Cubs trade Bradley for: Chemistry.
I may be in the minority on this site, but I really like the makeup of the current Chicago Cubs team now that Bradley is gone. Before you accuse me of drinking the Kool Aid -- consider two years ago when we won 97 games and had a very solid team -- Hendry's biggest crime is not retaining 90% of that team and filling the very small holes that we had. Instead, he added Gregg, Heilman, Miles and Bradley and basically went 0 for 4, shaking up the chemistry of a team that had a great cohesive nature and a great team "personality." They were fun to watch. You always felt like they had a chance to win.
I'd be ecstatic if in April, Our lineup was:
Fuld, Fuku, Lee, Aram, Soriano, Soto, Theriot, Fontenot, Z
That lineup has great power in the middle, guys who can set the table, and top shelf defense in the key positions -- center, 2nd, 3rd and short. Soriano is the weak point defensively, but who doesn't have a weak point?
i read this site on a regular basis and am tired of the Soriano and Fukodome bashers -- two guys who at their best put up great numbers and have a huge impact. Soriano was hurt all last year. he just wasn't right and everyone knows that. And Fukudome had another solid campaign. He isn't supposed to do it all -- he just what he does very solidly (great defense, hit for a little power, take a walk and put the ball in play.) Lee and Ramirez are very solid. A lot of teams in our division would love to have both of them. Again, we were hampered last year by Ramirez's injury. Soriano can come back this year and be huge -- the bigger question is if Soto can. Who knows? He's our starting catcher and I'm fine with that.
The pitching, I think, is solid too. Z, Demps, Lilly, Wells and Marshall are all solid. Each has teh capability of going out and pitching lights out. And now with Marmol as full time closer and getting a fresh start, we should be good there. if there is anything we need, in my opinion, is a solid setup man -- hopefully Hendry won't screw that up.
Now all we need to do is stop trying to fill holes with free agents and start having more faith in guys like Sam Fuld, Starlin Castro, Andres Blanco and other young guys who may be challenging to watch at times as they learn the pro game but bring a great exuberance to the clubhouse that I believe is an absolute necessity when building a championship team. I believe now, we have chemistry again.
Thanks for listening. I feel better now.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Wow you must be drinking
Top shelf defense at 2nd and SS. I guess I must be watching a different team.
I never drink Kool Aid .......
but in honor of this day I’m having it with a dbl vodka….yes its blue
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 18, 2009 8:28 PM CST up reply actions
this is what i hate about this site
if you don’t agree, show me stats. Ryan Theriot is a really great player. Tough as nails. Gives 110%. He had 15 errors last year — not eh best int he league but i still think he’s great for what he brings to this team.
everything
if i were a major league player, id give it 150%, but itd still suck
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 18, 2009 10:38 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think he gets it
I give up. It is the argument that scrappy players are by definition better.
well
for one, you cannot give more than 100%. You can exceed expectations, but that’s not more than 100%, it’s simply that 100% is more than people thought it was.
Not that Ryan Theriot does much exceeding of expectations. He is always very willing to dive for a ball that remains just out of reach, tho.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
Ask Soriano.
But make sure to give him 24 hours notice.
"I have the time and hatred but not the knowledge." ~Madison Cub Fan (Aug. 25, 2009)
He's a mediocre defender.
The last 2 years, he was 9th among qualified shortstops in UZR/150.
Top flight he’s not. But he’s not awful.
Errors don't tell the whole story.
Riot doesn’t log errors for the plays he’s so far away from, he can’t bobble the ball. He’s got limited range and a weak arm.
And Fontenot pretty clearly showed he’s not an every-day player last year.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
What stat shows Theriot is a really great player?
Can you find even one? Guess what … posts like yours are what a lot of others here hate about this site.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 19, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
I feel better too..........
…..I was reading Lookout Landing posts for what they had to say about THE trade and they were chuckling “what an optomistic bunch” about us over here on BCB. Maybe this thread will have our thoughts on the positive aspects of the team we have. Remember thoughts are opinions not necessarily facts.
