Theriot, Castro, and the Future Middle Infield
Article tells us (among several other things):
1) Theriot has been told to prepare for a move to 2B.
2) Castro could break camp with the Cubs this year.
3) It's "believed" Castro is untouchable in trade negotiations.
about 2 years ago
DGU
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When the time comes...
A middle infield of Castro (SS) and Theriot (2B) is pretty good, assuming Castro lives up to expectations. I’d certainly take it.
Out of curiousity, how certain are they of Castro’s age? (He’s coming from the Dominican right?) Not that it would change anything one way or the other in terms of performance, but I was wondering if they’ve figured out a system to better guarentee prospects’ backgrounds after all those issues in the past.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Nov 27, 2009 12:58 AM CST reply actions
Haven't heard anything to suggest he isn't that age
Although, I guess, you never know.
I hadn't heard anything either.
Was just wondering, given how many players from down there have had their ages “adjusted.” One would assume the league has gotten better at figuring that stuff out, but you never know.
As for Castro…I’m with you about not rushing him up. The long term payoff of being patient and sure of his readiness is far greater than any short-term benefit of bringing him up. No sense in rushing him into something he’s not ready for.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Nov 27, 2009 1:40 AM CST up reply actions
Theriot at second
Most teams prefer a little more power at second than Theriot would provide. His bat is good for SS, not so much for 2nd.
Yeah
I have concerns about the way that Hendry is talking about Theriot wanting to stay with the Cubs. We are loaded with talent up the middle in the farm. In the upcoming years, Theriot at 4-8 M a year will offer much less per dollar than the guys who are coming up. I continue to question why you would play Theriot over Baker at 2B this year.
Is he traded yet?
I would support a Castro-Baker middle infield with Theriot backing it up
Theriot’s bat is just not enough for full time duty at second base.
I don't have that same quantity of love for Baker
Career high is 104 games and 299 AB, still well short of a full Major League season, and he’ll be 29 next year. That is kind of a shallow experience base to hand him 2B as a full-time role.
Sure, he's uncertain
but why settle for a .340 OBP and no power, when you could easily get the same OBP and power from Baker?
Is he traded yet?
Agreed, but the small sample problem bothers me
How does Baker hold up if he has to play 140+ games with 600 PA? That would be new world for him.
then he would probably be the same as theriot
good in the beginning and middle, then burn out, but with more power
1 Aaron down, 1 to go
by jesus christos on Nov 28, 2009 11:19 PM CST up reply actions
I don't doubt that.
It’s funny how the game has changed though that 2B is now a position where power is even part of the equation.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Nov 27, 2009 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
still would rather he get most of the year in the minors
that said, the article jives with the rumors that have been out there for awhile, that Castro could be with the big league squad sooner than later and that he is basically untouchable. I think it also suggests another thing that’s been rumored, and that is, outside of a potential MB trade netting a 2nd baseman, that the Cubs probably won’t pay heavy attention to the MI, unless someone falls into their lap. I find it interesting that it suggests that Jaramillo will have a big say in whether or not Castro breaks camp.
With rumors that the pen is set (Wittenmeyer’s comments the other day after the Grabow signing; not that I feel all that comfortable about Guzman/Grabow/Marmol in the back end), it looks like the Cubs are freed up to make a hard push for a CF (along with dumping Bradley).
by toonsterwu on Nov 27, 2009 1:12 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I agree
It looks like the Cubs will not likely be pursuing free agent 2B, although I think Hendry will keep his eye on non-tenders (Kelly Johnson?). How does this mesh with the Castillo rumors? Would the Cubs be alright with Castillo in a part-time or even bench role?
The suggestion that Jaramillo would decide if Castro is ready strikes me almost as a passing of the buck. They don’t want to be seen as rushing Castro, so… on the other hand, you could see it as wanting to include Jaramillo, the new guy.
Is he traded yet?
I think
the reason that they are putting the emphasis on Jaramillo is because there really isn’t any severe concerns with his fielding. Some cleaning out to do, but no one really expects him, as of now, to have serious defensive concerns, and as such, placing the onus on offense makes sense.
