"Jim Hendry, Idiot at Work" (on bookshelves in time for the holidays!)
Excerpts from the book !!!!
Rewind to the 2006-07 offseason...
Genius Jim gets into a bidding war with himself that nets the Guess Hitting Hack for the princely sum of $136 million spread over 8 years.
Rewind to the 2007-08 offseason...
Nearly the whole attention of the offseason -- with exception of extremely overpaying for Kosuke Fukudome (who produces in line with So Taguchi) -- was 24/7 pursuit of Brian Roberts.
Rewind to the 2008-09 offseason...
The offseason was devoted to Genius Jim's attempts to clear salary in a procession of domino moves that would enable him to swing a deal for Jake Peavy and have the financial flexibility to add a left-handed hitting outfielder. Except at the end of the day the game of musical chairs stopped and the Cubs were left with an incomplete set of moves that resulted in the loss of Mark DeRosa and netted Milton Bradley, Aaron Miles, Aaron Heilman and Kevin Gregg. I don't know about anybody else's grading curve, but all four of those additions get an F minus. Oh, and he dished out an insane $52 million contract for Ryan Dempster, a 4th starter type who actually had the audacity to suggest the Cubs weren't ready to play the LA Dodgers in the playoffs. Maybe that explains why Dempster pitched like a turd in Game One. Say Ryan, how is it that professional baseball players can't manage to have themselves "ready" for the playoffs?!?! What kind of an indictment is that, yet Hendry still feels it his deep obligation to dish out $52 million on this guy?!?!
Now in the 2009-10 offseason...
Genius Jim....he the benefactor of baseball's third highest payroll....is left finding dump stations for Heilman and Miles while spending the rest of his time in between donut breaks trying to sell Milton Bradley. Oh, and his wondrous payroll management resulted in having to let Rich Harden walk. .
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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436 comments
Comments
May I ask...
Seriously if you’re under the care of a physician? You seem to have some anger issues that should be addressed. Not so much for this post, but just the comments I’ve read from you over the years. I’ve got a few friends in medicine, and would be happy to make a referral, if you like.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 10, 2009 8:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Post like BLou's is why no one really takes
message boards seriously. His infantile rants make everyone here look stupid.
Just ban the fool before the site degenerates into a teenage rant board.
by cubswin on Dec 11, 2009 7:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No one is required to read his posts.
There are a lot of other people here who have intelligent things to say.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 11, 2009 7:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think if we give Bradley a second chance he will do well,just to piss everyone off lolol
by bears rock on Dec 10, 2009 8:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I find it amazing that of all the cubs starters
blou is in love with the least durable and more 5 and fly prone starter
absolutely fascinating
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 10, 2009 8:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think
We overpaid for Dempster too. We rewarded him for a career year that came out of nowhere.
by tripdenten on Dec 10, 2009 8:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
you do realize that Dempster
has been completely worth his contract so far and that, if he maintains his performance, he’ll be worth his contract for the entirety of the deal?
It’s possible that, on an individual year basis that Dempster will be slightly overpaid in the final year … but to predict that now would be a bit unlikely.
BLou makes a lot of good points, but he hangs onto some idiotic ideas, such as the idea that Dempster is overpaid, and the idea that Fukudome has been “massively or extremely overpaid” (slightly, fine, but massively, as he noted in another thread, is just flat out wrong). The comparison to So Taguchi makes little sense as well … So’s highest WAR ever for a single season was 1.6. Kosuke’s WAR average for the last 2 years has been 2.05.
by toonsterwu on Dec 10, 2009 8:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And this is why I have little use for sabermagicians
The game of baseball is not played on a simulation model on the computer. Rather it is played between the white lines. Relative to the marketplace of 30 teams, the fact is the Cubs are ridiculously overpaying for the services of Kosuke Fukudome and Ryan Dempster. In addition of course to the Guess Hitting Hack who attempts to patrol left field and likes to hop a lot. Nobody was willing to dish out $30 million for Milton Bradley last winter either? Nobody except of course Genius Jim, who apparently can throw away reams of scouting reports and player history in deference to being wowed over dinner by a ballplayer selling himself to a potential employer.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 8:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea what a sabermagician is
I certainly am no sabrmetrician. I don’t even understand half of the new stats they have out. If you think that WAR for some reason is some new-fangled stat … well, hate to break it to you, but plenty of FO’s have acknowledged using WAR as something they look at. Furthermore, WAR isn’t a simulation model. That said, if you have no use for statistics, then … well, you do realize that statistics are a snapshot of reality, right? It’s how you evaluate it that matters. Also, to say advanced statistics don’t matter is to say that you don’t understand the direction baseball is headed. Almost every single front office uses advanced statistics.
Relative to the marketplace, it seems clear that Dempster is absolutely not overpaid. Brad Penny just landed 7.5 million. Randy Wolf is going to get around 8 million on AAV. Ryan has been better than both of those pitchers since he signed his contract. As for Fukudome, the Taguchi comment makes little sense. Taguchi’s OPS average is .717 for his career (OPS isn’t that crazy is it)? And if you’ve read my comments, you would know that I am not challenging if Fukudome is overpaid. I’m challenging this idea that he is massively overpaid. I don’t have any comaprison to the market right now, because no one that has signed is anywhere near Fukudome in terms of ability.
Btw, thanks for making my point for me. My point is that your assertion of those two as being overpaid to the extent that you are claiming is opinion, and not the fact that you claim it is. You are acknowledging that by acknowledging that you don’t look at statistics and go off gut feeling as a matter of comparison. As for the rest, I wasn’t challenging anything else other than your two opinions on Fukudome’s contract and Dempster’s contract. As noted, I do think your points on some issues are valid. I just don’t get why you keep hanging onto two arguments that just don’t have any merit.
by toonsterwu on Dec 10, 2009 8:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
side comment
I gotta say, BLou, leaving aside the Dempster/Fukduome discussion that we’ve done multiple times now, I do find it quite, um, interesting that you are bashing statistical analysis and bashing Hendry at the same time … considering that Hendry is considered one of the most old school current GM’s out there right now.
by toonsterwu on Dec 10, 2009 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't bash statistical analysis at all
But what I do object to is rationalization using selective statistic measures. And how on earth can you compare a ONE YEAR contract to Brad Penny or Randy Wolf on the same plane as an insane FOUR YEAR $48 million deal to Ryan Dempster?!?! That’s nonsensical.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it $48M or $52M?
"I always tell the truth -- Even when I lie"
by calicubfan on Dec 10, 2009 9:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It was 48 for Dome
52 for Dempster.
I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
by cubsluver22 on Dec 10, 2009 9:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If the game is "played between the lines" as you've stated...
…why do you care how much they’re being paid?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 10, 2009 9:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
because their high pay makes it harder to get better players?
Not that hard to understand
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 12, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well, he bashed sabermagicians
by saying “The game of baseball is not played on a simulation model on the computer. Rather it is played between the white lines.”
And yet instead of focusing in on what Dempster’s been able to do “between the white lines”, he continues to rant on his salary, which by all accounts is taken care back in the offices, outside the white lines.
Sorry – in a weak moment, I was actually trying to figure out what BLou was talking about. I should know better.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 12, 2009 6:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I used AAV as a comparison
Wolf got a 4 year deal BLou. Please read what I actually type. I specifically note AAV above.
Also, rather than just your opinion, could you explain why Dempster’s overpaid? I’ve argued, on Dempster, a variety of statistics, from innings, to WAR, to K/BB. to a combination of statistics, and so forth. It certainly hasn’t been selective, unless you’ve been selectively reading.
So … rather than continually rehashing all the numbers, could you please explain for a moment, beyond simply your opinion, why Dempster is overpaid.
by toonsterwu on Dec 10, 2009 9:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here is my "acid test"
If magic wand was waved and Cubs had a “do-over” on the following contracts, the decision would be….
Dempster — no way on God’s green earth does anybody give him a 4 year $52 million deal again
Fukudome — he would be fortunate to receive a 2 year, $14 million type deal
Soriano — nobody, and I mean nobody, would sign him to half the years and/or half the dollars (4 years, $68 million).
Bradley — nobody would give him anthing being a spring training invite
Miles — do we even need to discuss?
Zambrano — the enigmatic child would never realize similar payday to what he is paid now.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Though
If I had a magic wand, I’d waive it to make you a White Sox fan so I wouldn’t have to read your insane posts here.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 10, 2009 9:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So in essence...all of those players would be on different teams...
so what players would your “magic wand” bring in their place?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 10, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wrong on many magical ways
for starters when we signed Soriano/Fukudome/Dempster other teams were offfering close/same/more for them. This is not a secret, and Hendry competed for the players who he felt would give us the best chance to win. I remember how excited the majority of Cub fans were when Soriano signed, now there is a different song from the same band
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong
The majority of good Cub fans groaned in pain when Hendry signed Soriano to that contract. And there is compelling evidence to suggest that the Angels were not willing to go north of $90 million to sign Soriano, the principal and proabably only other serious bidder for his services.
And what you REALLY speak of is a total failure of scouting and player evaluation. Jim Hendry is as much guilty of awful player analysis as he is awful contracts.
He made horrible miscalcuation on Soriano, Fukudome, Bradley, Miles. Horrible.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So Really
You should only be upset about the “extra” $46 M the Cubs had to pay, right? That works out to less than 6 million a year. Big deal.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 10, 2009 10:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Priceless. The payroll department chimes in ….
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
Now go get that magic wand.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 10, 2009 10:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess we remember it different
I remember more excitement than negative outcry for Soriano when he was first signed. Then again you look for the negative often, so be it.
The player evaluation again is under Hendry sure, but how can he send scouts that he cannot hire? you seem to either want to disregard such things or you know something we dont, which is it?
he didnt miscalculate on Fukudome, he went off what scouts were sayhing, and good ol KENNY WILLIAMS, you savior for all GM’s offered him more than Hendry, but Fukudome choose the Cubs instead of pushing Dye out of his spot (this was made known in many reviews of his signing)
from the above link
It’s been reported that the White Sox offered more money to Fukudome than the Cubs did, but he chose the Cubs because they guaranteed that he would play right field.
so Hendry was not alone in believing Fukudome was going to put up better numbers than he has. But lets not let facts get in your way BLou,
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Would this be the same newsworthy source that said there was a definite market for Milton Bradley this offseason?!?!
When you can prove that Kenny Williams made actual more lucrative contract offer to Kosuke Fukudome, then get back to me. Because I don’t recall Kenny Williams EVER stating that he made an actual offer. Quite the opposite in fact. The only thing the Sox did was inquire about Fukudome.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
I love your selective memory. If you were German, I bet you’d be a Holocaust denier too.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 10, 2009 10:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
really? you went there?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 12, 2009 6:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
funnt BLou
you disregard all evidence in anything given to you, you never let aq fact get in the way of your bullsh#& opinion that is based on nothing more than your hatred for anything positive in Cubdom, and then you ask for further evidence. Why dont you look it up, i gave you ONE LINK out of MANY LINKS about the Padres and White Sox offering him a contract.
and since you are not going to start asking for back up to statements, you better offer them on your ignorant rants when asked to, which we all know you never have nor will provide. facts mess up your strange little world BLou, we all know this.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you have factual evidence that San Diego and the White Sox offered Kosuke a contract, then prove it
Because it seems to me that lil’ Timmy believes absolutely positively everything he reads in the newspapers and on baseball blogs.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
padres contract offer: http://whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071207&content_id=2321112&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 10, 2009 10:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so again Jim Hendry gets a free pass for lousy scouting of Kosuke Fukudome (and way too many others) because other teams flashed interest to...
Hmm….so if Kevin Towers, former GM of the San Diego Padrags, jumped off a bridge, does that mean Jim Hendry should too?!?!?
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent sidestep!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 10, 2009 10:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously,
That was actually shameful.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 10, 2009 10:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't seriously expect him to address it did you?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 10, 2009 10:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know...
He seems like a smart guy, but it gets harder with every season to take him seriously.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 10, 2009 10:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
why would he start now?
there was no contract according to him so he will just ignore facts once again
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again Timmy, precisely what are the "facts"?!?!
Because apparently you are actually the oft-referred to “fly on the wall” who sits in on front office discussions of 29 other major league ballclubs when otherwise not believing every bloody rumor and innuendo posted by The Comic Book Store Guy on his baseball blogsphere.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i guess the links
i and others provided are nothing to you (as you again side step these facts given to you).
The entire point I was making to start was that hendry is not the anti-christ you make him out to be, and that he has made many sound moves, which you decided should have a time limit to be used (when your negative moves never expire i guess).
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Timmy, Timmy, Timmy...
I’m sure deep down Jim Hendry is a swell guy. But sorry to say I think he really, really, really, really, really sorta sucks at running the Cubs despite the fact that he acquired Derrek Lee for a bag of magic beans 6 years ago.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
over all he has not been a bad GM
he has some bad moves on his resume, but what GM doesnt? You like to use isolated incidents, and then disregard other isolated ones that offset yours.
might want to go outside and yell at the kids to get off the grass, then kick your dog
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So when do you post without personally insulting or belittling?
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
by BeerCub on Dec 11, 2009 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so again Jim Hendry gets a free pass for lousy scouting of Kosuke Fukudome (and way too many others) because other teams flashed interest to…
im not sure, considering i never that he should
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 10, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
said that he, meh
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 10, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh, and if you're interested
heres an article with fukudomes agent saying the sox offered more money than anybody else
http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2007/12/strike_three.html
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 10, 2009 10:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You know you can't believe AGENTS!!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 10, 2009 10:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
only BLou can be trusted
he would never be wrong in his opinion, and all facts that dispove him are nothing more than media hooplah that should be disregarded
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hmm he hasnt responded to me
is it something i said?
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 10, 2009 10:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he wont
he will ignore it cuz it is a fact that he doesnt want to acknowledge
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Wolf
Was signed to a FOUR YEAR deal with the Brewers.
