Burrell-For-Bradley Rumor Rears Its Head Again
This time, it comes via Joel Sherman at the New York Post, a source sometimes reputable, sometimes not (hat tip to MLBTR for the link). Sherman writes:
I hear that a trade of Tampa Bay’s Pat Burrell for the Cubs’ Milton Bradley is still a strong possibility. Burrell is due $9 million next year while Bradley has two years at $21 million left. Bradley also makes $9 million next year, so the sticking point is how much of the 2011 $12 million contract the Cubs are willing to absorb to complete a trade. My hunch is that the Cubs would have to eat at least half and make that a $6 million contract for the Rays in 2011.
Financially, this would be a reasonable outcome for the Cubs. The $9 million for this year is a sunk cost; I assume payroll planning included paying that amount to someone, whether it be Bradley, another player, or eating Bradley's deal. Splitting the contract for 2011 makes the "effective" cost to the Cubs $6 million. However, as we have discussed here, Burrell is pretty useless to the Cubs -- he'd be a disaster in right field, and would almost certainly have to be flipped back to another AL team where he could DH. The DH market is pretty saturated, though. Sherman continues:
If the Cubs go through with this trade they are looking at two poor left fielders who both swing righty – Burrell and Alfonso Soriano – on the roster. So this is totally my speculation, but I wonder if the Cubs would then do a trade built around Burrell for Luis Castillo. It is hard to find a baseball official who actually thinks the Mets are going to land either Jason Bay or Matt Holliday in free agency, yet the Mets still want to add power to left field. Burrell is a woeful fielder, but he has some power plus removing Castillo would allow the Mets to hunt some additional power at second base.
First, I'm glad a sportswriter actually puts the words "this is totally my speculation" in print -- sometimes you'll read an article saying something like this and assume it comes from a team source. This time, it's simply a NY sportswriter making something up. I haven't been in favor of Castillo in the past and I'd rather not see this deal. Castillo's speed has been declining -- his 20 SB last year were his fewest in a full season (not counting 2005, when he missed 40 games due to injury), and though he does get on base at a reasonable clip (.387 OBA in 2009), he has almost no power -- his .346 SLG was the sixth-lowest of anyone who qualified for the 2009 batting title. He did rank at 1.6 WAR in 2009 according to Fangraphs.
Burrell or Castillo? Neither is a real good option, but I'd like to see the Bradley deal done before the winter meetings, so Jim Hendry could actually address the real needs of this team next week in Indianapolis.
Discuss.
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Here we go again - I'll just be glad when he is gone...
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
Don't forget the scary rumor cubstraderumors posted this morning
Of the Cubs wanting to sign Ankiel.
Just the thought makes me want to vomit all over my keyboard.
Chicagoan in the Lou.
Never mind, I found it.
I’m not even going to link to it. That site is 100% non-credible.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
My hope is it's just an idiot that's full of crap
But it’s not like the Cubs haven’t been quick to swoop in and take St. Louis’ sloppy seconds in the past…
Chicagoan in the Lou.
None whatsoever.
But if you read through the archives, he’s posted many, many “rumors” that were not seen anywhere else nor did they ever happen.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
kinda like deep goat?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 4, 2009 12:31 AM CST up reply actions
Deep Goat is a happy goat...
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
Oh, brother. Not this crap again
Yeah, Al makes stuff up so people flock to the blog and he gets $0.10 more/week. A lot of the things that he’s posted HAS happened. For example, he suggested that a change was imminent last season – the day that Perry was fired.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2009 8:59 AM CST up reply actions
Watched MLB hot stove last night
and Verducci listed the Cubs as a possible spot for Ankiel. Now where he got that info. who knows.
Ankiel's fielding numbers
look exactly like Sam Fuld’s. The only difference is Fuld is a patient leadoff hitter while Ankiel runs into the occasional homer inbetween strikeouts.
They might as well have Zambrano pull double duty, its the same thing as signing Ankiel
Still Miles away from being Aaron free.
Thanks.
I just did vomit all over my keyboard. j/k
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 3, 2009 1:27 AM CST up reply actions
I just don't see
any team wanting Burrell either. Seems like we’re just pushing money around.
As much as it pains me to say, I’d almost rather keep Bradley or just eat the salary.
I still wish we could do something for Rowand.
In a recent live chat...
…Bruce Levine mentioned that perhaps the Cubs could flip Burrell to the Giants for Rowand. But the idea seems fairly preposterous. I believe AT&T is a pitcher’s park, so Burrell’s defensive shortcomings would be even more exposed – even in left field.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
yea
like Al stated, you’d have to assume he’d have to go to another AL team in need of a DH.
Does anyone know of any AL teams in need of a DH?
by AGC on Dec 2, 2009 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
None really come to my mind, but I don't follow the AL all that closely.
What makes this whole situation worse is there are apparently a lot of DHs on the market.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Too bad the NL doesn't have the DH rule!
Maybe it is time for the NL to switch over to the DH, and then guys like Burrell, Dunn, Jake Fox etc. would be more valuable to more teams.
The AL has way too much advantage here when it comes to offense.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Dec 2, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions
The NL may well get the DH rule...
… after the next round of labor negotiations. Expect it to be a bargaining chip. A lot of NL GM’s are sick of seeing their pitchers hurt running the bases (Zambrano & Peavy, good examples).
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
that
would suck. It would no longer be baseball.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 2, 2009 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
I don't like the DH either.
But I think it’s coming… just wanted to warn people to get ready for it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm curious...
…would the NL incorporating the DH rule make Soriano’s contract a little easier to swallow?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
sure...
…as long as the low and outside curve ball/slider is eliminated as part of the labor negotiations. Then I think we’re golden!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Well, I was thinking...
…it would at least open up his position in left field and allow the Cubs to do something there. From one perspective, even ARod’s 10-year deal with the Yankees seems crazy. But they can at least move him to first base eventually and then DH.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
How will they move him to 1B....
… with a younger player (Teixeira) already there on a contract almost as long?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Oh right...forgot about Tex.
OK, well, they can still make him a DH then.
Philosophically, I’m not really in favor of the DH. But it seems like this is another advantage to it: Teams can move aging but good-hitting players into the role and open up their position to younger guys. Of course, this is all assuming Soriano will ever be “good-hitting” again. Geez, I hope so.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Vera does not approve of the DH rule

Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
by eths on Dec 2, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec...
Because Firefly was a fantastic show. (And also b/c I hate the DH).
