or the Aragon, the Cubs acknowledge the desire of season ticket holders in the bleachers to sit in the same location day in and day out. They are tacitly saying, “go to your seat”. This is further cemented by the direct assigning of the location of post season tickets.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Nov 24, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I interpret it differently, i guess.

I’ve always thought getting let in first implied “go get the BEST seat”, which is obviously open to debate and may even vary from afternoon to afternoon.

If their intention was for you to go get YOUR seat, why not just assign the seats? Why force you to jump through the hoop of showing up 2+ hours early? What if another season ticket holder gets in line before you, and sits in “your” two seats?

The basic idea that this is a GA area and that there is no ownership of the seats still applies. And as long as the team is messing with a GA area and not some specific person’s seats, i don’t see the problem. If they make those seats a less attractive option, you can use the luxury of getting in first to snag something more to your liking.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 24, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

The problem with assigning the seats would be...

… that if you want to come with a friend who doesn’t have season tickets, where do they sit? Where would I sit with my son, who comes to 15 or 20 games a year with me?

Most of the season ticket holders know each other and know where everyone’s preferred location. No one sits in anyone else’s seats.

And there IS a tacit acknowledgement by management that, since we paid for a full season ticket, we should be entitled to the “same” seat for every game, just as someone who has full season tickets in box seats or terrace or wherever.

I think tville is a little over the top here — since that thing is NOT going to be there on opening day — but his point IS valid regarding bleacher season ticket holder seating.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 24, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions  

As mentioned waaay back.......

……..in this post, Al, I hope all prognosticators are correct about this being a short-time situation.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Nov 24, 2009 2:09 PM CST up reply actions  

It's good that you're not seeking martyr votes

Because you’re not likely to get many. And, once again, the likelihood of this infringing upon your view of the game is slim to none.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 24, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Understood

And again, I’m not unsympathetic. It sounds like you’ve got perspective on this and not necessarily feeling entitled (remember, tone is impossible to read) – carry on!

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

WHY ARE THEY SCREWING WITH MY LITTLE SLICE OF HEAVEN?!?!

Money.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Nov 23, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions  

while I generally decry the ridiculous salaries and revenues

no, I don’t specifically blame the Cubs, especially since they appear to be c@ck blocking a douchebag. :D

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Nov 23, 2009 8:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Why?

Because it’s not yours. It’s theirs.

Pretty simple, really.

by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Nov 23, 2009 6:07 PM CST up reply actions  

actually

in any customer or service based industry, you’d get flambee’d for taking that exact attitude. Which is why you’ll never hear the Cubs say anything like “its our park, we can do what we want to it.” Fans expressing opposition to these things is how they get kept in check. (Someone earlier replied that its also the landmark zoning; true, but the reason for that is popular outrcy being acted on by city alderman).

So, no, its not that simple. Really.

by Orval Overall on Nov 23, 2009 7:06 PM CST up reply actions  

When you have a waiting list as long as the Cubs have

it seems pretty simple to me.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett

by berselius on Nov 23, 2009 7:10 PM CST up reply actions  

And if playing hardball to get a cut of the money Horseshoe is paying

requires hurting the feelings of tville and the like, but nets us another player who can help the team rebound next year, I think the rest of us will be just fine.

by madcow256 on Nov 23, 2009 7:50 PM CST up reply actions  

what right do the Cubs have to their money?

Do the Cubs pay 17% of his property tax, mortgage, repairs to his house, mow the yard? Hell that house has been there a lonnnggggggggggg time see Al’s post last week did the owner have to pay when WGN was advertised there? Viewing the game IE selling tickets to an event therefore depriving (potentially) the Cubs from having someone sitting in their stands and buying their booze takes money from the team. If they want to buy the damn house then they can put whatever in the hell they want to on the house.

As an aside to the Cubs go after every other business in the neighborhood? How much does Murphy’s and Harry Carray’s pay to the Cubs? Where does it stop do they get a cut of the police officers salary when he directs traffic because he’s sure there just because the Cubs are.

by KyCubsFan on Nov 23, 2009 8:56 PM CST up reply actions  

They aren't doing anything to the house or the owner

He can do whatever he wants within zoning laws. The Cubs can also make additions to their stadium as they like and if it blocks that houses ad too bad for them. If the Cubs were not playing at Wrigley this guy would have no revenue.

by LT on Nov 23, 2009 9:27 PM CST up reply actions  

agreed

On the Cubs rights to alter there stadium and they still have no right to his money. I would let them go on this gambit to see how far they take this because it makes the stadium look stupid.

