Non-Tender Thread: Cubs & Others
by DGU on Dec 12, 2009 4:10 PM CST
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PrintThe Cubs are tendering contracts to Carlos Marmol, Ryan Theriot, Jeff Baker, Angel Guzman, Sean Marshall, Koyie Hill, Tom Gorzelanny, and Mike Fontenot. Neal Cotts is non-tendered, but will be offered a minor league contract. It's unknown if he'll accept.
So far, among the interesting non-tenders for the Cubs are Kelly Johnson, Chien-Ming Wang, and Scott Olsen. Ryan Church was removed earlier when Rafael Soriano accepted arbitration.
So far, one interesting question to ask - assuming the roster holds room for only one, would you rather have Mike Fontenot or Kelly Johnson. It's possible later tonight, we'll be asking the same question with regards to Koyie Hill and Dioner Navarro.
Oakland would apparently rather have Jake Fox than Jack Cust, but maybe now that Cust will be cheaper (than he was), would we rather have Cust?
When we know the full list, I'll include a poll.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Jonny Gomes is let go by the Reds.
And he might make an excellent platoon partner for Fukudome.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
kills LHP
Also Garrett Atkins. better option as 1B back up to Lee and can play a decent 3B
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Dec 12, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
I don't expect Atkins to be available
for a reasonable price for the Cubs. Someone will pay him to start.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
But platooning in RF, at Wrigley, would be a horrible event to witness. Gomes = bad at defensive baseball
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Dec 12, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
yep, unless a rangy CF like Gardner
is acquired, any OF config. w/ Soriano and without Dome would be circus-like
Projections for Johnson v. Fontenot
KJ .274/.354/.445
MF .273/.343/.415
In other words, if you go by the projections, Kelly Johnson is the best 2B on the free agent market. On the other hand, the Braves have just chosen Martin Prado over KJ for a reason.
The other reason KJ makes for an interesting choice for the Cubs is that he had good range in LF a few years back. If we can’t clear enough money from MB, I’d argue KJ makes more sense as a CF option than Rick Ankiel.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Defense
I forgot to mention that Mike Fontenot rates much better at 2B by UZR than KJ.
KJ: -.2 last year; -7.4 career
MF: 5.5 last year; 10.4 career
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Never would have thought that.
Have the pretty much said that Baker is the first RH bat off the bench and Fonty is the first LH?
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Dec 12, 2009 4:50 PM CST up reply actions
I think they're close substitutes
It doesn’t make sense to have both on the squad. Except…KJ in CF? Intriguing.
Besides KJ’s range at second, his arm is a problem since the injury. Career, he’s actually been slightly better against LHP. In other words, there’s no benefit of a platoon.
Put in Fonty against righties and Baker against lefties, and you could easily exceed Johnson’s production. I still wish the Cubs could come up with a better solution at 2B.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
I think the thing about 2Bs right now
is that there are only a handful in what we could consider upper tiers and a lot of options that have “names” who basically project the same way Baker and Fontenot do.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
The case for Ryan Church
Ryan Church is projected for a .271/.342/.424 line. His defense in RF is excellent: 19.4 last year. In CF, he’s stretched, running -3.5 on his career. Contrast this to Rick Ankiel, projected for a .253/.310/.453 line with -9.4 career CF UZR.
I might actually consider that the Cubs’ best CF off-season plan would be to sign Church and let him, Fuld, and Colvin fight for playing time. If no one stands out, you can play Church in the Friendly Confines and Fuld in larger away fields. Add in Rocco Baldelli, letting Baldelli play as much more beyond platoon player as he can and you might end up with good production for very little cost.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Baldelli > Reed Johnson?
I’m not sure who’s the bigger injury risk, who’s the better defender in RF (if needed), and who is better able to play on an irregular basis. Plus, who will command more $$ this year?
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
Add Brian N. Anderson to the RH CF options
non-tendered by the Sox…
I figure you want good defense from both RF and CF in the RH OF – and otherwise, you might as well just bargain hunt.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I'd be very interested in Church,
and probably Wang, as long as I was confident that he’d be back next season, and I’d at least get first dibs on his services in 2011.
