Mike Cameron signs with the Red Sox
SOB. I hope Byrd is good.
about 2 years ago
Cubbiegoon
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Meh.
I’ve always been ambivalent towards the Byrd vs. Cameron debate. Neither would make much of an impact over the other. Though I’ve leaned towards Byrd because he’s younger.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Shit
He would fit perfectly in CF. Thank you Jim Hendry for signing Bradley, even though half of the fanbase knew it was a bad signing to begin with.
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
as bad as last year's off season was
this is shaping up to be even worse.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 14, 2009 7:33 PM CST up reply actions
and yet, you'll still find people who think Hendry is doing a good job.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 14, 2009 7:33 PM CST up reply actions
No, the Hendry is FAILING
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 15, 2009 8:42 AM CST up reply actions
The toothless guy that says woo doesn't help
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 14, 2009 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
Really?
This is why people laugh at Cubs fans.
You don’t know who I am referring to?
HWSNBN
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 14, 2009 11:09 PM CST up reply actions
s'alright
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 15, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
LOL...good one :)
P.S. is there a way to show a “laughing” smiley-face?
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 15, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
Not that I'm aware of . . . but thanks!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 15, 2009 6:45 PM CST up reply actions
:D
A LO PROFUNDOOO...NOO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NOO...DIGANLE QUE NO A ESA PELOTA!! GANAN LOS CACHORROS DE CHICAGO!!
by Azul Cachorro on Dec 15, 2009 8:26 PM CST up reply actions
got it...thanks :D
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 15, 2009 8:39 PM CST up reply actions
aww...that's cute!
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 15, 2009 8:50 PM CST up reply actions
actually people laugh at Cubs fans because no matter how bad the product
they trot out there, there is a group of fans who still think they’re gonna win the World Series
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 15, 2009 8:42 AM CST up reply actions
exactly,they're jealous of the passion ....
…..I was camping with WS fans in 05 and they would made fun of Cub fans and at the end of the season when the Sox won it all, they never even watched the whole Series. I’d call them and they’d be sleeping. No passion.
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 15, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
another thing...
I’m proud of my optimism and my passion and my loyalty…..if people think that it’s humorous I could care less…..
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 15, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
I would prefer
Ankiel personally. I know he’s not the favorite, but the guy busts his ass in the outfield, and hes got some pop. sure, his numbers went down last year, but the guy went head first into a wall for goodness sakes. I’d take Ankiel over Cameron and Byrd. then sign another right handed outfielder to platoon with dome.
add in a cannon for an arm
I kind of like Ankiel too. at least over the remaining options.
by PrincetonCubs on Dec 14, 2009 8:03 PM CST up reply actions
I don't want Ankiel.
He could go south at any time.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
He can't go any more south than he did in '08!
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
very true
that means no place to go but up, right? :)
Ankiel’s got legit 20-homer power from the left side. He didn’t look great last year, but he was pretty nicked up, plus LaRussa did a bad job in managing that OF situation. He’s only 30. To me, he’s a cheap option who’ll be better than buying high on Marlon Byrd (yuck.)
by PrincetonCubs on Dec 14, 2009 8:52 PM CST up reply actions
In theory, Ankiel could be worth kicking the tires on -
I’d be ok with just filling out CF void with a collection of 4th OFs with varying usefulness – Church, Baldelli, and Fuld, swapping in based on pitcher matchups, both offensive and defensive. And you could include Ankiel in there in place of Church, too.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Isn't Ankiel represented by Boras?
I thought I read that somewhere. And also read that Boras had already built the case that Ankiel was worth big money and multiple years.
That should go over real well in Rickettsville…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
We want to pick someone up because he crashed into walls?
we already have Sam Fuld.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
What
I’d take Ankiel over Cameron and Byrd.
Total WAR, last 3 years:
Mike Cameron: 10.6
Marlon Byrd: 8.6
Rick Ankiel: 3.5
Ankiel is a consolation prize if you can’t afford anything better, and should really be platooned with someone like Reed Johnson if you’re going to try and maximize his value. Byrd and Cameron are far, far better players.
yeah, but
Ankiel: ~280 games in the last 3 years
Byrd: ~380 games in the last 3 years
Cameron: ~420 games in the last 3 years
still a gap, but when you match them up games-wise, the discrepancy isn’t nearly so stark
by PrincetonCubs on Dec 20, 2009 6:28 PM CST up reply actions
Worry about Bradley separately
If it’s true, Hendry needs to compartmentalize things. Worry about Bradley separately from improving the team. You can deal off Bradley later.
Well either he is - and he's been saying that he hasn't been solely focused on Bradley
or Ricketts has put a payroll limit on Hendry that is necessitating knowing how much money he has left after dealing Bradley.
And as for those who want to complain that Hendry got himself into this mess with payroll – think it through. Hendry was ordered to bring payroll to where it is. He couldn’t plan ahead as if he knew who would own the club, what their vision would be, etc.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Was he ordered to give Samardzija $10M and a NTC?
Miles 2/$4.9M?
Gathright $1M?
Do I need to continue?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 14, 2009 8:28 PM CST up reply actions
Are you being serious?
Those contracts aren’t the things that added up to any serious problem.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I am indeed being serious
You don’t think that those add up to decreased flexibility?
Are YOU being serious? Because it comes across like an attempt to absolve Hendry of blame.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 14, 2009 9:01 PM CST up reply actions
There are real reasons to blame Hendry for real mistakes.
But getting worked up over giving Joey Gathright 1 M is like pulling someone over for doing 66 in a 65.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
You don’t think that those add up to decreased flexibility?
Guess what the key phrase in there is.
Yeah, you can parse it all you want. A million here, a million there and pretty soon you’re talking real money.
John McDonough didn’t tie Hendry’s hands for 2010. Neither did Sam Zell. Jim Hendry did.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 14, 2009 11:03 PM CST up reply actions
What do you expect Hendry was supposed to do?
The old regime says “Spend 140 M,” and Hendry was supposed to plan that one of his contracts was going to go bust in 2010, and that his payroll would be 141 M, and so he was supposed to spend only 130 M, so as to have room?
I didn’t say signing MB wasn’t a mistake. I said, or at least have been saying, that Hendry had a club at the end of 2008 that made sense to go all in with and for and he did. At the end of his 2008 off-season he should have expected the OF to be set for 2010.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
You have evidence that they told him how much to spend?
That they told him to backload contracts?
I never said anything about MB in this discussion . . . you’re going off on tangents, moving the goalposts, etc.
I expect that he shouldn’t have thrown away money on stupid contracts like the ones that I first cited. I said nothing about Soriano, Lee, Ramirez, etc.
Take away the idiocy that was Gathright, Miles, Samardzija, overpaying middle relievers, etc. and there’s enough room for a move last year.
You’re trying to blame TribCo for the Cubs spending too much (now THAT’s a new one) and saying poor Jim just HAD to spend all the cash.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 15, 2009 6:39 AM CST up reply actions
What move are you going to make with that money?
Seriously. You have to pay each ML player 400K – so let’s assume that the money spent on Samardzija wasn’t used at all in the draft, and that Jim Hendry went with Blanco instead of Miles and Fuld instead of Gathright. You save 1.8 M on Miles, 1.6 on Shark, and .6 on Gathright. You’ve got 4 M to spend. What great move are you going to make with 4 M?
As for the rest of your questions – well, who do you think told Hendry what his payroll was? Do you think he just got to set it himself? It’s not like Hendy just kept spending and no one knew what he was doing.
He was told he had 140 M or so. What was he supposed to do – just let some of that sitting there? No one does that – in any business. He did save some of his payroll for a move – we know there was at least 3 M because that’s what it cost to add Grabow and Gorz. Indications were that there was more available too. It just didn’t make sense to add any one-year vet, because there was no one available to help us catch the Cards at that point.
I’m sorry if you think I’m moving the goalposts – I just have trouble taking this idea seriously that Gathright and Miles added up to disaster. And this idea that I’m blaming TribCo for spending too much is crazy. Why are people mad that the Cubs have a high payroll? That’s a good thing! Dozens of other fanbases wish they had our payroll possibilities. And I’m not even convinced we’ve maxed that amoung of payroll the Cubs can afford to invest in players. If you believe Scott Boras is even half right, there’s probably more room to spend.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
$4m might have allowed us to keep DeRosa
Probably wouldn’t have saved our season, but he would have been more useful to use than Miles/Gathright/Shark. And this is coming from someone who’s decidedly not a DeRomantic.
Which is precisely why we know it was never money re: DeRosa
It was faith in Fontenot and desire for his LH bat.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
You ARE moving the goalposts
You implied that I said you brought up MB, when I did no such thing. You implied that he was told to spend $140M, now you’re backtracking and acknowledging that was his limit.
I get the concept of using the budget, but it could have been used wisely.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 15, 2009 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
Look as far as it goes -
I feel like I’m being consistent, but I’ll certainly concede I might not be making myself clear. Here’s what I’ve been trying to say:
1.) We don’t know what Hendry’s limit is. And that’s a good thing – other teams and agents don’t need to know.
2.) Let’s assume 145 was his limit. Spending 140ish makes sense coming off a 97 win team. You go for it.
3.) Hendry showed no signs of not being able to get a 2009 mid-season upgrade because of cash restraints.
4.) Current apparent cash restraints are the result of Ricketts setting a hard line as well as the big MB issue. (But I say apparent, because we still don’t know where things are going to end up exactly.)
5.) Miles and co. are not really consequential to this.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
And it's not just this past year
Hendry has a history of bidding against himself and handing out multi-year deals to players when there is no real market for it.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 15, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
Citations please.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Neifi Perez, Glendon Rusch
Or do you think they had other offers?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 15, 2009 6:46 PM CST up reply actions
I have no idea on Rusch.
Neifi is one of those bite-size contracts – I just can’t get worked up about it.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
See, that's just it
It’s easy to pick apart/dismiss any individual contract. I’m talking about the overall pattern. The money adds up.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 17, 2009 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
But there is a difference between SPEND $140M and BLOW $140M
overpaying marginal talents for too many years.
Account for the marginal talents -
how much of our roster do you really believe is highly paid marginal talent?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I think I started this discussion by mentioning it
No one forced Hendry to spend the entire budget – and he could have spent it more wisely than he did.
I find a lot of your comments insightful . . . I don’t understand why you refuse to see that Hendry is responsible for the payroll situation.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 15, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
What do you mean "responsible for the payroll situation"?
I don’t have any problem saying he’s responsible in many senses.
I think Hendry made a big mistake with regards to the relationship of Milton Bradley to his coaches. He then made a decision to bring peace to a losing clubhouse at the cost of Bradley’s trade value. I can’t say whether that was the right decision or not, because I don’t know what things were really going on. Regardless, it’s clear he’s now in trouble unloading the contract, although not necessarily in as much trouble as some are saying.
I do not think it was a wrong decision to max out the budget given him (so long as about 5 M was left for a mid-season acquisition, which it appears to have been).
I do not think Hendry could have foreseen what Ricketts’ payroll would be when he gave contracts to Sori and Lilly and Dome.
