Yankees Ship Cabrera to Atlanta
For Javier Vazquez, who was last seen in old Yankee Stadium in Game 7 of the 2004 ALCS allowing multiple homeruns to the Red Sox.
about 2 years ago
Bill Potter
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Interesting.
The Braves must have been seeking salary relief. I think, however, the Yankees are going to be disappointed. Vazquez has some pretty extreme splits pitching in the AL vs. the NL — his one previous year as a Yankee was pretty mediocre.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
what?
the yankees just gave up an unnecessary OF and got a 4+ WAR pitcher as their THIRD/FOURTH starter and you think they’ll be disappointed???
Seriously????
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 22, 2009 9:22 AM CST up reply actions
Well, they were disappointed the last time they had Vazquez
There’s the chance he rebounds, but he struggled the year he was in New York, to the point the Yankees consciously avoided pitching him in the ALCS.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
so
the 1 year in NY is more representative of how you’d project Vazquez next year than his other 11 MLB seasons?
Yes he struggled in NY before, in that one season. I’m willing to use the other 11 seasons to project him going forward than one season 5 years ago
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 22, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions
That's fine. And I understand why you'd do that.
I just wonder if Vazquez is one of those guys who struggles under the bigger spotlight. But for a 4th starter, the Yankees could do far worse.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
i suppose its possible
but the odds are it was just one bad season,also i thought during the ‘04-’05 seasons his wife was struggling with an illness or he was having family issues that needed to attend to and was struggling. I can’t find any links to support this so its all off memory here, but i know after leaving the DBacks he put a NTC into his contract to prevent playing for west coast teams because of how far the trip was to his home (i believe in Puerto Rico).
So perhaps that has something to do with it. All in all, I’m taking the chances that the other 11 seasons are representative of what you’d get from Vazquez
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 22, 2009 9:49 AM CST up reply actions
If he is thier #4
he is by far the best one in baseball
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
Look at his other seasons in the AL, compared to his NL seasons.
Then come back and tell me the same thing.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
ok
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=801&position=P#value
2006 White Sox – 4.8 WAR
2007 White Sox – 5.1 WAR
2008 White Sox – 4.8 WAR
is he a 6.6 WAR pitcher in the AL that he was in the NL with the Braves last season? No of course not, but he’s almost a sure 4-5 WAR level pitcher. That’s better than any pitcher on the Cubs and he’s just being asked to be the 3rd-4th SP in the Yankees rotation.
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 22, 2009 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I thikn the Yankees just robbed the Braves
and I wouldn’t be surprised to see them get near 110 wins this year.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
second deal this offseason
in which the yankees have completely manhandled a team looking for salary relief
that’s how a good organization exercises their financial prowess
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 22, 2009 9:24 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't say they manhandled the Braves
They got a potentially elite arm in Arodys Vizcaino.
Granted, circumstances have worked well for the Yankees, with the D-backs wanting to move Max, and the Braves needing to clear an arm.
he's 19 and in high a
yes he’s a good prospect, but he’s SOOOOOOO far away and attrition rates for pitchers are quite high
There’s something like a 60-80% chance the Braves net very little from this deal
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 22, 2009 9:27 AM CST up reply actions
no doubt attrition rates are quite high
but potentially high level/elite prospect arms are rarely moved (although this offseason is a bit of an exception with Kyle Drabek being moved … that said, I do think Drabek is being overrated a bit as of this moment). The Braves needed to clear salary. They got a passable starting OF to fill one hole, and they got an elite arm, along with a very good pen lefty prospect. All in all, this is a long vs. short deal, and the short easily goes to the Yankees. It might not pan out for the Braves, but I just don’t think they got manhandled when all factors are considered.
high level/elite prospect arms are rarely moved
when they’re at AA or beyond, this kid hasn’t pitched out of short season yet.
I get what you’re saying, but they just got one of the better pitchers in baseball without giving up anything they’d use in the next 3 years. That’s an easy decision to make
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 22, 2009 9:32 AM CST up reply actions
Even Worse
You’ll have to add another 2-3 more years when he might become even minimally effective at the major league level and leave the injury nexus. ARGH!
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 22, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions
Actually
Arodys played for Staten Island in the NY-Penn League which is a Rookie level league.
I agree with you completely otherwise. I hate this deal for the Braves.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 22, 2009 9:27 PM CST up reply actions
+1
It’s a stark contrast to the Cubs, who continue to exercise their financial prowess by following the 1980s Yankees model – building a team by overpaying mediocre veteran free agents.
by Jody Jody Davis on Dec 22, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
+1 No doubt, wish Hendry hadn't made so any stupid decisions
then we could be the one taking advantage of those same teams
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
I like it for Atlanta
but it makes a lot of sense for the Yankees. They get a much needed starter that can eat innings, allowing them to wait out the market for any remaining needs (my guess is that LF goes back to the top of their priorities and they may revisit Johnny Damon, just a guess). Yes, Javy struggled before there, but it’s a good gamble on their part, considering the remaining options in FA.
That said, Atlanta got Arodys Vizcaino in the deal. He’s a very, very good pitching prospect, a guy who, if he continues his success in the lower levels next year, may jump up to be an elite prospect. He has that much ability. Melky fills a hole for them in the OF, although he’s not the bat that they need, IMO. I also like the Dunn for Logan swap of pen lefties aspect. Dunn has potential late inning lefty stuff. The former starter brings it with a mid-90’s 4 seamer and a plus slider, along with 2 seamer and a changeup at his disposal.
