Let's Bag the Byrd and go to Church
by ClarkFan44 on Dec 19, 2009 11:14 AM CST
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Now that the Milton Bradley era is over in Chicago and the waters have started to calm a little bit, let's move on from the whole fiasco and look ahead at the future of our Cubbies. Clearly the main focus at this point for Jim Hendry and Lou Piniella is center field. With Mike Cameron no longer available (and whom Lou and the Cubs really wanted) there are still some players out there who could help the Cubs in center field and the outfield overall.
At this point, with Bradley out of the picture and after looking over the free agent outfielders still available, I think the overall best option for the Cubs is to sign outfielders Marlon Byrd and Ryan Church. Personally, I'd love to see this happen and think it would help the Cubs both offensively and defensively.
But the question is, can it be done? And well, I'm not sure, I don't know if the team has the money to sign Byrd to a multi year contract and sign Church and still go for a guy like Matt Capps. But if they could, I'm all for it. I like a starting outfield of Soriano, Byrd and Fukudome with Fuld and Church as the number four and five guys.
Let's take a look at Byrd and Church and some other options for the outfield.
Marlon Byrd - Had a solid 2008 with 70 runs, 10 HR and 53 RBI to go with a .298 average. Had a very good 2009 with 20 HR and 89 RBI and is probably the best CF still on the market. Byrd is a career .279 hitter, but if you look at a three year sample from 2007-2009, when he was a starter, you get a better picture of what the guy can do. Over that span he has averaged 65 runs, 13 HR, and 70 RBI to go with a .296 BA. Those are not Curtis Granderson like mind blowing stats, but I will take it out of an everyday centerfielder. The real question is how much money does he want? He made just over 3 million in 2008. Oh yeah, he also has a .986 fielding percentage.
Ryan Church - The other guy I like. Nothing in this guys stats is going to wow you. He's a career .272 hitter, not too shabby, but not too great either. However, when given the chance I think he can be a very servicable reserve outfielder. He had a solid 2007 knocking 15 HR and 70 RBI in regular AB's and still hit 12 HR and 49 RBI and hit .276 in just over 300 AB's in 2008. Last season was kind of a wash going from the Mets to the Braves and battling injuries, but still produced 46 runs and 40 RBI in part time play for both teams. The catch: he made 2.8 million last year, but with not alot of teams showing interest, he could probably be had for a great deal. The other catch - in six years of major league service he has a .992 fielding percentage - yeah that's only 8 errors in his entire career.
And the others ...
Coco Crisp - I say the Cubs even looking at this guy is probably a waste. He's a great fielder and has great speed, but offensively he doesn't bring alot to the team. He had decent years in 2007 and 2008, but did not do much in 2009 in limited playing time. He strikes out alot, his stolen bases are down and only has a career .331 OBP, not overly great for a CF/speed type of player. And he made over 6 million last year - crazy money for his production.
Rick Ankiel - A feel good story for sure, but struggled in 2009 after a great 2008 where he smacked 25 HR and 71 RBI. Last year in 372 AB he only hit 11 HR and 38 RBI and struck out 99 times to go with a .231 average. I just say pass on Ankiel. He might have the power still in there somewhere, but also in three years in the outfield - none full time - he has 15 errors. And he's a Scott Boras client as well, so he'll be pushing for the biggest contract possible.
Scott Podsednik - Apparently the Cubs are really high on Podsednik (via MLB trade rumors ... I think) and I don't really know why. He'll be 34 this season despite a decent .277 average he offers nothing offensively. Despite a resurgent 2009 season, where he did hit .304 and compile 48 RBI and 30 SB, overall he has not been good since 2004-2005. The last five seasons he has averaged a .270 BA, 3 HR, 29 RBI and 61 K's, to go with a solid 30 SB (really an inflated stat due to 2005 and last year). He can still play the field, so maybe the Cubs think they can get him on the cheap.
Reed Johnson - As a Cubs fan, I love Reed Johnson and I'd love to see him come back. I love his 2008 season where he hit .303 with 21 doubles and 50 RBI. However, he just turned 33 and has back issues. If he is back as a fifth outfielder to go with Fuld or Church or whomever, I'm down with it. He has a .991 career fielding percentage, I just don't know if he's my top choice. He would certainly have to take a pay cut from last year's $3 million paycheck.