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 3, 2009 12:05 AM CST up reply actions
Any over the hill hitter, with pop left in his bat but no wheels is DH
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
Exactly!
that way you can “hide” your poor-fielding but good-hitting veteran in the lineup and maximize his good points while hiding his bad points.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Dec 2, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
Boston Red Sox, maybe.
David Ortiz did seem to struggle a bit for most of the year.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 3, 2009 1:29 AM CST up reply actions
The Giants actually make some sense...
Don’t forget that Burrell is a 1B by trade — he moved to LF because of some guy named Thome. The Giants are looking for CIF power, and Panda can play either spot.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
So if the Castillo thing happened...
…the Cubs would have him for two seasons, correct? His Rotoworld page says he’s signed for $6 million in ‘10 and ’11. That makes the prospect of this deal a little less enticing. I could live with Castillo for one season, but two? Well, I suppose it wouldn’t be the worst way out of the Milton mess. At least Castillo brings something – OBP – to the table.
By the way, according to a fairly reputable Rays blogger, Tampa Bay’s management is still refusing to give on the amount of money they’ll take on in the deal:
RaysIndex Burrell for Bradley: #Rays want all the money. #Cubs trying to be creative. Rays will not budge. May be close but not so close.
Take it for what it’s worth.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Castillo might be tradable after one year....
… if he puts up decent enough numbers.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I saw him a bunch when he played for the Twins.
He was above average. A solid player with good fundamentals. I’d want that player. Apparently, he has declined during his Mets tenure and all I see when I think of his name is that dropped flyball this summer vs. the Yankees.
Yeah, I guess $6 million...
…isn’t that much. And maybe the Cubs could lower it further by eating some.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
What are the Cubs going to do with Castillo?
Flip him? Play him over Baker/Theriot/Fontenot/Miles (I just made myself sad writing those names)? I just don’t see the usefulness of Castillo in this team.
However, I’d take a rotten banana and a booger on my stocking for [name redacted].
Like I said...
… this is an imperfect deal and I wouldn’t really want Castillo either.
However, I agree with you re: your trade wants.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
he's a lot more useful than Burrell
If we get Castillo, he’ll be the starting second baseman and leadoff hitter. He’s a switch-hitter with a pretty good OBP. With Theriot at short, that means Castillo supplants Fontenot (meh), Miles (meh to the nth degree) and Baker — who’s probably the team’s supersub anyway.
Given the team’s need to get rid of Bradley, I’d be happy with Castillo returning. He’s not great, but he could address some team needs.
I agree, if we end up with Castillo out of this then so be it. Fontenot could be non-tendered
and Baker could be the super sub off the bench and Miles could hit the road, hopefully. Castillo isn’t ideal obviously, but he’s probably the best we can do from what I can tell.
Agreed.
Castillo’s OBP has been above league average since 1999 – graph. Lou could put him at the top of the order with Kosuke and let him do his thing. There’s a lot not to like about him, but it’s probably best we all accentuate the positive in this unfortunate situation.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Spot on.
Aside from the “addition by subtraction” of Bradley, frankly I see Castillo as an improvement over our existing 2B options.
I’m not sure playing for the Mets has served any player well over the past few seasons, so a change of scenery might enhance Castillo’s performance. Regardless, his OBP and SB numbers would be welcomed at the top of the Cubs’ line up.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
Exactly!
Granderson fills the CF need but we still need someone at the top of the order
Castillo fills that need. He may not be getting 50 stolen bases a year but he’s still a threat and pitchers still have to watch out for him. I’d be happy with Castillo at 2B in 2010. Maybe throw Fontenot or Miles into the Burrell deal if you can
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I bought a Betta Fish and named him after
you know who about a year ago (just after the signing). It died yesterday. That must be a sign that the trade is forthcoming.
by doofus cubs guy on Dec 2, 2009 10:07 AM CST reply actions
did you put a mirror next to the bowl?
and it ended up fighting with itself? If so, how very appropriate to this situation.
We are just compounding the original bad deal
by making a WORSE deal. I am in the extreme minority in thinking that keeping Bradley is the least of the bad options but
faiing that just trade him t0 some team willing to pick up a few million on the contract and trust me somebody will. Being stuck with Burrell, Castillo etc is absurd.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
I am starting to lean
your way on this. Castillo would be Juan Pierre part deux and Burrell is usless to the Cubs if they kept him.
And, If if that deal comes together (re: Castillo)…who is the third outfielder?
The “least of all evils” approach may be what happens.
Well, the Juan Pierre thing doesn't really ring true.
For starters, Castillo has shown a sustained ability to get on base at a higher rate than Pierre – graph. Second, our expectations of Castillo would be much lower. Again, he’s a potentially, somewhat valuable way out of the Milton mess. Nothing more, nothing less.
Also, I’m not clear on what you mean by “third outfielder.”
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
also ...
Pierre was viewed as a disappointment because the Cubs gave up three good pitching prospects — not a $10 million outfielder with attitude issues.
That's true - and one of those pitching prospects has turned out to be pretty good.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
did we get draft picks ...
when Pierre went to LA?
Also, Pierre wasn’t THAT bad as a Cub (not like Mel Rojas or anything), though he was disappointing. It was more that the Cubs gave up a lot to get him.
Not sure about draft picks for Pierre.
I wasn’t quite as obsessive a fan back then.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
I believe Pierre was only a type B free agent.
I believe the Cubs did receive a sandwich for him.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 2, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
Well, Pierre was coming from Miami...
…so I’d assume it was one of those great Cuban sandwiches.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
If the Cubs flip Burrell for Castillo
they have Fukudome and Soriano in the outfield. Would they then try and sign RJ and have a Fuld/RJ platoon in center, with Dome moving back to right?
That was my question as far as the “third outfielder”…..essentially, who is in CF.
Fair points RE: Pierre vs. Castillo…..I’m just not a fan of Castillo, and like I told Jessica – I would lean towards retaining Bradley than making this deal.
there's just NO way
… Bradley will be back. I have SOME sympathy for the guy, because the booing at Wrigley was excessive at times, especially early in the year. But it’s too toxic of a situation for him to be back.
I do agree that he won't be back.
But personally, I would rather keep him than make the proposed deal.
Well, I'd think they'd try to keep...
…trying to trade for Granderson. If that doesn’t work, maybe they can get Mike Cameron on an affordable deal. Marlon Byrd’s name has been brought up, too, though the Rangers did offer him arbitration. If all else fails then, yeah, I’d have to think they’d look to re-sign RJ and go with a Fuld/Johnson platoon. Tyler Colvin certainly doesn’t appear ready to be a full-time player.