3 years for 29.75 million with with a club option for 2013 at 10 M
Dempsters contract
09 8 M
10 12.5 M
11 13.5 M
12 14 M (player option)
So actually, the Cubs contract could LESS than Wolf’s when all is said and done.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 10, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your point
But a 3 year deal with a club option is not the same as a 4 year guaranteed deal – it’s not even really close.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 11, 2009 12:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
at might school F was the worse you
could get….there was no F minus…of course it was only a public school……
by cozmotaylor123 on Dec 10, 2009 8:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well, as you noted
it was only a public school. ;-)
"I have the time and hatred but not the knowledge." ~Madison Cub Fan (Aug. 25, 2009)
by Goodie1969 on Dec 10, 2009 8:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Devil Gets his due here...
This post is spot on! Rec’d!
I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
by cubsluver22 on Dec 10, 2009 8:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
it is spot on
as long as you disregard every other move he made, including DLee, Rami, etc
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 8:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its time to quit hanging onto the past
I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
by cubsluver22 on Dec 10, 2009 8:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
big mac agrees
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 10, 2009 8:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not here to talk about the past.
In chirps Sosa “I no speaky English, I get big on Red Beans & Rice”
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Dec 12, 2009 7:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In chirps Sosa "I no speaky English, I get big on Red Beans & Rice"
and then popeye comes in and tells everyone hes on spinnach
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 12, 2009 8:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
then cant complain about any of the moves
they all were in the past
and if you want to use current players, he did sign/trade for DLee, Rami as he did Sori/Dome, so which is it, you can complain about the negative moves that you want to use against Hendry but cannot accept any positive moves? Seems quite one sided of an argument and outlook then, which is a crock of (edited for language).
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well how much do you credit Hendry for those moves?
Ramirez was part of a straight up fire sale, the Pirates had little to no leverage. The Lee deal was great, I’ll give you that, but again the Marlins were under a great deal of financial duress at that time.
He bid against himself for Soriano and vastly overpaid in dollars and years, and Fukudome is hardly worth 48M, I dont care what his WAR is.
Seems to me that when he isnt blatantly taken advantage of a teams misery, he’s not that shrewd and as we’ve seen the past two offseasons, he ignores a players history both on and off the field and overpays for marginal players
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 9:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sorinao was to make up for not getting Beltran or Furcal
he was not going to go 0-3 and over bid, sure. He also was idding against the Angels and I am sure others as well.
Rami, fire sale or not, he has to make the deal happen when I am sure others were also making offers. How about the Nomar move (sure Nomar didnt pan out, but what a trade he did work with Sox/Expos).
With the moves we can sit here and say the good and bad about each, but it is easy to play arm chair GM and talk about what happened, when we have no control about it after the fact.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats great
So we cant debate about his merits b/c we have no control over them? Then why watch sports?
And arguing for him by citing how his moves helped other teams doesnt really build his credentials.
The fact that he didnt restrain himself and went way over market simply b/c two other previous free agents didnt sign is proof that he’s not rational enough or doesnt have enough presence of mind to manage a franchise this large.
He made the Ramirez deal, but it wasnt a stroke of genius for which he should be credited, he took advantage of a moribund franchise, thats hardly a resume buffer.
Hes a B+ GM with an A+ payroll at his disposal, and he’s not getting A+ results
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the moves helped other teams
and not us? seriously, wtf
as stated above, i am sure that Hendry was not the only person on the horn for Rami
what about moving Hundley for Karros and Grudz, or moving Cedeno when no one wanted him it seemed. IHendry is not the idiot people want to make him out to be
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well to me
you seemed to be suggesting that his deal working out for the Expos and Red Sox was some sort of merit.
Karros and Mark G was six years ago, thats irrelevant now. Sure it was a great move, but it has no bearing on the 2007-10 Cubs
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 9:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i was stating that he made a trade for Nomar
which (at the time of the trade) was an amazing trade for the Cubs since we didnt give up anything.
Now the first sentence that i started that comment with was directed at you and how you state that his trades help other teams
(to quote you)
And arguing for him by citing how his moves helped other teams doesnt really build his credentials.
which I still dont understand why you even stated this? I guess being outbid for Furcal/beltran was a move that helped other teams (sigh)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Calm Down
I misread your Expos/Red Sox comment
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
its cool
i tend to type like i talk, which is blunt and i hope you dont misunderstand blunt with argumentative, im not attacking and if u took it that way, my bad
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That was a pretty good trade.
It was also well within the Hendry mid-decade M.O. of “shy away from the elite free agent, and then when your plan B fails miserably, go all out for the ‘next best thing’ guy, cost be damned.”
Hendry refused to make an offer on Beltran, and when the revolving door of misery in CF failed, he had to pay through the nose for Soriano, and try to convince us all he was a centerfielder.
Nomar came into town a year after Hendry refused to bid on Miggy Tejada, who signed for $12M annually. We went with Alex Gonzalez and Rey Ordonez and like 12 other shortstops, until the deadline. And in the end, we wound up spending just about as much as we would have if he’d just signed Tejada to begin with.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 10, 2009 11:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So...
… that would make him an overall “A”? B+ and A+ = A. He’s gotten the Cubs to the playoffs, and kept them in the race. He made mistakes with Bradley, Heilman and Miles, but those were not the sole reasons the Cubs failed to reach the playoffs this year.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
by Ross on Dec 10, 2009 9:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It was just a figure of speech
I dont claim he’s the worst, but he’s got amongst the best resources in the game, and his performance hasnt been what one could expect from the resources he has at hand
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 9:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we might be lucky we missed on those two
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 10:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
true
but when we initially missed, many Cub fans were ticked off that we didnt sign them.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but i look to the NBA for an example
Shaq is the only max-level free agent to ever win his new team a title (LA), so Id be curious to see if that trend exists in MLB. I just happen to think Hendry gets more infatuated than your average GM, perhaps b/c its more in the realm of reality for the Cubs, doesnt make it a good idea, however.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 10:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
or cojld be all teams fans do the same as us
and we dont care about them lol
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You could argue the converse is also true,
and that it’s time to stop harping on the past.
My point is that you have to balance Hendry’s good moves against his boneheaded moves and consider, which moves are more likely to happen in the future? Right now, unfortunately, he seems to be trending toward boneheaded, but let’s see how the whole offseason plays out before we slap the dunce hat on him.
"I have the time and hatred but not the knowledge." ~Madison Cub Fan (Aug. 25, 2009)
by Goodie1969 on Dec 10, 2009 9:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i think he needs two just to get things in order
from the Zell.trib fiasco.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what's the etc... stand for?
Rami was clearly a salary dump by the Pirates. Lee was a nice acquisition, but how about naming a few others.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 12, 2009 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As I recall
The Cubs really wanted the CF and we got “stuck” with the Rami as a salary dump.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Dec 12, 2009 7:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe u r correct
and he was a concern since his defense was queationable when we first got him
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 1:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if you read my comments thru thus thread
i have and others have as well
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 1:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So
You’re the one. Figures.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 10, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've got 10:47 in the thread hijack pool...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 10, 2009 8:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I love you, ballhawk
Cubs Supreme in Baseball World.
by Emelie on Dec 10, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
awwww.....
::blushes::
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 10, 2009 10:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
arrgh
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 10, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
...they can't stop me, they can only hope to contain me
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yep, there's still 20 minutes left, but I gotta admit - looks like you've got another winner here, BLou...
lemme guess – Reggie “the straw that stirs the drink” Jackson was your favorite Yankee?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 10, 2009 10:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually a great big fan of the 77, 78 Yankees
If you haven’t already, read the book The Bronx Zoo by Sparky Lyle. It is one of the greatest sports books of all time. Wonderful stuff about all those wonderful characters on those teams…Reggie, Billy, Goose, Lyle, Catfish, Nettles, Dent, Thurman and yes even Sweet Lou. In fact the stuff on Piniella is the most funny. Every other word out of Lou’s mouth during those days was the f word.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, your modus operandi around here at times does resemble that of Graig "Puff" Nettles...
Not tonight though – at least you’re sticking around to fight your battles. Keep up the work!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 10, 2009 10:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Going to bed soon...
My wife says I really ought not spend too much of my free time people who are wrong on the Internet….
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so she said to stop talking to yourself?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:48 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
haha
Rec’d for making my night with a good laugh before bed.
Greg Maddux could put a baseball through a Life Saver if you asked him. ~ Joe Morgan
by Sioux City Cubs Fan on Dec 11, 2009 12:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You win the fanpost
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Dec 11, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
BLou every night before he gives his with the ol "pickle tickle"

That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Dec 12, 2009 7:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
this reminds me of the saying
do somethign right no one cares, do smething wrong no one forgets. Hendry has made bonehead moves, but he has also made many good moves. Can you complain about losing DeRosa if Hendry doesnt sign him?
I get it BLou, you hate Hendry, let it go. Your hatred for Hendry pars Jessica and Uncle Lou I think
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 8:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You have to draw the line somewhere
While this post may be on the sarcastic side, I think the point is valid. Hendrys performance the past few years warrants some serious criticism. I fall on the side that believes he should have lost his job for his poor performance the past few offseasons.
He’s made horrible use of the resources at his hands and shows no signs of correcting his errors: see Grabow, John.
So the question to Hendry supporters or those who are simply ambivalent, what will he have to do or not in order for him to be replaced?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 8:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i think if the cubs make the postseason and actually make progress (ie actually making the series close)
he might keep his job
might
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 10, 2009 9:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would agree with that as well
though i dont see it happening b/c his moves the past two offseasons have really set us back, as he’s spending the majority of his time now trying to correct his errors. And so far, granted its been incredibly short, Ricketts hasnt shown any indication of being our golden goose, so this reclamation project might take several years, so we’d better hope Castro was worth holding on to
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 9:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the backloading of contracs
i am sure was due to Zell and the Tribune wanting to profit from the moves while letting the new owner pay the balance later. Kinda like shopping with someone elses credit card. Make a note that the majority of the backloading came after Zell bought the Tribune and its assets, including the Cubs. It is only fair Hendry gets a chance under the new ownership to prove one way or the other with an owner who is not going to get invloved/make “suggestions” to Hendry about baseball moves, and also will not be worried about the corporate balance sheet (which the Trib and Zell had to be, since the Cubs profits were part of the financial statements for the Tribune Corporation and the shareholders didnt care about wins/loses, just black and red.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How did Zell suggest baseball moves to Hendry?
I’ll concede the point that it probably wasnt an ideal working situation during the transition/bankruptcy etc etc, but with the resources he has at hand, he’s done an awful job the past few seasons
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
telling Hendry to backload contract
would be a huge suggestion from Zell, for an example.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well thats not a "baseball suggestion" is it?
he either doesnt surround himself with smart baseball men or he simply ignores facts when dolling out these deals and Im sure it was tough to operate the team with Zell ostensibly pulling the strings while the sale played out, but that doesnt change the fact he’s done a poor job and set us back a few years
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it is
since the payroll for tomorrow is screwed by it. and you would need to then find players willing to accept backloading, etc. the smallest financial change in a company can affect the entire company more than people seem to realize at times
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, but Zell knew nothing about baseball
so to suggest he had a hand in Hendrys decision to sign Miles or Bradley or Fukudome doesnt hold water for me, sure he ultimately dictated the books, but I doubt he told him whom to sign and for how long; he was probably given a figure and told to work within it
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
did i once say that..NO I DID NOT
I said telling him that contracts are to be backloaded plays a hand in the daily baseball business. If you somehow understood that as Hendry was told to sign MB or MIles, it would explain why you are not understanding of a balance sheet, and how finances work into future moves
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
....
an owner" who is not going to get invloved/make "suggestions" to Hendry about baseball moves,"
thats what I took from that sentence. Its more likely he told Jimbo this is what you have to work with this year and this is what we expect you’ll have to work with in X years. The onus is still on Hendry for how he spent that.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Zell and the Trib
told Hendry to backload contract, (I am sure of it) and that is more than saying here is your budget have fun. To backload the Trib reeped the initial benefit while letting the new ownership pay the tab. I hope that is clear now, and if not, i dont know how else to explain it.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thats still not telling him who to sign
Hendry still decided who to sign, so I guess we should leave it at that
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 9:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess you are going to ignore
all I have said about it. no need to waste my time repeating myself over and over and over. go read what i stated aboutj how backloading affects who he can sign and who is willing to sign such a contract. backloading also makes trading the player (ahem MB) much harder since there is a lot more moneyh on the table in the players contract. this is nothing hard to understand, its pretty basic.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Youre right it is
He made the decisions who to sign, the Twins dont seem to have a problem being competitive in a much tougher league, the Marlins manage to defy all reasoning with their meager payroll.
Hendry under Zell had more then enough money and wiggle room to make virtually the entire league jealous and he still did a horrid job.
So youre right, its pretty basic, he’s done an awful job
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 9:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Sure
The AL Central doesn’t have a weak link anywhere and it takes 100 wins to take home the crown every year ….
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 10, 2009 9:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the AL is better than the NL
in general and no ownership group is more frugal than the Twins
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that has a lot to do with talent evaluation
and the need for a larger scouting staff. we have the smallest in MLB (IIRC) and without scouts around the world how can you properly get prospects like Minn and FLa?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can I see some proof
That Zell told Hendry to backload his contracts? Or this speculation on your part?
I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
by cubsluver22 on Dec 10, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
do the math
look at when backloading became a part of Hendry’s contracts, and it coincides with Zell, and with the Tribune filing bk. as i said above I AM SURE OF IT, so it is an educated opinion based on working in finance
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You can't be SURE of it.
Rumor and conjecture are KINDS of evidence, your honor!
Soriano’s contract predates Zell – his buyout plan was only announced in April of 2007, and didn’t close until the end of 2007. The BK filing wasn’t until December 2008.
I just don’t see how this timeline adds up. Hendry has been backloading contracts for a lot longer than that. Look at the deal Aramis got back in 2004.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 10, 2009 11:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i knwo some predate
but they got worse as Zell/Trib took over
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 11:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How are you so sure of this?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 10, 2009 11:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i explained my opinion on that above
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 11:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
honest answer?
