Cubs Offseason Moves to Date!!!
Let's take a look at our offseason moves thus far.
Cubs signed John Grabow to a 2yr/7.5 Million dollar deal.
Cubs traded Jake Fox and Aaron Miles to the A's for Jeff Gray and two minor-leaguers.
Cubs let Rich Harden walk.
Cubs traded Milton Bradley for Carlos Silva and 9 Million Dollars.
Several sources have us interested in Marlon Byrd and Scott Podsednik.
My take on it all....
As I see it we replaced Rich Harden with Carlos Silva. DOWNGRADE
Were gonna replace Bradley with Byrd or Pods. A wash at best!
We paid the A's to take on another mistake signing and gave them a really nice bench bat to boot for a bunch of meaningless prospects.
Were gonna have to give a bad SS a raise to somewhere around 2-3 million. For what he is talent wise, the league minimum was alright. Why not go get a Tejada or someone similar until Castro is ready? Hell even Scutaro would have been better and wouldn't have cost much more.
We still need a lot of help in the pen!
Ted Lilly may not be ready for opening day. We have Gorzo/Marshall who are at best #5 starters. Silva is no where near as good as either one of them. We don't know what were getting from Wells.
We have no bench!
Our core players have an injury history the size of Mt. Rushmore.
Can someone please tell me exactly what Jim Hendry and the Cubs are doing but getting worse by the day?
Sorry to be Captain Negative but I'm trying to make sense of this mess.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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"Were gonna replace Bradley with Byrd or Pods. A wash at best!"
Though I don’t think Byrd or Pods are what the Cubs need, but anyone is better than Bradley. Edition by subtraction.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
"Edition by subtraction "
Is that a new math text ?
( Like I have any business making fun of anyone’s typos)
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
perhaps it's meant to say
this new edition of the team. Not addition.
by portlandcubfan on Dec 18, 2009 8:37 PM CST up reply actions
Oops, my bad
Addition, math was never my strong suit
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Thanks, I get that
but I was making a joke, about addition and math. I see yours is making sentences that make sense.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Rich Harden for Carlos Silva?
Um, no. Try again, though.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
What????
we replaced Rich Harden with Carlos Silva
Wanna rethink your response?
I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
Nope.
Want to rethink yours? Have any games been played yet?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Oh come on Al.
I know you’ll cling to your defense of this MB for Silva trade like the captian of a sinking ship, but seriously? The title of the post:
Cubs Offseason Moves to Date!!!
No, no games have been played yet. Thats why “TO DATE” was in the title.
At this point we are down one Rich Harden and plus one Carlos Silva. Just because one didn’t directly lead to the other doesn’t mean that the reality of the situation isn’t this: the rotation is worse.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 19, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
As of now, perhaps.
But again, no games have been played yet.
Also, I quibble with your description of my “defense” of this trade. This trade was unique in Cubs history. MB had to be traded. What the Cubs got was really immaterial — and the fact that they got $6m of salary relief makes it at least palatable.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yes, no games have been played. This post features the words "to date" in the title.
So your objection to Harden for Silva was a bit off base. Thus far, this offseason’s changes in the rotation include two notable changes. We are now without Harden, and we are now have Silva. Its a fair analysis.
I know you believe MB had to be traded. That is why you’ll defend this trade no matter how it turns out, no matter how each of the guys involved does next year, no matter how this affects the Cubs record next year. You believe it was a requirement that MB be gone, and thus, any return is a good one.
I simply disagree. I don’t hate the trade, but i don’t believe it HAD to be done.
I do eagerly anticipate not having to hear people claim MB was the REASON the 09 team failed. That will be very welcome.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 19, 2009 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
Seriously?