And, as elgato mentions above, I don’t think retaining Bradley is really on the table. At least not right now. If Hendry simply cannot work out a trade with anyone, he’s probably going to have to sit down with Tom Ricketts and really make the call as to whether the team is prepared to release Milton and eat all that money. I wouldn’t want to be in Jim Hendry’s shoes during that conversation.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Gotcha.
I just wasn’t sure how this deal would affect payroll (if at all) for 2010, and how that would impact acquiring a CF.
Also, I am hoping against hope that JH finds a way to move Bradley. Unfortunately (as has been hashed and rehashed here and elsewhere), it appears that there isn’t going to be a deal done that doesn’t leave us feeling a little, well, bleh.
No matter what they do
Burrell can’t play CF. I don’t think he belongs on a major league outfield. He is suited for DH
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Barring a trade for Granderson
I would think they would go hard after Mike Cameron (hopefully not Marlon Byrd). That would leave them with something like this:
Castillo
Dome
Lee
Ramirez
Cameron
Soriano
Soto
Theriot
Against lefties, maybe put Fox in RF and move Theriot to the 2-hole, and have an oxygen tank in the dugout for Cameron. It’s not an ideal lineup, but I think they could win with it.
The OF defense would overall be improved with Cameron in CF and Dome in RF, even with the occasional start by Fox. The bench would be Baker, Fox (or Dome), Fuld, Blanco, and the backup C.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
Yup, entirely possible.
And depending on performance, there’s nothing saying Soto would have to hit seventh. I figure, Soto, Cameron, and Soriano could hit anywhere in that group, depending on performance.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
We should consider ourselves lucky..........
………….if the line up in April is as good as the one you have outlined.
Candidly, I don’t see the situation being as “good” as you have painted above.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
I'll take Burrell over Bradley
There is simply no way Bradley is back with the Cubs in 2010.
If you look at Burrell as a 4th OF type, with some platoon time in RF, subbing for Soriano, a PH and DH in Int League games, he isn’t a bad option from my perspective. Overpaid? absolutely, but those are sunk costs.
I have said this before, but it would very much remind me of the Karros addition.
Eamus Ursuli!
4th OF types generally are able to play more than an awful LF
Just sayin’. He’s more of a 1st PH type and that’s all.
Agreed, management seems stuck on using Bradley as a scapegoat
for last season. The Cubs should take measures to address Bradley’s off the field problems rather then simply decide to ship him out at all costs. On the field, keeping Bradley seems to be our best option.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
Burrell is only one year...
Just stick him on the bench and pay him $8M to be a PH/5 OF/back-up 1B. One year of Burrell is better than 2 years of Bradley.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
It seems
no matter what the deal is going to be to get Bradley out of Chicago, the Cubs will get the but end of the deal. This is what happens when you have a pain in the ass player and a bad contract, the worst combination you can find
Al, why is 20 SB that bad?
Yes, it’s not 50. But 20 SB would be the SECOND HIGHEST on the team, only one off of the lead. Castillo is declining, and unless we can get rid of Miles or Fontenot in one of these deals, I’m not really for it, but Castillo still belongs on a major league roster and could be a useful part of the team this year IMO
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
The problem is...
… Castillo used to have above average speed. Last year it was average. In 2010? Who knows?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm fine with average!
This team has NO speed. Soriano was 2nd on the SB chart in 2009 with 9. 9!!! That’s insane. I’d be happy with 15 from Castillo. His on base numbers are good too. Getting him means we don’t have to limit ourselves to speedy CF’ers as well. If the asking price for Granderson is too high, go after Cameron or Byrd.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I think he means it's deteriorating and may go farther
SB isn’t necessarily the best gauge, though.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 2, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
Castillo also doesn't get caught stealing -
he knows when he can go and when he can’t. That’s valuable – especially if it rubs off on some other players on the team.
Is he traded yet?
by DGU on Dec 2, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Excellent point
Thanks for making me look better :)
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I agree
I honestly believe he will have a great year in 10’… if he is removed from the Cubs.( He almost needs to if he wants to have a future in the MLB). However, I think he cannot be productive with the Cubs. He has made enemies with the fanbase/management/players/media and is too much of a headcase to overcome what has happen. As much as I want him to be the player he SHOULD be on the Cubs, It just won’t happen. Best if both parties move on
Who cares?
I’m at a loss why any Bradley deal even makes waves here. First, if we are to assume that the overwhelming majority of folks want Bradley gone at whatever cost, I would argue that further discussing what the Cubs might receive in return is pointless as it is abundantly clear that they are not going to be getting value in return. I mean seriously…Aaron Rowand, Luis Castillo, Pat Burrell….of the three, only Burrell has real value and only as a hitter that reverts back to previous numbers rather than continuing his slide from 2009. Because the club already has a quickly declining, defensively-challenged player in LF, Burrell’s value to the Cubs is virtually nil.
But Luis Castillo isn’t much better. Not only is his speed declining rapidly, but he’s lazy, he’s disinterested and contending teams want no part of him…see Minnesota and the Yankees. If he didn’t want to be in Chicago, he’d be even worse.
There is no magical fit for unloading Bradley and the rabbit-out-of-the-hat trick shouldn’t be expected. They’d be better off dealing him solely for cash and filling his hole another way…any way…if they have indeed decided they are going to trade him.
I don’t want either Aaron Rowand or Luis Castillo on this ballclub if it believes that it will even remotely contend in 2010. Kevin Millwood perhaps although unlikely….Curtis Granderson in a heartbeat…although similarly unlikely…but otherwise, deal Bradely for cash and be done with it.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
you don't think the Cubs will "remotely contend"
in 2010 if Castillo’s on the roster? Really?
OK, so let's say the Cubs do deal Milton solely for cash.
You say they should, ahem, fill his hole another way. Any specific suggestions? Would you be comfortable with Sam Fuld as the Cubs starting centerfielder, assuming the Granderson trade is as unlikely as you say?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
agreed
Also, the Cubs gave up three good pitching prospects for Pierre — not a disgruntled $10 million outfielder who became a clubhouse cancer.
I agree...
Sell Bradley for whatever you can sell him for. I’m really not all that up on Castillo. I think Jeff Baker did an above average job at 2nd while he was with the Cubs last year. I think the 2nd base job should be his to lose. As far as CF goes…Granderson, of course. If not, then I’d play Fuld and re-sign Reed Johnson and see if we can contend till trade deadline and then see what’s out there. It all comes down to getting rid of Bradley. They need to do that asap and be done with it. Speculation on when or where he goes will only be harmful in signing other players or making of other decisions. Also…is it just me or is this off-season already dragging on?