Again my question is do they get money from the bars and restaurants where does it stop? How about this lets make a Cubs tax if you do business within 3 miles of Wrigley field you are required to pay the Chicago Cubs 17% of your revenue because if they weren’t there you wouldn’t be either.

by KyCubsFan on Nov 23, 2009 9:35 PM CST up reply actions  

The Cubs don't have any leverage over that though

If they did, you’d be sure they’d use it.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett

by berselius on Nov 23, 2009 10:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Sorry, Ky, but this is a capitalist society

At the risk of sounding rude, your strawman argument really comes across as an entitlement mentality.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 11:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Capitalist Soceitey

WHAT!?!?!!? Sounds to me like you just proved my point it is a capitalist society and the owner of the house which he paid his money to buy he is putting his resource “the house” to work for him to make money. Sounds like a perfect use of the capitalist system to me.
The entitlement here would seem to come from the Cubs who want to be entitled to money that comes from someone else’s resources.
When was the last time that house sold? If the Cubs want to receive a portion of the advertising maybe they should offer the gentleman fair market value for it and then take 100% of the revenue to be gained by having advertising on it. They would then have 100% complete control over who advertised there at that time as well.

by KyCubsFan on Nov 25, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Did you even read this before you hit post?

The Cubs are not obligated to allow the ad to be visible in their stadium, ie their house. The boards don’t infringe on anyone’s rights.

The fact that you can’t see that is dumbfounding.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 25, 2009 10:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I do see that clearly

As stated previously I agree completely with the Cubs rights to block the view of the house what I don’t see is the Cubs right to the mans lawfully gained money. If the cubs want to build a green monster then fine they still shouldn’t get a cent. Ricketts best option here would be to buy the damn house it sold for 8 million dollars in 2008. Even if the Cubs paid more for it now they would be able to sell this advertising space, clean up the house make it an attraction, use it for the marketing offices etc.

by KyCubsFan on Nov 27, 2009 11:40 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Again, I think you miss the point.

Yes, the man who owns the building has every right to make money off selling ad space on his roof. However, that sale is premised on the idea that the ad will be seen by 3 million fans at Wrigley and many more on TV.

The Cubs don’t make a dime off this — and why should the guy who owns the building make money that way?

Eventually, I think the Cubs and the building owner will make a deal — but this man has been known to be stubborn about making such deals, which is why the Cubs have taken a hard line with him.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 27, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Ok, I see what you are saying

But Al’s comment above is the point – they don’t owe the Cubs anything, but the Cubs are within their rights to block the sign. The ad space is not nearly as valuable if it doesn’t show up on television.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 27, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Agree to Disagree (last comment, I'll hang up and listen now:)

I do see the point. However I don’t see a difference in someone buying a house and selling a billboard vs. opening a bar a block from Wrigley and marketing to Cubs fans. Both operations have someone investing their capital with expectations of returning a profit. Only one is being asked to share his revenue. When the owner bought the house had the Cubs ever asked the owner for a percentage of ad revenue, if not then he had no reason to think they would. If the owner sells the ad space back to a sponsor that is inside of Wrigley Field do the Cubs then not ask for percentage?
I still think the best solution for the Cubs is to buy the house and make all future ad revenues 100% theirs. This is something that couldn’t be done when the house sold in 2008 because the Tribune Co never would have bought the house.

by KyCubsFan on Nov 27, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

links

I’ve read a couple of other articles on this and you say the owner of the house is particularly stubborn(we must share this trait). This topic obviously sparks my interest if you know of any links to other discussions would love to know of them.

by KyCubsFan on Nov 27, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I was trusting others on the stubbornness of that owner

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 27, 2009 4:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Because a bar is a legal business...

… and the Cubs have no legal right to block any such business from making money. However, as you may note, the Cubs did open their own bar (Captain Morgan Club) in an attempt to siphon off some of that business for themselves.

In fact, this guy is NOT the only person who has been asked to share revenue. ALL of the rooftops share 17% of their revenue with the Cubs, as part of a deal made a few years ago. Only Tom Gramatis, owner of this building, has been a jerk regarding making such deals.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 27, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, it is different than the rooftops with seating

I will grant you that.

Those owners were doing something analogous to stealing cable and charging others to watch.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 27, 2009 4:44 PM CST up reply actions  

They do get money from the rooftop owners

because they make money by DIRECTLY selling access to Cub games. It is one thing to benefit by selling products and services to people who come into the area to see a Cubs game but something else entirely to sell access to watching a game or to get advertising ON CAMERA to a TV audience. The Cubs are free to do what they want to get a share of that revenue or to block it.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Nov 24, 2009 6:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Here's the thing

The businesses around Wrigley still have a chance of making money because they provide a widely accepted service – beer, food, social hangout, this guy provides seats so someone can watch a cubs game and advertising space for people to see during a cubs game – he benefits solely from Wrigley Field and could not hope to make money without it…I dont think Horshoe would pay to have a sign on a random house in an old part of town nor would people pay to sit in bleachers to watch the woman in 41B cook dinner. Absolutely he needs to pay 17% or expect Tommy Boy to do everything he can to shut his business down…I am pissed at the Bud House guy not paying what is due…freeloading is only for those on Welfare not Cubs fans.

