BREAKING: Milton Bradley Reported Headed To Seattle For Carlos Silva
by Al Yellon on Dec 18, 2009 12:08 PM CST
in Chicago Cubs News
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PrintSources confirm Milton Bradley headed to Mariners for Carlos Silva -- merry christmas #cubs fans
Well. Clearly, Carlos Silva has been one of the worst pitchers in baseball the last two years. This is not a deal you'd make in a vacuum, and unless Silva has a previously undisclosed injury or some sort of massive mechanical problem, the Cubs won't get any decent production out of him.
However, I ask you to remember what happened seven years ago, when Todd Hundley "had" to be traded under similar (though certainly not identical) circumstances, and Jim Hendry turned him into Eric Karros and Mark Grudzielanek.
Karros had just come off two really poor years and a lot of Cubs fans wondered, "What do we want with him? We have Hee Seop Choi ready to take over 1B." Grudzielanek was similarly awful in 2002, posting a Neifi-like .665 OPS.
Yet by the end of the 2003 season, both of these players had played significant roles in the NL Central championship season, and Karros is still remembered fondly by Cubs fans for the full-page ad he took out in the Tribune thanking all of us for his memorable season.
Let's wait and see. For me, I'm happy that Jim Hendry managed to fix his mistake from a year ago, albeit at a high (for now) dollar cost. Maybe Carlos Silva will reclaim what he had in Minnesota and be worth the contract.
Next stop: signing a CF.
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Why should there be a park on the land west of Wrigley Field?
Isn’t Lincoln Park big enough?
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 18, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
And not only that...
… the Cubs own the land and they’re going to build the triangle building on it. A park will never happen.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Sorry Al
the land was traded to Seattle in the Bradley trade ;)
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 18, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
LOL
What are the Mariners going to build there?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Rain Forest Cafe
And it rains on you during your meal, of course.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 18, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
He wasn't good in Minnesota though...
Flip him, flip him, flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him,flip him. Please Jimbo.
to who?
who on earth WANTS Carlos Silva?
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
Al if he gets Milton dumped.
Horrific move.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 18, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
agree, disgraceful work by Jim Hendry
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
For...
Peavy/Roberts/Lind?!?!
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 18, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
Hendry picked up a player more difficult to trade than Bradley
Flipping will be really really improbable. I’d just plan on the Cubs being stuck with him for two years.
He was bad in 2006
But outside in 2004, 2005, and 2007 he was a 4.10 ERA or so guy. That’s pretty decent.
I’m not saying he’ll do that here, but he was solid for Minnesota
by IllinoisCubs on Dec 18, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
he had a decent ERA
with terrible peripheral stats. So he still sucked
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
Great, he was a bad pitcher on a spreadsheet.
At worst, if he is healthy he can be an inning-eater. The Cubs can use one of those.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The Cubs have innings eaters
They make $400,000 a year and pitch for Ryne Sandberg
Are you familiar with the old robot saying, "Does not compute"?
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 18, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 13 recs
It's hard to
eat innings when you give up alot of runs Al. And he was a bad pitcher on a spreadsheet, on the field whatever way you want to look at it.
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
Does that mean he will suck in 2010?
We do not know that yet. He was hurt much of 2009.
Look, I realize this isn’t an ideal trade. There wasn’t going to be one for Bradley, no matter who came here.
I refer you again to the reaction to the Hundley deal seven years ago — which was just about the same as this reaction. Virtually everyone thought Karros and Grudzielanek were useless and would suck.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
again
its not just about Silvia the player. Its Silva the contract.
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
I'm annoyed that you are so willing to believe that Silva could turn it around in 2010...
… when you so brazenly insisted Bradley couldn’t do the same.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't say he couldn't.
I just didn’t want him on the team no matter what he did.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You DID say he couldn't. Repeatedly.
Over and over, you said there was “no chance” 2010 could go smoothly with MB on the team.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I was referring to his being able to get along with players, fans & media.
Not his statistical performance.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I guess i'm just not scared of a little media circus.
Then again, i don’t read the papers, i never listen to the radio, and i don’t have cable TV. I tune that crap out and just… watch the game.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
And comment here.
You don’t have cable? Then you miss half the games.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 18, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Cable isn't the only way to catch the games.
I’ve got a little piece of silicone, metal and glass in my pocket that puts each and every one of the games in my ears for the price of a $10 app.
I also have worked out various… ahem… shenanigans on the internet so that i can stream / download any games i do happen to miss.
I can see the cubs without buying in to the media circus everyone here feared so deeply. Tune it out, and its not such a big deal. I prefer to pay attention to what i see on the field over what the fools in the paper or on Around The Horn have to say.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
Media circus isn't too bad
Not getting along with fellow players or the fans is.
Team Speed Kills. All SEC, all the time.
Players, maybe...
… and it was debated how poorly they actually got along with him. By most accounts, dude was a loner, but not fighting with guys or anything.
Fans? Who cares? Bicker back and forth as much as either side wants, as long as it doesn’t affect the on-field performance.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 9:01 PM CST up reply actions
ayup.
and so now, Hendry, who apparently didn’t have enough money, has traded for a MORE EXPENSIVE, WORSE player.
Way to go. The Cubs just became a worse team. All because of bruised egos. Awesome.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
When I had that conversation with you on here a little bit ago
I never imagined this. You are 100% spot on.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 18, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
what did you imagine? :D
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with you Drew, but
that’s only the case if the Cubs would even consider bringing back Bradley.
I thought they burned that bridge so well, they could never bring him back. For that, I blame Hendry not Bradley.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
by N Oakley on Dec 18, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
#3
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
what are you counting
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 18, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
we're getting money back
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 18, 2009 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
which is what makes this deal
only mostly sucky, instead of completely sucky.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
What else could have been done? If Bradley would have been cut the Cubs would have still eaten the contract. Silva could very well be horible but at least we can now move on.
Maybe Silva can be good. We should all hope for the best and give the guy a chance. It may be the best move of the year?
winning changes everything!
This is so far beyond not
ideal. This is ridiculous, amateurish, and frankly, a big fat cop out by the Cubs organization. It doesn’t take much to see why this organization doesn’t win. Real franchises admit their mistakes in these instances, eat the contract, and get something useful in return, so that they can get back to the business of winning. The Cubs hem and haw for months on bad trade offers, then settle for Carlos Silva. Why? Because the don’t want to/can’t come out of pocket with cash.
It’s shameful.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 18, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
Admit a mistake, yes.
But did you really think they could “get something useful in return”? Pat Burrell, I assume you’re referring to him when you say that. Burrell sucked last year. Could he be better? Sure. So could Silva.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
burrell before 2009 was atleast decent
silva wasnt
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 18, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
i wouldnt consider 229 hits in 202 innings "decent"
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 18, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
1.31 WHIP.
SIlva, at least, doesn’t issue many walks.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
As you likely know...
… strikeouts aren’t necessarily the most important thing for a pitcher.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Let me ask you a question Al.
What might your reaction have been on Silva if the Cubs had TODAY 1) signed him in free agency, 2) traded for him in a deal that didn’t involve Bradley, or 3) picked him up on the waiver wire?
by Damen Jackson on Dec 18, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
Of course, I'd have been upset.
This deal didn’t happen in a vacuum. Do I think Silva is good? No, of course not.
But now he’s a Cub. I have to at least hope he’ll improve.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
No, you don't
You can acknowledge the facts surrounding a player – especially one this bad – while at the same timing hoping for the best for this team in general.
This is simply an indefensible acquisition, and I’m a bit shocked that you’re trying to defend it, actually. Carlos Silva would be lucky to get a minor-league invite today on the open market. That makes him worth less than nothing, as the Cubs will commit a roster spot to him for at least the next season, so as to save face.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 18, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
The positive thing about this is the subtraction of Bradley and the feeing up of some $ for a CF.
Silva is just the means, not the end.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
Don't be.
This is simply an indefensible acquisition, and I’m a bit shocked that you’re trying to defend it, actually.
Some here, Al included, would have justified trading him for a big stinky turd making $100,000,000 over the next 5 years. “AT ALL COSTS!” they proclaimed. And it was so.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, that totally would have happened
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 18, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
I want to know
….who signed said stinky turd to a $100,000,000 contract in the first place?
LOL
"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Dec 18, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
That sounds like something the Mets would do.
:)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 18, 2009 7:15 PM CST up reply actions
Perhaps they aqquired said million dollar turd...
… from the cubs!
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 9:02 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, but he needs to improve to get to bad
I rather have seen the Cubs get a couple of million bucks and “a player to be named later” than a bad pitcher they still won’t cut because they owe him salary.
I want to build a time machine, go back to October 2008, and fire Hendry then….