It’s a coin flip on Johnson. On paper, he looks like a low risk/high reward signing, but his regression is almost Giles-esque, and the Cubs seem to want to try and get something out of Fontenot.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 13, 2009 8:58 AM CST up reply actions
But Johnson had a wrist injury last year
If that’s better, there’s no reason to think he will be quite as bad this year.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
I like Kelly...
And personally, I would have non-tendered Fontenot, and signed Johnson. It’s just that I don’t see the Cubs having that kind of interest.
If you’re asking me, were I the Cubs GM, I’d be stalking Church, Johnson, Capps, and Navarro. However, I expect Hendry to chase his tail trying to bring Wang to Chicago, maybe Carrasco — and possibly Capps. But who knows, maybe I’m wrong.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 13, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions
I'd rather have Hill.
He already knows the pitching staff and did a good job throwing out runners last year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
What do you think of Koyie's hitting?
There were three months last year, where he hit really well and three where he was horrid. Do you think he can put it together and be a consistent useful bat as well as a good receiver?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
wow, he was intentionally walked 6 times in the 2nd half
was soriano batting behind him?
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 12, 2009 5:13 PM CST up reply actions
I think Hill was exposed at the plate by playing too much.
He shouldn’t have to play as much in 2010.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It honestly scare the hell out of me..
that you’d prefer Hill to Navarro as a backup.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 13, 2009 8:53 AM CST up reply actions
Why?
Navarro can’t hit, and he’s supposedly got some attitude problems.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And Hill can?
Seriously Al, Navarro on his worst day is a better hitter than Koyie Hill.
Let me share a thought with you. This is what’s wrong with the Cubs, that damn good enough mentality. Hill is a great organizational guy, and I respect that, and if you have to go into the season with him on the 25-man roster, then fine. But you can’t count on him to hit above the Mendoza line, and you know it.
Navarro is out there, and has hit very well in the NL. Why not at the very least sign him, see if you can fix his issues, then build up his value enough to deal him at the deadline for something useful? In the meantime, he’s actually talented enough to help push Soto a bit. All it cost the Cubs is cash, and relatively speaking, not a lot. Worst case, he’ll be in Chicago for the season, and is certain to be a more productive bat than Hill.
That’s how a smart organization uses their resources. The Cubs on the other hand will pass out at-bat to Bobby Scales like candy over guys who might have a future with the team, resign the $6 dollar man Chad Fox a trillion times, and keep Koyie Hill on the roster, not even allowing a kid to try and fill that void.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 13, 2009 9:10 AM CST up reply actions
Criminy.
Koyie HIll is a backup catcher. Last year he had to play far more than he should have due to injuries. Playing 35 or so games a year, I don’t have a problem with that.
Navarro, meanwhile, is likely due a pay increase, sucked last year, and has attitude problems. Why would you want a guy like that?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So.
- and I’ll put aside the question of how a non-tender is “due” a pay increase - the Cubs should forget signing any players who are coming off down years, or have perceived attitude problem? Interesting, given that further down in this thread you’re debating the merits of signing Scott Olsen.
I might be interested in a guy like that because I can buy low, then sell high. It’s pretty much that simple.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 13, 2009 9:20 AM CST up reply actions
I dunno.
I just think the Cubs have other needs than a catcher, which is why I suggested Olsen and/or Carrasco.
Chien-Ming Wang? Now there’s a guy you might be able to buy low, sell high on.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
a back up catcher
should be able to handle the staff from time to time and ANY offense from him is a bonus. I agree Koyie is just fine as out back up
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
to build his value
you have to play him more than Soto, making him the starter and Soto the back up. Me no likey
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I doubt that...
I’d imagine that you’d simply need to provide enough at-bats to show that he could sustain an OPS above .700, but you can believe different if you like.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 13, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions
back up catchers are not in great demand at the trade deadline
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Timmie...
I don’t think you know what you think you know.