The Dark Horse's - Jonny Gomes. We know he has the power, so would I take him as a reserve despite the career .241 average. Yeah I still would. He's 29 and could improve on defense still. Rocco Baldelli. A career .279 hitter and had a solid 2006 when healthy, hitting 16 HR and 57 RBI. If he's healthy he might be worth the shot.
I think those are the main names the Cubs are looking at, or should explore, but there might be some I missed or maybe a few more I think would be worth checking out ... so ... I think Byrd and Church presents are best option. What do you say? I'll throw in the poll to see your thoughts. GO CUBBIES!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Couple quick thoughts
a) I think, barring some outrageous demand from Marlon Byrd, that we’ll be hearing about his signing in the next week or so. Rudy J wants him, the Cubs have cleared some financial space, and it is at a position of need. The best news yesterday, on this front, was that Marlon was looking for 2 years. I’m deathly (okay not exactly the right word) worried that we’ll give him some sort of 3 year deal (unlikely it’s guaranteed, but I worry about some sort of option). I can stomach 2. Our best CF bets in the system are at least 2 years away.
b) I’d rather pass on Church. I don’t know what happened to his power, and I’m not sure I want to pay to find out when I am fine with Sam Fuld and Tyler Colvin as backup OF options, and perhaps rotating Jeff Baker out to the corners if need be. Right now, I see the bench as Hill/Fontenot/Blanco/Fuld. I’d rather not have 4 middle infielders again, but right now, it looks like Fontenot will be there in his role from 2008. If so, I’d rather go on the market and try and find a guy with a bit more pop. I have no idea who right now, having not checked what’s remaining in FA, but a guy like Jonny Gomes would be nice. I don’t want to spend too much, though, because
c) Besides Byrd, I’d still prioritize a pen arm and another rotation competitor before big bench bat. Others may feel differently about it, which I can understand. I have doubts we can land Capps. Washington’s offering their closer’s job at a fairly solid AAV. He would be nice, though. There’s still some decent pen arms out there.
d) Random aside, I guess the Yankees duo have to be contemplated as options … but it looks like Melky Cabrera is headed to LF with Brett Gardner as a primary backup, so I imagine they’d need something good to pull the deal, and I abhor the idea of dealing for Melky, and dislike the idea of dealing for Brett.
Allow me a second for a ridiculous and unlikely thought, particularly since Byrd looks all but certain.
e) The Red Sox are rumored to be investigating Adrian Gonzalez again. One of Olney’s sources suggested the other day that the Padres needed Casey Kelly and Ryan Westmoreland. I find that to be unlikely. Current rumors focus on Buchholz and Ellsbury, which is probably unlikely as well because Ellsbury is near arb. That said, in a “let me think about a positive situation that I can come up with in my mind” scenario, I’d be curious if there’s a way we could facilitate an AGon to Boston trade by swapping something for Ellsbury that San Diego may want.
That said, I’m expecting Byrd to land soon.
I'd be interested in Ellsbury
I think it would be a long shot, but it’s worth checking out. If we can help Boston send a guy or two to SD and get Ellsbury, that would be better than any FA’s currently available. Then we get great defense, high OBP, and a lot of steals to set the table for Lee and Aram. It probably wouldn’t hurt Fukudome hitting behind him either. Ellsbury, while a long shot, it way better than the other options people here are suggesting.
by portlandcubfan on Dec 19, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
I really don't expect it to happen
partly because it seems we are set on Byrd, and partly because the Red Sox have loads of OF talent they could substitute in (Ryan Kalish, Josh Reddick, Che-Hsuan Lin)
crap, snow's killing my ability to type
I meant the 2nd part to ssay I’m not a big fan of Ellsbury either … dunno why I typed ideal
What about Gerardo Parra?
The D’backs have too many OFs – could you deal with Parra in CF for two years? Buy him being as good a bat as one of the Yankee duo?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I don't think they are going to move Parra
Everything seems to suggest that Byrnes is high on Parra.
screw the byrd
i want the hawk
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 19, 2009 12:20 PM CST reply actions
I'm ROFL :D
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 19, 2009 8:49 PM CST up reply actions
in fact if we get him and he sucks, I'd like a t-shirt please.
A woman's guess is more accurate than a man's certainty.--Rudyard Kipling
by cooliogirl47 on Dec 19, 2009 8:50 PM CST up reply actions
How about Brett Gardner?