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.

by hansman1982 on Nov 24, 2009 7:38 AM CST up reply actions  

The Cubs have a right to their money

because they are profiting off the product the Cubs were giving them for FREE.

This is a business, like any other business, ownership and operations managers have a PnL to answer to every day of the week.

WGN was/is not only a Cubs sponsor but a MAJOR reason why the Cubs are a national draw.

Murphy’s also owns a roof top or 2 and they were part of the eventual settle of 17% (gross receipts) a year for 20 years.

I totally sided with the Cubs on this before and will continue to side with them.

Baseball is a business first and foremost. And until people at least try to understand that and respect that, they will continue to be frustrated and struggle with decisions such as these.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Nov 24, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions  

It's a whole lot more likely to be permanent if...

the fans don’t voice their outrage over what an eyesore it is. Whether or not tville’s view is actually blocked on gameday, there’s nothing wrong with fans getting worked up about this kind of thing to make sure Ricketts knows there is a price to be paid — in p.r., goodwill, and possibly ticket sales — to doing things that disrupt the look and feel of the ballpark. If he thinks this kind of stuff is broadly accepted, why wouldn’t he put comparable ones in right field?

by Orval Overall on Nov 23, 2009 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly

I can kind of see tville’s point – but I don’t agree with it.

If Orval or someone else wants to suggest a protest, I’ll write to Ricketts expressing my approval for him trying to make more money to improve the club and facilities and start that campaign.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

That sort of IS the point.

tville’s letter seems like like a lot of effort just to prove a sort of pointless point. The team will likely react with a “this guys nuts, obviously he’ll never sit anywhere near this crappy thing” shrug, or a “this guys nuts, if he doesn’t like the view, he can sit in different seats” shrug.

Either way, its a pointless point.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 23, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Its not pointless to defend something thats important to you,

even if you have no control over it. Maybe I’m on the minority side of this thing, but it seems to me the only way fans have influence on these issues is if they speak up, and so tville says he’s going to speak up. I think your perception about the Cubs’ response is inaccurate; if they were not sensitive to the aesthetic feel of Wrigley as an old-time ballpark, we long ago would’ve had an electronic scoreboard and an outfield upper deck.

by Orval Overall on Nov 23, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Not entirely true re: modifications

At this point, landmark status prohibits a lot of that. Before, a lack of a competitive product and attendance did.

What AJS and I are saying is, this is not going to be a major change to the park’s feel.

And, as discussed elsewhere, screw the asthetics – I want a winner.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree, but...

… the way this is built could be dangerous to people walking underneath.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2009 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Right, but this isn't a design that will last

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions  

That view would only be inaccurate...

… if these were permanent.

They aren’t.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 23, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

There's really nothing pointless...........

…………about me requesting that they not screw around with “my” location in the bleachers.

Further, it is “my” seat because the Cubs issue these tickets to me specifically during the playoffs. So I do indeed have a vested interest in the activities in and around this location.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Nov 23, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

You misunderstand

I’ve got no vendetta against you. My comment to tville above nothwitstanding, AJS’s point pretty much sums up where I was going with that.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

will you also write Ricketts a letter expressing your approval when the Cubs raise ticket prices next year?

and the year after and after and after… After all, it’s more money to improve the club and facilities.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 23, 2009 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

nope...

… I’ll just decide when the ticket price increases merit my no longer going to Wrigley Field and I’ll stay home or go less often.

by dmlichte on Nov 23, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Ballhawk, I respect your opinions, agree with many of them and like chatting with you on BC

but you are off-base on this. The Cubs are a business and not there to provide free revenue for the neighbors.

If you don’t defend your copyright, you lose it – not the best analogy, but it’s not completely inappropriate, either. The rooftop owners are a very unsympathetic group, and this one sounds like the worst of the bunch.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 10:09 PM CST up reply actions  

*on BCB, not BC

We’ve never talked about Boston College, IIRC

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 10:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you missed my point - I'm actually on the Cubs side on this one

My efforts here have been to try to get folks here to understand why tville is upset. Perhaps I’ve gone about it in too much of a roundabout way but here’s my thought process…

You said you would write Ricketts a letter in support of his efforts to make more money to improve the club and facilities. Others have indicated similar thoughts, more or less stating that as fans, we should be in favor of this (protecting sponsors, more ad revenue from bleacher signage) because this can help the team be more competitive and win.

So far, so good, right? And as a fan, I agree with this concept. But my (counter)point was intended to make you (and others) think a bit about what you’re really saying and to make sure you were consistent in your thinking.

Ricketts has already said he’s going to raise ticket prices. I would imagine that’s not going to go over too well with the fans. And I’ve argued elsewhere that frankly, the Cubs have the leverage to raise ticket prices quite a bit if they wanted to. I’m sure that would go over even less well with the fans.

But logically speaking, I would wonder why they would be upset. After all, this would be another way the Cubs could make more money to improve the club and facilities, be competitive, and win. We should all be in favor of this, right? Which is why I asked (tongue partly in cheek) if you would write a letter to Ricketts in support of this as well.

Well realistically speaking, of course it’s easy to see why fans would be upset. Higher ticket prices affect them directly. A small billboard sign in the bleachers most likely doesn’t affect them at all.

Essentially, it’s the NIMBY argument. It’s very easy to support something when there’s little to no negative impact on you directly, i.e. it’s not in your backyard. Well, what we’re seeing here are the opening salvos in something that is almost literally in tville’s backyard. Of course, it remains to be seen what the final outcome will be. But he has every right to be upset now and take appropriate actions, however futile they may be.

And I understand why most folks wouldn’t understand that or think he’s making too much of a fuss. All I’m saying is you might think differently if you were in his shoes or if something else came along that impacted you directly, hence my higher ticket prices argument.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 24, 2009 12:56 AM CST up reply actions  

oh, and just to be clear...

I’m not trying to make tville out to be a martyr or anything. I’m almost positive that if his preferred seat location was a section over, he wouldn’t think twice about this whole thing.

Unless of course, it blocked his view of the hot dog guy out on the street… ;-)
Choriiiiiiiizo!!!

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 24, 2009 1:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Wow.

I see this guy every day, but didn’t know there was an actual photo of him.

Oh, and Aaron Miles is taller than he is.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 24, 2009 8:01 AM CST up reply actions  

And if Chorizo..........

……….doesn’t receive compensation from me, how is expected to maintain his lifestyle?

When you scratch below the surface, this whole mess impacts far more people than you might realize.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Nov 24, 2009 8:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Ok, I get your point - and yes, it was roundabout

Part of the reason that it was obscured (the point, that is) is that you expressed your frustration regarding the new bleachers in the other thread on this topic.

I understand exactly why tville is upset about this, but like AJS, I think he’s jumping the gun on it. Those boards aren’t going to be there in 5 1/2 months – at least not like they are now. I’ve said all of that already.

Orval Overall is the one that I was responding to about the letter writing, though – and by you making your point within that discussion, it came across as you disagreeing with the Cubs. I don’t see how he’s got any legit beef. His gripe is, “Don’t besmirch beautiful Wrigley Field”, and I say, to hell with that. If two boards are really going to ruin his experience to the point where he feels the need to formally protest as a paying customer, then his priorities are much different than mine as a fan. I think if those hastily cobbled boards enable the Cubs to negotiate some revenue – in November – good for them.

The ticket prices are not an analogous situation to what O.O. is upset about. And, like others have said, if the prices get to a yet to be determined threshold, the extent of my protest will be to no longer attend games.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 24, 2009 6:38 AM CST up reply actions  

The NIMBY argument implies that your backyard isn't negotiable.

tville’s argume is essentially “they shouldn’t mess with this area because i sit there”… but he’s somehow unwilling to sit elsewhere and would prefer to gripe to the the cubs. This ISN’T his backyard, it is an area in a general admission section that he previously preferred for viewing the game. If they change the area so that he no longer prefers it… move elsewhere.

I know i’m showing a lack of empathy in the eyes of ballhawk, and that is fine. I just don’t get the sense of entitlement. Does tville expect other people to move if he is beaten there? Doesn’t all of this “those are my seats” talk defeat the purpose of the GA bleachers?

I agree that in a very small way, these things might affect the viewing of whoever sat in those two seats. I just would never have the instinct to complain about it over moving to a different two seats in a GA area. That is the whole point of GA… first come, first served to the best area. If this area is no longer the best… move on.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 24, 2009 9:14 AM CST up reply actions  

because he doesn't have

a beef with the homeowners in right field.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Nov 23, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions  

On what footing..............

……….do you make such comments? Do you know for fact that this eyesore will be gone?