What part of the fact that
Silva has never been good are you having trouble with? He was serviceable in 2007 – a contract year, by the way — but past that has always been a guy who relied on a superior defense to even be remotely effective, which even then he rarely was.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 18, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
I'd take serviceable.
Look, I know Silva has sucked for two years. Horrendous. Would I have acquired him under ANY other circumstance? Of course not.
I’m willing to wait & see.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I hear you, but Silva has a new start with the
Cubs and Bradley was done. Cash+Silva is better than cutting Bradley.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
by N Oakley on Dec 18, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Damn, and we still aren't remotely close to superior defense
No center fielder, a charmingly erratic left fielder, and OK not great at 2B and SS.
doesn't matter.
We had a problem in MB, we still have a problem in Silva. Only this is a less radioactive problem. That’s improvement
by Orval Overall on Dec 18, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
An effective inning eaters still doesnt have an ERA over 6
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on Dec 18, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Turn that green if you want, but...
… Jason Marquis posted an ERA over 6 in 2006. The Cubs signed him — yes, I know, to an over-market-value deal — and he was exactly that, an effective inning eater, for two years.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
No,
He was a bad pitcher, period. And as a someone who pitches to contact, he’ll only get worse with Theriot and likely Jeff Baker behind him, and a bevy of smaller parks in the NL Central to deal with.
This. Is. Awful.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 18, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
Dave Duncan
would turn Silva into a good pitcher…. In 2008 i hoped i was right in 2010 i hope i’m wrong.
No, at best he can be an innings-eater
At worst, he can be the worst pitcher in baseball like he’s been the last two years. Unless the Cubs are getting money back from Seattle, they’d have been better off releasing Bradley.
Al, I'm glad to see Milton gone too,
but C’mon, he won’t be an “innings eater” he’ll probably be David Pattoned.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 18, 2009 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
There will be no CF
we gained zero payroll flexibility from this move. None. In fact Silva makes a little bit more in the next two years than Bradley does. An outright release would have gained the club more value than this.
There will be no CF?
The Cubs aren’t going to have a center fielder next year?
Wow, talk about knee-jerk.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Not one that matters
Where is the $ coming from Al? We have less money after this trade than we did before, which is the exact reason we lost Mike Cameron.
Get ready for some kind of horrible choice between Posednik, Ankiel, Colvin or Sam Fuld.
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
We have to pick up Ankiel
Everyone knows the Cubs love St. Louis’ sloppy seconds.
Chicagoan in the Lou.
by Mike Martin on Dec 18, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
Why is Fuld a bad choice?
A career .282/.403/.388 stat line is nothing to sneeze at. his minor leage stats have been decent as well.
yeah
it kind of is. He is a decent backup OF. That’s it.
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
A Fuld/Johnson platoon wouldn't be the worst solution.
At least it might leave some money for midseason acquisitions.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
what DO you want?
Because clearly, Hendry has severely limited our options
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 18, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
I would take Marlon Byrd
over those two. I think Reed Johnson’s value is seriously inflated in the minds of some BCBers, and I don’t want Sam Fuld getting 400 at-bats (as the part of the platoon that faces right handers).
Depending on the health of his shoulder AND his contract demands, I’d also be interested in Ankiel.
Agreed
Since we didn’t get Cameron, that’s not a bad option
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Dec 18, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
sweet
I’m really liking the outlook on next year..loooks so wonderful
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
And your outlook...
With Bradley was positive and optimistic?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 18, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
if you were expecting this to be a great offseason
well, I don’t know what to tell you. Hendry absolutely screwed this team up.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 18, 2009 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
Hendry
I don’t know how you can make this statement. I don’t have the time nor patience to go through the building of the Cubs in 2007 and 2008 but I know for sure that even though they didn’t win the World Series that Hendry did as much as he could to put the Cubs in position to win. I don’t think Hendry could have done so without doing some of the things that “absolutely screwed this team up”.
Did Hendry have the supporting staff to continue building a Cubs farm system while still putting together the best team in MLB 2008? No.
Did he have to overpay for Sori to get us in the playoffs 07 08? maybe
Did he sign the player with the highest OPS+ in the AL thereby showing a willingness to help the team by getting a talented player and secure a position that has become the new 3B for the Cubs?
yes did that work no
Oh
I totally agree. On a veteran team with a window closing we should definitely be happy with a platoon of Reed Johnson and Sam Fuld. Because thats the kind of talent big market teams roll out when they want to contend.
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
seriously?
the expectations of this team have dropped then
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
Nice to see a major market team reduced
to “not the worst” solutions.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 18, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
thank you Jim Hendry
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 18, 2009 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
I disagree.
Platoon him with a decent RH hitter and put him near the top of the order so that his high OBP leads to baserunners for Lee and Ramirez and then he certainly has value. He will be cheap as well.
So, you
really think that that giving Sam Fuld 400 at-bats next season really makes the Cubs a better ballclub?
by Damen Jackson on Dec 18, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
It is possible but not likely
and remember folks I follow him closer than anyone
FYI did not play yesterday in Venezeula but on Wed he was 1-3 with a triple, two walks one run and one RBI and our old friend Ronnie Cedeno was 2-3 with a homer but also a caught stealing and an error.Some things never change.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 18, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
well since you follow him more closely, I'll ask you the same thing I asked CalCalender
Can’t be his numbers… they’re pretty good, albeit small sample size. What else tells you that Fuld is limited to backup OF ceiling.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
the fact that his numbers aren't eye-popping in the minors for one
and the fact that he doesn’t do anything exceptionally, for another.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 18, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
His minor league numbers are OK but the only time he was
breakout was AFL & Venezeula. Also given his laying out for anything fielding style he has been injured more than few times which is why he is getting his shot relatively late. He is pretty bad at hitting righties so at BEST he can platoon. I mean if it were up to me I would sell to hell with it, with his fielding and patience at the plate, let him hit .250 but I kind of doubt Lou, Hendry etc feel that way. Fuld is a terrific player to have on the bench and he deserves two or so starts per week but counting on him to be an everyday CF would be very bad planning. I am sure that is not the Cubs plan and I am sure Fuld does not expect it unless there is an injury. Right now the guy is just trying to make sure he makes the team. I would LOVE, LOVE to be wrong and find out he can play 150 games and hit .299 while crashing into brick walls and metal fences but I just wouldn’t make that the pre-season plan.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 18, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
you say "that's it" based on what?
Can’t be his numbers… they’re pretty good, albeit small sample size. What else tells you that Fuld is limited to backup OF ceiling.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
It's really hard for hitters without any power to sustain an OBP that high.
Typically contact hitters without much power gain a high OBP through great plate discipline — they don’t strike out much, walk a lot, and enough of their balls in play drop for hits that they do OK. The trouble is it’s really tough for them to sustain the walk rate necessary to have a really good OBP if they can’t scare pitchers into nibbling the corners.
Thus it’s quite rare to find hitters without much power that can sustain a high OBP — Rickey Henderson and Tim Raines are the prototypes; one is in the Hall and the other should be and will be once enough weak-minded old people die (and are replaced by weak-minded young people that slavishly admire Raines’ ability to avoid outs both at the plate and the basepaths). But I digress. A no-power guy putting up a high OBP is really pretty unusual. Sometimes a guy does it for a year and then can’t do it again (see Theriot, 2008), but that doesn’t mean it’s wise to expect a player without special skills to do it in any given year.
Statistically the red flags that stick out for Fuld specifically are that his BABIP and walk rate are both higher in his limited major-league time than they’ve typically been in the minors. I have a hard time seeing those things continue. So Fuld’s OBP will probably drop from it’s exceptional current level of around .400 to around .350 in a good year. Bill James projects .347 and a slight improvement in power… in total 1.3 runs below average in just 130 plate appearances; Bill James has been quite optimistic on lots of young hitters this offseason, and I think this is a somewhat optimistic projection though I don’t have a lot of evidence. Anyway, you’re looking at about -7 hitting runs given a full season of plate-appearances, assuming he can play at that level all year. If he’s a league-average CF that makes him something like a league-average player. But it’s unknown whether he could keep up that level of performance all year.
we don't know all the details yet ...
I’m hoping that the Mariners agreed to send the Cubs several million — enough to help get another bat.
If the numbers in the AP stories are correct, the Cubs saved about $5M
Silva was owed $25M, and the Mariners sent the Cubs $9M. Effectively, all the savings are in 2010, when Silve is owed $11.5M and Bradley $9M, so the Cubs get a net of $6.5M, maybe enough for a B-grade CF. In 2011, there is a net loss, as Silve will cost $13.5M (same salary plus a $2M buyout of 2012) vs. Bradley’s $12M. Just another Hendry move pusing his costs into the future – fire him now before he has $160M committed for 2012….