It’s a moot point now, as I was told that the Rays cut a deal with him for 2.1 million. Smart move, even as hopefully they continue to explore a trade. Navarro has been all over the place the last few seasons, but continues to have upside, as indicated by the deal, and his 2008 All-Star selection. Any indication that last year was just a really bad year, and his value is more indicative of a starting catcher, and an upgrade for many clubs. Just because the Cubs might choose to use him as a backup, doesn’t mean that other teams would see him that way.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 13, 2009 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
if we sign him it would have been to back up Soto
and to think that a back up catcher would have much value for a future trade would not have been a reason to sign him. we have needs, and signing someone with the hopes to trade them later is not a smart way to build a team,
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
It's not as if he is a good hitter with more rest.
He is just not a good hitter. He is fine as a backup as he is good defensively, but they either need Soto to regain his rookie form or another catcher.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 14, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
So it was to get to the pitcher
Makes sense. Still a lot of walks for a back up catcher who is just meh at the plate. He’s not Miles but he’s not much better
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
what hitting?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 14, 2009 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
Question must be asked:
No love for non-tender Wang?
My work here is done.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Wang's a player
I figure I can’t comment on very well, because I have no idea what his health records are showing.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
There is a perfect player to replace Fox
I think this player would a great bat off the bench, and his name……
Jack Cust.
I think he was replaced by something, but who, or who replaced him?
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
Anyone for Alfredo Amezaga
A super-ut.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
I was afraid that if I brought up Amezaga
it would draw out the rabid Andres Blanco fan club.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
And they are a scrappy bunch aint they.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
HE WAS REPLACED BY THE GREATEST CAREER PINCH HITTER
EVER
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 12, 2009 6:20 PM CST up reply actions
Fontenot
The only contract tender that I’m a little surprised about is Fontenot. This probably means they want a lefthanded hitting infielder and that Castro won’t be starting the season on the 25-man roster.
So much for the flood of non-tender talent out there
Maybe Milton Bradley’s value just went up a millimeter?
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Dec 12, 2009 11:14 PM CST reply actions
Anthony Reyes - old Cards' up-and-comer
got non-tendered. Matt Capps, too. Those surprised me.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
DJ Carrasco.
Was a fairly effective middle reliever for the White Sox. Probably pitched more than he should have. Made only $440,000 in 2009 — even in arb, isn’t likely to make more than twice that.
Could be a useful veteran pickup for the bullpen.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Trib article says he prefers to start
If he’s willing to work in the same role (long relief / spot starts), I would absolutely be in favor of signing him.
What do people think of Scott Olsen?
He was pretty bad last year. But he’s only 26. And he’s lefthanded. And he’s from Crystal Lake.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
they don't think much of him!
from what i recall, Olsen isn’t a very popular guy in the clubhouse and has had numerous altercations with teammates over the years. He also managed to get tasered while being arrested for a DUI while a member of the Marlins. If you are in the camp that the Cubs can’t have Milton Bradley on the team for “chemistry” reasons, then you want no part of Scott Olsen.
FWIW, I suspect that Ryan Church has bounced around the last few years in part because he isn’t considered the most pleasant guy to be around
by circuitclout on Dec 13, 2009 9:59 AM CST up reply actions
Jeez....what's with all these "head" problems?
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 13, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
Well, that's kind of what I've heard, too.
And that’s why I started this part of the discussion.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'd heard that Church may have been a little too preachy
about his faith.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
You may be referring to what happened in Washington
He asked his team chaplain about his Jewish girlfriend, and got an answer that others took to be exclusionary. It wasn’t Church’s statement, it was him reporting what the chaplain said, but then it became an issue. The way I look at it, Church was the guy with the Jewish girlfriend, so he was hardly the “my-faith-only” type, at least at that time.
That said, he could be a good guy or bad guy in the clubhouse, entirely aside from that incident. I don’t know.
The bigger issue is his lack of full recovery from concussions. Over the last couple of years, he couldn’t be relied upon to play every day. Plus his defense really doesn’t play that well in CF.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
Thanks for clarifying
the cloudy WSH situation for me.
I agree his defense isn’t that good for CF – but it is better than Dome’s and Ankiel’s – so that’s something.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Moot:
Nationals To Sign Scott Olsen
By Zach Links [December 13 at 6:53pm CST]
One day after being non-tendered by the club, Scott Olsen has agreed to a one-year deal with the Nationals, reports Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com.
More Jerks!