So far the Cubs have signed one of the most respected hitting coaches in the game, gotten rid of several players that didn’t fit into their plans going forward and have managed to save a little cash to try to upgrade the team. So far its been a pretty successful offseason.
the problem is we haven't replaced those players with anyone yet
hence BAD OFFSEASON TO DATE
And why a 1 year contract with Harden didn’t fit into our plans is still beyond me
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 19, 2009 5:18 PM CST up reply actions
not true
Bradley is going to be replaced in RF by the guy he replaced, Kosuke Fukudome.
Harden could be replaced by one of Marshall/Gorz/Shark/Silva or the Cubs could look at a short term deal with a pitcher looking to build value like Erik Bedard.
Aaron Miles will be replaced by Andres Blanco or Darwin Barney.
Jake Fox would have played the same role as Jeff Baker, so he likely didn’t have a spot on this team to begin with.
by circuitclout on Dec 19, 2009 9:07 PM CST up reply actions
Oh Wait, is that a walnut or is the sky falling?
Come on people! We got rid of a club house cancer, made a little money on the side. Got a pitcher, maybe not a Cy Young pitcher, but you can never have enough arms. We replace David Patton with Carlos Silva. He can sit at the end of bench just as well as he did last year.
Let’s see how things shake out over the next 2 months before we declare this a bust, can we?
Happy Holidays y’all!
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
Some thoughts
a) I didn’t like the Grabow deal either. I understood why Hendry did it, but I didn’t like it.
b) Individually, all the other moves are, imo, justifiable or wins.
i) I still don’t understand why so much typing was done over Fox and Miles for Gray, Spencer Morla. Too often, we make too much of the replacement roles. We make too much of a 5th starter. We make too much of a big bench bat. We make too much of pen arms. These are useful players, but as I noted then, had the trade simply been Fox for Gray, Spencer, Morla, I would’ve been fine with it. It addressed one need (adding a power arm for the pen) while adding two very intriguing assets (Morla moreso than Spencer). As I noted, keep in mind, this isn’t the Cubs pen of old, where we trotted out several power arms. Sure, we’re hoping for a bit of development and luck with Gray, but we at least could have a role for him that’s beyond big bat off bench, spot starter. Add in the Miles savings, and I’m very pleased with that deal.
ii) The fact that Heilman was traded for someone that even has a shot at being borderline useful this year (Scott Maine) was a win in my book, no disrespect to Heilman. I’m not expecting much from White, but Maine could fit into the picture this year, depending on health and performance.
iii) In the sense that the decision had been made that having Milton would be more detrimental than not, the Milton trade is a good thing that lets the team move on. On talent, there’s no doubt the Mariners are winners. Milton adds to their focus on adding OBP this offseason. I mean … a Ichiro/Chone Figgins/Milton 1-3 could get on base so much that the rest of the lineup simply has to slap them around (okay, exaggerating a bit). Add in that we saved more money than I expected, and I’m pleased.
iv) I still believe that the Harden decision was made for financial reasons, as much as it was made for health reasons. I would’ve loved to have him back, but I am fine with that move.
c) This isn’t to say that the offseason is a “win” as of now. That said, the most important thing to keep in mind is that, amidst all these discussions about moves that we should make, should’ve made, one simple fact was always true this offseason. There weren’t many ideal fits this offseason, and it’s debatable that there was any player that could dramatically change the offense by themselves, outside of maybe Figgins. The reason I made a case all offseason that Fuld/Baker might be better than whatever we could get on the market, when all factors are considered, is partly due to said external circumstances (financial reasons), but also due to the fact that the combination of fit, talent, and need in this offseason, for where our club was currently at, was not ideal. I mean, we essentially, on the positional side, had 3 needs (CF range, top of the order bat, a guy with some pop that could protect the lower pop of the lineup)but only 2 spots to look for those fits (again, I’ll ask, when you factor everything in… is Fuld/Baker really that much worse than whatever we could end up with)?
d) None of this should imply that
i) I am throwing in the towel on 2010.
ii) That I am somehow really gung ho on 2010 and defending Hendry.
