An argument for Mike Cameron

by Bradsbeard on Nov 9, 2009 3:36 PM CST

Food for thought:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bay-vs-cameron

To sum up, if the Cubs could sign a player who is theoretically more valuable per season than Jason Bay and has been comparable in value over the last 7 seasons to David Ortiz or Aramis Ramirez AND plays center field, should they sign him?

I'm not sure I want the extra strikeouts in an already K heavy lineup. Honestly, I'm not sure I'd want Bay if we had a place to play him. But I'd probably take him for one or two years if Soriano weren't in his way in left. So would you take Cameron for a one year deal to fill the void in center? I know this idea has some support around here already. Does this reasoning change anyone elses' thinking?

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Misleading

I have nothing against Cameron.

However, the statement

has been comparable in value over the last 7 seasons to David Ortiz or Aramis Ramirez AND plays center field,

is misleading and redundant.

Cameron’s “value” wouldn’t be anywhere near Ortiz or Aramis Ramirez’s if it weren’t for the fact that he plays CF.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Nov 9, 2009 3:42 PM CST reply actions

Third base gets the same positional adjustment as center field

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Nov 9, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions

Well, yeah

but that’s because Ortiz or Ramirez can’t play CF. Of course there’s value to him playing CF (and playing it quite well).

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett

by berselius on Nov 9, 2009 4:04 PM CST up reply actions

It does sound redundant...

Take away the statement “AND plays center field.” Now imagine we sign Jason Bay and play him in left. Even if we could just make Soriano and his contract disappear, signing Cameron and playing him in left field would, according to WAR, add more value to the Cubs than signing Bay and playing him in left.

So would you sign Cameron and play him in center if you could, transposing an equal amount of value that Bay could theoretically add at his strongest position in LF and putting it into the CF slot? That’s all I’m saying.

Before reading this article, I was skeptical that Cameron would improve the team all that much. After seeing the comparison to Bay, I’m a little bit more inclined to say go for it (assuming a one year deal).

Yet I’m still tempted to just say save the money and stick Fuld and Johnson out there…

by Bradsbeard on Nov 9, 2009 5:16 PM CST up reply actions

The rub

The rub is how much value does Cameron add over our other options at center or right field.

by Bradsbeard on Nov 9, 2009 5:18 PM CST up reply actions

Here Cameron vs Bradley vs Fukudome

http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=369&playerid2=1070&playerid3=3263&position=OF&page=8&type=full

That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.

by Ditkavsworld

by gaclaudy on Nov 9, 2009 7:39 PM CST up reply actions

What are everyone's thoughts on Dye?

I only suggest his name as a one year deal. Obviously this keeps Fukudome in CF. Would he do okay in RF at Wrigley? I never remember him struggling during interleague play.

Figured I’d ask here rather than start a whole new post.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Nov 9, 2009 4:16 PM CST reply actions

Dye is terrible

Those are my thoughts on Dye.

by Wreckard on Nov 9, 2009 5:13 PM CST up reply actions

He should be a DH.

Metal sharpens metal.

And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan

by dakoose on Nov 9, 2009 5:55 PM CST up reply actions

I guess like him.

But I’m not entirely sure about him. I make a point of not watching Sox baseball, so I only know that he dives for flyballs more often than [name redacted] and that he has a pleasant demeanor towards reporters.

by chilango2 on Nov 9, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions

That's a reason I bring it up.

From what I’ve heard/read, he’s a pretty good clubhouse guy. Seems to be a leader by actions and not by words (sorta like a DLee). Coming off a bad second half and in today’s market, may only get a one year deal on the cheap (think Bobby Abreu).

Of course that would make our lineup awfully right handed, which we know probably isn’t going to happen. Also probably makes our OF defense pretty weak, although I’m basing that off of Dye’s age.

This probably goes without saying, but signing Dye isn’t something I’m 100% sold on. He’d have to come cheap and for only a year.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Nov 9, 2009 6:10 PM CST up reply actions

I prefer Cameron to Dye

but Dye could have some value.

Really I’m all for Cameron.

Is he traded yet?

by DGU on Nov 9, 2009 5:16 PM CST up reply actions

Only

Cameron is only a 250 avg hitter ..

by CUBFANINAZ on Nov 9, 2009 5:23 PM CST up reply actions

Perhaps you would prefer Randy Winn...

Is he traded yet?

by DGU on Nov 9, 2009 5:33 PM CST up reply actions

I actually thought Randy Winn was not a bad option...

until I looked at his UZR for CF. He’s great on the corners but underwater up the middle, unfortunately.

by CubsWin!Oregon on Nov 9, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions

I like Winn as a super 4th OF if he comes cheap enough.

He’s a definite ’tweener though – not enough power for the corners and not enough defense for CF.

Is he traded yet?

by DGU on Nov 9, 2009 8:27 PM CST up reply actions

no not Randy Winn

Holliday

by CUBFANINAZ on Nov 9, 2009 7:09 PM CST up reply actions

Do you really think the Cubs can afford Matt Holliday?

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Nov 10, 2009 10:33 AM CST up reply actions

so?

Batting average is a useless statistic. He also can draw walks, hit for power, and play great defense

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett

by berselius on Nov 9, 2009 6:57 PM CST up reply actions

Dye v. Cameron

Considering that Dye and Cameron had nearly identical seasons offensively in 2009, and the wide disparity between their defensive numbers, I’d have to surmise that the Cubs would be a better team with Cameron in center and Fukudome in right than Fukudome in center and Dye in right.

by Bradsbeard on Nov 9, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions

Didn't mean to make this a Dye v. Cameron debate.

But I’ll play devils advocate.

I’d take a one year Dye deal v. a multi-year Cameron deal. I don’t really trust either of them for more than a season.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Nov 9, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions

I would too!

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on Nov 9, 2009 6:25 PM CST up reply actions

OLD

And not productive anymore. Pass

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Nov 12, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions