Look At Me, I Can Be Center Field: Who Should Patrol CF For The Cubs in 2010?
by Al Yellon on Dec 27, 2009 8:00 AM CST
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PrintWith the trade of Milton Bradley (OK, I had to mention him for the purpose of this post) to the Mariners and the expected move of Kosuke Fukudome back to right field -- which should greatly improve the Cubs' outfield defense -- the Cubs need a center fielder for 2010. For all of you who think Marlon Byrd is "inevitably" going to fill that position, my opinion is: maybe not, and maybe there's a better answer than Byrd.
Byrd had a career year in 2009, something that's really good to have when you're entering free agency. He hit .283/.329/.479 (.808 OPS) with a career-high 20 HR and 89 RBI. Actually, some have argued, and they have a point, that Byrd actually had a better year in 2008 than in 2009, when he hit .298/.380/.462 (.842 OPS) with fewer HR and RBI, but more runs, more walks and fewer strikeouts. His OPS+ was 121 in 2008, 106 last year. He did hit 43 doubles in 2009; that ranked 8th in the American League. His 10 sacrifice flies led the AL, not that SF are a stat you'd want to argue is the best reason to sign a free agent.
Byrd is a decent player, but not one I'd like to shower with free-agent money; he'll be 33 next August and there is, I believe, a significant risk that he'd decline from his 2008-09 levels. The way Jim Hendry has thrown around contract money in the past, I'd be afraid we'd be stuck with a mediocre platoon CF in 2011 who was making $6 million.
One possible trade acquisition -- Melky Cabrera -- is already gone, dealt to the Braves from the Yankees. It might be worth it for the Cubs to investigate the reacquisition of Felix Pie, someone they never should have given up on in the first place. But there aren't a lot of other trade options, at least not ones that aren't expensive (sure, I'd like Aaron Rowand, but his contract is frighteningly large). Follow me after the jump for my admittedly temporary solution to the CF problem.
Here's what I'd do: re-sign Reed Johnson to a reasonable contract -- he'd probably take a bit less than market value to return to the Cubs -- and platoon him with Sam Fuld. Before you get out the pitchforks and tell me that Fuld is not a major league player, he actually acquitted himself quite well as a starter when pressed into service due to various injuries. In an admittedly small-sample-size 85 plate appearances vs. RHP, Fuld hit .296/.412/.380. (In fact, Fuld actually hit LHP better: .308/.400/.500, though that's an even smaller sample of 30 PA, and the SLG is that high because the one HR he hit was off a LHP.) Meanwhile, Johnson, as we know, hits lefthanders very well: .324/.403/.500 in 78 PA in 2009, .333/.399/.449 in 169 PA in 2008, and .313/.378/.463 for his career.
I believe a Fuld/Johnson platoon would provide at least adequate offense -- though with little power, which hopefully would be made up for by a healthy Alfonso Soriano and Aramis Ramirez, and a Geovany Soto closer to the 2008 model than the 2009 model -- and above-average defense.
And for the fifth outfielder spot, I'd give Tyler Colvin a shot. You know, eventually you've got to give your farm products a chance to produce. Colvin looked a little overmatched in his September callup, going 3-for-17, but he also played outstanding defense and he had put up decent offensive numbers in the minor leagues in 2009, going .286/.332/.480 -- and that in a year coming off Tommy John surgery. Plus, you wouldn't be asking Colvin to be a regular -- just be a defensive replacement, start once every couple of weeks, and hit off the bench, something he could work on during spring training.
Let's also remember that on May 14, 2008, Jim Edmonds got dropped into the Cubs' laps. Before that date the Cubs were 24-16 and of the 40 games played to that date, 24 had been started in CF by Johnson (hitting .256/.343/.331 through May 14), 15 by Felix Pie (hitting .222/.286/.286 through May 14), and one by Kosuke Fukudome (who went 0-for-4 in that April 11, 2008 game).
So CF was a black hole offensively at the time, and many of us scratched our heads at the Edmonds acquisition, because he had hit worse than Johnson or Pie for the Padres -- .178/.265/.233, numbers more reminiscent of Aaron Miles than a major league outfielder. I was one of the ones saying "Why Edmonds?" the loudest, and more than happy to say I was wrong when Edmonds put up .256/.369/.568 (.937 OPS) numbers for the Cubs with 19 HR and 49 RBI in 85 games. Edmonds was a big reason why the Cubs went 73-49 after he was acquired.
Now, at this time it's impossible to predict whether someone like Edmonds -- or anyone else -- would become available for trade during the season. But with potential savings of up to $6 million -- thanks to the Bradley trade -- why not hold that money in reserve and see who might be acquirable by trade in May or June, if a Fuld/Johnson platoon doesn't work? To me, that makes more sense than to make a knee-jerk move just to say you "did something". Sometimes, the best trades are the ones you don't make. This situation appears to be one of those times.
Finally, the Cubs need to get this done quickly, as there are other suitors for Johnson, including the Yankees. I wouldn't want to see the Cubs not be able to do this platoon, and then be stuck with a bad trade or signing, as they were in 2006 when "forced" to trade for Juan Pierre.
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I have two issues with this
And they both point back to Jimbo…..so our 1st round draft pick, Colvin, best hope is a 5th OF/PHer?
Reacquiring Pie? So we’re supposed to give up more pieces, no matter how small they might be, to get a guy back who we never gave a chance but had no problem dumping? So we’re gonna lose pieces to get back a piece Jimbo seemingly had no problem departing with?
How does this man still have a job?
Id go with the Reed Johnson/Warm Body platoon
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Oh these posts on making do with what we've got
aren’t going to play well with the people desperate to see the Cubs make a move – any move.
I’m happy with Johnson/Fuld/Colvin and I’d be happy to see Pie back. I really do believe Byrd will be another regrettable FA signing.
But I would like to see the Cubs put that extra money towards another starter.
The Cubs should look at all options.
Which I’m sure Hendry is doing. But we shouldn’t settle for a player. We have done that many times — like Al mentioned Juan Pierre. I am a fan of getting Felix Pie back, but only if the cost is reasonable.
Jim’s going to have to be creative here. Somewhat off-topic but someone I would love to “reaquire” would be Ricky Nolasco. We all know the Marlins are cheap and with them potentially trading Josh Johnson within the next year makes me wonder what they might want for Nolasco after a up and down year. Not only would I trade for him I would trade Silva for a journeyman hitter and just ask for 1 million in salary relief. Even if Silva returns to “form” he still might be a worse option than our in house guys.
Basically, I feel like Jim has alot of creative work to do and I hope we start to see some moves soon.
2010 is OUR year.
I'm sensing a pattern
Al, it’s as if the free-agent signings of the past few years have you believing that NO free agents can help us. I can respect your opinion that we shouldn’t spend money on Marlon Byrd or some middle-tier reliever — but I think that money STILL should be used. Wisely.
Rick Ankiel, in my mind, is worth a serious look. If he’s too expensive or not healthy enough, then the Cubs could use the CF money to upgrade at second, and prevent Mike Fontenot from getting too many at-bats. Dropping Fontenot on the depth chart also improves our bench.
I don’t want a team where Fuld gets 400 at-bats, where Fukudome is our fifth hitter — which likely will happen without a Byrd/Ankiel type — and where Mike Fontenot gets to disappoint us again. Out of the gate, that’s what you’re suggesting, Al.
You mention Jim Edmonds as a shining example of a Cubs’ midseason acquisition. I’d counter with Phil Nevin — whom the Cubs had to trade for when Lee went down in 2006. The point is, assuming the trade market will yield exactly what you need doesn’t always work.
by elgato on Dec 27, 2009 8:49 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Here's an example.
The Mets are apparently going to throw (approximately) $2 million at Kelvim Escobar. The D’backs are throwing about that much at Bob Howry.
Really? Why? We already did the Howry thing and Escobar has been hurt for two years.
I can see your point about using the money wisely — but to me, there doesn’t seem to be anyone out there worth using the money on, at least not right now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm with you on the bullpen
But what about Orlando Hudson? Or Kelly Johnson? Or Dan Uggla?
If we have to live with Fuld/Johnson in center, we could upgrade at second, couldn’t we?
Also, if Reed Johnson wants a multiyear deal, I don’t want him back.
About the three players you mention...
… I don’t want Hudson. If he’s so good, why did he sit during the playoffs? As for Uggla, he’d cost too much.
We already have Kelly Johnson. His name is Mike Fontenot.
I agree that Reed Johnson should not be given a multiyear deal.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Uggla's cost
You were all in favor of getting unproven Brett Gardner without knowing the cost. How do you know Uggla would be too expensive.
I see your point about Hudson. I’m just saying that we don’t have to sit on this money if we don’t improve in center — and we don’t have to wait until midseason to improve.
Uggla's probably going to hit 8 million at arbitration...