You could probably trade a prospect or two for him and have a minimum-wage platoon partner. Then sign Reed Johnson to platoon for him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Why do you think Reed is a better platoon option than Fuld?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Well, if you get Gardner...
… you’ve got a LH hitter to go along with the RH Johnson.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Fuld has backwards splits.
So, you can keep a LH in the lineup while platooning.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Fuld has backwards splits, yes. But in limited time.
You would think this would change given more playing time. I wouldn’t be counting on that staying that way.
They're backwards in the minors, too
for the past two years.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
and it was said with more playing time Fontenot would thrive
what happened?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
i guess the limited time comparision means nothing
you are correct again……………(rolls eyes)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Frontinot had many more ab's at that point
When they decided to give him the starting spot. Pay Attention to some facts…
neither are starter material, thats my entire point
no shocker you cannot understand such a thing.
and regarding facts, you continue to dismiss them about your man-crush Fox, who was not as good as you continue to talk (example, Scales was a better PH than Fox, and the stat line was given to you which you kindly pulled a BLou and “missed”). You should be his agent, mauybe you can get him the blockbuster contract NO TEAM will ever offer him,.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I think you are mixing me up with the Grinch.
But whatever…..
You always change what you mean mid-thread.
Who knows what you mean. All you say is pretty much garbage anyways.
funny
the one who disregards facts says another who provides facts is garbage (rolls eyes)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I guess Gardner is one I forgot about!
I didn’t check his stats, but I would say he is definitely a solid option. He could platoon in CF and be a solid backup at any of the OF spots, providing a day off for Soriano or Fukudome
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I like gardner
I wonder if the Yanks wll be asking for high-caliber prospects for him.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
I think they'll ask for good value
but I don’t think they’d be foolish enough to demand high caliber prospects. That said, I think Melky going to left means they will likely hold Gardner as a backup OF and pinch runner, unless a good deal comes along.
They may not be interested in moving Gardner
He is cheap and he gives Girardi some real flexibility off the bench with his speed. And the Yankees have never been keen to give up major league players for prospects – that just isn’t their MO.
I would actually guess that if they sign another outfielder, Cabrera goes on the block.
Would Baker interest them?
Baker can play the corners, maybe even platoon with Cano – perhaps better depth for them than Gardner/Melky?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
the thing is
Brett also holds value to them as a pinch runner.
I bet they'd like to deal Swisher, if any OFer is to be moved
They already have Jerry Hairston, who plays all those infield positions, so I am not sure they would take Baker for Gardner, although the Yanks were rumored to be interested in DeRosa.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Dec 19, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions
hairstons a FA
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 19, 2009 6:52 PM CST up reply actions
Coco Crisp
I know he’s not the best hitter but I think we’ve all seen some of his spectacular plays on web-gems.
Just out of curiosity, do you guys think his defense would save us more runs than adding adding a guy with a little bit of power who can produce runs? We do have some fly-ball pitchers so you got to have a strong defender in the outfield.
Personally, I wish we’d just sign Reed Johnson again. He’s a great clubhouse guy and the fans really liked him.
They could do worse, especially if they give Byrd 3 years
I don’t follow the Royals (does anyone?), so I don’t know why Crisp’s 2009 time was so limited. If he has recovered from whatever it is, his defense is good, OBP history is not bad, and he brings some speed to a pretty slow line-up.
crisp has a career .331 OBP
thats bad
Say no to Marlon Byrd, Scotty Pods, and Rick Ankiel.
by jesus christos on Dec 19, 2009 6:54 PM CST up reply actions
OK, but Byrd is only .340 and Johnson is .344
We’re not talking about Tris Speaker with any of these options. The Cubs need a MLB experienced CF with + fielding that they can plug in and play. Offense would be a bonus. And if Fuld outplays said experienced CF and grabs the job, fine. But I think it is unwise to pland for Fuld as option #1.
Lots of negativity about Byrd on BCB
I think could be a pretty good player for us. His home vs. road splits aren’t nothing alarming, he has hit above .285 on the road the last two years. The power drops a bit, but thats to be expected. If its a reasonable two year deal I think he is clearly a better option then any others suggested in this poll.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
I'm with you.