Who wants to go to Seattle...
…for the interleague game to heckle him?!
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Now that's a real Cub fan
And an example of what’s wrong with Cub fans and why players don’t want to play for the Cubs. Good job, have another Old Style.
Baseball is too much of a sport to be a business and too much of a business to be a sport.
William Wrigley Jr
by bubbamike the one and only on Dec 18, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
LOL
Great post.
I think the fans are doing more to ruin my Cubs experience than the actual Cubs are, which is saying something.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 18, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
funny...
i actually agree with you and my guess is you crowd me in the group who ruins it for you
since 2003 this fan base has acted like a rabid pack of hyenas
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 18, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You don't ruin it for me, DCF
You know your stuff, we just don’t agree often.
But I’m absolutely with you on your second sentence.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 18, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
rec'd
for the comment that we are all a bunch of rabid hyenas
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Sadly, it's true.
Had we gotten those five damned outs, that would never have happened.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
oh god..
you may need an overflow thread for that now, thanks for bringing it up
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
2003
Do you think that the Cubs fandom would have taken that one World Series victory and set back and been satisfied?
It could be argued that 2003 invigorated a fan base that had grown accustomed to the tag “lovable losers” and began to expect … demand … more?
Don’t get me wrong I get annoyed by some of the relentless pounding from fans that is handed out to management and criticism bestowed on players who were the best alternatives available at the time because they aren’t superstars (and weren’t when signed). All that said a WS win in 2003 wouldn’t have stymied alot of the ramped up expectations going forward.
This is spot on
I’ve been a Cubs fan my whole life, haven’t always been as in depth as I am now, but have always been a Cubs fan. That said, it pisses the love out of me when wherever I go have to defend Cubs’ fans to jackasses who love taking shots as us. Then one day I realized that they aren’t taking shots at Cubs’ fans. They are taking shots at the drunken mindless idiots who follow the Cubs because it gives them excuse to be drunken mindless idiots.
AAAAGRRrrghh. Sorry, rant over.
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
I think you're inability to see sarcasm might better illustrate "what's wrong with Cubs fans"
that, and you have not Bruce Froemming agreeing with you.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 18, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
Ugh
I hope nobody here is that petty
Are you familiar with the old robot saying, "Does not compute"?
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 18, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
You must not be familiar with new Cubdom.
Welcome.
Chicagoan in the Lou.
by Mike Martin on Dec 18, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
GOD YES
I’ll give him a racist comment to complain about….
KIDDING
Seriously though, I’m in
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Dec 18, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
I want to go to Seattle
to see a really well-run, exciting young team play :-(
http://www.fivetoolfans.com
by mykalmorgan on Dec 18, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
in seattle???
"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Dec 18, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
That team will be much improved next year
and they were better than us this year, so……..yes
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 18, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
"a really well-run,"
you mean the team that traded 5 prospects for Erik Bedard, signed Carols Silva, fell for Beltre’s 50 HR season, and traded away 2 pretty good prospects for 1 year of Cliff Lee? That really well-run team?
"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Dec 18, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
as you probably know
the people that run that team recently changed. of the transactions you mention, only the cliff lee deal was made by the current management. and current management, by most reviews, has been doing a heck of a job so far.
And then fired the GM who signed Bedard and Silve
Trading two prospects for Lee doesn’t seem like a bad deal at all. They were, after all, just prospects which mean the net projection is about 1/2 of a major league player between the two of them.
um
you mean the team that traded 5 prospects for Erik Bedard, signed Carols Silva, fell for Beltre’s 50 HR season, and traded away 2 pretty good prospects for 1 year of Cliff Lee? That really well-run team?
No offense man, but do you have ANY idea what you’re talking about?
That was all Bavasi and co. The new Mariners front office is light and day compared to Bavasi.
Cliff Lee and Felix give them
two #1 pitchers. Chone Figgens will be an improvement on Beltre. Jack Z is doing a great job rebuilding what Bavasi destroyed. So Hendry is trading one of his mistakes for one of Bavasi’s mistakes. Only Seattle doesn’t have the rabid press and fan culture of Chicago and Milton may have a chance of having a good year there.
Seattle may not be a contender but they will be improved in year two of jack Z and Don W.
Baseball is too much of a sport to be a business and too much of a business to be a sport.
William Wrigley Jr
by bubbamike the one and only on Dec 18, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't bother.
He’s an ex-Cub now. Done & gone.
He’ll get more negative reaction when he comes to Chicago to play the White Sox.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I might go to that game
I’ll admit I’m a little too emotional when it comes to these things but the guy said terrible things about a team I love and I refuse to let that go by without retaliation. I know I can’t really do anything as a fan, but I can still hate the guy and yell at him
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Dec 18, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
not to be mean ...
but don’t you have anything better to do?
Sure
I’m just saying if I’m given a chance at tickets, I wouldn’t turn them down. I won’t go out of my way to get them, but if they’re available, I’ll take my chance.
Look I realize my stance is extremely biased and insane. But it would make me feel better, at least about last year. As a Chicago sports fan, I’ve had very little to be happy about in the past few years. I’m not much for hockey. So this would sort of be me taking my anger out
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Dec 18, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
and on someone
who isn’t responsible for what you’re not happy about.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
I'd say he is
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Dec 18, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
and you'd be wrong.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No kittens to kick?
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
Absolutely absurd
You hate him? He didn’t fit with the club and now he’s gone. Grow up.
Are you familiar with the old robot saying, "Does not compute"?
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 18, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
I'm allowed to do what I want to do
I’m not encouraging others to do it. If I want to yell and scream, allow me to do it. When I spill a beer on you or keep you from enjoying the game, I’ll stop
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Dec 18, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
Johnny Macchione
is that you?
"I don’t know how you guys measure worth…but I do know you idiots need a graph to show you that Josh Fields sucks…"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Dec 18, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
Hahaha
the guy said terrible things about a team I love and I refuse to let that go by without retaliation.
The guy said that Cubs fans are too negative, so you want to prove him wrong by flying to Seattle and heckling him.
by Wreckard on Dec 18, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
No, I'm commenting on when he said
That he wasn’t surprised that it’s been a century
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Dec 18, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
Wait, you're willing to fly out there and heckle him and you don't even remember what he said?
“And you understand why they haven’t won in 100 years here, because it’s negative. It’s what it is.”
Asked whether he was talking about the fans, the media or even the Cubs organization, he replied: “It’s everything. It’s everybody.”
Yeah...
… any cubs fan that goes out of his way to be a dick to MB now is basically proving MB’s very point.
Don’t be that guy.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
JFTR...
… I would never do anything like that. MB is gone. His time as a Cub is over. I’m moving on.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I would assume you'd be above that. No worries.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
you're talking about a man
who was just traded for SILVA.
Maybe you want to dial down the irony? Magnets can hit pretty hard.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Oh wow, yeah
That’s worth a plane ticket. You’ll show him.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Dec 18, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not surprised it's been a century either
Please don’t come to Wyoming to heckle me (it’s expensive to fly here and kind of dangerous to drive over the mountains this time of year) and you wouldn’t really get much of a reaction.
Actually I did a back-of-the-napkin analysis (here back-of-the-napkin means I used baseball-reference.com and xcalc) of this and decided that from the start of the “curse” through WWII or so the Cubs were somewhat unlucky not to win a World Series. From that point until the present they’ve mostly been a really poorly run team that’s given itself few opportunities to succeed; that combined with expansion makes them hardly unlucky at all.
by aldimond on Dec 18, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
who knows, maybe hell think theyre seattle fans
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 18, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly.
Anyone have any alanis pictures? Maybe with her hand in her pocket?
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
Won't have to do that
Seattle will dump him midseason and he wil get picked up by an NL team.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Cincy
Baker lurves him some race-baiters.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Dec 18, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Dusty was smart enough to pass on MB a few years ago
If you can believe it.
Yeah, but that was before he called Chicago a racist city
That’s right in Baker’s wheelhouse.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
it was after MB called an LA Times reporter an Uncle Tom
Anyway, I don’t think Dusty wants race baiters. He’s a dumb manager, but there are some criticisms that aren’t really fair.
well, MB does have a high OBCP...
Dusty should like that.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Racist!
/sarcasm.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 18, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
I was kidding folks.
Just thought it was funny that we will, in fact, play against him this year. At least we’re scheduled to…
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Wow! That's so middle schoolish.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Mrs. Zeke already planned to go the games in Seattle and visit her sister.
In that order…
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
Does that mean Milton Bradley won't be at the Cubs Convention?
I guess Richie Hebner will have to settle for shortest line for an autograph this year :(
Put away the tomatoes and eggs kids. You won't be needing them.