I’ve paid for the “priviledge” to sit at Wrigley for many years, and since the reconfiguration of the bleachers, have sat in the spot now being occupied by this contraption. Having already “relocated” from my previous spot (eliminated by the bleacher make over), this is becoming a bit of an annoyance.

Don’t really care if you understand my position or not, but I plan to convey my concerns to the front office.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Nov 23, 2009 11:50 AM CST reply actions  

Sorry. Strange duplication.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Nov 23, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

I hear your frustration,

…it may be a matter of time before they are gone b/c the Casino, or anyone else, wont be paying that guy for long if their advertisement cannot be seen.

"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." --Mark Twain

by cooliogirl47 on Nov 23, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions  

This is certainly temporary

a new more durable screen may be built, but those screen are very temporary.

by Imtrejo on Nov 23, 2009 12:43 PM CST reply actions  

I just came back from a drive by the ballpark.

Those things are even more “rickety” (pun intended) than they look in the photos. It really does look like they went to Home Depot, got some lumber, painted it green (well, most of it, anyway) and put it up almost literally overnight.

As pointed out above, this is being done to attempt to deprive Tom Gramatis’ advertiser (Horseshoe) of the exposure it gets on TV (it won’t block the view from much of the seating area). It may well be that the Cubs tried to negotiate with Gramatis and failed, and this is their message to him — play fair or we won’t.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2009 12:55 PM CST reply actions  

again...

… this is not a final product. This is a temporary structure that was erected to give people an idea of the view that the final product may inhibit.

by dmlichte on Nov 23, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions  

yes i know this

but what else would they do in terms of height? It looks so much out of place unless they extend the sides along the entire side of Wrigley, which would never happen

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Nov 23, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe they will paint a big red arrow on it

“If your HR hits Al Yellon, you win a lifetime supply of Big Gulps”

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey!

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2009 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, it might bring more traffic to the site . . . .

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

It might at that.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

final product

It may be the same height, but I think the issue is the materials and structure that you’d see. First off, I imagine that the final product would be flush with the back wall of the bleachers, not right at the back of the last row of seating.

I also think you’d see the structure made out of similar materials that are used on the bleachers… steel, brick, etc… If you look at this pic of Fenway you’ll see how they were able to erect the Sports Authority and Volvo signage behind the green monster using similar colors and materials to the surrounding areas, making them fit in.

by dmlichte on Nov 23, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Yuk

…that’s alot of signage

"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." --Mark Twain

by cooliogirl47 on Nov 23, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I tend to agree...

… it is a good amount of signage, and the Cubs, at least thus far, have not shown a desire to add that much. But they can definitely add a few signs, if they desire, and have them blend in. I will say, though, the amount of some signs in newer stadiums (Chase Field, to name one) makes this pic of Fenway seem bare.

by dmlichte on Nov 23, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I posted something similar a while back, but

It’s disingenuous for a fan base to tout the quaitness and intrinsic history of Wrigley Field and decry signage at the same time.

Ebbets Field:

Crosley Field:

Polo Grounds:

I could go on, but the point is that the amount of signage in WF is more dissimilar to the “good old days” than it is similar.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 2:55 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Two notes:

I realize cooliogirl isn’t talking about the history in her post, but there are fans that fret about signs because of tradition.

I also realize that “quaintness” has two n’s . . .

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

good point

I’m not against the signs but is it possible for all the ads to not look so distracting-ly trashy?

"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." --Mark Twain

by cooliogirl47 on Nov 23, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Fair question

But trashy is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. I think that the Cubs have done a decent job of making them less obtrusive than in other parks.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Or how about this photo of a place the Cubs used to play at...

… West Side Grounds, 1910:

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Or even -

Wrigley Field!
(1935)

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions  

OT- I love the shape of that infield dirt

"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella

by El Borto on Nov 23, 2009 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

lol.....

but also OT…I always thought the Polo Grounds was a cool concept dug deep like that. People used to watch the game from that “hill” didnt they? It’s like a huge version of the rooftops. Think of all the lost revenue.

"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." --Mark Twain

by cooliogirl47 on Nov 23, 2009 4:30 PM CST up reply actions  

all aesthetics is in the eye of the beholder.

To this eye, Wrigley looked better in 1985 than it did in 2005. It looked better yesterday than it does today. and it looks better today than it will if Ricketts adds a bunch more signs that change the look of the ballpark.

Just one person’s subjective opinion, but I suspect a fair number of loyal, ticket-paying fans share it.

by Orval Overall on Nov 23, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Those loyal, ticket-paying fans...

… would quickly be replaced with other loyal, ticket paying fans who were able to recognize and embrace the reality of sports in the 21st century… those ad dollars are part of the deal we enter in to when we cheer these days.