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
exactly
we spend a lot of time on this site talking about what’s wrong and not about what’s right. We have a team capable of winning a lot of games.
no team is perfect ....
I like our guys…..I loved 08 when the players we didnt expect much from came out of nowhere and did something wonderful. It seemed like it was a different guy each game. What is wrong with expecting the guys that had a bad year last year to come back with a good year. Why is that unreasonable?
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 18, 2009 9:00 PM CST up reply actions
Nothing wrong with that.
Its just that those guys in ‘08 (and many of the same ones in ’07) collapsed when they reached the playoffs. Even if we DO expect that they’ll return to career averages, we have no indication that those averages have what it takes to survive the first round of the playoffs.
This is why i get annoyed when people lament the “dismantling” of the ‘08 team. That team was fun, sure… from April – August it was a blast. Come September, things weren’t so great, and trying the same thing over and over while getting the same results is crazy.
Hopefully, returns to career averages get the Cubs back in to the playoffs. Its not unreasonable to expect that. It does seem a stretch to believe this team is good for much more than a division championship and a failed playoff run (crap shoot that they are) though, and i hope for something greater than that at some point.
More moves need to be made, even though i too agree that these guys are likable.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 19, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
Am I wrong in thinking....
that what a team needs to get to WS is a Perfect Storm scenario…..well-balanced talent, luck that is interspersed thru-out the season and post season, a manager with “chess-like” skills and good club house chemistry. How many WS teams in the last 2 decades were statistically perfect….and I dont mean Pojols perfect, I dont think the 05 White Sox were.
p.s. this is a real question, not a smart-alecky remark.
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 19, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
Don't need a perfect storm to win the division
But in the playoffs, they would need Zambrano to connect with his inner Roger Clemens and Lilly to be inhabited by the spirit of Sandy Koufax.
The team does not need to fix what is right now does it?
So logically most discussion will center on what is wrong. Got it?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 19, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
I get that, really I do,
but I guess it’s starting to seem like everything is wrong.
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 19, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
It's the Cubs we're talking about
what did you expect?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 19, 2009 6:48 PM CST up reply actions
Oh and for the record
I was responding to cedarpip’s post (“we spend a lot of time on this site talking about what’s wrong and not about what’s right. We have a team capable of winning a lot of games.”), not yours.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 19, 2009 6:50 PM CST up reply actions
sorry, my bad
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 19, 2009 6:56 PM CST up reply actions
Clearly
the Cubs dumped Bradley on someone who would take him. They did it because of the clubhouse. I’m sure the clubhouse will be better with Bradley gone—what remains to be seen is whether that makes any difference on the field. We lost a potentially terrific bat and gained a potentially terrible pitcher. That’s going to be a lot of production that “chemistry” is going to have to make up for.
I suspect a healthy Aramis Ramirez will add a lot more for the team “chemistry” than losing Milton Bradly would add.
Fuld and Blanco are reserves at best. Starlin Castro is a potential star, but he won’t be ready in April.
We still need a center fielder—I assume Marlon Byrd is the favorite here. He’s OK—as long as we don’t sign him to a Bradley like contract, he’s a decent pickup. And personally, I’d like to see Mike Fontenot gone. I don’t think he’s good enough a player to start anymore. But that means finding a stopgap second baseman until Starlin Castro is ready to move Theriot over to second base.
Jeff Baker could play a competent 2B...
… with Fontenot backing him up. I wouldn’t have a problem with that.
I’d also like to see the Cubs look into a Ryan Church/Reed Johnson platoon in CF.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's all we'd need
Because everyone thinks Castro will be ready by 2011. He might even be ready by midseason, although that might be pushing it. Then Theriot can move over to second where his range won’t be such a liability, at least until HJ Lee is ready in a perfect world.