I do not think it was foreseeable that Milton Bradley – one man – could not be controlled by his coaches and cause such behind the scenes havok. Hendry had access to former teammates of Bradley’s, so I’m not sure this was predictable at all. Let me be clear. It was predictable that MB would be a jerk and lose his temper. What’s not predictable is that his attitude would become the level of problem it has only on the Cubs.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
holy cow DGU....
i’d swear you were a relative of Hendry or something
he couldn’t plan ahead?
the payroll didn’t move up significantly from ’08 to ’09, he had to shed payroll to get bradley. These were all largely his decisions
even if you suggest he “HAD” to spend money, he clearly spent it poorly. Hold the guy accountable
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 14, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions
He's accountable for plenty of things
what do I have to put the Hendry moves I don’t like in my sig line?
But it’s a simple fact that Hendry didn’t know what Ricketts’ payroll would be back in 2008.
And how do you plan ahead to need to shed Bradley? Hendry thought Bradley was going to work out.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
when you're the GM
and every offseason you’re trying to rid yourself of an inflated contract that you signed the player to…. you’re responsible. And whether its poor evaluation, a lack of foresight, whatever it is… its his responsibility
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 14, 2009 9:58 PM CST up reply actions
It's easy to forget the contracts that weren't inflated.
Aramis, Lilly, DeRo, DLee, to name a few….
Why is it so hard for people to be objective?! I recognize that JH had a HORRIBLE offseason last year, but doesn’t he get a chance to correct it?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Haha, you're right the season is already over.
There will always be next next year.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
two things here
1) relying on FA to build a contender is a faulty premise to start with, it allows zero wiggle room for mistakes.
Hendry has lived in free agency and decided to eschew potential low-cost replacement level options for short-term fill-ins. Examples include sending out Pie for Heilman, which was done to make a $10 million dollar mistake on Bradley
trading away Jose Ceda to spend 4 million on Kevin Gregg last year was another example
2) Soriano, Marquis, Bradley, Fukudome, Grabow, Miles, etc are all examples of wasted money
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
Are you kidding me?
Hendry wasn’t ordered to waste money on useless crap and predictably bad situations.
That's what I said in response to SB above.
He was given a payroll #, and part of how he spent that # was bad, but how in the world do you blame him for hitting that #?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
he wasn't ordered to spend this amount of money, he was told "this is how much you have to spend"
he could have come under it.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 15, 2009 8:44 AM CST up reply actions
Right.
So, you’re saying that after a 97 win year, it would have been smart for Hendry to save 10 M or so just to make Dave Ramsey happy?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
No, but maybe he could have saved a few million for a midseason acquisition
Like most of the other teams did, at least the competing ones.
Um.
He did. He acquired John Grabow. And it looked like he had more room too, but there was no player worth acquiring that met our needs beyond Grabow and Gorz.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
what a season changing aquisition Grabow was...
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
Tell me who the season changing acquisition was
that was available!
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Even Cliff Lee
wasn’t going to add 7.5 wins.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
nope
and this year none of the players you’re suggesting spending unnecessary dollars on are going to make that ground up either, but you continue to suggest they will
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
Do you really think the gap between St. Louis and the Cubs is identical to the end of the 2009 season?
Surely not.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
yes
we’ve gotten worse, and our players are in decline
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
Have you even looked at the situation in St. Louis?
Is Chris Carpenter going to pitch all season again?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
why
do we assume the worst for the opponent
and the best for us?
you assume Carpenter won’t be healthy, you assume Soriano will rebound in some significant way, you assume they won’t re-sign holliday. you assume COlby Rasmus won’t get far better in his 2nd full season, ryan franklin will regress
so on and so forth
look when PECOTA comes out with their projections, i bet we’re at least 4-5 games behind STL
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
It's called regression to the mean.
We will be more healthy because we were absurdly unhealthy in ’09.
I do think Rasmus will step forward, though.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
relying on regression in health
for an aging roster is something i think is questionable, especially considering you’re not taking into account the GOOD fortune we’ve had with pitchers being healthy the last 2 years
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
If you can't recognize how
unexpected and debilitating the Cubs’ health issues were, and how unlikely that is to happen again, well, we are going to just go around in circles.
Again, it’s not just that they had injuries – it was the stacking of the injuries so that the lineup was gelded.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Why do you assume
the best for the Cubs opponent and the worst for the Cubs? That question cuts both ways, DCF.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 15, 2009 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
i don't....
but you probably don’t read enough of my stuff to understand
i think Soto will improve significantly. Last year I thought Pie would improve significantly.
I think we have the start of a strong farm system and I think we’re in a position if we’re fiscally conservative the next two years, to tactically target high end FA’s to supplement some of the young talent
I think guys like Gaub, Caridad, etc can contribute this year.
I think Aramis, DLee, and Soto should be enough to carry the offense to a 2nd place finish in the division. I just happen to think the lack of depth on the roster, wasted money on spots (Bradley, Soriano, etc), and regression in our SP will keep us 4+ back of STL throughout the season
but you don’t care about any of that…
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
Thank you for making that clear
I don’t think I’m the only one who didn’t see any of that.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2009 1:19 AM CST up reply actions
well..
i’ve stated repeatedly my thoughts on Soto getting back
i’ve stated repeatedly why i would’ve not signed Grabow and gone with young guys in the pen
i’ve stated repeatedly i think we’re behind the Cards in the division
i’m very repetitive in my ideas, but since you only look for the ones you can call out, you probably dont actually read that much or think about what others write, you just look to flame
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2009 6:42 AM CST up reply actions
Keep playing that one-inch violin
You haven’t posted anything about the Grabow trade recently, so I guess you’re making progress.
If you don’t post anything flame-worthy, you have nothing about which to complain.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
your user name
should be “flame police”
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2009 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
You know, that was
an excellent album by Cheap Trick.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2009 5:53 PM CST up reply actions
There is no middle ground with Cubs fans.
The same people that bitch about are farm system are the same people that want to mortgage it on someone like Cliff Lee. Can’t have it both way folks.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
oh no don't get me wrong
i didn’t want them to go after Cliff Lee, i’m just suggesting there were names available that could have made a significant impact
we were a flawed team last year who shouldn’t have been making mid season acquisitions. Grabow was a waste of prospects and money
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
so you're telling me
if Hendry went in and said
“We can spend the $140 million dictated and win 85 games OR we can spend $120 million and win 85 games”, his bosses would have said
Spend the extra $20 million and go waste it to the best of your abilities Jimbo
and THIS is why he made the mistakes? this whole idea is asinine
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
It's assinine to think
anyone in the Cubs expected to win 85 games last year. They had a 97 winner in hand. They had a strategy – which I was very critical of – to get more LHed. They executed the strategy fairly well – for it being a flawed strategy. But it wasn’t even the bad strategy that was the problem – it was the overload of injury stacking. You can’t create runs with half of the lineup is giving you below replacement level production.
How would people have felt if everyone was healthy and we were 1 game shy of the Cards’ last year because we stuck with Pie and he didn’t get it under Piniella-Perry?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
they had a 97 game winner
and made moves to make it worse, its reasonable to suggest those moves to make it worse would indeed make you worse
we removed roster flexibility, downgraded our bench and our bullpen and were coming off of a bevy of career years from players
it was VERY reasonable to expect we’d be worse, perhaps not 85 games worse, but regardless you’re deflecting the main point here
you’re suggesting Hendry spent to a certain number because he was told to get to that number and had he suggested that number would get us no better than where we were to his executives, they still would have instructed him to spend that much
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
All I am saying
is that the Cubs — like EVERY other pundit in the baseball world – thought they were shoe-ins for the NL Central. We were looked at as one of the best teams in the NL. It’s like everyone has forgotten how things were just one year ago.
The Cubs were right to view themselves that way. Projections backed up that view.
So, when you have that window – you go for it. I can’t believe people are arguing we shouldn’t go for it coming off a 97 game winner.
On paper, Milton Bradley was a huge upgrade – just what the team needed. And, yes, I said it from the beginning, the lack of depth was an issue. But my suggestion, of adding Aubrey Huff, would not have fixed things. DeRosa would not have fixed things. There were just too many simultaneous offensive injuries.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
No one is blaming him for...
spending the money he was given (at least no one should be). They’re blaming him for being incredibly inefficient with the money and wasting it on garbage that he now has to sell at garage sale prices, rather than investing it into something nice.
Like what?
This meme is really getting silly. Tell me where he should have invested this money.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 15, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
As a heart attack
“Something nice.” Let’s hear it. Realistically.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2009 1:20 AM CST up reply actions
Well...
let’s look at the most recent offseason then. Dunn would’ve been a MUCH better investment than Bradley, as would Abreu. Pretty much anyone in the minor league system would have been a much better investment than Aaron Miles.
Abreu, I'll give you
Dunn’s K’s and defense are too much a liability.
Can’t explain what happened with Miles. Based on his two previous seasons, I can see why Hendry got him.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
you're claiming he was ordered to hand out bad contracts?
I don’t think so.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 15, 2009 8:43 AM CST up reply actions
Not claiming that.
Not even close.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
It's going to be interesting to see what happens with Boston
I could see them go into the year with Beckett/Lester/Lackey/Matsuzaka/Wakefield or Buchholz or Bonser as the rotation, with the remaining 2 in the pen. That said, I could also see them shop Matsuzaka (they were a bit frustrated with him last year after his public comments). I could also see them shop Buhholz to land a bat. A lot of options on the table for Theo.
when hes not dumpster diving for guys like smoltz and penny
kinda
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 14, 2009 8:11 PM CST up reply actions
even then
those were two reasonable moves. I mean … adding pitching is never a bad thing. It just didn’t work, but I applauded both moves.
He's the best GM, I'd argue
I’ve lost much respect for Jim Hendry this off season
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
I can understand losing respect for Jim Hendry after the '08 off season,
but what has he done this off season to upset you?
I think most of our reactions are impatience for something to happen, but jumping the gun this offseason was probably never going to be the best strategy.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Well it's been a downward trend, I thought he was great during the 2006 off season
with the signings of Lilly, Marquis, and Soriano. Since 2008, I’ve continued to lose respect for him until now where It’s virtually gone…
So what do we do now? Sign Damon????
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
And last year
people were complaining that Hendry didn’t wait around until late, when guys like Orlando Hudson were available.
Sigh.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 14, 2009 8:19 PM CST up reply actions
Well I wasn't one of those people
I thought Fontenot could handle the job at 2b, but I was wrong.
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Well
I would have to say Hudson and Abreu would of cost less, and most likely won more games than having Miles and Bradley on this team. Hindsight is wonderful I know, however those two were late free agents and Jimbo rushed to the front and signed Bradley and Miles.
I wanted Abreu from the start, not the guy the Cubs are trying to unload 23 hours out of the day.
So yeah, make fun of me for complaining.
It must be nice to live in a world without nuance.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 15, 2009 8:47 AM CST up reply actions
I just don't think there's any thing to judge this offseason yet.
The Miles/Fox and Grabow moves were small potatoes.
Personally, I rather hope Jim is outbid on Byrd, too, and has to look to trade for a CF. Bring back Pie!
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Agreed, I'd love to have Pie back. We could probably get him for a couple minor leaguers
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Not anymore.
He’s out of options and hitting ML pitching.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I just think he may put up good numbers with the Cubs.