I fall on the ambivalent side on Jim Hendry right now. I tend to think that he’s just another GM. Nothing too bad, nothing too good. As I noted in a post the other day, the only thing that bothered me greatly about Hendry’s tenure so far has been that it took him awhile to make system changes, and I half-wonder what would’ve happened if Stockstill hadn’t been lured away by McPhail.
What’s it going to take? Honestly, if Ricketts fired him tomorrow, I wouldn’t care. I think he deserves one more year, but if Ricketts fired him tomorrow, I could understand it. That said, in general, I think he deserves to get 2010. It’s easy to point to all his resources and undervalue the fact that he did build two playoff clubs. As we’ve seen in recent years, all the money doesn’t guarantee anything. He’s taken some decent chances. It is fair to say that the mistakes are analyzed more, because that is human nature ( I mean, we simply have to watch the news), but it’s also fair to critique him for some debatable moves (DeRosa/Gregg trades last offseason), or reactionary moves (Pierre trade). Also, to his credit, even though I think he was slow on changes, the overall organization is as strong as it’s been in awhile. There’s well-regarded coaches in the minor league level. They’ve expanded the scouting department.
All the positive things won’t get him anywhere if he can’t build, say, a 88+ win squad for next year. At the end of the day, the buck does stop with him, and all the internal organizational improvements won’t mean squat, all the young talent won’t mean squat, unless the big league squad is successful. 2 years of .500ish level would probably be enough for me to say turn the page. Furthermore, 2010 is somewhat the last year of the old core. Sure, we could bring Lilly and Lee back, but by 2011, we should see some youngsters, or we should see some trades involving our youngsters. If this club is .500ish level next year, then we might as well get a new GM in place as we start bringing in youngsters.
Before we get too worked up about not having done anything at the winter meetings, let’s keep in mind that few people expected a massive number of moves. I still stand by what I said earlier on the MB situation – 1/1/2010 is when he has to move MB by, before too much time has passed this offseason. Also, I’m taking a half-guess that your comment about Fukudome’s contract above was directed at me. I have never said he wasn’t overpaid … what I’ve simply said is that he hasn’t been massively/extremely overpaid so far. He’s been paid 17.5 million so far … last year, he was an above average offensive CF with below average defense. Put him in RF, and be probably would’ve been more useful. There’s 26.5 million remaining on the last 2 years, but I still have a hard time buying the idea that, at the end of the day, he’s going to be massively overpaid for the totality of his contract. Only time will tell.
by toonsterwu on Dec 10, 2009 9:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well said
But you know that I disagree. I was ambivalent before last offseason, but so much of what he did just confounded me b/c they seemed so blatanly bad and one wouldve assumed he wouldve realized that. I mean Aaron Miles, Milton Bradley??
It was clear as day those moves wouldnt work out. So for me, whatever goodwill he earned, and I dont credit him with much, was gone b/c his recent performance has set us back further than he may have brought us.
I would agree that he’s very reactionary, but thats a horrible quality to have in a GM isnt it?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 9:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can understand that
as noted, if he’s fired, I honestly wouldn’t be upset or anything. I could understand it, althoughmy complaints would be slightly different from what most people are complaining about (I’ll say what I’ve said before the Soriano contract – everyone knew he was being overpaid, but coming off a bad year, we had to overpay to land a FA. Whether it was Carlos Lee or Fonzi, assuming we were gunning after someone, we had to overpay).
Let me make one other point – this isn’t any consolation when things are bad, but I respect a GM that tries to make a tough decision. I didn’t like the Pierre trade, but I understood and could respect the intent behind it. I think were are a few GM’s out there where they make moves that you simply scratch you head (Ed Wade, the recently fired JP Ricciardi, Dayton Moore, and I could go on). I can see where Hendry is coming from on most of his moves, even if I think some of them are bad decisions. Even last offseason, I can understand the intent to getting more lefthanded. I could understand the MB addition. I didn’t like the moves to get there, but I could understand the intent.
On a tangential point, I’m also not sure that anyone else could do anything different this offseason. I thought early in the offseason that Milton was going to be have to be a swallow, or a eat the majority of the contract type move. The only question was whether or not Hendry was going to be allowed to do that, and so far, it seems clear that he isn’t (I’m also not against keeping Bradley, although my desire to move him rests with a desire to improve OF defense, and very little to do with Bradley. As they say, when you win, nothing looks that bad.)
by toonsterwu on Dec 10, 2009 9:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The whole LH situation is a prime example of overreaction
On his and Lous behalf, the let one series dictate the entire direction of the offseason, which was clearly foolish.
Id be curious to see what your opinion was on the Granderson-Cubs talks, if you could respect him and understand why he gave up Nolasco for Pierre, would you have felt the same about Castro for Granderson? The situations wouldve have been fairly similar.
Ironically enough, one could argue that Hendry did learn his lesson from that
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 9:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The whole LH situation is a prime example of overreaction
correct-e-mundo, especially considering the team had only 1 more starting LH bat in the lineup in fontenot, but he really didnt do anything to be considered a “bat”
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 10, 2009 9:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with this
and MB is a better RH hitter than LF when you are looking for his power. I do not fault hendry as much in the history of Cub moves as many, but I also will not say Hendry has not made a mistake, there is enough blame to go around.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you are asking me
If I could respect and understand the intent if he had decided to choose to trade Castro for Granderson, then I can say yes to that. I mean, I understood and could respect the Nolasco (and Pinto/Mitre) trade for Pierre … I just didn’t like it. And I wouldn’t have liked a Castro for Granderson trade. I would also point out that Nolasco was never as highly regarded as Castro this offseason. Doesn’t mean Castro will succeed …
That said, sure if he had made the trade, I could respect the decision, I could understand the intent … and I would’ve hated the trade. I don’t think it’s mutually exclusive.
by toonsterwu on Dec 10, 2009 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No its not
I was all for it given the age of this team and the potential of HJ Lee
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Generally speaking, I'd say I'm a Hendry supporter...
…so if I put my Tom Ricketts hat on, here’s how I’d evaluate Hendry’s job security.
First little test is to see how he handles this MB situation. It’s certainly not going to be make-or-break as it is pretty much a no-win scenario. And I already have a good idea of how it’s going to end up – or at least I should have. But it is an interesting situation to put it mildly and seeing how Hendry deals with it will help me get a measure of his ability to handle adversity. Again, I think I how how it will turn out, but hey – if he can pull another Karros/Grudz rabbit out of the hat, that would be impressive.
But frankly, I’m more concerned with the next “generation” of the Chicago Cubs. What’s this team going to look like post DLee/ARam? Do we continue building our rotation around Z? Is there a productive way to get out from under Soriano’s deal? What is the plan for integrating our top prospects? Where are our remaining holes and how do we best fill them?
Basically at some point over the next year, I’m going to want Hendry to “interview” for his job again – and I’d do the same with Kenney (obviously with a more business operations perspective). They’re going to have to convince me they have a vision for the future, and it’s one that I agree with.
If not, I make a call and bring Sandy Alderson on board… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 10, 2009 9:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds reasonable
But one counter argument youre going to get is that Hendry has done a poor job, historically, with the minor league system instead relying on free agency to augment the team.
I think if we’re all honest, we’re all worried about the Cubs 3 years or so from now, b/c it looks as though theres going to be a period of decline, in part I would argue, b/c of Hendrys recent decision making.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 9:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
most his development issues
were from trading prospects to field a better team (not a bad decision short term) and the fact we have teh smallest personnel office, and had mlittle to no scouts compared to other teams. these can fix each other with hiring additional scouts for starters. that also comes from ownership allowing the personnel to be larger.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In this respect I would suggest the problem dates past Hendry
I’ll give you that
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Trading away Felix Pie managed to hurt the current team *and* the future teams.
That was a “get a little bit worse right now in order to get WAY worse down the line” kind of trade.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 10, 2009 11:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i disagree
Pie was done in Chicago. It is hard for anyone to produce when being booed, and not able to get on the field consistently. He was a project on at eam that could not have projects when trying to win now. Sure the moves didnt all work out for the 2009 Cubs, but pie being moved was sensible and for the better of the club, and even moreso for him
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 11:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't recall Pie being booed
Maybe someone can refresh my memory.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
by zambranofan on Dec 11, 2009 8:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't remember that either.
I also think that the whole “we had to trade Pie, because we didn’t have the patience to let him play and we were going to screw up his career anyway” is a pretty poor rationale for trading away your top prospect. It’s not even a rationale at all – it’s describing a systemic failure.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 11, 2009 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Haikus for D98: On "Systemic Failure"
If all you will post
from Hendry to Hamilton
is world-ending doom
then really you need
to use a different style:
Apocalyptic
Is he traded yet?
by DGU on Dec 11, 2009 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If we use the Pie logic, we may as well trade Vitters and Castro now, too.
After all, we’re just going to mess it up anyway. Trade ‘em all. See if we can’t get this year’s version of Aaron Heilman.
I hate to play the role of the “teller of uncomfortable truths.” That said, I haven’t missed very often in the last 18 months on calling Hendry’s mistakes out for what they are. He has done a very poor job, and the Cubs are substantially weakened for it.
I will give you my absolute guarantee that if/when Hendry (or the next GM) starts doing things that help the Cubs organization, I’ll be their biggest cheerleader.
Heck, I probably was Hendry’s biggest cheerleader for his first few years.
But in haiku:
Mister Hamilton
Was right there for the taking
But Jim Hendry passed.
Even with no risk
Hendry passed on Hamilton
For one-hundred K
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 11, 2009 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Often insightful
But this obsession is a
Revisionist tale
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 11, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm no haiku master
but I agree with you, SB, particularly on this B.S. Hamilton meme. Ridiculous.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 12, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again, a world where facts do not exist.
The Cubs had the #3 pick in the Rule 5 draft.
Josh Hamilton was available in the Rule 5 draft.
Prior to the draft, the Cubs traded away their pick, and agreed to draft for CIN in exchange for $100K.
Picking Hamilton would have been the very definition of a low-to-no-risk, potential high-reward proposition. For whatever reason- and there were many valid reasons – the Cubs opted not to take the chance at drafting Hamilton.
Obviously, CIN had a preexisting relationship with Hamilton and knew that he was worth selecting. But the fact is, for whatever his reasons were, Hendry passed.
And to this day, on this site, a subset of posters seem to be completely blind to this sequence of events, saying that “there is no way that Hamilton could have been a Cub”.
Well, yes, there was. The Cubs could have told CIN “no thanks, we’d like to select Hamilton if he’s available” when they came calling.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 12, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you have a brain cell working?
Let me say this in plain English, just so there can be no excuses about any miscommunication:
NO TEAM (except the Reds) WOULD TOUCH JOSH HAMILTON WITH A TEN-FOOT POLE.
He was an alcoholic/addict who appeared more likely to drop dead than to ever play in the major leagues again.
The Reds didn’t “know” Hamilton was worth selecting. They picked him, basically, as a favor.
Every other GM in baseball could have taken a chance on him. None did. If you’re going to persecute Hendry for that, you need to persecute every other GM who joined him. Which is, basically, all of them.
Maybe you’re just too obtuse to comprehend something like that, and that explains your insistence on this point. Or you’re just looking for another excuse to lay into Hendry. If that’s the case, congratulations.
Now, run along and leave the baseball conversation to the big boys, OK?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 12, 2009 10:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are making things up.
None of the facts you post above are actually “facts” – they are your subjective beliefs, and some are objectively wrong.
For instance, what in the hell do you mean by “every other GM in baseball could have taken a chance on him.” ?!? He was selected #3 in the Rule 5 draft. It seems that 2 other GMs in baseball could have taken a chance on him – 3 if we count the Rays.
No one else held a Rule 5 pick with Hamilton on the board.
“He was an alcoholic/addict who appeared more likely to drop dead than to ever play in the major leagues again.”
Again, what in the hell are you talking about? First off, “again”? He’d never been in the major leagues to begin with.
Secondly, “more likely to drop dead”? He’d been clean for a year, with constant voluntary monitoring.
Thirdly, when Hamilton was made available in the Rule 5 draft, it wasn’t a secret. He was widely discussed as the most interesting Rule 5 draftee in years, if not ever. It was very clear that he was going to be drafted, and early.
Finally, leave the condescension out of it. For someone who has been wrong about literally every stance they’ve taken in the last 12 months, you have quite the mouth.
You’re constantly wrong, and still with that petulant attitude and smart mouth.
It’s almost impossible to reconcile, until I remember that you exist in a world where facts simply don’t apply. It makes it easy to pretend that you know what you’re talking about when you’ve been repeatedly, repeatedly shown to be full of BS. Just ignore everything that has actually happened, and you’re batting 1.000!
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 12, 2009 11:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I misspoke when I said "again"
in reference to his major league service. You got me there. Give yourself a gold star.
The rest of it? Nope. Cincinnati told the Cubs whom to pick, dumbazz. It’s doubtful the Cubs would have picked him had they not been told to do so. He was in rookie league at the time, I believe? He was a huge risk, one most teams wouldn’t take.
But your ignorance gives you another cudgel with which to bash Hendry, so that justifies it all. You really are something.
Again, come back when your brain is fully formed.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 13, 2009 1:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll repeat-- you are making all of this up.
Of course cincy told the cubs who to pick— they wanted Hamilton, he wasn’t going to last until cincy’s pick…. That’s why they traded up.
It’s really not hard to get the actual facts of hamiltons suspension and his career. Why not look it up? (quick hint, you’re wrong about rookie league.)
It’s hilarious that someone would call another “ignorant”, while repeatedly and exclusively spouting incorrect facts.
But that’s how you work—- facts can be safely ignored if they don’t fit your little worldview.
You are either intentionally lying, or more likely, you have absolutely no idea about the facts surrounding hamiltons suspension, reinstatement, and exposure in rule 5.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 13, 2009 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The namecalling will STOP RIGHT NOW.