Glad the Cubs didn't get Cabrera
He had the 5th worst OPS of AL outfielders last year.
For some reason people tend to overrate guys that are in Yankee pinstripes.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Dec 23, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
Looks like the Yankees won't provide the Cubs a CF
I’d doubt they’d trade Gardner now, especially if they’re not re-signing Damon. Gardner can be kept on as a cheap fourth outfielder. I never quite understood why so many BCBers thought the Yankees would trade such an inexpensive player — though I understood why Melky could be dealt.
I think it's more likely that the Yankees
go after an OF. I really am not sold on them starting Gardner in LF, although it is an idea. Actually, I half wonder if they revisit Johnny Damon. or … do they try a surprise play on a big of bat?
they're collecting
great talent at good prices, Granderson at 5, Vazquez at 11.5. My guess is they make a push for Bay or Holliday
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 22, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
derosa actually makes sense for them now
and the yankees could make sense for derosa now. They can hide him in LF and have him split time with Gardner, while perhaps getting Jesus Montero some LF time.
Of course, they could also go after Byrd.
Well I am sure Lowe is staying put.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
yeah
they had to clear one pitcher’s slot and get an OF, they’ve done that now.
Lowe would’ve been a trainwreck anyway, all his peripherals took a large step in the wrong direction last season and he’s very unlikely to pitch to the level of his contract. If i’m the Braves I would’ve traded Lowe in a salary dump before i would’ve made this deal
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 22, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
Two possible consequences for Cubbies
1) Will Jim Hendry call the Braves about Jordan Schafer?
2) The market for free agent CFs just got smaller by one team.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
i'd add
Brett Gardner is probably no longer an option through trade
and the Carlos Zambrano trade possibility is obviously dead
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 22, 2009 9:56 AM CST up reply actions
It's still possible to trade Z
but less likely to the Yankees. I don’t think it was every likely we would trade Z this off-season.
Yes, it does seem very unlikely Gardner is available apart from strong overpayment. That said, I think Schafer’s a more attractive option than Gardner.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Do you really think the Braves would trade him?
He probably would cost less (in terms of players) than Cabrera. You might be able to get him for Sean Marshall and a prospect.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I don't know.
It seems like they’ve soured on him. With Melky, McLouth, Diaz, and Heyward on the way, they don’t need him. The question is whether they’re going to try and get a lot for him – a former top prospect – or if they’re inclined to just move him on as we were with Pie.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
my guess is that they
will be inclined to wait. If Schafer taps into his potential, then he’s their best CF. Both Melky and McLouth are better off in a corner, IMO.
heyward?
won’t he play CF?
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 22, 2009 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
What about Infante?
Would the Braves part with him? While he’s never been an every day CF, it appears he can play the position.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Are you just baiting me -
since I can go off the deep end complaining that trading Infante to the Braves was the worst trade Jim Hendry ever made? :)
I think the Braves valued Infante more than Jim Hendry then and still do. They need a strong backup for Chipper and Infante gives them a guy who can play every position on the diamond when Chipper is healthy.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
the infante trade
can’t compete with the Juan Pierre trade… it can’t.
I covet Ricky Nolasco
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 22, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Not really.
I pulled up the Braves depth chart and it showed Infante as third on the depth chart at CF and the utility IF guy.
When I posted, I wasn’t thinking about the Ohman trade and Hendry giving Infante away in the offseason.
Still, is there anyway he could be pried away?
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
No one's untouchable
I just expect we’d need to pay more than would still make it reasonable for us.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Brett Gardner is now officially off the market
Gardner becomes the 4th outfielder on the Yankees in complement to Damon or Holliday in left, Granderson in center and Swisher in right. Plus Xavier Nady is still lurking in that organization.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
actually
early spec suggests the braves may still add an of bat.
Hey at least we won't have to face Vazquez opening day now!!!
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
You prefer Tim Hudson or Jair Jurrjens?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
To face as an opening-day starter...
I think I’d prefer Tim Hudson.
"Juuuuuuussst a bit outside. He tried for the corner and missed..."
- Harry Doyle
by Rusty in Peoria on Dec 22, 2009 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
yes, I'd take either of them, especially Hudson
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
Yankees made an outstanding trade
Javy Vazquez is on the final year of his contract, therefore not any sort of risk to become an albatross. Vazquez is also good for 200 innings and 32 starts. Not bad for a guy who will be counted upon as a 4th or 5th starter AND where you only had to give up Melkey Cabrera.
You have to guess the next shoe to drop in New York is the re-signing of Johnny Damon…or Matt Holliday.
This is yet another example of why the Yankees have 27 World Series Championships. They have singular focus on winning and do everything right…a sound and consistently productive farm system….they make smart trades and they aren’t afraid to smartly go after blue chip talent in free agency by offering the moon.
Meanwhile Chicago has its panties in a bunch over the impending arrival of Marlon Byrd as the signature offseason move.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Byrd would fill a need. Nothing more, nothing less.
I do like this move for the Yankees, though. Vazquez is a K machine – add him to CC and AJ and a veteran guy like Petite and…wow…pretty cool rotation. I understand Joba and Hughes will battle for the fifth spot…?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Joba is 5th starter, Hughes goes back to primary set-up man
Whenever the greatest relief pitcher in the history of the game retires (i.e., Mariano Rivera) then I can imagine that Joba is probably the next closer of the Yankees.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
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