Byrd isn’t the ideal option, but he’ll work. Assuming we stay healthy, we don’t have power outage. Byrd plays a pretty good outfield and if the price is right, then I say go for it. I’m thinking 2 years $12 M would be okay. He’s got a pretty good reputation.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I also wonder if Oakland
could part with one of Ryan Sweeney or Rajai Davis.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I really like Davis
Numbers may not lie, but they don’t tell the whole truth (and nothing but the truth), either. -- Doug Glanville
Hmmm ...
I know Davis has speed and I remember liking Sweeney at one point, but isn’t he injury prone??
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The Cubs have inquired about Davis before.
It’s possible Hendry might ask again.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think
if they move anyone, it’ll be Scott Hairston (who actually wouldn’t be a bad idea as a depth OF with some pop if he was available). that said, I think they keep michael Taylor in the minors a bit more
Byrd is the best that is left out there for what is affordable.
People got to realize that we need to just go after Marlon Byrd. And with what we got left I would go for Capps instead of Church. The Cubs don’t have pockets like the Yankees or the Red Sox do…….
I would say that Byrd and Capps is the best case scenario
If we land Byrd – which I think we will – we might not have the $$ that Capps wants, plus he wants to be a closer, an offer he is getting from other teams
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On Capps, if we are going to the bone yard for pitchers they need to be cheap
He wasn’t so good last year. Unless there are clear reasons that was temporary, he won’t be cheap enough.
All of the aforementioned options are awful
Might as well let Sam Fuld, Tyler Colvin and any other bargain basement pickup see what they can do.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
hey we agree
Well, not on Colvin. Don’t want Colvin in there. But that’s been my point all offseason – it isn’t that Fuld is great, it’s that the other options aren’t, and when you factor in the money, might as well see what Fuld can do, since he could potentially kill two needs for you (top of the order bat with his ability to walk and run the bases, and improved CF range).
I definitely agree on letting him be the 4th OF
I think he could thrive as a late inning replacement for defense/baserunning … but i think I feel better as Byrd as the everyday guy … but hey i could be wrong!
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I don't mind Byrd
that much from an offensive talent perspective, although that likely means Byrd or Theriot is at the top of the order, neither of which is appealing. I think he’s better than his pre-Rangers days, and I have no expectations of .800+ OPS with him. What I don’t like is
a) The potential for a multi-year deal … I can stomach 2, though.
b) His average, at best, defensive abilities in CF. There’s a part of me that honestly would take Crisp at 1 year 3 or 4 mil, whatever the number is, and know that we are getting better OF defense, considering, as noted Byrd shouldn’t hit at the top of the order anyways.
by toonsterwu on Dec 19, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
I would rather take a 1-year on Crisp.
IMO, Byrd would be just another mistake. I would only go with 1 year on him with a club option at the most.
I'm wondering if a better risk than Crisp - who's health problems may not be over -
is Randy Winn. See what Rudy J. can do with Winn, who of all these options at least has it in him to get that OPS over .800 if you can rehabilitate him. Winn’s downside is that he’s done; otherwise, he projects like Crisp with less defense – but Crisp’s defense hasn’t been consistent anyway…
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Fair comparison.
Winn is 5 years older.
Regardless… with any of these guys you’re rolling the dice anyway.
It's basically a bunch of options that can give you variations on a .740 OPS
with some able to reach up to .775 in a good year, and all of them risking a fringy .700 in bad years.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Risking repeating myself
(as some do here), a platoon of Fuld and Johnson would give us energy and passion — both sorely lacking last year, don’t you think?
Numbers may not lie, but they don’t tell the whole truth (and nothing but the truth), either. -- Doug Glanville
I agree, we need passion and energy ...
But do you think that can translate to enough production on offense? say compared to Byrd? I think we could sign Byrd and then I’d be ok with Fuld and Johnson as the OF reserves, they both bring the energy and passion you mention and could still a good present as primarily bench players
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If we sign Byrd,
I really don’t anticipate Johnson coming back unless he takes a mil or so.
Plus, there is still a need to platoon with Fukudome in RF
So the 4th OF will get a lot of playing time even without injuries/rest days. And Soriano may get some seat time against RHP unless he improves against them. My guess is that even if the Cubs sign a nominal CF, Fuld and Johnson find themselves with a lot of PAs.
I'm guessing
that you’ll see Jeff Baker get some time in RF.
There could be a fair number of games up for grab at the corner OF positions
And several guys had better bring OF glove to spring training.