Both of you.
The fact is, the Reds wanted him because John Narron (Jerry’s brother) was working for them; he’s a personal friend of the Hamilton family and they wanted him to be around Josh to look after him. Period. End of story.
The idea that ANY team other than the Reds would have chosen him is revisionist history. The Cubs did the Reds a favor. Not a single human being would have ever expected Hamilton to stick, much less have the success he had.
Now, let’s end this discussion AND the namecalling.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, Al,
as always, for your perspective and your patience.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 13, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
IIRC
this was when he was using or just finished using heroine and an alcoholic. no one wanted him to speak of, and the Cubs amongst many other teams thought nothing of him
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 1:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 12, 2009 11:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
every rule 5 player
is a low risk. so that is a moot point
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 1:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a moot point-- it's one of the main points.
We were looking at, an had the opportunity to select for no cost, a former #1 overall pick who had overcome his drug problems. For whatever reason, we passed. Maybe Lou had some terrible personal experience with him. Who knows.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 13, 2009 9:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it is a moot point
name a high rick rule 5 draftee………Hamilton would be about as close to one as you can find, coming out of heroine and alcohol problems.
also, please note what Al explained above, wich makes your entire argument moot at this point.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Hendry had backed out of that deal
and kept Hamilton, it would have been career suicide. No other GM would ever want to deal with him again, because he couldn’t be trusted.
Again, the Cubs did not pick Hamilton on their own. They picked him because they made a deal with the Reds to do so, and the Reds wanted him for the reasons Al stated above.
And given his relapse last year, Hamilton apparently hasn’t licked his problems, and he probably never will. Not making a judgment on his character, but that’s the life of an alcoholic/addict. One day at a time.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 13, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i know
i said he was a HIGH RISK not a low risk draftee. And the argument ab out Hamilton and the Cubs drafting him is beyond moot.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, absolutely
I wasn’t disputing anything you said, just amplifying on my point a bit.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 13, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's not the issue presented.
No one is saying that the Cubs should have backed out of a trade.
I’m saying that they never should have made the trade to begin with.
Finally, Hamilton’s “relapse” was drinking in a bar one night, at the end of which he called his sponsor and his GM. It’s only a story b/c cameras were there, and (as you note), b/c Hamilton believes that substance abuse is an incredibly slipperly slope for him, and that drinking could lead to everything else. Of course, that hasn’t happened.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 14, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Beautiful haiku
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 13, 2009 9:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rule 5 Draft has been around since 1959
and there is ONE HOF player taken in it, and 21 have played in the ASG. That is such a low percentage, that the Rule 5 draft is nothing more than low risk players and most seem to be low reward as well. Can we stop talking about a Rule 5 that “got away” (especially since he didnt really get away)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 11:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
1 HOF
One cy young and one mvp!!! and some all stars also.
by Slamdog on Dec 14, 2009 6:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I count 3 MVPs
Bell, Hernandez, Clemente
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 14, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Johan Santana was a Rule 5 pick
So it will probably be 2 Hall of Famers in 10 years or so.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 14, 2009 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
over a 50 year period
not exactly a high percentage
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 14, 2009 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Understood, but those things (Hendry's recent decision making) didn't happen on Ricketts' watch.
While I’m sure he would take into account his entire body of work, I think he would place a lot more emphasis on what he does in the here and now.
I’m speculating here, but I don’t think it’s a reach to say that Ricketts got a good look at how the sausage was being made at the Tribune factory during the whole purchase and ownership transfer process. It couldn’t have been pretty. So while it’d be easy to judge Hendry’s efforts on the surface, there might have been extenuating circumstances.
I realize that may sound like an excuse and I certainly don’t intend for it to be that way, But it would just give me more reason to place a stronger emphasis on what I see with my own hands (and control).
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 10, 2009 10:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and I am also sure
Hendry has let Ricketts know what/if he was told to do under Zell that he wants to do differeny, etc. There are many inside conversations we have not been invited to and can only speculate. Kinda like a meeting between a player and a coach/GM/agent, etc
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course hed say taht
he wants to keep his job, same as any of us, but if Ricketts got to see the factory floor as it were, there is just as good a chance Hendrys in the 11th hour rather than RIcketts clearing his slate.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 10, 2009 10:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I definitely agree
In fact, I’d probably put it at least 60/40 Hendry’s in his 11th hour. But instead of just coming in and cleaning house as a matter of course, Ricketts is giving Hendry a chance to prove himself.
Or hang himself, as the case may be…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 10, 2009 10:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with that
I also agree with giving a person a chance to fix the errors. he did so with Hundley, he has pulled off many good moves, give him a chance with new ownership and lets see where it leads us
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you speak truth here
we here on BCB are all on the outside and project what might possibly be going on in the inside. Some of what we conjecture is likely truth but a whole lot isn’t. Coming into a situation as a newcomer, as Ricketts is, requires a balance of objective observance and analysis and an appreciation for the past. It’s a delicate balance; it’s very hard to calibrate, especially inheriting sins from the past. Every new executive faces this scenario. It’s managing through the minefield. Ricketts has his job cut out for him AND in the limelight with every blog second-guessing every move.
Cubs Supreme in Baseball World.
by Emelie on Dec 10, 2009 10:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
On the other hand..
I made Pork Chops with a Ginger-Apple-Cherry Compote.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 10, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So how long does the statute of limitations last on the good Derrek Lee deal made in 2004?
I’m just curious. All the good moves Genius Jim has made? Well, you can pretty much count those on one hand.
Hendry has been blessed with one of the biggest payrolls in the game and had nearly two full years of Sam Zell turning the other cheek and letting him do what he wanted to do. Yet this is what we are left with?!?!
There are GMs who operate with a fraction of the payroll that Jim Hendry is blessed with and who manage to run circles around him. His farm system remains dubious and he has devolved into a GM with an extreme addiction to free agency to save his ass. It is really quite pathetic in sum. There is no way you can look at this current roster and the egregious contracts littered throughout and not throw your arms up in rage.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 9:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if a good move cannot be praised
you cannot rip a bad one. its not a hard thing to comprehend
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that the good moves aren't happening anymore.
For several years in the beginning of his tenure, Hendry had some head-scratchers, mixed in with some great moves. For instance, he had a maddening penchant for signing middle relievers to gigantic multi-year deals, and he gave multi-year, multi-million deals to guys like Neifi Perez. But at the same time, he traded for D-Lee and Aramis and Nomar.
As time went on, the good moves (signing Lilly, DeRosa) got less common, and the really obvious bad moves (Nolasco for Pierre, signing Fukudome) started to pile up.
And lately – since the 2007 acquisition of Rich Harden, really – almost every single transaction (exception is getting Jeff Baker in a small deal) has been transparently awful. He’s like a gambler on an 18 month losing streak — the whole hope is to try to dig out from under. I don’t know why the organization lets him keep digging.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 10, 2009 11:42 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
the other problem
is you have decidede that you want to reply to my every post while bypassing all others with an opinoin similar to mine. is there a reason when others have used the exact trade as you, that you jump at my comment and not theirs?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 11:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not picking on you - just making conversation
There must have been something in your posts tonight that’s catching my eye. I honestly hadn’t noticed.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 10, 2009 11:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and im getting tired adn drunker by the minute
three day weekend, so its col
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 11:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely right.
Why isn’t anyone seeing this except most Cubs fans? This team is a sinking ship, and if the Ricketts don’t want to see it sink any further, they need to make some changes—as soon as possible.
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 13, 2009 5:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe because
the ship isn’t really sinking? And that most Cubs fans seem to show all the clinical signs of manic depression?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 13, 2009 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh heck I LOVE LOU relative to BLou's hatred of Hendry
The irony here is that Hendry pulled out all the stops to get Lou and then gave him far more influence than most managers in
personal decisions and yet BLou loves Lou P and HATES Hendry.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 10, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry Jessica, but I don't subscribe to the theory that Genius Jim is simple order taker for Dusty or Lou
Jim Hendry is captain of the ship in his role as GM. He is the person in charge of running the entire baseball operation and setting strategy for winning. It is Lou Piniella who works at the pleasure of Hendry, not vice versa. Does Lou have input? Heck yeah he does. So does every other manager in the game of baseball.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 9:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lou has far more influence than most managers
Do you really think Hendry signed or even went after Soriano and Bradley without literally clearing it from Lou ? OK I give you the GM is perhaps more responsible but for those two moves probably not by a lot. Lou wants people gone such as Barrett , Eyre , Wood, Fox, Cedeno Wuertz , Pie and I think DeRosa and they are gone. I am not saying they all should have been kept I am just saying they are gone as much because of Lou as Hendry. For the record I think Hendry’s allowing both Dusty and Lou to have that much influence on the rosters is his biggest flaw. I am not absolving him of blame but Lou is right in their with him on personal moves.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 10, 2009 9:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Lou culpable? Sure he is
But I simply cannot agree with you that Jim Hendry rolls over on the floor everytime Sweet Lou barks for this or that. If Hendry does indeed do that, then it is even further indictment of how truly awful he is.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry has given both Dusty and Lou far too much influence on the roster decisions
Hendry agreeing to this is a deadly flaw but Lou deserves significant blame for the Soriano, Dome and Bradley contracts as well as forcing Hendry’ s hand into dumping players who might have been useful if kept. Lou has far more influence in a roster than say Girardi or Francona and while again this is Hendry’s fault for basically not learning to just say know, Lou gets blame on these roster moves too.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 10, 2009 10:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you have the actual meeting minutes where Lou tells Genius Jim to dump certain players
Because unless you do then everything stated on the matter is conjecture. I have a very hard time believing that Lou was wild about shedding Mark DeRosa, a player who was arguably team MVP two years running and hugely valuable given his hitting and defensive versatility.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Drew? Is that you?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 10, 2009 10:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The situation re DeRosa was certainly one of innuendo
mainly because DeRosa said he had no idea if Lou if Lou wanted him traded which lead to a lot of speculation given it was a less than a ringing endorsement. However if you remove DeRosa from the list, to you seriously question Lou wanting any of the rest of them gone ? It does kind of hamstring a GM’s ability to trade players for value when a manager makes it so obvious in certain cases how much he loathes and refuses to use a player.
Here is little gem from the summer that I forgot. Lou easily won the annual SI poll of manager players would least like to play for with 26% Ozzie was behind with 21%. I am shocked , shocked that players would not like to play for such a great guy.
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/06/30/lou-piniella-voted-manager-players-would-least-like-to-play-for/
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 10, 2009 10:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the irony
is if Hendry had never signed DeRosa, no one here would care that he traded him. The signing seems to get lost (not by you in particular, this was just a good place to make this comment)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's one of the more maddening aspects - this sudden, rapid decline.
What happened in August of 2007 that turned Jim from an “adequate to above average GM” to the guy we’re seeing now?
The contemporaneous decisions to trade DeRosa and Pie were both nonsensical, and contraindicated. Were we trying to acquire young talent, or divest it?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 10, 2009 11:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
running under a company in financial woes (Trib)
the Cubs made money, but the parent corporation didnt, forcing his hand with many things from contracts being over back loaded to not pulling off a trade at times IMO.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 11:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He'd been backloading contracts for a long time before Zell got there.
And the resources available to Hendry were almost doubled over the course of his tenure.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 10, 2009 11:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
during that time the financial woes were there already
and when dealing with a stockholders meeting, they only want to see red and black, meaning backload to allow for black books. that was pre Zell that the Trib was in trouble
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 11:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong!
…GM’s have full accountability for player selection. If they don’t, why are they the GM to begin with?
When a manager mishandles has bullpen in a particular game and ends up losing at the end, who gets the blame for that? Your right, 100% the manager. Did you ever consider that the manager may have gotten input from his pitching coach before he made a decision? Many times they do, but you never hear of the pitching coach getting any blame for a decision to keep a pitcher in or to yank him.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Dec 11, 2009 10:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, and now Piniella wants Mike Cameron.
That’s exactly what we need, someone who strikes out all the time. I’d rather have Reed Johnson.
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 13, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And...
…if the Cubs get him and he doesn’t do well, there will be plenty on this board who will say Lou is to blame.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Dec 13, 2009 9:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fortunately, you'll be here to remind us that
Lou has no responsibility and it’s all on Jim Hendry.
As for Cameron – I’m divided on him. Initially I liked the idea of Cameron on a short-term deal, but CHONE doesn’t project him well and his age is a concern.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
by DGU on Dec 13, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When it comes to...
…roster selection, absolutely!!!
I’m not jumping for joy about Cameron either, but the Cubs have been put in a situation where they can’t be picky.
One thing that continues to dissappoint me is this; the Cubs haven’t had a legit leadoff hitter since 03, and this has hurt them in the playoffs and against good pitchers in tight games. I know they don’t grow on trees, but it’s still dissappointing.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Dec 13, 2009 10:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm hoping HJ Lee will fix the leadoff problem eventually.
Do you see a leadoff hitter available this off-season worth acquiring?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
by DGU on Dec 13, 2009 10:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs have a leadoff hitter.
His name is Kosuke Fukudome. Why Lou can’t see this is beyond me.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 14, 2009 7:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
♪♫ You have blinders on...Mr. Grinch... ♪♫
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 14, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I seriously doubt that Lou called for DeRosa to be moved.
I just don’t see any evidence of that.
Barrett, Eyre, Wuertz, sure.
Pie…. still pisses me off to much to think about. If Hendry kowtowed to his field manager on that deal, he should have been canned on the spot.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 10, 2009 11:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're right.
I don’t think Piniella’s an idiot (questionable line-ups all throughout this year, maybe), and I also think that there is only one person to blame for the DeRosa trade. Too bad he’s never taken any responsibility (or been held responsible by Cubs management). Thus, the mistakes go on and on and on….
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 13, 2009 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If any GM...
…asks a manager for their input, they will get it every single time.
