Trade Lee for Top Prospects
by CUBFANINAZ on Dec 15, 2009 6:54 PM CST
Email
PrintIf he opts out of his NTC and trade top prospects for Adrian Gonzales . Core of the Cubs are getting older . Or pay some of his salary to San Diego and add in some top prospects .. Lets think about the Cubs future . Derrick Lee should only have a few more productive years ahead of him . Adrian Gonzales is a lot younger to play first base for the Cubs for years to come . Time to think ahead ..
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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He is getting older
IMO only a few more productive years left .
First of all, I don't understand who you want to trade Lee for
the title suggests Top Prospects, while the body paragraph suggests Adrian Gonzalez
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
prospects
Since SD is looking for a small payroll . Prospects from another team , then with the new prospects and the Cubs put a package together for Gonzales
I don't think it was a title line but more one sentence
kind of like what people do in the comments.
I am saying
only D. Lee .. Aram IMO is still young , what I am saying Lee is getting older and Gonzales will be around for the future ..
What I am saying
Is to pull off a trade like the Phillys did with Halladay . Sending Lee off for prospects from Seattle along with the Philly’s prospects to obtain Halladay from the Toronto . Trade D . LEE to some team in return for prospects then trade combination of prospects to Padres for Adrian Gonzales
Perfect Logic
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
Actually that picture in inaccruate
2 does not equal a number. 2 is a number. And 1 is a number. But 2 is not 1.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 16, 2009 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
Likewise
“in” is not a being verb.
"I have the time and hatred but not the knowledge." ~Madison Cub Fan (Aug. 25, 2009)
ok, nit picker. The picture is clearly wrong, whereas in is more than likely a typo.
although i understand he, himself, was nitpicking in the first place.
by Rhymenoceros on Dec 16, 2009 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
Nitpicking good
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
You realize there's a BIG difference
Between DLee and Halladay right? It’s not gonna happen.
Yes BUT
Hendry could so to speak ‘test the market ’ .. DLee could bring in some good prospects from another team , then along with the Cubs prospects ,you would think the Cubs should have something of value to trade to San Diego for Gonzales .. Some people suggested to blow up the team .. IMO the Cubs have a pretty good core .. But on the back end I think DLee is starting to get old .. I"m only saying add to the core with a younger and my opinion a better first baseman . Unless the Cubs farm system is that bad , but with the addition of the prospects the Cubs recieve in trade , the Cubs have to have something the Padre’s may want
I think the Mariners are fresh out of high quality prospects after the Lee deal
And the Padres are going to want a boat load for Gonzalez. I don’t see how the Cubs can raise the currency for that deal, even if Lee would be willing to go to Seattle.
it's got potential...
…but you can’t rush things like this. They have to develop on their own – slowly at first and then BAM! A veritable plethora of posting prowess comes out of nowhere!
Cross your fingers…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Maybe this open the flood gate
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
And you don't think this has all the ingredients?
It’s got a crazy trade proposal; it’s got agreement by the radical wing; it’s got marginal grammar and style. Everything’s there. I hope it explodes soon.
Where this is heading
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
Lmfao!
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 15, 2009 8:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
What a nightmare
Imagine your wife seeing this horrible depiction of herself on your arm.
We're not scaremongering (nightmare of a season continues), this is really happening (Bears are more than done) - Radiohead
Um,
judging by the inscription above the tattoo, I’m not so sure she’ll be seeing the tattoo.
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07
she's seeing it
from HEAVEN.
Or she’s a zombie, which makes the picture more accurate anyway.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
Oh
The picture was so distracting that I missed the inscription.
We're not scaremongering (nightmare of a season continues), this is really happening (Bears are more than done) - Radiohead
you are all bad, bad, bad, :)
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 16, 2009 8:29 PM CST up reply actions
So says you but I think this is worst
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
that's definitely worse...and oh so weird
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 16, 2009 9:04 PM CST up reply actions
He should be given some kind of award for that
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - final words of Dexter season 4
no...
that is the single coolest whifro ever. The sheer physics behind it is breath-taking.
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Its a wig.
The dude has over 400.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 17, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Agree 100%
The smart move would be to put Derrek Lee, Aramis Ramirez and Carlos Zambrano on the block and begin an earnest rebuilding program that is desperately needed.
The kool-aid drinkers can live in their fantasy world and rationalize away the problems of the Cubs by taking potshots at St. Louis, Milwaukee, etc.
But a visionary organization led by top flight baseball people (not assclown Kenny Crane) would step in and begin the process top to bottom.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2009 6:58 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
hahahahahah
do you have anything nice to say about this team?? Really?? Really?? Trade Essentially our two greatest players, Zambrano and Ramirez who are still relatively young, for prospects? wow..
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Tbh
I wouldn’t mind shopping Zambrano. He’s been overrated and overpaid for quite some time. Problem is, I’m not sure the return would justify the move for this upcoming season. There’s a lot of years (3 and a vesting option – granted, I don’t see him finishing number 2 in the Cy Young come 2011, and I’m not sure that he’d finish top 4 and stay healthy in 2012, but it’s possible) and money (um … off the top, I think it’s 53.75 mil guaranteed, with … uh 19 mil option?) left that I’m not sure we could get quality (now, someone on Sickels has suggested Maine/Niewenhuis/Havens or Tejeda/C+ pitcher – I think we could get better quality or a better match). After 2010, when we know how our top young arms have matured, and with one less year on Zambrano’s deal,
Although … with Lackey off the market … if the team wanted to float him out there (which I don’t expect), I wouldn’t be against exploring it. There might be a desperate team out there with some money (Angels perhaps?)
by toonsterwu on Dec 15, 2009 7:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The Angels
Are in the market for a #1 starter, I agree that Hendry should at least give them a call in regards to Z.
What the hell
Lets pretend that this team is a Marlon Byrd away from World Series glory and hang onto Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez to infinity and beyond.
This is the mindset that contributes to a 102 year World Series drought. The Cardinals, Phillies, Angels, Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, Marlins even the White Sox laugh at the Cubs. This thing is a clusterfuc*.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2009 7:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
yes, they have little parties where they don't invite the Cubbies
So simiarly, two years removed from a WS Ring, the Red Sox should have traded David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez because they are old and worthy of being traded for prospects. Your argument for those three players don’t make sense, maybe somewhat for Lee. But you honestly can tell me with a straight face that trading Zambrano and Ramirez would be good for this team?
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Ugh
You’re comparing the current state of the Boston Red Sox to the CHicago Cubs ?!?!? The Red Sox are blessed with a brilliant GM, one of the best farm systems in baseball which consistently pumps out high quality talent to plug and play, or trade (ala the Yankees).
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
ICE IN HIS BASESTEALING VEINS!
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
I never said Zambrano or Ramirez
I would keep those two . Still young . I am talking about D. LEE who is getting older .
I wasn't talking to you, BLou suggested trading those two players
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
I am getting older
You are getting older
He/she/it is getting older
We are getting older
You are getting older
They are getting older
So what?
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
by eths on Dec 16, 2009 5:39 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
You're older than you've ever been
And now you’re even older
And now you’re even older
And now you’re even older
You’re older than you’ve ever been
And now you’re even older
And now you’re older still
Yeah trading our 3 best players for prospects who might not pan out is a great plan. Particularly since the team is built to win now we should totally scrap that idea and just go to rebuilding mode just for funsies. Great idea.
by Liverpoolcubsfan on Dec 16, 2009 6:56 PM CST up reply actions
NTC
They already asked Lee if he would accept a trade last year or the year before, and he said he would exercise his right. Aram and Big Z would be the guys to trade, along with Theriot.
We're not scaremongering (nightmare of a season continues), this is really happening (Bears are more than done) - Radiohead
theres no doubt in my mind
that if the cubs did that youd complain that the prospects they got from them suck or will become corey patterson
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 15, 2009 7:30 PM CST up reply actions
He'd complain if we won the World Series
Every year for the next decade.
they didnt go 11-0
this is bullcrap!
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 16, 2009 4:34 PM CST up reply actions
Jim Hendry didn't build a team to win more than one Championship
He should be fired!
Kool-Aid Drinkers? OH, YEEEAAAAAHHHHH!
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 15, 2009 11:53 PM CST up reply actions
Rich people are called eccentric not crazy
You’re just crazy. What market is there for each of these players?
Lee is a 34 year old 1B who is due $13MM in 2010. Mid-year, some team may want him, ala Thome. But don’t expect a big return.
Zambrano is due almost $60MM and just finished a 9-7 but did win the highly touted Sliver Slugger award for a pitcher…
Ramirez is due $32MM and just crapped out for the second time on the same shoulder.
How much of these contracts would the Cubs need to pay to get those top flight prospects? A lot, most, more than half.
If you want another team to pay the freight for the player, you don’t get their top prospects.
STL wanted Holliday. STL paid dearly to get him. I don’t see any team wanting to pay dearly to get Lee, Ramirez, or Crazy Z. So the Cubs have to pay part of the contract and get mid-level prospects.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 16, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
Let's trade the one guy who didn't have a down year?
And who’s Derrick?
I AGREE. LET'S TRADE HIM!
IF WE HAVE HIM, TRADE HIM.
I REPEAT.
IF WE HAVE HIM, TRADE HIM FOR GONZALEZ!!!
"It's hard to win 97 games, it's hard to win the division. Our attitude is if you get in every year, you get in most of the time, sooner or later you are going to knock that door down." -- Jim Hendry
by EJThunder on Dec 15, 2009 7:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If you are really serious......
you would look into trading ARAM and BigZ.
The problem is that this will never, ever happen. The Cubs are locked into this team because of the contracts. They have to win now. IMHO we don’t have time to wait two plus years for players to develop.
This team can win. If the players come back to their averages they will win the Central. Once the playoffs start, it is a crap shoot.
by timeforachange2009 on Dec 15, 2009 7:04 PM CST reply actions
I'd hold onto Aramis in this hypothetical
Coming off an injury-marred campaign, I’d rather wait another year.
Yeah, he wouldn't get anything close to fair value in the offseason
In July, if he has stayed healthy, it could be a much better market. If moving him makes sense, which is not a given.
That's a load of hoey
New ownership has taken control. That is the perfect rationalization for taking a step back and being OBJECTIVE about things. Tom Ricketts didn’t create this mess. But he can sure in the hell be the desperately needed leader who says enough is enough and that he isn’t going to live under delusionment on what this current group is capable of on the field.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Ok....
I don’t disagree with you about bringing in new leadershipwho can review the talent. The problem is that all of the big contract players (minus DLee) had off years in 2009.
How much value are you going to get for BigZ coming off a down year?
How much value are you going to get for ARam coming off his injury?
How much value are you going to get for DLee?
As you know this team has almost 20 mil per locked into Soriano. His contract is a deal breaker because it is untradeable (unless they take on the majority of the money). Even with new leadership, I think you have to look back at 08 and hope that the players come back to their averages. You try to get one more year out of this crew and then re-evaluate.
by timeforachange2009 on Dec 15, 2009 7:45 PM CST up reply actions
And it's very possible
that most of those guys who had a down year have another average season, and/or get injured. The core of this team is old, and very injury-prone. Why take the chance when they can continue to fill their farm with higher level prospects? Ricketts stated that this is his philosophy, not holding onto players until their value drops quicker than the nasdaq.
We're not scaremongering (nightmare of a season continues), this is really happening (Bears are more than done) - Radiohead
re: OP's general idea
I’m not against it … but I don’t know if we can get the 2nd part of the deal done. I’m not sure we have the right match for the Padres, and if we do, it would come at an extremely steep cost, which would impact the ability to rebuild.
I still think the better bet is to let this current string play out, and see how our kids develop.
Except that the market value of Lee, Ramirez and Zambrano will never be higher
And if you do really have faith in some of the young prospects percolating up through the system, then why not maximize your return on key marketable veterans and add to that emerging mix.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Problem is
D. Lee has a NTC, so his destination will be extremely limited. Z’s contract is huge, he can be a pain. Ramy really is the only one who could be moved and to be honest the best hitter the Cubs have. They are not going anywhere nor should they.
I disagree.....
I think the value of ARAM and BigZ is at an all time low.
ARam is coming off an injury and BigZ had a down year.
IMHO you have to let these two play the season out.
by timeforachange2009 on Dec 15, 2009 8:27 PM CST up reply actions
Agree with your analysis
If Zambrano had won 16-18 games last year, another team might be willing to swallow his contract. But then, no here would want to trade him, would they? It is also a little hard to see the Cubs getting value for him in July – if he is pitching to his salary it is likely the team will be in contention and not willing to trade him. If the Cubs are out of contention and willing to move him, he is probably not pitching to his $$$$$.
re:
I think the market value of Ramirez and Zambrano could be higher. In Zambrano’s case, it has little to do with him and more to do with the contract. The contract is likely to hinder, in a hypothetical (I don’t think anyone really anticipates Carlos being dealt), his value this offseason. In ARam’s case, if he is healthy for most of next season, his value is likely higher as well.
In Lee’s case, I agree the market value is at it’s peak right now. Problem is that, if you hold onto the rest of the veterans, the only rationale to make this move would be if you could get a top player like Adrian Gonzalez, which I don’t anticipate (not saying we couldn’t make the move, just that I’m not sure we match with the Padres).
I do have faith in several pieces in our system, but unless we go with a full bore rebuilding, which I don’t believe will happen and which I don’t agree with (I think Ramirez/Zambrano could have better value after 2010), then I think you let this string play out.
ramirez's stock will rise this year
just in time for him to opt out of his contract at the end of the season, again.
by circuitclout on Dec 15, 2009 8:48 PM CST up reply actions
perhaps
but if he does well, stays healthy this year and the Cubs fall out, then you deal him at midseason.
You can't
The Cubs managed to give Ramirez a contract that includes a full no-trade clause through the end of this year, at which point he can opt out of his contract. His contract also includes a million dollar “assignment bonus” if he does accept a trade and a player option for 2012 at $14.6 million. So while he isn’t necessarily untradeable any trade would be complicated because Ramirez can control where he goes and any team that acquires him would likely need a decision on the player option up front.
by circuitclout on Dec 15, 2009 9:06 PM CST up reply actions
That's a typical Hendry move
He just continues to handcuff this franchise for the future.
We're not scaremongering (nightmare of a season continues), this is really happening (Bears are more than done) - Radiohead
Thanks toonsterwu
This was the type of debate I was looking for
If the Cubs where to trade Lee...
… this off season would be the time to do it. He isn’t getting younger, and I dunno if he is going to have anymore seasons like this lst one. A lot of people wanted to see the Cubs trade him last off-season… haha, I won’t name names…
I dunno… I personally wouldn’t mind to see Lee finish his career with the Cubs.
it's not implausible that
the Padres deal Adrian, so the idea that we could go after him isn’t that farfetched. There’s some rumoring/speculating that Boston is setting up for another run at Adrian Gonzalez (with the fallback plan being Adrian Beltre). Personally, I think the Padres wait another year, but I also think Jed Hoyer will continue Kevin Towers rebuilding, so if a good deal comes along, I don’t think he would pass it up.
That said, I’m not sure we match, and if we do, it’d likely cost us too much to make it worthwhile (the intent to deal for Adrian would be to extend our window, but we’d need some young talent as value to make it happen).
Your right toonsterwu
Looks like Boston is in the lead for Adrian Gonzales .. He’s young and top notch now , IMO Gonzales is going to be a superstar .. It would take a hugh deal to swing a deal of this magnitude .. I just feel D.Lee is getting old . And Gonzales could take the place of him and maybe even better at it ..
Recd and understood
I’m just skeptical of the Cubs’ ability to put together a better package than others are likely to offer. It’s not like Gonzalez is some well-hidden secret – he has hit 30+ HRs in San Diego 3 years running and led the NL in walks last year. I’d want to see the Cubs do this as a 3-team deal, because if they trade Lee without getting a replacement/upgrade that is effectively flushing 2010 and they may as well start moving other salaries, too. And SD won’t want Lee.
I also have a hard time seeing how another team in the deal wouldn’t just go ahead and throw in more of their own propects to get Gonzalez themselves. Why would they want to take Lee instead?
I just threw this crazy trade out there
What I was thinking after hearing of two this off season three team trades . Arizona , New York ,Detroit .. Then the other three-team trade involving Philly , Seattle , and Blue Jays for the Lee trade .. Just thought the Cubs might get a little creative with another team or two to trade Lee and a few prospects to a third team for their prospects and or players that San Diego might want along with a player or prospect from the Cubs.. Just some creativity to pull of a trade like this .. I also noticed reading here that Lee is a big fan favorite of this site . I like Lee too , BUT Lee is getting older and I am thinking about the future picking up a player that is seven years younger and better ..
Derrek Lee has 10-and-5 rights.
Which means he can reject any trade. He’s not going anywhere.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's a good point, Al
NTCs are largely irrelevant for a lot of these guys, because they’re 10-and-5 guys, anyway, no?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 22, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
Correct, although...
… Lee and Ramirez are the Cubs’ only 10-and-5 players.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
its not plausible
because SD wouldn’t want Lee in return who makes more money
the idea of trading gonzalez would be to get a number of good prospects and to shed salary committments
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2009 6:39 AM CST up reply actions
huh
that’s exactly what i said in the last line – that it might cost us too much (I thought it was implied that I was referring to prospects, if not, I apologize).
I was simply responding to Damen’s post that the idea that the Padres might deal Adrian isn’t implausible. Also, what the OP has suggested is that we find a way to give top prospects and pay for part of Derrek’s salary.
I agree it won’t happen …
I wasn't suggesting dealing Gonzalez
wasn’t plausible. I said turning Derrek Lee into Gonzalez was.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 16, 2009 8:08 AM CST up reply actions
i was suggesting
it didn’t make sense from the padres perspective, not from ours
why would they want DLee as a bigger chip in the package rather than more prospects even if we were to pay much of his salary (which again would be ludicrous to give up prospects and pay for DLee)
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2009 8:09 AM CST up reply actions
the op's suggestion
unless i’m reading it wrong is that we find a way to get them top prospects and pay part of lee’s contract for a year. why we’d do that? I don’t know, but tis a hypothetical..
Well why do it half way....
Blow the team up. Trade away anyone and everything that has any value. We can spend the next two to three challenging the Royals.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
Do you just make this up ?
Let ’s the Padres who traded Peavy to slash payroll want one year of Lee because ? Oh I guess the Cubs will pay the entire 13 million dollor salary and throw in Castro. Vitters & Cashner and Lee will agree to spend a year with a bad team because he just loves the weather in CA ? . I thought that contest /post on crazy deals had ended.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
I think he was suggesting
trading Lee for prospects and then flipping said prospects in a deal for Gonzalez.
Even more farfetched
Who is going to give you top prospect for one year of Lee at 13 Million ? If they had prospects that good THEY WOULD JUST TRADE FOR GONZALEZ THEMSELVES.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2009 7:47 PM CST up reply actions
Combination of prospects
The Cubs and or combination of teams
No one is going to give you top prospects for one year of Lee
even if paid the 13 million.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2009 8:20 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly bheidge
Thats what i was trying to get across
Haven't you heard? Barry Bonds was reportedly offered a 3 year, 50 million dollar contract by Jim Hendry
at least, I read it on a twitter account, or something. but it’s gonna happen!
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
This will never happen...
…Ricketts is giving this core one more year to see what they can do, and than you can talk about significant changes – from the top down.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
First of all lee is from S.D i dont think he would mind going home..
I would trade for adrian and pay 1/2 the salery owed to lee to get adrian.I’m sure lee knows were not going anywere for a long time…And i would dump z for a good player even if we have to eat 1/2 of the 19 mil.we need to dump pay these new onwers aint gonna spend money.
No, Derrek Lee is not from San Diego.
He was born in, raised in, and still lives in Sacramento.
Please check your facts before you post.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
yabuttt
lee has a friend of a cousin who lives in San Diego and players care more about living close to a friend of a brother of your 3rd cousin twice removed than having any chance at a championship…especially considering the Cubs had such a HORRIFIC (dear god I would rather be covered in a mixture of rubber soles and gasoline, lit on fire and launched from a mideval catapult than have to even think about last year) WINNING season and this year has absolutely no hope because half of our team sucks even though we were able to contend for a playoff spot with half of our team not playing to their averages due to injury, readjustment, or just plain bad seasons.
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
The catapult thing sound interesting - maybe the Cubs could get someone to do that as part of opening day festivities
Before he was traded, that could have been a way to get value from Bradley………
geez dude..
relax, the guy started out in San Diego..it’s an honest mistake people make often, no need to go apeshit about it.
We Got This!
by cubbiebear316 on Dec 16, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Simple frustration
at the attitude of people on this site – we miss the playoffs one year and suddenly the team we have is crap and Jim Hendry (who everyone seems to forget put together a team that made it to the playoffs 2 years straight) has the mental capacity of Brick Tamland – I understand that Jim has made his fair share of mistakes and that Lee is 34-35ish which means he is going to start to decline but good God its not like everyone on the team is 35+ and we have no prospects coming up through the farm system.
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
by hansman1982 on Dec 16, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I am now done ranting
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
yeah..
..i wasn’t talking about you dude.
We Got This!
by cubbiebear316 on Dec 16, 2009 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
oh
me and my damn ego that makes me thing people talk about me…ya Al relax…we showed him cubbiebear
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Personally.
I want Derrek Lee to retire a Cub.
2010 is OUR year.
by Unique on Dec 15, 2009 7:59 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
Yeah
Screw ever winning a National League pennant. Lets let nostalgia continue to run amuk for the friggin ballpark and certain players in deference to running a smart, strategic baseball franchise that might actually win a World Series some day.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
BLou's point is that he cares more about building a winning franchise than celebrating a potentially championshipless Cubs career for Lee
It’s not as crazy as it sounds, even if he has a crass way of saying it.
Which would you prefer?
DLee retires a Cub, or a better team that contends for a title? I am not saying the two are mutually exclusive, but if the Cubs can make the team better by dealing DLee, you do it, and you don’t lose any sleep over it either.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 17, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
You're creating a fictional dilemma here
How would the team be improved by trading Derek Lee, given that you’d likely get marginal prospects in return?
You are the only one writing fiction here
Did I say or even suggest DLee be traded for marginal prospects? I posted: “if the Cubs can make the team better by dealing DLee, you do it”. Nowhere do I suggest dumping him. If you cannot make the team better by trading him, you don’t make the trade. Pay more attention next time please.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 18, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
This is essentially the same argument I make about Bradley.
Does releasing Bradley and eating the $21mill improve the team?
Nope.
Yes, if Lee could be traded for players that improved the team, I’d be in favor of it.
Now, what players are you proposing we trade Lee for?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 17, 2009 8:40 PM CST up reply actions
two points
1. DLee does not create problems in the clubhouse, the same cannot be said for MB, so the two arguments are not the same.
2. As for what players I am proposing the Cubs trade DLee for I am not proposing any names. I am just speaking in general, if a good deal that makes the team better in 2010 can be done, you do it, regardless of what a great guy DLee is.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 18, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
Tell the 3 million who
pour through the turnstiles, Hey Lee, Ramy and Z are gone, Cubs go 71-91. Sure that will go over well with the financials tied into the Cubs.
Try again. Lee and Ramy are Cubs.
But what that does do
is make blou right about the cubs losing 90 games
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 15, 2009 8:22 PM CST up reply actions
Good point
Clearly there’s madness in his madness…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I'd rather have that
instead of continuing to repeat the same mistakes year after year….signing overrated veterans to inflated contracts, and trying to fill huge personnel holes with some other team’s castaways. Build from within and they’ll come or eventually come back. Do you really believe another year or two of mediocrity will keep most yahoo Cub fans away from Wrigley? It’s not a baseball field, it’s an amusement park.
We're not scaremongering (nightmare of a season continues), this is really happening (Bears are more than done) - Radiohead
Perpetual ignorance
on the Cubs part to “continue” to believe this team has what it takes to win a title. This fact should’ve been obvious to JH after the D-back playoff series in ‘07. Yes, they won 97 games, but couldn’t hit right-handed pitching when it mattered most.
We're not scaremongering (nightmare of a season continues), this is really happening (Bears are more than done) - Radiohead
fixed it for you
but couldn’t hit right-handed pitching when it mattered most.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
Thinking out loud fail
I was thinking more the Dodgers series in ’08, while I typed the wrong year.
We're not scaremongering (nightmare of a season continues), this is really happening (Bears are more than done) - Radiohead
in that case
but couldn’t hit right-handed pitching play well when it mattered most.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
I bet he doesn't know
what a strawman is either.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
I look forward to the Cubs being legit challengers for the title
and that trumps any particular player
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 17, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
rec'd
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
I appreciate the sentiment but that doesn't seem to be how baseball works these days
Any team with a budget has to keep looking for how to get better value for their $. That means that players in their 30s will have to accept lower contracts and/or face getting moved. Look at the Red Sox as an example – playing salary hardball with Varitek and letting Bay go. Only the Yankees can afford lifetime contracts and looking at their decisions this offseason, they may not be doing that, either.
turning lee into gonzalez like that is pipe dream...but i agree about trading lee
his value is at a peak right now and I believe the time is right to trade him. And with all that being said, if the cubs are out of the race in july, there is going to be a lot of dumping of cubs players. Lee, Lilly, and zambrano are all guys that could potentially be traded at the deadline if the cubs are out of it
I really really really hate to say this...
but you’re right. I love D. Lee. The Cubs can get something really good back if they trade him. I’d do it if ONLY IF HE OPTS. OUT.
Call up Theo Epstein and offer up his pick of Derrek Lee or Aramis Ramirez before he completes a deal for Adrian Gonzalez
That’s what I would do. The Red Sox have some very intriguing young prospects who would look awfully good being part of a future hoped for core that includes Starlin Castro, Andrew Cashner and maybe a handful of others like Brett Jackson, Josh Vitters.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
If you can say with a straight face that this current Cub team is close to winning anything of consequence then I have a bridege in Brooklyn to sell you
Put down the Kool-aid and LOOK at the situation. I’ve been a diehard since the mid-70s. With the exception of the Dallas Green years this is the same damned disease the paralyzes this franchise and its fan base year in and year out. The eternal optimists and kool-aid drinkers win out over good strategic and objective baseball analysis.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2009 8:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
so if the disease continues to ravage the Cubs...
then there is no point in trying to develop our prospects, ie. Cashner, VItters, and Jacson, because management with treat them the same as they have for the past 40 years; despite three ownership changes in that time period..
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
I think this Cub team can win the central.
All the Cubs need to do is stay healthy. Surely if Rami, Soto, and Sori were healthy last season the Cubs would have at least stood a chance with the Cards. IF THE CUBS STAY HEALTHY THEY WILL WIN!!!
What good will that do?
you will be first in line to bash those prospects if they don’t pan out.
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
hey, thats what i said!
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 15, 2009 8:10 PM CST up reply actions
actually, i dont know if he will
afterall, we are talking about the illustrious red sox farm system
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 15, 2009 8:11 PM CST up reply actions
Huh.
Just a few days ago you were saying Castro, Vitters, Cashner, etc. would be busts. Now they’re the core?
Which is it?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Al
Please you know better than to respond to BLou with logic , facts or his own previous statements.
Just say “Pound Sand” instead.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2009 8:38 PM CST up reply actions
Flip a coin and find out
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 15, 2009 8:39 PM CST up reply actions
Won't heal...
… if you keep picking at it.
by TheHawkRules on Dec 15, 2009 10:09 PM CST up reply actions
but it sure keeps his butt chin healthy
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 15, 2009 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
Al... Al... Al...
After all this time you should know BLou changes his mind and opinion more ofter then you change socks…
I’m starting to think he has a chart of opinions and a random number generator and
rolls a new number on the chart each morning…
- Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
- Germans?
- Forget it, he's rolling.
actually he uses a "See-N-Say"
We had some fun with that back in 2008. I think SWL actually mocked up what it looked like. Maybe he’ll post it here again for old time’s sake?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I'm not sure Boston
would really go after Lee hard unless the value is dirt cheap. I think they are looking younger overall, but they may take a glove like Adrian Beltre to keep Youk at first (and Beltre could take off in Fenway).
Now this I might be open to.
I agree that the Cubs have some holes this year. I don’t see them getting much better than last year, even with some better performances by some players. (I hope I’m wrong.) With Castro, Vitters, et all, I think that their window is probably 2-3 years from now (2011-2012 or beyond.) Since I don’t think that Lee is going to contribute much by that time, I’m open to dealing him. The Cubs additionally will have freed up at least some of the money from the back loaded contracts by then as well, hopefully allowing them to add some other pieces a bit more intelligently.
That said, I would love to see DLee retire a cub, but I am more interested in winning a pennant in my lifetime. If it takes shipping Lee to do it, then package him already. Ramirez, though, could still be a good, solid contributor in 2011-2012. I think that you work on keeping him around.
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
But why, oh why wouldn't the Red Sox just trade for Gonzalez themselves?
Same propects plus maybe one or two more, and you get a younger player with more power. No way the Red Sox need the Cubs to make this deal.
epstein is extremely picky when it comes to trading prospects
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 19, 2009 6:21 PM CST up reply actions
So he is supposed to trade enough propects to the Cubs for Lee that they can turn around, add one or two more and get Gonzalez?
Sorry, but I still don’t get it. Why use a middle man to get a 34 year old 1B when you can pay a little more and get one who is 27?
i wasnt saying that
i was saying that if the red sox were to need the cubs (or any team for that matter) it would be so epstein can keep prospects
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 19, 2009 11:34 PM CST up reply actions
But once the core of the deal is Gonzalez to Boston, what role is there for the Cubs and Lee?
The Red Sox would have a 1B, and there is no way the Padres want Lee’s salary. Even if the scenario is to pick up someone like Ellsbury, which of the other parties is willing to walk away with Lee? And if the Cubs don’t get Gonzalez, who plays 1B in Chicago?
I’m not trying to dis Lee here – I like him as a player. I just don’t see how he could get the Cubs into the dance.
im just saying in general about a trade like this
not talking about a lee for gonzalez swap
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 20, 2009 1:04 AM CST up reply actions
Ummmm
Let me get this straight. We trade DLee to Team A for prospects and then trade those prospects to Team B for Gonzales?
Why wouldn’t Team B just trade their prospects directly to San Diego for Gonzales?
what?
This Chicago Cubs team is currently Aaron free. Keep it that way, please.
by jesus christos on Dec 15, 2009 8:17 PM CST up reply actions
Love your idea
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
I will say it again
From the Cubs prospects and or the prospects the Cubs recieve in trading D . Lee .
Genius in waiting
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
Laughed most heartily at this one.
What does that say about me? Hmmm….
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
That's a sad fail
Poor, poor beaver.
We're not scaremongering (nightmare of a season continues), this is really happening (Bears are more than done) - Radiohead
That wood really crushed that beaver
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
TWSS
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
Beaver is half off
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Adrian Gonzalez is headed to the Red Sox
Only destination that makes sense.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2009 8:23 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't say the only
Boston’s the most likely destination, but some other ones make some sense.
The Mariners system is a bit thin right now, but if they decided to get bold … it’s not implausible if they offered something like a “Take any 6 guys type deal”. Mets have enough chips to make a bold move if Omar got crazy (Jenrry Mejia). Oakland wouldn’t really stun me … the finances might be tough to figure out, but as he’s cost-controlled, they do have the talent to try and surprise people with a move if they wanted. I’m sure if AG was on the market, Kenny might call and ask (but his system really lacks the assets for me to think could happen right now).
There’s a couple other teams that wouldn’t surprise me if they took somehow pulled AG out of their hat.
No - The Cubs would lose in this deal
Lee is 34 and due $13MM in 2010 and is then a free agent. What team will trade prospects for a 34 year old first baseman? How much of the $13MM would the Cubs need to eat to make a deal happen.
Lee’s best trade value would be at the trade deadline as a rental player.
It's gonna be a LOOOOOOOOOOONG off-season.
There’s what, 3 months left? We don’t make a move in 6 weeks and all hell breaks loose.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
No trade? OH, NOOOOOOOO!
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 15, 2009 11:57 PM CST up reply actions
Well, this made me
spew my water all over my desk. Nice work, Stone.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2009 1:07 AM CST up reply actions
hmmm. . .
water or kool-aid?
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
How dare you accuse NBF of drinking kool-aid! HOW DARE YOU!
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 16, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
I wasn't accusing him of drinking kool aid
Just saying that Big Brother needs to know whose side each of us are on.
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
I wish I had been drinking
something stronger than H2O, but alas …
And no, my Kool-Aid isn’t blue …
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
I was just joking, no harm.
The whole “kool-aid drinker” thing here cracks me right the hell up. Does that make Al our Jim Jones?
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 16, 2009 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
Worse yet, does that mean
we’re all living in a jungle in Guyana?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
I was being sarcastic in my original post, but i didn’t want it to be construed as mean-spirited.
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
And we're 15 short days away from St. DeRosa's Feast Day, too.
good grief.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Bill Potter on Dec 16, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
Silly offseason,
Blou rants and raves, many join,
Winter freezes brains.
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
by eths on Dec 16, 2009 6:08 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
Picture fail....
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
Point is
Aging 1st baseman with big contracts do not get much in return. Look around baseball, the teams that would be willing to pay Lee already have 1st baseman or in the case of the Mets do not have anything worth trading.
Even if the Cubs wanted, the market for Lee is small. Don’t you think they also realize he is getting old?
What is the current market for Lee?
Lee is getting older, but on a one year deal after he OPSed 1.000+ for 5 months – there’d definitely be a market for that. I bet the Giants would love to get Lee – Sabean doesn’t mind older players. If we’d eat 10 M of Lee’s salary, I bet the Rangers would take Lee over Lowell in a heartbeat. I bet the M’s would love Lee, too. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Dodgers would swap Loney for Lee and we should be able to get something more than Loney in that deal.
So, if the Lowell deal falls through, you could try and get the 4 West teams bidding against themselves for Lee – and if you’re trading Lee, you’re selling off on ’10 anyway, so you go ahead and eat salary aplenty.
That said, Derrek Lee is not likely to waive his NTC. See my sigline – the players think they’re in it to win next year and for good reason. They won a ton of games with half the offense crippled all season long. Hendry needs to be ready to pivot to selling mid-season, when he will be able to trade Lee and Lilly, but I don’t think there’s any harm in giving them half a season to try and compete anyway. Lee and Lilly will both be Type A free agents that you don’t mind offering arb to, so their value at the trade deadline should be solid, so long as they’re healthy.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
And the Red Sox will get a failed prospect in Max Ramirez
The Cubs are not a small market team. They are not going to trade Lee plus cash for some marginal prospect(s).
In this day, teams hold their top prospects except in trades for pitching and young players (like Teixeira). Position players over 30 are not returning top prospects. Take a look at the return for Victor Martinez. He was a catcher who has more marketability than a 1st baseman and yet Boston only gave up Hagadone who was considered much of a prospect.
by rlpete on Dec 16, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Good point.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Agreed 100%
Unless they’re a premiere starting pitcher, aging players with high-dollar deals never fetch much in trade.
When was the last time a highly paid, veteran position player over 30 was traded? Manny Ramirez probably? He was essentially traded for 1 failed prospect and 1 low-level pitching prospect.
I should say
a highly paid, veteran position player who was still producing at a level close to his salary.
If anyone thinks the Cubs could trade Lee to say SF
and get either Posey or Bumgardner is not following baseball. Lee would probably get one top #4 to #6 prospect and another player or two.
This diary is entitled “Trade Lee for Top Prospects”. You won’t get one much less multiple. You could possibly get a failed prospect (like a Carlos Quentin) who the Cubs hope will bounce back.
roy halladay!
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 16, 2009 4:38 PM CST up reply actions
Reading is *fun*damental!
Unless they’re a premiere starting pitcher, aging players with high-dollar deals never fetch much in trade.
When was the last time a highly paid, veteran position player over 30 was traded?
it sure is
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 17, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions
Griffey to the Sox
how old was Manny and Nomar when they were traded?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Nomar was 31.
Had just turned 31 a week before the deal.
Manny Ramirez was 36, but that’s a special case because he forced the deal.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
i was just trying to see if I was (in my drunken stooper)
able to think of any that were not pitchers.
would Pudge being traded last season count, or was he too over the hill at that time?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
was that even needed?
seems you have an obsession with me, even since i proved you wrong about the bat bench debate.
and no i rarely drink anymore (medical issues last April, some may remember), and it doesnt take much to get me drunk based on that. it also is why i quit smoking. Anything else in my personal life you want to know?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
For TJ11,
here’s a piece of advice that apparently no one ever shared with you:
Better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 21, 2009 8:55 AM CST up reply actions
So what's your excuse?
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Dropped on his head, i'd guess.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 23, 2009 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
I should add
Honestly, I think San Diego holds onto him for at least another half-season. Part of that is to appease the fan base. The other part is to see how their young system matures. There’s some intriguing assets in there. If they develop fast enough, it could make sense for them to hold onto Adrian to allow themselves to be competitive. They could instead deal a young 1st baseman like Kyle Blanks. Holding onto Adrian for another half-season also makes sense in that, it would give them a clearer picture of what positions are badly needed in the system, besides pitching. Finally, there’s a limited market of teams that have the need and can fork over top prospects that have performed in the minors. I think the market would be bigger than the Red Sox, but it’s limited. Waiting a half season doesn’t hurt them and could allow them to see how other teams young talents are maturing.
Now, if someone comes in with a knock your socks off deal, then maybe they change their mind. But I’m not sure that happens now.
Trading DLee is fine
if they get value in return, value that will make the team better in 2010 not down the line. The Cusb can challenge this year if they make the right moves.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 16, 2009 11:44 AM CST reply actions
Continuing fun with the Mets via New York Daily News
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/galleries/december_2009_back_pages/december_2009_back_pages.html
I am sure if BLou where into graphics he would photoshop Hendry into this. Me I will just enjoy Omar
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 16, 2009 11:57 AM CST reply actions
Trade Derrek Lee? Not going to happen...
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
Agreed.
All too many times some overlook the value he has on this team. A lot of people here said at the beginning of 2009 that he was done and needed to go, and he went on to have yet another breakout season. We can’t let him go on speculation alone, and we have far bigger fish to fry than at 1B. As long as he produces along his career numbers he is an asset to the team. Personally I say let him have those few productive years he’s got left (per the poster) here in Chicago.
I would like to ask one somewhat related question...
If Boston is truly going to try and acquire Gonzalez — reportedly by dangling Bucholz and Ellsbury — does it make sense for the Cubs to elbow in on those talks, and try to reroute Jacoby to Chicago?
I've no idea what you're talking about...
I hadn’t mentioned Derrek at all. I asked if the idea of the Cubs elbowing in on that deal to turn into into a three-team conversation has merit.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 16, 2009 7:02 PM CST up reply actions
Damen Jackson
I like your thinking . IMO a three – team conversation does have merit . Hendry needs to be creative .
My point is what would the Cubs offer to get in this deal?
Boston wants Gonzales not DLee. San Diego wants cheap young players. So I guess you are proposing that the Cubs in essence trade with San Diego and get Ellsbury for something. Considering Ellsbury is cheap, young and a starter, I would expect that San Diego might want someone who can play now.
So maybe Wells?
thats an interesting idea
dont know if it would happen, though
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 16, 2009 7:03 PM CST up reply actions
That's a great idea...
Not sure how realistic it is though.
What would the Cubs have to give up to make it happen in your opinion?
Hard to say....
I’m just spitballing here, but I’m going to presume that Castro is all but untouchable, given the Granderson fiasco. And I personally wouldn’t move Vitters until I knew what Ramirez was going to do next offseason. The Cubs do have a bit of a pitching surplus, so I think this might be a good time to sell high on Wells, and package him in with Colvin. Maybe turn around, and grab a Garland out of free agency to fill that role. It’s probably a bit cheaper than what Hendry would have paid for a free agent center fielder. But I’m just thinking out loud.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 16, 2009 8:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Personally, I think Ellsbury's overrated
but he would be a great fit for this team, nonetheless. I like this idea a lot, but I worry we’d need to overpay to get in on this.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Why do you think he's overrated?
I’ve seen a few mentions of him being overrated – and unless you’re repeating yourself, it would seem others here think that as well. I don’t quite get why though.
Offensively, the only fault I can see is he doesn’t walk as much as you might want from a leadoff guy. But seeing as how he’s still just 25, I would think plate discipline could be improved with time.
I don’t know enough about defensive stats to comment intelligently, but at worst, he seems to be around league average. Can someone provide a better analysis?
He appears to be a .300 hitter, hits well enough against LHP, stole 70 bases this past season and 50 the year before. Again, he’s just 25 so I would imagine he’d only get better, yes?
Where does the overrating fit in?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I don’t know enough about defensive stats to comment intelligently, but at worst, he seems to be around league average. Can someone provide a better analysis?
he had a god awful UZR this year but from what i read is that he gets bad reads. not to mention his noodle arm
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 16, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
In general -
it’s because of several of the things you list here –
He appears to be a .300 hitter, hits well enough against LHP, stole 70 bases this past season and 50 the year before. Again, he’s just 25 so I would imagine he’d only get better, yes?
I like that he’s hitting LHP – that’s good if he’s going to be an everyday lead-off hitter. But the rest I think pumps up his value more than is warranted. 70 SBs with only a dozen CS is great and rare, but the value of this is not as great as some would expect. But that’s an old debate – how valuable is the SB.
Yes, he hit .300 – in Boston. His career line away is .286/.333/.381. I generally don’t like getting worked up about home-away splits, but Boston’s a place a certain kind of hitter can really take advantage of. Is Ellsbury really that much better than the presumably cheaper to acquire Brett Gardner? And some here are saying Gardner’s not worth the upgrade on Sam Fuld.
JC above is accurate – Ellsbury’s UZR in ’09 was -18 which is Fukudome equivelancy.
Finally, I just have the sense that Ellsbury is what Ellsbury will be for the next 4 years, that he’s not getting any better. That’s totally subjective, but if Boston’s trading him…
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
well, I can appreciate the "how valuable is the SB" argument, but...
…I think the question here would be “how valuable is 70 SBs”. Doesn’t that change the circumstances a bit?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I clicked on this with my guns loaded
Good to know you guys can handle the tomfoolery when I’m away. I’m proud of you all!
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
We can handle it without you
but it is not as much fun. Obviously you are letting the kid preoccupy your time over more important things like insane trade ideas.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 17, 2009 7:24 AM CST up reply actions
Point of contention!
Given the relationship between Edgar and AGonz, where does he fit into this hypothetical scenario? Does he come as part of the package? ’cause we could sure use another off the bench kind of guy.
"With Chance on first, and Evers on third,
Great things from the Cubs will soon be heard."
only way Lee is traded
IMHO would be a “gift” trade alal Maddux to LAD. Moving him so he can get a playoff run and we take on some shit in return just to show him due respect. That would mean we are out of it early and going nowhere fast, meaning BLou is right about all his rants, and that my friends would be a scary world to live in
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
well
trade lee for prospects
i think that would be a good move for the cubs.
but apparently that’s not what you’re proposing. and i doubt the cubs have the pieces to get gonzo.
cubs would be smart to try and rebuild, though. and lee and aram would do well to restock a pretty bare farm system
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
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