If you spread the jerkiness out amongst a host of players then maybe it wouldn’t affect the team as a whole as much as just having one jerk. My theory is that you need at least 4 jerks so that the jerks can simply annoy each other while playing a 4 person card game, like hearts, and leave the rest of the team alone. So is anyone else on the team already a jerk? Or do we need to sign Olsen, Church and another jerk to play hearts with Milton?
Seems like no one here likes having Ryan Theriot as our SS, and I hear Orlando Cabrera is a jerk. Sounds like a perfect fit…
Capps would be a good setup man.
And an insurance closer if Marmol has problems finding the plate.
Capps would be a good signing.
He could be an 8th inning guy, and has closing experience in case Marmol fails or gets hurt.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
i'd have a hard time believing
that he isn’t hurt given how bad he was last year after 3 years of being a very effective reliever.
by circuitclout on Dec 13, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
capps or marmol?
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 13, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
he had a .380 BABIP this year
that might have had something to do with it
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 13, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
not all bad luck
capps was really good at leaving the ball over the middle of the plate this year.
by circuitclout on Dec 13, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
A non-issue
Marmol is the closer until he proves in the regular season he isn’t. Capps would not be brought in to compete for the closer’s job like Gregg was last season. He would be brought in to set up for Marmol, and be the emergency closer if Marmol is unavailable or loses it.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 14, 2009 5:13 PM CST up reply actions
bullpen
I have a hard time believing that Hendry isn’t going to add one legitimate, veteran arm to the pen. While there are some intriguing arms in Caridad, Berg, Stevens and others, the pen needs some more experience. Guzman is a year removed from being debated as to whether or not he’d be let go (IIRC he was out of options going into 2009). Marmol had some major hiccups, and there needs to be a fallback if he fails as closer. The pen as currently constituted could very underrated but it could also be a big weakness and if this team is expected to compete, you can’t go into the season with that question mark.
I can't believe y'all aren't as worried as I am that..
Cotts won’t accept the minor league contract and we’ll lose him!!!!!
by doofus cubs guy on Dec 13, 2009 12:35 PM CST reply actions
OH NOEZZ!!!!
LULZ
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
Why was Mike Fontenot tendered?
I just don’t get that one. We MUST keep a 30 year old minor league journeyman who already had his lightning in a bottle major league moment?!?! Good grief.
Matt Capps is an interesting name. But I have to believe he is damaged goods. Still, it is worth a full investigation.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
I just don’t get that one. We MUST keep a 30 year old minor league journeyman who already had his lightning in a bottle major league moment?!?! Good grief.
with miles traded, there would be a distinct lack of scrap on cubs team if fontenot was non tendered
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 13, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions
1 just aint enough these days
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 13, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
does Baker count as scrappy?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
no
he was born in a place called bad kissingen for crying out loud!
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 13, 2009 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
Can't believe I agree with Blou but
Why the hell is it necessary that Fontenot come back?
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 13, 2009 4:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
im not sure actually
i personally dont think they should have, players like him are a dime a dozen
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 13, 2009 5:27 PM CST up reply actions
+1
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I'm willing to risk it...
Not the best use of the Cubs funds.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 13, 2009 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
I'm willing to defer to the Cubs management on Fontenot
after all, he’s at least seeing the projection systems spit out decent numbers on him. So if Lou and the Cubs’ scouts think he can be useful, I’d just as soon have Fontenot around to backup or even somewhat platoon with Baker, than pay a lot more for one of the free agent 2Bs. There’s just not enough in the free agent 2Bs for me to make it worth it.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
i can agree
no reason to retain Font IMHO
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
damn straight
no one has ever bounced back from a poor offensive season, ever. after trading aaron miles the smartest thing the Cubs could have done was non-tender fontenot and start from scratch at 2B. it’s not like fontenot has any defensive value at 2B. the cubs could save upwards of 1/2 a million dollars by using andres blanco, tony thomas, darwin barney or nate spears at 2B next year and all those guys are offensive juggernauts.
by circuitclout on Dec 13, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
Sarcasm Font?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Must be the Sammy Sosa
trade effect. The Cubs don’t want anyone to think the trade was all bad.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 13, 2009 7:58 PM CST up reply actions
I have wondered about this.
Censorship of anything, at any time, in any place, on whatever pretense, has always been and will always be the last resort of the boob and the bigot.
