Not a rumor, Bruce Miles speculates on a Bradley trade with good return

I didn't want to put this in the title, but Bruce Miles speculates on a possible Bradley+Prospects for Halladay at this link. So, some won't believe this is even possible because it's Halladay (whose $$$ price tag alone may easily be a budget buster). But do you think a deal like this is the way for Hendry to go - not to eat the $$$, but to give up prospects to incline a team like the Jays to eat the contract?

over 2 years ago DGU 38 comments 0 recs |

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I don't see it having legs...

Toronto management will pretty much burn their bridge with fans if they trade Halladay, especially since with Rios leaving, they can afford to keep him.

They should move Roy, and start rebuilding. Don’t think they will though.

by Damen Jackson on Nov 9, 2009 8:28 AM CST reply actions

I'm more interested in talking through the general strategy than in getting distracted on Halladay in particular.

Would you rather the Cubs eat salary and inhibit their chances to win in 2010 or give up prospects and potentially inhibit their chances to win in the future. I think Halladay is good enough that if you can, you give up the prospects it takes to get him. But what if the rumor was for Javy Vazquez or someone similar?

Is he traded yet?

by DGU on Nov 9, 2009 8:35 AM CST up reply actions

I see...

Well, I can’t help but feel like you’re retracing covered ground here, but I don’t look for major trades this year, barring a strong run next season that dictates a move at the deadline.

I don’t know how many ways that Ricketts can say it, but the Cubs are effectively broke, and happy to let Hendry and Piniella go through 2010 with the team that they’ve been building the last few seasons anyway. And frankly, I wouldn’t be surprised if they but a “check with me” on for trading some of the team’s better prospects for now. So, I don’t think they’ll let the team take on salary at this point, so he’ll need to try for a useful return at roughly equal or lesser AAV.

by Damen Jackson on Nov 9, 2009 8:47 AM CST up reply actions

When it comes to MB

we’re all retracing covered ground. Hopefully it gets done at the meetings.

Is he traded yet?

by DGU on Nov 9, 2009 9:23 AM CST up reply actions

this is the first trade idea that perked my interest

If the Rickets are actually here to win they will need to make some early investments to bring this club to the top echelon as a on field product sense.

Halladay is an interesting target. Ironically there was another blip on the rumor circuit about Soto. Cubs could be looking at moving Soto who’s value is still high being cheap, especially with Wellington developing and K Hill making the platoon grade. Thus the question will be the other prospects. My guess is that this could be pitching in that the Cubs are still strong. A possible structure of a deal could be something that made the rumor circuit involving Peavy last year.

Let’s speculate…MB, Soto, current starting pitching (end of the rotation grade—Marshall), Cashner and possibly Jackson or another.

What would Halladay offer? What the Cubs have needed since ‘03 a genuine top of the rotation starting pitcher. Z is good but really is a #2. Lilly and Demp are good also, but they are both #3’s. Put Halladay in the Ace spot and you have a genuine rotation, much better than a Harden. Wells can fill out a strong rotation.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Nov 9, 2009 8:52 PM CST up reply actions

What the Cubs have needed since ‘03 a genuine top of the rotation starting pitcher.

i hear this mark prior guys a free agent..

"hey

by jesus christos on Nov 9, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions

Actually the Toronto GM said yesterday

they are most likely to trade Halliday. I am not saying it would be a deal like this but I think he will be gone by Opening Day.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Nov 9, 2009 9:09 AM CST up reply actions

I think Halladay will be gone as well

Anthoupoulous has more of a free pass to make the move, as he doesn’t have the failure burden that Ricciardi had. He even has more of a free reign than Bill Smith had in trading Johan because the Blue Jays aren’t expected to compete with Halladay, and Anthoupoulous is the young gun they are grooming so he probably has at least 2 free years to try and tear down and rebuild (the farm system’s in really bad shape for Toronto as well).

Add in that Halladay’s value has declined since the trade deadline, and the fact that they aren’t likely to resign Roy, plus the fact that they have some decent pitching depth, and I think they pull the trigger. I wouldn’t be surprised if a Cliff Lee-type deal, something they passed on last year, or something similar to the Rich Harden deal that the Cubs made, got them to pull the trigger this offseason. They’ll hope for more, but it’s possible that

a) Boston steps to the sidelines. They might be working on a Beckett extension and the top levels of the system are a bit thin, so for them to make the deal might mean forking over guys like Casey Kelly and Ryan Westmoreland, something they weren’t willing to do during the year.

b) Yankees step aside. I think they’ll pursue another arm, but probably the FA variety, to protect their young assets.