Somebody has to pay Soriano while his contract goes up millions for each of the next 74 or so years. I’d rather Bud Light or The Horseshoe or somebody else pay for it than I do in the form of $100 bleacher tickets and $12 beers.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 23, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

I already pay $100 when I want to sit in the bleachers. Most of us do, the money just doesn’t go to the team. And no one’s saying they shouldn’t find ways to enhance payroll, but people who think there is no value in Wrigley’s classic appearance are pretty likely to squander a big reason for the team’s $1bn value.

by Orval Overall on Nov 23, 2009 3:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd rather have seen them put in a ribbon board...

… they’d have made more money, and had fewer goodwill problems.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm all for that.

My point was more to the fact that more advertising IS coming, and that in the ads → revenue → better product on the field sense of the argument, those ads are GOOD.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 23, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Correct.

It’s the way they went about this that seems… well, odd.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2009 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

More advertising..

Advertising, while icky, is a good revenue stream…and its a revenue stream which the Cubs will eventually need a video board for…and that means they have to either negotiate with the Horseshoe building owners on or the Miller Lite/Torco building owners to put a board up since there is no other place to really put a big thingy like that without obstructing the view of the rooftops.

Hopefully this is a part of a larger strategy…almost a threat like the wind screens were with the rooftop owners. The Cubs eventually got a slice of that pie when they started playing with the wind screens in the bleachers to block the views out there. If the strategy is played right, the Cubs will get a slice of the revenue from the advertising on the rooftop and then begin a long term relationship which could lead to a video board being place on that building.

by doc_blume on Nov 23, 2009 4:41 PM CST up reply actions  

It just doesn't seem as if a "threat" is the best idea...

… unless they tried other ways first and were rejected.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2009 4:48 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah...I would agree with you on that.

But, for some reason, this seems to be the strategy that the Cubs like to use. They seem to have gotten their way more times than not in the past by doing similar threats.

I would assume, though, that there were some negotiations that recently broke down in this matter.

by doc_blume on Nov 23, 2009 4:52 PM CST up reply actions  

yep - I guess leaving the bloody goat head in Gramatis' bed wasn't enough

Aaargh! Aaaaaaaarrrgghh!! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrggghhh!!!!

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 23, 2009 5:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Cool...

I didn’t know the Ricketts’ were related to the Corleone family. I like where this is going now.

by doc_blume on Nov 23, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Wasn't it a horse head?

As in his prized thoroughbred racehorse? Just saying.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Nov 24, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

yep - a horse of course

I just tried to make it more Cub-like by changing it to a goat

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 24, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

what are you going to do when they figure out they can do both?

i.e. get Bud Light / Horseshoe to pay for it AND charge you $100 for bleacher tickets and $12 for beer

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 23, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Same as everybody else...

… deal with it / not go. But i’d rather see that $100 ticket AND a Bud Light ad than a $150 ticket and no ad. THAT is my point.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 23, 2009 5:29 PM CST up reply actions  

1985

Remember what the scoreboard looked like then?

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions  

The Bud ads?

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 23, 2009 10:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Except the good old days

comparison is Wrigley’s good old days, but you’re point is well taken…

Nice pics.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Nov 24, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Ok, you also have a point

However, think of the team’s play during those days.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 24, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions  

The thing is...

I stood in Fenway and wasn’t overwhelmed by the advertising a bit. I literally FEEL all the ads when i walk in to most venues.

It is entirely about how it is done. Incorporating aesthetically pleasing and non-intrusive ads that are still effective CAN happen. I sincerely doubt a dunkin doughnut race on the Coca-Cola Video Board during the Sony 7th Inning Stretch will sell any more doughnuts than the ushers handing out coupons does.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 23, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

This causes less of an uproar at Fenway because they've generally always had advertising

specifically in left field

Come visit me inside Wrigley along the Addison side mezzanine fence straight up from 1st base.

by section229beer on Nov 23, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

It could be worse

Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

by eths on Nov 23, 2009 3:33 PM CST reply actions  

does anybody know

if they would block views from the rooftop seats. Im rather disoriented when trying to figure out where in relation to the whole park (including the rooftopseats.) i was just wondering if some of the people in the roof top seats would have an even more obstructed view.

by Rhymenoceros on Nov 23, 2009 4:37 PM CST reply actions  

We might not know that until opening day...

But judging by the way they have configured those boards, they look to be trying to minimize the damage to the rooftops which the Cubs have a financial agreement with now.

Remember, where that Horseshoe building is at, there is a big gap on Waveland between rooftop bleachers. I think a obstruction for that advertisement could be put up without affecting the rooftops too much.

by doc_blume on Nov 23, 2009 4:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep. Big gap - just over a 1/2 block.

You’ve got Kenmore St. just to the west of the Horseshoe bldg. Then to the east of the building , you’ve got the yard, a garage, and the alley before you come up to the next rooftop bldg (the huge one on the NW corner of Waveland & Sheffield).

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 23, 2009 4:53 PM CST up reply actions  

And that rooftop at the corner of waveland and sheffield...

Well, I was actually surprised they put bleachers on that rooftop a couple years ago. I’d think the view from there is quite obstructed already. Has anyone here been up there? I’m curious to know what the view is like.

by doc_blume on Nov 23, 2009 5:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I haven't been up there, but...

… I can tell you that they wouldn’t have put those up there if you couldn’t see. Same thing for the bleachers on the corner building on Addison & Sheffield. You’d think you couldn’t see from there, either, but there’s just enough space between the upper & lower decks so you can see the infield from there.

The Waveland & Sheffield bleachers are high enough that you can see most of the field.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2009 5:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Bravo Cubs

The absolute right move to block the view of the Horseshoe Casino sign. The Cubs need to stand up to greedy bastards who are intent on profiting at the ballclub’s expense.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Nov 23, 2009 5:44 PM CST reply actions  

Sorry - hit post by mistake.

My question was: how is that “at the ballclub’s expense”? It doesn’t cost the team anything to have that sign there. They’re hoping to share in his profits, which is something different.

by Orval Overall on Nov 23, 2009 5:46 PM CST up reply actions  

It may very well cost them.

What the owner of that rooftop does directly affects the market for all advertising space in the area, including that inside Wrigley.

Theoretically, that building is decreasing supply and in no way increasing demand, thus driving down the price. Now i fully realize that in this case i’m sure the Cubs aren’t suffering at the hands of the competition, but you have to believe the team is thinking in these greater schemes as well.

Does anybody know if they get a share of what takes place on the building across Sheffield that is usually displaying some sort of Miller Light ad, often tailored to the series taking place at that time?

I’m sure the cubs don’t want ads to start popping up everywhere around the stadium with the direct intent of siphoning eyeballs away from their own advertising space.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 23, 2009 7:47 PM CST up reply actions  

That's a really good question.

I suspect the Cubs DO have a deal with that building — or you’d see a similar construction of boards on the Sheffield side.

I’m guessing this has more to do with Tom Gramatis and his attitude than anything else.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 23, 2009 8:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't be so sure the Cubs wouldn't suffer

Those are valid points you mention and likely the direction the Cubs were/are thinking.

It’ll come down to how much settlement there is between Gramatis and the Cubs on that $8.5M building.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Nov 24, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

The kicker to all of this is that...

… in the early 1980’s, the Cubs could have bought every one of those buildings for around $1 million. They could have been pocketing all the rooftop money all these years..

A friend of mine was offered one of the buildings in the late 1970’s for $38,000. He couldn’t afford it at the time. That building (one of the bldgs. on Sheffield) would now sell for probably $5-$6 million.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 24, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

$$$$$

would you say the building now is worth a little less than it was before the billboards?

"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." --Mark Twain

by cooliogirl47 on Nov 24, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I mean the bleacher signs

"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." --Mark Twain

by cooliogirl47 on Nov 24, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

It depends on whether Gramatis is willing to make a deal with the Cubs.

Right now I don’t think he has a lot of choice.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 24, 2009 8:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Could'a, should'a

If that had occurred, my guess is it would have resulted in the expansion of the ballpark & parking after those buildings were torn down.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Nov 25, 2009 8:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Probably not...

… if Tribco had realized how much they could have made, not only from renting the apartments, but from the rooftop businesses being their own.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 25, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Yup,

and they need to maximize the revenue they take from Wrigley. And if you’re a fan, you should want them to do stuff like this too, assuming it means they’ll put that money back into the ballclub.

by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Nov 23, 2009 6:10 PM CST up reply actions  

FWIW: Paul Sullivan writes "Wrigley Field signboards likely would not be subject to landmark review"

Sir Linkalot

Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

by eths on Nov 24, 2009 2:00 AM CST reply actions  

Right, but...

… the landmark guy got it wrong:

“We looked at the landmark ordinance and don’t think it would be covered,” said Jim Peters, president of Landmark Illinois, the Chicago-based historic preservation advocacy group. “The chain-link fence is listed as a ‘non-contributing element’ (to Wrigley’s landmark status.)”

There is no “chain-link fence” at the back of the bleachers any more. It was removed during the reconstruction. Look at the photos above — there’s a railing at the back of the bleachers; what looks like “chain-link fencing” really isn’t. That structure was built in 2005-06; none of that was part of the landmark designation.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 24, 2009 8:03 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm guessing the chain-link fence is still in the landmark ordinance document...

…simply because the chain-link fence existed when that document was created. And since it was deemed to be a non-contributing element at that time, no one saw a need to update the document when reconstruction took place.

So Sullivan calls this guy to ask about the Landmark ordinance, and the guy probably just pulled up a copy and read directly from it.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 24, 2009 9:06 AM CST up reply actions  

I'll go out on a limb right now...

It won’t be there opening day.

This is about the Cubs getting money from Horseshoe for their “free” advertising everytime a camera shows their bill board on TV.

In the past, ads outside the ballpark were from sponsors of the Cubs already.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Nov 24, 2009 10:30 AM CST reply actions  

Agreed.

Just a thought, let’s direct our energy to the team that is playing ON the field on Opening Day. I wish advertising wasn’t necessary. But the bottom line is, it is necessary. We live in 2009, not 1969. When we win the World Series, I doubt anyone will be saying, “Damn, we won it all, if only we didn’t have all this advertising in the ballpark this would really be great.” And if anyone actually did say that, they should be thrown over the left field fence onto Waveland, never to return.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Nov 24, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions  

No, it probably wouldn't.

I’m not sure why that’s a problem. This is an issue that Cubs fans are interested in. Why shouldn’t we talk about it?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 24, 2009 8:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Freddie Bynum concurs

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Nov 25, 2009 10:12 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Then again, Wrigley...

is like no other ballpark.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Nov 27, 2009 7:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Horseshoe Casino Responds To Cubs Billboard Shenanigans
Earlier this week, we talked about the Cubs erecting a pair of billboards that would block the view of a rooftop on Waveland emblazoned with an ad for the Horseshoe Casino. Most fans remember the rooftop from previous years when it was painted red and featured the Budweiser logo on it. It seems the new chairman for the Cubs, Tom Ricketts wasn’t pleased and Cubs spokesman Peter Chase said the team was: “looking to protect our corporate partner family who invest their resources with us to be our official sponsors. It’s important that we protect our brand in the marketplace, protect the value of our corporate partners and protect against anyone trying to ambush our brand.” Which seems to be a not-so-subtle way of saying, “We’re trying to protect Budweiser.” The team never had an issue with the large Budweiser rooftop sign, the bleachers at Wrigley are officially sponsored by Bud Light, and, well, we all know what kind of man Harry Caray was. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. But what company is expected to become advertisers on the new billboards? According to CBS 2, Budweiser.

So what of the casino itself, who bought the rights to the rooftop in question from that building’s owner? We were contacted yesterday by a rep from the casino’s PR team with a statement that said:

"2009 was a milestone year at the Horseshoe Casino," said Dan Nita, Senior Vice President and General Manager. "We were very excited to showcase our $500 million new casino and entertainment offering to the Chicagoland market. An opportunity arose to become part of the Wrigleyville experience, securing the famous rooftop in left field. In addition, we became a corporate sponsor of the Cubs organization, with a substantial six-figure investment."

Mr. Nita also adds: “Corporate sponsorships with sports teams have been a great way to introduce ourselves to a market. Harrah’s Entertainment Inc., which operates Horseshoe Casino, maintains a long-standing history with many Major League Baseball teams and we hope to continue our partnerships with Chicago sports organizations into the 2010 season and beyond.”

While it doesn’t say much, the fact the casino is a corporate sponsor of the team does raise eyebrows. If the casino wasn’t a sponsor of the team, it’d be just another case of the Cubs playing hardball about someone advertising in view of the stadium without the team getting any money from it. But it seems the Cubs aren’t that concerned about protecting “the value of our corporate partners,” and are, instead, concerned about pissing off an even bigger sponsor. Some follow-up questions for the casino’s PR folks will have to wait as they’re closed through Monday for the holiday. The same, it seems, goes for the Cubs.

Sir Linksalot

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 25, 2009 12:39 PM CST reply actions  

Horseshoe a corp sponser?

 Why would they treat casino guys any different than budweiser guys? I’m confused, that puts a whole new light on alot of things.

"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." --Mark Twain

by cooliogirl47 on Nov 25, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Means, to me, that the beef is with the building's owner, and not the advertiser.

Not sure how seriously i’m taking this part:

But what company is expected to become advertisers on the new billboards? According to CBS 2, Budweiser.

But it is a departure from the “temporary” idea we’ve been trumpeting.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Nov 25, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I think the Cubs ARE going to put advertising there.

But those boards are likely temporary — the original article at cubs.com even called them a “placeholder”.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 25, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

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