IF,,,
Trading for and playing Burrell solves the attitude problems that Bradley brought such that the team can move forward, play ball, and have fun, I’m fine with the trade.
Flipping Burrell for Castillo seems a bit unlikely (we’d be paying at least $12M for Castillo AND Bradley in 2011), but I would be fine with this improvement as well although not a huge fan. Starting Castillo at 2B in 2011 could be painful.
The upside of trading for Burrell and keeping him, to me, is that you are out of the contract in one year. Sure, we’ll have to pick up some of Bradley’s salary in 2011, but there will be cheeper ways to pay a 2B or righthanded RF than paying for Castillo in 2011. Hopefully, by then we can play Castro at short and have some mix of Theriot/Baker/Fontenot at 2B. Find a cheep bat to start in RF against righties, and we’re done.
As I’ve said several times before, Burrell’s bt can be leveraged by starting him in right against left handers as Fukudome’s platoon mate, and his defensinive damaged can be minimized by using a late inning replacement when he does start and the fact that he won’t get that many starts under such an arrangement. His bat will be very useful off the bench when he doesn’t start, and he can spot Soriano in left or Lee at first on occasion to give him more at bats. I realize this is an expensive super-sub, but the cost is already sunk. Why not fill it with a useful bat?
Also, while I find the “flip burrell” scenario highly unlikely, at the least we could probably move him before the deadline to an AL contender in need of offense.
Burrell’s career line v. lefties: .269/.403/.513. I expect him to improve a little bit over last year with a return to the NL (assuming better health, he was very nicked up last year). If we can dump Bradley and only have to eat $6M for next year, I’d do it. I think this is the best we are going to get at this point.
This is a fair point.
Pat Burrell DOES have a value to the Chicago Cubs – he is the quickest way out of the Milton mess without eating ALL of Bradley’s remaining salary. Maybe you give Pat a chance to – as unlikely as it may seem – play some right field in very limited instances. Otherwise, he’s the big bat off the bench and occasional fill-in for Soriano in left. And, as you say, if Burrell does show some pop, maybe Hendry can move him at the trade deadline.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
If hendry only has to eat half
of Bradley’s 2011 and can move Burrell by the deadline without eating more contract dollars, that has the Cubs offloading MB for the $6M in 2011 and paying roughly half of Burrell’s 2010 at $4.5M.
I’ll agree as paying out $10.5M in total “penalty” without having to take additional risk like Rowand or V. Wells and crippling the team for a longer term makes sense.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
It's obviously a huge gamble, but that would be the ultimate upside.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
So...
With backloaded contracts and dead money, is 2012 “THE” year?
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Since...
Old Bud is stepping down after 2012, I fully expect the Mayan calendar thing to turn out to be true, so 2012 had better be THE year.
Well, if the Cubs did win it all, I suppose that would be one more omen fulfilled.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
And if the Cubs win it all that year....
and it turns out to be the end of the world, I’m fine with it.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
So, a WS trophy presentation at 1060 W. Addison
will awake Gozer, given that’s the address on his driver’s license?
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Agreed
IMO, the Cubs should try to find the shortest contract as a replacement, even if that means giving up some $ in 2011 (like the $6M suggested).
While Burrell obviously is not worth his 2010 salary to the 2010 Cubs, he might not be quite as “useless” as some have said.
First, he is a “power” bat off the bench. He could play the first 6 innings of the game against LHP in RF before being replaced by Fuku or Fuld. And when Sori makes his annual trip to the DL, starting Burrell in LF for two weeks to two months might be a better option than other replacements.
Do I love Burrell? Not hardly. But getting rid of MB is more important and I don’t view Pat as “useless” - just expensive for the job he’d be performing.
good thinking
Also, if Soriano’s health is an issue again, Burrell could get a lot of playing time in left.
It also might mean
That Soriano won’t be playing hurt and thus hurting the team in the process
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Provided his hurting the team is
predicated on his being hurt.
While his streaks, when healthy, benefit, his slumps definitely hurt.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
I'd argue that a large reason that his slumps have been so bad
Is because he’s trying to play hurt
Look at DLee’s numbers the year after the wrist injury or even a year later when he had neck problems. In 2009, he was healthy and hit well.
I admire Soriano’s willingness to do all he can for the team and his upfrontness (I can create words!) with the fact that he struggles. But he needs to know when to sit and when he is hurting the team. Everyone slumps, but his really hurt.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Soriano has been streaky throughout his career, even
through periods of extended health. I don’t buy that he’s been hurt every year.
I agree he collapsed last year on injury, but even healthy his game can go away.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
I still think he's a great asset to the team
If/When healthy
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I understand, but don't agree.
Ignoring his impact on payroll, he can be a great asset, especially if he can be rested frequently during his down periods. With his salary impact and the recent need for a platoon in CF, the fall off to a player to fill in for the cold streak is too great.
Above, combined with elite players seeming to magically decline at earlier ages than a couple of years ago, I’m leery of Soriano as he approaches 40. His value and success seem to be based on atheleticism and speed.
As flexibility, bat speed, and foot speed errode, can Soriano keep the hot streaks going long enough to be an asset to the team? I’m on record as saying he was key in 2007 and 2008, but I’m concerned about going forward.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Your concern is echoed by myself as well as pretty much everyone throughout this site
However, I think that this year you will see a revival of Soriano. It’s just a gut feeling. I know all the facts are against it. I think the Cubs signed him for a year or two too many but regardless, he’s useful and I’m glad he’s on our team….for now
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
This
is just one more positive to Burrell. He allows us to rest two of our big bats with minimal drop off. You are essentially upgrading from Hoffpauir to Burrell. Burrell being an established veteran, I think Lou might be more likely to cycle him in with Soriano and Lee (as compared to a Hoffpauir or Fox). This is what we need to do to get the most out of our aging team.
The main concern I have
is about our outfield defensively. I’m a fan of Fuld and Colvin, but don’t expect them to be everyday starters. Soriano and Fuku…well, we know that storyline… Adding Burrell and not being able to pick up another solider outfielder doesn’t make me excited for our Opening Day roster…
Most important thing Al said was
get the Bradley deal done before the winter meetings. In my opinion, can’t happen soon enough. He is four flat tires keeping us from moving one inch. This needs fixed so we can move on with the limited other moves we have to make.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Did Al just use WAR?!
