Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Knicks Beat Lakers With Familiar Strategy

For those who questioned "what other lefty" relievers the Cubs could have pursued that would have been as good as Grabow, I present you Darren Oliver

Oliver's been about a 1.0 WAR level reliever for the last 3 years

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=206&position=P#value

Compare that to Grabow who has been basically replacement level or very slightly above the last 3 years

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1848&position=P#value

The Rangers were able to sign Oliver to a 1 year deal with a vesting option for a 2nd year, total contract value potentially $6.25 million

The Cubs gave Grabow two firm years for a total cost of $7.5 Million

Now I know many will say "What's the big deal over an extra $1.25 Million over 2 years, its no big deal" and to some that's fine.

But the answer remains, there were alternative options who were not only better but cheaper and could have limited the commitment to 1 year instead of two. Or in the best case scenario we could've done this while also offering arbitration to Grabow and perhaps received a pick or just gotten him for 1 year

Its a small thing, but the small things the Cubs fail to do well do add up over time. Each year we're paying other teams to take on small mistakes (Marquis last year, Bradley/Miles this year) and generally were overpaying FA contracts based on the production we can get out of them, both in dollars and years. All of these small things add up. Whether its too many dollars, too many years, or handing the player control of the contract with player options and NTC's, I feel the front office often overlooks the small things and over time the small things have a real impact on our roster.

about 2 years ago Tiny DartmouthCubsFan 15 comments 0 recs  | 

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

IIRC...

… the Grabow deal was $7m, not $7.5. Basically, it’s the same deal as Oliver is getting, about $500k more, for a younger pitcher.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Dec 21, 2009 10:26 AM CST reply actions  

He's younger, he's also worse...

but onto more facts… it was 7.5

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3785

Cubs signed LHP John Grabow to a two-year, $7.5 million contract.
The deal, for some reason, took over a week to finalize. Perhaps the Cubs were having second thoughts. Grabow, 31, was a very solid left-handed reliever this season, but the salary does seem a bit high. He’ll need to prove that his 3.36 2009 ERA was no fluke to justify the chunk of change. And with a 4.03 career ERA and 1.44 career WHIP, the odds are against him.

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 21, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Even so...

… at 39, Oliver could go south at any moment.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Dec 21, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

and then he'd be...

what? John Grabow? on a 1 year deal?

There’s room for him to go South and he’d still be similar to Grabow

and even if he falls off a cliff, its a ONE YEAR deal

that’s the whole point, you want to limit your commitments to relievers because they’re a volatile asset

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 21, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

adj the money with the state tax difference

and it is almost the exact same

NO STATE INCOME TAX IN TEXAS

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 21, 2009 10:57 AM CST reply actions  

and... how does that impact

the Texas Rangers payroll?

regardless even if is the same money, the contract has a lesser commitment (1 year) to a superior player

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 21, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions  

adjust the take home by the difference in income tax from one state to another

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 21, 2009 8:08 PM CST up reply actions  

this benefits the players

in how much they “net” but it has no actual impact on the Rangers unless you’re suggesting every FA takes a discount in texas equal to the tax difference

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 21, 2009 8:38 PM CST up reply actions  

i am saying that for the player the adjusted amount would be to his benefit.

i also went into this before in another thread and included an income calculator showing the difference in cost of living between Houston and Chicago (which could be used for any two cities) to explain how much more a contract in Texas can net the player versus in Chicago. This is part of why IMHO a player like Soriano would be offered more to play in Chicago than say Houston, since the additional could be an agreement to offset the additional taxes to live/work in Illinois.

Does every player take a lesser contract to play in Texas, no of course not, but there are some who have to play closer to home and i would bet that the income tax variance comes into play when the agent/attorney/accountant of the player reviews all offers.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 21, 2009 8:50 PM CST up reply actions  

in addition
A salary of $6,250,000 in Houston, Texas should increase to $9,216,686 in Chicago, Illinois

this does not mean he would need or require $9,216,686 to sign with the Cubs but is a basis to explain that the cost of living in Chicago has to be taken into consideration and is quite high compared to most other cities. Without spending more or giving perks (like the hated NTC) we would have a big problem IMHO with signing some players.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 21, 2009 8:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Might be mistaken

But I believe that the income tax is taken from the state of a person’s primary residence. Example: If your primary residence is in Illinois, and you play for the Rangers, you still have to pay IL income tax. If you live in TX and you play for the Cubs, you do not have to pay income tax.

by ZeoBandit on Dec 21, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

here is what i found
Most states require you to pay personal income tax. Each state has different tax laws. If you live in one state and work in another, you may have to file a state return in both states. Select your state from the drop–down menu or the map below to find out more information about your state’s tax laws.