A lot of other teams will likely get into it, but any GM always hopes for a Boston-New York bidding frenzy. I could see the Angels jump into it, particularly if Lackey leaves. Rangers could perhaps revisit. I still wonder about the Rockies. I really wonder if the Brewers might be able to jump into it. The Reds seem like a team that could be in it. I half-wondered about Minnesota (sort of a, see Joe, we are trying to win), but the Cuddyer option makes it that much harder for them financially. I think the Phillies will investigate this. Hamels loss of confidence late in the year (he actually wasn’t that bad this year) might weigh on them.

That said, who knows. Only time will tell.

by toonsterwu on Nov 9, 2009 9:27 AM CST up reply actions

I do think they should include prospects

Now, I don’t see Atlanta being willing to take Bradley. But if they were, let’s say you could deal Bradley for Kawakami straight up, or Bradley for Vazquez if you include, say, Chris Carpenter and Darwin Barney. I’d rather do the second deal.

The team is built to win now. You need somebody who will make you better in 2010.

Halladay is real stretch, though. The package would have to be something like Bradley, Vitters, Wells, and J. Jackson. Not sure even that would do it.

Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"

by cubzfan on Nov 9, 2009 8:46 AM CST reply actions

I'd do the second deal, too.

Vazquez is a K machine.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Nov 9, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions

I'd be sad to see Barney go...

given that he connects my beloved Oregon State Beavers to the Cubs. :( Sure it’s irrational from a business/baseball standpoint, but…

by CubsWin!Oregon on Nov 9, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions

no need for Wells, they had him already

Vitters might be a possible or Soto,

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Nov 9, 2009 8:59 PM CST up reply actions

i wouldn't read too much into them letting wells go

as a sign that they wouldn’t want him now. the wells that pitched last year was far better than the one they let go. They were also partially responsible for Wells critical development in the last year.

by toonsterwu on Nov 10, 2009 12:13 AM CST up reply actions

Im ok with adding pitching

Esp top of the line pitching but I would in NO way shape or form would support moving Castro. This team has been without a NATURALLY good shortstop for far to long. I would be more inclined to trade Vitters but then again I just hate shipping out players that look so promising.. I say team is already good on paper, a few tweaks and a good attitude would take this team a long way.

by Kchance on Nov 9, 2009 11:07 AM CST reply actions

small follow-up; nothing big

anyhow bruce confirmed it was his speculation but that he did ask the cubs about halladay and that they would probably take a look, but that it would be a longshot.

again, nothing really new or big there.

by toonsterwu on Nov 9, 2009 12:16 PM CST reply actions

The Cubs don't have...

the prospects to be legit players in the Halladay sweepstakes. Move on.

by kanderber on Nov 9, 2009 12:20 PM CST reply actions

that's not exactly true

our top 7 in the system can be very competitive with most systems. It’s a very well though of top 7 with a mix of arms and positional assets. There’s a few systems that could top us, but if we wanted to go all-in on Halladay, we could be competitive.

Furthermore, look at the recent history with top pitching deals. I don’t think the Blue Jays will get better offers than they did at midseason, and Halladay’s value has gone down. As noted above, it wouldn’t surprise me if the value of their best offers ended up being similar to what Philly gave up for Cliff Lee (something they turned down supposedly) or what we gave up for Harden.

by toonsterwu on Nov 9, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions

I won't pretend to be...

someone who’s up on the Cubs’ prospects. So my original post was probably made with some ignorance, admittedly. I just go off of what I hear.

That said, weren’t the BJ’s reportedly asking for Happ and Drabek from the Phillies? The Cubs don’t have anything near that, do they??

by kanderber on Nov 9, 2009 5:59 PM CST up reply actions

The Blue Jays

were reportedly asking for some combination of Drabek and one of their top OF’s and more, I think. Personally, I think Drabek is a bit overhyped. Even leaving that aside, the difference between a Drabek and a Cashner/Jay Jackson isn’t by all that much.

That said, the Phillies are one organization that has a better set of top level talent. Of course, the BJ’s can ask for it, but if no one offers it, then it doesn’t make a difference. And Halladay’s value has probably gone down.

by toonsterwu on Nov 10, 2009 12:17 AM CST up reply actions

It's precisely the fact that we do have the prospects

which makes this question so interesting. Do you believe the 2010 Cubs have a better chance at a championship of the 2012 Cubs?

Is he traded yet?

by DGU on Nov 9, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions

I'm inclinded to say yes to that latter question.