Last year we followed a similar strategy - seeking "fire."
and we got burned… just sayin’…
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
can we bring back MB
I am sure he has pissed off people in Sea by now and would be available in a trade
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
We can get him if we send enough money to cover the 3rd year of his contract.
I hear Jim Hendry is high on this deal and thinks Bradley’s behavior issues are behind him.
CF Defense
UZR/150 from fangraphs – career –
Gardner 27.6
R.Davis 12.0
Crisp 5.8
Sweeney 3.0
Byrd 0.0
R.Winn -1.3
Church -3.5
Podsednik -5.6
M.Cabrera -5.9
Ankiel -9.4
Swisher -9.5
Ellsbury -10.6
R.Johnson -14.8
Fukudome -20.3
Fuld -38.2* (incredibly small sample)
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
And for those wishing for Ellsbury
please take note. He may be fast but he is not a good outfielder. From what I understand, he doesn’t run very good routes.
don't get me wrong
i wasn’t wishing for ellsbury. i just think he would be, on paper, a better option than some of those that are currently being discussed, bu there is very little chance of it happening.
Question -
“On paper” is Ellsbury really a better option than Gardner, given what they each would cost?
BJproections:
JE .302/.362/.420 .82 SB%
BG .277/.368/.375 .82 SB%
I’m really warming to Gardner. Good D, Good baserunning, OBP for the top of the lineup, cheap in $$$ terms…
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
the key would be "given what they each would cost"
I can make a decent guess at it, but it’d be a guess.
Let me just comment on the two for a second:
Jacoby Ellsbury – Some Red Sox fans overrate him (someone on Sickels claimed he was an icon … someone else said he had superstar potential). That said, he is an intriguing youngster for justifiable reasons. I don’t think, defensively, that he’s as bad as his UZR said he was this year. I also don’t think he is as good as he was 2 years ago. BAsically, I think he’s an average CF, with good range but is prone to occasional bad reads and bad routes. I think he has an average arm. In his defense, that park isn’t the easiest to play defensively, IMO, despite claims otherwise. Offensively, Red Sox fans are right when they argue he has a bit more power potential. He has to “unlock” it first, though. He’ll take some walks, but where he was good this year was in not striking out as much.
As noted above, I’m not the biggest Ellsbury fan. I’m intrigued, but I wouldn’t sell out for him.
Brett Gardner – I believe advanced metrics to be overstating Gardner’s abilities here, defensively that is. I mean, I don’t think anyone has any illusions about what he is offensively. He’s basically, well, basically a young Scott Podsednik. He needs some luck to become an above average offensive player. He’ll take more wlaks than Jacoby, but he’ll also strike out more. He isn’t reaching often.
On defense – I think UZR/150 has overstated his abilities. He’s a solid defensive player, due to his range. That said, I think the arm score is overstated. Watching him play, going to Yankees games, talking to Yankees fans, talking to others, somethings are quite clear about Gardner. I have no idea how he got such a high arm score. He has an average, maybe below average arm. Is it accurate? Well, it’s not scattershot, but I wouldn’t call it a highly accurate arm. What Gardner does is to take advantage of his range. Watch some Yankees games where he comes in and you’ll see him often cheating in, knowing that any deep fly ball, and he won’t be able to gun anyone out anyways. Can he continue to get away with that? While he’s young, perhaps, particularly if he can improve his arm accuracy.
This isn’t to badmouth Gardner. He’s a decent enough player, solid defensively (but I don’t believe he is otherworldly) and if Hendry went after him, I’m alright with it (as noted, not sure the Yankees move him, since he’s the primary backup/pinch runner as of now). He would fill needs at the top of the order and improving CF defense. If the price is right, I could live with it. I would be a bit disappointed because, well, we have a similar player in our laps. Fuld and GArdner were compared to each other while coming up. Fuld’s lost some speed through the years, but I believe he has more than enough range for CF, and he has a much better arm than Gardner. I believe Fuld has a tiny bit more pop than Gardner, but I don’t have any illusions there, both guys will need some luck to be above average offensive players . I believe Fuld will be a bit more disciplined than Gardner. Gardner has more speed, but Fuld can run the bases.