…and then we’d have to trade talent. Mariner talks with the Giants and O’s have hit dead ends because of the talent demands they want in return.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 27, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
Marlin, not Mariner....oops
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 27, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
Right.
There’s a huge difference between going after a young player (Gardner) with potential, who would cost little in dollars or players, and someone like Uggla.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
sure --
Gardner could cost MORE because the Yankees aren’t trying to shed his contract.
If he does, then you pass.
He wouldn’t cost more in dollars, in any case.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Just because Hudson wasn't playing at the end of the year for the Dodgers, doesn't mean
he’s not better than anything we’ve got. Especially if you can get him on a one year/4 mil type deal again.
If I remember correctly
Hudson didn’t play towards the end of the season and playoffs because he was having issues with a left wrist injury he suffered in July which affected his batting. His statline in 2009 was pretty solid overall. I’d take him for what he made last year. I’m trying to find a link.
Plus, he’s supposed to be a solid clubhouse guy…….
Overall yes, but he started super hot
and fell off the planet in the second half.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Hudson..
didn’t play in the playoffs because Joe Torre is a moron. Who wouldn’t want a 2B who can hit .280/.350/.430 and play gold glove defense?
I mentioned above he fall off in the second half.
He was all world the first two months, slumped in June, struggled back in July/August and hit like Bradley in 2009 in September. He could get on base, but slumped otherwise.
Aren’t there also rumors of Hudson’s impact on the clubhouse?
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Rec'd
Well put at every point.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
A few problems with this
1. I don’t think Colvin is ready for the majors, even he is “just a 5th outfielder”. I think it would be better for his development to play everyday at Iowa. Truth be told, I’m not sure what his future is. I don’t think it is as a starter, more likely as a reserve outfielder.
2. You say the Pierre trade was forced, but wouldn’t a trade in May/June for another outfielder because the Johnson/Fuld platoon didn’t work be one?
3. I’m not sure there would be a trading partner in May/June, unless the Cubs are willing to give up more than market value. Are you willing to give up Castro or Vitters for one? If that was too much for Granderson, wouldn’t it be too much for another CF? I haven’t looked to see who could be available, but it would likely be someone from a bad team as they are the only ones who might be willing to trade.
You can't know what the market will be like in midseason.
At the beginning of 2008, did you think we’d have a shot at Rich Harden? Or that Harden would even be available?
About the Pierre deal, remember that Hendry had put all his eggs in the Rafael Furcal at leadoff basket, and when Furcal went to the Dodgers, Hendry got desperate. Yes, the Cubs got lucky with Edmonds, but that doesn’t mean another deal would be “forced”.
In the RIGHT deal, yes, I’d give up Vitters — particularly if he could be part of a deal acquiring, say, Matt Kemp.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If Johnson/Fuld doesn't work out
any deal to find a replacement would be forced. If it becomes obvious that CF is one of the problem spots, then JH would be forced to make a deal to find some improvement from the position.
With the Harden trade, we weren’t forced to make any deal as the team was set pretty much everywhere. If a deal came along that worked, both in terms of the player we were receiving and the value we gave up, the deal was made. But that probably wouldn’t be the case here. A trade for another CF will only be done if it’s needed. Granted, we don’t know who’ll be available, but we also don’t know if a good enough replacement will be either.
As for Kemp, the only way he is traded is if the McCourt divorce gets really bad. At that point, I think MLB might force an ownership change. But that’s a different topic.
You're right, of course.
The point is, I think the Cubs might be able to go with this platoon for a while; who knows who might be available in May or June, who isn’t available now?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
No actually
we wanted Juan Pierre from the start. We actually wanted to get Furcal AND Pierre.
2010 is OUR year.
Ah, so one of your possible May/June scenarios is a divorce-driven collapse by the Dodgers?
I like it. Where do we get the voodoo dolls to make it happan?
Is this a joke?
Seriously Al, where are you going with this series? A day after you propose filling the bullpen with minor-league non-prospects as the best available alternative, you’re now suggesting giving Sam Fuld 400 – 500 major league at-bats?
I’m starting to feel like this is the Cubs version of the Politburo.
Got any other choices ...
… that don’t either cost a fortune or are washed-up players? Let’s hear ’em.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Edmonds did a good job.
I’m not convinced Ankiel would; that’s why I don’t want him, not because he’s an ex-Cardinal.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
what's your logic?
I agree we shouldn’t overpay for Ankiel, but he could solve SO many issues.
Ankiel had a bad year last year...
… I know, due to injuries. But he is also 30 years old, no kid. I don’t see him as a magic solution.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
check out his shoulder ...
if it’s OK, offer him two years, $15 million. Put him in center, hit him fifth or sixth.
And, at 30, he would be one of the Cubs younger starters.
If his shoulder checks out, why not?
I’d rather spend that money on Ankiel than Byrd, who’s older, hits right handed and doesn’t really have a natural spot in the lineup — even considering that Byrd hits right handers well.
I don't want either one of those guys for that money.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
would you have paid Cameron that much?
I think you were OK with one year at $8 million. If Ankiel’s healthy, I think he has a much bigger upside.
if his health doesn't check out ...
don’t sign him. That’s why players take physicals before being signed.
Even if he's healthy, no one else is going to pay Ankiel
7.5 mil per season. He’ll be lucky to get a contract in the 5 mil range. I don’t mind signing Ankiel if he’s the best solution, but no way you offer him that much.
He's got Boras for an agent
I could see him getting that much. Anyway, I’d rather have Ankiel at that price than Byrd.
He probably does have a higher upside
but is much more of a crapshoot. Cameron is pretty consistent- you know what you’re getting for your 8 million.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
Well most of those years were as a pitcher
its not as if he spent the past 8 years crashing into to outfield walls or diving head first into second….his mileage is relatively low for a player his age.
Id rather take the gamble with Ankiels power and arm in the outfield than rely on another OF coming off a career year in a band box.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
you have..
..an obsession with age. It’s annoying.
We Got This!
by cubbiebear316 on Dec 28, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
Like Jim Edmonds?
We only got burned once. Why not Ankiel?
I'd give Ankiel a shot
Give him a one year deal so he can “bounce” back and hit the FA market again. No way does he get anywhere near Cameron money. Cameron has been tremendously consistant over the years and Ankiel has literally been all over the place. I did see somewhere where they think Jaramillo can add 30 points to Ankiel’s average.
The other option no one is discussing is Jim Edmonds himself. My understanding is he did not retire out of want but that no one called. I know he didn’t play last year, but I thought I read somewhere that he has kept in playing shape.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Dec 27, 2009 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
I believe
that I read somewhere late in the year that his agent said that Edmonds had moved on to other pursuits. Would he consider returning if someone came alling? Perhaps. That said, I doubt the Cubs revisit that.
I agree.
Last year, Edmonds might have been a good choice. But he will be 40 in June, and hasn’t played in over a year. Time to move on.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I wish we'd had Edmonds last year
That might have been enough to keep the sucking sound called the Gameboard from entering the picture.
And the Jim Edmonds Fan Club has never been the same.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
Not sure...
You keep going around this circle, so I really don’t think there’ much of a point. You seem to think that most if not all trade targets are washed up, and free agents all cost a fortune, so I don’t know.
I think you got some really good feedback yesterday on this from other posters, actually. Kiki Calero and D.J. Carrasco could help a club, cheaply. I was high on Saito and Capps when they were out there, both of which didn’t cost much more than the Cubs paid John Grabow. Right now, I think Danys Baez could be work a look, and that’s just off the non-tender/free agent list.
Give Sam Fuld 450 ML at-bats? Pass. If the Cubs are that desperate, I start looking at some serious alternative idea. I wouldn’t touch Byrd, but at that point, I’d look at Rick Ankiel, sure. Maybe I try to pry Nick Swisher out of New York, and leave Fukudome in center for a bit longer. See if the Diamondback want to sell low on Chris Johnson. Hell, I’d try and pluck Ryan Raburn out of Detroit and give him the job before I went there. There are months left before Spring Training, with dozens of teams still trying to improve their respective clubs. I don’t think Jim Hendry is stupid; figure it out.
The thing is, the club as composed isn’t all that competitive. Standing pat isn’t going to make them any more competitive, no matter how you try and spin it. Baseball is a meritocracy, so if these guys are any good, they’ll probably get their chances in the end. But that doesn’t mean that it’s in the club’s best interest to count on those contributions.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 27, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
Some of those ideas are intriguing.
But again, I don’t want to make moves just to make moves. Look at where that got us a year ago.
We need to make the RIGHT moves. Right now I don’t see any, but that doesn’t mean that some of the moves you suggest might not work.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And sorry...
I’m watching the football shows at the moment; I meant Chris Young, not Chris Johnson.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 27, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
LOL
Chris Young? Really? He was awful last year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's why they
call it, ""Buying low".