I think it will really work out if he comes to the Cubs.
well I think Pie would put up good numbers with the cubs as well
so..
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Maybe.
But would Jimmy do it? He’s already trying to get his foot unlodged from his mouth with the whole [name redacted] thing. How would he deal with getting Pie back?
Milton is our quarterback.
Jim always liked Pie
he only traded him so Pie could get a full shot – something he wasn’t going to get on the ’09 Cubs. So long as Jim and Lou had an understanding about Pie playing, Jim would probably be glad to bring back Pie.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Jim has leverage
if it’s about trying to get back Pie. The “leverage” argument only applies to trading away MB. It doesn’t really apply to any other situation.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
leverage exists in all negotiations, it's simply a matter of who has it.
We know:
A) Hendry desperately needs a CF (especially a cheap one)
B) The O’s are under no pressure to rid themselves of a cheap, young, productive player with upside.
Under these conditions, the O’s have the upper hand.
Hendry does not desperately need a CF.
He has Sam Fuld and Kosuke Fukudome.
The leverage in these negotiations is neutral.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
you're right, as long as we want to miss the playoffs again
Dome and Fuld will be just fine as our centerfielder
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 15, 2009 8:49 AM CST up reply actions
that is not even worth a response
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
You guys have a funny definition of
“desperate” then. We can start the year with Sam Fuld. Sam Fuld is basically Ryan Theriot only as a CF.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I agree, and Theriot and Fuld in the lineup
on an everyday basis would be disaster in my opinion.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
So, start Fuld
sign Tejada, trade Theriot – and it’s like we got Mike Cameron only his name is Miguel Tejada.
I’m not arguing Fuld and Dome are the best options. I’m arguing we’re not “desperate” to get Pie back.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Tejada's heading for third, most likely
His defense at short isn’t very good anymore.
I'd only want Tejada for a year - and that may not be possible.
But there are other SS options and I’m just throwing ideas out there.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Fuld = Theriot ? I think not
Call me the next time you see Fuld double clutch. Seriously Theriot is a good hitter with little power , not very good defense and VERY bad baserunning skills. Fuld’s hitting is only reliable Vs lefties, he has almost no power but is a terrific funner and fielder. Fuld of course is the bench guy. So it goes.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
Good points.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Theriot sucks....
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 15, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
Well, he ended the year
at .266/.326/.437, which is just fine for a guy who gives you plus defense in CF.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Yep.
I’d argue, he always was.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Fukodome had a -18.1 UZR/150 in CF
that does not equal “plus” defense in CF.
I was talking about Felix Pie.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 14, 2009 8:27 PM CST up reply actions
actually Grabow was another sign of Jim not getting it
that contract was ridiculous. There are plenty of guys out there just like Grabow that could be had for much cheaper
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 15, 2009 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
Do us a favor
and name us two or three of them, please. Two or three that unequivocally would be cheaper.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 15, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
Howry ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
You really would want Howry back?
C’mon, Jess, you’d be the first one bitching about him after his first bad game.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
Let's not forget
that the Cubs were connected to Cammy because Lou said he wanted him. We don’t know what Hendry’s plan was or was not. I always had a sense that Hendry preferred Byrd. I’m also somewhat hopeful that we don’t get either of Byrd or Cameron and are forced to be creative.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Do you get the sense that Hendry evaluates players...
in the old-school manner? Based on his moves, it doesn’t strike me that he puts much faith in some of the newer metrics? Sometimes he strikes me as the kind of guy who looks at Gold Gloves as meaningful…
At any rate, I really hope someone alerts Hendry to the fact that Byrd sucks in CF…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 14, 2009 8:21 PM CST up reply actions
I doubt Hendry puts stock in gold gloves.
And I’m not sure you should trust defensive metrics yet over scouting reports.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
It's a good point about defensive metrics...
I guess I was actually asking as a general thought, primarily on the offensive side of things. Not meant in relation to our needs in CF.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 14, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions
Hendry
has always been considered more old-school than many of the GM’s out there right now. He’s better than some … but still more on the old-school end.
Do you get the sense that Hendry evaluates players...
in the old-school manner? Based on his moves, it doesn’t strike me that he puts much faith in some of the newer metrics? Sometimes he strikes me as the kind of guy who looks at Gold Gloves as meaningful…
At any rate, I really hope someone alerts Hendry to the fact that Byrd sucks in CF…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 14, 2009 8:21 PM CST up reply actions
Oops..
Computer fail. Not sure why that posted twice. Also ignore that second “?”. :)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 14, 2009 8:22 PM CST up reply actions
yes because what we want our incompetent GM to have to do is "get creative"
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 15, 2009 8:50 AM CST up reply actions
maybe we can try Gathright again
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 15, 2009 8:50 AM CST up reply actions
at this point ...
I’m not that optimistic about Hendry’s ability to be creative. IMO, he was creative with MB’s option year, and that was a huge, huge mistake.
Creative
Jim Edmonds
Jeff Baker
Jason Kendall
Ryan Dempster as closer
Ryan Dempster as starter
Sometimes Hendry’s creative options don’t work – Sori in CF; Dome in CF – and a lot of people are down on Barett despite the value he gave as a hitter for two years. But that comes with the territory if you want creative.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Exactlty as I said
sometiems creative doesn’t work out – that’s why it’s creativity instead of infallible prophecy.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
by DGU on Dec 15, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ergh...
I really don’t want Marlon Byrd (assuming we even get him)…I wasn’t enamored with Cameron, but he seemed like our best choice as far as they went. So much for that, I guess.
I find myself having the somewhat irrational longing for the Cubs to do SOMETHING just because it feels like we’re stagnating. In Bradley’s case, while I think our best on-field result would be to keep him (as opposed to taking on some lesser player in a bad-contract swap), it’s hard to avoid that feeling of just wanting to get it out of the way already.
Of course, GMs should not act irrationally or hastily, so it’s a good thing I’m not the GM. :)
Well the interesting thing about this move
is that it takes the only plus defensive CF off the market, giving him to a club that already had a CF. Possibly this is setup for Ellsbury to go to SD, but SD wasn’t going to outbid us for a CF anyway. That increases the demand for Byrd…
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
well, the good news is, this move probably priced Byrd out of our range anyway. i would assume
byrd was inline to make more than bradley or at least the same. i don’t see the cubs signing someone to play CF for almost 8mil a season. we’ll probably end up with podsednik.
vomit
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 15, 2009 8:51 AM CST up reply actions
i doubt that ellsbury is going anywhere
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 14, 2009 8:28 PM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't hesitate to trade Ellsbury if I could get Adrian Gonzalez back
and if SD was asking for Ellsbury, I’d want to sign Cameron first….
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
SD was asking for buchholz
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 14, 2009 8:45 PM CST up reply actions
but not only Buchholz
surely…
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
i know
but considering how stingy epstein is with prospects, i doubt hed be willing to deal both buchholz and ellsbury. ofcourse, he could be pulling a fast one on us
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 14, 2009 8:50 PM CST up reply actions
Gonzalez might be one of the better hitters in all of baseball
Considering he nabbed the top pitcher and CF free agents, he might be willing to give up both.
possibly
i was just basing this on the fact that a day ago the main chips were buchholz and either casey kelly or ryan westmoreland
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 15, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions
I heard someone say Heath Bell might be coming as part of the deal
Not sure if that’s true, but that might explain the increased desire to trade his two young guys.
not exactly sure why would the red sox would want him
but i guess that would explain it
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 15, 2009 8:45 PM CST up reply actions
Relatively cheap reliever with a career 119 ERA+?
Even if their closer spot is tied down, he would make for a good setup man.
The Milton Bradley signing done by Jim Hendry will go down as the move that destroyed this core of Cubs players
Although it sounds radical, I believe this to be true. The Bradley signing forced us to get rid of Mark DeRosa and Kerry Wood, two players that would have made this team much better last year if we hadn’t even signed a RF to begin with. This year, we couldn’t keep Rich Harden as a result. Throw in the Aaron Miles deal, and this was a complete disaster.
Mike Cameron appeared to be THE best option for Centerfield, now we are left with virtually nothing. We either stick with Bradley and Fukudome, which is a disaster, or sign Marlon Byrd, who isn’t that great (I saw him play in DC, and I’d say Bradley would be a better bat then him). What’s Jim Hendry’s solution? "Well we tried to trade Bradley so we couldn’t sign anyone else til we got him. At least we have Sam Fuld for CF."
Hendry needs to make a move soon if he wants to still be employed. Seriously? Are you all satisfied with having Byrd in CF? Well maybe we could try Pie..oh wait, we traded him for virtually Aaron Heilman last off season. That looks like a great trade as well! Meh..
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
NOT ST MARK DEROSA!
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 14, 2009 8:28 PM CST up reply actions
Make fun because it is beaten to death,
but there is a reason that people continue to bring that rediculous trade up..
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
he got good value for derosa. trading him wasn't the issue. the problem was the subsequent signings.
You're right
derosa could have healed ramirez and soriano and well all be chanting “WORLD SERIES CHAMPS”
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 14, 2009 8:36 PM CST up reply actions
DeRosa would have been the perfect option at 3b for when Ramirez went down
Remember? We put Mike Fontenot and Jake Fox at the position because no one else was available to play that role. We all feared that if Ramirez went down we’d have no replacement for him after we traded DeRosa, and that was true.
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
And if so, we'd all be chanting
“World Series champs”?
Injuries and subpar seasons from a lot of key players were why the Cubs didn’t do as well as we all hoped. Not because they traded a journeyman utility player coming off career seasons and approaching his mid-30s.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 14, 2009 8:44 PM CST up reply actions
that doesn't mean trading DeRo ...
without a backup for Aramis was a good idea.
I believe the backup
was Miles.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 15, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
That, apparently, was the plan
but the Cubs were mistaken about Miles’ third-base ability. Oh, well.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 15, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
right -- they were mistaken about a guy whom they signed for $5 million
Not knowing that he couldn’t hack it at third — while trading DeRo — made the whole endeavor a bad idea. Do you really disagree with that?
Not really
Trading DeRo was a good idea at the time. And before people start talking about Ramirez’s “injury history,” that typically added up to maybe 10-20 games, tops. Half the season is another story.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 15, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
wow
No disrespect, but I think you and I might just disagree on everything. It’s kind of amazing.
I wouldn't call it amazing
I’d call it part of life. No disrespect meant there, either, but I don’t find it unusual.
We do agree that we’re both Cubs fans, so there’s some common ground for ya. :-)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 15, 2009 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Peoria
Too many Cardinals fans around here. Yourself?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 15, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
Grew up in Chicago
around too many Sox fans. Not sure which is worse. At least Sox fans don’t call themselves “the best in baseball.” :-)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 15, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
And that was a relly spiffy plan, wasn't it?
The Cubs were so desparate they signed the smoking ruin that used to be Ryan Freel. If anyone had owned the club, they should have fired Hendry then…..
and in the end the result would have been the same
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 14, 2009 8:45 PM CST up reply actions
BS
I don’t know how you can make that assumption when DeRosa filled the role excellently in 2007 and 2008
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
im willing to bet that derosa being on the cubs wouldnt have erased the 7.5 game cardinal lead
and miraculously fix the injuries to the starting rotation, soriano, and soto
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 14, 2009 8:48 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe Lou would have stayed awake and not put Scales in LF to blow a couple of games at the end of the season
And then you’re down to 5 1/2 games….
im willing to bet that derosa being on the cubs wouldnt have erased the 5.5 game cardinal lead
and miraculously fix the injuries to the starting rotation, soriano, and soto
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 15, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
However....
… you cannot deny that having DeRosa on the team instead of Aaron Miles would have made the Cubs a better team.
5.5 games? 7.5 games? Probably not. But better nevertheless.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The Aaron Miles who played for the Cardinals
in 2007 and ’08? Yes.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2009 1:22 AM CST up reply actions
That Aaron Miles still wasn't as good as DeRosa.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You're making a big assumption, too
That DeRosa would have approximated his own performance the previous year, let alone come anywhere near matching Ramirez’s career numbers.
Wonder if you were one of the ones lambasting Hendry for signing DeRosa in the first place.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 14, 2009 8:48 PM CST up reply actions
I actually loved the signing, I really liked Hendry's 2006 off season
Soriano, DeRosa, Lilly, and Marquis. All four players whether you liked them or not significantly helped with our Division titles in 07-08
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Never said I didn't like them
I thought they were good signings, too.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 14, 2009 8:52 PM CST up reply actions
It seems many people are overlooking/forgetting the fact that DeRosa was also hurt
during the season. It’s hard to sub when you’re hurt
I didn't attack you personally
I attacked a broad group of people, and deservedly so.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 14, 2009 8:45 PM CST up reply actions
oh well then its a valid argument
-rolls eyes-
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 15, 2009 8:53 AM CST up reply actions
Well, then, I guess
you’re in that group, too. Congratulations!
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 15, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
Wood and DeRosa didn't set the world on fire this year
and I’m not convinced Harden is something to slash wrists over.
I hope we don’t sign Byrd, but just cos Cameron has signed with the Sox doesn’t mean we HAVE to sign Byrd, there are ways for the Cubs to get creative. Have a little faith.
Well, obviously no one on the block at the moment
but whose to say who the Cubs might be able to push for in the months ahead.
I would have liked Cameron too and I’m pissed opportunities have passed by while Hendry tries to move the virtually unmovable, but I don’t think we should settle for subpar free agents.
Pie is definitely available.
Chris Young in AZ might be available.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Now that's an intriguing name.
He always seems to hit well at Wrigley? Why not take a shot at him?
Milton is our quarterback.
Disagree.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I think Baltimore
could match with us in taking middle infield prospects not named Castro or Lee; I have no idea what AZ thinks of Chris Young – if they’re soured or what.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I had Flaherty in mind;
also moving Barney clears AAA for Castro, although Barney’s not enough on his own.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
young reminds me of a guy named cory patterson
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 14, 2009 8:56 PM CST up reply actions
Uh oh, DGU. You're in trouble now...
You “named names”. You are on the list now. Looks like you’re banned from Hop Sing’s for good!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I wish I got the reference.
I’m not cool.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
not to worry - it's only from a Seinfeld episode
in other words, a reference about nothing…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Well
You mean the great “core” that is a combined 0-6 in the playoffs? That core? Set down the hyperbole for a second. The Bradley deal turned sour….let it go. DeRosa wouldn’t have done anything to help the Cubs a year ago after he injured his wrist. He would have ended up as yet another excuse or footnote for why something failed. Mike Cameron is getting paid an awful lot of many to catch routine fly balls and swing and miss a whole lot. He’s not an ideal fit in the current Cubs offfense.
Just because some guys are available doesn’t mean they’re a perfect fit. If anything, Hendry appears to have learned that from his last two offseason signings.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
Jim Hendry is boxed into a corner
He can’t move Bradley.
He’s tapped out the credit card.
He’s saddled with the ugliest contract collection in baseball.
He’s got nobody major league ready waiting in the minors to provide a much needed jolt.
He’s screwed. This is it folks. Cubs might be a 90 loss team in 2010. You can laugh at that all you want and call me all sorts of nasty pessimistic guy names. But the truth is the truth.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
I think the Cubs can do better than they did last year.
All the Cubs need is for Ramirez, Soto, and Soriano to be healthy. Even if Bradley is with the team next season.
Such a simple...
…yet accurate statement. Don’t forget the addition by subtraction, dropping Miles, Gregg, and Heilman.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Then do us and yourself a favor
and don’t follow any baseball again until at least 2011.
Christ, some of you are the biggest collection of manic depressives this side of an insane asylum.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 14, 2009 8:42 PM CST up reply actions
This from the guy who is nuttier than squirrel shit
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Ha!
Coming from you, I wear that like a badge of honor.
Please, don’t go away mad, just go away.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 14, 2009 8:46 PM CST up reply actions
Come on BLou.
That is the dumbest thing I’ve read here all day. 90 loses? Everything that could possibly go wrong last year, went wrong. And you think they’re still going to lose 12 more games than they did last season. That is drunk talk. I’ll be you my house Soto and Soriano have better years and if Ramirez plays his normal amount of games next season they’re more likely to win 12 more games than lose 12 more.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
As things stand right now, this is a sub .500 ballclub
Defense — C minus (Soriano, Kosuke and ??? left to right is bad). The middle infield is bad too.
Offense — Dysfunctional as always and a C grade max. The lefty bats are Kosuke and Fontenot to break up all those righties. Nuff said. We won’t speak of the guess hitting hack swinging at pitches in the dirt.
Rotation — C grade max. Lilly is 36 and coming off surgery. Zambrano is an immature punk. Dempster is the richest 4th starter type in baseball. Wells was a non-prospect a year ago, and until proven otherwise I shall maintain leery view.
Pen — D. Marmol, Grabow and Guzman followed by a boatload of open competition. And who on this earth feels comfortable about Marmol until proven otherwise in 2010.
Manager — C. The sleepy Lou Piniella doesn’t want to be here folks. He pines for the day when he is back in Temple Terrace full-time and back on the payroll of the Steinbrenners as special assistant.
Translation — 85 to 90 losses.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
ted lilly isnt 36
just sayin
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 14, 2009 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
I love Ted Lilly
But pre-surgery Ted Lilly was a 6 inning pitcher. I thought he was 36. If he isn’t, then he is close. Suffice to say it will be a leap of faith to say Lilly can pitch to his previous quality level in 2010. A downturn should be built into the planning equation.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
85 -90 losses
I don’t know. Cubs right now sure they are weak, remember one thing as of now the division is just as weak.
I to have zero faith in what Hendry will do. I honestly think your looking at a Fuld/Johnson combo in center.
I think the Cubs will go after Capps and that will be the big signing. And your opening day rightfielder will be Milton " the luckiest 30 million man" Bradley.
I don't disagree
I do however find that throwing numbers like 90 losses around before the turn of the calendar to 2010 is both reckless and irrational. You could just as easily sit here right now and claim that they’ll win 99 games. It’s just a silly exercise despite the fact that I don’t believe they are going to be able to corral enough talent to contend this season.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
Blou It's the truth
All the free agents we needed and or trades we needed GRANDERSON are gone .. Granderson IMO is going to be really good in Yankee Stadium being a lefthanded hitter , the Yankees are projecting Granderson to hit 35 to 40 homeruns in that park , He hit 30 last year . Then the Cubs could have SETTLED for Cameron , no too late , he’s taken .. IMO 2010 is going to be a waste .. Lets have some vision here and a plan . IMO the core of the Cubs are getting older , Lee is getting up there in years , why not trade for Adrian Gonzales from SD . He is a young stud to be around for the next ten years . Great glove and greater bat . I know Lee has a no trade clause but lets get creative for the future ..
This is the most anyone has ever commented on any of my fanshots.
I’d like to thank Mike Cameron, Milton Bradley, The Red Sox, Jimbo, and you guys.
no prob
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 14, 2009 8:46 PM CST up reply actions
Here's a rec, then, too.
Enjoy!
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Hendry Can't Pull The Trigger
A couple of years ago all we heard about was Roberts, then last year it was Peavy, now it’s Cameron.
It seems like everything the Cubs do is all talk and Jim close the deal. Other GM’s focus on their needs and do whatever it takes to trade for.. or sign that player.
Come on Jim, do something.
"It's gonna happen. And I'd love to see it."
-Mark Grace
You cannot be serious, Mr. McEnroe
The complaints around here have been that Hendry pulled the trigger too early.
And I guess you forgot about Soriano, Fukudome, etc.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 14, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions
Wow everyone needs to chill out.
Seriously. Are we really freaking out over the loss of Mike Cameron?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 14, 2009 9:16 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
im freaking out
because my gut tells me byrd might be a cub now
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 14, 2009 9:18 PM CST up reply actions
Cameron vs. Byrd
Is that gap between the two really that bad?
Both play a good CF, Cameron probably better. Cameron is older and will probably command more money than Byrd. Bryd has a better average, a little less power, better slugging and OPS.
I’m not trying to be snarky, just asking a serious question why everyone is so convince one is so much better than the other.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Byrd's offensive numbers are inflated by playing in Texas
Look at his career. A lot of sub 100 OPS+ seasons when he wasn’t playing at Arlington. Cameron didn’t even do that when playing in San Diego.
I think it's more than that.
I think it is mainly just frustration over the fact that Murphy’s Law is beating the hell out of us this offseason.
Milton is our quarterback.
Why?
We dump Heilman, Gregg, and Miles. All good things.
We lose Rich Harden, a 9 game winner in 2009, and a bullpen killer. Not the worst thing possible.
The Milton thing has gone very poorly, but I’m starting to join the camp that we should just keep him try make it work. It’s not worth eating the majority of his contract.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 14, 2009 9:24 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Thanks, cw,
for bringing some much-needed perspective.
I’m not sure how I feel about Bradley right now. I’m not necessarily against keeping him; I think the well is too poisoned, by himself and others, for him to be too successful in Chicago. But I’d like to be wrong about that.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 14, 2009 9:28 PM CST up reply actions
He probably is too much of a cancer...
…but at this point I think it’s worth the gamble. Maybe someone on another team gets hurt and want to trade for him. But at this point none of the options seem that great.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Ah, perspective.
Thanks for bringing some here.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Rec'd
The only person I remember reading that really wanted Cameron was Lou. CHONE projected him to hit .231/.314/.401. Be patient.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Explain the "patient" thing pushed up against the payroll crisis and lack of tradeable commodities
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Echo, echo,...
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
There's no talking with you right now. You aren't interested in conversation.
“payroll crisis” and “lack of tradeable commodities”
These are exaggerations designed simply to stoke the crowd. You were saying last year the payroll was in a crisis and we didn’t have the money to sign MB – but we did. You were saying we didn’t have the pieces to trade for Harden, but we did. You were saying we didn’t have the pieces to trade for Granderson, but then it came out they wanted Castro.
So you “want” a response? Be patient. Hendry’s offseason isn’t over. We don’t know what his exact payroll position is but we do know he has tradeable commodities.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
by DGU on Dec 14, 2009 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Yawn...
Well sure, if you’re willing to trade Starlin Castro then I guess that opens up possibilities. But lets be realistic, trading Castro isn’t really something up for consideration.
So wash away the literal meaning check my friend and smell the reality of things. You’re just pissed off because somebody is willing to stand up to the kool-aid drinkers around here.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
There's plenty to trade. The Cubs' farm is stronger now than St. Louis' was when they acquired DeRosa and Holliday.
And if we fall out, as you claim, Derrek Lee and Ted Lilly will waive their NTCs and bring back a good amount in trade.
And, honestly, I’m not angry at all right now. More than anything, I’m bewildered that so many people are so upset by “losing out” on a player no one but Lou really wanted all that much.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Lets trade Lee
hopefully he agrees to it , since he has a NTC . Get some prospects and trade some top prospects for Adrian Gonzales , and get the core of the Cubs a little younger , Also Gonzales will be around awhile to play first base for the Cubs for years to come .
Sky fallers vs. kool-aid drinkers
Glad to say I’m the latter.
OMG no Mike Cameron, what ever will we do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You’re the same idiot that mentioned the free swining Cameron in the same line up with the free swinging Sori. Now you’re for the move? Hahaha doesn’t being wrong get old?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Here...
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/12/10/1195425/jim-hendry-idiot-at-work-on#26946558
Echo echo echo….
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 14, 2009 11:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"kool-aid drinkers"? Borrrrrrrrrrring!
C’mon BLou – where’s that infantile creativity of yours? “kool-aid drinkers” is such an overused phrase – you know, like “heavens to mergatroid”.
You were much better when you came up with winners like “drool monkeys” and “doorknobs”.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
"...stoke the crowd."
For that sentence alone, turn it green. REC’D!!!
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
As much as we all love to kill Soriano for being a guess-hitting hack
We would have loved Mike Cameron swining at fastball at his shoulders with men on base. Yes, his defense would have been nice, but it’s not like the Cubs are losing a perennial .300-hitter here.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
So you like
Fuld and Johnson? If the Cubs can’t sign Cameron do you think they will sign anyone else?
SO that leaves Fuld/Johnson, boy isn’t that tremendous
What the hell are you talking about?
I never mentioned Fuld/Johnson. The offseason doesn’t end on 12/14/09, chill out.
Mike Cameron is going to be 38 when he’s done with the Red Sox and batted .250 last year. He got $15 M over two years. Sorry if I’m not crying over this.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Actually - I do.
Fuld/Johnson isn’t exactly optimal, I’ll grant you that. And I would certainly hope that Jimbo continues to beat the CF bushes, both in FA and via trade, to see what he can flush out. But I was not thrilled with Cameron at all, so I’m kinda glad he’s no longer an option.
And I definitely think we should turn turn turn a deaf ear to any Byrd overtures. Not worth the money he’s going to be looking for.
I think Fuld/Johnson along with Dome and whatever we can pick up in the non-tender/ST invite group is a pretty good fallback plan, if it comes to that.
If we are going to make any kind of splash in the FA market, I hope come January, that Mr. Valverde readjusts his market expectations a bit. I’d be willing to give him a 3 yr / $24M deal, with a team/mutual option. Then maybe use Marmol to get something else via trade or keep him in valuable setup role.
Maybe after 2010, it’d be easier to make a more definitive call if Marmol has what it takes to be solid closer. If so, then all of a sudden, Valverde becomes a valuable trading chip. A closer with 2 yrs at a reasonable cost could probably net us something pretty good.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Touche.
What I mainly meant by the post was the whole Bradley thing. Sorry I didn’t clarify that.
Milton is our quarterback.
Boston and San Diego are talking Adrian Gonzalez
Clay Buccholz and Jacob Ellsbury are the bait. Red Sox would also get Heath Bell.
And you just KNOW that Brian Cashman and the Yankees are going to come back with a response.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
or so says Jayson Stark
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
If the Red Sox are talking about making Ellsbury available
We should get them on the phone. He scored 94 Runs last season (admittedly a team dependent stat, and had 70 Stolen Bases.
by Snake Plisskin on Dec 14, 2009 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
youd have to give up the farm and the keys to wrigley field to get him
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 14, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions
For Ellsbury?
i know the Red Sox like him, but come on.
by Snake Plisskin on Dec 14, 2009 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
i know
point is, that it would probably more than hendrys willing to offer
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 14, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions
Huh?
You do realize that Adrian Gonzalez is a very far cry from anything the Cubs could offer Boston. Gonzalez is the object of Boston’s affection….nobody else. They appear willing to trade crown jewels to acquire a player the magnitude of Gonzalez.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
How is Ellsbury a crown jewel?
Yeah, he’s got a lot of stolen bases, but, again, come on.
by Snake Plisskin on Dec 14, 2009 9:53 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe it is just wishful thinking on my part, but...
When I think of Boston’s crown jewels I think of Josh Becket and Jon Lester, not jacoby Ellsbury (nothing against him).
by Snake Plisskin on Dec 14, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions
They're making him available
to get Adrian Gonzalez, one of the top 1st basemen in baseball. They’re not trying to dump a young, cheap talented center fielder for the heck of it.
DEJESUS!!!
Yep
Adrian Gonzalez is an exceptional all-around ballplayer. Add Gonzalez to that lineup to go with a full year of Victor Martinez? Having added John Lackey? Yeah, I think you have sent a clear message to the Yankees and the rest of the American League that the Red Sox intend on getting back to the World Series.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Boston and San Diego are talking Adrian Gonzales
How about the CUBS getting in on that .. Lee is getting older , trade Lee for some prospects and the Cubs add some of their top prospects .. YES Starlin Castro throw in to trade for Gonzales . Lee just might agree to a deal since he has a NTC , you never know . Lee IMO has about two more good years . Gonzales is a young stud . Lets think about the Cubs future since the CORE is getting older ..
you know
trading several young players, for an older player isnt how you get young
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 15, 2009 6:40 PM CST up reply actions
Bradely is crippling our offseason.
Please God, let the Rickets increase this year’s payroll by $21 million and dump him.
They don't need the whole $21m this year.
$9m this year, $12m next year (2011) — and the 2011 payroll has a fair amount of money coming off it.
They’ll have to do it eventually.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
OT
but how on earth is SF up 3 scores to the team that completely demolished Minnesota last week?
DEJESUS!!!
Because Frank Gore, Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree are three very underrated and emerging weapons
Mike Singletary finds a way to build a defense in San Francisco and the 49ers are going to return to their former lofty status in the National Football League.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Gore is emerging?
5 year vet with 3 10000 yard seasons…….he is a vet, and is well known, good try.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Same can be said for Vernon Davis.
Who didn’t know about Vernon Davis before this year?!?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Vernon Davis is definitely "emerging".
He was horrible before this year. And the n he suddenly became Antonio Gates.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 15, 2009 10:22 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Because I changed my pick to AZ 10 minutes before the start of the game.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 14, 2009 11:40 PM CST up reply actions
Because AZ couldn't hang on to the ball
I think they just fumbled again
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 15, 2009 6:41 AM CST up reply actions
Jason Bay?
The Sox signing Cameron means Bay is out of there….maybe a Soriano-Dome-Bay OF? Just trying to find a way into some sunshine here in the winter of our discontent….
"I tried to let Ryan know that [jumping over the dugout railing] was a thing that maybe just athletes should stick to." -- Ted Lilly, 28 July 2009
by CaughtInTheVines on Dec 14, 2009 10:10 PM CST reply actions
I'm not discontent
We’ll see what happens when February and March roll around.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 14, 2009 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
Hell, at this point last year,
Mark DeRosa was still a Cub, just to put it in perspective.
"I have the time and hatred but not the knowledge." ~Madison Cub Fan (Aug. 25, 2009)
Part of me really wishes
the offseason was over on 12/14/09, but I guess I’ll just have to let winter break my back first. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 14, 2009 11:59 PM CST up reply actions
that would be one defensively challenged outfield
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 14, 2009 10:17 PM CST up reply actions
Why are we waiting to trade MB?
There may be other reasons, but we at least know one thing. Jim Hendry should not trade MB before TX has finished their Lowell trade. I wondered if a Lowell trade would allow a M. Young for Bradley trade, but more realistically, if the Lowell trade falls through, Hendry can swoop in and offer Bradley instead.
Jim Hendry has been very good in the trade market – not just back in the days of Ramirez and Lee, but also in getting Kyler Burke for Todd Walker, getting three pitching prospects for DeRosa who all upped their value, getting Harden for four players, three of whom aren’t helping Oakland at all. You may not like the way he plays free agency – but he’s not just twiddling his thumbs on Bradley. Be patient.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Good things come to those who wait
And if that’s the case, Cubs fans should get a huge payoff soon.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 14, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
Let's hope it works out that way.
Because otherwise, we are in for another winter of discontent.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So is constant bitching and complaining
even when there’s no real reason to bitch and complain.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 15, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
There is a real reason to worry
The inability to trade MB is handcuffing the team — at least, at the moment. I agree that there’s a lot of offseason left.
But we have little payroll flexibility, holes at positions that are hard to fill — and can’t be filled from within the organization — and a $21 million RF who the team wants nothing to do with.
I’m worried that the longer we have MB on the roster, the longer we have to wait to fill voids at second and center. Do you want Sam Fuld as the opening day centerfielder next year?
I don't want that
And I don’t think he will be.
Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, at least, before you stick your head in the oven (unless you’re doing it to retrieve gingerbread cookies or something).
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2009 1:25 AM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't expect a big deal here..
while i personally like Ankiel, he’s going to be overpriced because of Boras. Church might be the best bet here, and to be honest we could do worse. Byrd to me is going to be pricey as well, plus there’s the possibility that he shows up overweight…like he did last year. chubby CF is not good for covering ground. just throwing that out there. Church is a good player and could handle CF. maybe bring reed back or another low cost right handed outfielder. as much as i hate to say it, i am starting to get on the “keep bradley” band wagon. he’s a better hitter from the right side and that’s where his power comes from anyways, so platoon him with Fukudome and use him as a DH.
Wow. Big mistake reading this before bed.
I’m not all bunched up on Cameron, but Byrd? Is he an upgrade over Fuld/Johnson?
Pie, as I thought this time last year, will become a decent CF.
Anyway, it’s not the lack of movement that has me fuming, it’s that I have no expectation of movement or improvement with the MB situation and backloaded contract nightmare. FYI, this sucks.
I’m jealous of the freakin white sox adding Mark Teahen and Putz. I don’t want a move for changes sake, but need a ray of hope that 2010 won’t be as miserable as the 2009 season. At this point, I might accept a little false hope.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
I’m jealous of the freakin white sox adding Mark Teahen and Putz
dont forget pierre
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 15, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
Pierre not so much.
Teahen would have filled a need and provided depth.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
One other crazy idea
The Braves are looking to move Derek Lowe, and want an outfield bat who has some pop from the right side. Now at the very best, this is a long shot of course and I know that. But it would bring back a quality pitcher, a sinker baller which is nice at Wrigley. obviously it won’t free up money. but we get a quality pitcher, and then still go sign a guy like Church. now before everyone goes all attack mode, please note: i know its an extreme long shot and probs not even in discussion, but a little food for thought at least.
Stop fooling yourselves, Byrd was all Hendry was ever seriously looking at.
love that folks are looking at potential gains……..
…but let’s be honest, Hendry’s already printing Byrd Cubs jerseys. Another unwise Hendry signing after a career year, and a career year that wasn’t even all that great.
Get used to it; as long as we still have Hendry, we still have the plague of the “Hendy guy,” haunting us every offseason. We’ll soon have another mediocre player under contract crippling our ability to make any moves at the trade deadline and next offseason.
Next year’s lineup is already set, once the three-year (or more) big-money Byrd contract is inked by Hendry, he will be the Cubs’ “big” offseason acquisition. There is a greater chance of the Bears winning the next four consecutive Super Bowls than there is that Byrd will not be a Cub next year. It’s over, Hendry will sign Byrd. Stop dreaming of other OFs; it isn’t going to happen.
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Dec 15, 2009 12:33 AM CST reply actions
The real story?
For those peddling the myth that Jim Hendry always overpays and has no restraint, yada yada… check can Dyck’s reporting…
While the Cubs might have been ready for a one-year deal with Lou Piniella-favorite Cameron to play center… the Cubs were not willing to commit two years to Cameron.
On another front, reliever Matt Capps… It is doubtful the Cubs will outbid other teams because they already have a closer in Carlos Marmol and possibilities for setup men.
For my part, I’m glad the Cubs aren’t going to go more than one year for either of these guys.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
That's a good point.
While Cameron’s going to be making “only” $7.5m per year (approximately) with the Red Sox, I’m not sure I would have committed the 2nd year, either.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It's interesting
We have all these complaints about Hendry having no financial restraint and hand-cuffing the payroll. Now that Hendry has shown restraint and avoided a situation where Cameron could have become a two-year version of GMJr (not really a starting CF in 2011), people are complaining about this.
Pick a complaint guys. Either you want him to spend what it takes to get the guys you want or you want him to play the market and sometimes end up with a lesser but cheaper option. The irony is that Hendry has always used both strategies. He let KazMat go to the Astros and Ordonez to the Tigers. And he also decided Soriano and Pierre were the guys he wanted. I don’t think he was right on either Pierre or Soriano – making them must-have acquisitions – but I do think he was right not to make Cameron a must-have acquisition.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Speaking of Ordonez...
… could it still be possible for the Cubs to see if they could deal Bradley to Detroit for him? There are worse choices.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Oh, I'm sure Detroit would do it...
in a straight swap. Why the Cubs would want to absorb that deal is beyond me though.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 15, 2009 9:05 AM CST up reply actions
I dunno...
…it’s a little bit of a gamble consider the ’11 option is incentive based.
2011 option guaranteed at $15M if Ordonez has:
135 starts or 540 PAs in 2010, or
270 starts or 1,080 PAs in 2009-10
In 2009 Ordonez played in 131 games/465 AB’s, so the latter incentive is going to be hard for him to reach.
From cots: http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/detroit-tigers_21.html
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
My friend...
I never underestimate a player’s ability to surprise in a contract year.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 15, 2009 9:12 AM CST up reply actions
So he plays well in '10...
…plays enough for the incentive to kick in, that’s a good thing right? What that means is that we are essentially paying Mags a net difference of $12 for 2011. Yeah not the greatest situation to be in, but this team is clearly built for now.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Maybe...
Although one would argue that given his level of production, the Cubs might be better to eat that cash, then look for a lower-cost alternative, as opposed to taking on even more cash — I’m assuming that this number exceeds what the Cubs are prepared to eat right now — for Magglio.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 15, 2009 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
In a perfect world, of course.
But Hendry has really painted himself into a corner and this was a bad market to do it in.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Well, the good news is that
I’m pretty certain that he’ll paint himself out of it. He’ll eat some cash, and someone will eventually decide that Bradley’s upside looks better than say, life with a Carlos Silva. But this is turning into a full-fledged media fiasco, and I really have to question why in the blue hell do the Ricketts want to leave this Amateur Night image out there in their first season with the club.
The club needs to get ahead of this mess, and quickly.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 15, 2009 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
Yep.
Not dealing Bradley is clearly holding up other moves. Just get it done already.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Why do you say that?
Do you say it because you have info saying that? Or were you just convinced that the Cubs were going to outbid everyone for Mike Cameron?
We should not take Tampa’s deal until we’re certain TX is out – why not wait on Lowell’s thumb?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I'm saying it becasue I have seen no moves since Heilman was traded.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
We acquired two pitchers in the Rule V.
But, do you disagree that the Cubs should wait for the Lowell trade to be finalized before taking Tampa’s deal?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
haha
Acquiring two pitchers in the Rule V hardly disproves Al’s doing, DGU.
I guess those aren't moves, then.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
they're not "moves"
that could have been blocked by the Bradley contract. The point is that Bradley is blocking any high-priced signings, not Rule V picks.
And you’re smart enough to know that.
From Bruce Miles
Hendry also insisted there is no deadline to get a Bradley deal done or that he has to do that before he does anything else.
“The other two or three things that we’ve talked about that we could do really don’t have anything to do with, ‘You have to do this before you do that,’” he said. "In a perfect world, you’d like to add a center fielder. You’d like to move (Kosuke Fukudome to right field from center). We’d like to add a little presence in the bullpen and keep working, a little bench help.
“I think there will be a lot of people available three or four weeks from now, too, in the free-agent market.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
well ...
my point was that Rule V picks are hardly indicative of major moves by the Cubs.
Also, do you really expect Hendry to say something else — and essentially put a “Closed for business” sign up?
I get the point now
and I may have initially missed Al’s point.
But I don’t think – at this point – the Cubs are being handcuffed by Bradley. They probably have a pretty good idea of what they can and can’t get, but do need to wait on TX and the Lowell deal to see if they can get a better deal.
It just doesn’t make sense to me that Hendry would still be trying to explore a Bradley market. He’s done that.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
you might be right
The point is, we don’t have any evidence — other than Hendry’s comments — to the contrary.
I’m taking a wait-and-see approach right now, because it is just Dec. 15. But as I said, I am worried.
Well we don't really have any evidence
that we are hand-cuffed, either.
To me the question is what do you really think Hendry is doing with MB? Do you think he hasn’t talked to all 29 other GMs? If he hasn’t cut him or taken the TB deal, it’s because a better option is possible if things shake out – but by now, Hendry knows what his parameters are.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
oh well, if Jimbo says it
it must be true
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
With all due respect..
Hendry has zero credibility left on the Bradley affair, and I personally disregard anything that he has to say at this point on the matter offhand.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 15, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
That's your right.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I believe it's because
they were tied to both Granderson and Cameron, and fumbled both, with rumors out that they were trying to hold teams off until they found out what cash they had. Had the club better developed, and then executed their off-season strategy, they wouldn’t have to even be open to this criticism.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 15, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
That's possible.
I don’t know for sure; I’m certainly biased by the fact that I always thought Hendry preferred Byrd.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
heh heh...
at first glance, I thought you wrote “…why in the blue lou do the Ricketts want…” and I laughed.
I guess I was thinking it was about time somebody got “verbed” around here – blou seems like an obvious choice. ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Magglio's contract is worth $33 M, based on options.
While your question of Bradley fitting in is a good one, the money factor probably wouldn’t be a concern to Detroit.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
The complaint is
spend wisely. Miles, Bradley, Dome and to some extent Dempster, this has been the latest in the moves by Hendry. He over spent on all.
Is the complaint "Spend wisely" or "Don''t over-spend"?
It’s not the same thing. When you have payroll advantages, there will be times when overspending is wisdom. The Red Sox overspent on a player like Sutaro, for example, but it was a wise overpayment most people are saying.
As for “over-spending” we did not make the highest offers for Dome or Dempster, so what does “over-spending” really mean?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
just because there were higher offers
doesn’t mean we were smarter
it means others were stupider
you don’t seem to understand this concept
being smarter than incompetent franchises shouldn’t be the goal, although i guess those looking for baby steps might place that at the forefront
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
Well, let's take Dome's contract, then.
We know we’ve increased the Cubs’ general market signing him. We know that he brought OBP to this team. We know that he has value if our manager would just value him for what he is, instead of trying to fit him into the wrong place. By fangraphs’ accounting, he’s basically worth what we’re paying him. So, what’s the complaint?
On Bradley — yeah, that blew up in our faces, but who really predicted that Bradley was going to be such a jerk that he’d get suspended. People predicted he’d be a jerk. But no one thought he’d single-handedly destroy the clubhouse that was supposedly too nice and in need of fire.
Dempster, too, has been worth what he’s been paid.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Kosuke ...
I think I can speak for a lot of Cubs fans when I say that I didn’t expect the Cubs to get a platoon outfielder out of $48 million.
value vs. contract
lets take a look at all of Hendry’s signings
2009, using fangraphs
Player Value Salary Impact
Fukudome 10.1 12.5 -2.4
Soriano -3.3 17 -20.3
DLee 23.9 13.3 10.6
Ramirez 11.2 16.7 -5.5
Bradley 4.7 7 -2.3
Miles -5.7 2.2 -7.9
Reed Johnson 1.7 3 -1.3
Dempster 22.7 7.3 15.4
Lilly 12 8 4
Zambrano 12.7 16 -3.3
In total the signings we made cost us $103 million in dollars and in production we received $90 million, that’s $13 million dollars of wasted investment
In total out of the 9 players on the roster who were signed as FA’s or extensions prior to hitting FA, only THREE of them produced to the value of their contract or exceeded it
Throw in the fact that most of these contracts are ESCALATING in value and I’m not sure how you can’t understand the reliance on FA and the poorly spent money in FA is what has hamstrung our roster
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
Just look at those numbers again.
There are two things dragging those numbers down – one is INJURIES and two is the ugly Miles situation that no one really defends, but that realistically didn’t truly cost that much.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
and two things driving those numbers up
1) a resurrection from DLee that wasn’t anticipated
2) ted lilly and ryan dempster’s ERAs being deflated by 1/2 a run each thanks to good fortune
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
So, I guess you think Ramirez will be a -5.5 player going forward
because he’s older.
(I’m playing by your rules now.)
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Kosuke's salary will go up in 2010 and 2011
IIRC. The Kosuke deal was a mistake.
ummm... no
because he’ll likely won’t miss half the season, but that’s anecdotal
here’s where i think the gap widens
1) DLee/Lilly come back down to earth, resulting in say a gain of combined 10 than 15, we’ll lose 5 there
2) Ramirez will likely improve and get back to his 18-20 million value, which will be a positive of say 9 mill there
3) Soriano’s salary increases 2 million more next year, so he’ll have to improve significantly to make headway, i think we’ll continue to lose money there
4) Fukudome’s salary increases 1.5 million more next year, we’ll continue to lose money there
5) Dempster’s jumps up 4.5 million more next year that will erode much of his added value, which was also inflated because of good luck with ERA
6) Milton Bradley’s contract will be a sunk cost as we have to throw money down the drain
7) Zambrano has NEVER been an 18 million pitcher, we’ll lose money there
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
don't blame injuries
when you sign guys to 15+ million dollar contracts there is no wiggle room. in order to get the value you’re paying them they essentially have to be healthy
when you operate on a model that spends that significantly on that many players on your roster, its your own fault because you’re inherently not planning for injuries
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
Who made a higher offer to Dome and Demp?
I would love to see that information. And are those GM’s still in baseball? I love Demp, he is a great guy and good 3/4 starter, but at 15 million per, I don’t think so. Dome is a pro, keeps quiet, good person for all we know. But seriously did you think he would be the player he is now? He is a fine defensive OF, but a average offensive player who is not worth his contract. Do you think anyone in baseball take Soriano, Dempster, Dome or “Z” in trades unless the Cubs eat money? That to me is the factor when you value a contract. These players are unmovable.
I like them as Cubs, however Jim Hendry over paid them.
Kenny Williams - I believe -
said he offered more for Dome. I think Sabean, too. I may be wrong – I’m not going to go back and look these things up.
I also recall hearing that Dempster would have gotten more from the Braves and/or one of the AL East teams. CHONE predicts Dempster to be our best starter next year. To call him a 3/4 starter is to undersell him severely. You should read more of this and less of BLou.
As for what Dome is – I believe he’s been severly mismanaged – with not enough attention given to transitioning him to the travel and schedule of MLB as well as with an inability to identify what role he’s best suited to and sticking him there to stay. You’re right that Dome probably can’t be traded right now – but if he’d be told to play RF, bat 2nd and just get on base, he would be well worth what we’re paying for him.
I agree that Zambrano was overpaid. I think Hendry’s long history with Z has clouded his ability to gauge what Z is and isn’t.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
so did the white sox
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 18, 2009 10:41 PM CST up reply actions
It's easy to say he overspent on those guys.
But did he overspend on Lilly, DLee, Aramis?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
good god
he’s shown restraint BECAUSE he hand-cuffed the payroll
THIS IS THE COMPLAINT
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
You're just wrong.
He showed restraint because he didn’t want to give two years. Cameron probably would have cost more in 2010 on a one year deal.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Hendry and restraint
don’t belong in the same sentence. He “showed restraint” because Ricketts says so.
Hell…….jimbo probably wanted to give cameron 3 yrs at 12 M per…………….
This is the same Hendry
who pursued but ultimately said no to Kazuo Matsui, Jake Peavy, Brian Roberts…
There is a fictional picture of Jim Hendry alive and well on this board, who has absolutely no connection to reality.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
for example:
The Cubs are pursuing Marlon Byrd more intensely, now that Mike Cameron is off the market, according to Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. The Cubs, who wanted Cameron, are still trying to gain payroll flexibility by trading Milton Bradley and at least some of the $21MM he’ll make before the end of the 2011 season.
I'm not crazy about Byrd...
… but I wouldn’t object to a one-year deal and revisit this issue again next year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
He won't sign for 1 year
He’s 32, just had a pretty good (Texas inflated, of course). He probably won’t settle for 1 year unless the market is dead.
why?
were you glad for 2 years on Grabow, but not on Capps who has been a significantly better reliever throughout his career?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
No -
I was clear that I wished the Cubs had just offered arb to Grabow. At the same time, I didn’t think it was worth getting worked up about.
I guess the biggest difference between me and the general direction the rest of the board is heading, is that I can criticize individual moves without thinking we’re going to get a better GM if we fired Hendry.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
i think the biggest difference
is you’re willing to absolve hendry of a lot of the responsibility for where we are now
does Hendry deserve credit for the playoff runs we’ve had, certainly
but he also deserves all of the blame for the situation we’re in now, you like to throw it off on Pineilla or ownership, or everyone else other than Hendry
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Give me a break.
How many times do I have to repeat criticisms of Hendry just because I’m either trying to analyze the whys and wherefores of moves or haven’t gone off the deep end? We are in the middle of three straight years of winning baseball! Go Cubs!
Just because I say we did this because Lou wanted it, doesn’t mean Hendry isn’t responsible. Just because the Trib gave Hendry more payroll than Ricketts appears comfortable giving, doesn’t mean Hendry isn’t responsible for how he spent it.
But at the end of the day, you have to ask, whether Hendry is a good GM on the whole or not. And he is a good GM on the whole.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I think this is the crux of it all
Nobody is saying Hendry is entirely blameless here. But on the whole, he has done a good job, and he hits more often than he misses.
Many of the more fervent Hendry opponents here see none of the good and bash every decision he makes. They hold him responsible for everything from belly-button lint to the heartbreak of psoriasis. I guess that makes the Hendry defenders dig in their heels even more.
Not to get political, but it reminds me of some of the more rabid Bush haters. I think they might have made Bush supporters defend him more than they would have liked, even if they didn’t always agree with him.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 15, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
Has he?
The Cubs are just above .500 during Hendry’s tenure, while having one of the top payrolls in the game? How, exactly, does that equal a good job?
Compared to the unmitigated disaster things once were
I’d say it’s pretty good. And they didn’t always have one of the top payrolls in the game, either.
If players underperformed at times, that wasn’t Hendry’s fault. More often than not, he has put the right pieces in place.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 15, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
that's such a low bar
for comparison
since Hendry’s been the GM the club has averaged 81.75 wins a season
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/
the average payroll has been: ~$97.5 Million
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-cubs_112114177768677294.html
Now i’m not sure where that ranks over the entire 8 year span, but based on this study done from 2006-2008
http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2009/03/mlb-team-payrolls-2006-2007-2008-efficiency-analysis/
that would be a clear top half of MLB payroll with very middling results
Hendry’s had as much bad as good on the whole, but when you’re given a Top 10 budget constraint every year and average basically a .500 season, I don’t think you’re doing a great job
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
So compared to absolute shit...
he’s been better? Okay, I agree. But if that’s your only way of saying he’s done a good job… well, that says it all.
Hendry's payroll has only hit this level
in recent years. During the McPhail era there were years we were outspent by both Houston and St. Louis (not every year).
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
budgets
Cubs
* 2009: $134,809,000
* 2008: $118,345,833
* 2007: $ 99,670,332
* 2006: $ 94,424,499
* 2005: $ 87,032,933
* 2004: $ 90,560,000
* 2003: $ 79,868,333
* 2002: $ 75,690,833
Cardinals
* 2009: $ 88,528,409
* 2008: $ 99,624,449
* 2007: $ 90,286,823
* 2006: $ 88,891,371
* 2005: $ 92,106,833
* 2004: $ 83,228,333
* 2003: $ 83,786,666
* 2002: $ 74,660,875
Astros
* 2009: $102,996,414
* 2008: $ 88,930,414
* 2007: $ 87,759,000
* 2006: $ 92,551,503
* 2005: $ 76,779,000
* 2004: $ 75,397,000
* 2003: $ 71,040,000
* 2002: $ 63,448,417
Assuming the Brewers, Pirates, Reds, were all behind these 3 teams in payroll those years (which is a very fair assumption, i just dont have the energy to go post it), the Cubs finished ranked in the division this way during Hendry’s tenure:
2002: 1st
2003: 2nd
2004: 1st
2005: 2nd
2006: 1st
2007: 1st
2008: 1st
The Astros have never spent more than the Cubs, and the Cardinals just twice in hendry’s 8 years have outspent the Cubs
If you total it up you get:
Cubs
Money Spent: $780,401,763
Wins: 654
Cards
Money Spent: $701,113,759
Wins: 725
Money Spent: $658,901,748
Wins: 667
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
woops
forgot my Cots links
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/houston-astros.html
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/st-louis-cardinals_111971260115041890.html
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-cubs_112114177768677294.html
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
small market teams have to be much more resourceful
no doubt. looking at 2003-2009 (since Hendry’s 1st full season was 03’), the BoSox have actually been less efficient on a per-win basis ($1.32M/win) than the Cubs ($1.21M/win). If you only consider the regular season, Hendry has been relatively efficient with the payrolls he’s had. The lack of playoff success during his tenure, fairly or unfairly, is where his legacy will probably be decided…
yeah i was giving him credit for '02
but he was promoted in July, so that might not be fair to put on him and since ’02 was such a bad year, it would actually raise his wins up to 83.5 per season, of course his average payroll would go up as well
all dollars are created equal, all wins are not. Winning 83 games in the NL Central is far easier to do than winning 83 games in the AL East, so I don’t mind that BOS is less efficient. They also do what is necessary (spend more than the Cubs) to make themselves a world series contender, and generally do it the right way (produce enough stars internally to be able to be tactical in FA)
Hendry’s been adequate as a GM, but i don’t think the lack of playoff success is the only place he’ll be judged
he inherited a pretty good situation given where the cubs were with young talent (Zambrano, Prior, Wood, Choi, Patterson) and did a good job at turning in some of those pieces into the stars of today
The problem he always had was allocation of FA dollars. He’s always fished in the middle pond which during this period 2003-2009 has been the easiest area to blow money and the one time he dipped into the big pond, he picked the wrong guy (Soriano)
He’s been great with trades and if he hadn’t messed around with middling FA’s and instead dumped that money into the farm system, he’d likely have the financial flexibility needed to have done more.
I think he got off to a great start as a GM, but has faded as the pressure to “win every offseason” has been building
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
Are you unable to draw a distinction between
the spike the Cubs had in 08-09 and the rest of the time?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
ummm...
i’m not the one who posted:
in recent years. During the McPhail era there were years we were outspent by both Houston and St. Louis (not every year).
look i’m just providing the facts, from 2002-2009 we were only outspent by 1 team in our division on 2 calendar years. Hendry’s been given the largest budget by far of all his competitors and racked up fewer wins than his competitors
if you take out 2008 and 2009’s budget you’ll notice he was still ahead of the Cardinals although much closer, and still far ahead of the astros. Of course if you take out 2008 and 2009 you’re also taking out two years in which he averaged 90 wins
so if you want to judge him from 2003-2007 when payrolls were the same as the Cards and he averaged 81.4 wins/year while the cardinals averaged 90.2 wins/year we can do that too
which would you prefer?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
I do want to separate the times Hendry's budgets have been significantly closer to the Astros and Cards
because there’s this nonsense being floated in one line curses on BCB everyday that Hendry’s payroll is so much higher than his opponents that he should be in the playoffs every year. Well, Hendry’s been in the playoffs 2/3 years when his payroll has been higher and year three was riddled with injuries.
I do think Hendry in 2003-2007 was out-GM’ed by Walt Jocketty. As I’ve defended Hendry, I’ve always said there are better GMs – I just don’t think those GMs are 1) available right now and 2) always the GMs people think they are.
I think during the McPhail era, we were better at being creative and finding bargains, but we also failed to succeed at getting the free agents who fit our needs. That failure may have been McPhail overriding Hendry, may have been Trib being stingy, may have been Hendry’s decisions alone. But there was clearly an overreaction that led to getting the top free agent hitter – Soriano – who was the best kind of lead-off hitter Jim Hendry could look for back then. Since then, he’s learned to value OBP a lot more and Soriano became a misfit.
But it’s absolutely clear to anyone who looks objectively at Jim Hendry’s body of work that a big change happened with McPhail’s presence/absence and that since Lou’s input has risen, that OBP has become much, much more valued.
For my part, I despised Hendry’s ignoring of OBP earlier – hated the Juan Pierre trade. So, I’m surprised to hear you liking Hendry earlier on. What is your criteria?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
early on was '03-'-04
when he traded Bobby Hill for Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton
when he traded Hee Seop Choi for Derrek Lee
when he traded for Michael barrett
when he turned Hundley into Karros/Grudzielanek
when he brought Maddux back
after 2004 he’s largely been terrible
but in 2003 and the offseason there after he made a few big moves that set us up for where we were
since the end of 2004 i think he’s been amongst the worst GMs in baseball
he’s wasted money on: Jeromy Burnitz, Jacque Jones, Neifi Perez, alfonso soriano, jason marquis, john grabow, etc
he’s refused to give young players with a minor league track record an extended shot: Matt Murton, Felix Pie
he’s handed out NTC’s like they’re tic-tacs
and he’s handcuffed the team for years to come with inordinately large long-term deals that can’t be moved
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2009 6:49 AM CST up reply actions
Thank you
Hendry is a “C” student. His early success has given him this grade. When he has had the money he has blown it, when he has had restraints he seems to fair better. Lets hope with restraints now, he will find a few low key signings that help this team.
Hendry has done OK, but these latest signings ( Dempster, Miles, Bradley, Dome, “Z”) have really strapped the Cubs and put them in a corner.
There's no reason to keep arguing over this.
The Hendry haters refuse to be objective. I mean seriously, you are getting your panties in a bind over Perez? You’re still hung up on Matt freaking Murton? Really?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
how have i not been objective?
i’ve stated he did a great job early on, i’ve stated he deserves credit for the playoff runs
i’ve also stated he’s completely responsible for the current situation
how is this not objective?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
I'm trying to reconcile these statements
he deserves credit for the playoff runs
since the end of 2004 i think he’s been amongst the worst GMs in baseball
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
the playoff runs were set up largely
by moves made in ‘03-’04, particularly the trades for Ramirez, Lee who are far and away our most productive players.
the rest of the reason we went to the playoffs isn’t because he spent dollars effectively or efficiently, its because he just spent more than everyone else
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
Step back and see how blinded you're getting
You’re basically arguing that Soriano, Lilly, and DeRosa haven’t been a big part of the last two championship runs, nor the decisions to go with Soto as C, Dempster as a starter, the conversion of Marmol from C to reliever, etc.
If he had just spent more than everyone else, we’d have had Zito and Castillo.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
you're missing my point entirely
i’ve pointed out to you before that we’ve basically been spending dollar for dollar the production we’ve gotten out of these players when you roll the contracts over their lifetime. Some have been successes like Lilly, Dempster, others have been albatrosses like Soriano, Miles, Fukudome, etc. Some have been middle of the road. (Note I lump Soriano in albatross because so far he’s produced $33.4 million while paid $41 million, this gap is only going to expand)
In total we’ve spent a little more than we’ve earned in production. This is typically the result of relying on the FA market.
The areas we’ve garnered value above cost have been from trades made with DLee and Aramis in ‘03 and ’04. They have been the foundation we’ve been able to build around
My point is: If we’re getting equivalent value out of FA dollar for dollar compared to everyone else relying on FA, we’re not getting better value than everyone else, we’re just spending more.
So during the years when we had equivalent budgets to the other teams in the division (though still higher) we were getting outclassed by the Astros and Cardinals consistently.
But now, by spending more we’ve helped ensure competitiveness in a bad division over the last 3 years. By saying alright. F-it. We can’t compete with the same payroll as you all because we’re not smart enough, so we’re going to buy our way into short-term contention.
But even this hasn’t worked tremendously, we’ve averaged just 88 wins in a terrible division. I’ve already expressed to you how unlikely it is to win a world series at less than 90 wins… and to be really good and world series contender good we needed basically career years from half the roster and complete health from our starting rotation
Other big market teams like the Yankees and Red Sox have been able to build teams that can be 90+ win teams in tougher leagues while not needing career seasons out of half the roster. They’ve been able to do this either through tremendous drafting (Red Sox) or by spending on the right FAs (Yankees), i.e. overpaying for superior talent (Sabathia, Teixeira)
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
I think part of the frustration here
is that I haven’t been clear about what I agree with you on. I agree that we need to be developing talent from the farm to stabilize a long-term competitive team. This is why I was so adament that we be willing to go from a 97 win team to a 95 win team in 2007 if that sacrifice led to the development of Felix Pie. Right now, we need to develop the growing high-upside collection we have, taking into account some of them will bust.
So we agree on that stuff.
My argument is that the core of this team is strong enough, that if St. Louis doesn’t add to their team greatly this off-season, it’s worth short-term moves, because the odds are good enough.
And really, you’ve somewhat agreed with a lot of that. And Hendry appears to be on that path.
So after all that, our big disagreement is when you go overboard and say Hendry has been terrible.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
i like to view it as
me saying Hendry has been terrible since 2004
you saying Hendry hasn’t been terrible because its the ownership or his managers fault
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
Well that's not what I'm saying.
Because Hendry’s made moves to get us to the playoffs since 2004, because Hendry’s acquiring better players on the whole now that he appreciates OBP, etc. Oh well.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
You've lost perspective.
The Nomar trade and the Harden trade were nearly as good as the Lee and Rami trades – it’s just that Nomar’s and Harden’s health made it smarter to cut bait than give them long-term deals. I also think we’re going to look back by the end of 2010 and be surprised we got Gorzelanny so cheaply. We’ve also seen Hendry make the brilliant signing of DeRosa and Lilly, the turnaround of Dempster, the prescient pickups and dumpings of Kendall and Edmonds.
Jacque Jones was worth his salary the two years we kept him. We traded him before he went bust for a very good SS. See here.
Jeromy Burnitz was a one year deal stop-gap – the only player left after the Sosa saga, and a much better buy than if we’d outbid the Tigers for Maggs. You don’t get to have it both ways – complaining when Hendry gives out long-term deals and complaining when he goes cheaper. Free agency is imperfect – and yet, Burnitz was worth more than we paid him. See here.
Marquis has been worth more than he’s been paid both by total contract and year-by-year. See here.
Alfonso Soriano got us to the playoffs – but that’s a waste to you, I do understand. I don’t think getting to the playoffs is a waste to most Cub fans.
Matt Murton did not have a promising minor league track record when Jim Hendry did give him a chance. Felix Pie did have that track record and Hendry fought his manager to give Pie a chance. In the end, Hendry gave in to Lou and that’s on him.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
incredibly short sighted
1) you’re not taking into account the dollars paid to other teams to support the salary for the final year we dealt some of these guys like Jones, Marquis, etc into the equation in whether it was a loss or not
2) building off of the first point you’re not taking into account the impact of these backloaded deals and instead citing performance during the period where the contract was less
soriano may have helped get us to the playoffs, but he’s going to keep us from the playoffs for 3-4 years. is that worth it in the end?
Look i’ve showed you every number you’ve asked for that has dictated Hendry has been out-managed by his competition in the division both when given an extended budget and when given the same budget. He’s averaged less wins and spent more dollars
This is compared to a division that is largely non-competitive with the rest of baseball.
I don’t know what else to say.
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
If you don't want to keep going around on this, that's fine.
I respect you as a poster here and think we agree about a whole lot more than we disagree about.
That said, I do have a few responses.
From 2003-2009 there have been 2 wild card teams from the NL Central and 3 World Series teams from the NL Central. There’s no substantiation for your statement that this dvision is largely non-competitive. When I say the NL Central is soft, I mean that it appears to be going into a soft time right now. But when Hendry came into the division, both St. Louis and Houston were very strong. That St. Louis team was coming off three straight 93+ win seasons.
Now, regarding Hendry’s deals, I think you can judge them regardless of whether we traded the player or not. But taking into account the trading of Marquis – he was 1) worth it when we paid him and 2) worth trading to give an opening to Marshall and Wells. JJ’s salary turned out to be worth Infante, but we traded Infante in a bad deal for Ascanio – but Ascanio turned into Gorzelanny? Oh – I’m just lost now.
I reserve judgment on whether Soriano will actually keep us from the playoffs. That seems too strong to backup, but I’ve never hesitated to say that those last few years don’t look good. On the whole, a single year of injury-induced-suckiness doesn’t worry me that much – it’s going to happen to every long-term signed player. And I was really surprised how good Soriano was the first two years of the contract. So, we’ll see. This next year will tell us a lot. He could easily be good enough to not be a hindrance from winning later on.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
NL Central from 2003-2009
RPI from espn.com
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rpi
Team 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003
Cubs (17, 4, 16, 30. 17, 7, 10)
Cards (12, 12, 22, 22, 2, 1, 12)
Astros (24, 11, 29, 17, 11, 4, 11)
Brewers (20, 9, 19, 27, 18, 20, 25)
Reds (22, 22, 28, 24, 21, 18, 26)
Pirates (29, 24, 30, 29, 27, 21, 22)
Average RPI Finish from 2003-2009
Cubs – 10.5
Cards – 11.8
Astros – 15.3
Brewers – 19.7
Reds – 23
Pirates – 26
We average having half the division in the bottom 3rd of baseball every year
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
It's not who's at the bottom that's important
It’s who’s at the top, and in those first three years, the Astros and Cards were tough. 2006-2007 the Central was soft. 2008 saw a really solid Brewers team add C.C. Sabathia; 2009 the Cards had two Cy Youngs.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
and the top...
on average has been the 9th best team in baseball
as a reminder 8 teams make the playoffs, so on average the NL Central has provided a team worse than the top 8
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
And yet have managed to be in the WS
3/7 times…
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Just goes to show you why making your entire offseason revolve around getting rid of Milton Bradley isn't a good idea
I want Milton Bradley gone as much as the next guy, but if you can’t find a trade for him, cut your losses and move forward. I’m not buying into the “sky is falling” philosophy, but suspending Bradley near the end of the season was the worst possible move Jim Hendry could make if he wanted to deal Bradley. He has no leverage in the deal whatsoever and I feel justified in saying there is no market for Bradley. There is, but only if we essentially pay him to play elsewhere. The easy solution would simply be to eat the remaining years of his contract, but Hendry knows his job is on the line and that’s a quick way to get fired. He should have been fired once ownership changed hands, but I’m not owner of the Chicago Cubs.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
I'm not sure this is the case
If Cameron was guaranteed a second year by Boston, then I’m not so sure that I would want the Cubs to match that regardless of Bradley.
As for the suspension, you don’t know what Bradley would have done had he not been suspended. Maybe he would have really gone bat crap crazy. I’mnto going to criticize Hendry for that.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 15, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
Hendry is a prisoner of his own past
He has no money this year to make the moves Cub fans have become accustomed to and frankly I don’t think he has to make any big moves. However, most alarming to me is that there seems to be a persistent blind spot when it comes to the team’s lack of a real leadoff hitter. Pinella basically tagged Theriot as leadoff hitter in his comments earlier this week which to me is just asking for trouble. Yes, this team scored ALOT of runs in 2008 without a natural leadoff hitter but I think that was more fluke than the rule. Theriot can’t steal bases, doesn’t draw walks and to me if this team could have just addressed getting a Chone Figgins (or a lesser version of his ilk) I’d feel a lot more confident about the team.
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