Beyond that, the GM has final say, and thats why he gets to be the GM. Also, the GM is just not asking his manager for an opinion on a player, he is asking he Asst. GM, and head scouts as well. If the GM does not have good judgement on his own and the ability to take in information and make a good decision, you will have someone who makes a lot of mistakes.
IMO, Hendry lacks good baseball judgement in a variety of areas. When he should be aggressive, he tends to be patient, and when he needs to be patient, he gets too aggressive. The man doesn’t have the instincts, judgment or discipline to be a successful modern day GM.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Dec 11, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Hendry gave Lou too much leeway in choosing the 2009 roster.
That was, as you indicate, HIS (Hendry’s) choice. It failed spectacularly. Now, he has to clean up the mess.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 12, 2009 5:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Instead of stating...
…Hendry gives managers too much leeway in making the rosters, has anyone ever thought to state this a different way:
Maybe, just maybe, Hendry does not have the baseball smarts to know when to disagree with his manager and overrule him. GM’s disagree with their managers on roster selections all the time, thats why they are the GM.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Dec 12, 2009 9:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No
I don’t think anybody’s ever thought about stating it that way. With good reason.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 12, 2009 10:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And...
…what reason would that be?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Dec 12, 2009 11:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If your question mark...
…is meant to ask the question as to whether my statement is true, I think I have made my opinion very clear on this issue. I just continue to be perplexted at the continued pushing off of accountability to; “Hendry gives his managers too much say in roster selections”.
In my world (and most others in baseball) it is the GM’s job to make sure good decisions are being made in this area, and it is solely the GM’s responsibility.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Dec 13, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's not intended to be a pushing off of accountability...
… simply a description of Hendry’s MO. In some years it has worked well, in others not.
There’s no question Hendry will be held accountable for what he does this offseason.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And thus far, he's done nothing this offseason but make the team worse.
Can anyone truly say that our team, as it stands now, is better than 2009’s? I’d say that it’s much worse, and as it stands now the Cubs are no better than a 3rd place team in 2010 unless someone steps in and starts making appropriate changes.
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 13, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's December 13.
How can you judge the offseason on the moves so far?
Which, incidentally, have been good, despite your obsession with Jake Fox.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2009 5:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What moves?
Overpaying for Grabow? Getting rid of Reed Johnson, Harden, and Fox?
It’s not an obsession, it’s standing up for good players. Do you honestly believe that the Cubs are better without him? Do you honestly believe that we got some players for him that are going to impact our team?
My point is, that other teams, including the Yankees, have been doing what they can to make their teams better. You cannot honestly say that this team is better than last year’s as it stands now.
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 13, 2009 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fox was not a good player
he was hardly average. Each time stats have been given to you showing you this you ignore them.
he was a nice guy, but wins you no games
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 5:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not an obsession
Really?
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 13, 2009 5:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Reed Johnson isn't necessarily gone.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 14, 2009 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you think he overpaid for Grabow?
ok
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 14, 2009 8:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he thinks we over paid for everyone
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 14, 2009 8:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again...
…to me the important question is this; is Hendry one who simply believes in giving his managers significant input on player selection, or is it that Hendry doesn’t posses the ability to know when to overrule them?
There is a reason managers manage and GM’s generally manage.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Dec 13, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have a clue what direction this team is going...
Only direction I see is down. We won 83 games last year and have seemingly not much payroll. We have already lost a starter, the only proven closer we had(Though not great!), the best bench bat we had in Fox, and a great backup OF in Reed. We have ever aging core players and a disgruntled RF holding us hostage. Our bullpen is still in shambles(Again I say a bullpen is like a kicker in Football), its only important if you don’t have one. We need a few bench players. Are we gonna tender Fontenot a contract? So as I see it we have done nothing but heavily downgraded a 83 win team.
I’m disgusted with this whole operation. I would rather have a full scale firesale this offseason and start the entire organizational rebuild from the ground up than go into next season with a false sense of hope!
Are division contenders are getting better!
I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
by cubsluver22 on Dec 10, 2009 9:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Very well stated
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 9:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
honest question
who in the division is getting better by enough to be really worried for 2010? Look, I don’t have false expectations for 2010. I really don’t see this was a playoff caliber club right now, but overall, I could see anywhere from 80-90 wins. Wide range, for sure, but who’s gotten better enough to get worried? Brewers? Still a team that needs a lot more pitching, and they added another innings eater in Wolf. The Astros? Still need another starter to really move, and they wasted a lot of money. Reds? Don’t see it. Cardinals?
I’m not saying we’ll fix all our problems, but I think we’re getting a little too worked up on the offseason when the offseason is still in the early phases.
by toonsterwu on Dec 10, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a very slippery slope when you start rationalizing to death the shortcomings of your opponents as means of feeling better about the Cubs
Didn’t we learn that last season? A year ago at this time the Cardinals were being torn to pieces on BCB. So now we are supposed to engage in similar exercise and say to ourselves that Milwaukee only has Fielder, Braun and Gallardo…that that Carpenter and Wainwright are due for a big letdown that Albert might stop being Albert….and that Johnny Cueto and Edwin Volzquez are on the road to being ruined by Dusty?!?!?
Yech. I won’t rationalize away the significant and growing deficiencies of the Cubs via looking for the weaknesses of opponents.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 9:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly didn't tear the Cardinals to pieces last offseason
I had them as 3rd in the division, with a chance to be better depending on Carpenter’s health.
I’m not rationalizing anything. If I was rationalizing, it would be something like, okay, the other teams haven’t done anything, so the Cubs are in a good position. As I said, I don’t see this team as a playoff club. I’m simply saying before we get too worked up over what other teams have signed (as the OP was referencing) that let’s take a moment to realize that the offseason is in it’s early phases.
Please honestly read a comment before you haphazardly respond. This is getting ludicrous.
by toonsterwu on Dec 10, 2009 9:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not ripping you
Actually, you are one of the strongest posters on this site. Just engaging in the debate. And yes, you and I see things via different lens. That’s okay.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough in the spirit of camaraderie
You do make some good points on a lot of issues, and I don’t want to seem like I’m just picking out your posts to respond to. It’s just, your posts are usually the more intriguing ones to answer to. As noted, for the most part, I don’t disagree with anything in your post. Just the Dempster/Fukudome comments you’ve made, but we’ve done that dance enough.
by toonsterwu on Dec 10, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
let me make one addition
I’m not saying we’ll fix all our problems, but I think we’re getting a little too worked up on the NOT COMPLETED offseason when the offseason is still in the early phases.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's certainly fair, and true to an extent.
The problem, of course, is that it’s akin to the argument that the pollyanna patrol on this site makes all season. “It’s only May!” “It’s not even the ASB!” “Can’t we wait until the season is over before we declare the team dead & buried?”
Every day brings the chance for redemption – absolutely true. But it’s equally fair to call out the serious flaws in Hendry’s management of this organization, as it stands today.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 10, 2009 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and as was well pointed out in this thread
a new GM would be handcuffed with this team anyway, so whats better in ths situation the devil you know or the devil you dont know?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When my GM has me painted into a corner...
…I take away the paintbrush.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 10, 2009 11:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but if you are in the corner
and there is nowhere else to paint, is that a fair thing for a new Gm to be given?
throwing a new GM into a fire doesnt make the fire stop on the dime. Also, a new owner should made a decisoin based on what he sees first hand NOT based on what prior owners did/allowed/forced to happen.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 11:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It won't put out the fire -
But (to continue a tortured metaphor), at least the new guy won’t keep throwing backloaded gasoline cans around.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 11, 2009 8:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Early phases? The offseason is 2/3 over as players report in February.
Hendry has had almost two months now, and two different sets of GM meetings, to make some changes. So far, he has gotten rid of Rich Harden, Reed Johnson, and Jake Fox. He overpaid for John Grabow. He still has Milton Bradley (which is his mess). He did get rid of Miles, but he had to get rid of Fox to do it.
Players we have signed or traded for? An unproven, mediocre kid for the bullpen (to go with the other kids) and nothing to improve the horrible offense from last year.
I cringe each time I read the trade rumors as I’m waiting for the next dumb move to be made. What’s next, Derrek Lee for Gary Matthews, Jr.?
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 13, 2009 5:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you need to take math again
2/3’s over is wrong. The season ends late october/early november., so it has been approx 6 weeks. according to your statement that means that the season starts over again in about 3 weeks.
If the Cubs are nothing but a negative in your life maybe you should reconsider following their every move and find a different hobby. NOt being rude or mean, jsut an idea before you have a heart attack over the next time we trade a below average nice guy
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 5:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He got rid of Reed Johnson?
Really? Johnson signed with someone else? I missed that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 14, 2009 7:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
The Brewers already have a star studded Lineup. They have a true #1 in Gallardo. They just added a pitcher that went 13-9 last year with a very respectable era. We had no starter that had 13 wins last year Link . The Brewers have a solid closer and went out and added a veteran setup guy. By everything I’ve read their still in the market for another starter. The Cardinals will contend as they do every year!
I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
by cubsluver22 on Dec 10, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We had no starter that had 13 wins last year Link
because wins are the greatest way to judge a pitcher
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 10, 2009 9:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I love it when people rationalize the value of "Wins"
The fact that the Cubs had not a single pitcher get north of 12 victories is key causation of a highly disppointing 83 win season my friend.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 9:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
why did no starter have 13+ wins?
was it bullpen, was it lack of offense, why BLou? Try and use some foundation to your argument about that please.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's the other way around
Lily, Zambrano, Dempster all pitched well enough to win more than 12 games on a team with above average offense and a closer that didn’t blow like 10 saves. The fact that they didn’t is a reflection of how poorly the team played, not the other way around.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 11, 2009 12:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you left out average defense
that would have gotten more wins for starting pitchers as well.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 11, 2009 12:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That too
In fact, the rotation was really good last year. The rest of the team just sucked.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 11, 2009 12:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Except for Lee...yeah.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 11, 2009 12:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if only we had a team
of of 23 “Fox and Hoff” playres we would have lost but been nice to the fans
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 11, 2009 12:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
throw in injuries that hurt them as well.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 11, 2009 12:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just sayin...
If a poster wants to throw out a seemingly deragatory statement like “all they did was sign a innings eater,” then let’s not put our guys any higher on the throne!
I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
by cubsluver22 on Dec 10, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Wolf
He just came off a season where he had a .257 BABIP. I’m not well-versed enough to discuss the intricacies, but the chances of that being sustainable are fairly slim. I simply don’t believe in ERA and wins as a significant measure (it matters, but not a lot) that represents a pitcher’s pitching level. As other metrics show, Wolf is the same pitcher he’s always been, a guy that depends on his defense.
by toonsterwu on Dec 10, 2009 9:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wolf's not that bad
His defense independent pitching stats (FIP) have him right around a 4.00 ERA the past 3 years.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=976&position=P#advanced
His WAR, which combines park adjusted FIP with innings pitched has him worth roughly 2.2 wins above a replacement level player during that span, and that’s been trending upward.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=976&position=P#value
For reference, a league average player is around 2 WAR, and those guys will generally get 8-9 million per year in free agency. Wolf’s a little above average, and getting 10 million per, so his contract seems to be right on the money.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 11, 2009 12:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say he was bad
I simply said that he was an average innings eater and not the front of the rotation arm that I thought they needed. I think they still need to improve the rotation, or they need to improve the pen and offense some more.
by toonsterwu on Dec 11, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
furthermore
Which of our guys was I putting on a higher throne? My point was, the offseason’s just started. Yes, I’m not getting too worked up with guys the other teams have signed, but my main point was that the offseason has just started.
And last comment on Wolf, innings eaters are valuable. A solid mid-rotation innings eater is needed. I just think they still need another TOR arm to truly contend, or they need to ramp up the bp and improve the offense.
by toonsterwu on Dec 10, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This team as composed...
Looks like a .500 team. Sorry. Maybe you pick up a Sheets and Cameron; maybe not. But as of right now, it looks like a it could be easily a third place team. I do worry about the Brewers, and certainly the Cardinals.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 10, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
good thing we dont start playing games for a few months then, right?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm reading tea leaves...
Much of what ails the Cubs won’t change in 2010. They’ll dabble at the margins, but we’re already been told that it’s pretty much going to be the same team from last season.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 10, 2009 10:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If it's a healthy team...
we’ll be fine.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 10, 2009 10:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+2010
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Forgive me if
I’m showing concern about a bunch of 30-something guys, and an overweight pothead staying healthy.
BLou is really over the top — the Hendry insults, for example — but his point is sound.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 10, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
Then you must really hate Pablo Sandoval who’s 2 inches shorter and 15 pounds heavier than Soto.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 10, 2009 10:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No...
But if he had to spend 140-plus games in a catcher’s mask, I would be.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 10, 2009 10:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And
hits about a hundred points higher than soto
by tripdenten on Dec 11, 2009 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And
Much like BLowhard, I want rock hard evidence of his alleged potsmoking. Multiple links to unreliable newspapers and baseball blogs won’t be nearly enough to sway me. I want the bong with traces of his DNA on it before I believe it ….
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 10, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
???
What? Tongue in cheek, yes?
by Damen Jackson on Dec 10, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No...he wants some of what Soto was smoking...it's for his glaucoma.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 10, 2009 10:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough.
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4287155
Geo certainly admits it.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 10, 2009 11:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're going to take to word of a confessed drug user?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 11, 2009 12:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the ol "i was high when i said i was high, so i was not aware of what i was saying" defense
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 11, 2009 12:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was gonna confess, but then i got high...
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 11, 2009 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
by Villeslgr on Dec 11, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Very valid point
But which team would win the division then?
Cardinals are back to where they were before. Good pitching but only one bat.
Reds, Astros and Pirates probably won’t content.
