SI.com - The Hall of Fame case for Blyleven

Pretty interesting case for Bert Blyleven to be in the HOF...

over 2 years ago Endrick 15 comments 0 recs |

Comments

Yes.

And Bert’s a great guy.

When I shot stuff for Fox Sports North (and MSC before that) Bert was always a good-natured, even pranksterish sort. And he was always willing to talk about details of the game, even with some camera guy he didn’t really know other than by seeing him regularly under a Betacam.

Great pitcher, good guy, class act – put the guy in the Hall already.

by MN exile on Dec 28, 2009 9:02 AM CST reply actions

You don't have to convince me...

… Blyleven should have been in years ago.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Dec 28, 2009 9:34 AM CST reply actions

Criminal that Blyleven isn't already in

2 World Series Championships where he was huge part of the team, 284 wins, 3700 strikeouts and a mind boggling 60 shutouts to go along with the best curveball the game has seen since the heyday of Sandy Koufax.

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Dec 28, 2009 10:20 AM CST reply actions

287 wins.

But who’s counting. You’re right. I hope he makes it this year. The strikeouts and the shutouts are the most impressive thing. His K’s are still fifth all-time, and only two pitchers of his generation — Nolan Ryan and Tom Seaver — threw more shutouts, and only ONE more (61 each).

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Dec 28, 2009 10:31 AM CST up reply actions

Speaking of Ryan, OT and painful:

MLB Network was running the entire 1969 World Series yesterday. I watched Game 3 where Nolan Ryan got the save, going 2-1/3 innings. He was impressive as hell in that game. Insert sigh here.

"I have the time and hatred but not the knowledge." ~Madison Cub Fan (Aug. 25, 2009)

by Goodie1969 on Dec 28, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions

i agree 100%

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 28, 2009 9:03 PM CST up reply actions

FWIW

Jon Heyman got taken to task on Twitter for NOT voting for Blyleven. To his credit, he did respond to his critics (though not particularly convincingly). I would agree with what Al and others have said here – Bert should be in.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Dec 28, 2009 11:11 AM CST reply actions

What was his excuse?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Dec 28, 2009 11:56 AM CST up reply actions

It appears that he simply thinks...

…Morris had a greater impact than Blyleven. Here’s one of his tweets in response:

morris greater impact imo. also higher WP, more Cy votes, 5-2 in AS games, 3 20-win seasons, ace of 3 title teams

He doesn’t ignore career stats but maintains that he goes more by “impact.” His critics point out that it’s not Blyleven’s fault that he pitched for relatively lesser teams.

Here’s Heyman’s Twitter page if you (or anyone) wants to look through his various responses.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Dec 28, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions

Wow.

I like Heyman, but he is way off base here.

Morris was the ace of three title teams? So what? Blyleven was a significant contributor to two. And I’d quibble with Heyman’s characterization of Morris as the “ace” of the 1993 Blue Jays — he went 7-12, 6.19 that year and had an 8.44 ERA in the 1993 World Series.

Wins and losses in the All-Star Game? Really? That’s a criterion? Ridiculous.

And Heyman ought to know better than to cite winning percentage as a criterion for a HoF pitcher.

Frankly, Jack Morris isn’t even close to being a Hall of Famer. Career ERA half a run higher than Blyleven, half as many shutouts, 1300 fewer strikeouts.

Morris was barely above league average in ERA+ for his entire career — 105. Blyleven was at 118 — exactly the same as Tom Glavine, who everyone says is a no-brainer HoFer, and I would agree.

Finally, Blyleven’s top 10 most comparable pitchers from baseball-reference:

1. Don Sutton (914) *
   2. Gaylord Perry (909) *
   3. Fergie Jenkins (890) *
   4. Tommy John (889)
   5. Robin Roberts (876) *
   6. Tom Seaver (864) *
   7. Jim Kaat (854)
   8. Early Wynn (844) *
   9. Phil Niekro (844) *
  10. Steve Carlton (840) *

That’s eight Hall of Famers, and it should really be all ten. For Morris:

1. Dennis Martinez (903)
   2. Jamie Moyer (891)
   3. Bob Gibson (885) *
   4. Luis Tiant (873)
   5. Red Ruffing (861) *
   6. Chuck Finley (859)
   7. Amos Rusie (859) *
   8. Burleigh Grimes (855) *
   9. Bob Feller (855) *
  10. Jim Bunning (854) *

Five Hall of Famers… and Jamie Moyer and Chuck Finley. And not nearly the class of HoFers that Blyleven is comparable to.

Really, Jack Morris doesn’t even belong in this conversation.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Dec 28, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions

Overlap in Careers

There was a ton of overlap in the careers of Morris and Blyleven, so you can compare their statistics very fairly.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Dec 28, 2009 2:47 PM CST up reply actions

Exactly.

Blyleven was superior in every way, except winning percentage, and a lot of that is due to the teams he played for.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Dec 28, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions

Morris, like Kirk Gibson

will be living legends due to a few amazing games (kinda like how we discussed the human highlight reel vs better range).

Gibson and Billy Buck had a lot of similarities, but one HR and one error changed everything in how they are remembered.

Morris pitched some amazing games in the WS and people forget all else because of that alone.

Not taking anything away from Morris or Gibson who deserve respect and recognition for these games, but Bert was quieter and more consistant, and likely would have been in years ago had he tooted his own horn so to speak.

I truly hope this year is Bly, Smitty and Hawk (with or without anyone else doesnt matter IMHO)

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 28, 2009 9:10 PM CST up reply actions

Blyleven is screwed until he comes up on the Veterans Committee ballot

And Blyleven should go down as the first modern era player that the VC adds to the Hall of Fame. I’ve heard lots of HOFers from Steve Carlton to Nolan Ryan to Tom Seaver to Goose Gossage indicate what a joke it is that Blyleven is out of the Hall. Don Sutton even went so far as to say Blyleven should be in the Hall before him and his 328 career victories.

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Dec 28, 2009 5:33 PM CST reply actions

Bad Timing

I’ve always felt that had he not been injured during his Pirates and early Indians tenure, he’d have made it easily into the hall. Considering that he turned it around and pitched at high level into his late 30s, he probably would have easily gained another 15-20 wins during that period.

Al’s right – All you have to do is look at his comparables -8 out of 10 are HOF’ers.

Eliminate that pesky Dominatrix in one easy step. Step 1: Tell her you're a Cubs fan!

by TMOX on Dec 30, 2009 11:46 AM CST reply actions