I’m not doing either. If he forks over a multi-year deal to a CF, I will be quite annoyed. With the savings he’s made on MB, if he doesn’t add a cheap arm to compete with Parisi/Gorzelanny/Samardzija/Marshall (I am noticeably leaving Silva off), I’ll be disappointed. If he doesn’t try to add some more pen help, I’ll be frustrated (would’ve said disappointed, but used that already, and variety is always nice).
Simply stating the realities as I see them. The main thing that I was always felt about this offseason and 2010 is that internal improvement was going to be the main way for this club could improve. I think people that write this club off as of right now are more frustrated with the past than the present. There simply aren’t that many clubs in the NL that scream playoff caliber right now. This isn’t to say I believe we’re a playoff caliber club, but to say that the ending hasn’t been written, and a little luck, and who knows. That said, since I am placing so much for this year’s success on a little luck, I would also be unwilling to trade key talent away right now. Hence why my statement on 2010 has repeatedly been to this core play out the string.
by toonsterwu on Dec 18, 2009 10:56 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
excellent
analysis.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
one more thing
barring a huge collapse, Ryan Theriot will be worth whatever he gets, and probably worth much more than whatever he gets. Even if you don’t believe in advanced metrics, there really isn’t anyone that much better out there that will come cheap enough to justify the a swap. And yes, for me, that includes Miguel Tejada, who is an absolute butcher at short, in my opinion (I know his UZR/150 was actually decent a year ago, but he was a butcher last year). Keep in mind one other thing about swapping out Theriot for Tejada – every team needs guys to fit a role. While I dislike the idea of Ryan Theriot as a top of the order bat, he is more of a top of the order bat than Tejada. Right now, we basically have Fukudome and Theriot as top of the order options, not ideal, but if you swap out Tejada, things get even slimmer. Heck, I ideally would like someone better than Fukudome at the top, but that’s also semi-unrealistic at this stage.
one more thing
before i got drop some salt on my driveway
the bench
Right now, it doesn’t look that bad. You have your backup catcher. Let’s go down some major roles that you typically find on a bench
a) Defensive OF replacement – Sam Fuld.
b) Pinch runner – Sam Fuld.
c) Backup corner IF – Jeff Baker.
d) Backup shortstop – Andres Blanco.
I mean, the only major need left that I see is a big bench bat, and there are two slots open. And let’s face it, bench players aren’t that expensive, so even though I have no idea who, I think, with the savings, we should be able to find someone. Sure, I don’t like the idea that we may potentially carry four guys that will see time in the middle infield (Mike Fontenot/Jeff Baker/Andres Blanco/Ryan Theriot), but if this team fails, it won’t be because of the bench.
something that should be noted
the entire 2009-2010 offseason has been largely unwinding the mistakes of 2008-2009
1. had to eradicate miles
2. had to eradicate heilman
3. had to trade bradley at all costs
4. now need a CF, would’ve had one had we not traded for Heilman
basically the entire offseason has been spent admitting last offseason was a gigantic mess
So not only did we lose out with a terrible 2008 offseason but this entire offseason has been spent trying to rid the team of those mistakes
two consecutive lost offseasons for a GM aren’t a killer, but when they’re combined with a roster that was constructed to win from 2007-2010 it IS a killer
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 19, 2009 8:38 AM CST reply actions
We'll see what happens...
… when this offseason is over.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
what do you think will change this?
we don’t seem to have a lot of roster flexibility and the focus right now is on CF… what else significant could happen that would overshadow how much the offseason has been about correcting the mistakes made in 2008?
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 19, 2009 9:05 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe Hendry will surprise us.
He seemed to think, before the winter meetings, that trades rather than signings would be the order of the day this offseason. Perhaps a CF will be acquired by trade (Brett Gardner, maybe?).