Brewers have bats but no pitchers.
by ak123 on Dec 10, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
why predict now
when we have not even made it to Mesa yet, and have no clue what team we have or dont have for starters
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Then why predict the team is going to win less than 83 games?
by ak123 on Dec 11, 2009 8:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
when did i predict their won total for 2010?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 11, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't
You see I responded to a post you never made. You chose to respond to what I wrote and I explained why. Problem solved.
by ak123 on Dec 11, 2009 7:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't
You see I responded to a post you never made. You chose to respond to what I wrote and I explained why. Problem solved.
by ak123 on Dec 11, 2009 7:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As upset as we are, we forget something important
These things work in cycles. We had a window to build around the core of players, but that core is getting older. All the Cubs had to do was catch fire in the 2007 or 2008 playoffs and we’re calling Jim Hendry a genius. I’m not a defender of Hendry of Piniella, but I think it’s important to realize this fact. Instead, the Cubs flamed out in the playoffs.
I’m not going to write off 2010 because the future has not happened yet. Realistically, I don’t think the Cubs will contend, but that’s just an offseason prediction. I think if we’re competing for the division mid-season, a good trade will help us make another run at the postseason. It’s easy to forget that we couldn’t keep our starting players on the field, so building a bench and a reliable bullpen are important pieces for the offseason.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Dec 11, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I seriously wonder
how everyone would respond to this if the author wasn’t who it is.
I think BLou toes the line of sanity most times, but can you honestly say he is wrong here? I think people who are killing him on this are just rationalizing the situation, trying to feel good about. Cubsluver22 had it right. If you look at what the Cubs have done so far, it is true they have only gotten worse.
I read above that people don’t remember the good moves, but don’t forget the bad ones. That’s the way it is in any walk of life. Look at his good moves, then compare them to level of devastation of his bad ones. There is no doubt which way the scale tips. I mean, he’s getting exactly what everyone thought he was getting with Bradley. Look at the history of spots. It is filled with the “we can fix him” ego. How many times does that actually work? Now, think about how many times that actually works in the environment the Cubs play in, with a hot headed manager. There are times and situations where you can roll the dice. Why the hell would you roll the dice on a 97 win team?
I also find it interesting how they claim there is such a level of interest for Bradley from other teams. You know that Hendry is willing to take in the ass on this deal. If that’s the case, teams must not be offering a garden hose for him because he’d take it.
Yes, I understand it is still “early”, but the Cubs are half way into their offseason plans, and they haven’t gotten any better. The only thing that is sitting better is Rickett’s wallet because they dumped Miles. Let’s face it, the writing is on the wall. This is definitely the Cardinal’s division to win. Everyone says that they haven’t gotten better either. Well if they do resign Holliday that’s a full year with he and Albert. Which means a an even better Cardinals team.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 10, 2009 9:49 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Winston Churchill helped defeat Hitler and Stalin yet even he lost his job after the war was over
Hence why I have an extraordinarily difficult time understanding how Jim Hendry earns a lifetime of employment for the fact that he has made a handful of quality moves over the years. Derrek Lee was a friggin salary dump on the part of Florida !!! Ditto Aramis Ramirez, Kenny Lofton and Randall Simon out of Pittsburgh !!! The Todd Hundley deal for Mark Grudzielanek and Eric Karros (two players in manager Jim Tracy’s doghouse in LA) was a 100% salary wash !!! Theo Epstein was so disgusted by Nomar Garciaparra’s defense at shortstop that he traded him mid-season of a World Series year in order to get a quality defensive shortstop in Orlando Cabrera !!!!
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 9:57 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Sigh
Does no one else get tired of all this?
Is he traded yet?
by DGU on Dec 10, 2009 10:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I could start a Lou / Scales thread if you want to change the subject.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 10, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
(ducks)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I did win the bet that Bobby Scales would never get 5 more hits in the big leagues
Hey, if its fashionable to rip the shit out of me, then go for it. I could care less. The kool-aid drinkers need to be balanced out on BCB. If that becomes objectionable, then ban me. I’ve been a diehard Cub fan for very many years and am entitled to my opinions on matters.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hell
Even Nostradamus was right every 1000th prediction or so.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 10, 2009 10:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
????
Scales had THIRTY hits last year. What am I missing ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 10, 2009 10:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you were banned under other names
you always come back, so banning means nothing to you.
second, i am not a kool aid drinker, and have ripped where I feel it is deserved. I also will nto discount the other side of my opinion just because it doesnt help my argument, which you continue to do
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Easy Timmy
Don’t go into vapor lock over little old me. Life is too short to have your left ventricle shut down over what somebody said on an anonymous sports message board.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
come again?
i guess my facts above (you know, the comment(s) you continue to reply to), again, mean nothing to you since they do not support your argument.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The body of work produced by Genius Jim in recent years supports all my arguments just fine, thank you very much
TIMMY !!
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
WHARBLEGARBLEAIEHALAHAHWLAH!!!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 10, 2009 10:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Speakin' of wooden legs
Sitting in the bleachers in 1982 (or was it 1983), I actually was two rows above the great Bill Veeck who was taking in the game. Shirt off, drinking a cold one and chain smoking cigarettes….and YES, the wooden leg did have built within an ashtray as was the local folklore. What a great guy. I only wish I could have had a conversation with him.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd have congratulated him for Disco Demolition
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Dec 11, 2009 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
youa re correct
two playoffs in the last three years shows he knows nothing and is a horrible GM
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a question
Hypothetically, if you have a good employee who does good things for several years that improve the team, and then for several years, everything that he seems to do makes the company lose money or get worse in peoples’ eyes, including something that costs the company a lot of money, do you just brush it off and tell him that the sun will come out tomorrow?
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 13, 2009 5:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if i have a guaranteed contract, like in MLB
that would change everything. also in MLB a GREAT hitter is successful 1/3 of the time, in real life that is horrible.
in most of our fields of work on here, we are not sitting in the same room as our competitor with them trying to get us to fail (like the 9 defenders trying to get one batter out).
MLB has the strongest unoin in the nation, which is why such things as a salary cap have not been implemented.
you CANNOT compare (head to head) the real work and baseball. You can say they should just go to work, etc but to compare a work day for me and a work day for anyone in MLB (no matter the level of the position)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 5:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Technically, a GREAT hitter is successful 40-50% of the time...
Being successful only 33% of the time is league average. Sorry, it’s just a pet peeve of mine. Getting a walk is a successful AB. People are still to tightly clung to AVG at the expense of OBP.
But aside from that, your point stands.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2009 8:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
.330 is league average? Oh, I see, you’re including walks.
So you measure success by OBP? I can live with that. Of course, that makes Milton Bradley above league average. In fact, it would have made him the third ranked batter, behind Lee and Rami. Dome would be 4th. Same for SLG and OPS.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously it's more complicated than that...
My point was simply that if you’re going to try to simplify down to a statement like “the great hitters are successful X percent of the time,” you should not do it based only on batting average.
Obviously, OPS, OPS+, and other measures are better than just OBP, as OBP ignores the value of power. My point was simply that OBP is a better metric than AVG.
In reality though, the statement should be “the great hitters are only UNsuccessful 50-60% of the time.”
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and then for several years, everything that he seems to do makes the company lose money or get worse in peoples’ eyes,
Assumes facts not in evidence.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 14, 2009 9:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Entitlement to your opinion is one thing
It doesn’t mean we have to agree with your opinions. I come out and troll sometimes when I don’t want to debate, but it’s not an every day thing for me. I just have yet to find a single positive thing you could say about the Cubs. You’ve already written off 2010. While I have my doubts (stated earlier) the Cubs will contend in 2010, I don’t rule it out because you have to play the season first. People did not consider the Cardinals to be contenders, but they were able to keep up with the Cubs and take over the division thanks to injuries on the Chicago roster. The trades they made put them over the top. If the Cubs get in the position where they’re able to take charge of the division, they’ve got a shot. Just because the Cubs are getting older does not mean they still can’t do it.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
by Ace Venom on Dec 11, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, you most certainly DIDN'T win the "bet" about Scales...
You made that bet in May or June. Scales had 16 hits in September alone, not including any additional hits he had in May or June after you made your bet.
But hey, why let facts get in the way of an argument, right?
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2009 8:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
It’s like a broken record.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 10, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's further this discussion...
Let’s say we do make a deal for Burrell and we in turn scrape up enough to sign a Cameron. We then have a a backup/PH in Burrell.
Then what? We can make up for the loss of Lilly until he returns(that’s guessing he’s not ready for opening day). We lost Harden! We don’t know if Marmol can close and Guzman can stay healthy. Grabow is solid but past that are pen is full of questions. Who backs up 3rd? What kinda bench are we gonna have? What happens if Gorzo/Marshall/ Wells faulter? How do we deal with the injuries?
If we have no money to do anything until we unload MB then how are we gonna address a roster full of question marks? I’m not ledge jumping yet but a question keeps popping into my head and that is…. Is it time to go ahead and start the full fledge overhaul of this organization?
I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
by cubsluver22 on Dec 10, 2009 10:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You can only....
patch a flat tire so many times!
I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
by cubsluver22 on Dec 10, 2009 10:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Great post....and....
You haven’t touched on a critical issue plaguing the lineup….the severe lack of a left-handed hitter to break up all those righties in the middle.
Plus, good ol’ Mike Cameron is a guess hitting hack in his own right. So the plan would be to sandwich Soriano and Cameron together in the 2nd half of the lineup?!?!
Yikes.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess this Cubs organization is in pretty bad shape huh? How long until it's as bad as your college teams and they disband it completely?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 10, 2009 10:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Well played sir
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 10, 2009 10:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re:
Jeff Baker is the backup at 3rd. He was a former 3rd baseman that moved to 2nd because Colorado had Ian Stewart in front of him.
As for a full fledge overhaul, my answer would be no. I let this core play out it’s string and let our kids develop some more.
As for the rotation, it’s clearly an issue right now and Mike Parisi is likely to have a very good chance to win a spot at the start of the year, when Lilly is down. Yes, it’s not pretty right now. I’m hoping that there will be the money to take a cheap veteran gamble or two.
The bench … well, right now, we’ll likely have Sam Fuld as one option. That’s a fine option in regards to the fact that he’s a good defensive OF that can pinch run. We will need a backup shortstop. I can live with someone like Blanco if need be. With the remaining two spots, you’d like to see one power bat, so Burrell may fill a void there. The last spot would, imo, ideally be someone that could also play several positions. Granted, the Cubs would have some flexibility since Jeff Baker can move around. A lefty bat with some pop would be nice.
Speaking of the individual pieces, the bench isn’t in that bad of a shape if we assume Burrell.
by toonsterwu on Dec 10, 2009 10:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What's funny to me is...
…people are freaking out that JH ruined a 97 win team. A team he created. Back to back division champs.
Yeah he had an awful 09. I said that before the season started last year. But at least I waited until spring training concluded before I decided. Give hendry some time. I think he deserves one more chance to redeem himself. What’s so wrong with that?
People say we’re already going to be worse next year? Ha! Addition by subtraction. Marmol is better than Gregg. And the team is simply better of with anyone out there other than Miles/Heilman.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 10, 2009 10:22 PM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Right
This is Hendry’s team. (His mess some would say.) The core is for the most part inked for 2010. He had fielded the most successful Cub teams in many of our lifetimes. Perhaps he is losing his touch a bit. And I think the Zell free-spending might have sent him into some bad habits. But I think he needs to be given this last chance to right the ship.
Think of it this way. If Ricketts had canned Hendry right away, he would have hand-cuffed his first GM in that he would have had to correct all of Hendry’s mishaps. Then, if the 2010 Cubs are to be successful, how could you not argue it was Hendry’s team? That the new GM was just given a free ride.
I think you give the current Cubs team until July. If they are in the running, I’m sure Ricketts will let Hendry acquire another arm. If they come out of the gate poorly and never recover, then you start the rebuilding, and should probably do so with a new GM IMO.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Dec 10, 2009 10:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so if I understand BLou correctly
from his replies to me and others…..
1. do not trust the media, coaches, interviews on tv, or agents
2. do not believe what you read on the iternet, newspaper, books or tv (yes u can read your tv)
3. believe BLou he knows better than the two above groups
4. facts that disprove BLou are not valid unless you have a hard copy of the actual evidence, not a link to the evidence
5. BLou knows all, and is to be trusted over anyone else in MLB, the media, etc, even if they are professionals in their profession and he is not
ok, i think i got it
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 10:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ahh... the Mobius Strip Principle...
Trust BLou —> Don’t believe anything written on a blog —> BLou writes on a blog —> Trust BLou…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 10, 2009 11:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
like the rules of my grandfathers basement
rule #1 grandpa is always right
rule #2 if grandpa is wrong, refer to rule #1
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 11:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's like shootin' fish in a barrel
Good night follks. Viva the Jim Hendry Defense Counsel !!!
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 10, 2009 10:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nighty nite sweet prince.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 10, 2009 10:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
We have to admit Hendry has had back to back bad years. The Milton signing is one of the worst and Dome’s deal is and was bad.
Hendry barely gets a C in my grading.
by Grockcubs on Dec 10, 2009 10:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Once I was riding my bicycle with my mom and brother next to me.
I sneezed, fell, and hit my face on the curb. Had my eye patched for a few weeks. Hurt like hell.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Dec 10, 2009 10:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
damn... couldn't you have posted this 10 minutes earlier?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 10, 2009 11:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just got home. I iz sorry.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Dec 10, 2009 11:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you made all this sensible now
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 11:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wait - I think I remember hearing about this on the news...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 10, 2009 11:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
on the news?
so it cant be true according to BLou
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 10, 2009 11:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
by eths on Dec 10, 2009 11:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Blou is a racist blowhard but...
His anger towards Hendry is not unfounded.
Hendry broke the cardinal rule of a GM: “Let the Manager worry about this season and I’ll worry about next season.”
Hendry thought he could get the team to the world series quickly and once the Tribune Co needed a winner to jack up the price on the team he thought he could buy it.
But as many GMs have learned you can’t buy a world series.
Jim Hendry failed.
Last off season he was moving the deck chairs on the Titanic. Bloated contracts leaving him no room to make real changes so it was left with signing a crazy nut job in hopes he wouldn’t expoled till next year while trading the teams depth to save money.
In 2010 most of the passager (i.e. fans) are in the water hoping for a lifeboat. This team is going no where fast with most of its best players on the down side of their careers and too many players playing out of position.
The Cubs will be lucky to break .500 this season. DLee will be traded along will Lilly (both with expiring contract). Rami will opt out and be gone next year. Leaving a Team with Dempster, Sori, Fukudome, and Z Easting up 50 million Dollars in Payroll.
Because of the crappy long team contracts in 2011 from now the Z, Dome, Sori, and Dumpster will be the best players on our team. How are the Cubs going to be able to bring in talent when those 4 players will be crushing the teams starting rotions, lineup and payroll?
So back to Blou’s frustration, It is warranted.
His long term back loaded contracts have cost the Cubs the 2009 season because he was forced to sell off the teams depth to bring in other missing pieces. His long term contracts have cost us 2010 season because there is no payroll flexibility and thus the team is stagnate and old. His long term contracts have cost us 2011 because nearly 50% of his payroll will be lock up in over the hill, unproductive players when the cubs are in desperate need to reload and rebuild.
GMs on well managed teams always have an eye on next season. Herdry stopped looking forward and has cost this team at least 4 year.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Dec 11, 2009 3:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
GM's can't buy a world series?
What did the Yankees do last season?
Moreover I think it’s hilarious that everyone is predicting the Cubs downfall already. They finished the season 7.5 games out of first place. That was with missing our best hitter for a significant portion of the season and having a beat up starting rotation all season.
I’ve said it so many times before, the downfall of the ’09 Cubs was injuries. Pure and simple.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2009 9:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Yankees didn't buy a World Series.
They bought their way into the playoffs. After that, it’s a crapshoot. The Yankees might have lost the division series to the Twins if the umpiring had been less atrocious.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 11, 2009 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course spending money doesn't guarantee anything.
That goes without saying. But you can’t tell me the Yankees payroll didn’t significantly help their chances last year.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It helped their chances to get into the playoffs, yes.
But once you get there, I repeat, it’s a crapshoot.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 11, 2009 10:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A crapshoot with loaded dice.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2009 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes and no.
If it were, why had the Yankees not won in nine years?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 11, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
…because other big payroll teams were winning instead. 2 by Boston, 1 by Anaheim, ChiSox, Philly, etc…
There is a direct correlation to the money spent and the victories earned. Again I’m not arguing it’s a hard and fast rule, but it’s more often right than wrong.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are the White Sox really a "big payroll" team.
I don’t really think of them that way – more like “mid payroll.” And let’s not ignore those pesky Tampa Bay Rays last year – they almost won it.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And don't forget some of the other WS teams in this decade, some of them winners.
2001 D’backs. 2003 Marlins. 2005 Astros. 2006 Tigers. 2007 Rockies. All low to medium payroll teams.
You can get there without spending huge dollars, IF you spend them wisely and have good management and a little luck.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 11, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh...
…again I’m NOT saying it’s impossible to win a WS without spending a boatload. But that’s not what this thread is about. The Yankees spent a ton of money last offseason and the result was a WS. $$$ leads to wins, which leads to WS titles.
Your list of WS runner ups made me think of another way to put it. How many times in the last 15 years has the WS loser out spent the WS winner? Without doing a little research and giving a quick look at the list, I’d guess maybe 4 (AZ, FL x2, STL).
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2009 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, last 15 years, since the wild card?
Probably so. But again, I contend money can only buy you a ticket to October. Once you get there — you’re pretty much on an equal field with the other seven teams.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 11, 2009 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well I didn't pick the last 15 years for any reason other than...
…it’s the most relevant to what we are talking about and 16 years ago was the strike.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
once the playoffs start
you say all eight are equal?
Doubt vegas agrees…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 11, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You have to admit
That getting the top 3 free agents, which supply you with two more aces for your pitching staff, and a huge impact bat for your line-up (to go with all of the other highest paid players in baseball that happen to be in the same line-up) helped them win the World Series.
And now, they’ve added another potential perennial All-Star to CF.
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 13, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You can buy a division win but not a World Series
Don’t even use Yankees as an example, simple look at the Cubs in 2007 and 2008!
by ak123 on Dec 11, 2009 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs losses had a lot to do with bad managing as well.
Remember Fukudome batting 2nd? Did anyone else scratch their heads when they saw that line-up? I bet the Cubs players did too when they saw it posted.
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 13, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didnt because OBP is whats needed at the top of the order
and guess what, fukudome provides that
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 13, 2009 5:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i actually like Fukudome as a lead off hitter
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 7:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where would you have preferred Kosuke to bat?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 14, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The dismantling of the 08 Cubs was the downfall of the 09 Cubs
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2009 8:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There was NO dismantling of anything
Goodness gracious.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 12, 2009 5:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You live in a world without facts.
The year is over. At some point you have to face up to what happened.
By any standard, this team turned over a substantial percentage of its roster, got rid of several contributors, and it got substantially worse.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 12, 2009 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
Almost every key player from 2008 was on the 2009 team as well. Try again, kiddo.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 12, 2009 10:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is what you do. You make parallel, irrelevant arguments, because you exist without facts.
You rarely address the argument as posted – you come up with strawmen and attribute parallel arguments to the other party.
I never said anything about “key players”, or anything even remotely opposite to “almost every key player from 2008 was on the 2009 team”. Please re-read and address the post that was directed to you. What did I say?
“…this team turned over a substantial percentage of its roster”
“…got rid of several contributors”
“…got substantially worse.”
How much of the 2008 roster was turned over for 2009? DeRosa, Wood, Marquis, Edmonds, Wuertz, Howry, Blanco, Cedeno, Pie, and Ward. That’s 10 players out of 25, or 40% — by any standard, a “substantial percentage of the roster”.
Please note that I’m not making any judgment calls here, or even claiming that any or all of these players should have returned. I’m simply saying that a large percentage of the roster was purged.
Secondly, DeRosa, Wood, and Edmonds were definitely contributors to the 2008 squad. That’s the starting 2B, the starting CF, and the closer – and the #1 and #4 OPS+ for the 2008 Cubs. I’ll even leave Marquis out of the discussion, although he was a “contributor” as a member of the rotation.
Finally, the team got substantially worse. Please also note that my post made no causation argument whatsoever. And in the future, please either try harder, or don’t try at all. No one is falling for the strawman arguments after your glorious 2009.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 12, 2009 11:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course you're making the causation argument
Don’t be so disingenuous.
The reason the Cubs didn’t do as well as everybody hoped last year was not because they didn’t bring back the guys you cited. It’s because of a combination of sub-par seasons and injuries, some of them devastating.
You know as well as I do Edmonds was on his last legs, every pitch could be Wood’s last and DeRosa was primed for a decline. Cutting bait on all of them was the right thing to do.
And I don’t recall a lot of tears about the departures of many of those other guys.
The main group of relevant players (Soriano, Ramirez, Lee, Theriot, Fukudome, Zambrano, Lilly, Dempster, Marmol, etc.) were on this team in 2009 and in 2008.
Instead of wanting to fire everybody and crying incessantly about spilled milk, maybe you should just acknowledge the truth: that teams underachieve all the time. The Cubs certainly weren’t the only ones, nor the first. And they won’t be the last. Grow up.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 13, 2009 1:06 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Again, you are making things up!
Reread both of my posts, and then think about what you’ve actually read— the words on your screen, not the made-up bs coursing around in your mind— and you’ll arrive at the CRUX of your problem- you use strawman arguments in an attempt to change the parameters of the discussion so that you can “score points” or ignore inconvenient facts.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 13, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
again Al explains the facts you have missed
making it a moot point
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you on the same planet as the rest of us?
The Cubs got rid of Mark DeRosa, Kerry Wood, Jason Marquis, and several other key players, and replaced them with guys like Kevin Gregg, Milton Bradley, and Aaron Miles. They turned over 40% of a 97-win team’s roster. I would call that a dismantling. If you want, I can provide you with the definition of dismantling from the dictionary.
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 13, 2009 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
look up below average stat line
and you might see that Fox was just that as a Cub, then once you understand that feel free to explain to others about roster turn over
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 5:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fox being below wasn't a big issue.
Bradley, Soto, Soriano, were a much larger problem.
by TJ11 on Dec 13, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
for 2009 yes you are correct
Fox was a non-factor, and those three were a big reason we did not compete further. So was injuries to Lee, Soto, MB, Rami, etc
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 9:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
BLou is a tool
Bleed Cubbie Blue is better
When he doesn’t post
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on Dec 11, 2009 9:39 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
Sad part is that the reason I come onto BCB is to hear views from different sides that you normally get. I don’t mind that a person is negative about the Cubs. But give me something new already. What’s worse is the BCB’ers that give that douche what he wants, attention.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Very good additions for big Jim
1. DLee
2. Aram
3. Lilly
4. Harden (‘09 only)
5. Garciaparra (didn’t work out, but gave up virtually nothing)
6. Karros and Gruds
7. Grabow/Gorzy
BLou- I’m a natural pessimist when it comes to talking about the Cubs, but you’re way off like many have said here. His ‘09 offseason was horrible, but at least he has given the fans winning seasons and a chance to compete for the playoffs almost every year. Let’s give JH a month or two before writing off this upcoming season, OK?
We're not scaremongering (nightmare of a season continues), this is really happening (Bears are more than done) - Radiohead
by propheteer on Dec 11, 2009 11:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nice idea, not going to happen.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
can I add a few that you forgot
Lofton
Simon
DeRosa (he did sign him, which is the only reason people can complain about him being traded)
Anything for Cedeno
Kendall
Dempster (got him while he was rehabbing his arm, and that has been a good signing)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 11, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Most definitely
I knew I was forgetting a few. You could add Lofton to the “bad moves” as well cause JH didn’t resign him the following year.
We're not scaremongering (nightmare of a season continues), this is really happening (Bears are more than done) - Radiohead
by propheteer on Dec 11, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lofton was not resigned
due to having two five tool CF’s in Patterson and Pie……oh wait, nevermind
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 11, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hitting tool
Being able to hit a breaking ball (or layoff one in the dirt).
We're not scaremongering (nightmare of a season continues), this is really happening (Bears are more than done) - Radiohead
by propheteer on Dec 11, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure Pie was about 18 at that point.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 11, 2009 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
in 2002
Pie was in the Cubs farm system, and being touted as a five tool player.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 11, 2009 9:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In 2002 he was 17 years old and had just been signed.
He played like 50 games in 2002 as a 17 year old.
I severely doubt that the Cubs were making decisions about retaining Kenny Lofton because 17 year old Felix Pie had posted a .560 OPS for the rookie league Mesa Cubs. Or, for that matter, a year later, when 18-year old Felix Pie hit .285-.346-.388 at Peoria. He was many, many years away at that point.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 12, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he was being touted from day 1
same as CPat. My point is both were failed projects.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 12, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How was Pie a failed project?
If the Cardinals traded Rasmus last April, could they forever refer to him as a failed prospect?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 12, 2009 9:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
while a Cub did he succeed or fail?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 1:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Neither.
There is not a significant body of work to make that determination. He didn’t hit a lot in a couple hundred AB. He played greatbsefense and ran the bases well. He hit a ton in his last callup.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 13, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you are correct
hitting 241 is hitting a ton (sarcaem)
please look at his stats and who he compares with (hint the great Steve Whitaker is his best match, which should tell you a thing or two about your argument about Pie)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"In his last callup".
Hit hit .300 / .391 / .450 in his last callup with the Cubs, in September 2008. Obviously, only 13 games, but that’s all you really ever see in a September callup.
And come on, we aren’t going to get into similarity scores for players with less than a full season of work in their career.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 14, 2009 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
does that count as the famous "small sample"
compared to his prior opportunities, and what he has done since then?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 14, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course - that's what I just said.
And we both know that he’s been pretty good since then.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 21, 2009 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Most definitely
I knew I was forgetting a few. You could add Lofton to the “bad moves” as well cause JH didn’t resign him the following year.
We're not scaremongering (nightmare of a season continues), this is really happening (Bears are more than done) - Radiohead
by propheteer on Dec 11, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ahem, Maddux ?
Far from his best or most important move in terms of on field numbers but hard to put a price on how good it was to have him back even as 4/5 starter forced into being a 2/3 starter. Never injured and even on his worst days worth watching. I am always going to cut Hendry a lot of slack for bringing Maddux back. Alas he relied too much on thinking Wood and Prior would be healthy in the same years.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 11, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not only bringing him back
but letting him go when it was clear the Cubs were tanking just to let Greg get another shot somewhere else. This kind of stuff is why players will defend Hendry as a GM who for the most part always did right by them.
"I have the time and hatred but not the knowledge." ~Madison Cub Fan (Aug. 25, 2009)
by Goodie1969 on Dec 11, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good maddux and lou
did not overlap years.
doggie heart attack
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 11, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No Lou would have loved Maddux
He hardly ever walked anyone and Maddux would never have let on if he did not like Lou.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 12, 2009 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if lou pulled mad dog
for howry who loses lead
your blood pressure good?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 12, 2009 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It happened so many times anyway with Hawkins & Farnsworth
and the middle relief in San Diego that I lost track. If I let that blow up my BP I would be dead by now.The one time I came close to losing it was when Farnsworth almost lost the lead in his 300th win in San Francisco. I few 3000 miles so I would have been really, really pissed.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 13, 2009 1:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
cross country doggie
observes baseball history
no going postal
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 13, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dare I say
Edmonds – ex-cardinal or not, that was a nice pick-up.
For 2008, Jim got the lightning in the bottle at least a few times. Fukudome electrified Wrigley (like him or not, he sold the most headbands). Edmonds and Johnson were a great CF tandem.
And for 2009, every move blew up – Trade away DeRosa and watch Ramirez grab his shoulder. Trade away Marquis and watch him win in COL. Sign Miles and see nothing. Trade for Heilman – anyone ever heard of trading a LHP to get a RHP?? – and watch the implosion. Ditto on Gregg. Bradley, see all BCB post for the last 4 days.