What is this world coming to?!!!!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Yeah, I've noticed him sneaking it into a couple recent posts.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
I'm trying to learn more about it...
… and use it when it seems useful.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Castillo
It’s not ideal, but from the beginning, it seemed like the easiest resolution to the Bradley situation, if possible. His defense is rapidly declining, so that means, in tight situations, the team might have to go with late game switches. What he would add is another top of the order hitter, something that the Cubs do need, unless Ryan Theriot becomes more 2008 version. I don’t necessarily buy the Spd scores that fangraphs does as a great indicator of anything, but his spd score hasn’t dipped that much. His discipline should be good enough to let him be a solid option at the top.
Sure, trading for Luis Castillo is essentially getting, say, Sam Fuld offense (and Fuld may have more pop than what Luis has left) but Sam wasn’t going to start, and Luis is one of the few guys that has been mentioned that would be of minor use to the club beyond being a bench asset. I do believe the club needs another top of the order hitter to be more competitive in 2010, and I’m not sold on Theriot being an option and there aren’t really any top of the order CF options out there that seem attainable.
No it’s not ideal, but at least Castillo could potentially add something to the club. He’d be an expensive bench guy for 2011, if he’s here, but there are very few options on the table right now, and the club wants to move beyond Milton.
by toonsterwu on Dec 2, 2009 12:02 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I really don't think ...
that Fuld will have a better year than Castillo.
I don't think Fuld will get the chance
but really, like Castillo, both have superb discipline at the plate.
Rec'd
Castillo could turn out to be a waste but at the least we have other options at 2B, and he’s not being paid all that much. Even if he is horrible, Theriot will be moving there in a year or so and we don’t have to worry. He could be a good bat and a decent sub off the bench as well.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Castillo is an albatross
I prefer Baker/Fontenot or heck Baker/Blanco/.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
He has only two years left on his contract.
Compared to some of the other guys on the Cubs payroll, that’s more of a pesky sparrow chirping outside your window than an albatross.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Not if you trade for him now.
He is a great white Whale wasting a roster spot. Bradley has more value as a player but fans won’t get past the off field stuff,
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 2, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
How about the ON field stuff?!
The guy didn’t produce and was utterly useless from the left side of the plate, which is WHY HE WAS SIGNED. Defensively he held his ground but when you have less RBI’s than Jake Fox, who had almost half the at bats that Bradley did, Theriot, and Fontenot, fans have a right to be angry. The off field stuff just pushed him farther away. The guy didn’t own up to the fact that he played horribly as well. I still have patience for Soriano because the guy knows he’s struggling and is trying. Bradley blames everyone else and alienates himself. This hurts himself and the team.
His off the field stuff is stupid and childish, but people do stupid things. Who was the Blackhawks player who got into trouble with the cab driver? Don’t we forgive him? Was it Kane? I don’t follow hockey that much. The guy produces and we forget about the off the field stuff.
To be forgiven, you have to provide SOMETHING to the team. I think Bradley would have an issue if he was asked to bring donuts for everyone.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Yep
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 2, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
What you said.
Honestly, how can anyone espouse the acquisition of Castillo as poor, especially when Bradley is jettisoned in the process?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
I prefer Baker over him
but Baker can be moved around and subbed at different places while still getting time at 2nd. Look, if Castillo was a FA, I wouldn’t give two cents for him. As a way out of MB? I’m not against it.
Where are Karros and Grud
when we need to trade for them? Wait, we went down that road before.
I think Burrell is Bradley’s stats without the attitude and one year less of contract. Definitely not a great fit for the Cubs – where to play him, right-handed bat.
But I think Castillo would be an upgrade at 2B. Castillo can still bat at the top of the order (knows how to take walks) and he is an everyday 2B. His skills have diminished, but his batting style and the ability to take walks continue well with age.
Castillo’s days in FL – great DPs with A Gonzalez and high choppers off the plate – are behind him. But his game could help the Cubs for the next 2 years.
Burrell doesn't quite eqaul Bradley's stats.
Burrell’s OPS last year was .682 compared to Bradley’s .775. Burrell also hasn’t hit above .260 the last four years. If you were looking at ceiling, I think you’d agree that Milton’s is much higher.
I don’t agree that we should look at 2010 as a sunk cost. According to the rumor, for $18 mil, we’re getting Pat the Bat. How is that a good deal?
Personally, I’d rather send Milton, Lou, Hendry and Ricketts to a long weekend of couples counseling and roll the dice again in 2010. Maybe it’s the CPA in me, but we’re losing too much value in trading Milton right now. I’d rather go the rehabilitation route.
Always loyal to Leon
Yes, I think Bradley will rebound
I doubt Burrell will. For Burrell, what you see is what you get. 2009 for Bradley has an aberration.
But I don’t think Bradley has the media skills to thrive in Chicago. if he starts off slow again, he won’t be contrite and he’ll replay 2009 again. Even if he does start off good, a reporter will ask him a question that ticks him off. He’s lose-lose with the media.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 2, 2009 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
It doesn't bother me what he says in the media
I didn’t disagree with a lot of it, and even if I did, who cares.? I care about what happens on the field, and currently, I think Bradley will provide the biggest results.
Also, I think a Burrell for Castillo swap is wishful thinking. Why on earth would the Mets want Pat .221 Burrell? Castillo’s value, especially because of his ability to lead off and get on base is worth much more than Burrell.
Cubs fans need to think of this trade of Bradley for Burrell and ask yourself whether you’d do that or not. It’s easy to say “Get rid of MB for anything”, but this anything is going to put up “Milesque” type numbers. At least fans will have a new scapegoat.
Always loyal to Leon
Check out what the Mets have in left field right now.
Burrell slugged over .500 as recently as 2008 – and I believe Citi Field is considered hitter-friendly. The guy obviously had a bad 2009, but comparing him to Aaron Miles is a bit of a stretch.
And, again, for the Cubs, Burrell would represent a relatively quick and less financially painful way out of the Milton fiasco. That’s really more what this is about.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
and I believe Citi Field is considered hitter-friendly.
where did you hear that?
1 Aaron down, 1 to go
by jesus christos on Dec 2, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
it's not a hitter-friendly park
Burrell’s hitting won’t get any better and his ‘defense’ would likely suffer at Citi
Very much a pitchers park....
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Well, I guess I MISheard it somewhere.
I thought both of the new New York stadiums were hitter-friendly.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Yankee Stadium=Launching pad
Regardless of the wind, when you have fences at 318’ down the line, there’s going to be a lot of homers
Citi Field is tough to hit out of. Deep dimensions, high walls. Not as bad as Petco, but tough
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Who cares? Milton does.
