Cards 8yr Offer to Holliday
Wow, at 16 mil per year, imagine what Pujols will demand when it's his turn.
about 2 years ago
tony412
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I think so
but that’s what happens when you deal w/a Boras guy. Just look for the type of deal he’s looking to get Ankiel.
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Can St. Louis afford both men?
Regardless, if Holiday signs, Cubs are no longer the team to beat for the next few years….
Yeah this isn't good news for the Cubs in the short term.
But in the long term that’s a bad contract to have in 2017.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
If the Cards sign Holliday but are later unable to sign Pujols
this will be a wonderful deal for us in a term that is not that long after all. I wonder if Holliday signs if Hendry will be able to shift gears and view 2010 as a season to start bridging to the next wave of talent. I’ve been playing with the projection #s and a lot of things would have to go right for the Cubs or an injury to Pujols for us to be likely to keep pace with a Holliday-laden Cardinals in 2010. The thing, though, is that the Cards’ pitching lacks depth and has multiple injury question marks, so you can still make the case that we play the first half of the season before offering up Lee and Lilly and others.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
The Cardinals aren't stupid.
They’re not going to do ANYTHING that will prevent them from signing Pujols. Period.
These are not your father's Cardinals
Walt Jocketty is gone; this new guy is unproven in my mind and he may be getting bad signs from Pujols and ready to make a desperation move. I don’t know. This is just speculation and wondering.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Speculation...
with no basis. Come on, think about this logically… why would the Cards even consider signing Holliday if by doing so it meant they couldn’t afford Pujols? It’s just entirely unrealistic.
And it isn't like Pujols is on another team
They can talk with him all the time. I’m sure they have some idea what it will take.
Well it may seem w/o basis to you
but we’re expecting Albert to get paid 20 M per – if he takes a discount. With a 90-100 M payroll and very little in the farm, how do you field a team with two players in the weakest defensive positions making a third of your payroll?
The Cards may not know what it takes to sign Albert. He’s been saying he sees no urgency to signing. And when the time comes the Cards may face competition to sign Pujols from the Mets, Angels, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, and some team that no one expects like the Rangers with A-Rod.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Okay, so assuming...
that’s true, and they realize that he might walk, why on earth would they choose Holliday over Pujols? Cause that’s what they’d be doing by signing him, assuming they can’t have both.
It just doesn’t make any sense.
I see your point.
I guess I’m thinking more that they may be hoping for a bigger discount than Albert will really give.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Thanks I needed to see that again.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 16, 2009 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
it moves, too!
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 16, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I had been counting on Boras and Holliday doing to the Cards
what Beltran did to the ‘Stros a few years back. I did not think the Cards could offer a deal like this and still keep Pujols later. But it may be that Pujols has drawn a line and said that if Holliday walks, so will he. In that case, you have to go all out to keep Holliday and hope Pujols will cut a friendly deal. In other words, Holliday isn’t worth this deal, but if this is the price it takes to keep Pujols, well, then it may end up being worth it.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I follow your logic
and if true, I can understand it a bit better, but I just don’t see how anyone other than the Yankees/RedSox can go w/this approach. They’re basically going to break the bank on a couple guys and go cheap everywhere else. Come to think of it, isnt that what they’ve been doing all along? Good coaching and managing maybe masks for some of that.
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Not that caliber of player
A tragic mistake by the Cardinals, in my opinion. I had really hoped that the days of these type deals were over.
Damen
by Damen Jackson on Dec 16, 2009 10:15 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Tragic only if it causes our management to follow suit
I’m okay with our rivals handcuffing themselves with long contracts like this, especially while we’re currently suffering from the same types of contracts ourselves.
Rec'd
There have been a lot of players so far this off season getting more than I expected. Guys like Wagner and Penny with major injury histories, Camerons deal with the BoSox, and even Harden’s deal with the Rangers.
Unfortunately you pay for past performance in this league, not real current value, or expected performance.
Bay and Holliday are $10 – 12m guys, not $15 -18m.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Dec 16, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
The cards are offering a contract
to a guy who had the best 60 days of his career with them. He’s good, but not that good. This is a bad move.
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
A Soriano Type Deal?
When healthy, Soriano has hit well for the Cubs, and I’ll let others debate how well he’s played defense. Overall, though, the Soriano contract has not turned out well for the Cubs to this point because of injuries. Of course, if he’s healthy in 2010 and plays all season like he did in April 2009, then that contract is going to look a lot better.
I know Pujols is willing to play for less money in St. Louis because he likes it there so much. For how much less will he be willing to play in St. Louis? If the Cards sign Holliday, then they are almost certainly not going to be able to pay Pujols nearly what the Yankees and Red Sox can fork over? How much of a hometown discount is Pujols willing to give to St. Louis?
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
I'm expecting Pujols
to get 10yr/200-250 mil offers from AL teams knowing he can probably be a good DH for a good chunk of that time, specially in the later years.
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Pujols should insist
that he be paid more than A-Rod’s last contract.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Which lends credence to the theory that Albert Pujols will soon be granted a new contract
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
I can't see how the Cardinals can afford...
… to give Holliday a deal like this AND give Pujols a deal that would have to be LARGER than this, since he is a better player.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The Cardinals will sign Albert Pujols eventually
They understand that he is the best ballplayer on the planet and the face of the Cardinals. They also understand that Pujols loves St. Louis. And finally they understand that they need to remain a good competitive team so that all temptation for Albert to leave is extinguished.
Eventually, I expect Albert to sign a deal in the $200 million range. He wants to retire a Cardinal and is very intricately woven into the fabric of that city. He isn’t going anywhere short of the Cardinals declaring bankruptcy or the DeWitt family having a divorce scenario ala the Dodgers.
P.S. That’s way too much money for Matt Holliday.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Oh, I absolutely think...
that if Holliday is signed, Pujols will be signed to an extension shortly thereafter. Before tickets go on sale for 2010, conveniently.
Unless they are planning on expanding payroll
Locking up $36m+ a year into two players is going to make things very difficult for them, especially with the current state of their farm system. As a Cubs fan, this is good news.
Regardless of the Cards current payroll
They can bank on a good/great revenue stream for the next few years. A new stadium and a competitive team along with a loyal fanbase puts them in a nice position to spend now on predicted returns in the future.
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
kinda reminds me of what a certain Chicago club did
a few years ago when they signed a certain left fielder
Dare I give the Cubs my heart again?
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 16, 2009 2:09 PM CST reply actions
Pujols will...
… either get a biggger contract than ARod…
Or, he’ll stay with the Cards and give them a lil discount. He’s gonna make 20 mill a year, EASY….
I think if the Cards do get both Holliday and Pujols with MONSTER contracts… I don’t think they’ll be able to do much more. So…
Although he deserves it...
…I’m not sure I’d want to sign him for that. At the end of his contract he’ll be 40 and making $20 million a year. Yikes!!!!
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I agree...
…won’t it be the same with ARod?
A few teams will jump at it if it looks like he’ll break some major records.
ARod/Bond/Aaron???
by TheHawkRules on Dec 16, 2009 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
ARod isn't really the same.
He likely to break the records while under his current contract. He’ll be 42 when his contract is up in 2017. His contract is ridiculous. Plus he gets $6M bonuses for reaching certainly milestones…
From Cots:
10 years/$275M (2008-17)
re-signed by Yankees as a free agent 12/13/07
$10M signing bonus ($2M paid upon approval, $1M paid each Jan. 15, 2009-2013, $3M paid Jan. 15, 2014)
08:$27M, 09:$32M, 10:$32M, 11:$31M, 12:$29M, 13:$28M, 14:$25M, 15:$21M, 16:$20M, 17:$20M
$30M marketing agreement based on home run milestones ($6M each for reaching 660, 714, 755 and tying and breaking major league HR record)
no-trade protection
perks: may purchase 4 best available season tickets for 2008, 4 Legends Suite or comparable season tickets for 2009-17
Texas obligated to fund $9M as part of deferred compensation provision in previous contract (to be paid with interest in $3M increments in 2008, 2009 & 2010)
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/new-york-yankees_111398168678860040.html
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
If it looks like Pujols...
…can break some of those major records, don’t you think he may get a huge contract similiar?
ARod may be starting to fall apart. He hasn’t played more than 140 games for the last two seasons… of course, he has the DH to help him out when he needs it.
If Pujols wants to break some major records… he’s as a good position to help limit the wear and tear on his body…Plus, if he gets close… he may generate more media because he hasn’t been caught with steriods… yet…
by TheHawkRules on Dec 16, 2009 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
this is worse than what we signed Soriano to IMHO
when taking into consideration the talent of both players. Both are good, but (when not injured) Soriano is the better of the two
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
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