I hate to mortgage the future for the present, but I also think that trading some prospects now is not an action that necessarily precludes improving our system in the near/mid-term anyway. And I do think we have a limited window on winning.

We could theoretically make up a loss of prospects by being smarter in future arbitration, etc.. Especially since we have an glut of potential free-agents upcoming (including in this example, Halladay, right?)

by CubsWin!Oregon on Nov 9, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions

According to Toronto Star sports writer, Richard Griffin...

…here’s what he thinks the Blue Jays should be looking for in exchange for Halladay

The ideal package for Halladay would include a young mid-rotation starter with an upside, a top pitching prospect, a possible major-league shortstop and an outfield prospect.

Let’s see how that lines up with the Cubs:

Young starter: Start with Marshall, swap in Wells if we have to
Top pitching prospect: Carpenter – that way Toronto wouldn’t have to spend money on new jerseys
Possible major-league shortstop: The very definition of Ryan Theriot…
Outfield prospect: Colvin

Boy, this is fun. Tune in tomorrow folks, when I show how we can get Bonds and Griffey and it really won’t cost us that much…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 9, 2009 12:42 PM CST reply actions

Works for me.

I ♥ PV Halladay!

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Nov 9, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions

Hall-i-day...

Cel-e-brate…

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Nov 9, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions

This all doesn't sound very realistic.

But if you could do it, sure. GETI TDON EJIM!!!

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 9, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions

Is it worth taking on a little more payroll for a pitcher like Roy?

Uh, yes.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Nov 9, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions

The problem is Halladay is only under contract for 1 more year.

I’m not sure any team is going to give the Jays what they want. It doesn’t seem worth it unless a team gets to sign him to an extension before the trade. If that was possible, I suspect the Jays themselves would sign him. From what I’ve been reading over the last year, it seems Halladay wants to test the market in free agency.

The bottom line is JP Richardi screwed up; Halladay’s value was at the highest last July. I guess it’s the last act by Richardi to sink the francise even further behind.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Nov 9, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions

Yes JP blew it

But so will the new guy if he doesn’t trade him. Certainly they should be able to land more for him than a first round choice, even if it Halladay is only signed for one year.

If I was Anthoupoulous I would deal Halladay for NOTHING if the other team would also take Vernon Wells off their hands.

"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman

by BucknerKongCardenal on Nov 9, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions

While we are at it

Let"s get Halliday via trade .. Then Let’s get free agent Holliday .. Cubs problems are solved .. Bradley has to be involved with the trade

by CUBFANINAZ on Nov 9, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions

If I told you there was a third player named "Hulliday" would you want him, too?

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Nov 10, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions

depends - does he still have a good slapshot?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 10, 2009 3:58 PM CST up reply actions

This would be interesting...

…given the fact that Ricketts has stated his desire for the Cubs to have a strong farm system that is a constant feeder of talent to the major league club. To get Halladay, and be able to unload Bradley on Toronto, would likely drain the Cub’s current top prospects.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Nov 9, 2009 5:32 PM CST reply actions

However...

…. and it doesn’t seem like this deal will happen so it’s probably moot, isn’t one way of having your farm system get talent to your major league club, having it provide talent for major league trades?

Hee Seop Choi for Derrek Lee and Bobby Hill and others for Aramis Ramirez, perfect examples.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 10, 2009 7:43 AM CST up reply actions

I'd bet...

…this rumor never had any legs and was mostly fabricated by the media.

I’d bet, the only substantial contract the Cubs add in 2010, will be one they would have to take on to dump Bradley.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Nov 10, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions

I think you're probably correct about both of these bets.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 10, 2009 4:58 PM CST up reply actions

Look whats added

Good to great pitcher … good to great outfielder

by CUBFANINAZ on Nov 9, 2009 5:34 PM CST reply actions

But I agree

Owner is trying to keep payroll at about the same … would be a good starting rotation .. And heavy thunder in the middle of the batting order

by CUBFANINAZ on Nov 9, 2009 5:37 PM CST reply actions

To add a pitcher

like Halladay you would be foolish not to make an offer. You put him in the rotation and this team takes the lead in the Central.
I would give up, Bradley, Wells, Theriot, and Jay Jackson for him. SIgn Tejada to fill the Shortstop hole. The only issue I have with myself on this scenario is what to do at second. I still like O Dog, however this is my money not the owners.
I would love Halladay on this staff. I would not include Cashner or Castro.

by Grockcubs on Nov 10, 2009 8:14 AM CST reply actions