And that’s the problem. Milton has a thin skin and poor media skills. And he takes it with him onto the feel. And it impacted his play last season. I think Bradley will rebound. But not in Chicago. I don’t think he can handle the pressure in Chicago.
Burrell for Castillo is wishful thinking.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 2, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
But it's not just Lou, Hendry, and Ricketts that he would need to win over.
There are 24 other players in the clubhouse, not one of whom came to his defense when he was shut down at the end of the years, and although they chose their words carefully, most made it known that they were glad to be rid of him. Not to mention the millions of fans all around the country who are over him, and the media, who would make the whole season a circus, from the first day of spring training to the last day of the season. The media circus would be like Bonds’ last year or two in San Francisco. I just don’t see him starting the season in a Cubs uniform in any way, shape, or form because the season would just turn into the “Barnum & Bradley” circus.
Now, this Burrell deal. This is a tough one. Clearly, Burrell is a defensive liability, and offensively his best days are behind him. He’s 33, has no speed, has really nothing that we are looking for other than being a good bat off the bench. He does seem like he would be a great clubhouse presence, and he’s a guy who has been to the World Series and had success there. The big question is, what role would he be willing to play with the Cubs? If he’s expecting to be an everyday starting outfielder, then I nix this trade, because that is simply not going to happen. But if he’s willing to be a veteran leader and try to step in a play a certain role, I probably roll the dice on this one, because you simply have to get Bradley off the team. He was not the sole reason the 2009 Cubs failed, but he is the biggest road block toward the Cubs succeeding in 2010, and it has nothing to do with on-field performance (I know he has a good OBP, you don’t have to tell me that). I don’t know what Hendry has cooking right now, other than what I’ve read, and that sometimes turns out to be just smoke. Keep trying to get Granderson. But I look at the Bradley situation as “a bird in the hand is worth two in a bush”. If you have a taker now and can get something for him, do it. Don’t wait for February and risk having the circus some to Mesa, Arizona when it’s supposed to be Spring Training.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
Put Burrell in LF, Soriano at 2B,
and the pitching staff in counselling.
Giterdone Jim!!!
Is he traded yet?
A little prozac, restraints, and
security will help Ronny and protect Pat as well.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Why didn't we think of that before?!?
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Could we field the worst defensive team ever?
If we traded Derrek Lee and re-signed Michael Barrett
LF Soriano
CF Fukudome
RF Burrell
3B Fox
SS Theriot
2B Castillo
1B Ramirez
C Barrett
But, wait, daver says, UZR likes Ryan Theriot at SS. Oh well.
Is he traded yet?
by DGU on Dec 2, 2009 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
That's right.
So replace Theriot with Miles and we’re good to go. I mean, bad to go. I mean…aw, nevermind.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
be serious...
It is hard to find a baseball official who actually thinks the Mets are going to land either Jason Bay or Matt Holliday in free agency, yet the Mets still want to add power to left field. Burrell is a woeful fielder, but he has some power plus removing Castillo would allow the Mets to hunt some additional power at second base.
this logic is absurd and amounts to: Since the Mets won’t get the best LF in the game (Holliday, with a 5.7 WAR), they’ll probably settle for the worst (Burrell had a negative WAR with the bat alone—if he had played any significant amount of time at LF, he would have easily been the worst in MLB). it defies logic that any ML GM considers Burrell anything more than a DH (and a bad one at that).
It only defies logic if
you think front offices utilize WAR. I’m not saying they don’t… and I’m not saying the Mets want anything to do with Burrell. And he was a regular LF just one season ago.
That said, all sorts of front offices have been known to “reach” to fill a presumed need (e.g., Mariners signing Silva for 4 years, Cubs seeking to get more left-handed, etc.).
So IF the Mets’ front office determines they need more power AND would like to get rid of Castillo, perhaps they would CONSIDER flipping Castillo for Burrell and trying to pick up someone like Uggla to play 2B. Again… not saying they will do this or that these would be good moves… only that front office types sometimes reach to fill a perceived need.
front offices have actually come around quickly
on the Adam Dunns of the world. When a guy is this bad on defense, the results are uncontroversial: all the fancy metrics agree, scouts agree, and fans agree (http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/scoutResults2008_PHI.html). If Burrell was a proven bat like Dunn, maybe (though even Dunn plays mostly at 1B now) I’d buy it, but he’s not and is a super long shot to be a Met next year.
Burrell is a 1B by trade
and the Mets have only Daniel Murphy at 1B. Aside from the writer not realizing that Burrell is a 1B, it’s a trade that makes sense for the Mets.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
So playing 58 games at 1B ten years ago...
…makes Burrell a ‘1B by trade’. How did I miss that? Nice work detective.
Amen
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Burrell was originally a third baseman.
He played mostly first base in the minor leagues, and would have been the Phillies’ 1B, except they got Travis Lee and Lee couldn’t play anywhere else, so they moved Burrell to the outfield.
Next time check your facts before you condescend.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 2, 2009 7:58 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
This series of comments is odd and/or ironic because BLou tends to be one of the more anti-stats guys on here, and the biggest reason to get annoyed at statsism is when its proponents condescend to people who know a players’ history and scouting repots.
Is he traded yet?
by DGU on Dec 2, 2009 8:09 PM CST up reply actions
Wait a minute...
DeRoMyHero called out the author (Sherman) bc he didn’t mention that Burrell was a ‘1B by trade’. I found that absurd. Paul Konerko came up as a catching prospect. He was moved to 3B as a rookie. He even spent some time in LF. This was all about a decade ago. It’s interesting, but hardly relevant to Konerko’s present value. If a trade rumor was reported about Konerko and Sherman failed to mention he was a ‘3B or catcher by trade’, would anyone blink? The irony is that Burrell is such a train wreck in LF, it would be difficult for him to suck more at 1B, even a full decade after he last played the position. Furthermore, Burrell’s bat would play even worse at 1B than LF…the whole idea is just half-baked.
Your example isn't relevant
because of the defensive spectrum. 1B is easier to play than LF. Burrell was originally a 1B and tried in LF because the Phillies had Abreu and Thome. So, it’s irrelevant that Konerko came up at other positions – he couldn’t stick there and there’s now no way he can shift back up the defensive spectrum at this age. But in Burrell’s case we’re talking about shifting back down the spectrum to the position he grew up knowing.
Is he traded yet?
which i pointed out..
that doesn’t mean he’s still a ML 1B. And, again, there’s an offensive spectrum as well whereby Burrell’s bat becomes less desirable at 1B than LF.
To be fair he didn’t condescend first. Reply could have came to the poster above him. Just saying.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
Good point.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 2, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions
Meant to do that.
Reply to condescencion fail.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Hudson
How about replacing Bradley with Orlando Hudson…with the cash they receive from my proposed deal of Bradley for cash. Keep in mind, I’m not putting pencil to paper here…I’ll leave the number crunching to the Hendry’s of the world who actually get paid to do that…but a legitimate Gold Glove 2B, leadoff hitter and leader would be ideal with this ballclub. Give him $6 million, or less, and they’ve not only cleaned up the clubhouse, but they’ve also added a legitimate player.
Now Part B…what to do with Theriot / Fontenot / and the CF position. Non-tender Fontenot…you don’t need him at Super 2 money and he wrote his own ticket as a platoon or bench player wth regular AB’s. He’s replaceable.
Theriot, as much as I dislike him at SS, can keep the spot warm for Castro whether that is in 2010, 2011 or later. Pairing him with Hudson would improve his play I’ve got to believe.
Figure out what you’ll do in CF. Either way you look at it, you’ve got a hole somewhere, whether it’s replacing Bradley outright or replacing the player you received for Bradley. I would make my job one step easier by signing Hudson and worrying about CF once that is done.
Of course, this commentary is made completely off the cuff, and probably makes too much sense for it to actually happen. I’m also leaving out the holes that I believe still exist on both the starting staff and the bullpen but signing Hudson would benefit both of those positions reasonably significantly just by Hudson showing up to play 2B.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
And nobody is really sure why.
Ron Belliard really isn’t better at anything than Orlando Hudson. Hudson is a pretty good player.
"Was" a better ballplayer
Orlando Hudson has significantly declined in the field and his bat speed just isn’t there. Joe Torre knows what he was doing in that circumstance.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
After his streaking start, I believe he slumped
like crazy.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Well
Hudson can play. He’s a much better option than anything the Cubs currently have at 2B. He’d help the club in many ways….irrespective of what the Dodgers did at the end of 2009.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
I fail to see how he'd help the club in many ways
He’s probably about the same level defensively as a Jeff Baker. He doesn’t have much pop. About the only thing he has is a decent walk rate that should lead to a decent OBP. Essentially, he’s basically Luis Castillo, without the baserunning skills. If Castillo was a FA, I wouldn’t care about him. I just don’t see the point of spending on junk like Hudson when the payroll has limited room.
he might be a better option ...
but given the other financial constraints, I don’t think he’s that much more valuable than Jeff Baker.
But you can't worry about centerfield AFTER signing Hudson...
…because you probably won’t have enough payroll left to PAY any of the decent available centerfielders.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Burrell?!?
Pat Burrell is an awfu, awful, awful, awful outfielder. We already have one of those in Alfonso Soriano. So where on God’s green earth does Burrell play?!?!? Does he rot on the bench only to be used as a DH in interleague games played in American League ballparks?!?!
If the option is Pat Burrell, then just cut to the chase and eat Bradley’s salary whole.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Tend to agree. Fixed:
Burrell-For-Bradley Rumor Rears Its UGLY Head Again
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
And it should be noted that...
… not trading / cutting and eating his contract whole IS an option. You could… you know… keep him?
* GASP! OH NO HE DIDN’T! *
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
I'm leaning toward keeping/cutting Bradley
If the best we can do is Burrell or Castillo.
Burrell? He has nowhere to play for us and besides how often is a player “flipped” in baseball? Castillo I can’t stand. I’m sure Cubs fans will really not take to his style of play, either. Castillo’s bat in the lineup leaves us with (until they find another CFer?) Castillo-Fukudome-Theriot-Fuld-Koyie Hill for 30 games plus the pitcher’s spot. Will the Cubs even hit 100 HR’s in 2010? I fear they are a DLee injury away from a 2005 deja vu. With that potential line-up I’d just as well start trying to rebuild now.
If he gets off to a better start perhaps Bradley’s trade value increases by July?
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Dec 2, 2009 11:24 PM CST up reply actions
No.
Bradley’s value to the Cubs is zero. In fact, it’s negative, because if they keep him, the circus starts the day everyone reports to spring training. New ownership does NOT want that.
He’ll be gone. Almost doesn’t matter who the Cubs get.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Really -
In Burrell, they have not fully sunk the cost of cutting Bradley. They still have an asset they MAY be able to move in the future to defray more cost.
Why would anyone think eating all of Bradley’s contract up front is the best idea in this situation discussing Bradley for Burrell. I understand if someone doesn’t want to take on a worse contract in the form of Rowand or Wells, but IF any trade reduces the Bradley obligation, the new player can still be released and/or traded.
The door is closing on the window provided by the core talent on this team. The combination of player age and contract constraints make 2010 and possibly 2011 it unless Hendry can convert something. Eating the MB contract sandwich in it’s entirety further hurts budget for product on the field in 2010 and 2011.
Hendry cannot eat Bradley’s contract too late IMO. An offseason training injury, a retirement, etc. puts a contending team in need.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Fair enough
You’re right. I think the “cutting” aspect of my post was more knee-jerk reaction to reading all the (two?) depressing alternatives to Bradley. Cutting him would make no sense unless we have to take on more iffy payroll in trading him or if they just can’t trade him.
The window for this core of players could end by July, and perhaps that’s not a bad thing. Ramirez has a player’s option and could split. Lee, if not extended, and Lilly could be FA at years’ end, too.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Dec 3, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
The reason just cutting him might be better than taking on Burrell
Yes, just cutting him means you’ve fully sunk the cost. But what you have to consider is who else you would have on your roster instead of Burrell. Keeping Burrell means you might not have room for Fuld or Blanco or Fontenot or another bullpen arm, etc..
Obviously you could just cut Burrell as well, if it comes to that. So if that’s the strategy Hendry is following, that would make sense. Don’t make your final final move until you have to. But if you deal Bradley for somebody you intend to keep, you just need to realize that’s one less roster spot you have to play with.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Maybe this is the best way to get them to stop carrying 12 pitchers.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
That doesn't make sense.
Trading Bradley for Burrell means you are replacing a roster spot, one for one. It shouldn’t affect anyone else.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Sure it does
Assuming MB isn’t in the plans for 2010, if you have 24 players before the trade, not including MB, and trade for Burrell, then you have 25. If you cut MB, you have 24.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 3, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
Then who is your CF/RF if you cut him?
