What to do with Marshall?
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Nov 25, 2009 8:42 AM CST
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With all the talk about need of bullpen help, what do you all expect to do with Marshall. Will he be in contention for the 5th starting job again, or be strickly middle/long relief.
As I see it, we have Marmol closing, Garbow and Guzman setting up. That leaves Marshall, maybe Spellcheck, Patton, Berg, Atkins. Who are going to be our long relief guys? With the addition of Parker and Gaub to the 40, it is possible that they could make the 25 given great spring training. If Gaub becomes the LOOGY that we were all saying we needed before the start of last season, that gives us 3 lefties in the pen.
Given that he has done well in the relief role, is he trade bait? What says BCB.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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I'd rather see him as a 5th starter
or traded for help.
And I also don’t want Spellcheck in any serious discussion about the pitching staff.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Yeah, this pretty much sums it up.
As of right now, Marshall, Da Gorz and the Shark will be duking it out for the fifth spot in the rotation. I’d give Sean the edge because of his experience level. But I wouldn’t count out Gorzelanny, who looked pretty good at times this past season. Samardzija will have to really, really throw lights-out to have much of shot, I’d think.
And, of course, all this could be up-ended if Marshall is dealt, which is entirely possible. He and Da Gorz are somewhat redundant in terms of skill sets, though I think Gorzelanny’s splits make him a better candidate to be a pure LOOGY.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
I think Gorz has the inside track, actually
I may be wrong but it’s just the feeling I’m getting. And you know what? I would prefer Gorz as #5 over Marshall. I think Marshall is a mediocre starter, and I think he would benefit our team greatly being a guy out of the pen who could face a lefty and face a righty or two to get to face another lefty, so we don’t have to use a righty in between. I think that is the ideal situation for Marshall.
by Mulhollandmania on Nov 29, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
Marshall would be better as trade bait
than as a starter.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 28, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
+ 1000
Marsh is a great young arm, and the Shark might really become one. Gorze was a good acquisition .. but I think Marsh is going to be the odds on favorite for the 5 spot.
Which means he’s the best commodity the Cubs can offer in a trade.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Nov 28, 2009 11:26 PM CST up reply actions
Saw Marshall at the gym
was very surprised to see him there- talked to him for a little bit- he’s doing some training in Chicago for part of the offseason. Nice, laid back ,friendly guy.
I hope he gets a shot at the 5th spot- I think he has upside at a starter if he gets a chance.
I would agree with him being a good guy
My brother played ball with him at VCU, and they talk occasionally. My brother always claimed that Sean’s twin brother, Brian, was the better pitcher. In college, Sean would start, and then Brian would come in to close. Brian blew out his arm while playing in the Red Sox organization.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Nov 25, 2009 9:29 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry to hear that about Sean's brother, Brian.
I recall hearing that Sean had a twin brother pitching for another organization and have wondered what became of him.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
blow his arm out?
…how does that happen….from pitching too hard, too early, too much?
"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." --Mark Twain
by cooliogirl47 on Nov 25, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
My brother told me he used to throw out of multiple arm slots
So he would have 2-3 different curve balls (over the top, 3/4 and side arm). Doing that puts a lot of stress on the arm. I’m sure that contributed.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Nov 30, 2009 8:44 AM CST up reply actions
+1
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Nov 25, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
That's OK with me...
… as long as we get value in return. Marshall has good trade value, IMO.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Especially if it is a team in a rebuilding phase
I believe that he can eat innings with a decent ERA (4-4.5 range) as a starter.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Nov 25, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
Jake Peavy!
or ADAM LIND!
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
Yeah, I think this is entirely possible...
…especially in light of the Grabow deal.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Marshall has potential to be a 4-5 starter somewhere
Whether it’s with the Cubs or not, I’m not sure. I imagine he’ll be with the Cubs for another year. I’d think that with the addition of Grabow, Marshall moves into a long relief role. If Gaub makes the team, Marshall will probably be traded and Spell Check moves into that long relief role. I do like Marshall and expected him to have a big year last year.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Baltimore?
The Orioles need serious pitching help, and if there’s something we could leverage out of the O’s by trading them Marshall, I’d say do it.
There’s a part of me that would like to see Marshall stay with the Cubs and develop as a starter, but I think that’s increasingly unlikely.
by allyngibson on Nov 25, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
MARSHALL FOR PIE!!!!!!