—Eugene O’Neill
by 14theofleury on Dec 14, 2009 7:25 AM CST up reply actions
Matt Capps and Chien-Ming Wang stand out to me
A couple others, I have some interest in.
On Capps – It’s Grabow/Guzman setting up right now. Not exactly an inspiring combo to me. He had an unlucky season. Certainly, he’s not a dominant late inning arm, but if the price is right, I’d like to add some more help.
On Wang – Talk is he may be looking at 1 mil or 2 mil with incentives. That’s just ridiculously low for a guy who most expect will be ready to go early in the year. Even if he isn’t, that’s a cheap gamble and our rotation is iffy right now, and we don’t have the money to get other people. I’ve always wondered what would’ve happened this year if the Yankees didn’t screw up his Lisfranc injury. He was showing some signs prior to the arm injury. That said, I doubt we really have a shot on this one. I think the Dodgers would be the favorites, even if they haven’t acknowledged they are in on Wang yet.
Chances are good that Capps is damaged goods
Wang? He has been a total mess for 2 seasons. No thanks.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
If he's damaged goods, then
I’d pass as well.
As for Wang, fluke injury two years ago with the Lisfranc. Yankees screwed him up by telling him not to rehab, and the heavy speculation/talk was that the Yankees orders to not rehab his body screwed him up.
Considering the money the Cubs have to work with, I don’t see any other pitcher out there that has the potential to do what Wang can … at the price that Wang might come at. Prior to the arm problems last year, he was zipping his trademark heavy sinker with a sharp slider (Blue Jays game). He was basically back to form.
That said, I really don’t think the Cubs will land him. If Torre doesn’t pick him up, I’ll be surprised. I could see almost every single team in the league inquire – he makes sense for the Red Sox (looking for a 5th starter), he makes sense for the Mets (cheap veteran), he makes sense for the Phillies (may cut the cord on Blanton, and Wang might be cheaper and better), he makes sense for the Cardinals, Brewers, and so forth.
Supply and Demand
If every team is likely to be interested in Wang, it is unlikely that he is going to come at a bargain basement price. There are plenty of pitchers that might be had on an affordable one or two year deal that have the same potential as Wang and weren’t nearly as bad last year.
Erik Bedard, Paul Byrd, Jose Contreras
Doug Davis, Justin Duchsherer, Mike Hampton
Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Brett Myers
Ben Sheets, John Smoltz
by circuitclout on Dec 14, 2009 9:10 AM CST up reply actions
Bruce Miles says
Capps is also interested in playing for the Cubs, but the Cubs are waiting to see what his market value sets against.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I'm not sure what he means by..
… “where his market value settles”, as Bruce writes. Will he get that many other offers?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
In short...
Yes. I’d be surprised if there weren’t at least 6-8 teams trying to get in on this.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 14, 2009 7:33 AM CST up reply actions
The Market
So, Halladay goes to the Phils, Cl. Lee to the M’s, and Lackey to the Red Sox. With Figgins signed, Scutaro signed, Wolf signed, Pettite signed, and Harden signed, we’re seeing a lot of the top names gone – except in the OF market. The OF market hasn’t really moved. At this point, then, you have to wonder if it makes more sense to Jim Hendry to wait on Bradley until that market does move. If Bay really does get five years, someone’s going to look at Holliday now expecting a 6th year (or more) and say Bradley on two isn’t so bad. How does this relate to the non-tender market? Well, the OFs non-tendered aren’t very strong either – so, despite all the hand-wringing about Hendry not getting this done at the winter meetings, I think he’s at least not in a worse position, and perhaps in a slightly better position. I have a hankering, though, that we’re waiting on the Lowell injury check.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Wasn't there talk by the Braves of moving Johnson to CF?
I don’t see where he played CF in the Braves system. Is this possible like it was with Biggio?
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Kelly Johnson did play LF for them and had excellent range.
But now they have Heyward and Schafer coming up and Infante and Prado in the IF. KJ just doesn’t fit them right now.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
So what was wrong with him in 2009?
Based on his earlier years, he could be interesting, including at 2B. Based on 2009, no thanks.
He had some kind of arm injury.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
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