Keep in mind you just lost 10ish mil in cap space because of cutting him, which you also lose next year. What happens if we have a large hole next year? Lilly is a free agent. It’s better to get a bad player who might have some use than no player at all. Burrell or Castillo are viable options considering the situation. Paying for nobody seems stupid to me
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I'm not advocating it. I am explaining ballhawk's point.
You are responding to one comment instead of the entire conversation.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 3, 2009 3:19 PM CST up reply actions
I get Ballhawk's point, and
would might be on his side if the payroll and purse strings weren’t so clearly hindered.
If Lou can go weeks with active players in his dog house that he won’t play (Eyre, Fox, Pie, etc.), how would having Burrell in a Lenny Harris, Darryl Ward, Cliff Floyd role hurt and keep options open to not realize the MB loss?
I realize it makes the subject go away now, but I don’t think that makes it worth it.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
If you just cut him, i.e. do not trade him for another player, then you free up a spot
And it very much has the potential to affect other players because that extra spot means one less cut/decision Hendry would have to make come end of spring training.
In other words, if it would have come down to Blanco or Berg for that last spot, well, now there’s no need to decide – you can keep them both.
So what you really have to weigh is who would you rather have on your roster – the likes of Burrell/Castillo vs. what would have been your 26th guy (Blanco, Berg, Gaub, etc.).
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Can't they put a bubble around him
And pretend he doesn’t exist? Fine him $10,000 everytime he talks to the press? Hire some firm to send Bradley Valentine’s Day cards every day so he feels loved?
OK, fine, bring me the horrible fielding-.220 hitting-strike out machine-9 million dollar back-up Burrell for the EXACT same 18 million dollar starter we already have….and I’ll spend the rest of the off-season praying we can flip him for Castillo.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Dec 3, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
This pretty much sums it up.
Look, i want Bradley gone as much as anybody else (well, except Al i guess) but i just don’t see the benefit of making most of the moves we’ve seen floated.
I guess, in light of what we are likely to get back, i’m willing to forgive the dude and give him a second chance. Maybe he comes back and behaves. Maybe the team gets off to a good start and he’s happy. Who knows? I don’t. Al doesn’t. Nobody does.
And if that doesn’t work out, cut or trade him for something useless in July. It’s all the same at that point, but at least you TRIED to make use of the option most likely to help the team win.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 3, 2009 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I knew it was a matter of time until you came in here.
If not Burrell, then who do you suggest?
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 3, 2009 1:38 AM CST up reply actions
If the Cubs traded for Burrell they'd be in the Bradley situation all over again.
They would still have to trade a player that they don’t really want playing on their team.
Hopefully they wouldn’t go into a trade for Burrell without that second trading partner lined up. If it was the Mets for Castillo that would be OK; at least Castillo can plausibly fill a position for the Cubs.
Not really
Burrell could open the year with the team. We could have him split time with Fukudome – who needs to be rested and platooned – and Soriano – who will probably need to be rested. It’ll be ugly defensively, but I think Burrell’s bat comes back if he comes back to the NL.
Is he traded yet?
Yeah, we want Burrell in Wrigley's right field.
He’d be so ugly defensively he’d need the bat to come back big-time to be remotely useful. And unless he has a great start he won’t be tradeable mid-season. If we want someone that can back up our outfielders (especially in RF) competently the worst way to do that is using two roster spots on Jake Fox.
The difference, of course....
… is that Burrell will get along with his teammates, and won’t cause a media circus.
Agreed that Burrell is pretty useless for the Cubs as a player, but as noted above, he could be moved elsewhere before the season starts, even if he begins spring training in a Cubs uniform.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Exactly - What do people want?
A $10M obligation for a guy sitting on a beach or worse, performing like 2008 Bradley making an additional $1M for another team, possibly in the division, or
At least a guy who can backup 1B and pinch hit with a little power.
Lou has proven he doesn’t use a 25 man roster anyway.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Agreed.
In a vacuum, I don’t want Burrell (or Castillo) either. But this is about losing Milton, getting at least some salary relief and minimizing the amount of time we have to deal with Bradley’s bad-contract-swap counterpart. Pat the Bat meets all three criteria. It won’t be pretty, but it will be over (relatively) quickly.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
we're the only team in the majors going after Burrell
and it’s only because we’re trying any way we can to get rid of Bradley, but suddenly there’d be another buyer for Burrell once he got here? O………..K…………….
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Dec 4, 2009 12:36 AM CST up reply actions
Check out Burrell's slugging percentage in 2008 (not that long ago).
If he returns to the National League and puts up decent power numbers, moving him at the trade deadline wouldn’t be out of the question. The Dodgers took a flyer on Jim Thome. I’m not saying it’s likely to happen, but it’s not out of the question.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Castillo
Guys, you don’t want Luis Castillo on this club. For years there have been rumblings, some of them quite loud, that Castillo is both lazy and disinterested. If the effort to trade Bradley is to add clubhouse leadership, or at the very worst, decrease clubhouse negativity, you don’t want to replace him with Luis Castillo. After all, any proposed trade of Bradley would not be based on ability….Bradley has much more ability than Luis Castillo.
On top of it, some of you guys complain about the singles hitters already in the lineup. If any of you had to watch Castillo do his best to reach double-digits in extra-base hits, you’d be falling out of windows complaining about him. The reality…Castillo cannot be considered an upgrade at 2B and is not a viable return option for Bradley. Actual cash is…Castillo isn’t.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
I find the roster spot very valuable.
Unless we can find someone to start, Castillo, I think Burrell is the best option. Considering we could at least cut our losses with him at the end of the year.
Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.
The more and more I think about it, you're right
The guy could have a turn around year, and worse comes to worse, he’s gone after this year. He isn’t the answer and we still need a CF, but he’s gone after the year which clears up a bunch of space for the rotation or wherever.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
It still amazes me that a GM who will spend most of this offseason
trying to dump the bad contracts he saddled the team with still has a job
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Finding and hiring a new GM isn't something that could (or should) be done overnight.
Tom Ricketts is giving Hendry an opportunity to clean up his own mess. If it doesn’t work out, maybe Ricketts will make a change.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
If it doesn't work out I'm certain Ricketts will make a change.
But give Ricketts credit. He is true to his word — he is letting people do their jobs and holding them accountable. Right now Hendry is in the “doing his job” portion of that pledge. If it doesn’t work out, I have no doubt Ricketts will hold him accountable.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Orlando Hudson
Seems like a good player. He could fill the hole at 2nd base. I would take him for the right amount of money and not overpay him like bradley.

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