I still say that Castillo isn’t a bad acquisition. I haven’t taken a look at the numbers to figure out if Castillo’s defensive problems would be enough of a hindrance, but I still think he’d be a decent top of the order bat and I simply do not like the idea of Fukudome/Theriot at the top of the order.
Remember that Rudy has experience
breaking in a very young SS — Elvis Andrus — though the Cubs don’t have a Vizquel to help. They do have Alan Trammell.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
I was thinking of Trammell being a counterpart to Ron Washington.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
I hope he doesn't make camp with the big league team
Comparing him to Beckham and Longoria is wrong because they were out of college. Unless the Cubs think Castro is another A-Rod, he should be in the minors until September. His fielding still needs work regardless of the bat.
Bruce Miles confirms Castro not available
Even though you’ve read suggestions that the Cubs should trade shortstop prospect Starling Castro to the Tigers for outfielder Curtis Granderson, it simply is not going to happen. The Cubs appear to have a bona fide blue-chip prospect at a position other than pitcher, and they are not trading him for Granderson or anybody else.
Is he traded yet?
If Castro's on the roster before September...
we’ve got problems. He had a nice run in Fall ball. But I wanna see the kid bust his butt at DoubleA next summer. He’s 19! I know he has talent and natural ability, but does he have a work ethic? Lets not crown the kid just yet. I’m just getting over the nasty aftertaste of Pie/Patterson.
"Anyone on our team that thinks we are cursed will be moved to a lesser-cursed team"
-Tom Ricketts
It's hard to not think of those guys...
… and not want someone else to fail like they did. I’d agree that we have to be cautious with Castro. Going back in time, you’ve also got the failure of Gary Scott, who might have become a decent major league player if he hadn’t been force-fed to the majors at age 22, having played only 35 games above A ball.
That’s almost exactly as much experience as Castro has right now. Give him another full year in the minor leagues even if he hits .450 in spring training.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
on work ethic
the reports have always been quite high on Castro. He actually wasn’t the most talented Latin American intriguing MI talent that we had entering the year – Junior Lake has more power potential and, overall, might be more toolsy. All the early reports so far suggest a hard worker who listens to his coaches and works at his game.
Not sure how you can be certain of that.
Castro being up before September doesn’t mean we’re in trouble – nor is it necessarily the worst thing for his development.
In general, I’d rather see him get at least another half year, but I don’t know the kid specifically. None of us do.
Is he traded yet?
Sure, if he is really ready put him in
But it would probably be good for him to spend at least a little time in Des Moines first.
Can someone...
give me a quick overview on Castro? I’m excited that we have a hitting prospect this highly regarded; I’d like to know more about him. I don’t know much about most of the minor leaguers. I’ve obviously hear this kid’s name a lot this offseason, but I don’t remember him being too talked about until this point. What’s so great about him? Quick scouting report, anyone?
He's good.
That’s all I know. I’m with you though, I don’t really follow the minors all that much and it seems odd how much the Castro talk has blown up this winter. Maybe I just wasn’t paying attention enough before.
Castro
potential solid defensive player, with a plus arm. Moves well laterally. Side arms the ball a bit, but it isn’t a gigantic issue. He had errors in Daytona, but part of that was due to the field there. The ability is there to be real solid, perhaps even a plus defender.
He’s about 15-20 pounds heavier than his listed weight, around 180 right now. Most expectations are that he can probably add 10-15 more pounds without really hindering his defensive ability. The added weight could help offensively. Right now, he’s a good contact bat with little power, but with his wrists and balance, there is expectation of power. He isn’t a hacker at the plate – despite needing work on discipline, his balance allows him to square up on a lot of pitches. When I saw him this year, the thing that stood out was the fact that, even though he was reaching for pitches at times, as all young players will do, he was never off-balance.
Some reports have pegged him at plus speed. I’m not real sure that it is truly “plus” and not just “good”, but I’ve never really taken the time to focus in on that. That said, as he adds weight, he’ll likely lose some of that speed.
The potential is there to be an elite shortstop. That said, one thing people need to keep in mind – even if he doesn’t reach his high ceiling, he’s still an intriguing talent. A potential solid glove, contact bat at shortstop is an interesting asset.