Just because a player had a bad season doesn’t mean that they’re finished. And more to my point, if you gave me the option of Fuld or Young, yes, I’d still take Young.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 27, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
It's a solid buy low option
There was a fangraphs article on him, but his peripherals were going in all sorts of directions. There’s enough to ponder that he might bounce back. I wouldn’t deal for Young as a starter, though, and I wouldn’t deal too much for him either, as he could very well collapse, but it’s an idea that I’m warming to. I’m just not sure that, after the 2nd half he had, that the Diamondbacks will want to move him just yet.
I'm with Damen on this on.
Simply ridding ourselves of of MB and Miles isn’t going to win us the division. The team’s hopes can’t be placed on simply a return to form from Soto and Soriano and an injury free season from the rest. No serious contenders are talking themselves in to the season being a success on the same premise – “our players will just do better this time” – why the hell should we?
I get your point – don’t make moves for the sake of making moves. And you are right, there is the chance that we might be happy with what we find if we give our own guys a chance. But that being said, these are the same guys that were around last season, and hoping we’ll catch 2008 in a bottle seems foolhardy, as its just as likely we’ll get another serving of 2009.
I said at the time that i was ok with the Bradley for Silva swap, only because of the $6 million gained. I think you even agreed, that its likely Silva would be just un-useful as Burell or anybody else would have been, but that $6 million could be useful. Now you advocate not spending it on one of our major problems from last year, the bullpen, and our most glaring hole, the outfield?
I don’t think i could possibly put this any better than my buddy Albert: “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
We’ve been doing this Lee + Sori + Rami + Some Other Dudes thing repeatedly for a few years now. It would be insane to expect it to work this time. This is why many of us liked the Dome signing, liked the MB signing, liked Edmonds… sure, we weren’t bringing in a Pujols or Manny or anything, but we were getting guys with different perspectives, different attitudes, different skill sets and different bases of experience. We were mixing it up in new and interesting ways, trying to get over the hump / break the curse / find the perfect clubhouse guy / do SOMETHING to get better. Returning to the field with the same group (minus a few irrelevant pieces and one productive malcontent) as 2009 and just hoping we’ll be better isn’t going to work out.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 27, 2009 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
Sori + Lee + Rami + others worked in 2008.
And yes, we failed in the playoffs. But we won 98 games. There is no magical formula for winning in the playoffs other than being good and catching a little luck.
by cubsforever on Dec 27, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
I understand that.
I SAID i understand that. I’m just saying, you aren’t hoping to “catch a little luck” if you return in 2010 with the same lineup as you took in to 2009 and 2008, you are hoping to “catch a lot of luck”.
The team, today, is worse than it was at the start of 2009. Its also a year older. Standing pat isn’t going to fix any of that. I’m generally accused of being drunk on kool-aid and wearing my rose-colored glasses here, and i’m amazed i’m one of seemingly only a few here who aren’t flabbergasted at the idea of not putting some money towards two of the three most obvious weak spots of this team – the bullpen and center field.
I’m not sure why we ditched Bradley for a nearly worthless pitcher if we weren’t going to use the $6 million that came that worthless pitcher to replace some of the talent we ditched in MB.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 27, 2009 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
Well what other option is there in CF
thats gonna bear fruit in the next two years? None really, so I could live with Ankiel for 2 years and hope that Jackson can be ready around 2012 or ‘13, if he’s a CF at all.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I nominate myself to play CF in 2010
Last year, I hit close to .700 in my softball league, had no errors, and even made a couple diving catches. Plus, I’d only cost the Cubs a few hundred thousands.
All in favor?
Chicagoan in the Lou.
I've heard you're a clubhouse problem....
What else you got? :)
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 27, 2009 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
Mike's never been able to tolerate the presense of a gatoraid machine.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 27, 2009 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
It… should… come… in… JUGS!!!!!!!
Chicagoan in the Lou.
by Mike Martin on Dec 27, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
TWHS...
… too easy.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 27, 2009 9:41 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
I don’t think the cubs need to invest heavy money in a free agent center fielder. If Soto/Rammy/Soriano/Lee are healthy and play like they should, they we can give up a lil pop in the offense in centerfield. I much rather have the cubs save their money for a mid-sesaon trade or even in some starting pitching.
If Soto/Rammy/Soriano/Lee are healthy and play like they should
That’s the rub right there.
Chicagoan in the Lou.
that's right.
if they play like they should, the Cubs will be in trouble. If they all play as well as they can, the Cubs will contend for a playoff spot. The problem is the latter isn’t very likely.
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Dec 27, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
Any chance you
and your editor can get on the same page with that thesis?
by Damen Jackson on Dec 27, 2009 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
Why isn't it likely that all four of those will play well?
We know Ramirez should; he was hurt half of the year, and still put up good numbers.
Soriano was also hurt last year — I see no reason he can’t hit like he did in 2007 and 2008.
The real wild card is Soto.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Why don't you confer
with your stat man on this one instead?
by Damen Jackson on Dec 27, 2009 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
the problem is Al
is that you are betting on all of these thing happening in the same year. And even if they do we still wont be a juggernaut but just another decent team.
The Cubs need help plain and simple.
by CalCalender on Dec 27, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
A year ago...
… would you have bet that all those things would have gone wrong at the same time?
What help would you get?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I don't expect all four to play as well as they can
That said, there simply aren’t that many options that are that exciting that can fit within our budget. For all the talk about Byrd or Ankiel helping to support the 2nd half of the lineup, Baker could perhaps do that as well, if not better than, those guys. There’s limited places that we can look for guys – 3 spots at best (CF, if you want to revisit Kosuke in CF then RF is an option, and 2nd base perhaps). There isn’t a catcher that I really want.
The Cubs OF defense will be better with Fukudome in RF.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I agree
simply saying that there’s limited options where people could look for a bat if they believe more middle of the order help is needed.
Please, not Marlon Byrd
Nice guy.. decent offensive player.. not any improvement over Fukodome in the field. And now, let the catcalls and jeers about my ignorance begin, as they do when I annually make this plea for the Cubs not to sign Texas Rangers who are lacking in some sort of important way.
Where is Mick Kelleher when we need him?
by 3744nsheffield on Dec 27, 2009 10:00 AM CST reply actions
like Mark DeRosa?
Besides MB, what other former Rangers have we signed?
You really don't know?
In any case, it doesn’t matter to me what team another player came from, as long as he can contribute to the Cubs.
That said, I still don’t want Byrd.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
coughgameboardcough...
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 27, 2009 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
Um "Besides MB"
Did you and Al not read that?
lol....obviously, yes....
my bad
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 27, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Oops.
I missed that, too.
But my point stands. I don’t dismiss a player just because of who he used to play for.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
totally agree
That was the point I was trying to make.
I think it is valid b/c that stadium is so conducive to offense
and in Bradleys case he did most of that production as a DH, Byrd just isnt that good a player for what he seemingly wants in terms of $$, and some of his stats, particularly OBP, have varied widely over the past few seasons.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
better hurry
be tough to turn down the world champs. everyone is worried abouy cf butdid anyone look at what a terrible bench we have. be carefull with these guys having carreer years because bradley tore up the a.l. im ok with reed rather than giving byrd a huge contract. is sam fuld the next pie? give the guy a chance or get rid of him. with this win now attitude none of our young players get a chance.guess what? we dont win anyways.
Any Baldeli
love. If Johnson signs elsewhere Baldeli would be worth a risk. I am not a big Ankeil guy.
There really is not a market unless Jimbo pulls a trade to get a better upgrade than what the free agent market has to offer, which is not much.
Can Baldelli play back to back games yet?
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 27, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions
I think I'd rather have Baldelli than RJ
but I don’t have a full handle on what he can and can’t do, so I’ll leave that to other teams. All that said, the point of Baldelli is that players who can do what RJ does are not that hard to get your hands on. We don’t need to worry about missing out on RJ. After all, RJ was a late cut from his team when we got him in the first place. We just might find RJ’s replacement the same way.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
baldelli is extremely fragile and unhealthy
ofcourse, so is johnson…
Eric Hanna and FAN of the BULLS, the two greatest BCBers in the history of mankind
by jesus christos on Dec 27, 2009 4:18 PM CST up reply actions
Randy Winn?
On an incentive-laden 1 year deal?
I know, down year last year and he’s old as dirt…..but I’ve always liked Winn and I don’t think he’d be a horrible platoon in CF. You know, if we end up beggars and not choosers.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 27, 2009 10:19 AM CST reply actions
defensively probably
At the plate? I doubt it.
Look at his splits against RH's though
He was just scary against Lefties last year. And a year removed from a pretty good season in 08.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 27, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe, I have no idea what kind of money he's looking for...
Arizona, Kansas City and earlier Atlanta were interested.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 27, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
Let's not forget
that Winn was traded for Piniella. Ouch.
Numbers may not lie, but they don’t tell the whole truth (and nothing but the truth), either. -- Doug Glanville
I'd rather have the experience...