The following states do not have an income tax: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. New Hampshire taxes only interest and dividend income, and income from an unincorporated business, rental or farm activity. Tennessee taxes interest and dividend income only.

I believe based on what I was taught (many years ago) and with the above, if your primary work place is in Illinois and you live in WIsonsin (for example) you likely have to file in both, but in this case with the Rangers, there is no state income tax meaning its to the players advantage financially.

Now I am not a tax accountant, nor a CPA so there are many things I am not 100% sure on and I could be wrong and accept that upfront. Does anyone here know how it works for athletes with such large contracts, etc?

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 21, 2009 8:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Part of the issue is...

… that some localities are now taxing professional athletes based on the time they spend playing in certain cities. In other words, they are saying that if you are a visiting player in Chicago, you work that portion of your year in Chicago.

Not sure if Illinois or Chicago is doing this yet, but I know other states/cities are.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Dec 22, 2009 9:13 AM CST up reply actions  

i had heard about that before

was not sure how true it was or wasnt. EIther way, that would still benefit a player playing in a state without income tax, and does technically change the terms of the contract, based on the "why did we give “x” player “y” amount when team “z” paid “a” played “b” amount argument, without seeing the adjusted financials for income tax, cost of living, etc. Sadly i cannot find a site that would show such a metric and adjusted income based on it

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 22, 2009 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Wow

Oliver all but told the Angels he was going to retire, and filing for free agency was a hedge in case he changed his mind. If he signs with Texas, the Angels just got kicked in the nuts again this off season.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Dec 21, 2009 6:11 PM CST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Bleed Cubbie Blue, the Chicago Cubs blog for the SB Nation, created on February 9, 2005 by Al Yellon

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Jazz Up Your Recs!
Img_0001_small
Value of Various Plate Approaches
284_small
Cubs' Fantasy Camp 2012 as seen by a Player's Wife
P7200073_small
Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp 2012

Recent FanPosts

Small
Arguably OT: Aussie Baseball Finals Go To Decisive Game Three
Small
New Cubs draft strategy player development
Jeffnewwork_small
What I Expect From The Cubs In 2012
Wrigley_scoreboard_small
What To Do With Alfonso Soriano
Small
A quick update from the 2012 concessions orientation
Caray_small
Is there any FA left worth going after?
Marvin_the_martian_small
Thoughts On Gerardo Concepcion: Trust The Scouts
Star_small
What if Hendry were still our GM instead of TheoJed?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Nice article about Ernie Banks
Yankees Hire Jim Hendry
Dale Sveum Meets Early Arrivals At Camp Buss

Recent FanShots

The Rickettsification of Wrigleyville has begun!
Marlins' Cespedes Offer 6 years, under $40M (MLBTR Link)
BCB Fantasy Baseball 2012
Former Cubs Blogger Interviewed on The Score
Cubs vs. Rangers In Las Vegas Tickets On Sale Monday 2/13
Hoyer driving to Spring Training with his dog
Hoyer-Soriano likely a Cub to start 2012, Garza extension talk a possibility
Law's Top 100 prospects
Ranking the Farm Systems
WGN Releases Season Schedule

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Featured Poll

Poll
How many games will the Cubs win in 2012?

  290 votes | Results

It Is Only...

It Is Only...

Cubs By The Numbers

Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.

Click here to order your copy, available now!

Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges


Managing Editor

Alyellontoppscard_small Al Yellon

Front Page Contributors

Primary_fc_small Josh Timmers

Marvin_the_martian_small Shawn Domagal-Goldman

Other Contributors

Dsc_0139_small David Sameshima

Toonmike_small Mike Bojanowski