The other option is that Darwin Barney might be a decent stopgap at a middle infield position, and if he does OK, then his trade value would go way up.
by Josh Timmers on Dec 18, 2009 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
Except Theriot's bat would make him one of the worst offensive 2B's
whereas Baker might continue to grow. I, for one, am hoping we don’t just hand Theriot the keys to second base (and a handful of millions of dollars to go with it).
Wasn't Fontenot supposed to be our 2nd baseman last year?
And now baker is our stopgap because Fonty couldn’t hack it? When do we stop plugging holes with toilet paper and actually start using a large budget to improve the team?
We have Ramirez and Lee as position players who we can can realistically hope will produce at a consistently good level next year. Everyone else is either overpaid or trying to fill a role they are not equipped to do.
We are so use to fooling ourselves in to having faith in the fontenot’s, theriot’s, murton’s etc. of the world that we start to overvalue these players. This is probably the root of the uproar over Fox.
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
I don't disagree
but you can’t solve everything with money. The Cubs have one of the top payrolls. They have been trying to improve the team with a large budget.
The Cubs problem is that they need to develop a few All-Star caliber players of their own so they get cheap production. You can’t build a winner with just money.
I'm not saying that we can solve everything with money
I’m saying we have a lot of money and should be using it more wisely instead of chasing after shiny objects. We have a large budget relative to the rest of the league. There is no reason that we can’t do with a large budget what other teams do with a smaller budget.
Our budget gives us an immediate competitive advantage that we seem to constantly bungle. It’s very frustrating and after awhile the whole we’re trying doesn’t cut it. Obviously the effort is there, but how is that effort being applied and is there any intelligence behind the plan? Is there even a plan? Please tell me it’s not spend spend hoping to continuously keep stop gapping holes.
Those All-Star caliber players would be paid money out of the budget. The budget doesn’t just include the big money guys with the big club. If we can develop enough young talent in the areas we are lacking then why aren’t we trying to use our money to bring in younger talent. Why do we always seem to have players on our roster who either make too much that we can do anything with them, end up losing guys because we can’t afford to pay them, or miss out on players because we can offer up enough to get them?
As far as some players on the team are concerned there’s a difference between loyalty and respect for a player and keeping a player on the team when trading said player could bring a better benefit to the team. I can’t think of any player on the team outside of Ramirez maybe, who I would feel sad about losing. That’s mainly because I’m a Cubs’ fan not a so and so fan. I root for the guys on the team, I appreciate and respect their efforts, but at the end of the day if the team can be made better by trading that player or not resigning that player than that is what should be done.
And obviously you can’t build a winner with just money, but as Boston and New York has shown it is possible to spend that money wisely to achieve success. I know there are other components to the their success, but again as popular as the Cubs are and as much money that we have had at our disposal, there should be better direction/directing of the club.
We always seem to be responding to something instead of following a plan and making decisions accordingly to that plan. I was for keeping Bradley if trading him meant taking crap back, obviously the money we will receive will mask the smell a bit and if we can use that money wisely then this trade won’t be as bad.
My problem is, where was the contingency plan for Bradley? Everyone knew his history, and from what I remember (can’t find the article) Bradley initially refused to talk with the media. The team didn’t like it and ordered him to do so. My question is why? You know Bradley is a headcase and is more a child than a professional. I’m not advocating treating every player with kid gloves, but you signed the guy and you knew he had issues. Why do anything that is going to set him off? Not because he should be babied but because it’s pretty obvious how he would respond and you have millions tied up in him.
Also if the situation in the clubhouse was as bad as some of us would have others believe, why was there no plan to cut our losses and try to get out from under the Bradley mess before it became front page news (Bradley’s insults/comments and suspension). It just feels like brass had no clue Bradley was a nut and were taken by surprise when he started throwing poo all over the walls. They then responded too late and with in my opinion a poor response the outcome of that is Silva, $6million, and we still don’t have that magical left handed bat, nor do we have a CF, etc.
Sorry so long and ranty but damn I’m trying hard to figure out what we (or club if you don’t like the use of we, us) have as a plan to win a world series and not just compete in the Central. Oh, besides the big left handed bat that will. along with scrappy mcgrit the sparkplug, finally deliver the Cubs to the promise land.
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
by Villeslgr on Dec 19, 2009 9:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Damn
That was even longer than I remembered. Sorry again.
One baseball game, he came to the plate and heard a woman in the crowd shout to the pitcher, "I'll make you a chocolate cake if you strike out that 'so-and-so'!" Says Strong: "I hit that ball out of the park. Then I looked at her like, 'Do I get a cake now?' "
a johnson/church platoon
has too many missed games in it to be a worthwhile platoon
at this point i think you have to bring someone in who has proven to be healthy over their career
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 19, 2009 8:34 AM CST up reply actions
How do you figure that?
A platoon is designed to minimize that issue (missed games). Plus, Sam Fuld could start the games those two miss.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
because
those guys can’t stay healthy in the platoon roles, that’s been the case the past few years
so investing in TWO guys to have that platoon that ultimately lands us back with Fuld playing alot, isn’t strong financial sense
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 19, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
OK, then...
… what about Brett Gardner to platoon with Johnson?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
the problem with gardner
is we have to trade someone to get him…
i know it comes off as negative to every possible solution, but i really don’t think there’s one that makes us much better. For me whomever they can get to fill the role the cheapest with the least amount of years is fine. All the options are going to cost a decent amount to make us very marginally better it better at all
at this point i just want someone who’s cheap with a 1 year deal
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 19, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
How much would it take to get Gardner?
A couple of prospects?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
i don't know
but at this point, i’m of the opinion deluding the farm system in anyway is simply making us weaker for our next run
but again… i’m not a believer that there is a move we can make to make us legitimate world series contenders in 2010
just my perspective
if gardner was viewed as a long-term replacement in CF i think i’d feel differently but i don’t think he’s that type of player
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 19, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think he is, either.
But Brett Jackson might be, and Gardner could be a couple-year stopgap, along with Reed Johnson, until Jackson is ready.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
i agree that's his value
i just don’t think depleting depth in our system is worth a stop-gap when we’re not a contender (again my own opinion on whether we’re a real contender or not)
We already did some of this with the Grabow trade (though if Gorzelanny can be a solid 4th-5th starter for the next few years that would be well worth it)
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 19, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
What do you think it would take to get Gardner?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
really not sure
my guess is the yankees still view him as pretty important because of the pinch running value he brings late in games + defense, I’d think he’d cost more in terms of prospects than melky because of service time and arb figures being lower as well
i’m not sure… maybe a flaherty type?
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 19, 2009 7:37 PM CST up reply actions
Problem is the Yankees aren't the kind of team
that trades for prospects. I suspect they would want a more major league player. Perhaps someone for the pen. Guzman and then use the Bradley savings to get Capps?
not necessarily
they’re not going to take a guy on the ML roster they don’t feel is better than what they already have
Guzman would be someone they’d be interested in but outside of him who do we have on our ML roster they’d be interested in?
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 19, 2009 10:07 PM CST up reply actions
i don't know about that...
I mean i’d rather have Guzman than Gardner given our team needs, but he’s not more valuable than Gardner in a vacuum
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=2145&position=P#value
Guzman’s been a 0.1 WAR player 3 of his last 4 years and topped out at 0.6 WAR
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9927&position=OF#value
Gardner’s been worth 2.1 WAR and 1.1 WAR over the last two years
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 20, 2009 9:13 AM CST up reply actions
Understood.
Didn’t realize Gardner had been that good. I like his potential.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
its mainly the difference
between position players and middle relievers, middle relievers generally have a tough time being very valuable because they impact so few innings of a season
its one of the reason teams shouldn’t overpay for middle relief, something the Cubs have been victims of for years
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 20, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
Compared to the Cardinals
Your lineup isn’t that bad. Every year the Cards throw guys like Schumaker and Ryan out there, and they do just fine. Those guys seem to set tables and get the odd clutch hit. I’m sure our “little guys” can do the same.