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
but filling CF
is still making up for a mistake made last offseason (trading away Pie)
that was my whole point
every move made this offseason will be a correction of the previous offseason
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 19, 2009 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
acquiring a Sam Fuld clone would somehow make this a better offseason?
you’re really reaching
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 19, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions
and that cannot be done without making moves
all off season, not in a one week window. lets relax some here on BCB (not you, but all of us) and lets see what happens. I feel that this team is not done being molded
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
i suppose
though if you believe the budget is the projected 140 we don’t have a lot of room to make additional moves, and the majority of our high priced players are untradeable or have NTC’s, so i’m not sure realistically what else of significance can be done
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 19, 2009 7:41 PM CST up reply actions
WHY DID THIS TITLE NEED THREE EXCLEMATION MARKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lame post.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
And an equally lame comment to match!
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 19, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
and so on and so on....
infinity.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 19, 2009 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry AJS...
…but this is the same post that’s been talked about numerous times before.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
No one..
Forced you to read it or post on it! Don’t like it? Pass it on by!!!
I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
Now that Bradley is gone and we have supposedly saved some money...
It’s time to do the right things to try and improve this team. Getting rid of Bradley and saving a little bit of money is a step in the right direction, no matter who we get. Even if he’s horrible, he can serve as our mop-up man/emergency starter, or we can even just release him if he’s that bad.
Yesterday Ryan Theriot said on the radio that the clubhouse was like being on pins and needles and that it would be much better now. Just getting rid of that distraction alone will hopefully loosen everyone up a little bit. It wasn’t a genius move by our GM, but like he said, it was something that had to be done. Our team isn’t better physically, probably just mentally.
Like I said, we need to improve this offense a little bit now, and signing Marlon Byrd IS NOT THE RIGHT MOVE. Let’s save $6 million, and then waste it on Byrd for several years.
We need a speedy leadoff man who can hit, and Scott Podsednik can do that. He also hit .320 last year AGAINST LEFTIES, so we wouldn’t need to platoon him with anyone. He stole 30 bases (I know that he got thrown out over 10 times, but who cares? Who’s going to steal bases other than him, Fukudome? I don’t want to hear about his defense either. He’ll catch the majority of the balls that are hit to him, so his offense and speed will make up for it. Plus, HE’S CHEAP. So enough about Marlon Byrd already.
Since we’ve saved all this money, we can also do what’s right and get DeRosa back to play second base. He could play RF in place of Fukudome against LHP with Baker playing 2B, and we would leave Baker as a spot-starter/defensive replacement where he belongs. They could then try and trade Fontenot in a package for relief pitching. DeRosa would take his place back as a clubhouse leader and resident gamer, and would bring back some more excitement to our fan base. Hendry made a giant mistake in getting rid of him, and since DeRosa is sitting around waiting on the Cardinals, now is the time to get him. If we send up our line-up as is against the Cardinals (especially once they get Holliday for a whole season), we’re never going to win this division.
This should be the line-up, based upon what is available:
Podsednik CF
Theriot SS
Lee 1B
Ramirez 3B
DeRosa 2B
Fukudome RF
Soriano LF
Soto C
It’s much better than:
Theriot SS
Fukudome RF
Lee 1B
Ramirez 3B
Soriano LF
Byrd CF
Soto C
Baker 2B
Anyone who thinks the second line-up is better shouldn’t be commenting on this board, or shouldn’t be allowed to talk about baseball before getting their head examined. When you see what the same money can buy, the first line-up makes the best sense.
Let the whining begin…
I'm not sure if you realize this
but Pods is asking for 3 years, 12 million ..
total
That was the last report I saw. I don’t think he’s worth 4 mil a year, and I wouldn’t want to give him a 3 year deal.
he might asking for that but
I don’t think any major league club is going to give him a 3 year deal
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 19, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
Well, we all know he won't get that.
He made $500,000 last year, so it won’t be much more than that. Maybe one year and a mutual option.
Here's the thing.
While your analysis is reasonable (subject to disagreement, as is any analysis here), this part of your comment is not:
Anyone who thinks the second line-up is better shouldn’t be commenting on this board, or shouldn’t be allowed to talk about baseball before getting their head examined.