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
Wow. Thank god Costco didn't overreact...
much…
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
Man...
And I had work to do, oh well.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 18, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
Nah
He’ll just invent something better.
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
Ok Al you are the Happy ONE
The dump Milton at all costs one. If the Cubs are actually paying Silva three million MORE this is beyond INSANE. Per post in other thread this deal is WORSE than signing Bradley in the first place.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 18, 2009 12:13 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Disagree for one reason
Silva can only do damage every 5 days. Bradley potentially could ever at-bat.
yeah like all those AB's
where he got on base last year. really damaged the club.
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I know your stance
So there’s no reason to debate anything with you regarding Bradley. I’m glad he’s gone and I don’t care who replaces him.
good for you.
glad you put your personal distaste for certain players over the Cubs. Maybe we should rename the team the “AK123 Approved Baseball Club”.
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
Here's a thought
When I respond to someone elses post, don’t respond to mine. If I actually cared what you actually wrote I’d respond or bother to read your posts.
But all you seem to do is attack people who don’t agree with you. And people like that are as big of a cancer on BCB as Bradley was to the Cubs.
by ak123 on Dec 18, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I see people posting this type of comment occasionally.
I just wanted to mention that this entire thread and site is a collective conversation of BCB members. You’re free to have a private conversation but that’s not what this venue is all about.
If you don’t want people to engage you in conversation or only want to have a conversation with a particular member, feel free to do so in a private environment. BCB is simply not that type of venue.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 18, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
Really?
I had no idea since I’ve been active on here for 3 years.
My problem is this person has attacked my posts with no warrant in the past and I’m not interested in engaging in conversations with someone who goes out of his way to be that way. That’s not why I come to BCB.
You might try using Twitter.
That way you can choose who to follow and who can follow you.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 18, 2009 7:53 PM CST up reply actions
You're missing the point
Calcalender has been rude to me in the past. He’s made obnoxious comments such as “you’re not a smart enough Cubs fan to be here”, and other things like that. And today I wasn’t going to have that debate again. That’s why I said what I said.
I don’t need twitter or any other social network to discuss the Cubs. I just choose to not have conversations with that one person.
In other words,
You posted a note to someone to say that you were ignoring him . . . .
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 19, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions
Its always nice to be FYI'd on something of that nature.
:-)
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 19, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
Not at first
Originally I stated that I knew his stance and didn’t want to argue on here over our opposing sides. He of course didn’t stop so I made it clear I wasn’t going to do one of these ridiculous arguments on BCB. Which ironically is what this turned into.
No...
But his poisonous attitude and cancerous presence in the clubhouse did.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 18, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah. Like that one time when
Reed Johnson refused to take the field because Bradley hurt his feelings…
Oh wait…
Hooray for CubsStats.blogspot.com !
I'm not familiar with this stat - poisonous attitude
Is this a new form of sabermetrics I’m not aware of?
Are you familiar with the old robot saying, "Does not compute"?
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 18, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
My apologies...
I forgot that baseball and sports in general are played by robots and that all aspects of the game can be accurately measured a projected through sabermetrics and stats alone.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 18, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
nope
which is why sabermetrics are not the end all and be all to every discussion
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 18, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
WHAT
Since when did they change the rules and make it so sabermetrics were NOT the only way we evaluate players…dangit…seriously people, someone needs to keep me in the loop here
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
its the opposite of grit
“http://www.royalsreview.com/2008/5/14/509719/measuring-intangibles-%E2%80%93-th”
We don't know the dollar details yet.
Maybe it will be equalized.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
This trade makes me want to vomit
I’ll take a clubhouse “cancer” over a terrible pitcher any day.
Congrats Bradley haters, you win. And the rest of us will suffer because of it.
Chicagoan in the Lou.
by Mike Martin on Dec 18, 2009 12:13 PM CST reply actions 12 recs
You're going to need that liver watching Silva pitch.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Bill Potter on Dec 18, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
That was a great episode of House
But I’m not sure I have a liver left to give to the Cubs. :)
Chicagoan in the Lou.
by Mike Martin on Dec 18, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
+1
Come visit me inside Wrigley along the Addison side mezzanine fence straight up from 1st base.
by section229beer on Dec 18, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
That was my goal
Making you suffer. Now dance for me, monkeys
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Maybe you'll suffer...
But at least the players won’t have to suffer with him anymore. I’ll take a happy Cub team over a happy Mike Martin.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 18, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
Why are we flipping him to the Cards so Duncan an work with him ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 18, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
silva for pujols maybe?
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 18, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
If we threw in Miles they'd do it
Damn you Jim, why’d you trade him?!
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Dec 18, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
no, no, no
Fox would have been able to get the deal done though…
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Best part of this is
that I remember an article that mentioned Carlos Silva being a “clubhouse cancer” in Seattle about a year ago.
Good times folks, good times
You're citing Bleacher Report as a source?
Gimme a break.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
alright Al
bury your head deeper in the sand if you can. I have give you a source more real than anything you can do to show that Silva is a “good” clubhouse guy. So has the person below me.
Prove me wrong.
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Bleacher Report is not a "source".
It’s a bunch of high school kids writing.
And you can cut the “prove me wrong” crap.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Ok
explain this one.
http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/mariners/2009/04/26/life_on_the_beat_don_t_irk_the_buffalo
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
You're citing that as "clubhouse cancer"?
Try again. He didn’t want to talk to a writer, who then wrote a “poor me” piece.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
this is a joke al
Milton Bradley did the SAME THING and you skewered him over here. Get over yourself and TRY to be fair about this please.
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
It's not the same thing at all.
But your biases apparently prevent you from seeing that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
…
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
Heh.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
Laughing in agreement?
Or at the irony of drew suggesting Al has biases?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 18, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
How about both?
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
Works for me.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 18, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Its like the pot and the kettle are in a screaming match.
“No, YOU are blacker!”
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
It's not the same thing at all.
But your biases apparently prevent you from seeing that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
explain
to me the compelex differences here. So far there have been 3 seperate links showing Silva to be a problem.
You have thrown one out because you dont like the source
Igrnoed the other one
And said Silva screaming at beat writes is somehow not the same as Milton doing it.
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
The three links, as far as I can tell...
… are all referring to the same incident. I didn’t see anything about “screaming”.
So you’re going to take one incident and compare it to MB wearing out his welcome in seven different cities?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You are so unbelievably stubborn
Replace Carlos Silva with Milton Bradley and you’d be posting these links repeatedly as sources backing your insistence on why Bradley needs to be traded.
Are you familiar with the old robot saying, "Does not compute"?
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 18, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
If he flipped out like this in Seattle
How’s it gonna be when he’s in Chicago and the media is hounding him after his third consecutive outing where he was booed mercilessly off the field?
Not pretty, that’s for sure.
Well, at least we ditched an equally crappy player and cut some payroll with this deal.
Oh. Wait.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
Looks like we DID cut payroll....
… if the $9m figure the Cubs are getting in return is true.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That helps.
I now only 75% hate this, and am open to warming on it some more were Hendry to turn those extra $6 million in to something useful.
I always said all i wanted was the team to NOT be handicapped and something useful in return. That may yet happen. I’ll withhold any further judgment for the time being.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
that was Al's
exact argument a winter ago against getting Bradley. If Silva has problems in friendly Seattle just wait until he runs into the holy trinity of Sullivan, Kaplan and Rogers.
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks, Al...
My blog is still picked up in syndication over there.
But to your point, extremely few posters there have any actual journalism background, or outside sourcing.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 18, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
more recently at the WBC:
When the inning ended, Silva walked to the dugout and threw his glove against the wall in frustration. Less than an inning later, Silva was knocked out of the game after giving up a two-run home run to Korea slugger Tae-Kyun Kim. This time, Silva walked to the dugout and did not shake the few hands of teammates who offered their support. He simply walked into the clubhouse and disappeared.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2009/news/story?id=4005018
by Andronicus on Dec 18, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
lol!
waiting for somebody to explain this away.
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
We've NEVER seen Zambrano do anything like that
IIRC there was a Gatorade dispenser that didn’t do well in a fight with him
Guys get angry when they don’t perform well. IT HAPPENS. This isn’t reason enough to say he’s a cancer
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Dec 18, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Great, hope your all happy...
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
Our "all happy" what?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 18, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
ha!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 18, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
well played
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
That's a quote from another link that's already been posted.
Don’t try to make it look like there’s yet another article. Again, this is a writer who Silva didn’t want to talk to one day, and he wrote a “poor me” article.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It didn't come across as a "poor me" article to me
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 18, 2009 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
Carlos Silva was reputed to have threatened bodily harm to one of our players, most likely
Ichiro Suzuki. He said he wanted to “throw them against a wall.”