Biggest problems? Defensive consistency, but that isn’t a big issue, imo. Actually, the one issue I have is with discipline, but on a positive note, this isn’t a discipline issue of Vitterian proportions. I mean, there’s enough there to think that, with time and experience, his discipline will improve enough.
The complete package of what he is now … and what he can become, is why he’s storming up the minor league charts, with some folks suggesting him as a top 30, if not, top 25 prospect. One other point to make – while I would prefer to see him stay in the minors a bit longer, what he is now is probably the reason why the Cubs are willing to ponder moving him up. Short of it is, the discipline isn’t bad – it’s just not good, but he has a good track record as a hard worker and good student. If you aren’t worried about the glove, and you believe that he will learn, then it’s something to ponder as the power will only come as he matures and adds weight, and the power is the only issue that stands out right now.
by toonsterwu on Nov 27, 2009 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Good grief
People need to give this Starlin Castro thing a rest. He isn’t going to be ready for the big leagues in 2010, and to suggest otherwise, or worse still to rush him, is dumb.
Let him continue his developmental course. In the meantime Diamond Jim Hendry needs to find some suitable middle infield parts for the interim.
"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)
by BLou on Nov 27, 2009 2:23 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Yes, when it comes to the infamous Cub minor league system
This organization’s history is littered with highly touted flops. I won’t jump on the Starlin Castro bandwagon until he is closer to legitimately competing for a major league role. If you chose to partake in the insane overhyping that was also associated with Felix Pie, Corey Patterson, Lance Dickson, Gary Scott, et al…then go for it. I will wait on Castro.
"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)
fair enough
although most of those guys were never as highly touted as castro is right now (of them, I think only CPatt was at one time a top 30 prospect). Most of those guys were maybe touted by Cubs fans more than they were by national types.
Here’s the thing that everyone’s missing, including yourself. While I think he should get more time in the minors, his ability is close enough to compete for a major league role right now, at that position. Again, we’re talking shortstop where you don’t need much offense. If you think the glove is solid enough, and most don’t anticipate big issues with his glove, then he has enough ability to be a league average shortstop right now.
Again, I’d rather see him spend more time in the minors, but the argument that he isn’t ready for the bigs isn’t exactly accurate. The better argument is that he could be better prepared for the bigs with more time in the minors. By most accounts, this isn’t a Ronny Cedeno case either – Castro’s been noted as a good student, hard worker, whereas some sources (AzPhil) have suggested in the past that Cedeno was a bit bullish on his own physical capabilities.
You're being far too reasonable.
BLou doesn’t really respond to “reasonable”.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Gary Scott? Lance Dickson?
What happened nearly 20 years ago impacts the current organization? The Pirates and Orioles used to be good too. I guess they’ll be contending again this year.
On second thought, I guess you might be right, there was SS Andre Rodgers too. Cubs will never develop another good player. Of course, we can’t count Soto either since he was a PED user.
I was waiting
for the one negative, cold water tossing on this prospect.
Geez the Cubs may finally have something here and only you can throw the negative light on this.
I think the Cubs will be patient, however if he is ripping AAA ball and has made improvements in the field why keep in Iowa?
I am on the bandwagon.
this isn't joe schmoe suggesting it
it’s the Cubs FO that’s suggesting it.
So if you think we need interim middle IFs
tell me the SS and 2B you would get on just an interim basis who would be better than Theriot-Baker.
Is he traded yet?
no
jeter and jeter is
1 Aaron down, 1 to go
by jesus christos on Nov 28, 2009 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
sorry
but theriot is a big part of this team. i dont understand all the dislike for theriot. does a good job and is a very good hitter. im sure there is room for him and castro
by NOMAR on Nov 28, 2009 8:56 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Someone
And I can’t remember who (sorry), but some baseball writer recently wrote that he doesn’t get the hype on Castro as he says he has little range, is slow and has no power. Just what one wants in a SS.
The last “untouchable” prospect we had was Pie and basically the Cubs received Heilman for him. Of course I’m willing to wait on the kid because what other option do I have but count me also in on selling high which might be right now.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Nov 28, 2009 5:02 PM CST reply actions
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