That’s a clear violation of the guidelines here. If you can’t post without insulting other posters, don’t do it at all.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I also got to ask one more time
What is the fascination with DeRosa? Looked, I loved him when he was here. I did not like the trade, even if it turned out alright. But as numerous people have talked about in the last few days, no one buys DeRosa as an everyday 2nd baseman anymore, and few teams, if any, buy him as a regular third baseman. It’s the reason why most teams are looking to him as a backup (Yankees – he’d be their utility man basically). Add in that, last I checked, he was still asking for 6 million a year, and I’m not all that interested in bringing Mark back, even if we did have the money, particularly since a 3 year deal covering his age 35-38 seasons is just scary.
Way I see it, Baker is a better defensive bet, fills a similar role in his ability to move around, and is probably a better offensive player, although some will argue that there isn’t enough out there to support that (and I wouldn’t disagree with that necessarily, as the sample size isn’t big, but what I would say is that DeRosa is regressing, is at the age where regression will occur fast, and is a less patient hitter than in the past). Honestly, I simply don’t see the point of adding DeRosa unless Baker gets moved.
Be careful on being seduced by Jeff Baker
Baker is what he is. An alternatively frustrating and useful 200 at bat type of ballplayer. He is not what Mark DeRosa was or maybe still is. He just isn’t. I’m not advocating the return of DeRosa, but to pin a lot of expectation on Jeff Baker is as stupid as suggesting Mike Fontenot is a quality option in the middle infield.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Baker
Has a quality minor league track record, but was jammed in the Rockies system. This isn’t a guy without talent – he was always highly touted. In the two years that he’s had a decent number of AB’s, he’s performed as an above average offensive player at 2nd base. He also has decent enough splits to suggest that he can be more than platoon guy.
None of that means that he’s going to become a good regular, but to suggest that he can’t is a bit flawed. There’s enough reason to think that, based off current evidence, that he could be a solid regular. This isn’t a case of Mike Fontenot – I never understood why Cubs fans were so fascinated with him when all the scouting reports pointed to Todd Walker-lite. This also isn’t to say I have insane expectations – I’m not expecting a, say, .800 plus OPS guy. I do think, given a full complemnent of AB’s, that he can put up above average offensive numbers at 2nd base.
one other comment
DeRosa didn’t become DeRosa until he performed either. Furthermore, DeRosa, outside of 2008, was basically the player that Baker has been the last 2 years, but with more AB’s . It’s reasonable to assume that DeRosa’s 2008 was an outlier. I don’t expect Baker to be what he was down the stretch with us – he was quite lucky. I do think that expecting him to put up a .760-.780 OPS, add some pop to the lower half of the order, is fairly realistic. On talent alone, he’s more talented than DeRosa. With one at the end of his career, and the other entering his prime, I’ll take my chances on Baker between the two.
by toonsterwu on Dec 19, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
DING DING DING
we have a winner…REC’D!!!
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Podsednik is an AWFUL outfielder
You cannot possibly put Podsednik in centerfield, especially when he would be flanked by the worst left fielder in baseball.
Try again.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
A comment on Pods
I don’t care for Byrd either. Byrd, Fuld or Pods? I’ll take Fuld … and I might take Fuld even if they were all the same cost (that is, if money wasn’t a factor). Fuld will be a backup long term, but neither of the other two guys are appealing.
Some comments on Pods -
a) Maybe Pods will surprise and have a good year defensively … but based off evidence we know right now, there’s very little to support that. He’s always been a below average CF, and he’s a below average LF, the position he played more at last year.
b) Pods had solid enough splits last year. He had a solid enough year offensively last year. More credit to him. I can pick statistics as well … based off his 2008, well, based off his 2004 to 2008, there’s no reason to ponder him as a starter offensively.
No chance Scott Podsednik is an option
Even Genius Jim has to understand Podsednik’s significant deficiencies. Adding Pods adds to the problems of the Cubs.
I’m afraid Cubs will get Marlon Byrd. Whoopie. Like the growing majority of Cub fans I’ll just shrug my shoulders to the 2010 season and hope that a brighter day is coming in 2011 and beyond.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
2010 shapes up as an 85 loss season
Cubs are about to enter a year of limbo, waiting patiently for Tom Ricketts to finish out his “evaluation” of things and finally putting his own stamp on the strategic direction. Along with that it will be a year of a lameduck manager in the dugout and increasing chant for the Ryne Sandberg era to begin in 2011. Which who knows if Sandberg will be best qualified to lead the Cubs, but that will be the default logic of most fans regardless.
It’s going to be a strange, boring and at times ugly 2010.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
dontcha know it ruined the bench
even tho Scales had better PH numbers than Fox in less AB’s
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
As of now they are both gone
Right now our bench is
Frontinot
Blanco
Fuld if not starting, don’t have another CF at the moment
Hoff
Hill
Maybe a minor league guy like Colvin
Pretty damn scary
But keep making fun of Fox,The bench is much better now.
I know JH isn’t done yet, but that is what we have at the moment.
sure
but … if you look at what roles are typically desired on the bench, the only one we really don’t have is a big bat, and we have some loose change now to try and address that. I mean, we have a defensive OF replacement (Fuld), a pinch runner (Fuld), a defensive infielder (Blanco), corner IF backup (BAker – who will probably see some time in the corner OF). Now, I’d love to dump Mike Fontenot and add 2 more pieces to the bench, but if he can simply find a big bat on the bench, it’ll be a decent bench on paper.
Also, on Fox, I have had some questions about how effective he would’ve been off the bench. The report coming up was that he can lose his swing at times. He needs regular AB’s to be effective. That said, that’s somewhat besides the point, which is that, while it won’t be a great bench (although … what team has a great bench? I guess the Yankees, if they sign DeRosa as their utility guy … but I can’t think of many teams with great benches) , if they can find a decent power bat off the bench, it’ll be alright.
The big bat off the bench also bothers me.
I agree about Fox.
That was one of the problems with not playing Fox when they could. He had early success as a PH then it went down. But not playing for 3 weeks was stupid.
But it does not matter now. Who are the pieces you would like to see?Aubrey Huff comes to mind. It would be nice to have someone who can hit a HR off the bench if needed.
Honestly
I haven’t contemplated it all that much. At the right price, Huff would be alright, but he’d likely be only a first base backup if he had to play. I’d like to either get a guy that can play OF and minimize the need to shift Jeff Baker out there too much. Someone brought up Jonny Gomes – that sounds intriguing. If Oakland wanted to deal Scott Hairston, I’d have interest. But in all honesty, haven’t pondered it that much. I think another guy for the pen and perhaps another rotation competitor should rank higher up on the needs chart.
im making fun of your over bearing love for Fox
and how you continue to think he is more than he is. My point about Scales vs Fox is true, Scales hit more HRs as a PH in less ABs than Fox did. So you cannot say Fox was a power bat off the bench.
I have not said that the bench is strong, it has holes, but that is why we have, what, six weeks or so before ST to sort these things out and also why we have ST to allow everything to sort itself out.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Fox was not a power bat off the bench????????
Because Scales hit more PH Hr’s?
Wow you are a fool.
I would like to ask all here, whether you liked Fox or not, did you consider him a power guy?
If you had to have a HR hit, would you rather send Fox up ther or Scales?
The more you talk the dumber you sound. Please keep going !!!!!!!
Maybe you are just pissy because you are in mourning still from the loss of your favorite player Bradley. He is going to be missed so much by all of us!
With his sunny nature and AWESOME stats I know I will miss him.
Maybe Santa will bring you a Bradley Mariners jersey for Christmas and make you feel just a bit better!
Facts.
Jake Fox was 5-for-24 as a pinch-hitter in 2009. Of those five hits, two were doubles. He drew two walks and struck out nine times. Triple-slash: .208/.300/.292.
Bobby Scales was 7-for-14 as a pinch-hitter in 2009. Of those seven hits, two were doubles, one was a triple, two were home runs. He walked once and struck out once. Triple-slash: .500/.533/1.214.
Given those numbers — and yes, they are both fairly small-sample-size — I know who my choice would be to send up to pinch-hit between those two, and it isn’t close.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Al----He is saying Fox is not a power bat, Do you agree with him?
I never said Scales didn’t have better stats off the bench. Fox was much better playing everyday like most players.
I wonder why Scales was let go considering how good he was off the bench. He can play the IF and lou liked him in the OF for some reason.
Did he opt to become a free agent or was he taken off the 40 man roster by the Cubs?
I am saying he is a bad bench bat
you continue to not understand what I say. Scales outperformed him off the bench, and hit for more power. Does that mean Fox cannot hit BP pitching a mile, no it means that in game situations, when a hit is needed most, Scales did better than Fox. Nothing hard to understand. The facts given more than once to you abck up that statement.
I do not care how much power Fox has when the catcher is holding the ball because he whiffed (9k’s in 24 Ab’s as a PH is HORRIBLE wouldnt you agree?).
Fox is not a piece of the Cubs from 2009 we will miss. As a bat bench he failed, and he was not going to start as a Cub, so being moved to Oakland was a blessing for him, and I wish him well.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Fox was not a good PH-I know, Scales was better, I knew this long before you came along.
But you can’t even answer the 500 AB question because it would prove me right.
I said 500 AB’s not batting practice.
first you said bat bench
now you say power in 500 AB’s. Sad thing is I believe Fox wont get 500 AB’s and will be sent to AAA before June.
Sure Fox has more pwoer, that is not what we were debating, until you were proven wrong about the bat bench discussion.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
You were the one who brought up this issue...
… and specifically said “off the bench”.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I was talking about potential power.
I guess I should have included that word.
I figured people would understand that Fox had more power going forword. It took 3 tries for Tim too admit that.
I am well aware in their small sample size Scales did a much better job PH. I have nothing vs Scales, In fact I was surprised he was gone. If used correctly, which Lou didn’t do, I would have wanted him back. BECAUSE of his ability to PH.
i never argued that Scales has more power over all
and we were debating about bench players, which is PHing situations, and Fox failed at that, and didnt have the power you boast about in that role.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
It doesn't help when...
Fox sits on the bench for a week without batting, even as a pinch hitter. You have to admit that his at bats were far and in between towards the end of the season. You can’t stay fresh when you bat once on a Monday, sit on the bench Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, and then pinch hit on a Saturday. It happened a lot during the end of the year, and he hardly ever started, which Scales did constantly. I’m sure that helped his numbers a little bit.
Where does your hatred for Fox come from? The guy didn’t do anything but play hard, but that bothers you for some reason.
Nobody said that Scales was a bad pinch hitter. We have been saying that there was no reason for him to play daily, out of position, instead of Fox. The A’s seem pretty excited to get him, and I don’t see people banging down Scales’ door to sign him (he’s a free agent).
and you cannot play someone who is not hitting
when the position he is used as is to PH. Lou was trying to win games still, and if Fox was not helping win games, he sits, Not a hard thing to understand.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
oops what is this i read
Fox was his favorite player But he has started calling him a good bench player now in posts. That is true. He was a good bench player, I am not sure who they have now besides Hoff who might park one of the bench.
Is he Pujos. Nope. But he is right, Fox leaving did weaken the bench.
by TJ11 on Dec 16, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
from here
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
FYI this is only one of many
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
It did weaken the bench. It more than pinch hitting.
He plays lots of positions, Can be a 3rd catcher even. Has some power. So until JH does something to improve things, he did weaken the bench.
Al gave you the same information we have given you before
about how not good Fox was off the bench, maybe this time you will read them.
I have told you many times I supported a Cub named MB since I cheer for the name on the front of the jersey not the back. He is gone, and I wish him well, nothing more.
Maybe this time you will understand and stop making incorrect statements
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I understand all the time
You change things as you go.
I said, a n d t r y to r e a d t h i s s l o w l y, who do you think is most likely to hit a HR when a HR is really needed. Like maybe the bottom of the 9th inning. Not always a PH situation…. I am pretty sure Fox has more power than Scales.
Now if you think Scales has more power then you enjoy that opinion.
I feel so frightened when you make your words bold like that. You sure showed me!!!!!
you (and others) continue to talk about Fox
as a bat bench. That means PH situations, and based on the stats, which are the facts of this argument, Fox is not a good bench bat.
Power means nothing if the ball is in the catchers mit, not a hard concept. A power out is not different than a weak grounder, since both result in an out. So the point of a good bench bat is to make contact and see what happens, something Scales and Reed Johnson both did better than Fox, and both had less AB’s than Fox doing so. So Fox had more opportunity and made less of them. That is why I continue to try and explain that you are wrong based on the plain adn simple facts alone.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
And I am asking if you think one has more power than the other. This is not hard to do.
If both were given 500 AB’s, and neither one ever should, who would have more HR?
Fox would K more, but I don’t think Scales would be far behind.
You're talking about two different things.
With 500 AB — sure, Jake Fox would hit more HR than Bobby Scales, probably far more.
But we are talking about them as PH. Pinch-hitting is a specialized skill. Some people are better at it than others. Last year, Scales was far better than Fox — so yes, as a PH, I would rather have Scales.
This is all moot. Neither one of those players will be on the 2010 Cubs.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
the argument you started with
was that Fox weas a good bat off the bench, now it is about power. you are changing your argument now that you have been proven wrong time and time again about his bat off the bench.
I never said Fox had less pwoer, just that he was not outperformed off the bench in all areas, power included, by Scales.
Which are you wanting to argue next? You went from Fox being a better PH to now wanting to argue Power. as I said before, a long out means nothing. And dont try and say he was a nicer guy than Scales, as both have a history of being nice guys, and sadly being nice guys does not mean we will be winning games (nor does being a jerk ala MB).
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
We've said a million times
That Fox should have been playing LF immediately after Soriano went down. There was NO reason why Scales played out there every day, out of position. Since he’s such a great bench-role player, that is where he should have been played.
The Cubs were 6 games out with a month to go, and they seemingly waived the white flag. It is inexcusable.
the argument was about bench player
not who should start in LF
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
in the same thread you say that he was not good off the bench
you also say
Fox was not a power bat off the bench???? Because Scales hit more PH Hr’s?
Wow you are a fool.
I would like to ask all here, whether you liked Fox or not, did you consider him a power guy?
If you had to have a HR hit, would you rather send Fox up ther or Scales?
by TJ11 on Dec 20, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
He probably already had the Bradley jersey made...
and wrapped it up for himself to open up on Christmas to make his day.
do you read anything I say about MB
I wanted him to succeed since he was a Cub, he no longer is, so best of luck to him. I do not care about him anymore. I am not in love with him as you are with Fox.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I wouldn't go that far
We have just enough to be pretenders but not enough to be TRUE contenders. Right now I’m gonna guess 82-80 or somewhere close. If the Cards resign Holliday their gonna be about 5-6 games better. The Brewers will be somewhere between those 2. Again all of this is as of right now.
I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
Will the Cubs sign Capps?
Maybe, but the Nationals are also in the mix. I don’t think he’ll sign with them though, cause he said he wants to play with winners. Sorry Nats fans.
by braziliancubsfan on Dec 22, 2009 12:06 AM CST reply actions





















