Spending wisely for short & long-term critical pitching and throwing needs

The time to teach it would not be to major league pitchers in the course of a major league season. He would have value developing a plan for training and coaching minor league pitchers, but then they’d have to be willing to change what they’ve learned that got them drafted. There are various reasons for the inertia that stifles innovation in any industry. In baseball, it’s one key reason is the high turnover of personnel.

First of all I will not nor do I choose to debate here or anywhere else the facts of the superiority and effectiveness of Dr. Marshall’s pitching methodology.

This will “prove out” with the real data that emerges, perhaps, not in my lifetime, nor Doc Marshall’s (ala Galileo and many great thinkers who were quite a bit ahead of their “times”).

I heartily disagree about the “best” time lines to teach this to prove effectiveness at the MLB level.

Doc already did this with his own career and his Cy Young award – first ever given to a reliever!

Yes, a bottom up overhaul of the Cubs entire system would yield tremendous benefits, but the logistics, and strategic planning needed to get this started (“planted”) also needs to be seriously considered.

When science wants to “build a better mousetrap” – an experiment, experimental design, and research methodology are first thoroughly and strategically planned, then reviewed again before proceeding with even one trial of one phase of the experiment.

What I was proposing in my post, was simply try a “Mini-experiment” with a Veteran pitcher, whom many people already have playing “left-out” while he collects his big bucks for doing “nothing,” and others say ‘just release him outright’, again with his salary being paid for doing nothing.

Doc Marshal instead could be working with Carlos Silva, (instead of doing nothing) and perhaps rehab his pitching to the point of having him effective, or at least more valuable to gain interest from other teams for a more viable trade.

Personally, I would love to give Doc this opportunity to prove what he can do, and let the Cubs new ownership get a “taste” of how a scientific-approach to pain-free effective pitching should be high on their list of systemic changes.

If by “one key reason is the high turnover of personnel”, you are referring to the turnstile-approach to pitchers in any organization, I could not agree more strongly!

Imagine, as Doc envisions, starting with younger kids, teaching them the basics correctly from the start, and having this follow their development into the minor and major league “systems.”

The highly expensive cost, monetarily and in pain and suffering, not to mention emotional/psychological traumas of “lost” careers and dreams, could be turned around into huge cost savings in every aspect!

Doc refers to his good friend and former teammate, Tommy John, not as “famous”, because of his surgery, rather “infamous!”

Please take the time to read the Jeff Passan article – IMHO one of the best I have read on the web or in mainstream media!

…but since its so quiet on this thread, and if you have time, I thought I’d ask a question that comes to my mind as I read the above and understood as much as I could with my limited knowledge of BB. First to me it does sound like its ground-breaking stuff, it sounds generational tho…like the youngsters coming up thru the ranks would benefit more? As a mom I would want to keep my child to be as injury free as I could, so it appeals to me on that level instatly. For an older MLB player, I would have to wonder if a guy like Silva, say, tries that type of training and say he didn’t get it, wouldn’t that jeapordise the way he throws now? Now remember its me your talking too…..“limited knowledg of…..”. :)

With young kids of your own, I would highly recommend thoroughly perusing Doc’s website, especially where he offers (for free) to analyze x-ray film of any youngster’s right and left arms. Doc will tell you what the developmental age of their growth plates are, compared to biological age. This determines how frequently and “hard” throwing of a baseball would be recommended and why.

You can write, phone, or email Doc with your questions. Best wishes with your kids’ fun and development!

One of my medical specialists asked me to locate a baseball pitching “tutor” for her son. I told her that I could locate several “traditional” coaches/tutors; however, I would not endorse their methodology or instruction. However, I could also recommend that she and her husband do the same thing I just recommended to you – peruse Doc’s site, and even email or call him if they had further questions.

On my next medical appointment, I asked what happened with the coaching pitching lessons. My specialist said that her husband (also a medical doctor) took my advise, and pulled their son from formal little league, and will follow Doc Marshall’s recommendations involving pitching and young kids!

No predictions about the “acceptance” of Carlos Silva or any veteran pitcher would have for a new approach to pitching; however, hitting and pitching coaches do “makeovers” on unsuccessful players, when the players are struggling, and need to “turn it around” during, before, and after official seasons.

The very little that I have read or know about Carlos Silva indicates that he is a highly competitive “fiery” type of player who wants to contribute and win.

Not playing (when he still believes he should and could contribute) would likely place him in a motivational state to gain acceptance to at least trying to work with something new.

Once meeting Doc Marshall, a veteran like Silva could easily relate and respect Doc’s tremendous genuine baseball knowledge and skills. The hard work that follows would be shaped gradually with daily positive feedback, encouragement, and genuine scientific daily measurement.

Doc Marshall has the scientific training, knowledge, and skills to accompany his first-hand expertise in baseball pitching experience to accurately diagnose and recommend a personalized instructional rehab plan for any pitcher who wants to compete more effectively. MLB has largely “conspired” to keep his methods, players, and knowledge out of the mainstream of MLB.