So yeah, you just traded for a potential cancer.
Here's another link
This one actually defends Siva’s actions in this situation. It’s kind of messed up so you need to scroll down a bit.
Silva’s complaints
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
That's a really good article.
The key point made: Seattle was supposed to contend in 2008 (I picked them to win the AL West — man, was that wrong!) — and didn’t, and everyone was frustrated. They did say that Silva should have made his comments in-house rather than to a reporter, but didn’t deny that what he said was true.
I think someone like Ryan Dempster can help Silva be a good teammate.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I wish someone like Lee would have helped Bradley be a good teammate.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
I'd actually like one too
I don’t remember hearing anything of the sort. It would make me feel better about the team knowing someone had stepped up to try to fix the situation.
He doesn't miss you
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 18, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
Chuckle chuckle
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Dec 18, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Beggars can't be choosers
seems almost as simple as that
No, it IS that black and white
Everybody on earth knew the Cubs had to get rid of MB. Could you imagine what Wrigley would be like if he came out there to start opening day?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 18, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly right
Folks, you have nobody but yourselves to blame for this.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 18, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Agree and disagree
Milton deserves some of the blame too. But to act like this whole episode was something that couldn’t be resolved is amazing. He said some stupid things, but everyone (the front office and the fans) needed to get over it and accept his apology.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
Bradley didn't apologize.
That statement wasn’t an apology. It was an “I’m sorry I got caught being an ass” statement.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 18, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
Double Rec'd
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Dec 18, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Well whatever your interpertation of that statement
the fact is he said “I’m sorry”. Was it likely heartfelt? Probably not. But it should have been enough for everyone to move on and not resort to this sort of trade
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
I'm sorry but I don't believe for one minute
that Bradley wrote that statement. It seems likely his agent or publicist wrote it.
Now, Milton may have approved the statement but it’s just not the same.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 18, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
What would make one believe that Milton had wrote it?
Is there anything that the statement could have said that would have made anyone believe that Milton wrote it? If not why even bother apologizing if everyone has already made their mind up that they won’t forgive you and they don’t believe you if you decide to apologize?
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
it should have been
enough.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
After a guy kicks you in the crotch and insults your wife...
“I’m sorry” should be enough.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
poor analogy.
unless you were egging the guy on all this time.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, that's all the fan base did from day one.
Sure.
o.0
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 18, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
we've had this discussion before.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
Not the only one that you keep rehashing
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 18, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
Except
that is what the fanbase did and the reporters.
Milton is a jackass. Accepted. Milton attempted to keep to himself and avoid the media and the Cubs forced him to talk. Of course, he should have been a professional and sucked it up. But to act like the fans and the media weren’t licking their lips before the ink was wet is ridiculous.
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
Yes, us the fans really wanted Milton to be discouraged and feel bad and be angry at us...
we all really wanted him to fail…we like to pick out one player each year and attack, attack, attack until that player cries. Like sinking the Sub. Please.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe the lip licking was overkill
but Bradley was getting crap before he said anything to anyone in Chicago. And seriously, attacking is one thing that Cubs’ fans are really good at.
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
“…Bradley was getting crap before he said anything to anyone in Chicago.”
Citation Needed.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
Obviously this link is from a message board
But i’m sorry I didn’t walk around with a tape recorder recording fan reactions. There plenty more comments posted on articles giving Bradley crap.
‘Blessed’ Bradley signs with Cubs
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
Milton reads message boards?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 6:15 PM CST up reply actions
Fine
I’m not really in the mood to argue with your pointless sarcasm. I acknowledged it was a message board. And it’s obvious a message board isn’t representative of an entire fan base. However it does show what I said which was that Bradley was taking crap before ever saying anything.
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
It doesn't show that at all. Bradley didn't "take" anything.
There are people here complaining about Hendry and Silva. Are those guys “taking crap” right now? Come on.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 6:23 PM CST up reply actions
Yes
Because before Siva has played, before he has arrived in Chicago, people already resent him. And as I said in the initial post, Bradley should have behaved like a professional and he didn’t. I wasn’t excusing his behavior, I was stating that yes the fan base, at least part, was against Bradley.
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
The fact that a segment of the fanbase wasn't happy with him only makes his signing...
just like every single other free agent ever signed by a professional sports team.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 6:30 PM CST up reply actions
Do you enjoy like these kind of discussions
Where you make some pseudo-funny remark on the fringe of being relevant so that you can engage your witty sarcasm only to then completely ignore your original statement to make some other point?
I made a comment and you decided to make a sarcastic response. I admitted that I went overboard with my initial statement but still stated that I felt fans were against milton from the start. Your response? More sarcasm. And then more sarcasm. And now you say that’s what every signing is, oh yeah with more sarcasm.
So what really was your point in all this? To show how funny you are?
Considering you ended up saying what you asked me to cite, I don’t really think you had one.
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
Calm down.
My response wasn’t sarcastic. I asked you to cite an example of where or how Milton had to “take crap” before he ever got here or said anything. You didn’t really give an example that showed that. I gave you a related scenario with Hendry and Silva showing you why your example wasn’t valid. Again, not sarcasm. You then countered by telling me that “at least part” of the fanbase was against him, and I’m only pointing out that every FA signing has detractors.
If I was trying to be “funny” I would have posted a picture of a man and wife holding a parrot and machine gun.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
Fascinating
SWL does indeed tend to pmake sarcastic comments at times, yet he was replying to you in a nuetral tone and asking legit questionsmaking legit statements, yet you replied based on what you perceive his reputation to be.
All the while, you berate fans for responding to a player’s rep.
Neat, eh?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 19, 2009 9:56 AM CST up reply actions
I was going to let it go
This is not a neutral tone, this was his first reply
Yes, us the fans really wanted Milton to be discouraged and feel bad and be angry at us…
we all really wanted him to fail…we like to pick out one player each year and attack, attack, attack until that player cries. Like sinking the Sub. Please.
It’s fine with me if this part of the thread dies.
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
We're now the 6th team that has needed to get over it and accept his apology.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Over/under on when Seattle fans get asked to do this
I’m taking June 1
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I don't think you see him get traded this season
Next off season maybe. He’ll DEFINITELY be on the market
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Dec 18, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
??
How am I to blame for anything regarding Milton Bradley? I didn’t want him here, didn’t agree to an above market deal with him, didn’t tell the front office that they couldn’t eat a chunk of the deal, and didn’t sit there with a gun over Hendry’s head making him pick up Silva.
So, what exactly are you talking about?
by Damen Jackson on Dec 18, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
It's the latest spin
The fans are responsible for every bad thing that happens to the Cubs. They’d have won 116 games if the fans just loved them all a little more.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Dec 18, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
+1
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Dec 18, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
Do you really think
MB would have been treated neutrally had he come back to the Cubs next year? Not having roses thrown at his feet, but not booed off the field? Yeah, and I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
You wanted him gone, you got him gone. Now, STFU.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 18, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
I'm happy he's gone
I am so very sick of the “fans did it” mentality.
Bradley didn’t do the job he was brought here to do and threw a hissy fit. He’s gone. Get out. Fuck you.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Most of Bradley's problem is Bradley
but don’t tell me the reaction of the fans had little to do with it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 18, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I already blamed myself
by your directive. Wow, do I feel terrible he is gone.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Dec 18, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
And again, I ask what does that have to do with me?
He wasn’t terribly neutral to me, given the comments that he made.
It’s fascinating that you take issue with the common fan over behavior and decisions made by millionaires, and billion-dollar corporations.
And STFU? Here’s a better idea, go GFYS.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 18, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
there's a superfluous G in there, I think.
How about you both knock off the abbreviated swearing?
by Orval Overall on Dec 18, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
Actually, I think the "S" is superfluous
And how about we abbreviate the abbreviated swearing?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 18, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
well, he typed out the word "go" before the abbreviation, so either that "go" or the G was superfluous
What would abbreviated abbreviated swearing look like?
by Orval Overall on Dec 18, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
"Yourself" is one word, no?
And my brain is too fried from all these posts to even consider the appearance of abbreviated abbreviated swearing?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 18, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
I hereby blame myself.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Dec 18, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
Very upset
The money is about the only thing that makes sense in this situation. It might be a looooong season next year.
http://www.fivetoolfans.com
Right
Except Milton Bradley is still a valuable player. He makes their offense significantly better as a RH DH/4th outfielder. Silva gives us a very expensive and bad back of the rotation.
http://www.fivetoolfans.com
by mykalmorgan on Dec 18, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
Marshall > Silva
Bradley > Silva
this trade does nothing to help us. We should have just outright CUT Bradley instead
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Or, you know... fielded the most talented team.