The Cubs season will depend, as is the case most of the time, on the health of our solid front four in the rotation, and guys like Soriano and Soto reverting back to 2008 numbers.
If those things happen, and I realize they are fairly sizeable ifs, then there’s no reason this team can’t compete.
Getting rid of Gregg and Heilman in the pen, and a full year of Grabow, won’t hurt either.
One or two more pieces and they’ll be fine. Besides, look on the bright side, Carlos Silva can take the load off our BP tossers! :)
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Dec 18, 2009 9:55 PM CST reply actions
Fukudome
This is also his third year in Chicago. If he’s every gonna figure it out and hit a serviceable .280 or so, then this would be the year. He could also be a pretty big factor in 2010.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Dec 18, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions
We still have a pretty solid core group of guys.
The key, more than anything, is now adding a CF, and then focusing on keeping the team healthy. I don’t like to hear about injuries during the season as a reason a team is not winning. Baseball is a game where you have to win with the guys you have. If that sounds oversimplified, maybe it is, but every team starts the season with 25 guys. If a guy gets injured, you can call a guy up from Triple-A, or make a trade, but you begin each game with 25 players, and you just hope that each day, the 25 players you have are good enough to win today.
Having said that, when you look at 2009 from the offseason’s perspective, it’s not an excuse but a fact that we played our regular lineup in less than 10 games out of 162. D-Lee was awesome. Aramis was great, as always, when he was healthy, but he missed two months, and we didn’t have DeRosa to cover for him. Soriano had a bad year. Soto had a bad year. Zambrano had a bad year. Dempster fell way off from his ‘08 numbers. DeRosa was gone. Kerry Wood was gone. Kevin Gregg was our closer and he sucked. Marmol had an up and down year, until he was made closer, then he was, I think, 13 for 13. Theriot was pretty good. Fukudome was pretty much the same as ’08. Honestly, when you look at all that, my real question is, how in the hell did we finish second and with a winning record, with that much of a dropoff from 2008? I don’t know.
I guess the positive is, since we know that Soriano, Soto, Lee, Ramirez, Theriot, Fukudome, Zambrano, Dempster, Lilly, and Marmol are all good players, you have to ask yourself, if they stay healthy, is there any reason why they can’t compete in 2010? The guys I mentioned represent 6 out of 8 position players, and 60% of our starting rotation. And Jeff Baker is a serviceable, if not great, second baseman. The key is, are they healthy? Lilly is a question mark in the beginning. But aside from that, the players I mentioned above are a quality group of players, and based on the fact that there is no WBC in 2010, there is no reason why they should not be healthy. Our farm system also seems to be gradually getting better each year, to the point where we can actually look there for some legitimate future options. Now, we still need a CF, another veteran bullpen arm, and some help on the bench. But when you examine our situation from top to bottom, there is no need to feel like the sky is falling. Let’s see what the next two months bring, and what the roster looks like in February.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
anyone want to buy MB Cub jerseys for cheap?
i mean CHEEEEAAAAAAAPPPPPP
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
What size?
I have a friend with the last name of Bradley. No, seriously. I know one of the few people in the world who might actually want the thing.
I anxiously await the reasonable trading of Milton Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 19, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
They also traded him for 5Million
Seattle sent Chicago 9 Million total in compensation. It wouldn’t surprise me if those dollars are left alone for now. You never know, having a little payroll flexibility in July could go a long way in the trade deadline!
too late
for granderson or cameron. byrd seems average.i would rather have reed out there.
top flight defense?
it seems to me the only place we have above average defense in our infield is first base. in my opinion, most of the infield is below average.
I'd rather the Cubs had traded Bradley for physics
Bat meets ball at high velocity, distance traveled determined by F=1/2 M * V-squared.
Or, baseball released with spin, dips out of the way of bat.
Since when
has Fukudome ever put up “great numbers” as you say. Also, Theriot sucks as a defensive SS; everyone and their mother(s) already know this.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - final words of Dexter season 4

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