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 27, 2009 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
Which is odd
since I think Winn would be an upgrade on RJ – the problem is that Winn’s swing from the right side collapsed last year, and I’d want to know if there was an explanation before getting him. It could just be small sample sizeitis.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Just not Podsednik
The rumors I’ve seen of the Cubs interest is, frankly, startling. This would be a major mistake. He had a nice rebound year last year but really, he’s a year or so removed from truly horrific seasons.
Not to mention Soriano in left and Pods in CF would be an absolute nightmare
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
The more I think about it...
the more I like the idea of Rick Ankiel. The guy busted his ass to become an everyday major league player after flaming out as a pitcher. I love that kind of work ethic. In 2008, his OPS was .843. That’s solid for a center fielder. Yeah, his numbers were a little down last year. But he was hurt. And he ran head first into a freaking wall. He’s lucky he wasn’t paralyzed after that. Dude is a very good hitter, and he has an absolute cannon for an arm. I vividly remember when he gunned a strike from dead center to third base to throw a runner out. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a CF-er with an arm like that?
If Hendry still has his left handed hitter boner, then Ankiel solves that. Forget this Sam Fuld idea and stop wasting breaths talking about terrible baseball players like Scott Podsednik. Sign Ankiel, and then bring Reed back to platoon with him. That’s ideal in my opinion.
Rick Ankiel
sucks. Plan and simple. The league figured him out and he can’t hit anymore. I would want Sam Fuld any day of the week over that guy.
by CalCalender on Dec 27, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
+ 10000
Edmonds brought it.
Ankiel just won’t.
And someone thought Ryan Freel would be the answer to Mark DeRosa.
Ah Cubs, you are rueing the day …
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
Barring a creative trade
(and no, I dont mean a trade for Brett Gardner) the best move to make is the obvious one- Marlon Byrd. He will be a 2-3 WAR player and shouldn’t cost that much in this market.
A Johnson/Fuld platoon would give us weak spots at SS, 2B and CF. Keep Fuld as the 4th OF if you want but a full season of that platoon would be tough to watch.
by CalCalender on Dec 27, 2009 10:59 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Name I haven't seen... From SI
The Cubs clearly aren’t blown away by any of the center fielders on the free agent market, preferring to explore trades. One name to file away is Fernando Perez. Speedy, bright and the holder of a .375 minor league on-base percentage, the Rays switch hitter, 27 in April, would be an interesting gamble complicated because he is recovering from shoulder surgery.— SI
Go Cubs. Go Irish.
"I was in awe every time I walked on to the field." -- Ryne Sandberg
"No player in baseball history worked harder, suffered more, or did it better than Andre Dawson. He's the best I've ever seen." -- Ryno
by ctinsley12bsu on Dec 27, 2009 11:04 AM CST via mobile reply actions
That was from a Phil Rogers article
I think. It’s an interesting idea, although it would be far on the backburner for me, particularly since he’s rehabbing. Perez is a very aggressive swinger at the plate, despite his limited skillset.
How about Ellsbury
I heard in a Tribune report that there are rumors that if the red sox sign bay or holliday and go after adrian gonzalez, the cubs could be part of a 3 team deal with the padres and the red sox. The cubs would have to part with a top prospect but in return would receive jacoby ellsbury. Again this is just a rumor.
I'm fine with the move
That said, I don’t expect it, and I’m fairly certain the Cubs will add someone to the mix.
Yes, Fuld has limitations. Everyone points to Fuld’s limitations. I’m more than aware of them. I haven’t been advocating for Fuld to get more AB’s this offseason because I think he’s some sort of multi-year answer. It’s more a situation of fit, need, poor FA options, and limited resources. It’s not as if Fuld has a pedestrian track record up the minors. In regards to fit/need, he potentially could kill two of our needs. With good range and a plus arm, I believe he would be an upgrade in CF. I think he’s got enough bat that, when combined with his plus discipline and solid speed, that he could potentially fill a hole at the top of the order and be more than a Pierre/Podsednik type of player.
The rest of the options just aren’t appetizing to me. I don’t want Rick Ankiel to be the main option to anything. I’m not sold on his glove for CF, but more importantly, a guy that reaches so much bothers me. There’s likely enough of a statistical case to believe that he could turn it around and be a useful bat, but I’m not too excited for that. If he’s brought in as the backup or to platoon with someone else, okay. I mean … we essentially have a Rick Ankiel in Tyler Colvin. The issue with Marlon Byrd is more what type of contract he can get. As a stopgap, it’s passable enough. That said, this isn’t a guy I’m going to be screaming for. Scott Podsednik? No way do I want him. Doesn’t seem like the Yankees will move Brett Gardner, and I’ve noted my issues with such a trade before, even though I wouldn’t be angry over it. Who else is out there? Randy Winn? I’ll pass. Upgrading the OF defense doesn’t mean we need a defensive stud in CF, as the benefit of Kosuke to RF is quite a bit, but we can’t have someone as bad as Winn in CF. I wouldn’t be against Rocco Baldelli in a platoon. So, why not give Fuld a shot, in a platoon, and see if he could address two needs at once?
Anyhow, I don’t expect that to happen. I think the Cubs view Reed Johnson as a depth OF and they aren’t ready to give Sam Fuld any more than limited AB’s at the start of the year since this will be a make or break year for the management. Maybe Lou eventually heads down that road, but it won’t happen now. I still think this is headed towards a Marlon Byrd signing as the “main” CF with a dash of Sam Fuld on the side. They’ll explore other options, but as long as Byrd doesn’t go crazy and expect Mike Cameron level money (and he shouldn’t – I anticipate something like a 2/10 to 2/12 type signing … don’t like it, but I could stomach it, provided it’s not an odd breakdown) I think the Cubs will keep Tyler Colvin in AAA to get AB’s (he had to be put on the 40 man this offseason anyways).
Rec'd for
this especially:
we essentially have a Rick Ankiel in Tyler Colvin.
I tend to agree. I also think it’s worth pointing out that Fuld’s backwards splits aren’t just in a small sample size. He’s been trending that way in the minors, too. Having a Fuld/RJ platoon continues the L/R unbalanced roster, which is an issue, even if it wasn’t the issue Piniella made of it the past two years. Byrd, on the other hand, also has reverse splits; I believe it was Andronicus who pointed out that Byrd would project to be our best hitter against RHP.
I’ve come around to the idea that Byrd is the best FA choice on the market for us, but I’d limit what I’d pay for him and I’d also be investigating trade situations. There are enough teams with more than one CF that we should be able to snag one of them.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Toonsterwu... Your right ...
That was from a Phil Rogers article/idea… Speculation on Fernando Perez.
Go Cubs. Go Irish.
"I was in awe every time I walked on to the field." -- Ryne Sandberg
"No player in baseball history worked harder, suffered more, or did it better than Andre Dawson. He's the best I've ever seen." -- Ryno
by ctinsley12bsu on Dec 27, 2009 11:21 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Sorry to repeat myself (again)
but Fuld and Johnson would play center like their hair was on fire. Both would be playing for their career and the energy would be fabulous to have in this clubhouse, saying nothing about how much fun they would be to watch.
I’m with Al on this one
Numbers may not lie, but they don’t tell the whole truth (and nothing but the truth), either. -- Doug Glanville
Well said............I totally agree.
Hey Lou, we're long overdue.
by deadcatbounce on Dec 27, 2009 7:47 PM CST up reply actions
+ 10000
At this point, I have to agree with Al. A platoon would be good.
Fuld, of course, brings the scrappy factor.
And Reed – he can take one for the team any time to win the game.
Why are we discussing this, Jimbo .. GET IT DONE.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
I wouldn't mind a Fuld/Johnson center field if we could sign Tejada.
That would really improve our defense up the middle. Theriot belongs at 2nd base. But I’m afraid Hendry doesn’t see it that way.
who is improving our
middle infield defense? Tejada???
by CalCalender on Dec 27, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
Keep it in context
Some of you guys are making these suggestions in a vaccuum. The reality is this…if the Cubs believe they have a short window of opportunity to “contend” with the core group of guys they have, and I believe that to be their thinking right now, then you sign a Marlon Byrd to play CF.
On the other hand, if you are like Baltimore and trying to rebuild, you let Fuld and perhaps a lower budget option like Johnson platoon in CF.
I’m afraid the Cubs are caught in the middle. They are trying to convince themselves that injuries were really the root of their issues a year ago rather than the declining skills of a few core players. Byrd is probably not the best option given the money he’ll end up getting and I don’t believe anyone can argue that Fuld/Johnson is even remotely close to a CF situation that will lead anyone to the playoffs.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
What do you do if you think the team could contend but also might not?
Because, remember, this team has the trade chips to land a big mid-season acquisition if they’re in it. The roster we start the season with is not the roster we’d enter October with.
In that situation, I think you really like to take a look at a buy-low option, like Chris Young, if he’s available, but you can also make a case for a limited contract to Byrd, who lets you take your shot and doesn’t handicap you long-term.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I'm going to dream a little and pretend Jim will land...
Jacoby Ellsbury. Any seconds?
"Some guys make lemonade out of lemons. Hendry makes hash out of prime meat."
Sure, if....
… you want to believe that the Red Sox are going to give away an all-star entering his prime. Why not.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
Exactly...
We’d first be required to get Boston to flip him to the Bucs so Hendry would consider it.
"Some guys make lemonade out of lemons. Hendry makes hash out of prime meat."
well...
an “all-star” who sucks at defense. (in CF anyway)…
Though he is a former Beaver, so I still like him.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 27, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
An all-star?
Ellsbury has played league-average offense the last two years. The gaudy SB totals inflate his value. He looks like a slightly better version of Scott Podsednik.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And that is exactly why Boston would trade Ellsbury -
because his perceived value is higher than his actual value when they have Mike Cameron on board.
Here’s a question. If you were Boston’s management and planned to play both Ellsbury and Cameron for the next two years, how would you arrange them in the OF? It’s a no-brainer that Cameron’s the CF. And yet the Sox have named Cameron the LF, even as they have a LF in Hermida who hits as well as Ellsbury and with a higher ceiling…
Now that Boston has acquired Cameron, trading Ellsbury makes too much sense.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
It's time for the Cubs to start going younger and giving the farm a chance to produce.
The purse strings are tied… we’re not going to spend any significant money in free agency. And any veteran position player we acquire will just be a stop-gap solution anyway. So… let the kids battle it out, and you might be rewarded with a pleasant surprise.
Plus, we sorely lack team speed and plus defense up the middle (SS 2B CF). Youth can only improve that area.
Re-Sign Reed Johnson, as Al suggests… to give you some depth, experience, and clubhouse leadership. And let the kids battle it out for some spots. Fuld, Colvin, and our most recent top draft pick Brett Jackson could wind up being in the mix at CF. It would be rare for kid like Jackson to get a shot this early, but look at the other side of town and you see another college player, Gordon Beckham, becoming a starter last year for the Sox, just one year after being drafted.
At the middle infield find a spot for Andres Blanco on this team as a role player and give Starlin Castro, Darwin Barney, and Tony Thomas a legitimate chance to earn a roster spot.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
We might be rewarded...
or more likely we would really suck. Most if not all of those current minor leaguers guys aren’t even remotely ready.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 27, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
We did.
Review 2006.
The farm didn’t produce. The Cubs farm system has had some serious misfires the past few years, with a few notable exceptions.
If the Cubs are going to claw their way back into contention in 2010, it’s going to be – as the team appears to be organized – with the aging veterans fighting to repeat their 2008 form and a combination of utility men and whatever kids we can use who will play like heck. There’s no huge need for massive rebuilding, and yet, there’s every need to get more quality players in the dugout. I’m just not that convinced we have some who are going to produce next year, although the prospects we’ve mentioned in this thread – as always – are promising.
Paying out the kind of ridiculous money we’ve done, however, isn’t possible anymore. The skimpy FA market hasn’t helped either. The scrappiness factor and the hunger of youth is what I’d like to see in spring training this year.
What I don’t want to see is the kind of train wreck among them that is Geo Soto’s legacy the past three years. He was the ravening farm kid burning up AAA ball in 2007, became the monster rookie in 2008, and immediately floundered in 2009 and was virtually a non factor last year. That’s what I’m talking about. I hope Geo bounces back huge this year, but I’m glad Koyie is still around.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
I've been thinking about the reasons to keep Reed Johnson
He’ll probably cost around $2 million or $3 million a year — and the Cubs only have about $8 million (or so) to spend. In Al’s scenario, Reed would be the right-handed part of the platoon with Fuld, meaning he’d start about twice a week.
So, we’re going to spend 25 percent or more of our limited payroll flexibility on a guy who will play, at most, twice a week, isn’t great defensively and has an injury history?
For those of you who say Rick Ankiel isn’t worth $7.5 million a year, how in the HELL is Reed Johnson worth $2 million or $3 million?
Gotta go for a LH hitter
All the hand wringing last year over losing DeRosa because Cubs wanted to get more left-handed and played Fontenot and signed Bradley was misguided.
The concept was correct—just look at all the left-handed hitters Philly and the Yankees had in lineup in the last World Series. You need a more balanced attack than the Cubs have had, with Fulkudome as their only LH regular. It’s something they and we posters/fans need to keep in mind as Cubs make moves in next few years (with emergence of Castro a LH hitter and need to possibly replace D-Lee at first). It’s why we need to keep Hoffpaur for bench strength and as insurance in RF/1B/PH—he’s a left handed hitter with pop, something we desperately need.
I hope they get a LH hitter whether it’s Fuld, Ankiel or whoever, not a RH hitter like Byrd. They need to sign both, a lefty and a righty, because Fukudome can’t hit lefties worth a lick.
Agreed for the most part
Just because MB flamed out doesn’t mean the concept was the wrong one, just that we picked the wrong guy. I’d be interested in seeing how much money Ankiel would want. I disagree about Hoff though; I think his cup of coffee is empty.
Criteria are simple -- left handed, decent defensively and not too expensive
That really limits things. Which leads me to now believe that Rick Ankiel is the most likely target.
Jacob Ellsbury? Too many things would have to fall in place for Boston, plus Theo Epstein would want major-league ready or proven talent in return. Unless Hendry is prepared to offer up Aramis Ramirez or Derrek Lee, then I don’t see anything happening with Boston, a team in win-now mode.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
we really should
start a collection of BLou nonsense. Aramis Ramirez for Jacoby Ellsbury? Really?
Think before you write
Reading is fundamental. What I said in clear terms is that Boston is not going to trade Jacob Ellsbury for far-flung prospects. Rather they are going to want major league defined or major league ready return talent for Ellsbury. Red Sox are in win-now mode. The Jay Jacksons and Andrew Cashners of the world hold little appeal to Theo Epstein.
So if you really want Ellsbury then you had better be willing to trade up something they really would be interested in….like Ramirez or Lee.
Thanks for playing out game.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Listen fuckwit
You don’t know a damn thing about Theo Epstein or what he thinks. If you seriously believe that the GM of the Red Sox wouldn’t trade a player for a group of good prospects then you belong in the looney bin. Boston already has Cameron and Drew. They could easily pay for Hoilliday or Bay and then Ellsbury becomes available. Smart GM’s like Epstein are always looking to improve the team and if the Cubs offered the right deal Theo would take it.
But then again why am I arguing with the moron who pined for Ceasar Izturis?
by CalCalender on Dec 27, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
OK, knock off the namecalling.
You can disagree with people here without that. Not acceptable.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
kind of like the time
He called Sue a cunt? Was that acceptable?
or the time
he said Milton Bradley would end up like other angry black men, either dead or in jail?
No, neither of those was acceptable...
… and I admonished him more than once and banned him for the first of your examples.
But you calling him names reduces you to his level. You’re smarter than that, at least I think you are.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
To my knowledge,
That incident occurred at Windy City Gridiron, not here. Which means Al could not have taken any action whatsoever regarding that name-calling episode.
While I agree it was overboard, it was not under Al’s control. The only people who could have done something about that incident were Dane Noble and/or Adam T, the two site moderators at Windy City Gridiron.
Bound for New York City: January 6-9! Can't wait!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 28, 2009 12:11 AM CST up reply actions
It did happen here a few
years ago. Al banned him at the time.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Wrong answer
But thanks for the wondrous insight on how Theo Epstein would so willingly trade a quality player like Jacob Ellsbury for longer-term prospects. Apparently it torques you when somebody splashes reality on top of a hair-brained trade scenario which has as its fundamental underpinning Boston’s great desire to trade a young and talented outfielder to the Cubs for a bag of magic beans.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
it
torques me every time you type something here. Both because you are perhaps the stupidest poster in the history of the blog and also because you a grade A dick.
Sigh...
I tire of having to help the board challenged keep up. Get back to me when you have at least a minimal grasp of major league baseball.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
DO you still think that the Cubs and Nationals will finish with identical records in 2010?
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
As things stand right now I don't see a whole lot of difference in the win-loss record of the 2010 Nats vs Cubs
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
And is there anything besides your pessimism that supports this "theory"?
Bound for New York City: January 6-9! Can't wait!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 27, 2009 11:21 PM CST up reply actions
oh please BLou
dumb it down for me so I can understand your wisdom! But before you do that why don’t you explain your unified theory on the brilliance of Ceasar Izturis for me one more time….
Socrates chimes in...
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Here's the deal for BOTH of you.
If you think the other person has a bad idea, say so and refute it with facts. But calling the other person names, particularly profane ones, solves nothing.
Thank you.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Let see
BLou loved Izturis, loved the MB signing ( until he went south last April), Marlon Byrd signing was inevitable, now Ankiel. So what is the flavor this hour.
Listen the Cubs are in a bind we all know that. To think that you know what Epstien will trade for or not, is nuts. Red Sox have Ellsbury, Cameron, Drew and Hermdia. SO who is to say if they land Bay or Holiday they don’t make Ellsbury available.
Cal's going off the reservation a bit with his anger
nothing personal Cal, but I think he’s got you beat on this one in terms of what Theo might do. I’ll defend you in some fashion if you are right BLou (as noted in a previous back and forth we had, there are some of your points I’ve never challenged because there is good validity and reasoning to it), but there is every reason that
a) If they deal for Adrian
or
b) if they sign Bay or Holliday
That they would want prospects in return.
sorry, that meant to say (in case there's any confusion)
nothing personal Cal. I do think Cal’s got BLou beat on this in that, I don’t think it’s impossible that Theo would want prospects, and it might actually be his preferred route.
I'm with you, toonster.
If they did sign a free agent OF, they could definitely trade Ellsbury for prospects.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The more I read
The more it sounds Boston is keeping Ellsbury for the trade in the future with Padre’s for Adrian Gonzales . But then again we have no knowledge on the Prospects that San Diego is asking for . Maybe Boston knows already from talks that the Padre’s GM does not want Ellsbury .. IMO I sure wish the Cubs had the resources to pick up Gonzales .He is only 27 .. I know DLEE is a fan favorite here ,but you have to admit the core of the Cubs is getting older . Would love to have Adrian Gonzales at firstbase for the next 8 years .
AG would be an interesting addition, but....
What would the Cubs do with Lee? San Diego wouldn’t want him – they are working to lower payroll. And with the anounced budget, the Cubs wouldn’t be in the market for both sigining Gonzalez and paying a big chunk of Lee’s contract. The only way would be to involve a third team, but why wouldn’ t that team also prefer Gonzalez to Lee? (No slam to Lee but 27 vs. 34 is pretty hard math.)
And that’s not to mention that I think Lee has a NTC in his contract.
Option c)
Hendry makes an offer Boston can’t refuse by overpaying significantly. And all of these are legitimate possibilities.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Boston's system
I really like their system, but as Theo himself has noted this offseason, there’s a gap in their system. If they deal for Adrian Gonzalez, there’s a very good chance they might want young talent from another organization, guys they aren’t as invested in, to make a deal. Or they might want young talent to replace the talent they lose – akin to what Ruben Amaro did in the Lee trade. IF they sign Bay or Holliday, there is av ery good chance that Theo may want to fill the gaps in his system. He could use another upper elvel arm or two, particularly perhapsa Cashner type, which he could utilize to allow them to move Jon Papelbon if he so desired (and having Cashner/Bard in the pen). If he does deal Ellsbury as a result (probably), that would likely be for prospects (unless they land said pen arm.
Again, reading is fundamental
The only thing that might interest Boston for Jacob Ellsbury is something of quality and immediate value. Aramis Ramirez and Derrek Lee are the only Cubs who I think would hold attraction to Theo Epstein. So if people are silly enough to suggest Ellsbury is a likely option for the Cubs then my return lob is to say that you better be prepared to pony up Ramirez or Lee in a package deal. Because that is the only way Ellsbury is coming to Chicago. Ramirez for Ellsbury straight up? Of course not. But it would take Ramirez (or maybe Lee) to get Epstein’s attention.
Is a deal for Ellsbury going to happen for the Cubs? Not a snowball’s chance in hell.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Reading is fundamental.
i must admit, i found this pretty funny
Eric Hanna and FAN of the BULLS, the two greatest BCBers in the history of mankind
by jesus christos on Dec 27, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
Again
a) the point that has been made is that there is a good chance that they might want prospects to swing in a deal for Adrian Gonzalez if San Diego isn’t as enthused about Ellsbury as some believe.
b) If they land Holliday or Bay, they might want some upper level pitching. As Theo noted himself, there’s a gap in their system right now. Their top prospects (Westmoreland and KElly) are both raw youngsters that are a few years away.
Agree on Johnson
I agree with Al on Reed Johson. After seeing that catch he made in Milwaukee against Fielder he can do no wrong in my book.
But Rowand would be a mistake. I watched him in a number of Giants games this last year and he stinks.
wccubfan
LETS WAIT
Until mid -season .. IMO there just are not any good CF freeagents out there right now . Let’s save money , sign Reed Johnson , platoon johnson / fuld and if the Cubs are in the race come mid – season trade for a GOOD centerfielder .
Until system delivers, gotta deal
Cubs give up TOP prospects like Vitters, Casner to SD, Gonzalez to Boston, Ellsbury to Chi def. makes some sense…Love the idea of a guy who can steal 70 bases in Cubs lineup!!
The problem with Fuld/Johnson is they provide neither power nor speed in abundance…They’re great fielders/gamers and I could live with them if we weren’t locked into questionable corner OF’ders, but we are stuck with Sori and Fukudome (for 2 more years).
The Cubs inability to develop decent outfielders is really hurting them maybe some of these minor leaguers will prove to be the exception, but last good one we brought up who made big contribution was….who? Jerome Walton in 1989?
And he along with fellow rookie, Dwight Smith, were not good for the long haul, obviously…C-Patt had his initial spurt but then flopped, etc. You have to go back to Billy Williams for a real quality, Cub signed and developed OF who produced consistently at ML level.
Fuld / Johnson is perfectly acceptable in the context of 2010 being a lost season
Which is my increasingly held belief. Hendry is a lameduck with no more room left on his maxed out credit cards and who is waiting upon a new ownership to implement their grand plan for the franchise. A plan that we know doesn’t include Sweet Lou after 2010…and most likely doesn’t include Genius Jim as well.
Might as well manage the payroll as best as we can in 2010 and get things geared up for a new regime in 2011. To trade the few decent prospects in the system for a misguided belief that this team can contend in 2010 will only serve to further delay the future of this franchise.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
No way 2010 is a lost season
I am fine beginning the year with a Reed/Fuld platoon mainly because the CF options that are currently available aren’t that appealing. Begin the year with the platoon, if the platoon fails and we are in contention then we can make a move. If we are out of contention and this team is every bit as bad as you believe they will be, it likely wont be because of the CF platoon.
One position in the field doth not a team make.
If 2010 is, indeed, a lost season, the Fuld/Johnson platoon in CF won’t be the entire reason for it. Pitching, hitting, and errors are also a part of baseball, and when the pitching and hitting are good, and the number of errors are down, the team is more likely to succeed. If not, then you likely have a repeat of 2006, or a team that is only marginally better than the 2006 debacle.
The above is part of the game, and it always has been. As such, please don’t lecture us about the basics of baseball.
Bound for New York City: January 6-9! Can't wait!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 27, 2009 11:35 PM CST up reply actions
3 way deal
yeah im pretty sure boston wouldnt oppose to trading jacoby and a few prospects for adrian gonzalez. Man what an epic lineup that would be with a real speed threat leading off, followed by some power (hopefully?).
I don't mean this sarcastically at all...
But I don’t really get why everyone is so high on Ellsbury. He’s ok but not great offensively save perhaps for SBs (which are ok, but usually over-rated). And he sucks defensively.
What am I missing here? Is it just the Boston effect whereby everyone adds talent points because of the jersey?
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 27, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
When I posted that the Cubs optimistic offseason had them going for Ellsbury
I was candid about believing his actual value wouldn’t be as high as his perceived value. That said, he does offer a lot of things we want/need – LH bat, youth, speed, cheap. From there, you hope his defense is more like his 2008 than his 09. Crisp also had a bad year in Boston, and has been good ever since. I wonder if UZR has trouble with the Boston park, or if the Monster comes into play and skews things, or what.
If Ellsbury can post a .360 OBP, can play slightly above average CF, and add some speed to the team, all for low salary, then he fits really well.
I think it’s also worth reviewing all of the different CF options – once you get the small top tier, everyone starts to look very similar, but with Ellsbury near the top of that tier.
There are scenarios in which acquiring Ellsbury would not be good to me, but I think I have less questions about Ellsbury than I do about Vitters, and would trade Vitters and Barney for him.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Why is Ellsbury an interesting player?
Several reasons – first being speed. I know the sabremetrics crowd doesn’t place much value on it, but speed still has value in the actual playing of the game besides beating out hits to increase OBP. As an example, look at the way Castillo and Pierre (both players with real limits in ability) upset the Cubs pitchers when they got on base in the 2003 NLCS. No one now on the Cubs roster can cause that kind of upset. In addition, having some speed in the lineup can improve consistency by giving a team the ability to scratch out a run or two when hitters are struggling – part of the playoff downfall of the 2007 and 2008 teams. Plus Ellsbury seems to be a pretty disciplined base stealer – his CS percentage is pretty low.
The other thing about Ellsbury is that his upside is not yet defined. He is 26, with only 2 full seasons of MLB play. In 2009, he improved his OBP and slugging percentages each by about 20 points over 2008, and as a result his OPS went up 40 points. It seems reasonable to expect some continued improvement as he establishes himself, especially in his OBP as he matures. And his splits have been pretty even – his OBP against LHP is actually a little higher. Regarding fielding, 2009 was his first full year in CF; he should show improvement in getting to balls as he learns the position, although his arm probably is what it is.
And he hits triples!
The Cubs could definitely do worse in CF.
side note:
Fuld’s speed is actually above average. Injuries and age have sapped his speed a bit, but he has solid speed.
He is also a VERY smart runner
which on the Cubs especially is not to be taken lightly.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 27, 2009 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
Cubs should contend in '10
Because it’s such a balanced (weak) division unless St Loo resigns Holliday (still a chance since no one’s overwhelming him with $$). and then their pitching is still questionable (losing Pinero will hurt and their pen is as shaky as ours).
No matter what happens in CF
We have enough—just—to hang in there around .500 and then pounce if there is a big name to be had at trade deadline, pitcher or everyday player. We’re not even close to Philly’s power-laden lineup. They’re the NL’s only true powerhouse right now, with LA suffering budget/ownership woes and Cardinals poised to lose 3 significant players (Holliday, DeRosa, Pinero).
Will be wonderful when—IF—farm system ever kicks in and gives us more options!! I don’t see it in ’10, maybe ’11 or ’12 at latest.
the Holliday situation is lose-lose for St. Louis
They need him desperately behind Pujols, but if they resign him, their budget will be constrainted heavily if they want to resign Albert after next season
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
It pains me to say this
but I would NOT want to go into the season relying on Fuld ( or Johnson) as part of platoon CF. Fuld is a terrific player for the bench especially for defensive replacement in the late innings. If a "regular’ outfielder gets injured Fuld is the first guy I would want to replace him but I would not start the season with him in CF. Believe it or not Fuld is not even certain to be on the 25 man roster let alone a semi- starter. I flat out love the guy but he is sort of like Griffey with no power. His all out style of play is amazing but it does lead to injuries. Johnson is also a significant injury risk. So one of them goes down and now Colvin is your other CF ? A MLB team that wants to contend can not have them as an CF platoon unless I suppose you had huge power at nearly ever other position which the Cubs do not.
Hendry has been pretty good on occasion thinking outside the box and I hope he can do something here. How bout leaving Dome in CF and going for Cody Ross ? Anyway I am hoping there is something between Fuld/Johnson and
Marlon Byrd.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 27, 2009 2:17 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Please, no.
The guy is an egotist.
Bound for New York City: January 6-9! Can't wait!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 27, 2009 11:22 PM CST up reply actions
I don't get that impression.
Damon is an idiot and I mean that in a good way more or less. He is a goofball but he takes his playing very seriously. I would argue he probably should have been the WS MVP this year. The thing I will remember about him is that when I went to the New York Sports Writers awards banquet last year( the one where they give out Cy Young, MVP ROY etc.) Damon was one of a couple of folks who won awards but could not make it so they sent a video. Damon’s video was typical Damon, it made no particular sense and he looked kind of stupid. I am thinking this he had a lot of time to PREPARE for but still the same Damon. I would not want him on the team due to major fielding liabilities but I consider him a terrific guy for a clubhouse and not in any way an egoist or egotist.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 28, 2009 12:19 AM CST up reply actions
You're right.
Lots of Red Sox fans near me, so I heard a lot of remarks along those lines about him after he went to the Yankees.
Bound for New York City: January 6-9! Can't wait!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 28, 2009 7:59 AM CST up reply actions
Geez...
If you can’t even get Jessica to warm to this, maybe it’s time to accept that this is really just a bad idea.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 27, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
well put
rec;d
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Agreed
I’m with Jessica. I know Dome plays a better RF than CF but it would be easier to trade for a corner guy than a CF. Re-sign Reed and platoon him with Dome in CF and then explore some trade options for RF.
You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. ~Jim Bouton, Ball Four, 1970
Note to Al
If you were going to propose the Johnson/Fuld platoon couldn’t you at least have posted a picture of Sam too ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
Here ya go....
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 27, 2009 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Right just the one I wanted NOT
but if you are going to post that , I will post this.
http://www.theheckler.com/news/templates/?z=1&a=3054
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 27, 2009 5:52 PM CST up reply actions
I think you can find it around
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 27, 2009 6:22 PM CST up reply actions
One AP photo per post.
Fuld’s already on the team. RJ, I want back.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
i disagree:
I believe a Fuld/Johnson platoon would provide…above-average defense.
this has been beat to death: 1) RJ is very poor defender at CF and 2) Fuld’s defense at CF is probably average
3) Even assuming Fuld is an above average defender, he’d have to be one of the best defenders in the game for anyone to qualify the platoon’s defense as ‘above average’
If Fuld is average, who the F((*^%% is above average ?
Also please give info on why RJ would be considered a “poor defender” ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 27, 2009 7:15 PM CST up reply actions
playing a devil's advocate position
I do think Fuld’s defense is above average, but Andronicus is right – for it to balance out would require Reed to really become average, or for Fuld to become elite. That said, one concern that can be asked about Fuld is this – he’s lost speed and range due to injuries and age. If that process accelerates, he essentially becomes Reed Johnson defensively. It’s not impossible to suggest that something may happen to cause Sam to lose some range during 2010. That said, I still would take Fuld (and I imagine some folks will pitch a fit over this) over someone like … Brett Gardner, who gets good defensive metrics, because Gardner has poor arm strength and has to cheat defensively.
I would not expect a noticeable decline in Fuld's speed in the near term
unless of course he is injured. His biggest problem was a surgery he had I believe in 07. He was consistently rated as the Cubs top defensive player in the minors and top or 2nd in throwing and that was at the start of last season. At 28 he should be pretty much at peak level. Now I would imagine a decline after 30 perhaps but short of an injury (which given the way he plays is certainly a concern) I think it is just wrong to assume he is going to decline in 2010. Fuld is simply an excellent well above average defensive player. I have no problem going after his lack of power or questioning if he can stand up to full season of MLB hitting but I really take umbrage at attacks on his fielding.
The 2nd part which you or Andronicus can answer is why would Johnson be considered below average defensively ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 27, 2009 7:37 PM CST up reply actions
More data
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsre02.shtml
The stats say that Johnson has consistently gotten to fewer balls that the NL average CF, even with spectacular individual catches. His best defensive position has been LF, but most of the data there is from his younger days in Toronto. He is still hard enough on LHP to earn some outfield time with his bat, but with Soriano coming off knee surgery, that OF time would be better in RF.
I've mentioned this before but I guess no one was interested...
How about inquiring about Cody Ross from the Marlins? They’re always looking to shed payroll and pick up some young prospects and Ross had a pretty decent year last year and has pretty good power for a CF. He would be great to plug in to the second half of the lineup and you would still give solid production out of him. Plus he’s only 28(?) so he could potentially hold down CF until Brett Jackson is ready in another year or two (or three). My previous post with his stats and whatnot is here.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on Dec 27, 2009 8:36 PM CST reply actions
He wouldn't be a bad pickup.
His defense is hard to pin down, but probably a little below average. He hits significantly better against Lefties, so he’s very similar to Johnson (Johnson has a better OBP while Ross has a slightly better OPS+). And Ross has pretty good power, as you mentioned. It’s hard to tell whose a better fielder, but Johnson is probably more consistent at being mediocre. (Ross has more extremes)
Anyway, Ross is certainly a viable option, but 1)He’d probably have to platoon, and 2)It isn’t clear that he’s an obviously superior option to Johnson or a handful of other options.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 27, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions
Well I am in favor of it
Said so in my post but I think he might be better suited to RF with Dome staying in CF.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 27, 2009 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
There are worse options than Ross
but his L/R splits and defense just don’t make me want to give up trade pieces for him rather than just sign Marlon Byrd.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
The main thing about Ross is he has pop in his bat.
It would be nice to have some. Of course terrible BB/K ratio so he might feel right at home.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 28, 2009 8:31 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah -
If the Marlins were giving him away – he brings other options to the table and you definitely consider him. In the end, I like Byrd’s nice #s v. RHP enough to make it hard to trade players instead for Ross.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
I like the Fuld idea
Despite what delusions Pinella and Hendry might have that Theriot is a natural leadoff hitter he is not. Fuld could be. It’s a big “if”, but I’m willing to risk it because Fuld demonstrated he understands what the job of the leadoff hitter should be – see a lot of pitches, get on base any way possible, be active on the bases.
As far as Pie, I know that he redeemed himself statistically last year but I think he is still Corey Patterson part II. He will have statistical up years and down years, but I think he will always be the same type of player – one that misses a lot of pitches. This is not to say he isn’t valuable, but to me he accentuates some of the deficiencies of our current lineup.
Fukudome should be the leadoff man.
Fuld does have OBP skills, but I’d rather see Fukudome there.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
From your keyboard...
to Lou’s ears…er, eyes.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 27, 2009 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
Trading away key prospects isn't going to happen
If Jim Hendry is to have a future in Chicago beyond 2010 then a LOT is riding on the continued development of Starlin Castro, Josh Vitters, Andrew Cashner and some of these other names being mentioned within the system. There is no damned way in hell Hendry is going to be so arrogant as to tear into that core of young talent to engineer a trade for a veteran when he had better know damned well already that his 2010 Cubs are a flawed and doubtful legitimately playoff bound ballclub. You can label me Debbie Downer all you want folks, but surely Hendry understands that his future rests on the aforementioned young names saving his bacon to meaningful degree.
This is a lot of silliness concerning Jacob Ellsbury. If Ellsbury goes anywhere, then it will be in a direct deal or three way deal for Adrian Gonzalez. And if I’m San Diego then I am far more intrigued with the blue chip talent that Boston can throw in a trade versus a risk-taking venture in Josh Vitters as the centerpiece. Also, Clay Buccholz and Kelly rate higher at this stage then the hoped for progression of Andrew Cashner and Jay Jackson.
Boston is going to make moves to WIN NOW. Ellsbury may be moved, but it will be in the context of achieving that WIN NOW focus. I’ll ban myself from this board permanently if Theo Epstein were to lose his mind and trade Ellsbury for Cub system prospects. You can chisel that in granite and add it to your taglines too.
Likely solutions for centerfield are still Marlon Friggin Byrd and RIck Ankiel. Either that or some name that none of us can think of right now but who will still not be something wondrous to pee pants over. Hendry probably waits a few weeks to see who doesn’t get offered arbitration, then pulls off his centerfield deal.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
?????
I thought you were convince Hendry was a goner if the Cubs don’t produce in 2010. Not like Vitters, Castro etc are going to be starting in 2010. I mean if Hendry is NOT willing to trade all of them to WIN NOW could it possibly be because he wants the club to be good in the long term and does not want to trade away all the good young players ?
FYI I don’t see the Elsbury trade either but I believe the Cubs were to be the THIRD party so it would be the Padres not the Red Sox who would in theory be trading for Cubs prospects.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 27, 2009 10:33 PM CST up reply actions
Things we know my friend...
A. Hendry is a lameduck of sorts until Ricketts unfolds his strategic master plan
B. Hendry has already maxed out his credit cards in terms of salary, so any move is going ot have to be mostly salary neutral
C. Hendry’s hope to maintain his job after 2010 is for the current core of players to have a successful season and not the trainwreck I largely envision at this point
D. Hendry has taken a lot of heat for the lack of production from the minor league system he has played a hand in dating back to 1996 and absolutely NEEDS for key prospects to deliver at this point, if for no other reason than his extreme addiction to free agency has been cut off by Tom Ricketts
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
I didn't know a couple of those things.
Can you cite references?
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 27, 2009 11:51 PM CST up reply actions
Who's Jacob Ellsbury?
I wonder if he’s friends with Brad Clark, Grad Sizemore, or And Sonnanstine.
"I have the time and hatred but not the knowledge." ~Madison Cub Fan (Aug. 25, 2009)
Who the hell cares with the ticky tack name crap
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
You're forgetting Clay Buccholz.
Bound for New York City: January 6-9! Can't wait!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 27, 2009 11:59 PM CST up reply actions
And Red Johnson, Derek Lee, And Pettite, or Ro Oswalt.
Bound for New York City: January 6-9! Can't wait!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 28, 2009 12:03 AM CST up reply actions
...
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 27, 2009 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
Without reading all the comments in the post...
I am also leaning towards a Fuld/Johnson platoon in center (for the exact reasons stated by Al, with whom I agree). The only thing I would do different than Al is look into signing Ryan Church as the 5th outfielder (as has been mentioned before). He can play all three OF spots, bat a little lower in the lineup to get a lefty in there once in a while, and he shouldn’t cost too much. Maybe more than you would like for a backup, but he could end up winning a full time job due to injuries or struggles from others. I like him as a quality defender and an extra LH bat.
Brainstorming conceivable options, some perhaps far fetched
I insist that the acquisition absolutely MUST bat lefty, but that put aside here goes…
Marlon Byrd
Rick Ankiel
Xavier Nady – to play RF
Luke Scott – to play RF
David DeJesus – I have no idea whether he can be acquired
Scott Podsednik – assuming the Cubs transfer to the AL in 2010
Johnny Damon – won’t happen, but add him to the list regardless
Gary Matthews Jr – Angels would have to send a shitload of salary this way, either that or take Carlos Silva
Rajai Davis – in deference to DGU’s extreme fascination with a player Beane doesn’t want to trade
Ryan Sweeney
Ryan Church
Randy Winn
Fred Lewis
Aaron Rowand — but only if salary swap could happen somehow
Ryan Spilboroughs
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Yeah, we tried going left-handed last year.
That didn’t really get us anywhere.
Miles: disaster.
Some former RFer: disaster.
And some of the other pickups before last year:
Gregg: don’t get me started. He ruined my 5-0 personal record at Cubs games last August.
Heilman: inconsistent.
Bound for New York City: January 6-9! Can't wait!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 27, 2009 11:26 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure why you think Davis isn't tradeable
With Beane now having Coco Crisp as well as Davis, Sweeney, Buck, and S. Hairston, there’s at least one CF to trade by the bay. I think I probably prefer Sweeney to Davis, too, but Davis would add plus baserunning and was connected to the Cubs by rumor last year.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
Reacting to what Phil Rogers babbled on about in his Sunday Tribune column
Suffice to say Billy Beane views his outfield picture as Davis, Sweeney, the hotshot prospect acquired via Toronto from Philly, and Hairston serving as sub. Travis Buck? You can have him.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Meant to add Coco Crisp in that mix
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Ok
I’ll take Travis Buck. Anyone else available in the after-Christmas clearance bin?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
The Cubs have asked about Rajai Davis before.
It could happen.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Resolution of where Adrian Beltre plays in 2010 will probably open up outfielder movement
If Boston lands Beltre, then that means Kevin Youklis sticks at 1st and the Red Sox are done trying to get Adrian Gonzalez via trade with San Diego.
If Beltre signs with St. Louis then that probably ends their pursuit of Matt Holliday, which means Holliday is left looking for employment and where Boston then maybe, maybe, maybe enters the picture.
If Beltre re-signs with Seattle or signs with San Francisco the Boston may get more charged up to acquire Gonzalez…or a top flight catcher which enables them to move Vic Martinez to 1st base fulltime.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Curious question: where would Youkilis go in that?
I’m not sure he would be willing to be a backup.
Where do those of us here at BCB see Adrian Gonzalez ending up? I’m certain he won’t be with San Diego next year.
Bound for New York City: January 6-9! Can't wait!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 27, 2009 11:28 PM CST up reply actions
This actually makes a lot of sense.
I’d give my third testicle (and would be willing to see Dome continue on in center) to have Holliday in LF. So unlikely, so warm and fuzzy sounding.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 27, 2009 11:55 PM CST up reply actions
I don't even know what i'm talking about right now.
In this dream world, Soriano is a sandwich, and i ate him.
I smoked myself retarded tonight.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 28, 2009 12:00 AM CST up reply actions
Well...
you could put him in RF and keep Dome in CF and Soriano in LF. Not exactly steller defensively, but it would have some pop to it.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 28, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
OMG.
So unlikely, so warm and fuzzy sounding.
What exactly are you smoking? I think I’ll pass on it.
Bound for New York City: January 6-9! Can't wait!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 28, 2009 12:14 AM CST up reply actions
Clarification:
Meant this as a comment about your word choice, not what you said in your comment.
Didn’t want you to think otherwise.
Bound for New York City: January 6-9! Can't wait!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 28, 2009 12:17 AM CST up reply actions
Meth, mostly.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Dec 28, 2009 9:11 AM CST up reply actions
One main complaint I have
(and I didn’t read through all of the comments as) but you make a case for Reed Johnson who is 33 yet you cite one of the reasons not to go with Byrd is that he’s going to be 33 next year.
I think the important number is salary
Most people here assume Johnson could be signed for one year in the 2-3 million range whereas Byrd is more like two years
at 10 million and that makes one extra critical. I do want to point out that if the Cubs REALLY wanted Johnson they could have offered him arbitration.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 28, 2009 8:25 AM CST up reply actions
Do you mean
2/20 or 2/10?
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
2/10
I am sure he will want more. I doubt he would get much more.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 28, 2009 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
The funniest thing in the world to me this morning is....
When you look up Marlon Byrd on Baseball-reference.com, the #1 most similar player to him in baseball history is… drumroll… Reed Johnson. Ha!
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Dec 28, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
that is uncanny
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
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