Everybody talks about how baseball is an individual sport, but some guy doesn’t respond to Theriot’s fantasy football trade requests quickly enough and he’s gotta go. Ugh.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
Silva is not a back end of the rotation pitcher
He is the back end a horse pitcher. Worse numbers of any MLB starter over last two years.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 18, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Amen Sister!
He was Bavasi’s worst signing and Bavasi was the worst GM in Baseball.
Baseball is too much of a sport to be a business and too much of a business to be a sport.
William Wrigley Jr
by bubbamike the one and only on Dec 18, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know about that,
I think Jim Bowden may have been worse or at least in the discussion.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 18, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions
At least
w e didn’t take on Vernon Well’s contract, but why take this POS?
by 100 Years is Nothing on Dec 18, 2009 12:16 PM CST reply actions
the ballhawks give this deal a thumbs up!
Mentioned this in the other thread…
Silva has a propensity to give up the long ball. He gave up 20+ homers for 5 straight years (2004-08) including a league-leading 38 in 2006. 38!!!! Just for reference sakes, Harden led the Cubs last year with 23 (Demp and Lilly right behind at 22).
Hendry, you’re a durn fool but I love ya for it!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Its raining balls!
Can you TWSS yourself? I think i just did.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
I think i just did.
TWSS
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
Want to make a bet
That Jack Z and Wakamatsu get something out of Milton who will enjoy Seattle where racist fans won’t harass him.
Baseball is too much of a sport to be a business and too much of a business to be a sport.
William Wrigley Jr
by bubbamike the one and only on Dec 18, 2009 12:19 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I think Milton is going to do fine in Seattle.
Little national media presence, very mellow fans (too mellow, our fans suck), easygoing media, Ken Griffey Jr. etc.
How does this trade"fix" Hendry's mistake?
it just compounds it.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on Dec 18, 2009 12:20 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Their never was gonna be a Bradley trade
that was gonna fix anything. What were you expecting?
She asked: Are you a hopeless romantic?
I answered: I'm a Cubs fan, of course I am.
by Zy Toro Young on Dec 18, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
I'm just referring to Al's post above that this fixes Hendry's previous mistake
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
Okay, but it doesnt necessarily compound it.
If it does, we dont know yet.
She asked: Are you a hopeless romantic?
I answered: I'm a Cubs fan, of course I am.
by Zy Toro Young on Dec 18, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
Fair enough , lets just say it "continues it"
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
i would have rather gotten a bag of magic beans
than Carlos Silva.
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
11.5 mil this year
11.5 mil next year, 12 million dollar mutual option (with 2 mil buyout).
2 years, 25 million dollars.
Money may be coming back to Cubs
From Muscat’s blog entry:
The deal will be made official once Major League Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig approves the transaction because of the money involved.
That usually means more than $1 million is trading hands.
are you sure it's Seattle sending the Cubs money...
…and not the other way around??? ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Of course I am not sure
I am just hoping for a bit of sanity.
That's going to be hard to find around here today. :)
"Juuuuuuussst a bit outside. He tried for the corner and missed..."
- Harry Doyle
by Rusty in Peoria on Dec 18, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Um Yes
Nobody would take ON salary for Bradley. I am sure they could have traded him to the Rays, eaten ALL the salary and gotten a bag no two bags of balls . That might have been better.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 18, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Silva makes about $3 mil more than Bradley
we’re giving them Bradley and cash! what a sweet deal Jim!
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
How do you know this?
Why not wait to see what’s actually announced rather than assume the Cubs are paying the extra money?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/cubs-mariners-talking-bradley-trade.html
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
Two points.
1. If you put a link in the subject line of a comment, it won’t be clickable. Put it in the body of the comment.
2. I don’t see anything in that link that says the Cubs are paying the difference.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
cut and paste
and it’s likely that the Cubs will be paying the difference. given the history of this team and how Hendry does deals, why would you think differently?
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
Because I'm willing to wait and see....
… what the official announcement is, rather than make assumptions.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If you cut & paste...
… put it in the bigger box in the comment, not the smaller one.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
i will next time
and Hendry has never been a money saver … he’s a money waster.
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
When I said that moving MB would be for the best
because we’d get a player of equal or slightly less calibre, but at least they’d have a smiling face, well, the scenario that played out today isn’t exactly that…
There’s still time for something additional to happen, but at this point in time, we’ve been pimped out.
Hey, I guess to look at things in a positive light, if Chicago wanted the title of fattest city, I think they’ve got it locked down now.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 18, 2009 12:24 PM CST reply actions
Hey, I guess to look at things in a positive light, if Chicago wanted the title of fattest city, I think they’ve got it locked down now.
soto and silva will lead us to the promised fat land!
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 18, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
Because they just unloaded the worst starting pitcher in baseball
for a reasonably useful player.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 18, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not wild about this trade, either, Jess, but
this is what Cubs fans wanted. MB off the team at all costs.
They got their wish. Now, deal with it.
Or maybe adjust your attitudes a little.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 18, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
its not
what all cubs fans wanted…
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 18, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Painting with a bit of a broad brush, aren't you?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 18, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
The recent polls here...
… seem to indicate that a broad bush is appropriate in this case, unfortunately.
I’d be jumping with joy if i was a Mariners fan. We basically gift wrapped a good player, dropped it in their living room, and offered to take their trash with us as we left.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
An unscientific poll on a largely anonymous blog
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 18, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
SB, most people here have been whining all offseason
Mostly revolving around the MB situation. By any means necessary, he was to be traded.
Well, now he has been. Still, the whining continues.
It’s not what all Cubs fans wanted, but it’s what a landslide majority of Cubs fans wanted. If you’re not part of that crowd and haven’t been all along, say so. But if you have been part of that crowd, you now have no right to complain.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 18, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
I haven't been one of the "get rid of him at all costs" crowd
I wanted him gone, but Rowand would have been a better return. This isn’t a good trade.
I also wanted the Cubs to sign him in the first place and I admit that I was wrong about that.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 18, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
you're conveniently
mixing groups of people and giving them the same attributes
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 18, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
I think I was pretty clear
about the distinctions.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 18, 2009 4:34 PM CST up reply actions
I mean, true...
… but you can’t really believe the results of the polls this fall and winter have been that far off, right?
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
Hard to say, really
I know some knowledgable Cubs fans that don’t visit blogs at all.
And, let’s face it – people are stupid. Tangential example – rainout vs. PGH in 2003, end of season. Next day is announced as a traditional DH because of TV rules, instead of day-night. People were livid at the TribCo insisting that they were being screwed. I was there and astounded by the idocy – how does losing $3,000,000 of gate receipts benefit the company and screw the fans? But people wanted to be angry.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 18, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
Of course, "idocy" is really, really bad idiocy . . . .
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 18, 2009 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
Applies to more than that situation alone, methinks.
But people wanted to be angry.
And, let’s face it – people are stupid.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
Indeed
It was meant to
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 18, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
The Cub fans
should not be the ones making player decisions.
Baseball is too much of a sport to be a business and too much of a business to be a sport.
William Wrigley Jr
by bubbamike the one and only on Dec 18, 2009 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
But I certainly think they had a hand in this one.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 18, 2009 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
They have common sense
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
What is there
not to love? You actually just got something useful back for Carlos Silva? If Bradley goes bust, they can just release him, as the Silva deal was a sunk cost that they weren’t getting return on anyway.
Who in the hell would object to this deal?
by Damen Jackson on Dec 18, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
They are ditching Silva
I’d be happy if I were them too.
Check back on May 15 when Bradley has accused Starbucks of racism.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
"They asked if i want my coffee black! Black!"
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 18, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
"I can't play in this town
because dead Kurt Cobain is too racist for me."
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 18, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
Anyone venture over to the....
Mariners’ SBN site for their reaction?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 18, 2009 12:27 PM CST reply actions
I don't want to be sick, so I am not going there.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 18, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
Anyone who’s pissed about getting a very good hitter for an absolutely shitty pitcher has issues.
by LetsMakeADeal on Dec 18, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
Right...
Because ALL you get with Bradley is a “very good hitter”? Might want to rethink that.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 18, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
Perhaps they recognize...
… that Bradley’s other issues have very little to do with his and his teams on field success?
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
I beg to differ...
But that’s okay.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 18, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
check those links
The Seattle fans don’t seem to think that Silva has a great attitude, either.
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
Unfortunately
why does everyone think all Cubs fans hate Bradley. Another bunch of crap from the media! I was disappointed in Bradley, but heck why “hate” the guy.
They'll turn on him once he starts his act over there
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
How anyone can put a postive spin on this,
is beyond me. This is bad bad bad bad. No matter how you shake it. Stop drinking the Koolaid.
by LetsMakeADeal on Dec 18, 2009 12:28 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Spin or shake...