So far, I like the moves for 2010. But the Cubs will need lots of rebounds in 2010 to return the playoffs.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 11, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Cubs are that far from rebounding.
Assuming we are much healthier than we were last year, that should make up a big difference between us and the Cards. Getting rid of the Aaron’s and Gregg automatically makes us a better team.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point - Reed Johnson, too.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2009 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
expect you forget
marquis blew up in dos half
i saw that coming
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 11, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Padres are considering tendering
Reed Johnson a deal, so if they are serious, Johnson could be an everyday player there.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 11, 2009 6:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This will quickly be followed by a Reed Johnson T-Shirt night...
San Diego fans fall all over themselves for players like Reed.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 11, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Chicago fans fall over themselves for players like Reed
see Theriot, Ryan
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
by Villeslgr on Dec 11, 2009 8:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
will there be 2000 posts about how letting Reed go ruined this off season?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 11, 2009 8:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Mark DeRosa of 2010
I can hear the whining now. Actually, the whining already has begun. Whining about losing yet another player Hendry acquired.
This really is hysterical
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 12, 2009 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It will only be supremely ironic
when Reed Johnson turns out injured and on the DL for a good chunk of 2010 and people STILL bemoan Hendry’s move.
Never forget, Mike Fontenot hit RHP as well as Mark DeRosa in 2009.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
by DGU on Dec 12, 2009 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You can't move the goalposts.
You and I have no idea what would have happened to DeRosa if he’d remained a Cub in 2009.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 12, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It must be a blast to live in your fantasy world.
If the facts don’t fit your worldview, ignore them forever.
The difference between Reed Johnson 2009 and Mark DeRosa 2008 is substantial, to say the least.
At what point will you come around to the idea that the DeRosa trade, whatever its intention at the time, was a failure? Will we have to wait until Gaub and Archer are out of the organization?
The Cubs had a window of opportunity to win a title, and they traded away their 3rd or 4th best offensive player. It was a terrible decision, that had an unexpectedly bad effect on the 2009 Cubs.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 12, 2009 9:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As long as it sends you into fits of misplaced hysteria,
I’ll never admit to anything.
Like my avatar, BTW? I got it just for you, you know.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 12, 2009 10:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if hes seen the cardinal trinity yet..
hell flip 10 feet when he sees it
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 12, 2009 11:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you still have it?
Frankly, I’d get a kick out of seeing it again myself.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 13, 2009 12:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
*cue church music*
aaaamen
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 13, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to talk facts, then do so.
The facts are Mark DeRosa hit RHP at the same level Mike Fontenot hit RHP in 2009. That means that trading Mark DeRosa can only be considered a failure if you believe his intangibles are worth more than Stevens, Archer, and Gaub.
Now, RHP is only one side of the story, granted. So, we have to look at the player brought in to be Fontenot’s platoon mate. Aaron Miles came nowhere near hitting LHP as well as Mark DeRosa. Partially that’s a sample size issue since Lou wouldn’t used Miles against LHP, despite Miles’ historical splits. But, yes, it is on Hendry to correct the roster even if the manager isn’t capable of playing players in the right roles. Fortunately, this problem was one Jim Hendry corrected as soon as he could, acquiring Jeff Baker as soon as Baker was healthy enough to play on a big league club.
So, by the end of 2009, Jim Hendry had two 2Bs capable of equally Mark DeRosa’s production for a fraction of the cost, as well as the three pitching prospects. Earlier you promised to praise Jim Hendry when he does something that helps the club. Isn’t it helping the club to have the same production for less money, plus three pitching prospects, and in players who we continue to have as low-cost assets?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
by DGU on Dec 12, 2009 11:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There are quite a few things wrong with this line of thinking.
First off, the only reasons that Fontenot’s performance against RHP was remotely similar to DeRosa’s are because he’s a LHB, while DeRosa is a RHB (and has always been substantially better vs. LHP – vice versa for Fontenot), and (more importantly), DeRosa was injured in STL and couldn’t hit thereafter.
We have no idea what would have happened in alternate 2009 if DeRosa is on the Cubs. Maybe he gets hit by a bus and dies. Maybe he wins the triple crown. Maybe he suffers the same injury because of some underlying condition. More likely, given the opportunity to reset the season, he produces generall in line with his predictions based upon his prior performance as a Cub. Destroying lefties, slightly below league average against right-handers.
But even if he had exactly the same season that he did for CLE and STL, suffered the same injury, and had the same second-half tank job, you still can’t ignore that DeRosa’s total line included a 142 OPS+ against lefties, while Baker was only a 102, and Fontenot was absolutely miserable.
The team would have been better off with DeRosa, especially against left-handers. And, as in 2008, Fontenot could spell DeRosa against the occasional RHP. If it ain’t broke….
For 2010, I’m very happy that we acquired Jeff Baker. It was a good deal, it obviously improved the 2009 Cubs — it was the kind of move Hendry should be trying to replicate. I also think that trade could have and should have been made even with Mark DeRosa on the team – especially after Ramirez went down.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 12, 2009 11:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So, are you going to talk facts or are you going to live in the land of hypotheticals?
Who cares why Mike Fontenot hits RHP better – he just does. At the end of 2008, Fontenot had a better triple-slash line than Mark DeRosa and he projected better. Those are facts. Mike Fontenot was going to cost less than 10% what Mark DeRosa did. Mark DeRosa had one year left on his contract and was in demand in the market. That’s not hypothetical. It’s factual.
You tell me what the better move is. Do you play the player who projects better and is cheaper, liquedating the veteran asset, turning him into the gold of the baseball trading world – pitching prospects – or do you keep the guy who’s your guy – they guy you believed in, who you were mocked for believing in, and who paid you back in spades?
In 2009 we had 5000 PAs against RHP and 1250 against LHP. Is DeRosa’s bat v. LHP worth the cost of several M, of holding back a young 2B who your manager likes, and of losing the the three young pitchers?
Even then, let’s look ask whether Jim Hendry was prepared to replace DeRosa’s bat v. LHP, because the hiring of Aaron Miles looks like he wasn’t. But that’s making the scope of this too small. All the talk about LHedness was misunderstood by some. They didn’t catch that Lou was talking mostly about pitchers establishing an outside strike which particularly frustrated Derrek Lee. Lou just wanted bodies in that LH batter’s box. So, what Jim Hendry recognized was the need to maintain roster balance by getting LHed w/o getting too LHed in the splits. After all, the 2008 club did equally well at hitting LHP and RHP. So, Hendry balanced the loss of DeRosa’s RH bat with three switch-hitters whose splits worked like RH bats – Milton Bradley, chief among them.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
by DGU on Dec 13, 2009 12:18 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He knows everything about everything, DGU
On a board where there are some world-class imbeciles, D98 is in a class by himself.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 13, 2009 12:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm up for giving D98 an opportunity to prove his quality.
He claims to be willing to be Jim Hendry’s biggest cheerleader when shown that Hendry has helped the club. Well, true or false, the Cubs are in a better position now with Stevens, Archer, and Gaub than with DeRosa going to free agency? True or false, the 2009 DeRosa, had he been a Cub, would not have been enough for us to overtake the Cardinals.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
by DGU on Dec 13, 2009 7:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For 2009, we were worse off. For the future, insignificantly better.
My guess is that I simply don’t value minor league bullpen arms as highly as you do. At the same time, I put a far higher premium on building for the 2009 season— I don’t think last year was an appropriate time to jettison a top 4 offensive contributor.
Put simply— while the team is clearly a little bit better off for having the three minor league relievers, I don’t think it was nearly worth the loss of 2009 production, or worth the disruption to the core group of 2008 contributors. There is a reason that the best teams aren’t dumping 40 percent of their roster every year.
That said, I would definitely have used fontenot more in 09 than he had been used in 2008— derosas versatility made that pretty simple.
Put
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 13, 2009 9:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In addition, I'd rethink your allies I this little discussion.
I’ve obviously disagreed with you (and probably everyone else on this board) from time to time— but I certainly respect your baseball acumen.
For instance, you were definitely right about Lee having more good years in the tank and not being another Dale Murphy-rate decline—- and I will continue to admit that I was wrong about that last offseason. (not that pursuing teixera would have been a bad thing.)
that said, if I were to find myself in an argument with NBF standing behind me and chiming in…. Well, I’d be more comfortable going it alone. He’s you polar opposite in terms of cogent analysis, willingness to discuss in good faith, and ad hominem attacks.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 13, 2009 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have allies
because this isn’t a war. It’s a discussion group, where I can learn about the Cubs through conversations, sometimes shallow sometimes deep, sometimes pointed, sometimes bubbly.
For me, at least, keeping that in mind that there’s nothing at stake here and no tallies of who’s right and who’s wrong being kept, frees the BCB experience to be simply enjoyable. I do hate to get the sense that someone else isn’t enjoying himself.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
by DGU on Dec 13, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
to play devils advocate
had we kept Hamilton, a heroine and alcohol addict, and he was not able to get clean for whatever reason, would you be complaining about the pick? of course not, since the majority of us here likely would even know his name. this one pick is like picking the fly shit out of the pepper.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In that case, he would have been Tampa's problem.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 14, 2009 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
how do you figure?
since we would have picked him and kept him according to what i was saying hypothetically. Try reading again
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 14, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In the Rule 5 draft, you can always return the player.
If the Cubs had picked Hamilton, and he’d fallen off the wagon during the first year, he would have been Tampa’s problem.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 21, 2009 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We have to decide whether we're judging Hendry
based on what he could have known at the time he made the decision or if we’re judging him based on hindsight.
If it’s the latter, it’s a simple task to look at Jeff Baker’s production rivalling DeRosa’s in terms of WAR and Fontenot’s RH splits matching DeRosa’s RH splits and say – we weren’t really worse off in any impactful sense.
If it’s the former, you look back to the projections and the desire to get LHed and the desire to play a younger, cheaper player and Hendry’s decision made sense. The decision he botched was the RH platoon partner for Fontenot, but he did correct that quickly.
The problem from your perspective is that you wanted to up Fontenot’s playing time while holding on to DeRosa. That just doesn’t strike me as realistic. Fontenot was fairly tapped out in playing time in ‘08 in that role. To get more playing time, he’d need to become a fairly full platoon player, which was not likely to sit well with Mark DeRosa in his contract year.
You’re also caught up on viewing the trade of DeRosa as a move that couldn’t help us “win now,” which is not how I see it at all. I see trading DeRosa as liquedating an asset into the trading market’s equivelant of cash money, pitching prospects. Stevens, Archer, and Gaub could be held or JH could turn around and trade them at the trading deadline if there was a piece that could fill our needs. But there was no such piece. So, we still have them, and recently fangraphs put Gaub as a #10 prospect in the Cubs’ system.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
by DGU on Dec 13, 2009 10:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
to add to this
to review it in hindsight, you have to wait and see what kind of careers the young arms have with us or what they bring us in a trade.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 10:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's all true, of course
But remember, this guy thinks my avatar is there to irritate him and only him. (It was a “gift” from another poster, and I thought it was pretty funny.)
I wouldn’t be surprised if he is one of those who complained about signing Grabow because Gaub can do the same thing. Well, how did the Cubs get Gaub? Duh …
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 13, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your Avatar is kind of offensive so is that cardinal thing above.
I am about as unPC as you can get, but your pic is probably pretty bothersome to people who embrace the Christian faith.
i understand you are probably just mocking the ones who put DeRosa on such a high level. But I am guessing if people where doing that to whatever religion you are or Obama or something you would have something to say about it.
by TJ11 on Dec 13, 2009 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
i am christian
i really could care less
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 13, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am just stating my opinion.
I am not one of those far lefties who believes everyone has free speech as long as it agrees with me.
If other Christians don’t have an issue with it, that’s fine. I just think its weird to look at.
I just wonder why in society it is OK to mess with that, but not others. Many Muslims would freak out if anything was done like that to an Islamic picture. Watch what happens whenever a comic in a newspaper does it. There have been boycots.
Just sayin’
by TJ11 on Dec 13, 2009 10:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i respect your opinion on it
and was just stating mine as well, nothing more. I am not saying either of us is right or wrong for it
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 11:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I respect your opinion, TJ11
And I can understand your complaint.
I’m about as far right as they come, and take faith seriously, but I don’t find these offensive.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 13, 2009 11:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wow...does Obama post here????
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 13, 2009 9:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe hes crawdad!
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 13, 2009 9:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
...and a Christian
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 13, 2009 11:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why are you even here?
You add nothing to any discussion you participate in, other than calling other posters names and repeatedly changing the parameters with strawman arguments. DGU and I can handle this discussion by ourselves—- you are not in your element.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 13, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I will not tolerate namecalling by either one of you.
If you don’t want to discuss baseball with NBF because you don’t like his posts, just stay away.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Al, with all due respect--
I haven’t called NBF any names. I’ve certainly received a few, and I’ve called him out for ignoring facts and making stuff up—I think that goes with the territory on any open baseball discussion.
I’m also not engaging him in discussion. He’s chiming in after my posts, calling me an idiot with no brain I my head, and misstating what I post to make strawman arguments.
That said, I’ll be happy to walk away.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 13, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I did mention both of you.
He’s certainly not adding to any discussion between you.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 13, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rec
Good point as always. These guys are pinheads.
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 13, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The bitching will start when his is replaced by a worse player
See Aaron Miles for DeRosa.
As usual, you are hysterical. You never see the big picture.
by TJ11 on Dec 13, 2009 8:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You know, my response is nowhere near where it needs to be to make sense.
A weird little post after a pissing match, is all it looks like….
I stand by the post, I just need to watch where it goes, I guess.
by TJ11 on Dec 13, 2009 8:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i like that you and others have decided
what Hendry will do before Hendry has done it
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 13, 2009 9:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 12, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What position are the Padres considering him for?
Because – and I say this as someone who has a high regard for Reed Johnson – if they put him in that centerfield for 140+ games, he will more than likely get injured or at least wear out badly.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 14, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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