The biggest difference between the two, IMO, is that Gardner has gotten an opportunity whereas Fuld hasn’t. To me, it seems like such a waste of resources to not give Fuld a shot if Gardner is the option. That said, I’d be alright with Gardner.
by toonsterwu on Dec 19, 2009 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
couple more comments
one thing to watch on Fuld is his speed/range. In his younger days, he probably had close to plus speed. Injuries and age have sapped him of that, but he is still an above average base runner. The question is … how fast will he lose his speed, and with it, his range? That said, I’m not arguing for Fuld as a long term answer.
Part of the reason I am alright with Byrd is because I think Fuld will get more PT with Byrd than with other options.
I have no illusions on either guy – Brett or Sam. I don’t think either guy is a multi-year answer as a starter. They are in the Juan Pierre/Scott Podsednik molds – guys who might have an occasional surprise offensive year (such as Pods in 2009) and be deserving of starting for that year.
I think that the position I'm coming around to
is that I’d go for Gardner if the cost was Jeff Baker or a young ‘pen arm Lou doesn’t like, but if I can get Byrd on a two-year deal, I think a Byrd/Fuld reverse-split platoon is awfully cool.
If we’ve traded Baker, we can always go get Fernando Tatis to backup Rami and platoon with Dome, and spend the money we’d have spent on Byrd on whichever 2B is left standing.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I can't see
the Yankees needing a young pen arm unless it’s a setup caliber arm. Their pen, on the whole, is fairly young. I also wouldn’t fork over Jeff Baker for Brett Gardner. I do think they might have some interest in that, provided they could find themselves a pinch runner off the bench, but I wouldn’t do that. I mean, I’d rather overpay and get Byrd (and utilize Fuld/Baker) than go out, get Gardner, pay for a 2nd baseman.
Agreed ...
I would hate to see Baker go. He came along rather nicely for us at the plate and he just has to much versatility. If (god forbid) Ramirez were to get hurt again this year, or Fontenot get injured, I like having Baker as a Cub.
I have also really warmed up to the idea of Gardner or even Melky, but not at the cost of Baker. I agree the idea of keeping Baker and a Byrd/Fuld split would be a good option.
The Colts are going 16-0. It is going to happen.
cam we ask to use 10 fielders
and play with 4 OFers?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
When Ted Lilly pitches
he could run out to CF and help cover the ground between Ankiel and Sori.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
But no one hits the ball to the outfield when Lilly pitches unless he wants them to
And with Soriano and Ankiel he wouldn’t want that.
No one would make contact vs Ted Lilly
you should know that
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Thanks for the link.
Worth clicking.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
You are very welcome!
But truly, I wouldn’t mind seeing them explore Rajai Davis or Ryan Sweeney. With Crisp near a deal with the A’s and him being seen as the starting CF, it leaves the A’s with a lot of people competing for a job in the OF. Both seem to have bright futures and with the necessity of a lead off man and a CF.. Davis fits. The down side (if there is one) is the fact he is a righty compare to Sweeney who is a truly southpaw. Gardner would be a thought, but as the article said “for the right price”.. being the Yanks… who knows about that statement. And Melky is more of a middle lineup than leadoff hitter.
I know the Cubs have asked about Rajai Davis before.
He’d have to put up numbers like last year’s to be worth anything. His career before last year was pretty “meh”.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
As I mentioned above ...
I think he has good potential, but is injury prone
The Colts are going 16-0. It is going to happen.
Sweeney would be fine, but I doubt the A's will trade him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm glad Cameron is off the board
He’s essentially Soriano with better defence. Can’t, after all this time in the league, hit a major league curve or slider.
Red Sox overpaid in both years and cash for him.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Dec 19, 2009 10:16 PM CST reply actions
Oh, and - Rec'd -
This is what I like to see in a fanpost – thoroughness, creativty, a poll, and a title that made me laugh. Well done, CF44!
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
THANK YOU!
Saturday morning my wife was out getting her hair done … so I was like Yes! time to devour stats and do a fanpost!
I’m glad you liked it! and thanks for all the comments!
The Colts are going 16-0. It is going to happen.
it was a great post, and i thank you for it
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
would love
baldelli but could he stay healthy. worth a shot if cheap enough. the rays equivalint of mark prior. if you are planning a platoon gomes would also be nice.this guy is a gamer.when the rays were in the playoffs and series this guy never played but was there every step of the way cheering his teamates on. how many players wouyld have been crying about not geting in the games. dont think the cubs are interested in either. c,mon lou step up.
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