As long as Bradley is gone, it’s a good move.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 18, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
I'll put a qualifier on that.
Carlos Silva has been a bad pitcher for two years. Could he get better? Maybe. But getting Bradley off the team makes the entire situation better.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Its not positive, but its not that negative either.
No Bradley deal was gonna be to far in either direction.
She asked: Are you a hopeless romantic?
I answered: I'm a Cubs fan, of course I am.
by Zy Toro Young on Dec 18, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
My take is I would rather have the bad pitcher than hitter
because with a pitcher you can: 1. Work with them on a new pitch or grip 2. Pair them with a catcher that calls a better game 3. Pull them out if they can get through 5 and you’re not down 7 runs 4. Put them in the bull pen 5. Have another pitcher influence them into changing mechanics to improve 6. Have Rothchild make him serviceable….. on and on……..
But, with a bad hitter they just kill you ever time they’re up or you set them. Pitchers can get out of ruts. Look at what a bad pitcher Glendon R. was for the Cubs but when he came over we actually got some use out of him for a while.
Trading Bradley was never going to be a good deal for us. Let’s move on here, nothing to see. Let’s fix the rest and hope this works out.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Dec 18, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
agreed...
Bradley isn’t a bad hitter though. There’s literally no chance he’ll have a negative value in the box score. He’s better than average, more likely much better and he’ll be better than the Mariners’ alternatives… as long as he keeps out of trouble (which is unlikely, but when he does, the Mariners can just cut him, like they were probably going to do Silva and take the added performance on the field they got out of Bradley).
Silva is a very bad, very expensive (even at discount) pitcher who cannot get left handers out so you really can’t use him in the pen either.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Dec 18, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
We will know by August how good or bad this was.
I can take a wait and see approach. I have no choice do I?
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
maybe...
but i don’t think it will take that long. And we don’t have a choice as long as we remain Cubs fans. We can just fight against really stupid moves by the team we love.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Dec 18, 2009 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
Waiting...
… to see the final deal, but at first glance this is the worst possible solution to the “Bradley Problem.” The Cubs get a player in return that has zero value to the team, while not freeing up any money. Again, waiting to see the money involved, but it can’t be that significant.
Any of the other three options, Burrell, cutting MB, or holding onto him would have been better.
This might be the move that proves to be Hendry’s final straw. Really hoping against hope that something good comes out of this.
by Tangled Up In Blue on Dec 18, 2009 12:28 PM CST reply actions
Would you rank...
Outright releasing him above/below this move?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 18, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
B'low
Come visit me inside Wrigley along the Addison side mezzanine fence straight up from 1st base.
by section229beer on Dec 18, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Above
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 18, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
In a way, above.
Again, waiting to see the final terms of the deal before, and how the whole thing shakes out. At first glance however, the Cubs are now on the hook for more money over the same amount of years to a player that quite literally could have zero value to the team over the course of this contract.
Again, nothing has been finalized, and Silva could have productive years, but looking at Silva’s track record, he doesn’t appear to be a useful 5th starter let alone worth a fraction of his deal.
I was/am all for removing Bradley from the Cubs. I also realize that getting something favorable in return is impossible, however this move may actually hurt the team.
by Tangled Up In Blue on Dec 18, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
9 Million
If the Cubs in fact did recieve 9 mil from the Marines, this becomes the a much better deal than originally thought and we should all wait to see how that money is spent.
Regardless of what Silva does, if the money allows JH to make a better move, the Cubs are better off.
by Tangled Up In Blue on Dec 18, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
Don't know what some of you expected.
Silva, if healthy, is only going to be asked to be a 5th starter in the NL. He won’t be “the problem” this year.
nothing like a fifth starter
making 11.5 million dollars.
Jason Marquis
is light-years beyond better than Silva.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
no
but keeping a good baseball player was.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
We've been through that.
No matter how “good” Bradley was, keeping him was not an option, either.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I know you believe that
but your belief doesn’t necessarily make it true.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
In any case...
… it’s done now. Maybe Silva will suck, maybe he won’t. The Cubs got some financial relief.
It could have been better, but it could have been worse, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So now that Milton is no longer a Cub...
can we stop talking about him?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Last year?
Just who would you have had him replace?
by GoBackToSchaumburg on Dec 18, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
rather eat on a plaer that is somewhat useful
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
I was already having a shitty day..
..this trade blows. Milton will own in seattle. Silva..yuck..fml :(
We Got This!
Well, so much for Mayor Smith's interview post...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Additional thought
if you’ve seen UHF, you’ll understand this, but the Cubs are officially the woman who chose the box.
STUPID! YOU’RE SO STUPID!
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Dec 18, 2009 12:29 PM CST reply actions
BTW Silva is a CLUBHOUSE CANCER
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/46799-seattle-mariners-clubhouse-in-turmoil
Recently many of these frustrations have been coming to a head, and players have begun throwing each other under the bus publicly.
This all started about a week ago when Carlos Silva mouthed off to the media about how the pitchers have all been showing up focused, and ready to go, while the batters are playing lackadaisically.
Really? The batters are to blame for you being possibly the worst starting pitcher in the major leagues. You lead the AL in losses, and have a dispicable ERA of 5.93. I would say you should look in the mirror before blaming others for your shortcomings.
Silva was brought in to be a veteran leader in the clubhouse, and to solidify the pitching staff. Leaders typically do not blame other players on the team publicly. Generally, they lead by example, take due blame, or if needed to, call out players behind closed doors.
Nice choice, Jim
Please don't believe anything you read on Bleacher Report
We’ve been over this many times.
Harry Caray: Marshall is going back to LA to get cocaine for his injured foot.
Steve Stone: Harry, that’s Novocaine.
by Julio Zuleta's Voodoo on Dec 18, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
So Silva didn’t call out his teammates when he sucked?
by LetsMakeADeal on Dec 18, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Here you go
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2008101921_mari09.html
That Bleacher Report just had a little commentary built in.
by LetsMakeADeal on Dec 18, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Those statements hardly rank him as "clubhouse cancer".
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Or this
http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/mariners/2009/04/26/life_on_the_beat_don_t_irk_the_buffalo
Silva screaming profanity at beat writers. Sound familiar?
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
And he feuds with reporters
http://www.mlbnotebook.com/2009-articles/april/carlos_silva_is_mean.html
Are you familiar with the old robot saying, "Does not compute"?
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 18, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
Wrong link
Original:
http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/mariners/2009/04/26/life_on_the_beat_don_t_irk_the_buffalo
Are you familiar with the old robot saying, "Does not compute"?
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 18, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's just the kind of firey leadership this team needs!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
lol
at least Sullivan will have a new friend next year.
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks. Exactly. He’s as big of an asshole as Milton.. But hey, he’s not black.
by LetsMakeADeal on Dec 18, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
That guy kinda looks like Toby Kieth.
Censorship of anything, at any time, in any place, on whatever pretense, has always been and will always be the last resort of the boob and the bigot.
—Eugene O’Neill
by 14theofleury on Dec 19, 2009 6:30 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Oh give me a F*cking break!!!! This is the single stupedist comment in the history of BCB, CONGRATULATIONS!
Silva has made snippy freaking comments to reporters, big freakin’ deal. Do you have any clue what you are talking about?! I am guessing you haven’t the slightest clue about anything you are talking about right now.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
are you sure
you know what you are talking about?
by CalCalender on Dec 18, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
He's basically calling everyone who doesn't like MB a racist
Milton Bradley will now be going to his 8th club in 10 seasons. Silva’s will be on his 4th in nine years, and that includes four season under Ron Gardenhire. The guy is hated by both fans and teammates alike no matter where he goes, the entire league and fanbase of baseball is not racist, but that’s exactly what the Einstein above said.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Thanks for this link instead.
I’m not trying to defend Silva, just pointing out that Bleacher Report should never be used as a source.
Harry Caray: Marshall is going back to LA to get cocaine for his injured foot.
Steve Stone: Harry, that’s Novocaine.
by Julio Zuleta's Voodoo on Dec 18, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Not good, same problem different guy
Isn’t mouthing off in the media what got us into this mess. Cubs fans were too upset by Milton’s comments which made them HAVE to trade him AT ALL COSTS!!!
So we trade him for a pitcher that calls out his teammates in the press. Ugh.
At least Milton wasn’t calling out his teammates for their play on the field.
Always loyal to Leon
by 239 Brigade on Dec 18, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Carlos Silva
……………..to think the Cub’s were going to get anything useful is asinine. There is a small chance that Silva can be a competent # 5 starter though. Maybe coming to the NL can help………..let’s face it…..one way or another we were paying MB in 2011 no matter what.