Big cat (lions and tigers) circus trainers historically passed down their “teaching secrets” as generational from great grandfather to current son. The training was “effective” as long as the trainer maintained teaching fear and submission behavior to the animal via the aversive painful “crack of the whip!” The problem with training via aversive consequences, punishment, and negative reinforcement is that counter-control (aversive) variables develop with this form of animal learning. Conter control will always put the trainer or any other human in jeopardy when the whip is not present.

The tragedy of this archaic form of “teaching” is that a newer modern technology of teaching that is scientifically, positive-based has been available for over thirty years.

“Clickertraining” established by Karen Pryor and her associates has accomplished amazing results through positive reinforcement and shaping with a variety of animals worldwide, and is now applied successfully with people training world-class gymnasts (as one example) using TGATeach (same scientific principles applied with people).

My comparison of Doc and Galileo is apropos as it is with other more modern world-class scientists that I have known and learned from in my career: B.F.Skinner; Zig Englemann; Ogden Lindsley; Arthur Whimbey. All these great forward thinking leaders developed and promoted a scientific approach to more effectively help people learn, and all were largely rejected by the prevailing “wisdom” and ignorance of the controlling authorities in education and psychology.

All great people who are far ahead of their time are typically met with great resistance, ridicule, and “shunning” at worst. This tends to motivate and create greater determination to succeed, and “prove” their position as worthwhile.

How sad that all too often it is only long after their death that honors and acceptance is bestowed. Largely, because many of their contemporary and vocal detractors too are no longer present to “stand in their way.”

Doc also promotes the “radical” idea that young children playing baseball should largely have fun, and enjoy the game. He cites a published study that indicates that most children would prefer to play a “less organized, non-competitive” game in favor of not keeping score and getting many more opportunities to be at bat, and hitting the ball! Oh, and BTW, the pitcher would be an adult who pitches to both sides! Imagine teaching young kids to play baseball just for the fun of the game!

Just for the fun of adding one more comment to the reply, Doc developed most of his methodology by using himself as a single subject research project during his career. He kept data on every pitch he ever threw! Following his baseball career, and subsequent earned PhD at Michigan State, he continued to develop and refine his methodology of pitching and instruction. He even used Newtonian physics to determine the ideal trajectory that a ball must take to the plate to include in his pitching methodology.

Nothing “scientifically revolutionary” about that!

Galileo would be a fan!

“Someday…”

Marshall is not a world class scientist, he is a pitching coach. Comparing him to Galileo is hyperbole. Get a grip.

Give it a rest now!

You obviously have nothing but vitriolic comments and thinking about my comparisons (which you never comprehended correctly), and equally obviously have never taken the time to study Doc Marshall’s website, contributions, or life of Galileo.

Ironic and contradictory quote that you select from Earl Warren, when you choose to attack comparisons of any great thinkers – past or present! But that is exactly what I would expect from a “close-minded” totally negative shallow attack such as yours!

People will not always agree with you, especially when you make ridiculous comparisons as you continue to do here. Try forgoing hyperbole next time and maybe your arguments will be more persuasive.

Merry Christmas and Peace in the New Year!

My first Christmas wish for you is to get a literary education, to “openmindedly” visit all of Dr. Marshall’s website while truly reading and comprehending the totality of his major scientific discoveries.

My second Christmas wish for you is to gain some tolerance and patience with people who hold differing opinions while asking for clarification before you “jump-in” with “both of your feet firmly stuck in your mouth.”

My third Christmas wish for you is to “openmindedly” visit all of Dr. Marshall’s website while truly (scientifically) reading and comprehending the totality of his major scientific discoveries.

My fourth Christmas wish for you is to actually visit and discuss live with Doc and his protégés, and then return to your comments here (hopefully a bit more scientifically and data enlightened)!

My fifth Christmas wish for you involves gaining a more accurate and effective literary education, especially in the understanding and use of terms of speech.

In that effort, I offer you a start with several accepted definitions of the term “hyperbole” (which is NOT defined as “Lying” or “untruths”):

1. noun – exaggeration for effect and not meant to be taken literally (Ex: He’s as strong as an ox.) (From: Your Dictionary.com & Webster’s New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2009 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Cleveland, Ohio.
Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc.)

2. n. A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton. (From: Answers.com)

3. n. A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.
3a. hyperbole
1. an obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as "She’s as big as a house." Cf. litotes. — hyperbolic, adj.
3. See also: Rhetoric and Rhetorical Devices
4. Noun1.hyperbole – extravagant exaggeration
exaggeration, figure of speech, trope, image, figure – language used in a figurative or nonliteral sense
5. noun exaggeration, hype (informal), overstatement, enlargement, magnification, amplification The debate was carried on with increasing rhetorical hyperbole.
Collins Thesaurus of the English Language – Complete and Unabridged 2nd Edition. 2002 © HarperCollins Publishers 1995, 2002

Looks like you accepted my gifts!

Spelling defintely is improving – now keep working on your grammar and politeness!

As for rebuttals, I need not address anything that you bring to the table – you still have no idea of the substantive content and issues that I raise here.

My talents and skills are many, but I will not share them all dealing further with your lack of content knowledge.

Have a great New Year!

“Someday…”