(sarcasm)
Not a bad idea, but I’m not sure Baltimore has what we need right now. Yes, there’s that 2B who has some talent….can’t remember his name at the moment…hmm….but he is not going to be traded. Angelos loves him too much.
If you can come up with a realistic trade option, I’m all for it. Roberts is the only guy I think the Cubs would want on that roster. I will admit that I’m not expert on the Orioles though
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Nov 25, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
Who is this Roberts you speak of?
Do the Cubs know about him? I wish BCB would discuss this more.
:)
PV4EVER!
by CubsWin!Oregon on Nov 25, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
Die
Please :)
And if you could not make a big mess of it, I’d appreciate it
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Nov 25, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
Sean Marshall is a decent swingman
That is the role he seems to have backed into. In my view he isn’t good enough to hold down a spot in a starting rotation. Nor is he set-up man or closer material. But he can still be immensely valuable to the bullpen.
"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)
You obviously haven't seen the back end of the Nats' rotation.
Or the Mets. Or the ’Stros.
I think we should trade him to a team that values him as a potential 5th starter before Lou buries him forever.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Nov 25, 2009 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
Had Lou not buried Scott Eyre, the Cubs might have gotten more than minor league filler for him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Marshall is more valuable to the Cubs in a swingman role than he is as trade bait
The Cubs have pitching uncertainty all over the place. Marshall provides a measure of insurance for the back end of the rotation and in the pen.
What happens if Lilly is less than ready to come back, or never gets to 100% at his advancing age? Lilly was only a 6 inning pitcher to begin with, and now he has had surgery and is on the wrong end of his 30’s.
What happens if Randy Wells turns back into a pumpkin?
Who fills the rotation void left by Rich Harden?
What happens if Carlos Zambrano NEVER grows up and he is what he is?
What happens if Ryan Dempster morphs completely into Jeff Suppan?
What happens if Carlos Marmol can’t close? Or nobody else steps up to fill the multitude of job openings in the pen?
))_))
Conclusion? Marshall is needed.
"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)
I've always thought Marshall should be traded,
but you make a pretty good case here for keeping him.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." ~Winston Churchill
Actually, he makes a pretty good case for being Debbie Downer.
Marshall has trade value. If you can get value in return, do it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
what kind of retrun do you see for him?
I would move anyone for the right deal, since i have no problem blowing up the farm for a WS.
I like Marshall, and believe he is a good piece of our puzzle, but i do not see him netting much in a trade, since he is also not top tier.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
If you can get value in return
There’s the rub. To me, that value has to fill a void or strengthen a weakness, not just be roster filler of comparable market value. As we saw last year, what happens if your vulnerabilities are exposed? Marshall may be superfluous, but he’s good insurance.
Ultimately, though, if he’s kept, his value to us is determined by Lou’s use of him, which has been…interesting at times.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." ~Winston Churchill
Well, that's why I think he should be traded...
… because the manager simply won’t make the best use out of him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Nov 26, 2009 9:10 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
Another way of saying – he’ll be worth more to us by trading him than he is to us on the 25-man roster because he’ll be worth more to other teams on their 25-man roster.
Is he traded yet?
So you feel great about the Cub pitching situation?
And you think the Cubs have the luxury of moving Sean Marshall, even though his trade value is likely nominal at best? I guess that sort of makes sense given that you’re the same person who suggests Marlon Byrd, Mike Cameron and Chad Tracy are wondrous answers to propel us to the playoffs.
"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)
Did you even read the Marlon Byrd post?
You don’t even have to click on the link to see this much:
His 2009 season appears to be an outlier in terms of power (his 43 doubles tied for 8th in the AL) and these are just the types of numbers that Jim Hendry often gets sucked into giving a three-year backloaded contract to. I’d stay away from Byrd.
Doesn’t sound like he thinks Byrd is a “wondrous answer.” Try again.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." ~Winston Churchill
Jake Fox is valuable to the Cubs in a utility role
What happens if Aramis Ramirez reinures his arm in a chicken fight, nearly being pecked to death? Fox provides a measure of insurance for 3B.
What happens if BLou was right and Derrek Lee really is in decline and the past five months were just a fluke?
What happens if Milton Bradley after being traded shows up in Chicago and gets in a fight with Lou? Who will be our backup manager if not Fox?
What happens if we trade for Curtis Granderson and then he is abducted by aliens?
What happens if Alfonso Soriano decides his true calling is to be a WWE sports-entertainer and just walks away from baseball?
What happens if Geovany Soto turns out to be an international spy and is deported? I don’t have any hard evidence for such a claim but how else do you explain his sophomore slump?
Conclusion? Fox is needed – even though we aren’t going to compete anyway and will find Fox (and Marshall’s) trade value lower next off-season than this one.
Is he traded yet?
by DGU on Nov 25, 2009 7:54 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
What would it cost to set up the Bradley-fights-with-Piniella scenario?
And does MB count as an alien (space)?
"how else do you explain his sophomore slump?"
Uh, weed. And, perhaps also the munchies that go with it.
by Orval Overall on Nov 29, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
No way. It's definitely repressed guilt for being an international spy.
He doesn’t know how to handle the mixed emotions he has about his treason – not that I have proof of these allegations, but, you know, you just have to look at a picture of him to know it can’t be anything else"
Is he traded yet?
"Pay, Mr. Zambrano?
No, I expect you to die…"
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." ~Winston Churchill
"and I'm a perfectionist"
hah
1 Aaron down, 1 to go
by jesus christos on Nov 29, 2009 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
What difference does it make?
You name several potential problems that Marshall could help solve.
The only problem with your theory is that Lou will continue to use Marshall as a situational lefty no matter how many problems there are. Lou would use Al as a SP before he would use Marshall.
Hendry should trade him before the rest of the league forgets what a nice job Marshall did as the 5th starter in 2007.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
For each of your "what happens if ..." scenarios,
if the answer is Marshall, you still have a problem.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Nov 29, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
a durable, inexpensive lefty
who can spot start and throw from the pen. we also learned he can play LF a little. no reason to move him IMO
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I like Marshall a good deal and won't be glad to see him go if he's traded.
But he hasn’t shown himself to be durable. Besides his injury history, we saw this season that he can’t move from the ‘pen to pitching any more than 3 IP. So, he’s not really a good spot starter. He’s got potential as a starter and he’ll be good as a reliever – but the question is whether his value in trade is higher than his value to us – and it very well might be.
Is he traded yet?
Really dont think we move him unless its part
of something bigger. He is young cheap and can do a lot of good. Also another reason he could have probably done what Grabow did while being more effective
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
Think about.....
how good Marshall really could be as a starter if he could get over his first inning issues….
by jballgame on Nov 26, 2009 10:32 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
+1
I remember watching his first start. I was really excited for him. It was against the Cards, and I think he gave up a first inning 2 run HR to Rolin after walking Pujols. After that, he threw something like 3 or 4 straight innings without giving up very much after that.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Nov 30, 2009 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
I think Marshall would be a pretty good starter by now
Had he be given consistent roles as a starter. In 2006 he didn’t have the greatest year but as a rookie he turned some heads. I believe that he could have done an equal job as Marquis did in 2007 and 2008.
Maybe this is the year he breaks out as a starter. There are open spots and it’s his to hopefully taken.
bullpen
guy no doubt. pitches good for about 4 or 5 innings and then gets raked. i dont think he gets a lot of run support when he starts either.
You may want to rethink the first part.
He would have had a much better career record given better run support. The guy has 24 quality starts with only 59 total starts. That is just over 40% of the time.
I would love to have a #5 go out there, and put up 6+ innings with 3 or less earned runs two out of ever 5 games he pitches.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Nov 30, 2009 9:11 AM CST up reply actions
Actually he got like no run support as well
In 2007 and 2008 more specifically so NOMAR is 100% correct.
His best pitching was ruined by the team scoring only 1 run.
I wasn't arguing that
I was saying the first part (4-5 innings and then blowing up) being the wrong statement.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Dec 1, 2009 8:34 AM CST up reply actions
Bizarre how Lou gets raked over the coals by some
Sean Marshall has NEVER demonstrated the ability to be a reliable starting pitcher. Yet Lou gets bashed to no end for robbing Marshall of opportunity and mis-using the kid, even though it is crystal clear his highest and best use is as a swingman type. WHICH is precisely the way Lou has used him.
"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)
Were you a Cubs fan in 2007?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
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