What’s the over/under for number of comments in this thread?? lol
by plenz on Dec 18, 2009 12:32 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
1050
I take the over
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Dec 18, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Hmmm...
Not exactly sure the ruling on that. Might have to call upstairs
Right now I’d say this one alone can get to that total
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Dec 18, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
And the duplicate posts
As late as Sunday, we’re going to get, “Hey, guys, guess what I just heard…”posts.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Only 1050?
The over’s a lock at that number, I’d say. :)
"Juuuuuuussst a bit outside. He tried for the corner and missed..."
- Harry Doyle
by Rusty in Peoria on Dec 18, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
Jake Fox is bummed - he wanted to hold on to the record a little while longer...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
We'll send him a fruit basket to make him feel better
Throw some corn in there, I bet he misses it from Iowa…
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Dec 18, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
The level of over reaction
per limited official detail of this deal is staggering. Simmer down.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will
by Slakkr on Dec 18, 2009 12:32 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Right.
If and when Carlos Silva does anything good for the Cubs, I’ll make sure to link back to this post.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
guess that depends on what you define as "good"
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 18, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Pizza is good.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 18, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
I can't even win
my 8 person fantasy league, so I’ll reserve that Hendry might know more than me for know.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will
by Slakkr on Dec 18, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And refer back to it when Milton has .380 OBP for Seattle
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
and Seattle is in 4th place.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
They finished higher than that last year
And had a better record than us too. Now they’ve been able to pick up a Cy Young winner, one of the top FA prospects (Figgens), and traded their worse pitcher for a outfielder whose flaws are not likely to be exacerbated playing in a city like Seattle.
I'm not
going to hold my breath.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
Aren't you going to defend Silva?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
Only if the Chicago media writes something negative about him
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 18, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
why?
he’s a bad baseball player. He plays badly UPON THE FIELD. Milton Bradley is NOT a bad baseball player.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure I never told anyone to root for Aaron Miles. FWIW.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
he sure was last year
Dare I give the Cubs my heart again?
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 18, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
no
he was mediocre last year.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
.257 BA with 40 RBI in 124 games is not mediocre.
That’s just plain BAD my friend. (and that’s not even bring up defense and other intangibles)
Dare I give the Cubs my heart again?
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 18, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
Bradley has always played decent defense.
Using RBIs and batting average to evaluate a player is rather flawed. Bradley was actually a decent player last year, as many Cubs fans on here correctly realize./
I'd agree with this,
But given the amount of banter that surrounded a potential deal for Bradley during the winter meeting posts, it’s a practical impossibility to expect.
"Juuuuuuussst a bit outside. He tried for the corner and missed..."
- Harry Doyle
by Rusty in Peoria on Dec 18, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, it's going to get much worse - trust me.
I don’t think there’s been a BLou sighting yet, has there?
It’s Friday… just sit back, grab your favorite beverage and enjoy the show…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
It did!
<img src=“”http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii83/fonzie2178/?action=view¤t=erichanna.jpg" target="_blank">
"/>
by Fonzie2178 on Dec 18, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
eric hanna lives!
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 18, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
also, my PSP won’t play this game. What do you suggest?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
I'm just glad it's a slow Friday at the office.
"Juuuuuuussst a bit outside. He tried for the corner and missed..."
- Harry Doyle
by Rusty in Peoria on Dec 18, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
I am off to lunch
somehow I still have an appetite. I expect my computer to crash when I try to log in here again
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 18, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
good idea.
I’m off to lunch too. I assume this post will be up to 1200 comments by the time i get back!
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
Dumpster Diving Jim
Still living off the trades he made with Pittsburgh years ago for Ramirez and Florida for Lee. While all the other teams are looking for free agents to help, Jim is looking to find that diamond in the rough. And how many has he found?
Never mind the overpaying of free agents (Bradley, Miles, Marquis Jacque Jones.) Really, would it have been any worse than if we just released Bradley?
I’ve never been one to call for Hendry’s head before, but I think he has to go.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
This wasn't...
A “find a diamond in the rough” trade, it was a dump Bradley trade. I wouldn’t read too much into the player they got back.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 18, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
The issue is what did Hendry get with a 3yr/30 mil contract...
I’d be fine with releasing Hendry on Monday.
Come visit me inside Wrigley along the Addison side mezzanine fence straight up from 1st base.
by section229beer on Dec 18, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
+ 100
The Soriano deal was questionable. But MB? Beyond insane.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
I never realized
how many people on here seem to believe they know what it takes to run a Major League team
so many people believe that releasing milton, keeping him, getting decent trade value, were all possibilities hendry never explored or thought to explore,
but come on, none of us know that, we can all whine and complain that the sucks at his job, yada yada, but none of us having any experience doing his job, and most of never will
by CubsFan87 on Dec 18, 2009 12:35 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
No, it's not.
But it may have been the only way to deal Bradlye.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If we don't get any money in return, it's horrible because it does not help out the starting rotation at all
really…you want Carlos Silva pitching every five days for us?
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
There in lies my point
what I “want” as a fan and what is actually possible are not the same
Not really.
But I’m willing to wait and see if he might get better.
I refer you again to the reaction to the Hundley deal seven years ago — there was no BCB then, but I can tell you the reaction was almost identical — people said, “Karros & Grudzielanek? They suck, and we don’t need them.”
That turned out to be wrong.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
true, but realistically when do trades like those happen?
I want Silva to succeed, but I’m a realistic here. Just like I had the gut feeling on the day that he signed that Bradley would not do well. Many here said “well maybe he would calm down and won’t have to worry about his personaility or injuries”
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
This trade will be like the Hundley one...
Except the Mariners will be the ones looking back on it fondly.
It does.
But I think the chances of Milton Bradley being productive are a lot higher than the odds of Silva turning things around.
And I also quibble with your comparison of Silva to Karros and Grudzielanek. Karros’ ‘02 line of .271/.323/.399 was bad, but not completely horrible. His OPS+ of 96 was barely below league average. And Grudz’ ‘02 line was .271/.301/.364, with an OPS+ of 81. Again, it was bad, but for a 2B, it’s not that horrible. Consider that Mike Fontenot’s OPS+ last year was 72.
On the other hand, Silva has an ERA over 6.80 over the past couple years. That’s just horrific. It’s simply a much lower level of performance than what Karros and Grud had put out in ’02, making it a poor comparison
Silva was injured most of last year.
I’d discount that completely. If healthy, I would think he could get back to his 2007 level, where he would be a serviceable #5 starter.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Was he really injured though?
Or did the Ms just stick on the DL because he sucked so much, like the Cubs did with Aaron Miles for a good chunk of the year?
In any case, the best-case scenario for Silva is that of a #5 starter. The best-case scenario for Bradley is that of a guy who put up an OPS+ of 161 a year ago. The only thing the Cubs have going for them is that they save a reported $6 million due to the cash got from the Ms, which I guess is a pretty solid plus.
I believe the injury was legit.
It started the year before with back problems. That’s one reason they HAVE to get him to lose weight.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So the question is, was it worth it to dump Bradley?
We’ll have to see how the season plays out, I’m guessing the Cubs got the worse end of this deal.
Always loyal to Leon
by 239 Brigade on Dec 18, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
Again, I am assuming
you are just a fan with no front office experience with a Major League team so your evaluation of “not a decent return” takes into account no actual conversations with General Managers which would have led you to believe that there was another possible trade that would have netted a “decent return”
I only have to look at stats to see that this trade is crap
and you are just making broad assumptions concerning what could have happened.
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Because stats
tell the whole story right?
christ have you seen this guy pitch?
no you haven’t … mostly because he’s hurt all the damn time. his potential left with his ability to pitch 3 years ago.
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
well they did for Bradley, who besides the previous year, essentially lived up to what he had earleir accomplished
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
this gives us nothing
except it does provide Cubs trainers with one more injury-prone player to treat.
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
they were out of work when prior and woody left
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 18, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
Don't forget Harden
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
Is this revenge for the Cedeno trade?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 12:35 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
which one?
don’t disparage the guy the Pirates are building their team around.
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
I hope there are financial considerations
or prospects coming our way. Otherwise it would have made more sense to release Bradley.
I see no way Silva can possibly help the Cubs in 2010.
So what did all the BCB cry-babies think we would get for Bradley?
The second coming of Cy Young or Brian Roberts? Or Brian Roberts’ wife?
Let’s be realistic.
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
They could have kept a good hitter and not traded him… But then again. That’s the semi-intelligent way to go.
by LetsMakeADeal on Dec 18, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
magic beans, a leprechaun, a bean stalk and a path to glory
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
They didn't want anything for Bradley.
They wanted Bradley.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 18, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions